New allegations in organ trafficking case

Ben - they weren't just 'soldiers' but apparently civilians, including women. I believe that there is some substance to this story and this sorry trade certainly takes place in Europe.

And despite your childish goading to all Serbs, I am not Serbian, so others do believe them too.

Peggy: "This should've been investigated much sooner. Carla waited till all the evidence was probably destroyed before she spoke about this. Shame on her for not forcing this issue sooner."

I agree completely. Poor people who have this horrendous sort of fate, and their poor families who have to live with that knowledge.

It would take a miracle to find any evidence now. Enough time has passed for all the evidence to be destroyed.

Perhaps God will produce a miracle. We can only pray for that.

This should've been investigated much sooner. Carla waited till all the evidence was probably destroyed before she spoke about this. Shame on her for not forcing this issue sooner.

Albanian authorities will not give any assistance to Serbia. I know I sound negative, but we have to prepare ourselves for the worst. If any evidence is found that will be a plus.

This makes me sick! And it's all thanks to america.

The Hague never did fully investigate these alleged crimes. Where did you see that they fully investigated these allegations? No full investigation was ever carried through. Second, where is it in anyone's interest to not investigate these alleged crimes fully. If I were Albanian of any type, whether living in Kosovo, Albania, or the US, I'd want nothing to do with anyone conducting such horrors. Thus, I'd want a full investigation. Many American people have for instance done horrible things in the past, such as serial killers. I have nothing against these people going to jail. Just because a person is American doesn't mean I have to protect him. Stop protecting everyone Albanian; protect the good Albanian people not the bad ones.

Frankly I'm surprised by the over-the-top response by some Albanian posters here.

I simply don't understand why the defensiveness. A man confident of innocence has no need to get hysterical about an issue. Quite the contrary, any investigation, provided its fair, should be more than welcome. Were I Albanian I'd jump at the opportunity to put this story to bed so Del Ponte or Serbs cannot bash me on the head with it and discredit my country into the bargain.

I'm forced to consider the possibility that the reason some Albanians reject any investigation is that behind the bravado, within themselves they are fearful the story might be true.

But hell say the story is true, be human, face up to this potentially ugly fact and sympathise with the victims.

Albanian posters are queing up here to deny and yet at the same time they get so upset and angry when Serbs do the same thing. Its hypocricy.

Were it up to me I'd open the book in Serbia. I'd have all bodies returned, solve all crimes, arrest and punish all those that carried them out.

The argument thus is not about pathetic denial. The argument is about investigating an alleged war crime and bringing justice to the pontential vicims of that alleged war crime.

Have some humanity for pity's sake.

Carla waited till all the evidence was probably destroyed before she spoke about this. Shame on her for not forcing this issue sooner.
(Peggy, 28 October 2008 11:52)

It was probably even dirtier. I would suspend all Hague Tribunal activity and begin an investigation from inside. The guilty should be arrested and tried. Once it is cleared, Hague can continue.

“Albanian Chief Prosecutor Ina Rama rejected Serbia's demand to examine the accusations Karla del Ponte had put forward in her book, the media said, according to Tanjug.”

If their was no truth to this story, what does Albania and Albanian prosecutor have to hide. One would think that they would be glad to assist Serbian prosecutor in this case to exonerate Albanian people and their government. Obviously something terrible has happen.
But truth will prevail as always.

Ben said "
Us K.Albanians were not angels in the war,but all the World knows who started the killings,rapings,etc!!!
So I am for more investigations but please don't try to forget that us K.Albanians were the victims and it will take some more time to forget that "bad dream"!!!
(louie, 28 October 2008 14:44) "

Yes ben the world was fed absolute lies through CNN which is controlled by america.

Tell me ben are you for real when you claim Serbs started the killings raping etc first? Why do you think the Serb army went in to KiM? You think they went in for no reason to start killing people?

ben do you really know what uck did prior to Serb amry's arrival? I will remind you: kidnappings, murder, torture, rape, of civillians, murder of police, terrorits attacks at cafes (bombs). THIS IS WHY SERB ARMY WAS SENT IN!!!

New allegations???

the same old story.. this story is alimented only by Serbs.

Hague DID INVESTIGATE this case and found NO evidence.

What's new now here???

We should allow Serbian prosecutors to play inspector Clouseau around our Alps???

They can come there as tourists if they wish, the investigation was already carried out by Hague investigators.

You can continua repeating your lies as much as you want in the end you will even believe in them- BUT ONLY YOU.

And beside don’t you see the paradox: you claim that you were dominating the war in Kosova and on other hand you claim that hundreds of your solders were captured and killed- this to me sounds like unambiguous defeat.

You cannot have both of them- lie has a short leg... you have to choose one version...

'bgnanon, your are either missing the point..'

Oh am I? My apologies, I thought this was about representing the interests of the disappeared and kidnapped.

Oh no I have to look at this as an ethnic problem - as nationalists do.

The land is more important than the people eh Art?

Ben, smells bad or what?If you want to live in just society ,you need to fight against crime not supporting it.When the serbs(criminals) are wanted even dead ones you rejoice but when the direction turn to albanian site you start yelling...I wouldn't like to see you loosing your organs being alive!Ataman is right. All this show at the Haague must stop, be investigating from inside and all those judges,prosecutors who had some evidences,proves about such crimes must find a place in the prison.US will not be backing you endlessly when more evidences will come to surface.Never,nobody could ever destroy all the traks of their crimes! Sooner or later they will face justice. If humans will close their eyes to this, there is SOMEONE who is not partial...

If the albanians have nothing to hide then why not allow inspectors the opportunity to search for evidence? The albanians have been up to something unfortunately they have had all the time in the world to get rid of all the evidence. But the truth will come out sooner or later.

The presupposition of innocence until the contrary is proven is always missing when the things want to be forced- as in the posts of our Russian f-friend here.

The investigation by Hague investigators DID occur.

The investigation continues when SUFFICINET ELEMENTS and/or additional elements appear. When there are NOT SUFFICIENT ELEMENTS the investigation IS CLOSED or do not even begin. This is what happened. Like it or not.

Otherwise I might ask the police to investigate on everyone that I dislike. But they will ask me firstly to provide them with some sufficient ELEMENTS before that they OPEN official an investigation if I fail in that they will send me home and perhaps I might even be charged for defamation.

Hague investigators were in Burrel and found NOT even ONE single element to retain serious to justify the further investigations.

The first INDICMENTS that crimes in Burrel might (underline MIGHT- presupposition of innocence until the contrary is PROOVEN) have happen were PRODUCED by Serbian authorities and only them.

The people that have been in Tirana and north Albania on that period (1999) KNOW very well that at that time in those parts were almost 1 million refugees- that is 1 million potential eye witnesses- and it would be sufficient that only one speaks.

PLUS almost ALL security and intelligence agencies of Europe and US were there.

In Tirana you couldn't find a free room in Hotels even if you would pay 5,000$ per night. There were only few EU politicians that did not VISIT Tirana and the north at that time.

There were many congressman’s, senators, MP of various countries EVERY DAY.

Hundred of journalists covering every angle, every village- all the time.

Considering this plus the fact that no tangible proofs were found Hague investigators probably I reckon concluded that there is no need for additional investigation.

And to conclude the investigation IS always possible ONLY if required by HAGUE and not by Serbia as Serbia is using this type of investigation for POLITICAL purposes and as weapon against the Kosova’s independence.

Serbs needs to investigate the MASS GRAVES OF K-Albanians in Surcin Airport of Belgrade from where Serbian leaders take their flights to tale the world the "truth" about Kosova.And these are NOT indictments- the BODIES WERE FOUND- exhumination took place.

They have PLENTY of home work to do before they travel abroad.

I am not here to defend NO ONE but just ask form you to respect the presupposition of innocence until the contrary is proven or in other words be guarantists- just a bit- it is an A,B,C of democracy... it’s time that you learn something about this philosophy and understanding of the world and human kind.

“Albania is a sovereign country and the Serbian prosecutor has no jurisdiction in Albania, nor can he give orders or issue demands to the Albanian Chief Prosecutor.”

Serbia is not demanding anything, it’s a moral duty of every decent democratic law abiding country to arrest and prosecute criminals, no mater who or what nationalities there are.
Nobody is dinning that Albania is a sovereign country, (quite different from Kosovo) and that Serbia has some kind of jurisdiction in Albania.
It was not Serbia that initiated investigation into human organ trafficking in Albania, it was Carla Del Ponte. She was at one time one of most favorite people with you Albanians. As long she was only prosecuting Serbs. Now that she has accused Albanians, she is stupid and irrelevant somehow in Serbia’s favor in this ridicules thing called “independent Kosovo”.

“The day when Serbia allows Albanian prosecutors to conduct investigations in Serbia on the fate of the missing Kosovar civilians, should be the day when Serbia might have a right to ask for the same favor from their Albanian counterparts.”


Why would Serbia allow Albania to do anything for Kosovo citizens. Kosovo citizens are Serbian citizens. Serbia is quite capable of taking care of its citizens. Allegations are this horrible crime was on Albanian soil and involved Serbian citizens. Albania has a moral obligation not only to Serbia, but to rest of the civilized world to cooperate in this investigation. Otherwise until thy do, everybody will assume they are hiding the truth.
I just hope this whole idea of organ trafficking is not true. For the sake of everybody involved. Because repercussions could be huge.

Some new snippets of information here.

The albanian owners of the infamous 'yellow house' have revised their 'story' that the house was never painted yellow. Seems that they now 'remember' painting a 'yellow strip' around the bottom of the building for a wedding - seemingly after these alleged atrocities took place, but before del Ponte visited in 2004.

Curious that they should 'remember' this just now & especially so given that del Ponte's investigation found traces of yellow paint at the bases of the walls - so owners 'new story' had to 'explain' earlier 'discrepancy'.

And this makes an interesting parallel to the albanian owners earlier 'revision' of another 'story' - when Abdulah Katuqi initially claimed that blood splatter found in a room in the 'yellow house' were due to his wife having delivered babies in that room. Turns out that she said it happened elsewhere whereupon the owner changed his 'story' & now 'claimed' blood traces were due to animal carcases being butchered.

Well, one thing's for sure - there was certainly butchery going on in that house.

Other new bit is this 'documentation' the B92 investigative team claims to have seen which apparently shows albanian PM Berisha ordering the destruction of any possible evidence pertaining to the albanian organ-extracion trade.

And together with the assertion that Berisha was under pressure from Haradinaj, will be interesting to see what comes of this.


ben:
Is a pity that these snippets of evidence (circumstantial or otherwise), cannot be 'excised' from the public domain with the same ease that albanian KLA criminals apparently did with the organs from their victims isn't it?

Very sad.


'A' said:
> This is a typical example of Serbian revisionism.
And is crystal clear from the above just who it is who is engaged in 'revisionism'.


Wake up:
Is pretty clear just what it is that B92 is saying - see above. But do agree that B92 needs to expand on this.

As for that 'poor' albanian family, don't recall any mention of 30 special forces police storming their premises. Another of the old man's 'stories' perhaps?

And whatever else they may or may not be, somehow doubt that the word 'poor' quite cuts it.

Who here is suprised at albanians refusal to investigate gruesome way to support UCK.
Where is that Arab who was mad that that he got kidneys from a Christian Serbian man.
A lot would come to light, so fear that albanians are feeling,will not go away for as long as we don`t get answers on what happen to this people.

It does not make any sence that Haradinaj ordered Berisha to destroy evidence.
Berisha only came to power in 2005 and if Haradinaj had to order somebody it would not be Berisha as he was not in power from 97 to 2005.
Please next time when you tell lies tell some better ones.
This is enough to bring the whole sand castle lie down.
Good luck with your investigation B92.
Asim

This is a typical example of Serbian revisionism.

Could B92 provide the documents showing Haradinaj asking Berisha to destroy documents?

Very sad to see B92 fall to such a low level where facts are mixed with fantasy a la science fiction.

probably Belgrade has more information on these horrible albanian crimes, but whithholds it in order to unveil it when it is a better moment for that.

the ICJ will be quite interested in the material provided by serbian prosecutors.

as for the ( expected ) denial of our dear friends...:

you are ashaming yourselves, ...and even trying to pull the focus from albanian crimes by simply saying that albanian war-victims were slaughtered because their organs were needed...

It is very important that this investigation has started.

To b92,to all serbian and proserbian posters here did you ever stop and think what happened to K-albanians bodies and their organs that have been slaughtered from serbian paramilitary forces, they also did have families which still are waiting any news to what happened to them.For victims in kosova and what happened to them we have proof .

"The B92 team also saw documentation where it can be seen that Albanian Prime Minister Sali Berisha, under pressure from KLA leader and former Kosovo Prime Minister Ramush Haradinaj, ordered the security forces to destroy all documentation that had any connection with the disappearance of Serbs from Kosovo, their transportation to Albania and organ harvesting."

Ahh, but Ramush Haradinaj resined in February 2005, while Berisha didn't become a PM until in September 2005. There was not a single second when both of them were PMs simultaneously. So this is obviously a thick lie. And for everyone that knows Berisha, to say that he could be pressured by ... Haradinaj, is a bit ridiculous. Moreover, since you don't seem to know, Haradinaj was never the "KLA leader", but merely a regional commander. If you want to make up outlandish stories, at least know the basic facts.

This Katuci family is being ostracized for the color of their house. Give it a rest already. It is white or it is yellow, why does it matter. People, it is not a crime to paint your house any color you want, white or yellow or pink or black, the color is not an indicator that you're up to something sinister, or worse that you've committed a crime. This family is extremely poor judging from their house. How could they have been at the center of such a multimillion dollar operation and still be so dirt poor? Hundreeds of thousands of dollars can be fetched for a kidney, and this guys wife is still washing clothes by boiling them in the yard? Give me a break.

Oh, but they found traces of blood in their house. So what, I pricked my finger the other day trying to install a shelf in my basement, does that mean that I should expect a visit from the Hague interrogators?

And to the people that keep asking for more investigations on top of the Hague investigations, do you get it that no credible evidence has ever been found? By international prosecutors, highly specialized and trained in war crimes forensics. That took over that house for 2 days, not allowing any member of the family approach into the house while investigation was still going on, dismantled floors and ceilings and checked every square inch of the walls with special lights, and chemical substances, digged the yard, and did all that a modern forensic teams do, and came up with what - absolutely nothing. And why don't you have the same ardent zeal to find out what happened to the 1500 missing Kosovars that the state of Serbia - not some disorganized guerrilla group - kidnapped from Kosova. Not even an investigation is needed about their fate, since the state of Serbia has that information, but refuses to release it to their families.

usaSerb
“Albanian Chief Prosecutor Ina Rama rejected Serbia's demand to examine the accusations Karla del Ponte had put forward in her book, the media said, according to Tanjug.”

If their was no truth to this story, what does Albania and Albanian prosecutor have to hide. "

Albania is a sovereign country and the Serbian prosecutor has no jurisdiction in Albania, nor can he give orders or issue demands to the Albanian Chief Prosecutor. Nor does the ICTY (International Criminal Tribunal for ex-Yugoslavia) in Hague have any jurisdiction whatsoever in Albania, so Albania has already given up a lot by allowing the Hague prosecutors to conduct an investigation in its territory to begin with. Such an investigation came up with nothing however.

The Serb War Crimes prosecutor knows this very well, as he knows that this case and such allegations have absolutely no legs to stand on. He knows very well that keeping this "story" in the news is nothing more than a political game at the expense of Kosova's war of independence, and by extension against world's recognition of this independence. So why should Albania play along and be part of Serbia's propagandistic offensive against their own ethnic kin, and against itself first of all? And for what? To convince hardline Serb nationalists, who still to this day deny the Serb atrocities against Kosovar civilians, and their forced exodus of biblical proportions that have been well documented by the entire world?

The day when Serbia allows Albanian prosecutors to conduct investigations in Serbia on the fate of the missing Kosovar civilians, should be the day when Serbia might have a right to ask for the same favor from their Albanian counterparts.

Asim TIA & Adrian Gashi, your point that Berisha and Haradinaj were not Prime Minister's of Albania and Kosovo at the same doesn't mean that Haradinaj was able to order him to destroy evidence later. He certainly wields plenty of power despite no official position.

"The B92 team also saw documentation where it can be seen that Albanian Prime Minister Sali Berisha, under pressure from KLA leader and former Kosovo Prime Minister Ramush Haradinaj, ordered the security forces to destroy all documentation that had any connection with the disappearance of Serbs from Kosovo, their transportation to Albania and organ harvesting."

Huh? You saw what documents, the destroyed ones or a video of Haradinaj threatening Berisha? Clarify. As for the poor family, I don't blame them for changing answers, if 30 special forces police enter in your house, you wonder what you did wrong.

"They killed 400 hundered and
maybe saved 1000 lives" This has got to be the most wicked and ignorant statement ever posted.What an insult to the families who have lost their loved ones, a total and utter disregard to human life shame on you.

B92

Are you sure it wasn’t a yellow submarine not a house?
You know my investigation tells me that a yellow submarine was seen by a few journalists in 1999 in that region.
Somehow the Russian which were part of the OCBE observing the Albanian border and the Serb soldier bombing Albanian village near the border fail to see it.
Also the Red Cross and hundreds of charity organization working in northern Albania at the time fail to notice.
A full investigation made by Hague did not reveille anything and the full investigation translated in English was handed to the Serb counterpart yesterday in Tirana.

However to my astonishment no mentions of a yellow submarine. I sincerely hope that the Serb investigation finds the yellow submarine and for sure your video of Albanians mountain will be of great assistance.
Out of curiosity dear b92 why did you film undercover? After all there are 1 million foreign visitors each year coming to Albania and none of them film undercover.
Never mind I wish you good luck.
Please do not forget to bring more evidence and if you ever see a yellow submarine let me know.

«PLUS almost ALL security and intelligence agencies of Europe and US were there»!?? Have you ever heard secret services or CIA,bla-bla to be angels of truth? I guess you know that there are a lot of«cleaners» .To destroy the evidences is not so hard.If there were so many is good to ask yourself:what is the purpose? Almost after 10 years Dini , Ratmane start talking about american justice and carte blanche for Serbia. For sure more will come out.I'm not pro-serbian or pro-albanian...I AM PRO-JUSTICE!

What on earth is funny about the loss of human life?? It is frightening how anyone in their right mind can find this amusing. This is NOT about scoring political points. It IS about justice for victims and their families. Surely it is in the intersts of all mankind that this investigation of war crimes brings to light what happened to those who perished. Those who fail to see this need to adress their own narrow-minded views and racial intolerance.

bgnanon, your are either missing the point or are intentionally ignoring the political motivations and intentions behind this so-called investigation that is based on allegations on a book which bases its allegations on Belgrade tabloids. The Hague (funny how Serbs fluctuate on international law) quite clearly marked this allegation as baseless yet it is in Serbia's interest to propagate as truth these allegations, and we all know for what effect.

And speaking of allowing Albania carry out its own investigation in Belgrade about the whereabouts of missing Albanians, if you Serbs feel queasy about it, why not let the ICJ do such a thing, giving them all the documentation and evidence Belgrade withheld from the Hague Tribunal.

Carla was not a friend of the Serbs and in my view the fact that she has raised this issue speaks volumes, she must have a conscience at last. as for there being no evidence -of course there is- every recipient of a Serb organ is carrying the evidence in their bodies- look for people that had organ donations at this time especially rich foriegners. Truth will eventually out even in the corrupt, manipulative USA and its foolish friends.

Naturally the Albanians want to cover-up any involvement in organ smuggling. The United Nations & WCJ should step into this matter.

If the Albanian prosecutor's position is that only the Hague can investigate, then I don't understand why Rama agreed to meet with the Serbian side in the first place. It seems like such a waste of time.

I personally would prefer that the Serbian prosecutors be allowed to carry out the investigation, while being monitored by their Albanian counterparts to ensure "fair play" so to speak.

Whatever the outcome of the investigation, it will help close a chapter in our countries' histories.

I think the way B92 is reporting this story is not entirely correct. The Albanian Attorney General did agree to cooperate in any investigations, but she could not and she does not even have the authority to grant authorisation to foreign investigators to conduct anything in Albanian territory. That's not up to her, because that's what the Albanian Constitution says. Then there is the smal complication of the investigators being Serbs, which would be politically suicidal for any Albanian government to agree to. I guess it would the same for the Serb government if Albanian investigators asked for permission to carry out investigations in Serbian soil. The only solution would be for international investigators to take over the case, which I guess is what what Del Ponte should have done all along instead of just talking about this.

And by way of clarification: when is Haradinaj supposed to have asked Berisha to clear up the evidence? These guys hate each other with a passion, and were sworn enemies for a long time. and besides, Berisha only became prime minister in 2005.

If it was an organised crime then should be investigated and bring to justice those criminals!
But the question is the big IF!!!
I for one would like that all Governments to work together and find the remains of loved ones who are still missing!

Us K.Albanians were not angels in the war,but all the World knows who started the killings,rapings,etc!!!
So I am for more investigations but please don't try to forget that us K.Albanians were the victims and it will take some more time to forget that "bad dream"!!!

"it’s a moral duty of every decent democratic law abiding country to arrest and prosecute criminals, no mater who or what nationalities there are."

And who are the criminals in this case? The Katuci family for painting their house yellow or white? Do you realize that there were international investigators that could find absolutely no reliable evidence to continue the investigation? Arrest people on what? Allegations made by a journalist of the "Kurir" tabloid of Belgrade?
And what is the moral duty of Serbia that killed 10 thousand civilians in Kosova. These were organized killings by the state of Serbia, by its army and police forces, that had a clear chain of command, so it's very easy for Serbia to find out who the perpetrators, enablers and executors were. These people are, as we speak, walking free in the streets of Serbia.


"...Serbia is quite capable of taking care of its citizens."

Yeah, we saw that very well in 1999, how Serbia took care of its citizens.

...Have some humanity for pity's sake.
(bganon, 28 October 2008 23:09)

Let’s be honest here. The Serbs are already confident that the evidence has been removed and nothing will be found anyway. Weather the Albanians investigated this or the Serbs, at least one side would still not be happy with the findings or the lack of. So, the only solution would be to send a neutral team, i.e. the Hague investigators. But wait, they've already conducted their investigations and the Albanians (KLA etc...) have been cleared.
Now, why should the Albanians feel guilty of something just because they haven’t been cleared by the Serb and Belorussian investigating team?
P.S. It’s a rhetorical question of course.

Roberto,

I don't think here is anyone who would be opposed to the discovery of the missing. We can discuss it but how far it can be implemented is an other question. There could be some serious obstacles.

Of course, no one will shut Hague down. It will continue with judgements no side is happy. I did not want it "shut down" as you write. I clearly said: suspend, investigate, clean up, than continue. The word "suspend" means: "TEMPORARILY CEASE THE ACTIVITY".

Sorry, Roberto - this is my profession, this is why I am "ATA Man". If there is an error during ATA drive transfer, you should suspend the I/O, investigate the cause of the error, correct what possible and if possible, resume the I/O. I am writing ATA drivers, so I know.

I use precisely the same terminology to the Hague. But I have absolutely no illusions about it.

About Carla... well, ask her. She was cheered by Albanians for so long, now they love to hate her. But don't think Serbs cheer her now.

The most important: this is - as you may know - not Bay Area. Even in the Bay Area I strongly prefer Viet to any Chinese. The best IMO is the Vung Tau in Milpitas (NOT San Jose). Their specialty is the catfish soup with pineapples.

Eating at Chinese place in Belgrade, Budapest or Prishtina means:

a) you don't know, what you are doing
b) you don't care about your stomach
c) you don't care about your wallet

(or all above). A road-side qebaptoria or kafana is (hygienically) a much safer bet than most Chinese restaurants here. The ones which are good enough and hygienic enough are not affordable even by SF Bay Area standards.

Why should the Albanian Prosecutor assist the Serbian prosecutors who have taken upon themselves to uncover the alleged whereabouts of Serbs allegedly kidnapped by the KLA, as alleged in a book by Carla del Ponte, based on the allegations of a few reporters? Do you see the absurdity in such lack of evidence, albeit some evidence has been "provided" by Belgrade. Riiiiight. The Albanian Prosecutor knows full well about this very politically motivated "investigation."

As for B92 taking it upon themselves to investigate about this investigation, it is truly laughable how weak their lying is, given their total ignorance of who was in power in Albania and who was in control of the KLA.

And to the pro-Serb posters here; hold on kids, just yesterday you were preaching "innocent until proven guilty." The Hague already investigated these allegations and found nothing. But perhaps according to the Serbian view, a case can only the concluded when something is found. No, allegations sometimes just remain that.

One other interesting point out of all of this is the lack of Belgrade's investigation of its own dirty work, whose evidence is in its own backyard!

So, the only solution would be to send a neutral team, i.e. the Hague investigators. But wait, they've already conducted their investigations and the Albanians (KLA etc...) have been cleared.??? How? No enough evidences...witnesses are disappearing? Good for you Ben.And who doesn't know that all show at Hague is always anti-serbian? Since Holbrook,Albright,CIA is backing you ,this show will go on and it must be stoped.

"The authorities in Tirana will not allow Serbian War Crimes Prosecutor Vladimir Vukčević to carry out an investigation into the existence of a clinic in the Albanian village of Gur"

That's right,you will not be allowed to wonder around in Albania to look for something until you open ur own doors for As to ivestigate the ovens and masive graves around Belgrade,it's very simple,
no need to get upset about it.
thanks

"The day when Serbia allows Albanian prosecutors to conduct investigations in Serbia on the fate of the missing Kosovar civilians, should be the day when Serbia might have a right to ask for the same favor from their Albanian counterparts."
(Adrian Gashi, 28 October 2008 19:00)

Alright -- i just read this B92 "update" and 32 comments, and now is my turn :-) i basically agree with... Adrian. and yes, i have been pretty consistent about it. if you really care about the missing, then the relevant parties need to sit down (at a table, a chinese restaurant, i really don't care) and come up with a plan for discovering the fate of the missing. ALL the missing, or as many as possible.

for those who oppose such an idea, i suspect that you are only interested in making hay of these "developments" and scoring your political points. so -- who will stand up for this open proposition, floated by adrian (with your permission)and myself, to strongly work on all fronts to discover the truth? Let's hear from you, please. and speak clearly, frisco is a bit far from the balkans.

as for your proposal, mr. ataman (and i did already respond to you!?) sorry -- No one gets to shut down the hague, for any reason. no excuses! Now, if you want to try to redirect the profits from Carla's book to, say, civilian victims of war, or needy children in the balkans, well -- let's talk!

thank you, chvala and felamenderet.

roberto
robertoruss@yahoo.com

This is really funny. How they try to turn history. Now they are the victims, they were killed and they never killed anyone

With so many Internationals present at that time in Northern Albania, do you really think this could've happened? I wonder why The Hague forensic scientists never came up with a crime related conclusion. Does Serbia want Mr. Salih Berisha to go to the Hague Tribunal next? This sounds to me very absurd. One thing I know for sure that the truth will always be revealed no matter how long it takes. This is an ongoing Serbian propaganda against Albania to try and delay Albania's membership to the EU. In Serbia's best interest is to send back the exhumed bodies of K-Albanians from Batajnica, Surchin, and other mass graves. This way their loved ones can bury them properly and have a tombstone they can visit. I've never seen a picture of a Serbian family massacred but I've seen over thousand K-Albanian families with their brains blown up and scattered all over the place.

If it was an organised crime then should be investigated and bring to justice those criminals!
But the question is the big IF!!!
I for one would like that all Governments to work together and find the remains of loved ones who are still missing!

Us K.Albanians were not angels in the war,but all the World knows who started the killings,rapings,etc!!!
So I am for more investigations but please don't try to forget that us K.Albanians were the victims and it will take some more time to forget that "bad dream"!!!

"I told you that in my opinion this is a case of international organized crime,” said War Crimes Prosecutor Vladimir Vukčević." ...!!!

Even though apparently B92 "has never heard this argument", the prosecutor Vukcevic is saying something which has been a rumor a long time ago and which most probably (according to the most informed sources) represents the truth.

This means that the organ trafficking in Albania (during 1999, since there were absolutely no reports or allegations for later than 1999) does not have anything to do with UCK (KLA), Serbs or any Albanian politician.

The rumors (I am talking here about serious sources, every serious journalists knows this) say that it was a typical case of paying and buying organs from Albanian citizens, involving not only Albanian, but also Greek, Russian and Pakistani mafia.

Now, this has nothing to do with Serbs and the KLA, but the rumors go on in saying that the Serbian state is trying everything to use this as an argument and to do everything possible to spin the story as one of KLA vs Serbs.

It sounds to me as if Vukcevic has recognized this. I bet he will now have many problems with official Serbian propaganda machinery!!

How many houses were burned in Kosova? 150.000? how many people were killed in Kosova? Around 10.000? Serbs should apology for those crimes. There were crimes from both parties but you can not compare the wolf with a cat. This is the true story. I do not understand what in the world Kosova Albanian politicians are waiting for before they sue Serbia for Genocide in Haga. Just shame on Albanian politics for been so peaceful. How many missing people are in Serbian Jails or Dead? 3000? B 92 please respect my opinion .

I as an albanian have seen some very good comments from both camps. I realize that there are a lot of forums where Albanias and Serbs just talked trash to each other, but here at B 92 at least they try to respect more each other and use facts and logics other that hate. This is a website that has made a change and has shown that dialogue can make things better. It is sad but in my personal opion is see true peace between serbs and albanians only when Kosovo and Bosnia is split in ethnic group. I do not support it but only then Serbs and Albanias will be somehow satisfied and will be more respectful to each other. This is sad but is the truth at least on my opinion.

this exemplaric case shows the state of mind of Serbia ... when ex-BG-commanded soldiers disappeared, then they were "kidnapped" !! wow !! and there was a center, where all the kidnapped ones were brought to ... and there their organs were "harvested"

okay. why are the lists of the disappeared are not public ?? it would be the first step to find out, how many are missed and what are their names, in which units and where they were fighting. let's see some facts from the Serbian side and check some names, before this media HOAX will continue!

this would mean: journalistic work in form recherche, instead of pure speculation based on rumours. for one decade we have never seen any facts in this case. why?

New allegations???

the same old story.. this story is alimented only by Serbs.

Hague DID INVESTIGATE this case and found NO evidence.

What's new now here???

We should allow Serbian prosecutors to play inspector Clouseau around our Alps???

They can come there as tourists if they wish, the investigation was already carried out by Hague investigators.

You can continua repeating your lies as much as you want in the end you will even believe in them- BUT ONLY YOU.

And beside don’t you see the paradox: you claim that you were dominating the war in Kosova and on other hand you claim that hundreds of your solders were captured and killed- this to me sounds like unambiguous defeat.

You cannot have both of them- lie has a short leg... you have to choose one version...

This is a typical example of Serbian revisionism.

Could B92 provide the documents showing Haradinaj asking Berisha to destroy documents?

Very sad to see B92 fall to such a low level where facts are mixed with fantasy a la science fiction.

B92

Are you sure it wasn’t a yellow submarine not a house?
You know my investigation tells me that a yellow submarine was seen by a few journalists in 1999 in that region.
Somehow the Russian which were part of the OCBE observing the Albanian border and the Serb soldier bombing Albanian village near the border fail to see it.
Also the Red Cross and hundreds of charity organization working in northern Albania at the time fail to notice.
A full investigation made by Hague did not reveille anything and the full investigation translated in English was handed to the Serb counterpart yesterday in Tirana.

However to my astonishment no mentions of a yellow submarine. I sincerely hope that the Serb investigation finds the yellow submarine and for sure your video of Albanians mountain will be of great assistance.
Out of curiosity dear b92 why did you film undercover? After all there are 1 million foreign visitors each year coming to Albania and none of them film undercover.
Never mind I wish you good luck.
Please do not forget to bring more evidence and if you ever see a yellow submarine let me know.

The presupposition of innocence until the contrary is proven is always missing when the things want to be forced- as in the posts of our Russian f-friend here.

The investigation by Hague investigators DID occur.

The investigation continues when SUFFICINET ELEMENTS and/or additional elements appear. When there are NOT SUFFICIENT ELEMENTS the investigation IS CLOSED or do not even begin. This is what happened. Like it or not.

Otherwise I might ask the police to investigate on everyone that I dislike. But they will ask me firstly to provide them with some sufficient ELEMENTS before that they OPEN official an investigation if I fail in that they will send me home and perhaps I might even be charged for defamation.

Hague investigators were in Burrel and found NOT even ONE single element to retain serious to justify the further investigations.

The first INDICMENTS that crimes in Burrel might (underline MIGHT- presupposition of innocence until the contrary is PROOVEN) have happen were PRODUCED by Serbian authorities and only them.

The people that have been in Tirana and north Albania on that period (1999) KNOW very well that at that time in those parts were almost 1 million refugees- that is 1 million potential eye witnesses- and it would be sufficient that only one speaks.

PLUS almost ALL security and intelligence agencies of Europe and US were there.

In Tirana you couldn't find a free room in Hotels even if you would pay 5,000$ per night. There were only few EU politicians that did not VISIT Tirana and the north at that time.

There were many congressman’s, senators, MP of various countries EVERY DAY.

Hundred of journalists covering every angle, every village- all the time.

Considering this plus the fact that no tangible proofs were found Hague investigators probably I reckon concluded that there is no need for additional investigation.

And to conclude the investigation IS always possible ONLY if required by HAGUE and not by Serbia as Serbia is using this type of investigation for POLITICAL purposes and as weapon against the Kosova’s independence.

Serbs needs to investigate the MASS GRAVES OF K-Albanians in Surcin Airport of Belgrade from where Serbian leaders take their flights to tale the world the "truth" about Kosova.And these are NOT indictments- the BODIES WERE FOUND- exhumination took place.

They have PLENTY of home work to do before they travel abroad.

I am not here to defend NO ONE but just ask form you to respect the presupposition of innocence until the contrary is proven or in other words be guarantists- just a bit- it is an A,B,C of democracy... it’s time that you learn something about this philosophy and understanding of the world and human kind.

"The B92 team also saw documentation where it can be seen that Albanian Prime Minister Sali Berisha, under pressure from KLA leader and former Kosovo Prime Minister Ramush Haradinaj, ordered the security forces to destroy all documentation that had any connection with the disappearance of Serbs from Kosovo, their transportation to Albania and organ harvesting."

Huh? You saw what documents, the destroyed ones or a video of Haradinaj threatening Berisha? Clarify. As for the poor family, I don't blame them for changing answers, if 30 special forces police enter in your house, you wonder what you did wrong.

It does not make any sence that Haradinaj ordered Berisha to destroy evidence.
Berisha only came to power in 2005 and if Haradinaj had to order somebody it would not be Berisha as he was not in power from 97 to 2005.
Please next time when you tell lies tell some better ones.
This is enough to bring the whole sand castle lie down.
Good luck with your investigation B92.
Asim

If it was an organised crime then should be investigated and bring to justice those criminals!
But the question is the big IF!!!
I for one would like that all Governments to work together and find the remains of loved ones who are still missing!

Us K.Albanians were not angels in the war,but all the World knows who started the killings,rapings,etc!!!
So I am for more investigations but please don't try to forget that us K.Albanians were the victims and it will take some more time to forget that "bad dream"!!!

To b92,to all serbian and proserbian posters here did you ever stop and think what happened to K-albanians bodies and their organs that have been slaughtered from serbian paramilitary forces, they also did have families which still are waiting any news to what happened to them.For victims in kosova and what happened to them we have proof .

"The B92 team also saw documentation where it can be seen that Albanian Prime Minister Sali Berisha, under pressure from KLA leader and former Kosovo Prime Minister Ramush Haradinaj, ordered the security forces to destroy all documentation that had any connection with the disappearance of Serbs from Kosovo, their transportation to Albania and organ harvesting."

Ahh, but Ramush Haradinaj resined in February 2005, while Berisha didn't become a PM until in September 2005. There was not a single second when both of them were PMs simultaneously. So this is obviously a thick lie. And for everyone that knows Berisha, to say that he could be pressured by ... Haradinaj, is a bit ridiculous. Moreover, since you don't seem to know, Haradinaj was never the "KLA leader", but merely a regional commander. If you want to make up outlandish stories, at least know the basic facts.

This Katuci family is being ostracized for the color of their house. Give it a rest already. It is white or it is yellow, why does it matter. People, it is not a crime to paint your house any color you want, white or yellow or pink or black, the color is not an indicator that you're up to something sinister, or worse that you've committed a crime. This family is extremely poor judging from their house. How could they have been at the center of such a multimillion dollar operation and still be so dirt poor? Hundreeds of thousands of dollars can be fetched for a kidney, and this guys wife is still washing clothes by boiling them in the yard? Give me a break.

Oh, but they found traces of blood in their house. So what, I pricked my finger the other day trying to install a shelf in my basement, does that mean that I should expect a visit from the Hague interrogators?

And to the people that keep asking for more investigations on top of the Hague investigations, do you get it that no credible evidence has ever been found? By international prosecutors, highly specialized and trained in war crimes forensics. That took over that house for 2 days, not allowing any member of the family approach into the house while investigation was still going on, dismantled floors and ceilings and checked every square inch of the walls with special lights, and chemical substances, digged the yard, and did all that a modern forensic teams do, and came up with what - absolutely nothing. And why don't you have the same ardent zeal to find out what happened to the 1500 missing Kosovars that the state of Serbia - not some disorganized guerrilla group - kidnapped from Kosova. Not even an investigation is needed about their fate, since the state of Serbia has that information, but refuses to release it to their families.

Why should the Albanian Prosecutor assist the Serbian prosecutors who have taken upon themselves to uncover the alleged whereabouts of Serbs allegedly kidnapped by the KLA, as alleged in a book by Carla del Ponte, based on the allegations of a few reporters? Do you see the absurdity in such lack of evidence, albeit some evidence has been "provided" by Belgrade. Riiiiight. The Albanian Prosecutor knows full well about this very politically motivated "investigation."

As for B92 taking it upon themselves to investigate about this investigation, it is truly laughable how weak their lying is, given their total ignorance of who was in power in Albania and who was in control of the KLA.

And to the pro-Serb posters here; hold on kids, just yesterday you were preaching "innocent until proven guilty." The Hague already investigated these allegations and found nothing. But perhaps according to the Serbian view, a case can only the concluded when something is found. No, allegations sometimes just remain that.

One other interesting point out of all of this is the lack of Belgrade's investigation of its own dirty work, whose evidence is in its own backyard!

...Have some humanity for pity's sake.
(bganon, 28 October 2008 23:09)

Let’s be honest here. The Serbs are already confident that the evidence has been removed and nothing will be found anyway. Weather the Albanians investigated this or the Serbs, at least one side would still not be happy with the findings or the lack of. So, the only solution would be to send a neutral team, i.e. the Hague investigators. But wait, they've already conducted their investigations and the Albanians (KLA etc...) have been cleared.
Now, why should the Albanians feel guilty of something just because they haven’t been cleared by the Serb and Belorussian investigating team?
P.S. It’s a rhetorical question of course.

"it’s a moral duty of every decent democratic law abiding country to arrest and prosecute criminals, no mater who or what nationalities there are."

And who are the criminals in this case? The Katuci family for painting their house yellow or white? Do you realize that there were international investigators that could find absolutely no reliable evidence to continue the investigation? Arrest people on what? Allegations made by a journalist of the "Kurir" tabloid of Belgrade?
And what is the moral duty of Serbia that killed 10 thousand civilians in Kosova. These were organized killings by the state of Serbia, by its army and police forces, that had a clear chain of command, so it's very easy for Serbia to find out who the perpetrators, enablers and executors were. These people are, as we speak, walking free in the streets of Serbia.


"...Serbia is quite capable of taking care of its citizens."

Yeah, we saw that very well in 1999, how Serbia took care of its citizens.

usaSerb
“Albanian Chief Prosecutor Ina Rama rejected Serbia's demand to examine the accusations Karla del Ponte had put forward in her book, the media said, according to Tanjug.”

If their was no truth to this story, what does Albania and Albanian prosecutor have to hide. "

Albania is a sovereign country and the Serbian prosecutor has no jurisdiction in Albania, nor can he give orders or issue demands to the Albanian Chief Prosecutor. Nor does the ICTY (International Criminal Tribunal for ex-Yugoslavia) in Hague have any jurisdiction whatsoever in Albania, so Albania has already given up a lot by allowing the Hague prosecutors to conduct an investigation in its territory to begin with. Such an investigation came up with nothing however.

The Serb War Crimes prosecutor knows this very well, as he knows that this case and such allegations have absolutely no legs to stand on. He knows very well that keeping this "story" in the news is nothing more than a political game at the expense of Kosova's war of independence, and by extension against world's recognition of this independence. So why should Albania play along and be part of Serbia's propagandistic offensive against their own ethnic kin, and against itself first of all? And for what? To convince hardline Serb nationalists, who still to this day deny the Serb atrocities against Kosovar civilians, and their forced exodus of biblical proportions that have been well documented by the entire world?

The day when Serbia allows Albanian prosecutors to conduct investigations in Serbia on the fate of the missing Kosovar civilians, should be the day when Serbia might have a right to ask for the same favor from their Albanian counterparts.

"The authorities in Tirana will not allow Serbian War Crimes Prosecutor Vladimir Vukčević to carry out an investigation into the existence of a clinic in the Albanian village of Gur"

That's right,you will not be allowed to wonder around in Albania to look for something until you open ur own doors for As to ivestigate the ovens and masive graves around Belgrade,it's very simple,
no need to get upset about it.
thanks

With so many Internationals present at that time in Northern Albania, do you really think this could've happened? I wonder why The Hague forensic scientists never came up with a crime related conclusion. Does Serbia want Mr. Salih Berisha to go to the Hague Tribunal next? This sounds to me very absurd. One thing I know for sure that the truth will always be revealed no matter how long it takes. This is an ongoing Serbian propaganda against Albania to try and delay Albania's membership to the EU. In Serbia's best interest is to send back the exhumed bodies of K-Albanians from Batajnica, Surchin, and other mass graves. This way their loved ones can bury them properly and have a tombstone they can visit. I've never seen a picture of a Serbian family massacred but I've seen over thousand K-Albanian families with their brains blown up and scattered all over the place.

bgnanon, your are either missing the point or are intentionally ignoring the political motivations and intentions behind this so-called investigation that is based on allegations on a book which bases its allegations on Belgrade tabloids. The Hague (funny how Serbs fluctuate on international law) quite clearly marked this allegation as baseless yet it is in Serbia's interest to propagate as truth these allegations, and we all know for what effect.

And speaking of allowing Albania carry out its own investigation in Belgrade about the whereabouts of missing Albanians, if you Serbs feel queasy about it, why not let the ICJ do such a thing, giving them all the documentation and evidence Belgrade withheld from the Hague Tribunal.

"They killed 400 hundered and
maybe saved 1000 lives" This has got to be the most wicked and ignorant statement ever posted.What an insult to the families who have lost their loved ones, a total and utter disregard to human life shame on you.

It would take a miracle to find any evidence now. Enough time has passed for all the evidence to be destroyed.

Perhaps God will produce a miracle. We can only pray for that.

This should've been investigated much sooner. Carla waited till all the evidence was probably destroyed before she spoke about this. Shame on her for not forcing this issue sooner.

Albanian authorities will not give any assistance to Serbia. I know I sound negative, but we have to prepare ourselves for the worst. If any evidence is found that will be a plus.

Some new snippets of information here.

The albanian owners of the infamous 'yellow house' have revised their 'story' that the house was never painted yellow. Seems that they now 'remember' painting a 'yellow strip' around the bottom of the building for a wedding - seemingly after these alleged atrocities took place, but before del Ponte visited in 2004.

Curious that they should 'remember' this just now & especially so given that del Ponte's investigation found traces of yellow paint at the bases of the walls - so owners 'new story' had to 'explain' earlier 'discrepancy'.

And this makes an interesting parallel to the albanian owners earlier 'revision' of another 'story' - when Abdulah Katuqi initially claimed that blood splatter found in a room in the 'yellow house' were due to his wife having delivered babies in that room. Turns out that she said it happened elsewhere whereupon the owner changed his 'story' & now 'claimed' blood traces were due to animal carcases being butchered.

Well, one thing's for sure - there was certainly butchery going on in that house.

Other new bit is this 'documentation' the B92 investigative team claims to have seen which apparently shows albanian PM Berisha ordering the destruction of any possible evidence pertaining to the albanian organ-extracion trade.

And together with the assertion that Berisha was under pressure from Haradinaj, will be interesting to see what comes of this.


ben:
Is a pity that these snippets of evidence (circumstantial or otherwise), cannot be 'excised' from the public domain with the same ease that albanian KLA criminals apparently did with the organs from their victims isn't it?

Very sad.


'A' said:
> This is a typical example of Serbian revisionism.
And is crystal clear from the above just who it is who is engaged in 'revisionism'.


Wake up:
Is pretty clear just what it is that B92 is saying - see above. But do agree that B92 needs to expand on this.

As for that 'poor' albanian family, don't recall any mention of 30 special forces police storming their premises. Another of the old man's 'stories' perhaps?

And whatever else they may or may not be, somehow doubt that the word 'poor' quite cuts it.

"The day when Serbia allows Albanian prosecutors to conduct investigations in Serbia on the fate of the missing Kosovar civilians, should be the day when Serbia might have a right to ask for the same favor from their Albanian counterparts."
(Adrian Gashi, 28 October 2008 19:00)

Alright -- i just read this B92 "update" and 32 comments, and now is my turn :-) i basically agree with... Adrian. and yes, i have been pretty consistent about it. if you really care about the missing, then the relevant parties need to sit down (at a table, a chinese restaurant, i really don't care) and come up with a plan for discovering the fate of the missing. ALL the missing, or as many as possible.

for those who oppose such an idea, i suspect that you are only interested in making hay of these "developments" and scoring your political points. so -- who will stand up for this open proposition, floated by adrian (with your permission)and myself, to strongly work on all fronts to discover the truth? Let's hear from you, please. and speak clearly, frisco is a bit far from the balkans.

as for your proposal, mr. ataman (and i did already respond to you!?) sorry -- No one gets to shut down the hague, for any reason. no excuses! Now, if you want to try to redirect the profits from Carla's book to, say, civilian victims of war, or needy children in the balkans, well -- let's talk!

thank you, chvala and felamenderet.

roberto
robertoruss@yahoo.com

I think the way B92 is reporting this story is not entirely correct. The Albanian Attorney General did agree to cooperate in any investigations, but she could not and she does not even have the authority to grant authorisation to foreign investigators to conduct anything in Albanian territory. That's not up to her, because that's what the Albanian Constitution says. Then there is the smal complication of the investigators being Serbs, which would be politically suicidal for any Albanian government to agree to. I guess it would the same for the Serb government if Albanian investigators asked for permission to carry out investigations in Serbian soil. The only solution would be for international investigators to take over the case, which I guess is what what Del Ponte should have done all along instead of just talking about this.

And by way of clarification: when is Haradinaj supposed to have asked Berisha to clear up the evidence? These guys hate each other with a passion, and were sworn enemies for a long time. and besides, Berisha only became prime minister in 2005.

Carla was not a friend of the Serbs and in my view the fact that she has raised this issue speaks volumes, she must have a conscience at last. as for there being no evidence -of course there is- every recipient of a Serb organ is carrying the evidence in their bodies- look for people that had organ donations at this time especially rich foriegners. Truth will eventually out even in the corrupt, manipulative USA and its foolish friends.

Roberto,

I don't think here is anyone who would be opposed to the discovery of the missing. We can discuss it but how far it can be implemented is an other question. There could be some serious obstacles.

Of course, no one will shut Hague down. It will continue with judgements no side is happy. I did not want it "shut down" as you write. I clearly said: suspend, investigate, clean up, than continue. The word "suspend" means: "TEMPORARILY CEASE THE ACTIVITY".

Sorry, Roberto - this is my profession, this is why I am "ATA Man". If there is an error during ATA drive transfer, you should suspend the I/O, investigate the cause of the error, correct what possible and if possible, resume the I/O. I am writing ATA drivers, so I know.

I use precisely the same terminology to the Hague. But I have absolutely no illusions about it.

About Carla... well, ask her. She was cheered by Albanians for so long, now they love to hate her. But don't think Serbs cheer her now.

The most important: this is - as you may know - not Bay Area. Even in the Bay Area I strongly prefer Viet to any Chinese. The best IMO is the Vung Tau in Milpitas (NOT San Jose). Their specialty is the catfish soup with pineapples.

Eating at Chinese place in Belgrade, Budapest or Prishtina means:

a) you don't know, what you are doing
b) you don't care about your stomach
c) you don't care about your wallet

(or all above). A road-side qebaptoria or kafana is (hygienically) a much safer bet than most Chinese restaurants here. The ones which are good enough and hygienic enough are not affordable even by SF Bay Area standards.

Naturally the Albanians want to cover-up any involvement in organ smuggling. The United Nations & WCJ should step into this matter.

This is really funny. How they try to turn history. Now they are the victims, they were killed and they never killed anyone

Ben - they weren't just 'soldiers' but apparently civilians, including women. I believe that there is some substance to this story and this sorry trade certainly takes place in Europe.

And despite your childish goading to all Serbs, I am not Serbian, so others do believe them too.

Peggy: "This should've been investigated much sooner. Carla waited till all the evidence was probably destroyed before she spoke about this. Shame on her for not forcing this issue sooner."

I agree completely. Poor people who have this horrendous sort of fate, and their poor families who have to live with that knowledge.

If the Albanian prosecutor's position is that only the Hague can investigate, then I don't understand why Rama agreed to meet with the Serbian side in the first place. It seems like such a waste of time.

I personally would prefer that the Serbian prosecutors be allowed to carry out the investigation, while being monitored by their Albanian counterparts to ensure "fair play" so to speak.

Whatever the outcome of the investigation, it will help close a chapter in our countries' histories.

If the albanians have nothing to hide then why not allow inspectors the opportunity to search for evidence? The albanians have been up to something unfortunately they have had all the time in the world to get rid of all the evidence. But the truth will come out sooner or later.

“Albanian Chief Prosecutor Ina Rama rejected Serbia's demand to examine the accusations Karla del Ponte had put forward in her book, the media said, according to Tanjug.”

If their was no truth to this story, what does Albania and Albanian prosecutor have to hide. One would think that they would be glad to assist Serbian prosecutor in this case to exonerate Albanian people and their government. Obviously something terrible has happen.
But truth will prevail as always.

If it was an organised crime then should be investigated and bring to justice those criminals!
But the question is the big IF!!!
I for one would like that all Governments to work together and find the remains of loved ones who are still missing!

Us K.Albanians were not angels in the war,but all the World knows who started the killings,rapings,etc!!!
So I am for more investigations but please don't try to forget that us K.Albanians were the victims and it will take some more time to forget that "bad dream"!!!

So, the only solution would be to send a neutral team, i.e. the Hague investigators. But wait, they've already conducted their investigations and the Albanians (KLA etc...) have been cleared.??? How? No enough evidences...witnesses are disappearing? Good for you Ben.And who doesn't know that all show at Hague is always anti-serbian? Since Holbrook,Albright,CIA is backing you ,this show will go on and it must be stoped.

This makes me sick! And it's all thanks to america.

The Hague never did fully investigate these alleged crimes. Where did you see that they fully investigated these allegations? No full investigation was ever carried through. Second, where is it in anyone's interest to not investigate these alleged crimes fully. If I were Albanian of any type, whether living in Kosovo, Albania, or the US, I'd want nothing to do with anyone conducting such horrors. Thus, I'd want a full investigation. Many American people have for instance done horrible things in the past, such as serial killers. I have nothing against these people going to jail. Just because a person is American doesn't mean I have to protect him. Stop protecting everyone Albanian; protect the good Albanian people not the bad ones.

Carla waited till all the evidence was probably destroyed before she spoke about this. Shame on her for not forcing this issue sooner.
(Peggy, 28 October 2008 11:52)

It was probably even dirtier. I would suspend all Hague Tribunal activity and begin an investigation from inside. The guilty should be arrested and tried. Once it is cleared, Hague can continue.

Ben, smells bad or what?If you want to live in just society ,you need to fight against crime not supporting it.When the serbs(criminals) are wanted even dead ones you rejoice but when the direction turn to albanian site you start yelling...I wouldn't like to see you loosing your organs being alive!Ataman is right. All this show at the Haague must stop, be investigating from inside and all those judges,prosecutors who had some evidences,proves about such crimes must find a place in the prison.US will not be backing you endlessly when more evidences will come to surface.Never,nobody could ever destroy all the traks of their crimes! Sooner or later they will face justice. If humans will close their eyes to this, there is SOMEONE who is not partial...

Who here is suprised at albanians refusal to investigate gruesome way to support UCK.
Where is that Arab who was mad that that he got kidneys from a Christian Serbian man.
A lot would come to light, so fear that albanians are feeling,will not go away for as long as we don`t get answers on what happen to this people.

It is very important that this investigation has started.

“Albania is a sovereign country and the Serbian prosecutor has no jurisdiction in Albania, nor can he give orders or issue demands to the Albanian Chief Prosecutor.”

Serbia is not demanding anything, it’s a moral duty of every decent democratic law abiding country to arrest and prosecute criminals, no mater who or what nationalities there are.
Nobody is dinning that Albania is a sovereign country, (quite different from Kosovo) and that Serbia has some kind of jurisdiction in Albania.
It was not Serbia that initiated investigation into human organ trafficking in Albania, it was Carla Del Ponte. She was at one time one of most favorite people with you Albanians. As long she was only prosecuting Serbs. Now that she has accused Albanians, she is stupid and irrelevant somehow in Serbia’s favor in this ridicules thing called “independent Kosovo”.

“The day when Serbia allows Albanian prosecutors to conduct investigations in Serbia on the fate of the missing Kosovar civilians, should be the day when Serbia might have a right to ask for the same favor from their Albanian counterparts.”


Why would Serbia allow Albania to do anything for Kosovo citizens. Kosovo citizens are Serbian citizens. Serbia is quite capable of taking care of its citizens. Allegations are this horrible crime was on Albanian soil and involved Serbian citizens. Albania has a moral obligation not only to Serbia, but to rest of the civilized world to cooperate in this investigation. Otherwise until thy do, everybody will assume they are hiding the truth.
I just hope this whole idea of organ trafficking is not true. For the sake of everybody involved. Because repercussions could be huge.

Ben said "
Us K.Albanians were not angels in the war,but all the World knows who started the killings,rapings,etc!!!
So I am for more investigations but please don't try to forget that us K.Albanians were the victims and it will take some more time to forget that "bad dream"!!!
(louie, 28 October 2008 14:44) "

Yes ben the world was fed absolute lies through CNN which is controlled by america.

Tell me ben are you for real when you claim Serbs started the killings raping etc first? Why do you think the Serb army went in to KiM? You think they went in for no reason to start killing people?

ben do you really know what uck did prior to Serb amry's arrival? I will remind you: kidnappings, murder, torture, rape, of civillians, murder of police, terrorits attacks at cafes (bombs). THIS IS WHY SERB ARMY WAS SENT IN!!!

Frankly I'm surprised by the over-the-top response by some Albanian posters here.

I simply don't understand why the defensiveness. A man confident of innocence has no need to get hysterical about an issue. Quite the contrary, any investigation, provided its fair, should be more than welcome. Were I Albanian I'd jump at the opportunity to put this story to bed so Del Ponte or Serbs cannot bash me on the head with it and discredit my country into the bargain.

I'm forced to consider the possibility that the reason some Albanians reject any investigation is that behind the bravado, within themselves they are fearful the story might be true.

But hell say the story is true, be human, face up to this potentially ugly fact and sympathise with the victims.

Albanian posters are queing up here to deny and yet at the same time they get so upset and angry when Serbs do the same thing. Its hypocricy.

Were it up to me I'd open the book in Serbia. I'd have all bodies returned, solve all crimes, arrest and punish all those that carried them out.

The argument thus is not about pathetic denial. The argument is about investigating an alleged war crime and bringing justice to the pontential vicims of that alleged war crime.

Have some humanity for pity's sake.

Asim TIA & Adrian Gashi, your point that Berisha and Haradinaj were not Prime Minister's of Albania and Kosovo at the same doesn't mean that Haradinaj was able to order him to destroy evidence later. He certainly wields plenty of power despite no official position.

'bgnanon, your are either missing the point..'

Oh am I? My apologies, I thought this was about representing the interests of the disappeared and kidnapped.

Oh no I have to look at this as an ethnic problem - as nationalists do.

The land is more important than the people eh Art?

«PLUS almost ALL security and intelligence agencies of Europe and US were there»!?? Have you ever heard secret services or CIA,bla-bla to be angels of truth? I guess you know that there are a lot of«cleaners» .To destroy the evidences is not so hard.If there were so many is good to ask yourself:what is the purpose? Almost after 10 years Dini , Ratmane start talking about american justice and carte blanche for Serbia. For sure more will come out.I'm not pro-serbian or pro-albanian...I AM PRO-JUSTICE!

probably Belgrade has more information on these horrible albanian crimes, but whithholds it in order to unveil it when it is a better moment for that.

the ICJ will be quite interested in the material provided by serbian prosecutors.

as for the ( expected ) denial of our dear friends...:

you are ashaming yourselves, ...and even trying to pull the focus from albanian crimes by simply saying that albanian war-victims were slaughtered because their organs were needed...

"I told you that in my opinion this is a case of international organized crime,” said War Crimes Prosecutor Vladimir Vukčević." ...!!!

Even though apparently B92 "has never heard this argument", the prosecutor Vukcevic is saying something which has been a rumor a long time ago and which most probably (according to the most informed sources) represents the truth.

This means that the organ trafficking in Albania (during 1999, since there were absolutely no reports or allegations for later than 1999) does not have anything to do with UCK (KLA), Serbs or any Albanian politician.

The rumors (I am talking here about serious sources, every serious journalists knows this) say that it was a typical case of paying and buying organs from Albanian citizens, involving not only Albanian, but also Greek, Russian and Pakistani mafia.

Now, this has nothing to do with Serbs and the KLA, but the rumors go on in saying that the Serbian state is trying everything to use this as an argument and to do everything possible to spin the story as one of KLA vs Serbs.

It sounds to me as if Vukcevic has recognized this. I bet he will now have many problems with official Serbian propaganda machinery!!

What on earth is funny about the loss of human life?? It is frightening how anyone in their right mind can find this amusing. This is NOT about scoring political points. It IS about justice for victims and their families. Surely it is in the intersts of all mankind that this investigation of war crimes brings to light what happened to those who perished. Those who fail to see this need to adress their own narrow-minded views and racial intolerance.

How many houses were burned in Kosova? 150.000? how many people were killed in Kosova? Around 10.000? Serbs should apology for those crimes. There were crimes from both parties but you can not compare the wolf with a cat. This is the true story. I do not understand what in the world Kosova Albanian politicians are waiting for before they sue Serbia for Genocide in Haga. Just shame on Albanian politics for been so peaceful. How many missing people are in Serbian Jails or Dead? 3000? B 92 please respect my opinion .

I as an albanian have seen some very good comments from both camps. I realize that there are a lot of forums where Albanias and Serbs just talked trash to each other, but here at B 92 at least they try to respect more each other and use facts and logics other that hate. This is a website that has made a change and has shown that dialogue can make things better. It is sad but in my personal opion is see true peace between serbs and albanians only when Kosovo and Bosnia is split in ethnic group. I do not support it but only then Serbs and Albanias will be somehow satisfied and will be more respectful to each other. This is sad but is the truth at least on my opinion.

this exemplaric case shows the state of mind of Serbia ... when ex-BG-commanded soldiers disappeared, then they were "kidnapped" !! wow !! and there was a center, where all the kidnapped ones were brought to ... and there their organs were "harvested"

okay. why are the lists of the disappeared are not public ?? it would be the first step to find out, how many are missed and what are their names, in which units and where they were fighting. let's see some facts from the Serbian side and check some names, before this media HOAX will continue!

this would mean: journalistic work in form recherche, instead of pure speculation based on rumours. for one decade we have never seen any facts in this case. why?