HRW slams Serbia over Albanian rights

Serbia never cared about Albanians, and this is why people from the Presevo valley need to be allowed to have a referendum to decide about their future.

Internationally community is begginig to realise that with Serbs at government none is safe or respected (apart from Serbs themselves), and this why ex-YU had to dissolve and 7 new countries formed.

HRW & AI are doing a great job at alarming the world about criminal state enterprise on minorities in Serbia, but so far this is falling in deaf ears.

ONLY after Vojvodina, Sanjak and Presevo valley get the right to speak about their decision regading their future via referendum, Serbia will gradually beging to get democratic and civilised.

Peter, ZK and the Serbian Camp;
It is impossible to have you even once to condemn the violence and discrimination against minorities within Serbia. You always compare other regions but never answer or face the truth under your noses. It is amazing how you achieve to turn tables on argument and blame others for your discriminatory policies. Furthermore, you seem to forget the near past when you nor anyone wrote against Serbian treatment of other nationalities.

being the most ethnically diverse country in the balkans has only brought us serbs greef. we should all look up to the Albanian's, Slovenia's and Croatian's when implementing reforms. We should ethnically cleanse all minorities from our country and then say that we are a tolerant country with no problems, if you have no minorities to begin with then you dont have any problems. but than again thats what makes our nation so proud. HRW has by far always implmented double standards. I guess when Kosovo declared independence we should've returned the favor by giving them alittle more territory. It seems to me that any action by Serbia is always a wrong one in the eyes of the west.

PRN

Should the Serbs of Northern Kosovo be allowed a referendum to decide on their future based on their poor treatment at the hands of the Albanians in that region too?

(Peter Sudyka, 3 November 2008 15:15)

Dear Peter,

You may be joking. The Serbs throughout Kosovo have, guaranteed with the Constitution of the Republic of Kosovo, MORE rights that any minority in the world can have.

I hope the above satisfies your curiosity.

P.S. Serbs in the North are slowly realising that Kosovo is their state and that they need to coperate with Kosovo state institutions.

PRN

While I condemn Serbian retribution on innocent Albanians after the February declaration of independence, I can't help but ask one thing regarding what you said:

Should the Serbs of Northern Kosovo be allowed a referendum to decide on their future based on their poor treatment at the hands of the Albanians in that region too?

The international community will do nothing about those regions you mentioned. They said Kosovo is the last piece to fall into place regarding dissolution of the former Yugoslavia. Your Albanian nationalism aimed at destroying Serbia would only reignite yet another war.

The KLA killed and expelled many Serbs, Roma and even some Albanians after the war too, you know, it is not only Serbia who should be punished.

No Soros-funded "human rights" organization should be trusted, especially in Eastern Europe and the Balkans. Soros's "NGOs" have been concocting fraud after fraud against the Serbs. HRW whines about Serbia yet says nothing about the plight of Serbs and Roma in KLA-run Kosovo. They should be ignored.

HRW should go to kosovo and croatia to see what they did instead of talking about serbia. and that other guy that's talking about preshovo valley should wake up because the albanians are not a big population there over the Serbs its 53% albanians and 47% Serbs there now, and in vojvodina it is 80% Serbs there in 2008. Serb populations rose.

No Soros-funded "human rights" organization should be trusted, especially in Eastern Europe and the Balkans. Soros's "NGOs" have been concocting fraud after fraud against the Serbs. HRW whines about Serbia yet says nothing about the plight of Serbs and Roma in KLA-run Kosovo. They should be ignored.
(Brian, 3 November 2008 15:00)

My sentiments exactly Brian. Although any such attacks should be rightly condemned, it is strange that Soros funded agencies like HRW and their proxies like Natasha Kandic bash Serbia at every opportunity yet when it comes to on going ethnic cleansing and attacks on Serbs, Roma, Gorani and other minorities in Kosmet, HRW are nowhere to be found.

Meanwhile, their silence on war crimes committed by the Georgian army on Ossetian civilians was deafening.

Dear Peter,
The Serbs throughout Kosovo have, guaranteed with the Constitution of the Republic of Kosovo, MORE rights that any minority in the world can have.

I hope the above satisfies your curiosity.

(PRN, 3 November 2008 16:27)

I agree, what other ethnic group gets armed protection to go shopping, visit relatives or church etc. Brilliant.

Are you for real? So I suppose your definition of 'rights' is the right to have their schools bulldozed, the right to be denied access to medical care in their own hospitals, the right to have their churches destroyed, the right to be attacked in the street for speaking Serbian, the right to have loved ones graves desecrated, the right to be attacked by glass bottles in cemeteries, the right to have their homes burned down.

...and then you wonder why Serbs want nothing to do with your pseudo state.

You're taking the mickey right???

It seems to me that any action by Serbia is always a wrong one in the eyes of the west. (goran, 3 November 2008 14:25)

what are you talking about, Goran? are you talking about the cases and conclusions reported by HRW ... or just in general?

did you ever ask yourself, what it would mean FOR YOU if you WOULD BE member of a minority in Serbia ... and would you agree then, if you (or your family) would have been attacked just for that?

finally, Goran, such attacks have nothing to do with "the eyes of the west" ... these attacks were criminal and directed against citizens of Serbia. that's the point you are missing: not only Serbs are Serbian citizens and there are no first-class citizens, which are allowed to attack citizens they consider to be minor class citizens of Serbia.

I "don't" want to be sarcastic but there have been made good steps forward in interethnic relations.

In the early '90 members of my family had to "sell" their business AND apartment in Serbia for Yugo Koral 55- of course second hand car ;)) the “buyer” was a Serbian policeman ;)))

More or less like many Serbs in Kosova after 1999…

I am so happy that I don’t live in that crazy angle of the world ;)

Lori: "I'd like to remind that after independence declaration, the US embassy, shops etc. were set on fire and Serb officials declared these actions were conform to Serb feelings and therefore somehow reasonable."

I don't think that this holds any reflection on the treatment of internationals in Serbia. There are plenty of Americans, Brits, Italians etc. living in Serbia without any problem at all. Just ask some of the guest contributors on B92.

That always amazed me, because if the US or UK were attacked for 78 days by a coalition of countries, there is no way that they would be so tolerant about the various nationalities living among them.

Serbia is not only dangerous for Albanians. I'd like to remind that after independence declaration, the US embassy, shops etc. were set on fire and Serb officials declared these actions were conform to Serb feelings and therefore somehow reasonable.

Being in BG for the first 5 months this year, I remember anti-Albanian graffiti in two distinct places in the city. But I also remember both of these graffiti constantly being graffittied over by anti-nationalist groups. It became a back and forth tug of war between those who would spray paint something like "Ne EU" or "Stop Sektama" and those who would "block" out the letters. But other than that, I don't remember any Albanian shops being broken into post February 17. The worst victims in these attacks were those around Knez Mihailova (which B92 got on tape and you can see on YouTube with those two girls going "shoe shopping".

As for Vojvodina, it's no secret the influx of Serb refugees and IDPs from Bosnia, Croata, and now Kosovo has affected the balance of multiethnic coexistence there. But like Kosovska Mitrovica, the very idea that Albanians are able to physically live there, rather than being chased out, attests to the notion that Serbs as a whole don't care who you are or where you come from.

maybe in stead of criticizing Serbs go to kosovo and other places in the balkans and see whats going on instead of talking about Serbs because it ain't that bad. but its OK in kosovo for the albanians to do and say what they want to serbs that's a minority there go there then talk.

Serbia is generally ethnically tolerant and has a diverse ethnic composition that tend to live together in harmony. Any violence against these minorities should be condemned and appropriate action taken to ensure everyone knows this behaviour is not acceptable. Most citizen understand this already.

Fortunately no-one was killed and the damage could be repaired. Remember that after terrorist action, "Arab" looking people (Indians included) were being attacked and killed in the UK and US but I don't remember HRW saying anything back then.

Also, it is obvious by some of the comments here by team Albania that their hate for Serbia is strong. They are not interested in regional stability or for the people to reconcile and to live in harmony but for a continuation of violence. Just because Albanians find it difficult to live in harmony with their neighbours they automatically assume others can't.

If I am not mistaken, practically all of the ethnic groups in the former YU lived in relative harmony except the Albanians. It really is sad when all they talk about is ethnic division and further land grabbing rather than reconciliation and tolerance. They really do have a very long way to go.

As for Vojvodina, it's no secret the influx of Serb refugees and IDPs from Bosnia, Croata, and now Kosovo has affected the balance of multiethnic coexistence there. But like Kosovska Mitrovica, the very idea that Albanians are able to physically live there, rather than being chased out, attests to the notion that Serbs as a whole don't care who you are or where you come from.
(Mike, 3 November 2008 17:02)

Maybe some of the Albanian irredentists here be invited to take a trip to Belgrade and Novi Sad and see for themselves how different ethnic groups live in harmony including...... ethnic Albanians.

"Dear Peter,

You may be joking. The Serbs throughout Kosovo have, guaranteed with the Constitution of the Republic of Kosovo, MORE rights that any minority in the world can have.

I hope the above satisfies your curiosity.

P.S. Serbs in the North are slowly realising that Kosovo is their state and that they need to coperate with Kosovo state institutions.
(PRN, 3 November 2008 16:27) "

to prn:

You have to be joking right? First of all, it is you the albans who are a minority in Serbia, not the other way around.

Your temporary puppet uck government has a goal of ethnically clensing the remainder of all Serbs from their homeland. Serbs cannot even go to visit their dead without bottles thrown at them or they have to hear threats all day long.

I don't know where you get your information, but Serbs in north of KiM will never be ruled by the people who were killing them (uck).

Freedom,

I happen to be a direct descendent of those ethnic Germans, or Volkdeutsche, that you speak of. My father, and his familiy before him, were born in Gottschee country, in what is now Slovenia (Kocevje), where a German community had lived for over 600 years. Not one Gottschee remains there today. We went to the ruins of his village two years ago, and barely a stone survives. No signs or markers indicate what was once there. We had to rely on old maps to actually find where my father's house used to stand.

All Gottscheer Germans were either killed or expelled during and immediately after the war by Tito's Partisans and Slovene Home Guards, and the region became a mass killing field for enemy collaborators. Both my father and grandfather can attest to the prejudices they all faced as Germans living in Slovenia after WWI, who were subjected to attempts at either assimilation or expulsion. However, to be fair, my grandfather was in the Yugoslav Royal Army prior to WWII, and until his dying day remembered his Serbian commandant as a good friend of his.

The expulsions you speak of are a result of Communist atrocities, not Serb. Doing a quick check of Wikipedia, I found that over 3000 ethnic Germans still live in Vojvodina. I personally met a few when I was in Novi Sad this past summer. Your constant attempts at making Vojvodina out to be some intolerant den of xenophobes never adds up, and your linking of Communist atrocities specifically to Serbian nationalism has consistently been faulty.

Rolerkoster

I apologize, i wrote out my comment this morning and it was generalized. I didnt spend too much time focusing on my comment and how it would be interpreted. The conclusion that HRW states is by far not the reality that is currently taken place in Serbian cities. Yes, we are not perfect and yes, we do have problems that need to be addressed. But HRW had by far totally blown it out of proportion. When Kosovo declared independence I surely expected more violence than was seen and reported. Not that I would condone such action but those were my expectations. Serbia still has to improve in many areas, but being critized by HRW dosent help. I've lived in Canada, U.S. and Germany and those three power houses have a far worse record when it comes to treatment of their minorities than Serbia. Minority treatment of Serbs in other balkans cities. Hmmm I guess there isnt any! I guess ethnically cleansing serbs from pristina and Sarajevo dosent come under the mindful watch of the HRW. How convenient. I wonder how far my voice in Albania, croatia, Kosovo or Slovenia would carry if I cried minority abuse. Think about that one. It seems to me that the minoroties of Serbia get more attention than any other minority in any other country in the balkans. Definitely not fair to all other minorities.

BR,

What most Serbs fail to argue successfully is the fact that mistreatment of Serbs is rarely, if ever, exposed by Western media. The issue is not that Serbs have never done anything wrong. A war is a war, and things happen, and should always be condemned. However, why is it that atrocities against Serbs in Kosovo, Croatia, and other places is never discussed? Is it because they don't exist? That is not true since there is much evidence that substantiates it. If you're interested, I can direct you to many, many people and places that can educate you a bit more. That is the real issue.

Think logically about how the past has unravelled in the former Yugoslavia. Serbs were the one ethnic group that unfortunately embraced communism the most. Is it because they had nationalistic ambitions? I think not since that is not the way that communism operates. Which of the former Yugoslav republics have most diverse ethnic populations today? They are certainly not Kosovo or Croatia where the Serbian population was much higher in previous decades. Why not? Where did everyone else go? The answer is that Serbs, Gypsies, and other minorities had to find refuge in other places because of their expulsion (i.e. 250,000 Serbs from Krajina, murders against Serbs in Kosovo, etc.).

All we ever hear is how Serbs perpetrate atrocities on others, but what about Serbs who have endured more than anyone in the former Yugoslavia from many fronts over the past century? It's time to expose all truths and be fair when we discuss atrocities. The Serbian government is already doing much more to expose many of these truths and many more will surface in the near future.

One other thing I missed when critiquing your comment Freedom:

Germans were never the ethnic majority of Vojvodina as you claimed. Since the Treaty of Karlovci in 1699, Serbs made up a plurality of communities in Vojvodina due to massive settlements being founded by multple ethnicities. As of the census of 1880, they formed the majority. Now if you want to respond with saying that's because Serbs started a campaign of ethnic cleansing early - knowing they were increasingly subjected to attempts at Magyarization since 1848 - I'm up for a good yarn :)

A little dash of objective history never hurt anyone.

Can this lady and her comrades disclose who opens a wallet for them? Unaware American tax payer, without social security in his country, should know that a "global minded" boss from Washington robs from his pocket to pay this lady. What a lovely speech she gives us about Albanian rights, while he - a proud American - can die but not enter hospital if not in possession of pennies.

Even the blind can see the anti-Serb bias of HRW.

What purpose - aside from a political motive - is there to write a report about something that happened 9 months ago!?

Today, now. . .as my friend Niall points out, Serbs in Kosovo

* cannot get medical supplies
* have their schools bulldozered
* are constantly harassed
* cannot visit their deceased in peace

. . .and these so-called authorities on "human rights" are lamenting broken windows and graffiti in downtown Belgrade?

Do these Western architects of the destruction of the Serb presence in Kosovo have any shame or humility?

Serbia is not only dangerous for Albanians. I'd like to remind that after independence declaration, the US embassy, shops etc. were set on fire and Serb officials declared these actions were conform to Serb feelings and therefore somehow reasonable.
(Lori, 3 November 2008 16:05)

So condeming an entire country is just, Lori....I guess that would make all Cubans criminals due to Castro or all Germans Nazi's due to Hitler?

Let's be a bit more realistic...three rotten eggs do not cause an entire country to be deemed unjust & barbaric.

The only difference between Serbia & your US is that Serbia doesn't stand for anything & the US won't be accountable for anything.

CCCC - Greetings from Beograd.

HRW is a joke!!! Back in 2001, they never reported any abuses by Albanians in Macedonia but were more than happy to report about the tiniest infraction towards Albanians. The same went for 1998 when the UCK was doing all sorts of things but HRW was nowhere to be found except for documenting "Albanian" abuses. This smells rotten!! It smells like another setup and this time it will include the Presevo valley. You watch.... especially if Obama/Biden win. It will be one of their top foreign policy issues!

Is is just me or should the title read "HRW slams Albanians over Serbian rights in Kosovo" isntead of "HRW slams Serbia over Albanian rights". What Hypocrits, just look at how Serbs are treated in Kosovo and then ask why Albanians arent treated any better.

Human Rights Watch is an American NGO and the US is behind the Albanian cause so I have no comment to make on teh report. But I do have questions for Ms.Troszczynska-van Genderen.
1. How come all ex Yugoslav minorities, even though mistreated as you say, are living in Serbia, and there are no Serbs in the neighbourhood (chased out of Croatia and Kosovo)?
How do you comment the fact that the entire NATO is having a problem of containing the Albanian outrage against the Serbs in Kosovo, so that Serbs have to live in ghettos and cannot move around freely (remember the rampage of 2004?, remember the slaughter of serbian children in gorazdevac in 2003 - where was HRW then?) How do you comment the fact that not one of the 2000 crimes against Serbs since the NATO occupation of Kosovo has been resolved?
What is your comment about the fact that K-Albanians were engaged in trafficking human organs of dead Serbs under international scrutiny (Carla del Ponte)?
How do you explain the fact that even Helena Ranta, the Finnish pathologist, in her autobiography explains that even Racak was a OSCE W. Walker's hoax and a pretext to attack Serbia for the Albanian cause?
And questions can go on and on, but with no use since HRW is just one of the tools the US Administration uses for putting pressure on independent governments as well as for setting up 'war preludes' (US pattern goes like this: CNN-HRW-sanctions-direct intervention).

I remember that when England were knocked out of Euro 96 by Germany there were various "reprisal attacks" on language students and other innocent parties, and a German businessman was stabbed to death at a swimming pool in North London. After Portugal knocked us out of the World Cup last time round there were various violent incidents aimed at Portuguese agricultural workers in the east of England, though fortunately no deaths this time. I don't recall the HRW report, but I do hope we were "slammed".

It's not hard to see how the Serbs get paranoid from time to time.

PRN

No doubt the constitution of Serbia protects its minority rights as well, no less than that of Kosovo's, but the reality on the ground is another story, hence I still don't see why if Presevo can get a referendum, why can't Northern Kosovo? Serbia was also offering Kosovo the highest autonomy and maximum rights, was it not?

I am not taking sides here, I just don't see why any side should be discriminated against and the other not.

I sent the following to HRW : To whom it should concern ( incl. Balkans researcher Ms. -van Genderen )

I feel I must protest about your organisation's recent 74 page report entitled 'Hostages of Tension: Intimidation and Harassment of Ethnic Albanians in Serbia after Kosovo's Declaration of Independence'.
This unsubstantiated report is laden with untruths, exaggerations and fabrications.
I really would like to know what the motive was in writing such nonsense. My fear is that it was somehow commissioned for the eyes of the EU 'Elite' as further ammunition against Serbia's efforts to join the EU.
I also sense a distinct Dutch input into this scandalous 'misreporting'.

The sheer hyprocrisy comes to light when one mirrors this report with the mountain of unreported atrocities still being carried out by Albanians and KFOR personnel in Kosovo. In the last eight years I have witnessed and seen the results of thousands of crimes against Serbs and Roma in Kosovo.
I would like to know where 'Human Rights Watch' reporters were during all of this terrorism in Kosovo i Metohija?
Is the truth of any value at all to you people?

All I know is that the 'real' facts will be exposed.

Micheal Breathnach
in Ireland

"The Serbs throughout Kosovo have, guaranteed with the Constitution
of the Republic of Kosovo, MORE rights that any minority in the world can have."
(PRN)

It's one thing to have right on paper and another to have them in real life. How can
you say that serbs have any rights in Kosovo? They can't even leave their homes witout being targeted by albanians. If not for NATO there wouln't be any serbs left alive. Also remember that it's not due to the albanians that serbs have "rights" but because
of the international comunity. I don't see any NATO troops protecting albanians in Vojvodina or Presevo. And if the albanians in these areas don't like it why don't they go to back to where they came, Albania? Because it's not that bad. I'm not saying there is no minority problems in Serbia but it's nothing compared to minority lack of rights in Kosovo.

This is not new in Vojvodina at all, the Serbs have been doing this since 1920!

Look at what they did to the ethnic Germans -- who were largest ethnic group in Vojovodina, they oppressed them, I"m glad that this is finally coming out and being documented more closely!

Good job HRW !!!

azir

First the Northern part of Kosovo should be liberated.

http://tinyurl.com/5w3sjc

"HRW: Protecting minorities key to Kosovo’s future

15 February 2008 | 12:05 | Source: B92

(snip)

The Kosovo government and international agencies should also work to create conditions for the sustainable voluntary return of refugees and displaced persons. To date, fewer than 18,000 of the 250,000 Serbs, Roma and others displaced since June 1999 have returned. Insecurity, the failure to bring to justice those responsible for attacks on minorities, and discrimination in accessing social services provide part of the explanation, the organization said."

http://tinyurl.com/6bt6wf

"HRW asks Thaci to investigate organ trade claims

11 April 2008 | 19:18 | Source: Tanjug

BELGRADE -- The Human Rights Watch (HRW) has asked Kosovo Premier Hashim Thaci to initiate an investigation into the crimes committed against Serb civilians."

http://tinyurl.com/5ahc2l

"Balkans "no longer hotbed of crime"

30 May 2008 | 15:37 | Source: AP, IHT

BRUSSELS -- The Balkans, once known as a hotbed of crime and violence, has become one of the safest areas in Europe, a United Nations report said Thursday.

(snip)

But a recent report by Human Rights Watch said Kosovo in particular faced several challenges, including inadequate police support for investigative prosecutors and an insufficient witness-protection program in cases involving organized crime, war crimes and attacks on minorities.

Human trafficking also remains a serious concern, legal experts in Kosovo said."

To our Albanian friend from USA:
I condemn all intimidation/violence against minorities in Serbia ( so you can't say that Serbs don't ever condemn such behavior...)
On the other hand (considering great ethnic mix, compared to countries formed from former SFRY) I think that members of ethnic minorities are (generally) treated better then in other countries that were part of SFRY.
Also I don't think that such biased organization as HRW should be taken too seriously.

And one more thought: this story (hooliganism, authorities ineffective) is apparently to do with "Kosovo status", while the stoning of Serb ourners in Pristina (hooliganism, authorities ineffective) has been deemed "Society" and disappeared to the archives.

Interesting editorial decision.

HRW? Who's that? Never head of them

Dear commentators,

Johny writes describes "the Serbian syndrome": I have yet to see a Serb facing their wrongdoings without any excuses or pointing fingers at others,and saying we were wrong and we need to fix it."

Now I ask you, dear commentators, to announce me the ethnic group of the Balkans that is not contaminated by "the Serbian syndrome". And I ask you to give some lines of argumentation to support your thesis.

Thanks in advance.

(goran, 3 November 2008 16:37)
thanks for your response, Goran ... with it you really made my day.

and yes, Goran: human rights must be claimed and defended from ALL OF US for each one without any exception. I wish, there would be no Soros foundation or any other organisation needed for that! well then, let's start to fight hatress, as it is spread here, mostly from outside of Serbia. I am sure, your experience could be a great support for that.

ZK said:"Just because Albanians find it difficult to live in harmony with their neighbours they automatically assume others can't."

ZK If I was you, meaning if I was a Serb I wouldn't use that argument. Look at the present. All your neighbors did not want to do anything with Serbia, and cut any tie that connected them to Serbia. Look at Montenegro your own brothers. Even them did not want to do anything with Serbia. Your argument is weak and blaming the Albanians as you always do will not solve Serbia's problems. The Serbs have been doing the same thing for decades, blaming Albanians for their problems, expecting different results. If having bombs fall on your heads, and if having lost control of Kosova has not taught you that this approach is the wrong one, then nothing ever will. We are out of Serbia's reach now. You can talk and blame us all you want that ain't gonna solve anything.

Also we again have the Serbian syndrome. I have yet to see a Serb facing their wrongdoings without any excuses or pointing fingers at others,and saying we were wrong and we need to fix it. Every time there has to be the word Albania, Albanian, Croatia, Croatian as an excuse to why the Serbs are violating human rights. Every time there is a report which denounces Serbia's wrongdoings it always the other people's fault according to Serbs. In their mind Serbia is always absolved and free of guilt.

The police contend that it was not always feasible to take strong action during and following demonstrations, when officers were outnumbered by angry protesters, the NGO added.


Please STOP that ridiculus saying. Back in Spring of 1998 I was among Prishtina students who were protesting against Milosevics regime in Kosova and the killings in Drenica. We were between 250-300 hundred thousand protesters and there were a couple of hundred of Serbian police but still we were beaten up and a tear gas was used to deal with us.

Do not tell me that they couldn't take care of few riots in Serbia.
This is the country who led Yugoslavia and that's why millions of people call it former Serboslavia.

No doubt the constitution of Serbia protects its minority rights as well, no less than that of Kosovo's, but the reality on the ground is another story, hence I still don't see why if Presevo can get a referendum, why can't Northern Kosovo? Serbia was also offering Kosovo the highest autonomy and maximum rights, was it not?

I am not taking sides here, I just don't see why any side should be discriminated against and the other not.
(Peter Sudyka, 3 November 2008 20:11)

Sure they can!! There are many private opinions but the general consensus is: Northern Kosova for Presevo Valley.
Is Serbia willing to accept that? I guess not, thus people will say whatever they want.

Thankyou HRW for exposing Serbia for what it really is.Once again, peace can only be had when ALL minorities under Serb occupation are once and for liberated.This includes Hungarian-Vojodina, Muslim-Sandjak, Preshev Valley and Bulgarians areas and others....

If HRW were to say: “Kosovo’s inadequate justice system has far-reaching consequences. In particular, many of Kosovo’s ongoing human rights problems, particularly ethnically and politically motivated violence such as anti-minority riots in 2004, can be traced back to the failure of the authorities to investigate, arrest and prosecute those committing the abuses.”

If HRW were to slam the US over civil rights violations against prisoners.

If HRW were to question the legality of the Iraq war

In those circumstances, would this be seen as genuine comment and criticism of Serbia instead of provoking this victim mentality? The crazy thing is – from reading these comments most of the Serbs actually agree with the HRW report!

Seriously, what am I missing here?

as BR USA ALTHEWAY wrote already: You always compare other regions but never answer or face the truth under your noses. It is amazing how you achieve to turn tables on argument and blame others for your discriminatory policies.

The sad fact is that many in Serbian police and judicial structures agreed with the anti-ethnic-Albanian violence in Serbia, because many of them worked during the Milosevic era.

Such attacks were reported even by B92. Someone motioned that even the foreign embassies weren’t protected and what you expect to be done for civilians. The argument is true but it shouldn’t justify the actions. To their credit most of the Serbian communities were those incident took place were supportive of the victims and publicly condemned the actions of the few. But the point is that the government agencies are de-facto sponsoring this kind of actions by not persecuting those hooligans. The notion that minorities in Kosova are underrepresented is false. Just form the governance standpoint even though they do not constitute not even 5% of general population they have close to 25% of representation on the government.

There is a heck of a long ways to go in terms of human rights in serbia, and those who claim otherwise are lying. the examples i have personally seen and heard are too numerous to mention here -- they focus on croatians, bosniaks, jews, americans, germans, and many others -- but especially albanians. just reading the posts on this site make this pretty clear, and you do NOT have to read bwtwn the lines.

one of the first times i was in blgd, i walked into a bank with a good frnd who lives there. an older man was shouting things out, while business went on "normally." my frnd later let me know the nice words:

"thank god you didn't understand him. when we walked in, he was screaming about the d--m ustashe (croats). as soon as he saw you (blond) he switched to screaming and ranting about the d--m germans."

no one else was yelling, but no one even tried to stop him. such prejudices are sadly ubiquitous there.

then there has been the ubiquitous nationalist graffiti that -- surprise -- our posters never seem to mention. "arkan" when i first started visiting, then mostly "sesejl." these names are almost exclusively associated with hate, bigotry and genocide. and believe me, they were not being erased, there was no battle of "good v evil." up they went and up they stayed.

and shall we speak of the hate attacks against ms. biserko and co.? they are never-ending, have stepped up of late, and among various insults are always accusing her of being nothing but "croatian" and a "Jew." does this surprise anyone in the know? of course not.

these are all examples and tips of the iceberg. of course there are good people living there, who are not prejudiced or even actively fighting it (like my frnds), but there is so much to battle.

the truth is that there is prejudice in every country, and it exhibits different forms and has different levels of intensity. incl the states of the former YU, incl the US, and everywhere. but in serbia it is high, and sometimes lethal. instead of pretending and denying it, take responsibility, for once!

and thank god for soros and all true human rights groups and advocates. without them the world would be even worse off...

robert-0

ZK BG
If I am not mistaken, practically all of the ethnic groups in the former YU lived in relative harmony except the Albanians. It really is sad when all they talk about is ethnic division and further land grabbing rather than reconciliation and tolerance. They really do have a very long way to go.
(ZK BG, 3 November 2008 16:30

Well Well Well hm Mr ZK please can you tell me haw many friends you got now from former YU //NON
And haw many of them former YU did recognise Republic of Kosova // shall i tell you the answer;
ALL OF THEM
Keep your feet on the ground and listen to advice from a close friend.
There's no point continuing ILLUSION, particularly if this is causing pain to you and your friends.
Have a courage of your convictions.

What is this now, another U.S. puppy?

Let it be known that whatever is not in Serbia's favor, is a puppy of the U.S.

Sure they can!! There are many private opinions but the general consensus is: Northern Kosova for Presevo Valley.
Is Serbia willing to accept that? I guess not, thus people will say whatever they want.
(miri, 3 November 2008 21:51)

Miri, you're funny. First you steal something from me and then you want to trade it back to me for something else.
Hey, they are both Serbian territory so you cannot trade with something which doesn't belong to you.

I don't blame Serbia for not accepting that deal. You would have to be mad.

I don't doubt that there have been attacks against innocent Albanians in Serbia and it should be condemned, and the perpetrators punished.

However much of these events could have been avoided, and racists of whatever nationality given less justification for their deeds if a somewhat different approach to Kosovo had been pursued by the West, although this is no excuse.

Serbia treats its minorities relatively well compared to other countries in the region and even in some cases in Western Europe itself. The fact that it has come so far in nine years is a very good thing, and it is hardly surprising there is still a long way to go, but the fact is that since the wars of the 1990s Serbia has come a longggggg way.

Olli

Here's your answer...There are none.

Serbia never cared about Albanians, and this is why people from the Presevo valley need to be allowed to have a referendum to decide about their future.

Internationally community is begginig to realise that with Serbs at government none is safe or respected (apart from Serbs themselves), and this why ex-YU had to dissolve and 7 new countries formed.

HRW & AI are doing a great job at alarming the world about criminal state enterprise on minorities in Serbia, but so far this is falling in deaf ears.

ONLY after Vojvodina, Sanjak and Presevo valley get the right to speak about their decision regading their future via referendum, Serbia will gradually beging to get democratic and civilised.

being the most ethnically diverse country in the balkans has only brought us serbs greef. we should all look up to the Albanian's, Slovenia's and Croatian's when implementing reforms. We should ethnically cleanse all minorities from our country and then say that we are a tolerant country with no problems, if you have no minorities to begin with then you dont have any problems. but than again thats what makes our nation so proud. HRW has by far always implmented double standards. I guess when Kosovo declared independence we should've returned the favor by giving them alittle more territory. It seems to me that any action by Serbia is always a wrong one in the eyes of the west.

It seems to me that any action by Serbia is always a wrong one in the eyes of the west. (goran, 3 November 2008 14:25)

what are you talking about, Goran? are you talking about the cases and conclusions reported by HRW ... or just in general?

did you ever ask yourself, what it would mean FOR YOU if you WOULD BE member of a minority in Serbia ... and would you agree then, if you (or your family) would have been attacked just for that?

finally, Goran, such attacks have nothing to do with "the eyes of the west" ... these attacks were criminal and directed against citizens of Serbia. that's the point you are missing: not only Serbs are Serbian citizens and there are no first-class citizens, which are allowed to attack citizens they consider to be minor class citizens of Serbia.

PRN

Should the Serbs of Northern Kosovo be allowed a referendum to decide on their future based on their poor treatment at the hands of the Albanians in that region too?

(Peter Sudyka, 3 November 2008 15:15)

Dear Peter,

You may be joking. The Serbs throughout Kosovo have, guaranteed with the Constitution of the Republic of Kosovo, MORE rights that any minority in the world can have.

I hope the above satisfies your curiosity.

P.S. Serbs in the North are slowly realising that Kosovo is their state and that they need to coperate with Kosovo state institutions.

I "don't" want to be sarcastic but there have been made good steps forward in interethnic relations.

In the early '90 members of my family had to "sell" their business AND apartment in Serbia for Yugo Koral 55- of course second hand car ;)) the “buyer” was a Serbian policeman ;)))

More or less like many Serbs in Kosova after 1999…

I am so happy that I don’t live in that crazy angle of the world ;)

Serbia is not only dangerous for Albanians. I'd like to remind that after independence declaration, the US embassy, shops etc. were set on fire and Serb officials declared these actions were conform to Serb feelings and therefore somehow reasonable.

Peter, ZK and the Serbian Camp;
It is impossible to have you even once to condemn the violence and discrimination against minorities within Serbia. You always compare other regions but never answer or face the truth under your noses. It is amazing how you achieve to turn tables on argument and blame others for your discriminatory policies. Furthermore, you seem to forget the near past when you nor anyone wrote against Serbian treatment of other nationalities.

HRW should go to kosovo and croatia to see what they did instead of talking about serbia. and that other guy that's talking about preshovo valley should wake up because the albanians are not a big population there over the Serbs its 53% albanians and 47% Serbs there now, and in vojvodina it is 80% Serbs there in 2008. Serb populations rose.

No Soros-funded "human rights" organization should be trusted, especially in Eastern Europe and the Balkans. Soros's "NGOs" have been concocting fraud after fraud against the Serbs. HRW whines about Serbia yet says nothing about the plight of Serbs and Roma in KLA-run Kosovo. They should be ignored.

PRN

While I condemn Serbian retribution on innocent Albanians after the February declaration of independence, I can't help but ask one thing regarding what you said:

Should the Serbs of Northern Kosovo be allowed a referendum to decide on their future based on their poor treatment at the hands of the Albanians in that region too?

The international community will do nothing about those regions you mentioned. They said Kosovo is the last piece to fall into place regarding dissolution of the former Yugoslavia. Your Albanian nationalism aimed at destroying Serbia would only reignite yet another war.

The KLA killed and expelled many Serbs, Roma and even some Albanians after the war too, you know, it is not only Serbia who should be punished.

This is not new in Vojvodina at all, the Serbs have been doing this since 1920!

Look at what they did to the ethnic Germans -- who were largest ethnic group in Vojovodina, they oppressed them, I"m glad that this is finally coming out and being documented more closely!

Good job HRW !!!

Serbia is generally ethnically tolerant and has a diverse ethnic composition that tend to live together in harmony. Any violence against these minorities should be condemned and appropriate action taken to ensure everyone knows this behaviour is not acceptable. Most citizen understand this already.

Fortunately no-one was killed and the damage could be repaired. Remember that after terrorist action, "Arab" looking people (Indians included) were being attacked and killed in the UK and US but I don't remember HRW saying anything back then.

Also, it is obvious by some of the comments here by team Albania that their hate for Serbia is strong. They are not interested in regional stability or for the people to reconcile and to live in harmony but for a continuation of violence. Just because Albanians find it difficult to live in harmony with their neighbours they automatically assume others can't.

If I am not mistaken, practically all of the ethnic groups in the former YU lived in relative harmony except the Albanians. It really is sad when all they talk about is ethnic division and further land grabbing rather than reconciliation and tolerance. They really do have a very long way to go.

The sad fact is that many in Serbian police and judicial structures agreed with the anti-ethnic-Albanian violence in Serbia, because many of them worked during the Milosevic era.

Lori: "I'd like to remind that after independence declaration, the US embassy, shops etc. were set on fire and Serb officials declared these actions were conform to Serb feelings and therefore somehow reasonable."

I don't think that this holds any reflection on the treatment of internationals in Serbia. There are plenty of Americans, Brits, Italians etc. living in Serbia without any problem at all. Just ask some of the guest contributors on B92.

That always amazed me, because if the US or UK were attacked for 78 days by a coalition of countries, there is no way that they would be so tolerant about the various nationalities living among them.

"Dear Peter,

You may be joking. The Serbs throughout Kosovo have, guaranteed with the Constitution of the Republic of Kosovo, MORE rights that any minority in the world can have.

I hope the above satisfies your curiosity.

P.S. Serbs in the North are slowly realising that Kosovo is their state and that they need to coperate with Kosovo state institutions.
(PRN, 3 November 2008 16:27) "

to prn:

You have to be joking right? First of all, it is you the albans who are a minority in Serbia, not the other way around.

Your temporary puppet uck government has a goal of ethnically clensing the remainder of all Serbs from their homeland. Serbs cannot even go to visit their dead without bottles thrown at them or they have to hear threats all day long.

I don't know where you get your information, but Serbs in north of KiM will never be ruled by the people who were killing them (uck).

No doubt the constitution of Serbia protects its minority rights as well, no less than that of Kosovo's, but the reality on the ground is another story, hence I still don't see why if Presevo can get a referendum, why can't Northern Kosovo? Serbia was also offering Kosovo the highest autonomy and maximum rights, was it not?

I am not taking sides here, I just don't see why any side should be discriminated against and the other not.
(Peter Sudyka, 3 November 2008 20:11)

Sure they can!! There are many private opinions but the general consensus is: Northern Kosova for Presevo Valley.
Is Serbia willing to accept that? I guess not, thus people will say whatever they want.

ZK said:"Just because Albanians find it difficult to live in harmony with their neighbours they automatically assume others can't."

ZK If I was you, meaning if I was a Serb I wouldn't use that argument. Look at the present. All your neighbors did not want to do anything with Serbia, and cut any tie that connected them to Serbia. Look at Montenegro your own brothers. Even them did not want to do anything with Serbia. Your argument is weak and blaming the Albanians as you always do will not solve Serbia's problems. The Serbs have been doing the same thing for decades, blaming Albanians for their problems, expecting different results. If having bombs fall on your heads, and if having lost control of Kosova has not taught you that this approach is the wrong one, then nothing ever will. We are out of Serbia's reach now. You can talk and blame us all you want that ain't gonna solve anything.

Also we again have the Serbian syndrome. I have yet to see a Serb facing their wrongdoings without any excuses or pointing fingers at others,and saying we were wrong and we need to fix it. Every time there has to be the word Albania, Albanian, Croatia, Croatian as an excuse to why the Serbs are violating human rights. Every time there is a report which denounces Serbia's wrongdoings it always the other people's fault according to Serbs. In their mind Serbia is always absolved and free of guilt.

Dear Peter,
The Serbs throughout Kosovo have, guaranteed with the Constitution of the Republic of Kosovo, MORE rights that any minority in the world can have.

I hope the above satisfies your curiosity.

(PRN, 3 November 2008 16:27)

I agree, what other ethnic group gets armed protection to go shopping, visit relatives or church etc. Brilliant.

Are you for real? So I suppose your definition of 'rights' is the right to have their schools bulldozed, the right to be denied access to medical care in their own hospitals, the right to have their churches destroyed, the right to be attacked in the street for speaking Serbian, the right to have loved ones graves desecrated, the right to be attacked by glass bottles in cemeteries, the right to have their homes burned down.

...and then you wonder why Serbs want nothing to do with your pseudo state.

You're taking the mickey right???

As for Vojvodina, it's no secret the influx of Serb refugees and IDPs from Bosnia, Croata, and now Kosovo has affected the balance of multiethnic coexistence there. But like Kosovska Mitrovica, the very idea that Albanians are able to physically live there, rather than being chased out, attests to the notion that Serbs as a whole don't care who you are or where you come from.
(Mike, 3 November 2008 17:02)

Maybe some of the Albanian irredentists here be invited to take a trip to Belgrade and Novi Sad and see for themselves how different ethnic groups live in harmony including...... ethnic Albanians.

(goran, 3 November 2008 16:37)
thanks for your response, Goran ... with it you really made my day.

and yes, Goran: human rights must be claimed and defended from ALL OF US for each one without any exception. I wish, there would be no Soros foundation or any other organisation needed for that! well then, let's start to fight hatress, as it is spread here, mostly from outside of Serbia. I am sure, your experience could be a great support for that.

There is a heck of a long ways to go in terms of human rights in serbia, and those who claim otherwise are lying. the examples i have personally seen and heard are too numerous to mention here -- they focus on croatians, bosniaks, jews, americans, germans, and many others -- but especially albanians. just reading the posts on this site make this pretty clear, and you do NOT have to read bwtwn the lines.

one of the first times i was in blgd, i walked into a bank with a good frnd who lives there. an older man was shouting things out, while business went on "normally." my frnd later let me know the nice words:

"thank god you didn't understand him. when we walked in, he was screaming about the d--m ustashe (croats). as soon as he saw you (blond) he switched to screaming and ranting about the d--m germans."

no one else was yelling, but no one even tried to stop him. such prejudices are sadly ubiquitous there.

then there has been the ubiquitous nationalist graffiti that -- surprise -- our posters never seem to mention. "arkan" when i first started visiting, then mostly "sesejl." these names are almost exclusively associated with hate, bigotry and genocide. and believe me, they were not being erased, there was no battle of "good v evil." up they went and up they stayed.

and shall we speak of the hate attacks against ms. biserko and co.? they are never-ending, have stepped up of late, and among various insults are always accusing her of being nothing but "croatian" and a "Jew." does this surprise anyone in the know? of course not.

these are all examples and tips of the iceberg. of course there are good people living there, who are not prejudiced or even actively fighting it (like my frnds), but there is so much to battle.

the truth is that there is prejudice in every country, and it exhibits different forms and has different levels of intensity. incl the states of the former YU, incl the US, and everywhere. but in serbia it is high, and sometimes lethal. instead of pretending and denying it, take responsibility, for once!

and thank god for soros and all true human rights groups and advocates. without them the world would be even worse off...

robert-0

ZK BG
If I am not mistaken, practically all of the ethnic groups in the former YU lived in relative harmony except the Albanians. It really is sad when all they talk about is ethnic division and further land grabbing rather than reconciliation and tolerance. They really do have a very long way to go.
(ZK BG, 3 November 2008 16:30

Well Well Well hm Mr ZK please can you tell me haw many friends you got now from former YU //NON
And haw many of them former YU did recognise Republic of Kosova // shall i tell you the answer;
ALL OF THEM
Keep your feet on the ground and listen to advice from a close friend.
There's no point continuing ILLUSION, particularly if this is causing pain to you and your friends.
Have a courage of your convictions.

maybe in stead of criticizing Serbs go to kosovo and other places in the balkans and see whats going on instead of talking about Serbs because it ain't that bad. but its OK in kosovo for the albanians to do and say what they want to serbs that's a minority there go there then talk.

Even the blind can see the anti-Serb bias of HRW.

What purpose - aside from a political motive - is there to write a report about something that happened 9 months ago!?

Today, now. . .as my friend Niall points out, Serbs in Kosovo

* cannot get medical supplies
* have their schools bulldozered
* are constantly harassed
* cannot visit their deceased in peace

. . .and these so-called authorities on "human rights" are lamenting broken windows and graffiti in downtown Belgrade?

Do these Western architects of the destruction of the Serb presence in Kosovo have any shame or humility?

Such attacks were reported even by B92. Someone motioned that even the foreign embassies weren’t protected and what you expect to be done for civilians. The argument is true but it shouldn’t justify the actions. To their credit most of the Serbian communities were those incident took place were supportive of the victims and publicly condemned the actions of the few. But the point is that the government agencies are de-facto sponsoring this kind of actions by not persecuting those hooligans. The notion that minorities in Kosova are underrepresented is false. Just form the governance standpoint even though they do not constitute not even 5% of general population they have close to 25% of representation on the government.

Is is just me or should the title read "HRW slams Albanians over Serbian rights in Kosovo" isntead of "HRW slams Serbia over Albanian rights". What Hypocrits, just look at how Serbs are treated in Kosovo and then ask why Albanians arent treated any better.

One other thing I missed when critiquing your comment Freedom:

Germans were never the ethnic majority of Vojvodina as you claimed. Since the Treaty of Karlovci in 1699, Serbs made up a plurality of communities in Vojvodina due to massive settlements being founded by multple ethnicities. As of the census of 1880, they formed the majority. Now if you want to respond with saying that's because Serbs started a campaign of ethnic cleansing early - knowing they were increasingly subjected to attempts at Magyarization since 1848 - I'm up for a good yarn :)

A little dash of objective history never hurt anyone.

HRW? Who's that? Never head of them

Thankyou HRW for exposing Serbia for what it really is.Once again, peace can only be had when ALL minorities under Serb occupation are once and for liberated.This includes Hungarian-Vojodina, Muslim-Sandjak, Preshev Valley and Bulgarians areas and others....

If HRW were to say: “Kosovo’s inadequate justice system has far-reaching consequences. In particular, many of Kosovo’s ongoing human rights problems, particularly ethnically and politically motivated violence such as anti-minority riots in 2004, can be traced back to the failure of the authorities to investigate, arrest and prosecute those committing the abuses.”

If HRW were to slam the US over civil rights violations against prisoners.

If HRW were to question the legality of the Iraq war

In those circumstances, would this be seen as genuine comment and criticism of Serbia instead of provoking this victim mentality? The crazy thing is – from reading these comments most of the Serbs actually agree with the HRW report!

Seriously, what am I missing here?

Rolerkoster

I apologize, i wrote out my comment this morning and it was generalized. I didnt spend too much time focusing on my comment and how it would be interpreted. The conclusion that HRW states is by far not the reality that is currently taken place in Serbian cities. Yes, we are not perfect and yes, we do have problems that need to be addressed. But HRW had by far totally blown it out of proportion. When Kosovo declared independence I surely expected more violence than was seen and reported. Not that I would condone such action but those were my expectations. Serbia still has to improve in many areas, but being critized by HRW dosent help. I've lived in Canada, U.S. and Germany and those three power houses have a far worse record when it comes to treatment of their minorities than Serbia. Minority treatment of Serbs in other balkans cities. Hmmm I guess there isnt any! I guess ethnically cleansing serbs from pristina and Sarajevo dosent come under the mindful watch of the HRW. How convenient. I wonder how far my voice in Albania, croatia, Kosovo or Slovenia would carry if I cried minority abuse. Think about that one. It seems to me that the minoroties of Serbia get more attention than any other minority in any other country in the balkans. Definitely not fair to all other minorities.

No Soros-funded "human rights" organization should be trusted, especially in Eastern Europe and the Balkans. Soros's "NGOs" have been concocting fraud after fraud against the Serbs. HRW whines about Serbia yet says nothing about the plight of Serbs and Roma in KLA-run Kosovo. They should be ignored.
(Brian, 3 November 2008 15:00)

My sentiments exactly Brian. Although any such attacks should be rightly condemned, it is strange that Soros funded agencies like HRW and their proxies like Natasha Kandic bash Serbia at every opportunity yet when it comes to on going ethnic cleansing and attacks on Serbs, Roma, Gorani and other minorities in Kosmet, HRW are nowhere to be found.

Meanwhile, their silence on war crimes committed by the Georgian army on Ossetian civilians was deafening.

Can this lady and her comrades disclose who opens a wallet for them? Unaware American tax payer, without social security in his country, should know that a "global minded" boss from Washington robs from his pocket to pay this lady. What a lovely speech she gives us about Albanian rights, while he - a proud American - can die but not enter hospital if not in possession of pennies.

PRN

No doubt the constitution of Serbia protects its minority rights as well, no less than that of Kosovo's, but the reality on the ground is another story, hence I still don't see why if Presevo can get a referendum, why can't Northern Kosovo? Serbia was also offering Kosovo the highest autonomy and maximum rights, was it not?

I am not taking sides here, I just don't see why any side should be discriminated against and the other not.

http://tinyurl.com/5w3sjc

"HRW: Protecting minorities key to Kosovo’s future

15 February 2008 | 12:05 | Source: B92

(snip)

The Kosovo government and international agencies should also work to create conditions for the sustainable voluntary return of refugees and displaced persons. To date, fewer than 18,000 of the 250,000 Serbs, Roma and others displaced since June 1999 have returned. Insecurity, the failure to bring to justice those responsible for attacks on minorities, and discrimination in accessing social services provide part of the explanation, the organization said."

http://tinyurl.com/6bt6wf

"HRW asks Thaci to investigate organ trade claims

11 April 2008 | 19:18 | Source: Tanjug

BELGRADE -- The Human Rights Watch (HRW) has asked Kosovo Premier Hashim Thaci to initiate an investigation into the crimes committed against Serb civilians."

http://tinyurl.com/5ahc2l

"Balkans "no longer hotbed of crime"

30 May 2008 | 15:37 | Source: AP, IHT

BRUSSELS -- The Balkans, once known as a hotbed of crime and violence, has become one of the safest areas in Europe, a United Nations report said Thursday.

(snip)

But a recent report by Human Rights Watch said Kosovo in particular faced several challenges, including inadequate police support for investigative prosecutors and an insufficient witness-protection program in cases involving organized crime, war crimes and attacks on minorities.

Human trafficking also remains a serious concern, legal experts in Kosovo said."

Freedom,

I happen to be a direct descendent of those ethnic Germans, or Volkdeutsche, that you speak of. My father, and his familiy before him, were born in Gottschee country, in what is now Slovenia (Kocevje), where a German community had lived for over 600 years. Not one Gottschee remains there today. We went to the ruins of his village two years ago, and barely a stone survives. No signs or markers indicate what was once there. We had to rely on old maps to actually find where my father's house used to stand.

All Gottscheer Germans were either killed or expelled during and immediately after the war by Tito's Partisans and Slovene Home Guards, and the region became a mass killing field for enemy collaborators. Both my father and grandfather can attest to the prejudices they all faced as Germans living in Slovenia after WWI, who were subjected to attempts at either assimilation or expulsion. However, to be fair, my grandfather was in the Yugoslav Royal Army prior to WWII, and until his dying day remembered his Serbian commandant as a good friend of his.

The expulsions you speak of are a result of Communist atrocities, not Serb. Doing a quick check of Wikipedia, I found that over 3000 ethnic Germans still live in Vojvodina. I personally met a few when I was in Novi Sad this past summer. Your constant attempts at making Vojvodina out to be some intolerant den of xenophobes never adds up, and your linking of Communist atrocities specifically to Serbian nationalism has consistently been faulty.

Serbia is not only dangerous for Albanians. I'd like to remind that after independence declaration, the US embassy, shops etc. were set on fire and Serb officials declared these actions were conform to Serb feelings and therefore somehow reasonable.
(Lori, 3 November 2008 16:05)

So condeming an entire country is just, Lori....I guess that would make all Cubans criminals due to Castro or all Germans Nazi's due to Hitler?

Let's be a bit more realistic...three rotten eggs do not cause an entire country to be deemed unjust & barbaric.

The only difference between Serbia & your US is that Serbia doesn't stand for anything & the US won't be accountable for anything.

CCCC - Greetings from Beograd.

I remember that when England were knocked out of Euro 96 by Germany there were various "reprisal attacks" on language students and other innocent parties, and a German businessman was stabbed to death at a swimming pool in North London. After Portugal knocked us out of the World Cup last time round there were various violent incidents aimed at Portuguese agricultural workers in the east of England, though fortunately no deaths this time. I don't recall the HRW report, but I do hope we were "slammed".

It's not hard to see how the Serbs get paranoid from time to time.

And one more thought: this story (hooliganism, authorities ineffective) is apparently to do with "Kosovo status", while the stoning of Serb ourners in Pristina (hooliganism, authorities ineffective) has been deemed "Society" and disappeared to the archives.

Interesting editorial decision.

Dear commentators,

Johny writes describes "the Serbian syndrome": I have yet to see a Serb facing their wrongdoings without any excuses or pointing fingers at others,and saying we were wrong and we need to fix it."

Now I ask you, dear commentators, to announce me the ethnic group of the Balkans that is not contaminated by "the Serbian syndrome". And I ask you to give some lines of argumentation to support your thesis.

Thanks in advance.

azir

First the Northern part of Kosovo should be liberated.

Sure they can!! There are many private opinions but the general consensus is: Northern Kosova for Presevo Valley.
Is Serbia willing to accept that? I guess not, thus people will say whatever they want.
(miri, 3 November 2008 21:51)

Miri, you're funny. First you steal something from me and then you want to trade it back to me for something else.
Hey, they are both Serbian territory so you cannot trade with something which doesn't belong to you.

I don't blame Serbia for not accepting that deal. You would have to be mad.

Being in BG for the first 5 months this year, I remember anti-Albanian graffiti in two distinct places in the city. But I also remember both of these graffiti constantly being graffittied over by anti-nationalist groups. It became a back and forth tug of war between those who would spray paint something like "Ne EU" or "Stop Sektama" and those who would "block" out the letters. But other than that, I don't remember any Albanian shops being broken into post February 17. The worst victims in these attacks were those around Knez Mihailova (which B92 got on tape and you can see on YouTube with those two girls going "shoe shopping".

As for Vojvodina, it's no secret the influx of Serb refugees and IDPs from Bosnia, Croata, and now Kosovo has affected the balance of multiethnic coexistence there. But like Kosovska Mitrovica, the very idea that Albanians are able to physically live there, rather than being chased out, attests to the notion that Serbs as a whole don't care who you are or where you come from.

BR,

What most Serbs fail to argue successfully is the fact that mistreatment of Serbs is rarely, if ever, exposed by Western media. The issue is not that Serbs have never done anything wrong. A war is a war, and things happen, and should always be condemned. However, why is it that atrocities against Serbs in Kosovo, Croatia, and other places is never discussed? Is it because they don't exist? That is not true since there is much evidence that substantiates it. If you're interested, I can direct you to many, many people and places that can educate you a bit more. That is the real issue.

Think logically about how the past has unravelled in the former Yugoslavia. Serbs were the one ethnic group that unfortunately embraced communism the most. Is it because they had nationalistic ambitions? I think not since that is not the way that communism operates. Which of the former Yugoslav republics have most diverse ethnic populations today? They are certainly not Kosovo or Croatia where the Serbian population was much higher in previous decades. Why not? Where did everyone else go? The answer is that Serbs, Gypsies, and other minorities had to find refuge in other places because of their expulsion (i.e. 250,000 Serbs from Krajina, murders against Serbs in Kosovo, etc.).

All we ever hear is how Serbs perpetrate atrocities on others, but what about Serbs who have endured more than anyone in the former Yugoslavia from many fronts over the past century? It's time to expose all truths and be fair when we discuss atrocities. The Serbian government is already doing much more to expose many of these truths and many more will surface in the near future.

HRW is a joke!!! Back in 2001, they never reported any abuses by Albanians in Macedonia but were more than happy to report about the tiniest infraction towards Albanians. The same went for 1998 when the UCK was doing all sorts of things but HRW was nowhere to be found except for documenting "Albanian" abuses. This smells rotten!! It smells like another setup and this time it will include the Presevo valley. You watch.... especially if Obama/Biden win. It will be one of their top foreign policy issues!

"The Serbs throughout Kosovo have, guaranteed with the Constitution
of the Republic of Kosovo, MORE rights that any minority in the world can have."
(PRN)

It's one thing to have right on paper and another to have them in real life. How can
you say that serbs have any rights in Kosovo? They can't even leave their homes witout being targeted by albanians. If not for NATO there wouln't be any serbs left alive. Also remember that it's not due to the albanians that serbs have "rights" but because
of the international comunity. I don't see any NATO troops protecting albanians in Vojvodina or Presevo. And if the albanians in these areas don't like it why don't they go to back to where they came, Albania? Because it's not that bad. I'm not saying there is no minority problems in Serbia but it's nothing compared to minority lack of rights in Kosovo.

To our Albanian friend from USA:
I condemn all intimidation/violence against minorities in Serbia ( so you can't say that Serbs don't ever condemn such behavior...)
On the other hand (considering great ethnic mix, compared to countries formed from former SFRY) I think that members of ethnic minorities are (generally) treated better then in other countries that were part of SFRY.
Also I don't think that such biased organization as HRW should be taken too seriously.

Human Rights Watch is an American NGO and the US is behind the Albanian cause so I have no comment to make on teh report. But I do have questions for Ms.Troszczynska-van Genderen.
1. How come all ex Yugoslav minorities, even though mistreated as you say, are living in Serbia, and there are no Serbs in the neighbourhood (chased out of Croatia and Kosovo)?
How do you comment the fact that the entire NATO is having a problem of containing the Albanian outrage against the Serbs in Kosovo, so that Serbs have to live in ghettos and cannot move around freely (remember the rampage of 2004?, remember the slaughter of serbian children in gorazdevac in 2003 - where was HRW then?) How do you comment the fact that not one of the 2000 crimes against Serbs since the NATO occupation of Kosovo has been resolved?
What is your comment about the fact that K-Albanians were engaged in trafficking human organs of dead Serbs under international scrutiny (Carla del Ponte)?
How do you explain the fact that even Helena Ranta, the Finnish pathologist, in her autobiography explains that even Racak was a OSCE W. Walker's hoax and a pretext to attack Serbia for the Albanian cause?
And questions can go on and on, but with no use since HRW is just one of the tools the US Administration uses for putting pressure on independent governments as well as for setting up 'war preludes' (US pattern goes like this: CNN-HRW-sanctions-direct intervention).

Olli

Here's your answer...There are none.

What is this now, another U.S. puppy?

Let it be known that whatever is not in Serbia's favor, is a puppy of the U.S.

I sent the following to HRW : To whom it should concern ( incl. Balkans researcher Ms. -van Genderen )

I feel I must protest about your organisation's recent 74 page report entitled 'Hostages of Tension: Intimidation and Harassment of Ethnic Albanians in Serbia after Kosovo's Declaration of Independence'.
This unsubstantiated report is laden with untruths, exaggerations and fabrications.
I really would like to know what the motive was in writing such nonsense. My fear is that it was somehow commissioned for the eyes of the EU 'Elite' as further ammunition against Serbia's efforts to join the EU.
I also sense a distinct Dutch input into this scandalous 'misreporting'.

The sheer hyprocrisy comes to light when one mirrors this report with the mountain of unreported atrocities still being carried out by Albanians and KFOR personnel in Kosovo. In the last eight years I have witnessed and seen the results of thousands of crimes against Serbs and Roma in Kosovo.
I would like to know where 'Human Rights Watch' reporters were during all of this terrorism in Kosovo i Metohija?
Is the truth of any value at all to you people?

All I know is that the 'real' facts will be exposed.

Micheal Breathnach
in Ireland

The police contend that it was not always feasible to take strong action during and following demonstrations, when officers were outnumbered by angry protesters, the NGO added.


Please STOP that ridiculus saying. Back in Spring of 1998 I was among Prishtina students who were protesting against Milosevics regime in Kosova and the killings in Drenica. We were between 250-300 hundred thousand protesters and there were a couple of hundred of Serbian police but still we were beaten up and a tear gas was used to deal with us.

Do not tell me that they couldn't take care of few riots in Serbia.
This is the country who led Yugoslavia and that's why millions of people call it former Serboslavia.

as BR USA ALTHEWAY wrote already: You always compare other regions but never answer or face the truth under your noses. It is amazing how you achieve to turn tables on argument and blame others for your discriminatory policies.

I don't doubt that there have been attacks against innocent Albanians in Serbia and it should be condemned, and the perpetrators punished.

However much of these events could have been avoided, and racists of whatever nationality given less justification for their deeds if a somewhat different approach to Kosovo had been pursued by the West, although this is no excuse.

Serbia treats its minorities relatively well compared to other countries in the region and even in some cases in Western Europe itself. The fact that it has come so far in nine years is a very good thing, and it is hardly surprising there is still a long way to go, but the fact is that since the wars of the 1990s Serbia has come a longggggg way.