U.S. supports Macedonia negotiations

I find it very amusing B92 still refers to the current US Administration's policy regarding FYROm even though George Bush has less than 1 week left in the White House.

The following US House Resolution sponsored by the next President of the United States will no doubt bring some logic and common sense to this festering dispute.

MENENDEZ, OBAMA AND SNOWE TAKE TO U.S. SENATE EFFORT TO END FYROM HOSTILE AND IRREDENTIST PROPAGANDA AGAINST GREECE
03 August, 2007

Legislation to stop state-sponsored propaganda by FYROM (Former Yugoslav Republic of Macedonia), which is potentially dangerous for Greece, was introduced in the U.S. Senate today by Senators Bob Menendez (D-NJ) and Olympia Snowe (R-ME), along with Presidential candidate and Chairman of the European Affairs Subcommittee of the Senate Foreign Relations Committee, Senator Barack Obama (D-IL).

More than 72 Members of Congress and climbing are sponsoring similar legislation (HR 356) in the House of Representatives.

The Resolution (S.Res. 300) points to a television report showing students in a FYROM state-run school being taught that parts of Greece, including Greek Macedonia, are rightfully parts of FYROM. The legislation also points to various recently-published textbooks which contain maps of ‘Greater Macedonia’ extending many miles into Greece and Bulgaria. The Resolution points out that FYROM propaganda, contrary to the U. N. Interim Accord, instills hostility and a rationale of irredentism in portions of the population of FYROM toward Greece and the history of Greece.

The legislation urges FYROM to adhere to the U.N. brokered Interim Agreement, which directs the parties to “promptly take effective measures to prohibit hostile activities or propaganda by state-controlled agencies and to discourage acts by private entities likely to incite violence, hatred or hostility” and review the content of textbooks, maps, and teaching aids to ensure that such tools are stating accurate information. The bill also urges FYROM to work with Greece within the U.N. framework process to achieve longstanding United States and United Nations policy goals by reaching a mutually acceptable official name for FYROM.

Macedonia is one and Greek.

@2 Peter.
I wish you knew what you are talking about.
Want to see some answers?
Lets see now:
"You took part of our country in 1913"
What country? Was fyrom a country in 1913? No. What we did was to liberate a part of Greece from the Ottoman empire. We didnt even touch your present day country which, once again, wasnt even a country then and has nothing to do with historical Makedonia. You are located at the lands of Paeons.

"You changed our names,our toponims."
No we didnt. Why are you afraid to tell the truth? What was it that we changed? You call Thesaloniki Solun, Veroia Ver, Edessa Vodena. Do you have any clue about those names? Thessaloniki, Veroia and Edessa are thousands years old names that you changed when you came in our lands along with the rest of the slavs. Find me please one, ONE, document of the times before 600 ad, that refers to Thessaloniki as Solun and then I will admit that we wrongfully changed those names.

"You are braking every international agreements like in 1920 and 1925 the Serves,the United Nations Declaration on Human Rignts Article 15,Resolution 217 A of Dec.10th 1948."
In what way? What is it that we break in those agreements? Name me one. I could tell oyu that you are breaking another 100 resolutions, but without justifying it, it would only be lies or a try to impress others. Come on, tell us what is it that we break in those resolutions. DO you even know what are they about?

"Dont you know that Northern Greece(Macedonia) the indigenouse people are the Macedonians?"
Yes we do know that, as we also know that Makedonians are agreek tribe, so yes we do know that northern Greece - Makedonia's indigenous people are Greeks. Dont you know that you have nothing in common with Greeks? Of course you do. So why do you even bother claim to be Makedonian since you arent even Greek?

"Dont everybody knows what Greece is doing to the Macedonian minority?"
Enlighten us please. What is it that Greece is doing to the fyromian slavs in fyrom? Because that is the actual "makedonian" minority that really exists. A group of people that tried to steal our heritage and claiming to be something else than what they really are. In Greece there are Makedonians, Thessalians, Peloponesians, Epirotes, Cretans, all GREEKS. I fail to see any minority in there. You really have a problem identifying the concept of the difference between a minority and a tribe of the same ethnic stock, do you?

"Why did Greece re-setled all Pontious from Asia Minor in Macedonia,"
It didnt. The big bulk of those people settled in Attiki and Thessalia. A small part went to Makedonia and Thraki. And we definately had to put those chased and suffering from the mongols people somewhere. What do you think we are? We care for our own kind. As you should have done too, before renouncing your own slavic heritage.

"does this not breaking the UN resolution 217 A of Dec. 10th 1948?"
No it doesnt. Tel me what exact part of that resolution does that move break? Does it say somewhere in there "dont take care of your people and let them die"?

"Greece is systematicly carying on ethnocide by setling these "Prosfigi"amongst the Macedonian population to Hellenize them?"
Why should we try and "Hellenise" the Hellenes? What kind of twisted logic is that? Listen. Dont judge us by your own acts. You are the ones that are trying to "macedonise" every poor uneducated person in your protectorate, this doesnt mean that everyone else does the same thing you know....

"Every Article on Human Rights in Greece has been brocken."
So lets see the details. Name it and inform us how it is broken. Otherwise dont say it again. Spreading rumors got you so far. Now it is time for proof. Fail to do that and you lose (you already did) any kind of credibility. Your politicians are not anymore seriously taken by the civilised world. Every lie has an ending point. You have reached and passed yours. From now on, it is "give proof or dont talk".

"Dont you know the charges brought to the Brussel and Stratsburg courts againts the Greek government by the Macedonian minority in Greece?"
No. Tell us please. What were the charges, who filed the suit, what was the result? Do you know? Has anyone in your propaganda informed you about it? Please let us know. Or maybe you dont have anything in your hands and you are just fishing or trying to create impressions? Those times are gone. Find another way.

"The Greek proclamation in New York on tthe 27 of October,2008 brought up the Resolution 217 A which Greece does not give a damn"
Which says what exactly? And how and why we dont give a damn? Do you even bother to look?

"Why is Greece not allowing the macedonian minority to have their own schools,prey in their own llanguage and speak openly in their own language."
Because 1. there isnt any such minority in Greece as I explained before, the Greeks that are speaking that slavic idiom are too few to establish a right for a language minority school. As for praying, ask the church. Apparently it seems to be the issue that not the Ecumenical Orthodox Seat nor the Roman Catholic Holy See, recognise any kind of such a church as a "macedonian" one, in which case, Greek orthodox church cant allow a heretic church to function within its people. To tell you thte truth, I wouldnt care less for whatever the priests do and what are their differences, but since there is an institute that isnt recognised by anyone, I dont think there could be a legitimate claim by anyone about this issue.

"Why are the Geeks do not recognize the Macedonian minority? Their Language,customs,their names in their mother tongue?"
Because those Greeks are only speaking this slavic idiom. This doesnt make them an ethnic minority, it qualifies them as a linguistic minorty. Their traditions, customs, clothes, food, music, everything, is Greek and since I know that we live in Greece, i find no reason to "recognise" something as Greek. It is Greek already.


To tell you the truth, I was bored all the previous times. I really thank you for this. You gave me a reason to be active again, but this time I will not let anything go by unanswered. You will find me answering every single lying and undocumented post with proof. You will find us Makedonians right in front of you wherever you are trying to plant your lies and half truths. And that will also be the Greek policy from now on. You shouldnt have gone this far in the first place. You should have been happy with whatever you have achieved so far based on your lies and propaganda and aided by your friends the americans and the turks. Now you have to face us and it is going to be a really hard time for you to keep on lying. I wouldnt want to be in your shoes from now on.

Have a bewautyful day my slavi friend. Here in Real Makedonia everything is wonderful :)

What is it with you Greeks?You took part of our country in 1913,You changed our names,our toponims.You are braking every international agreements like in 1920 and 1925 the Serves,the United Nations Declaration on Human Rignts Article 15,Resolution 217 A of Dec.10th 1948.When is this bull going to stop?Are we waiting for the McDougal report on March 2009?Dont everybody knows what Greece is doing to the Macedonian minority?By the shear claim of purity 99% of all Greece?Dont you know that Northern Greece(Macedonia) the indigenouse people are the Macedonians?Why did Greece re-setled all Pontious from Asia Minor in Macedonia,does this not breaking the UN resolution 217 A of Dec. 10th 1948?Does anyone cares to read those clause and act upon them?Greece is systematicly carying on ethnocide by setling these "Prosfigi"amongst the Macedonian population to Hellenize them?Every Article on Human Rights in Greece has been brocken.Does Senators Obama Menendez and Ollympia Snow dont know this? Dont you know the charges brought to the Brussel and Stratsburg courts againts the Greek government by the Macedonian minority in Greece? How much more evidance do the Senators need?The Greek proclamation in New York on tthe 27 of October,2008 brought up the Resolution 217 A which Greece does not give a damn,yet they are making a claim that the Republic of Macedonia is breaking these Resolutions.The question than is this;Why is Greece not allowing the macedonian minority to have their own schools,prey in their own llanguage and speak openly in their own language.Why are the Geeks do not recognize the Macedonian minority? Their Language,customs,their names in their mother tongue?Why is the Greek church not allowing the Macedonian to baptise their children in Macedonian names?Can the Senators answer the above?These are facts Senators,they are not fabricated like the Greeks do.

George Bush has less than 1 week left in the White House.
(Theodoros, 31 October 2008 19:20)

This is incorrect, he will be there and do some last-minute cr@p till third week of January, typically January 26 if I remember. Expect some (hopefully minor) ugly things till bush goes down the toilet as America's worst-ever president.

Theodoros,
you should know that US will support Turkey regardless of what Obama did. On FYROM, I don't know but no US government can afford to mess with Turkey, we need them on our side, not on Russia's.

The greeks need to realize that thier false propaganda is not believed by anyone but themselves. Have they read the history books that state that Aleksandar was not allowed to complete in the olympics by the greeks BECAUSE HE WAS NOT GREEK?
They should look at some French maps of history and maybe then they will realize that Macedonia was partitioned in 1913. That was when they annexed Macedonia Province and not liberated as they claim. They (greeks) fail to read any book or map outside of greek influence because they show the truth and not FALSE greek propaganda.
I am quite sure that all greeks with their wealth of historical knowledge are aware that France was a major participant in THE PARTITION OF MACEDONIA IN 1913. Is that another truth that the greeks wil try to deny?

@6
Instead of any other answer to those "maps" claim of yours, I will point you to the following page so you can see what a map is really about:
http://www.therealmacedonia.com/6401.html

None of them is made by Greeks and I am sure you will find several answers to your undocumented claims.

As for this:
"Have they read the history books that state that Aleksandar was not allowed to complete in the olympics by the greeks BECAUSE HE WAS NOT GREEK?"
No, not really. I havent read any of those books. Can you name one please that also points to some references about its claims? It would be a very interesting read.

Thank you :)

I find it very amusing B92 still refers to the current US Administration's policy regarding FYROm even though George Bush has less than 1 week left in the White House.

The following US House Resolution sponsored by the next President of the United States will no doubt bring some logic and common sense to this festering dispute.

MENENDEZ, OBAMA AND SNOWE TAKE TO U.S. SENATE EFFORT TO END FYROM HOSTILE AND IRREDENTIST PROPAGANDA AGAINST GREECE
03 August, 2007

Legislation to stop state-sponsored propaganda by FYROM (Former Yugoslav Republic of Macedonia), which is potentially dangerous for Greece, was introduced in the U.S. Senate today by Senators Bob Menendez (D-NJ) and Olympia Snowe (R-ME), along with Presidential candidate and Chairman of the European Affairs Subcommittee of the Senate Foreign Relations Committee, Senator Barack Obama (D-IL).

More than 72 Members of Congress and climbing are sponsoring similar legislation (HR 356) in the House of Representatives.

The Resolution (S.Res. 300) points to a television report showing students in a FYROM state-run school being taught that parts of Greece, including Greek Macedonia, are rightfully parts of FYROM. The legislation also points to various recently-published textbooks which contain maps of ‘Greater Macedonia’ extending many miles into Greece and Bulgaria. The Resolution points out that FYROM propaganda, contrary to the U. N. Interim Accord, instills hostility and a rationale of irredentism in portions of the population of FYROM toward Greece and the history of Greece.

The legislation urges FYROM to adhere to the U.N. brokered Interim Agreement, which directs the parties to “promptly take effective measures to prohibit hostile activities or propaganda by state-controlled agencies and to discourage acts by private entities likely to incite violence, hatred or hostility” and review the content of textbooks, maps, and teaching aids to ensure that such tools are stating accurate information. The bill also urges FYROM to work with Greece within the U.N. framework process to achieve longstanding United States and United Nations policy goals by reaching a mutually acceptable official name for FYROM.

Macedonia is one and Greek.

@2 Peter.
I wish you knew what you are talking about.
Want to see some answers?
Lets see now:
"You took part of our country in 1913"
What country? Was fyrom a country in 1913? No. What we did was to liberate a part of Greece from the Ottoman empire. We didnt even touch your present day country which, once again, wasnt even a country then and has nothing to do with historical Makedonia. You are located at the lands of Paeons.

"You changed our names,our toponims."
No we didnt. Why are you afraid to tell the truth? What was it that we changed? You call Thesaloniki Solun, Veroia Ver, Edessa Vodena. Do you have any clue about those names? Thessaloniki, Veroia and Edessa are thousands years old names that you changed when you came in our lands along with the rest of the slavs. Find me please one, ONE, document of the times before 600 ad, that refers to Thessaloniki as Solun and then I will admit that we wrongfully changed those names.

"You are braking every international agreements like in 1920 and 1925 the Serves,the United Nations Declaration on Human Rignts Article 15,Resolution 217 A of Dec.10th 1948."
In what way? What is it that we break in those agreements? Name me one. I could tell oyu that you are breaking another 100 resolutions, but without justifying it, it would only be lies or a try to impress others. Come on, tell us what is it that we break in those resolutions. DO you even know what are they about?

"Dont you know that Northern Greece(Macedonia) the indigenouse people are the Macedonians?"
Yes we do know that, as we also know that Makedonians are agreek tribe, so yes we do know that northern Greece - Makedonia's indigenous people are Greeks. Dont you know that you have nothing in common with Greeks? Of course you do. So why do you even bother claim to be Makedonian since you arent even Greek?

"Dont everybody knows what Greece is doing to the Macedonian minority?"
Enlighten us please. What is it that Greece is doing to the fyromian slavs in fyrom? Because that is the actual "makedonian" minority that really exists. A group of people that tried to steal our heritage and claiming to be something else than what they really are. In Greece there are Makedonians, Thessalians, Peloponesians, Epirotes, Cretans, all GREEKS. I fail to see any minority in there. You really have a problem identifying the concept of the difference between a minority and a tribe of the same ethnic stock, do you?

"Why did Greece re-setled all Pontious from Asia Minor in Macedonia,"
It didnt. The big bulk of those people settled in Attiki and Thessalia. A small part went to Makedonia and Thraki. And we definately had to put those chased and suffering from the mongols people somewhere. What do you think we are? We care for our own kind. As you should have done too, before renouncing your own slavic heritage.

"does this not breaking the UN resolution 217 A of Dec. 10th 1948?"
No it doesnt. Tel me what exact part of that resolution does that move break? Does it say somewhere in there "dont take care of your people and let them die"?

"Greece is systematicly carying on ethnocide by setling these "Prosfigi"amongst the Macedonian population to Hellenize them?"
Why should we try and "Hellenise" the Hellenes? What kind of twisted logic is that? Listen. Dont judge us by your own acts. You are the ones that are trying to "macedonise" every poor uneducated person in your protectorate, this doesnt mean that everyone else does the same thing you know....

"Every Article on Human Rights in Greece has been brocken."
So lets see the details. Name it and inform us how it is broken. Otherwise dont say it again. Spreading rumors got you so far. Now it is time for proof. Fail to do that and you lose (you already did) any kind of credibility. Your politicians are not anymore seriously taken by the civilised world. Every lie has an ending point. You have reached and passed yours. From now on, it is "give proof or dont talk".

"Dont you know the charges brought to the Brussel and Stratsburg courts againts the Greek government by the Macedonian minority in Greece?"
No. Tell us please. What were the charges, who filed the suit, what was the result? Do you know? Has anyone in your propaganda informed you about it? Please let us know. Or maybe you dont have anything in your hands and you are just fishing or trying to create impressions? Those times are gone. Find another way.

"The Greek proclamation in New York on tthe 27 of October,2008 brought up the Resolution 217 A which Greece does not give a damn"
Which says what exactly? And how and why we dont give a damn? Do you even bother to look?

"Why is Greece not allowing the macedonian minority to have their own schools,prey in their own llanguage and speak openly in their own language."
Because 1. there isnt any such minority in Greece as I explained before, the Greeks that are speaking that slavic idiom are too few to establish a right for a language minority school. As for praying, ask the church. Apparently it seems to be the issue that not the Ecumenical Orthodox Seat nor the Roman Catholic Holy See, recognise any kind of such a church as a "macedonian" one, in which case, Greek orthodox church cant allow a heretic church to function within its people. To tell you thte truth, I wouldnt care less for whatever the priests do and what are their differences, but since there is an institute that isnt recognised by anyone, I dont think there could be a legitimate claim by anyone about this issue.

"Why are the Geeks do not recognize the Macedonian minority? Their Language,customs,their names in their mother tongue?"
Because those Greeks are only speaking this slavic idiom. This doesnt make them an ethnic minority, it qualifies them as a linguistic minorty. Their traditions, customs, clothes, food, music, everything, is Greek and since I know that we live in Greece, i find no reason to "recognise" something as Greek. It is Greek already.


To tell you the truth, I was bored all the previous times. I really thank you for this. You gave me a reason to be active again, but this time I will not let anything go by unanswered. You will find me answering every single lying and undocumented post with proof. You will find us Makedonians right in front of you wherever you are trying to plant your lies and half truths. And that will also be the Greek policy from now on. You shouldnt have gone this far in the first place. You should have been happy with whatever you have achieved so far based on your lies and propaganda and aided by your friends the americans and the turks. Now you have to face us and it is going to be a really hard time for you to keep on lying. I wouldnt want to be in your shoes from now on.

Have a bewautyful day my slavi friend. Here in Real Makedonia everything is wonderful :)

What is it with you Greeks?You took part of our country in 1913,You changed our names,our toponims.You are braking every international agreements like in 1920 and 1925 the Serves,the United Nations Declaration on Human Rignts Article 15,Resolution 217 A of Dec.10th 1948.When is this bull going to stop?Are we waiting for the McDougal report on March 2009?Dont everybody knows what Greece is doing to the Macedonian minority?By the shear claim of purity 99% of all Greece?Dont you know that Northern Greece(Macedonia) the indigenouse people are the Macedonians?Why did Greece re-setled all Pontious from Asia Minor in Macedonia,does this not breaking the UN resolution 217 A of Dec. 10th 1948?Does anyone cares to read those clause and act upon them?Greece is systematicly carying on ethnocide by setling these "Prosfigi"amongst the Macedonian population to Hellenize them?Every Article on Human Rights in Greece has been brocken.Does Senators Obama Menendez and Ollympia Snow dont know this? Dont you know the charges brought to the Brussel and Stratsburg courts againts the Greek government by the Macedonian minority in Greece? How much more evidance do the Senators need?The Greek proclamation in New York on tthe 27 of October,2008 brought up the Resolution 217 A which Greece does not give a damn,yet they are making a claim that the Republic of Macedonia is breaking these Resolutions.The question than is this;Why is Greece not allowing the macedonian minority to have their own schools,prey in their own llanguage and speak openly in their own language.Why are the Geeks do not recognize the Macedonian minority? Their Language,customs,their names in their mother tongue?Why is the Greek church not allowing the Macedonian to baptise their children in Macedonian names?Can the Senators answer the above?These are facts Senators,they are not fabricated like the Greeks do.

Theodoros,
you should know that US will support Turkey regardless of what Obama did. On FYROM, I don't know but no US government can afford to mess with Turkey, we need them on our side, not on Russia's.

George Bush has less than 1 week left in the White House.
(Theodoros, 31 October 2008 19:20)

This is incorrect, he will be there and do some last-minute cr@p till third week of January, typically January 26 if I remember. Expect some (hopefully minor) ugly things till bush goes down the toilet as America's worst-ever president.

The greeks need to realize that thier false propaganda is not believed by anyone but themselves. Have they read the history books that state that Aleksandar was not allowed to complete in the olympics by the greeks BECAUSE HE WAS NOT GREEK?
They should look at some French maps of history and maybe then they will realize that Macedonia was partitioned in 1913. That was when they annexed Macedonia Province and not liberated as they claim. They (greeks) fail to read any book or map outside of greek influence because they show the truth and not FALSE greek propaganda.
I am quite sure that all greeks with their wealth of historical knowledge are aware that France was a major participant in THE PARTITION OF MACEDONIA IN 1913. Is that another truth that the greeks wil try to deny?

@6
Instead of any other answer to those "maps" claim of yours, I will point you to the following page so you can see what a map is really about:
http://www.therealmacedonia.com/6401.html

None of them is made by Greeks and I am sure you will find several answers to your undocumented claims.

As for this:
"Have they read the history books that state that Aleksandar was not allowed to complete in the olympics by the greeks BECAUSE HE WAS NOT GREEK?"
No, not really. I havent read any of those books. Can you name one please that also points to some references about its claims? It would be a very interesting read.

Thank you :)