Finnish pathologist Helena Ranta says OSCE mission chief to Kosovo William Walker claimed that Serbian forces had massacred Albanian civilians in Račak in 1999.
you're right, the US has been bringing Albanian corpses, actually their remain, to Merdare so that their mothers, wives, children, and beloved ones pick them up nine years after the war. Oh, also yeah, the US reached agreements with the Red Cross to bring to Merdare remains of Albanian civilians. !!!?
"Yeah sure, a freezer truck full of dead bodies was found floating in Thames River and the victims were Serb civillians killed by the BNP...
(BH_NYC, 25 October 2008 17:24)"
well, my dear BH, it seems like the smog over there in NYC has blurred your consciousness...
if somebody wanted to make a truck full of corpses dissappear, he/they probably wouldn´t have positioned it in knee-high water in order to make it visible for every moron walking by...
' so, our dear friends may go on believing in "massacres" and "racism" and "ethnic cleansing"... but as long as the hard facts say something different, I don´t pay much attention to their phantasies.
(Jovan, 25 October 2008 15:33) '
Yeah sure, a freezer truck full of dead bodies was found floating in Thames River and the victims were Serb civillians killed by the BNP...
that´s what I have been saying for a long time now...
our dear friends live in a strange state of denial, if some tiny little article serves their greater-albanian interests, it is of course the truth, approved and far from speculation,... if it is something that indicates they are wrong - it is serbian propaganda, it´s that simple for them!
they even go that far to openly claim to be the descendants of the illyrians, what is, frankly said, quite ridiculous, but it helps them feel like "somebody" ...something they desperately need, since the Albanians did not show up very successfully in the balkans-history.
that´s in fact the reason, why I always say that they are being duped.
they believe to have "friends" in America, but in reality they are being exploited.
and times will change, and then who´s gonna help them?
as for the article:
there are serious doubts about the socalled Račak-incident, since there are too many indications towards a hoax, not only Mrs.Ranta´s remarks, but also those of a german OSCE-observer who openly testities in front of a camera, that he has been there immediately after the shoot-out and helped the serbian security-forces transport the corpses to a "gathering-point" and that there was no "massacre"...
so, our dear friends may go on believing in "massacres" and "racism" and "ethnic cleansing"... but as long as the hard facts say something different, I don´t pay much attention to their phantasies.
oh and just to explain what i mean by "paranoia" - in comments about the first article the pro-albanian posters were all saying how ranta doesn't make sense, how she wants controversy because of better sales for her book etc. now that they realise that she did not imply that the massacre didn't happen (nor that it did, mind) she is cool again. the utter failure to understand the real implication of what she is saying (that human right abuses and massacres may have been cinically exploited by a certain country to intervene in the conflict) is astonishing (you can see this implication without agreeing with it, mind). human beings have this remarcable ability to see only what they want to see. sometimes that needs to be overcome, though.
based on no facts whatsoever the writer of the article was implying that somehow Ranta held the beleif that Racak was a hoax but failed to explain how he/she came to that conclusion
(BH_NYC, 23 October 2008 20:04)
the writer failed to explain that conclusion because he/she did not make such implications at all. the implications of what ranta said are different and i explained them in my previous comment. this was obvious to me from the first article already. but some people are just too keen on painting a black and white picture (and are quite paranoid about it and see all kinds of implications everywhere) and while this has no negative influence on people who don't live in the region, the people who do live there will be affected and i exlpained that as well. it's easy to understand, really. if one wants to.
What do you accept a newspaper that the Tittle is in “” They are acting as if the massacre never happened. The rest of the comments here are totally absourd. They were KLA dressed in civilian uniforms and collateral damage. Then so were the people that were killed in Belgrade. Collateral damage and MP dressed in civilian clothing.
It was a dirty uncivil war. The KLA fought amongst their own innocent citizens instead of clearing them out during battles. Although sad, collateral damage is inevitable in this situation. The Ranta report showed the victims were shot from distance, read: not executed at close range. No doubt the rest of the bodies were KLA soldiers dressed up in civilian clothing.
Albanians are attacking the very same person who helped purpotrate the myth which lead to the war, and which THE SAME PERSON now admits was false.
So let me understand this. You like the convineint version of the story because it suits you, regardless of the fact that such version was missleading and false?
That just reiterates that truth is of no importance for some, unless it serves them a purpose.
(malcolm x, 23 October 2008 15:09)
'actually yesterday you said that the story doesn't make much sense'
The article was written in two parts as I said yesterday. 1. Mrs Ranta claimed that she was pressured to make her statement more convincing. 2. based on no facts whatsoever the writer of the article was implying that somehow Ranta held the beleif that Racak was a hoax but failed to explain how he/she came to that conclusion, which is why the story didnt make much (any for that matter) sense. I called the second part a speculation but I didnt contest the first one, same as today. Easy to understand it really. Well, if one wants to, that is.
It's not sure what this lady has said or what her real intentions are. She might have a personal grudge with Walker but this is not the way to resolve it. As a professional she should know that she cannot deny what she ultimately claimed to be true earlier, during Milosevic trial.
In the testimony in the link, she fiercely denies any pressure from Walker or anyone, when Milosevic tried to manipulate the story. Now she is swallowing her own words?!
How serious can someone with this attitude be taken. Walker's character or his temper towards "women" might leave a lot to desire for ladies like Ranta but it's a grave mistake to politicize an incident that seem to have deeply touched this lady for almost a decade.
Unless her wordings are blown out of proportion.
Either way, if Serbia is counting on Carla and Ranta to save their "heartland" it's just too late for that.
After reading her report and her testimony at the Hague. She found that 1 boy, 1 woman, several elders, all unarmed dead in a gully. It was apparent they were killed in the clothes they were wearing, there was no gun residue found on the clothes to indicate any of them had fired weapons. There was money found in the pockets so it did not appear that they had been searched after their death to remove weapons. Body parts blown off were found underneath the bodies confirmed by DNA. Bullets are found in the ground underneath the bodies to indicate the victims were shot where they lay. Shell casings are found aound the perimeter of the area where the bodies are found.
As an expeert she could not determine this was a massacre. I certainly hope no one is paying her presently for her expertise. Could explain why she has to write a sensational book.
He was apsolutely right to do so. How can you not call it massacre killing with brutality a woman and a child??
(xheffo, 23 October 2008 11:20)
It's new for me, throwing pencils at female employees is considered "kosher" according Kanun. Great news, so if I will have Albanian ladies working for me and if I am not satisfied what they doing, I can throw a mouse, a keyboard, a PCI card at them... or maybe a laptop if the disagreement is more serious.
I did not see flying mice and laptops out of the buildings in KosMet during my trip probably because it was on Sunday. Next time I try during the week so I can pick up some good stuff. Maybe a MacBook Pro?
Well, this is exactly what I expected and what I said yesterday. Mrs Ranta only says that W. Walker made her change the wording of her report (which didn’t alter the reports findings anyway) the rest is just speculation, usual Serbian propaganda.
(BH_NYC, 23 October 2008 11:27)
actually yesterday you said that the story doesn't make much sense. now that you understood what ranta is saying you fail to understand the implications of her story. why was she so much under pressure to change the wording even if the findings are untouched? you are mentioning the right word - propaganda. just replace "serbian" with "american" and you have the answer.
on the other hand serbs are also too keen to show that the racak massacre was staged that they take it for granted that all the people killed there were kla soldiers dressed as civilians. i guess that's what happens when attrocities are used for political purposes. on one side sense of victiomisation, on the other outright denial. the result is hatred. and i don't know if anyone profits from this, but people of the former yugoslavia certainly don't.
Not so much a relevation as much ado for nothing.
She admitts that these were Kosovo Albanians, she cannot be sure whether they were combatants or not and is not so sure whether the killing of the 45 including three women and a boy constitutes a massacre or not. I'm enlightened.
However the one of the Finnish forensic expert wrote article in forensic journal that from the study of corpses only one person was killed from the close range. Same source Helsinki Sanomat.
Well, this is exactly what I expected and what I said yesterday. Mrs Ranta only says that W. Walker made her change the wording of her report (which didn’t alter the reports findings anyway) the rest is just speculation, usual Serbian propaganda.
What angered him most was that I refused to use the word massacre and say who stood behind what happened in Račak. He was terribly angry about that. He threw a pencil at me,“ Ranta recalls.
He was apsolutely right to do so. How can you not call it massacre killing with brutality a woman and a child??
However the one of the Finnish forensic expert wrote article in forensic journal that from the study of corpses only one person was killed from the close range. Same source Helsinki Sanomat.
What angered him most was that I refused to use the word massacre and say who stood behind what happened in Račak. He was terribly angry about that. He threw a pencil at me,“ Ranta recalls.
He was apsolutely right to do so. How can you not call it massacre killing with brutality a woman and a child??
Well, this is exactly what I expected and what I said yesterday. Mrs Ranta only says that W. Walker made her change the wording of her report (which didn’t alter the reports findings anyway) the rest is just speculation, usual Serbian propaganda.
After reading her report and her testimony at the Hague. She found that 1 boy, 1 woman, several elders, all unarmed dead in a gully. It was apparent they were killed in the clothes they were wearing, there was no gun residue found on the clothes to indicate any of them had fired weapons. There was money found in the pockets so it did not appear that they had been searched after their death to remove weapons. Body parts blown off were found underneath the bodies confirmed by DNA. Bullets are found in the ground underneath the bodies to indicate the victims were shot where they lay. Shell casings are found aound the perimeter of the area where the bodies are found.
As an expeert she could not determine this was a massacre. I certainly hope no one is paying her presently for her expertise. Could explain why she has to write a sensational book.
Not so much a relevation as much ado for nothing.
She admitts that these were Kosovo Albanians, she cannot be sure whether they were combatants or not and is not so sure whether the killing of the 45 including three women and a boy constitutes a massacre or not. I'm enlightened.
He was apsolutely right to do so. How can you not call it massacre killing with brutality a woman and a child??
(xheffo, 23 October 2008 11:20)
It's new for me, throwing pencils at female employees is considered "kosher" according Kanun. Great news, so if I will have Albanian ladies working for me and if I am not satisfied what they doing, I can throw a mouse, a keyboard, a PCI card at them... or maybe a laptop if the disagreement is more serious.
I did not see flying mice and laptops out of the buildings in KosMet during my trip probably because it was on Sunday. Next time I try during the week so I can pick up some good stuff. Maybe a MacBook Pro?
Well, this is exactly what I expected and what I said yesterday. Mrs Ranta only says that W. Walker made her change the wording of her report (which didn’t alter the reports findings anyway) the rest is just speculation, usual Serbian propaganda.
(BH_NYC, 23 October 2008 11:27)
actually yesterday you said that the story doesn't make much sense. now that you understood what ranta is saying you fail to understand the implications of her story. why was she so much under pressure to change the wording even if the findings are untouched? you are mentioning the right word - propaganda. just replace "serbian" with "american" and you have the answer.
on the other hand serbs are also too keen to show that the racak massacre was staged that they take it for granted that all the people killed there were kla soldiers dressed as civilians. i guess that's what happens when attrocities are used for political purposes. on one side sense of victiomisation, on the other outright denial. the result is hatred. and i don't know if anyone profits from this, but people of the former yugoslavia certainly don't.
(malcolm x, 23 October 2008 15:09)
'actually yesterday you said that the story doesn't make much sense'
The article was written in two parts as I said yesterday. 1. Mrs Ranta claimed that she was pressured to make her statement more convincing. 2. based on no facts whatsoever the writer of the article was implying that somehow Ranta held the beleif that Racak was a hoax but failed to explain how he/she came to that conclusion, which is why the story didnt make much (any for that matter) sense. I called the second part a speculation but I didnt contest the first one, same as today. Easy to understand it really. Well, if one wants to, that is.
Albanians are attacking the very same person who helped purpotrate the myth which lead to the war, and which THE SAME PERSON now admits was false.
So let me understand this. You like the convineint version of the story because it suits you, regardless of the fact that such version was missleading and false?
That just reiterates that truth is of no importance for some, unless it serves them a purpose.
based on no facts whatsoever the writer of the article was implying that somehow Ranta held the beleif that Racak was a hoax but failed to explain how he/she came to that conclusion
(BH_NYC, 23 October 2008 20:04)
the writer failed to explain that conclusion because he/she did not make such implications at all. the implications of what ranta said are different and i explained them in my previous comment. this was obvious to me from the first article already. but some people are just too keen on painting a black and white picture (and are quite paranoid about it and see all kinds of implications everywhere) and while this has no negative influence on people who don't live in the region, the people who do live there will be affected and i exlpained that as well. it's easy to understand, really. if one wants to.
oh and just to explain what i mean by "paranoia" - in comments about the first article the pro-albanian posters were all saying how ranta doesn't make sense, how she wants controversy because of better sales for her book etc. now that they realise that she did not imply that the massacre didn't happen (nor that it did, mind) she is cool again. the utter failure to understand the real implication of what she is saying (that human right abuses and massacres may have been cinically exploited by a certain country to intervene in the conflict) is astonishing (you can see this implication without agreeing with it, mind). human beings have this remarcable ability to see only what they want to see. sometimes that needs to be overcome, though.
that´s what I have been saying for a long time now...
our dear friends live in a strange state of denial, if some tiny little article serves their greater-albanian interests, it is of course the truth, approved and far from speculation,... if it is something that indicates they are wrong - it is serbian propaganda, it´s that simple for them!
they even go that far to openly claim to be the descendants of the illyrians, what is, frankly said, quite ridiculous, but it helps them feel like "somebody" ...something they desperately need, since the Albanians did not show up very successfully in the balkans-history.
that´s in fact the reason, why I always say that they are being duped.
they believe to have "friends" in America, but in reality they are being exploited.
and times will change, and then who´s gonna help them?
as for the article:
there are serious doubts about the socalled Račak-incident, since there are too many indications towards a hoax, not only Mrs.Ranta´s remarks, but also those of a german OSCE-observer who openly testities in front of a camera, that he has been there immediately after the shoot-out and helped the serbian security-forces transport the corpses to a "gathering-point" and that there was no "massacre"...
so, our dear friends may go on believing in "massacres" and "racism" and "ethnic cleansing"... but as long as the hard facts say something different, I don´t pay much attention to their phantasies.
' so, our dear friends may go on believing in "massacres" and "racism" and "ethnic cleansing"... but as long as the hard facts say something different, I don´t pay much attention to their phantasies.
(Jovan, 25 October 2008 15:33) '
Yeah sure, a freezer truck full of dead bodies was found floating in Thames River and the victims were Serb civillians killed by the BNP...
"Yeah sure, a freezer truck full of dead bodies was found floating in Thames River and the victims were Serb civillians killed by the BNP...
(BH_NYC, 25 October 2008 17:24)"
well, my dear BH, it seems like the smog over there in NYC has blurred your consciousness...
if somebody wanted to make a truck full of corpses dissappear, he/they probably wouldn´t have positioned it in knee-high water in order to make it visible for every moron walking by...
you're right, the US has been bringing Albanian corpses, actually their remain, to Merdare so that their mothers, wives, children, and beloved ones pick them up nine years after the war. Oh, also yeah, the US reached agreements with the Red Cross to bring to Merdare remains of Albanian civilians. !!!?
It's not sure what this lady has said or what her real intentions are. She might have a personal grudge with Walker but this is not the way to resolve it. As a professional she should know that she cannot deny what she ultimately claimed to be true earlier, during Milosevic trial.
In the testimony in the link, she fiercely denies any pressure from Walker or anyone, when Milosevic tried to manipulate the story. Now she is swallowing her own words?!
How serious can someone with this attitude be taken. Walker's character or his temper towards "women" might leave a lot to desire for ladies like Ranta but it's a grave mistake to politicize an incident that seem to have deeply touched this lady for almost a decade.
Unless her wordings are blown out of proportion.
Either way, if Serbia is counting on Carla and Ranta to save their "heartland" it's just too late for that.
It was a dirty uncivil war. The KLA fought amongst their own innocent citizens instead of clearing them out during battles. Although sad, collateral damage is inevitable in this situation. The Ranta report showed the victims were shot from distance, read: not executed at close range. No doubt the rest of the bodies were KLA soldiers dressed up in civilian clothing.
What do you accept a newspaper that the Tittle is in “” They are acting as if the massacre never happened. The rest of the comments here are totally absourd. They were KLA dressed in civilian uniforms and collateral damage. Then so were the people that were killed in Belgrade. Collateral damage and MP dressed in civilian clothing.
What angered him most was that I refused to use the word massacre and say who stood behind what happened in Račak. He was terribly angry about that. He threw a pencil at me,“ Ranta recalls.
He was apsolutely right to do so. How can you not call it massacre killing with brutality a woman and a child??
Well, this is exactly what I expected and what I said yesterday. Mrs Ranta only says that W. Walker made her change the wording of her report (which didn’t alter the reports findings anyway) the rest is just speculation, usual Serbian propaganda.
However the one of the Finnish forensic expert wrote article in forensic journal that from the study of corpses only one person was killed from the close range. Same source Helsinki Sanomat.
Not so much a relevation as much ado for nothing.
She admitts that these were Kosovo Albanians, she cannot be sure whether they were combatants or not and is not so sure whether the killing of the 45 including three women and a boy constitutes a massacre or not. I'm enlightened.
He was apsolutely right to do so. How can you not call it massacre killing with brutality a woman and a child??
(xheffo, 23 October 2008 11:20)
It's new for me, throwing pencils at female employees is considered "kosher" according Kanun. Great news, so if I will have Albanian ladies working for me and if I am not satisfied what they doing, I can throw a mouse, a keyboard, a PCI card at them... or maybe a laptop if the disagreement is more serious.
I did not see flying mice and laptops out of the buildings in KosMet during my trip probably because it was on Sunday. Next time I try during the week so I can pick up some good stuff. Maybe a MacBook Pro?
After reading her report and her testimony at the Hague. She found that 1 boy, 1 woman, several elders, all unarmed dead in a gully. It was apparent they were killed in the clothes they were wearing, there was no gun residue found on the clothes to indicate any of them had fired weapons. There was money found in the pockets so it did not appear that they had been searched after their death to remove weapons. Body parts blown off were found underneath the bodies confirmed by DNA. Bullets are found in the ground underneath the bodies to indicate the victims were shot where they lay. Shell casings are found aound the perimeter of the area where the bodies are found.
As an expeert she could not determine this was a massacre. I certainly hope no one is paying her presently for her expertise. Could explain why she has to write a sensational book.
you're right, the US has been bringing Albanian corpses, actually their remain, to Merdare so that their mothers, wives, children, and beloved ones pick them up nine years after the war. Oh, also yeah, the US reached agreements with the Red Cross to bring to Merdare remains of Albanian civilians. !!!?
Well, this is exactly what I expected and what I said yesterday. Mrs Ranta only says that W. Walker made her change the wording of her report (which didn’t alter the reports findings anyway) the rest is just speculation, usual Serbian propaganda.
(BH_NYC, 23 October 2008 11:27)
actually yesterday you said that the story doesn't make much sense. now that you understood what ranta is saying you fail to understand the implications of her story. why was she so much under pressure to change the wording even if the findings are untouched? you are mentioning the right word - propaganda. just replace "serbian" with "american" and you have the answer.
on the other hand serbs are also too keen to show that the racak massacre was staged that they take it for granted that all the people killed there were kla soldiers dressed as civilians. i guess that's what happens when attrocities are used for political purposes. on one side sense of victiomisation, on the other outright denial. the result is hatred. and i don't know if anyone profits from this, but people of the former yugoslavia certainly don't.
(malcolm x, 23 October 2008 15:09)
'actually yesterday you said that the story doesn't make much sense'
The article was written in two parts as I said yesterday. 1. Mrs Ranta claimed that she was pressured to make her statement more convincing. 2. based on no facts whatsoever the writer of the article was implying that somehow Ranta held the beleif that Racak was a hoax but failed to explain how he/she came to that conclusion, which is why the story didnt make much (any for that matter) sense. I called the second part a speculation but I didnt contest the first one, same as today. Easy to understand it really. Well, if one wants to, that is.
It's not sure what this lady has said or what her real intentions are. She might have a personal grudge with Walker but this is not the way to resolve it. As a professional she should know that she cannot deny what she ultimately claimed to be true earlier, during Milosevic trial.
In the testimony in the link, she fiercely denies any pressure from Walker or anyone, when Milosevic tried to manipulate the story. Now she is swallowing her own words?!
How serious can someone with this attitude be taken. Walker's character or his temper towards "women" might leave a lot to desire for ladies like Ranta but it's a grave mistake to politicize an incident that seem to have deeply touched this lady for almost a decade.
Unless her wordings are blown out of proportion.
Either way, if Serbia is counting on Carla and Ranta to save their "heartland" it's just too late for that.
Albanians are attacking the very same person who helped purpotrate the myth which lead to the war, and which THE SAME PERSON now admits was false.
So let me understand this. You like the convineint version of the story because it suits you, regardless of the fact that such version was missleading and false?
That just reiterates that truth is of no importance for some, unless it serves them a purpose.
It was a dirty uncivil war. The KLA fought amongst their own innocent citizens instead of clearing them out during battles. Although sad, collateral damage is inevitable in this situation. The Ranta report showed the victims were shot from distance, read: not executed at close range. No doubt the rest of the bodies were KLA soldiers dressed up in civilian clothing.
What do you accept a newspaper that the Tittle is in “” They are acting as if the massacre never happened. The rest of the comments here are totally absourd. They were KLA dressed in civilian uniforms and collateral damage. Then so were the people that were killed in Belgrade. Collateral damage and MP dressed in civilian clothing.
based on no facts whatsoever the writer of the article was implying that somehow Ranta held the beleif that Racak was a hoax but failed to explain how he/she came to that conclusion
(BH_NYC, 23 October 2008 20:04)
the writer failed to explain that conclusion because he/she did not make such implications at all. the implications of what ranta said are different and i explained them in my previous comment. this was obvious to me from the first article already. but some people are just too keen on painting a black and white picture (and are quite paranoid about it and see all kinds of implications everywhere) and while this has no negative influence on people who don't live in the region, the people who do live there will be affected and i exlpained that as well. it's easy to understand, really. if one wants to.
oh and just to explain what i mean by "paranoia" - in comments about the first article the pro-albanian posters were all saying how ranta doesn't make sense, how she wants controversy because of better sales for her book etc. now that they realise that she did not imply that the massacre didn't happen (nor that it did, mind) she is cool again. the utter failure to understand the real implication of what she is saying (that human right abuses and massacres may have been cinically exploited by a certain country to intervene in the conflict) is astonishing (you can see this implication without agreeing with it, mind). human beings have this remarcable ability to see only what they want to see. sometimes that needs to be overcome, though.
that´s what I have been saying for a long time now...
our dear friends live in a strange state of denial, if some tiny little article serves their greater-albanian interests, it is of course the truth, approved and far from speculation,... if it is something that indicates they are wrong - it is serbian propaganda, it´s that simple for them!
they even go that far to openly claim to be the descendants of the illyrians, what is, frankly said, quite ridiculous, but it helps them feel like "somebody" ...something they desperately need, since the Albanians did not show up very successfully in the balkans-history.
that´s in fact the reason, why I always say that they are being duped.
they believe to have "friends" in America, but in reality they are being exploited.
and times will change, and then who´s gonna help them?
as for the article:
there are serious doubts about the socalled Račak-incident, since there are too many indications towards a hoax, not only Mrs.Ranta´s remarks, but also those of a german OSCE-observer who openly testities in front of a camera, that he has been there immediately after the shoot-out and helped the serbian security-forces transport the corpses to a "gathering-point" and that there was no "massacre"...
so, our dear friends may go on believing in "massacres" and "racism" and "ethnic cleansing"... but as long as the hard facts say something different, I don´t pay much attention to their phantasies.
' so, our dear friends may go on believing in "massacres" and "racism" and "ethnic cleansing"... but as long as the hard facts say something different, I don´t pay much attention to their phantasies.
(Jovan, 25 October 2008 15:33) '
Yeah sure, a freezer truck full of dead bodies was found floating in Thames River and the victims were Serb civillians killed by the BNP...
"Yeah sure, a freezer truck full of dead bodies was found floating in Thames River and the victims were Serb civillians killed by the BNP...
(BH_NYC, 25 October 2008 17:24)"
well, my dear BH, it seems like the smog over there in NYC has blurred your consciousness...
if somebody wanted to make a truck full of corpses dissappear, he/they probably wouldn´t have positioned it in knee-high water in order to make it visible for every moron walking by...
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