Controversy over events that triggered NATO attacks

Hello,

More revelations! What else is new! First, Carla Del Ponte revealed that Kosovo Albanians were killing Serbs in Kosovo and then selling their organs in Albania and now Finnish forensic expert Ranta with her findings simply reveals that the Serbs did nothing wrong but simply defend their land against a (U.S.) CIA created KLA army. The truth will eventually come out! The horrific propaganda and media lies conducted by CNN will eventually be aired for the whole world to see. The unexplicable branding of Serbs as murderers and rapists will haunt not only the US but the rest of the puppet countries that were brainwashed by the U.S. into believeing that the Serbian people were this evil.

No comment - again CNN followers will say: Serbian propaganda.

That's what hurts the most. We know the true and most of uninformed people - just buy CNN - lies.
All as part of the big project which we don't want to accept. And it hurts - The True is that Serbia didn't start the War in Balkans (even Mesic said proudly - I am the one who destroyed Yugoslavia)and Slovenian started attacks on JNA and Croatia couldn't wait - as Mesic try to take all credits for. Sarajevo market massacre - proven to be fabricated by same project developers, same as the Racak to begin cowardly attacks on mostly civilian targets throughout Serbia.
All proven and fabricated as WMD - to find excuses to destroy people and national treasures under name of democracy and American Way of LI(f)E.

And again - when you ask us, why we live in denial. Because it hurts - to accept lies and bulling - and we can't accept to sell the soul and accept injustice for hand of dollars.
P.S. I don't deny and I strongly oppose any wrongdoings of serbian paramilitaries towards civilians and all should be prosecuted for crimes commited.(but also all others side should face the justice - but that part is still slowly developing - because of buying CNN propaganda and not listening western honest and unbiased people).

Mike, things were black and white. Just last week you had a report coming out of Serbia saying that there were 13000 dead Albanians and 2000 dead Serbs. Of course no mention of Serbia being guilty on that report either. That's pretty much black and white. Then the Serbs here in this site talked about how there only 10 % Serbs in Kosova so that 2000 number is really big. They intentionally forgot to see that if that 10% of Serbs in Kosova killed so many thousands of 90% of the popullation, then there must have been some real mass killings of Albanians happening. Looks black and white to me.

As for Racak I dont know what you guys are arguing about. The relatives of those people are alive today. All you have to do is confirm whether they are Albanians or Serbs. I think that has been determined before but if you Serbs are not satisfied, that is easy to do again. In fact any of you can do it. Ataman for example can easily drive down there again and look for those relatives of those people again and ask himself. In fact any of you can go down there and ask those relatives if you are so interested about the truth. I am afraid none of you is interested in the truth. It seems like you are much more interested in ambiguity and smearing campaigns in order to absolve Serbia and the Serbian people from any guilt.

We knew this all along, but what can you do when america controls cnn? They were telling all sorts of lies to demonise the Serbs to give them an excuse to occupy KiM.What can you do when walker is threatening you and throwing broken pencils in your face?

SHAME ON YOU AMERICA!!!

another uncovered piece of the dirty tricks used by the US/KLA coallition...

Of course terrible crimes were committed (also against Serbs, Roma and Albanians by the KLA as well as by Serbian paramilitaries and police) but Racak was most certainly staged.

All you have to do is watch the relevant part of the Milosevic trial which shows quite clear evidence about this. It was also captured on film by Agence France Press.

Racak was used as one of the main excuses to launch attacks against Serbia and very clearly William Walker was fronting the entire presentation to the world.

Unfortunately those who died were yet more victims used as pawns. But in this case it seems unlikely that events happened anything like as presented.

The question now is whether Helena Ranta's information will be discredited and dismissed or followed up as it should be.

Well there you have it. The truth at last. The lies and distortions that circulated around the world about events in Kosovo were astonishing. Now, in a province more divided than ever, Walker and his like-minded cronies have their huge military base. Isn't that what it was all about in the first place? Shame on the Americans.

When I was reading the Milosevic transcripts regarding Racak, it was quite obvious that the whole event was a fraud and there were photos produced that proved the scene was manipulated.

But what do you expect when fake justification is used to create a fake state for people with fake hopes? It will all become obvious soon enough.

We all knew that Racak was a hoax and this just confirmed it. The US needed a base in Serbia's province of Kosmet in their grand geo-political plan to gain a foothold in a strategic part of the Balkans for economic and political reasons. Its classic imperialism. Thats why they needed Kosmet and I've got to hand it to the Yanks it worked a treat. Invent a war and hey presto, not only do they get a base on Serbian soil but also install a puppet regime full of their chosen war criminals. 2 for the price of 1.

The war against Yugoslavia in '99 culminated in a decade long campaign to undermine secular and socialist Yugoslavia which stood in the way of an expansionist EU and NATO. Once Serbia, the lynchpin to the Yugoslav project was defeated, the imperialists could then proceed unhinderd at divide and conquer and share their ill gotten spoils. The Brits perfected this in Ireland, Cyprus, India and Africa.

Secondly the war in Kosmet acted as a launching pad for the invasion of Iraq in 2003. If the US could get away with bombing and invading 1 sovereign country (YU) under spurious reasons they could pull the same stunt off in Iraq in order to achieve the end result - a base and plentyful supply of cheap oil. Fortunatley for mankind (unfortunate as it turned out for the Iraqi people caught up in the mess) they didnt quite pull it off this time.

Anyway, I'm a big believer in karma. As an Indian friend of mine often says to me, "what misdeeds you do in this life will come back and visit you in the next". And you know what, after all the misdeeds that the US has done over the last 50 or so years, we are now seeing payback - quagmire in Iraq & Afghanistan, bankrupt economy, losing influence in South America to leftist governments.

Its going to be a rough ride and it couldnt happen to a nicer bunch. I can afford myself a chuckle.

This confirms what we all already knew. The Racak incident was a hoax contrived by the KLA. Innocent Serbs were slaughtered by NATO on the basis of a hoax. The real shame is that this comes out 9 and a half years after the fact, and after the KLA terrorists announce their "independence". It's funny watching the KLA supporters on B92 claim this is a "cheap shot" and a "way to sell books". Right, too bad what really happened is caught on film, clearly showing that this was a police action against terrorists. And the KLA supporters also claim magically that notorious Serb hater Carla Del Ponte used "cheap shots" against Albanian organ traffickers to sell books. Slowly but surely all the KLA lies are being revealed.

Who is in denial now, Albanians or Serbs? Amazing how the pro Albin crowd will never even consider other possible scenerios of what actually happened in Kosovo pre-NATO bombings, than the ones ingrained in their brains by Western and KLA propoganda. The truth always comes to the top eventually, no matter how long it takes. The K_Albin UDI is cursed from the start. You cannot create a nation on lies.

At the end of 2000 the Helsinki pathologists wrote up an article for Forensic Science on the autopsies. The article mentioned that only one of the victims had been shot at close range. See link below.

http://www2.hs.fi/english/archive/news.asp?id=20010212IE7

Ben,

Truth hurts. Need to be more flexible and accept the other opinions.

"Common sense tells me that if any of this was true and Ranta really had to deal with such people, by now she would have 'accidentally' dropped her toaster in the bath. I just can’t imagine ‘those’ people would have left such loose ends." - BH_NYC

You know, I thought the exact same thing. But the US is not as sloppy in making their enemies "disappear" like the Russians do. My government prefers to just discredit individuals and silence them out of the media. Russia simply poisons. Still, this action shows that on the international stage, Washington and Moscow (and for that matter Tehran and Beijing) are no different in doing whatever it takes to get what they want.

But let's not throw the baby out with the bathwater. There clearly were problems between Serbs and Albanians in Kosovo. The only trouble was that there was no clear guilty party. A good deal of resistance on both sides came out of a need to practise self-defense. But like all things, American officials need to see things in black and white. So if it meant tipping the scales in making one side appear the open aggressor, it gave greater legitimacy to "humanitarian intervention".

This wouldn't be the first time my country has either fabricated evidence, falsified contrary information, or simply lied its way to war.

And it certainly won't be the last.

It was obvious by her testimony that something was up. Every time she was shown a photo of one of the victims wearing KLA insignia or military items, she’d claim she doesn’t know anything about that.
“This is Exhibit RA-37-004F showing what this person was wearing and whether this raised any doubt. There was a necklace here with a KLA insignia on it. “
“A. Your Honour, I'm not familiar with the ornaments worn by members of the KLA or any other people. To me, this does not indicate anything. It is just an ornament.”
“I'm not an expert on military questions to say that somebody is a member of some military affiliation”
“To my recollection, and I want to emphasise I don't know what is a military boot”
She claimed at trial that she had no evidence that they were anything but civilians, yet didn’t even look for any indications that they were.
Which also raises the question, why test for gun powder residue on the clothing (looking for close range execution) but not test the hands as well to see if they were firing weapons.
Here’s the link to her original testimony
http://www.un.org/icty/transe54/030312ED.htm
Judge for yourselves if she makes a convincing argument that there was no evidence any of the victims had military ties.
It is also interesting that they kept her report under seal and secret for a couple of years.

Whats new how will take U.S. Britain NATO to court. Even if my some miracle you do get a just judgment how will make them pay. Look at Iraq the war was launched on made up lies and greed for oil of self intreset.

Common sense tells me that if any of this was true and Ranta really had to deal with such people, by now she would have 'accidentally' dropped her toaster in the bath. I just can’t imagine ‘those’ people would have left such loose ends.
(BH_NYC, 22 October 2008 13:57)
you don't understand the american political establishment well. they are not into conspiracies and thusly not into murdering people for political reasons. but if there is a consensus among the most influential people in the usa that it is in the interest of their country that some action be taken they will exert pressure on people both foreign and american to get the desired results. there was a lot of pressure on iaea to produce reports about iran's nuclear program that would be acceptable to the bush administration, for example. they do not put a gun on your head to tell you what to do, but you won't have easy time unless you don't co-operate with them.

this is not the first time i read about the controversy regarding the finnish forensic team. the first time i read about it - in american sources - was back in 1999.

Holbrook,Albright are the masterminds of all this balcanic mess. I watched in that cheh movie«Stolen Kosova» how these two credible people kissed Thaci,Haradinaj tose who were in CIA«black List».In coming time we will hear more proves about the real authors of the war in balcans if cia will not use Haradinaj to wash the proves. Bond steel was built before all the recognitions of Kosova... isn't clear who's behind this war? Only not the serbs!

And Ameicans wonder why 9/11 happened. As i have posted before watch out Albanians this is the nation who once supported Saddam and the Taliban fighting the Soviets.
They do what they want for their own political gains. They wanted a foot hold in the Balkans and now they have it.This same nation who is supposed to be friends with us Brits supported the IRA, tried to stop the UK taking back the Falklands. They are not to be trusted

There is an entire family JASHARI that has been killed.

It's not a story the people were killed and even children’s simply they do not exists anymore...

you cannot twist the reality- your army and policy was SIMPLY CRIMINAL in Kosova for the past 20 years and their chief “success” was the war on civilians that they kicked out of their homes and destroyed their documents in the border so not to be able to go back and claim their land.

You can bribe all the dentists of Finland but the fact of the criminal acts of your army and policy will not be hidden.

Btw, Kosova is free and you will never occupy it again so it is pointless that you continua with these stories…

"My dear love Ranta,

I wonder how could 3-8 year old children and 60-70 year old grand parents be dead KLA soldiers dressed up as civilians...and you the rest of people in commenting in this article, do you really still wonder whether the Racak crime and terrorr is true? Come to Kosovo and I will show you evidence of every detail.
(Jack, 22 October 2008 17:11)"

According to the Milosevic indictment there were no 3-8 year old victims and the oldest was 70 with the next oldest being 60.

http://www.un.org/icty/indictment/english/mil-2ai011029e.htm

We knew this all along and the ICTY prosecution knew it after Milosevic destroyed their arguments about Racak and it was dropped from the Milutinovic et al indictment.

Now that the truth on Racak is revealed, what is the USA going to do to help clean up the horrible mess it made? The USA owes the Serbs.

This story doesn't make much sense. First it says that Ranta was told off that her statement was not convincing enough, which means that no one argued about the result but weather it was convincing or not, so? And, later is says that the whole thing was fabricated... or is it that the latter is just a speculation by B92?
Common sense tells me that if any of this was true and Ranta really had to deal with such people, by now she would have 'accidentally' dropped her toaster in the bath. I just can’t imagine ‘those’ people would have left such loose ends. It’s also interesting how these things get blown up just before a book is about to be released.

You might need to read this to understand what I'm talking about.

[link]
(BH_NYC, 22 October 2008 15:59)
i do not see what this has to do with my comment. you say that if ranta were speaking the truth she would have been executed with which i disagree and explain why. regardless of what happened in racak it is perfectly believable that there was a pressure on her to come up with the right result and language because that's regular practice in international relations - unfortunately. people who criticise american policies in the balkans do not say that massacres didn't happen. they say that they are not the reason for american interventions. that's perfectly plausible since far worse massacres often happen in other parts of the world and they are ignored or even worse their perpetrators are protected diplomatically by western politicians.

each way, the article you gave me does not contradict anything ranta or i said.

Good way to sell some books, too bad she's doing it at the expense of all those murdered innocent Albanians. Disgusting.

ENOUGH!

The lack of humanity shown by some posts here makes me sick to my stomach. It is amazing how low some authors will stoop just to sell their book. Think about it people, if it meant that you would make a couple of hundred thousand dollars, wouldn't you say whatever you thought would sell? What sells? Something controversial...something that goes against common knowledge...be it true or fabricated. In this case, her stories are entirely fabricated. You know why I say that?

I call to the memory of the site's readers that video from the Srebrenica Massacre showing the Scorpion paramilitaries executing six Bosnian Muslim Young men. First the Serb public opinion was shocked. And two days later they started saying that the video was fake, and that it was staged.

This article brought here is pathetic disgusting and untrue!
There are many video recordings and writtings statements analysis photos etc which explain perfectly who did what! What a cheap shot!

Another cheap publicity shoots from another so call “expert” who just happens to sell her book. I guess her book now will sell a few more copies in Belgrade.
The same story as Del Pontes book and her claim about so called “organ traffic” in Albania.
Timing is right to get a few more dollars from Kosovo.
However what these guys do not understand is that all the evidence are there and widely exposed.
I suggest that the author and anyone who has doubts visit Racak and the relatives to the victims to get more “evidence”.
Of course you will always have the die hard conspiracies and it gets more creative I guess if the victims are the Kosovo Albanians.
After all there are people in this world who deny the Holocaust ever happen and some other who claims the 9/11 was done by the Americans and Jews themselves.
I guess one more will not harm would it?

Brian,

I recently learned that even KLA is not equal KLA. They had a good number of decent people there because imagine someone is killing all your family. It did happen and many joined the ranks.

But it looks to me, some in KLA still are at war, at least verbally. As I reported, nationalism is ever-present. I barely see any Kosovo flags, but the hundreds of memorials to fallen are full of Albanian flags. In the front of every wedding process there is a car with large Albanian flag.

And yes, I agree that slightest disagreement with Albanian side generates a lot of hostilities. Like the entire world would rotate around them and who is not with them all the time is automatically an enemy. Not the most practical way of life.

Regarding KLA itself... This is probably not unlike the Spanish civil war. Only recently, 70 years later was decided to honor both sides, so military ranks are recognized and pensions are paid accordingly. It is still a controversy in Spain.

Here probably both sides should start thinking like Spanish did - but not 70 years later. I know, it is an anathema for most Serbs, but probably there is no other way. Who had much civilian blood on his hands is a complete different case. But who did not commit war crimes should be equal to JNA.

I am sure she is going to sell more books than Kostunica.

I should write a book myself i think.

I guess the only thing left for Serbia to do now is take Mrs. Ranta to court for not speaking up 9 years earlier and "obstructing the justice". I would suggest let her sell her book first. There is plenty of people in Serbia interested in her book and she will make plenty of money. And then BAM!!!, sue her for all she has. It looks like people elsewhere are learning a lot off Belgrade on how to make money out of Kosova. As for Kosova itself? Oh well, we have talked about it...

This is such a byzantine business!! Milosevic/Serbia was conducting an inquisition asking questions about absolutes to a scientist not prepared to speak in such terms.

One has only to be reminded that a video of point blank executions of Bosnians by Yugoslav forces was broadcast AND OVER HALF OF SERBS THOUGHT IT WAS DOCTORED.

This is a ridiculous and dangerous mindset which only serves a byzantine purpose not truth.

Yes the truth...

I also heard that a forensic expert formerly working on 9/11 claims today in his new book that the whole thing didn't take place. Authorities wanted to tear down WTC anyway, and staged a phony air crash into the buildings with old planes without passengers, and CNN later showed dressed up dummies as victims. Consequently, Bush could start his war on terror...


Needless to say, both expert are looking forward to a pleasant retirement thaks to the royalties...

My dear love Ranta,

I wonder how could 3-8 year old children and 60-70 year old grand parents be dead KLA soldiers dressed up as civilians...and you the rest of people in commenting in this article, do you really still wonder whether the Racak crime and terrorr is true? Come to Kosovo and I will show you evidence of every detail.

"Mike, things were black and white. Just last week you had a report coming out of Serbia saying that there were 13000 dead Albanians and 2000 dead Serbs."

No actually it said the total of ALL was 13000 with 2,500 being Serbs and 9,600 being Albanians - but this includes the "missing" which might be Albanians who live in other countries now as the Red Cross doesn't search for people but merely collects names.

In additional the Roma were killed and kidnapped during the 19 months after NATO took charge with is counted in the January 1998 through December 2000 time frame in which they are counting all those missing and dead.

The Roma of Kosovo had Albanian names and they have said that Roma killed by the KLA were put on Albanian lists.

Looks like her conscience came back to haunt her. A wise prophet once said, "...the truth will set you free."
Unfortunately for the U.S. and her lackeys the truth must always be twisted into their perception/vision of what should be the truth.

i will really try to restrain myself here, because otherwise i will never see my posting published here.

we do not have to convince the other side, every time some wacko comes out with a tell-all book, that what happened actually happened. i mean if YOU wish to do so or send a related link (and the one from the Inst for war and peace reporting was quite good, thank you,)then that is your right. but i will not spend the rest of my life trying to convince the other side of the truth. i will not waste my precious time.

no, i do not have to reargue racak. but i do wish to comment on the phenonmenon of this thread: some wild and inappropriate accusation is lobbed, and the other side erupts in a veritable orgy of accusations and self-congratulatory vehemence. "we were right all along -- they hate us -- down with america!! (sounds like the Iran comedy circuit); the albanians are organ traders...
and on and on, ad nauseum.

why do we periodically see such reactions?

In his book "Media Cleansing: Dirty Reporting" - American journalist Peter Brock writes about what happened at Racak as well. On pages 313-314 he gives an extract from an article in Berliner Zeitung, from Jan. 17, 2001 titled "Racak: Finish pathologists find no massacre" - where authors said that they saw the report by forensics - and that report confirmed conclusion which 'Berliner Zeitung' had come to in March 2000 analyzing classified autopsy protocols: There was no proof of mass execution of Albanian civilians by Serbian security forces, contrary to claims at that time by OSCE and many Western politicians.
(Interesting is that after the the report was submitted to the Yugoslav Tribunal - it was immediately marked secret...)
Author Peter Brock after that says:
"Evidence was presented by defense in the trial against Milosevic on April 27, 2005, that thirty of fourty "massacre victims" at Racak were members of KLA. Also, the "massacre" on Jan. 15, 1999, was instead an ambush set up by KLA to provoke international intervention. Within few weeks, bombs and missiles from NATO and American aircraft rained down on Belgrade, Novi Sad, Nis and other Serbian targets for 78 straight days.
More bones would speak - but were never asked."

On 22 October 2008 13:27, Ratko wrote:

"What can you do when walker is threatening you and throwing broken pencils in your face?"

Oh yeah - really scary. NOT.

If you can't with good conscience put your name in a report, then DON'T. If you still do it, don't blame others, blame yourself.
--

I guess one day I will hear news from B92 how Kosovo tried to destroy the Serbian army and kill defenceless Serbian citizens from beasty Albanians with Tanks who had no mercy! Keep writting elegies and love poems about innocence of your paramilitaries....thats the only thing ur good at!
God Bless Kosova!

The pretext for the war is not really important. Does it matter if Gavrilo Princip was or was not sponsored bt the Serbian government. It was not what the war was all about.
By 1999 it was crystal clear that Serbia could not reintegrate Kopsovo. Simply the Kosovars were too many, too compact, had practical independence from Serbia proper forr far too long. Yet the Serbia government was unwilling to offer terms that if fulfilled, it would let Kosovo go. This obstinence could lead only to violence: Terrorism, anti-terrorism, syffering. NATO could not allow this to go for too long on the Balkans. So it took one pretext. Could have been another.

How many albanians out there still believe 'Operation Horseshoe', or Potkovka - the alleged Serbian military plan to ethnically cleanse the albanians from Kosovo is true?

Despite the fact that it turned out to be hearsay from Bulgarian 'intelligence' and then amplified and puffed up by the German BND, it got plenty of air play.

When lies are found out, they are conveniently 'forgotten', or said to be 'not relevant' (it isn't important who did it but what happened afterwards). If that isn't downright self-dishonest way of responding to a lie uncovered, then what is?

Serbia should (again) take NATO to the ICJ, even though last time they said they did not have the remit to judge NATO as Serbia was 'not a member of the UN at the time'. More recent rulings in other courts have said that Serbia was a member of the UN and bound by the Geneva conventions.

Either the ICJ takes this on or it dissolves itself.

Still, it is unlikely that Tadic will do this but is a particularly potent weapon that can be used in negotiations with the EU...

Kosovo is full of Racak’s.
9600 dead Albanians (Accepted even by Serbia) equal 240 Racaks.
The people that survived that day are still alive.
They will confirm who did the atrocity.
It is very easy shelling civilian villages from the distance as it was done in Kosovo and then send the scavengers to clear the remains (“lešinari” as you would say in Serbian).
It is pathetic to read that people link Racak with NATO involvement in resolving the Kosovo issue.
Racak was the last straw in the atrocities committed prior to NATO Commitment.
NATO took actions to avoid another 500 Racaks before it acts.
What is even more pathetic is the way some pro-Serbian try to believe in any fabrication to convince themselves that they are the victims.
Everybody in Yugoslavia knows who was responsible for all that happened in Slovenia, Croatia, B&H and Kosovo.
Until this attitude is still at large within Serbia there will be no peace, there will be no forgiveness.

Re: (malcolm x, 22 October 2008 15:07)

You might need to read this to understand what I'm talking about.

http://www.iwpr.net/?p=tri&s=f&o=166625&apc_state=henitri2002

Found a few links (in English):

http://www2.hs.fi/english/archive/news.asp?id=20010212IE6

http://www.hs.fi/english/article/Helena+Ranta+Foreign+Ministry+tried+to+influence+Kosovo+reports/1135240292632

PJD,
Your source neither supports nor contradicts your argument. Only 22 of the 45 victims listed have extimated ages, 23 are blank so you cannot tell if these people are 2 or 102. But in her testimony she did state that there was one boy (age not given) and several elderly people.

down with america!! (sounds like the Iran comedy circuit)
(roberto, 23 October 2008 04:59)

Roberto, now it's Oct. 23 and look what is going on in Hungary right now - your comment is more actual than you could imagine. The usual anti-semite nazi gang demanded today, that Iranian Revolutionary Guards should patrol in Budapest. I know Holocaust-survivors who do not dare to apply for severance they are entitled to - because of fear to land up in some data base and after the likely government change in 2010 become targets of open hostilities.

As bizarre your words did sound about Iran - they are sadly the "reality on the ground" just 200 miles north of Belgrade. Just an idea: maybe your fight is more justified there? The "mini-Duce" Viktor Orbán successfully poisoned the entire country, he is far more dangerous than Haider.

Blero,

You write: "Everybody in Yugoslavia knows who was responsible for all that happened in Slovenia..."

Tell me what happened in Slovenia. And give me facts, no fairy tales.

Tell me what happened in Slovenia. And give me facts, no fairy tales.
(Olli, 24 October 2008 00:24)

Olli, funny enough I was in Slovenia at the time.
What happened was very simple.
Slovenia told Serbia that it does not want to be any more in the state where there is one superior race and everybody else must obey, and Serbia wanted to prove them who is the boss. Luckily for Slovenia there were no Serbs in Slovenia therefore the “where is one Serb that is Serbia” attitude did not hold water.
Serbia realised that it started a battle that cannot complete successfully (well since it would have to go via Croatia – "a hostile territory" to send supplies and replenish troops) it decided to cut the losses.
Olli, you do not have to be a classified historian (like Jovan) to know what happened in Yugoslavia. Thankfully this happened recently and there are lots of witnesses alive.

Close enough?

Blero,

You just confirm my point. Who started dismentling of Yugoslavia - Slovenia, but Mesic and Croatia were very well prepared - bought arms in advance and Mesic openly enjoyed to say "I am the one who destroyed Yugoslavia" and then it's chain reaction - Muslims in Bosnia and later Blero and Albanians take advantage of US project management.
And still you contradicts yourself by saying that somebody else is orchestrator of those unfortunate events which made most of us displaced but still Yugo-nostalgic.
SHAME for supporting dismentling of Yugoslavia and later Serbia but supporting integrity of Croatia, Bosnia and Kosovo.

What a double standards, which will lead to the end of the current World politics and economy - and then what???
War - Russia and oposition will suffer the most but win and all over again... we will buy in and you will be accepted again in bortherhood and unity and when you grow again you will ask for separation etc.

Bubles and Cycles in economy and politics - unbeliavable but proven happenings - unfortunatly

Blero,

Your shortcut answer is naive. I'm unhappy that you didn't surprise me with a solid answer but instead offer a childish american type view.

What happened in Slovenia must be traced back to Titoism. And so, among other things, also to the main ideologist of Titoism during 50's (in picture again in 1973-78), Slovenian communist Edvard Kardelj.

Sorry, I can't rank you above Jovan - whose writings aren't anywhere close to be taken seriously.

You guys, your "facts" don't offer much light. But your attitudes do, unintentionally.

no, i do not have to reargue racak. but i do wish to comment on the phenonmenon of this thread: some wild and inappropriate accusation is lobbed, and the other side erupts in a veritable orgy of accusations and self-congratulatory vehemence. "we were right all along -- they hate us -- down with america!! (sounds like the Iran comedy circuit); the albanians are organ traders...
and on and on, ad nauseum.

why do we periodically see such reactions?
(roberto, 23 October 2008 04:59)

It may sound to you as inappropriate and lobbed, but try to convince people that ware bombed for three months by most powerful military organization on earth. Try to convince mother of newborn child that died in bombed hospital, or bombed train, civilian TV station, bridges , factories, should I go on. Any, even little news that gives you hope that those criminals and murderers of innocent civilians will be brought to justice, somehow gives your heart some peace. Majority of these perpetrators know about this injustice and they guilt is slowly catching up with them. Serbia and rest of the civilized world mustn’t rest to all truth and nothing but the truth comes out. And all criminals pay the price for their crimes.

I think that Serbians should not cry and tell that it was hoax. We also knew that Greeks settled in Macedonia in 1800s and 1900s with a peak in 1920s, but serbians are supporting them against macedonia. That is even bigger hoax: Macedonia is "Greek" that you - serbians - help to build, insted to say FIRM NO to that sore losers Greeks who are next on the balkan list of bullies.

blero, one does not to be a magician to figure out that it is nonsense, what you are selling here.

it was not about any "superior races" or other nonsense, you have probably read in some cheap yellow-papers that can be bought in down-town Priština, ... by the way: the yugoslav army-chief back then was a croat, so, who was that ominous "superior race" you are talking about?

how comes the K-albanians are so obsessed with racial-questions? dreaming to be the descendants of the Illyrians, desperately trying to make a racial-issue of it, although that is complete nonsense.
most K-albanians do not even seem to know the true meaning of that word -racism- at all.

"You guys, your "facts" don't offer much light. But your attitudes do, unintentionally.
(Olli, 24 October 2008 16:24)"

Olli, once again, this is not meant as an offense, but there is absolutely no need to present you any "facts"... it´s all there, you just have to open your eyes...

but instead of playing the "EU-citizen" here, you should rather think about how naive most EU-citizens are, since they are oh so proud of being that...

crime, corruption, it´s all there, but you guys think you´ve invented the world... =)

if it was not that sad, I would be laughing.

and you were writing about "attitude"... great.

Olli, Blero, Jovan

You guys are reminding me of -No Man's Land's - Ko je poceo rat?- dialogue. I think Roberto is right in refraining from trying to convince the other side about who did what. At times you just have to do that.

This article brought here is pathetic disgusting and untrue!
There are many video recordings and writtings statements analysis photos etc which explain perfectly who did what! What a cheap shot!

Good way to sell some books, too bad she's doing it at the expense of all those murdered innocent Albanians. Disgusting.

There is an entire family JASHARI that has been killed.

It's not a story the people were killed and even children’s simply they do not exists anymore...

you cannot twist the reality- your army and policy was SIMPLY CRIMINAL in Kosova for the past 20 years and their chief “success” was the war on civilians that they kicked out of their homes and destroyed their documents in the border so not to be able to go back and claim their land.

You can bribe all the dentists of Finland but the fact of the criminal acts of your army and policy will not be hidden.

Btw, Kosova is free and you will never occupy it again so it is pointless that you continua with these stories…

My dear love Ranta,

I wonder how could 3-8 year old children and 60-70 year old grand parents be dead KLA soldiers dressed up as civilians...and you the rest of people in commenting in this article, do you really still wonder whether the Racak crime and terrorr is true? Come to Kosovo and I will show you evidence of every detail.

Another cheap publicity shoots from another so call “expert” who just happens to sell her book. I guess her book now will sell a few more copies in Belgrade.
The same story as Del Pontes book and her claim about so called “organ traffic” in Albania.
Timing is right to get a few more dollars from Kosovo.
However what these guys do not understand is that all the evidence are there and widely exposed.
I suggest that the author and anyone who has doubts visit Racak and the relatives to the victims to get more “evidence”.
Of course you will always have the die hard conspiracies and it gets more creative I guess if the victims are the Kosovo Albanians.
After all there are people in this world who deny the Holocaust ever happen and some other who claims the 9/11 was done by the Americans and Jews themselves.
I guess one more will not harm would it?

I am sure she is going to sell more books than Kostunica.

I should write a book myself i think.

This story doesn't make much sense. First it says that Ranta was told off that her statement was not convincing enough, which means that no one argued about the result but weather it was convincing or not, so? And, later is says that the whole thing was fabricated... or is it that the latter is just a speculation by B92?
Common sense tells me that if any of this was true and Ranta really had to deal with such people, by now she would have 'accidentally' dropped her toaster in the bath. I just can’t imagine ‘those’ people would have left such loose ends. It’s also interesting how these things get blown up just before a book is about to be released.

Yes the truth...

I also heard that a forensic expert formerly working on 9/11 claims today in his new book that the whole thing didn't take place. Authorities wanted to tear down WTC anyway, and staged a phony air crash into the buildings with old planes without passengers, and CNN later showed dressed up dummies as victims. Consequently, Bush could start his war on terror...


Needless to say, both expert are looking forward to a pleasant retirement thaks to the royalties...

I guess the only thing left for Serbia to do now is take Mrs. Ranta to court for not speaking up 9 years earlier and "obstructing the justice". I would suggest let her sell her book first. There is plenty of people in Serbia interested in her book and she will make plenty of money. And then BAM!!!, sue her for all she has. It looks like people elsewhere are learning a lot off Belgrade on how to make money out of Kosova. As for Kosova itself? Oh well, we have talked about it...

The pretext for the war is not really important. Does it matter if Gavrilo Princip was or was not sponsored bt the Serbian government. It was not what the war was all about.
By 1999 it was crystal clear that Serbia could not reintegrate Kopsovo. Simply the Kosovars were too many, too compact, had practical independence from Serbia proper forr far too long. Yet the Serbia government was unwilling to offer terms that if fulfilled, it would let Kosovo go. This obstinence could lead only to violence: Terrorism, anti-terrorism, syffering. NATO could not allow this to go for too long on the Balkans. So it took one pretext. Could have been another.

Mike, things were black and white. Just last week you had a report coming out of Serbia saying that there were 13000 dead Albanians and 2000 dead Serbs. Of course no mention of Serbia being guilty on that report either. That's pretty much black and white. Then the Serbs here in this site talked about how there only 10 % Serbs in Kosova so that 2000 number is really big. They intentionally forgot to see that if that 10% of Serbs in Kosova killed so many thousands of 90% of the popullation, then there must have been some real mass killings of Albanians happening. Looks black and white to me.

As for Racak I dont know what you guys are arguing about. The relatives of those people are alive today. All you have to do is confirm whether they are Albanians or Serbs. I think that has been determined before but if you Serbs are not satisfied, that is easy to do again. In fact any of you can do it. Ataman for example can easily drive down there again and look for those relatives of those people again and ask himself. In fact any of you can go down there and ask those relatives if you are so interested about the truth. I am afraid none of you is interested in the truth. It seems like you are much more interested in ambiguity and smearing campaigns in order to absolve Serbia and the Serbian people from any guilt.

On 22 October 2008 13:27, Ratko wrote:

"What can you do when walker is threatening you and throwing broken pencils in your face?"

Oh yeah - really scary. NOT.

If you can't with good conscience put your name in a report, then DON'T. If you still do it, don't blame others, blame yourself.
--

ENOUGH!

The lack of humanity shown by some posts here makes me sick to my stomach. It is amazing how low some authors will stoop just to sell their book. Think about it people, if it meant that you would make a couple of hundred thousand dollars, wouldn't you say whatever you thought would sell? What sells? Something controversial...something that goes against common knowledge...be it true or fabricated. In this case, her stories are entirely fabricated. You know why I say that?

I call to the memory of the site's readers that video from the Srebrenica Massacre showing the Scorpion paramilitaries executing six Bosnian Muslim Young men. First the Serb public opinion was shocked. And two days later they started saying that the video was fake, and that it was staged.

Found a few links (in English):

http://www2.hs.fi/english/archive/news.asp?id=20010212IE6

http://www.hs.fi/english/article/Helena+Ranta+Foreign+Ministry+tried+to+influence+Kosovo+reports/1135240292632

Common sense tells me that if any of this was true and Ranta really had to deal with such people, by now she would have 'accidentally' dropped her toaster in the bath. I just can’t imagine ‘those’ people would have left such loose ends.
(BH_NYC, 22 October 2008 13:57)
you don't understand the american political establishment well. they are not into conspiracies and thusly not into murdering people for political reasons. but if there is a consensus among the most influential people in the usa that it is in the interest of their country that some action be taken they will exert pressure on people both foreign and american to get the desired results. there was a lot of pressure on iaea to produce reports about iran's nuclear program that would be acceptable to the bush administration, for example. they do not put a gun on your head to tell you what to do, but you won't have easy time unless you don't co-operate with them.

this is not the first time i read about the controversy regarding the finnish forensic team. the first time i read about it - in american sources - was back in 1999.

Re: (malcolm x, 22 October 2008 15:07)

You might need to read this to understand what I'm talking about.

http://www.iwpr.net/?p=tri&s=f&o=166625&apc_state=henitri2002

Whats new how will take U.S. Britain NATO to court. Even if my some miracle you do get a just judgment how will make them pay. Look at Iraq the war was launched on made up lies and greed for oil of self intreset.

Brian,

I recently learned that even KLA is not equal KLA. They had a good number of decent people there because imagine someone is killing all your family. It did happen and many joined the ranks.

But it looks to me, some in KLA still are at war, at least verbally. As I reported, nationalism is ever-present. I barely see any Kosovo flags, but the hundreds of memorials to fallen are full of Albanian flags. In the front of every wedding process there is a car with large Albanian flag.

And yes, I agree that slightest disagreement with Albanian side generates a lot of hostilities. Like the entire world would rotate around them and who is not with them all the time is automatically an enemy. Not the most practical way of life.

Regarding KLA itself... This is probably not unlike the Spanish civil war. Only recently, 70 years later was decided to honor both sides, so military ranks are recognized and pensions are paid accordingly. It is still a controversy in Spain.

Here probably both sides should start thinking like Spanish did - but not 70 years later. I know, it is an anathema for most Serbs, but probably there is no other way. Who had much civilian blood on his hands is a complete different case. But who did not commit war crimes should be equal to JNA.

"Common sense tells me that if any of this was true and Ranta really had to deal with such people, by now she would have 'accidentally' dropped her toaster in the bath. I just can’t imagine ‘those’ people would have left such loose ends." - BH_NYC

You know, I thought the exact same thing. But the US is not as sloppy in making their enemies "disappear" like the Russians do. My government prefers to just discredit individuals and silence them out of the media. Russia simply poisons. Still, this action shows that on the international stage, Washington and Moscow (and for that matter Tehran and Beijing) are no different in doing whatever it takes to get what they want.

But let's not throw the baby out with the bathwater. There clearly were problems between Serbs and Albanians in Kosovo. The only trouble was that there was no clear guilty party. A good deal of resistance on both sides came out of a need to practise self-defense. But like all things, American officials need to see things in black and white. So if it meant tipping the scales in making one side appear the open aggressor, it gave greater legitimacy to "humanitarian intervention".

This wouldn't be the first time my country has either fabricated evidence, falsified contrary information, or simply lied its way to war.

And it certainly won't be the last.

And Ameicans wonder why 9/11 happened. As i have posted before watch out Albanians this is the nation who once supported Saddam and the Taliban fighting the Soviets.
They do what they want for their own political gains. They wanted a foot hold in the Balkans and now they have it.This same nation who is supposed to be friends with us Brits supported the IRA, tried to stop the UK taking back the Falklands. They are not to be trusted

This confirms what we all already knew. The Racak incident was a hoax contrived by the KLA. Innocent Serbs were slaughtered by NATO on the basis of a hoax. The real shame is that this comes out 9 and a half years after the fact, and after the KLA terrorists announce their "independence". It's funny watching the KLA supporters on B92 claim this is a "cheap shot" and a "way to sell books". Right, too bad what really happened is caught on film, clearly showing that this was a police action against terrorists. And the KLA supporters also claim magically that notorious Serb hater Carla Del Ponte used "cheap shots" against Albanian organ traffickers to sell books. Slowly but surely all the KLA lies are being revealed.

I guess one day I will hear news from B92 how Kosovo tried to destroy the Serbian army and kill defenceless Serbian citizens from beasty Albanians with Tanks who had no mercy! Keep writting elegies and love poems about innocence of your paramilitaries....thats the only thing ur good at!
God Bless Kosova!

We knew this all along, but what can you do when america controls cnn? They were telling all sorts of lies to demonise the Serbs to give them an excuse to occupy KiM.What can you do when walker is threatening you and throwing broken pencils in your face?

SHAME ON YOU AMERICA!!!

another uncovered piece of the dirty tricks used by the US/KLA coallition...

Of course terrible crimes were committed (also against Serbs, Roma and Albanians by the KLA as well as by Serbian paramilitaries and police) but Racak was most certainly staged.

All you have to do is watch the relevant part of the Milosevic trial which shows quite clear evidence about this. It was also captured on film by Agence France Press.

Racak was used as one of the main excuses to launch attacks against Serbia and very clearly William Walker was fronting the entire presentation to the world.

Unfortunately those who died were yet more victims used as pawns. But in this case it seems unlikely that events happened anything like as presented.

The question now is whether Helena Ranta's information will be discredited and dismissed or followed up as it should be.

When I was reading the Milosevic transcripts regarding Racak, it was quite obvious that the whole event was a fraud and there were photos produced that proved the scene was manipulated.

But what do you expect when fake justification is used to create a fake state for people with fake hopes? It will all become obvious soon enough.

Well there you have it. The truth at last. The lies and distortions that circulated around the world about events in Kosovo were astonishing. Now, in a province more divided than ever, Walker and his like-minded cronies have their huge military base. Isn't that what it was all about in the first place? Shame on the Americans.

No comment - again CNN followers will say: Serbian propaganda.

That's what hurts the most. We know the true and most of uninformed people - just buy CNN - lies.
All as part of the big project which we don't want to accept. And it hurts - The True is that Serbia didn't start the War in Balkans (even Mesic said proudly - I am the one who destroyed Yugoslavia)and Slovenian started attacks on JNA and Croatia couldn't wait - as Mesic try to take all credits for. Sarajevo market massacre - proven to be fabricated by same project developers, same as the Racak to begin cowardly attacks on mostly civilian targets throughout Serbia.
All proven and fabricated as WMD - to find excuses to destroy people and national treasures under name of democracy and American Way of LI(f)E.

And again - when you ask us, why we live in denial. Because it hurts - to accept lies and bulling - and we can't accept to sell the soul and accept injustice for hand of dollars.
P.S. I don't deny and I strongly oppose any wrongdoings of serbian paramilitaries towards civilians and all should be prosecuted for crimes commited.(but also all others side should face the justice - but that part is still slowly developing - because of buying CNN propaganda and not listening western honest and unbiased people).

Hello,

More revelations! What else is new! First, Carla Del Ponte revealed that Kosovo Albanians were killing Serbs in Kosovo and then selling their organs in Albania and now Finnish forensic expert Ranta with her findings simply reveals that the Serbs did nothing wrong but simply defend their land against a (U.S.) CIA created KLA army. The truth will eventually come out! The horrific propaganda and media lies conducted by CNN will eventually be aired for the whole world to see. The unexplicable branding of Serbs as murderers and rapists will haunt not only the US but the rest of the puppet countries that were brainwashed by the U.S. into believeing that the Serbian people were this evil.

At the end of 2000 the Helsinki pathologists wrote up an article for Forensic Science on the autopsies. The article mentioned that only one of the victims had been shot at close range. See link below.

http://www2.hs.fi/english/archive/news.asp?id=20010212IE7

We all knew that Racak was a hoax and this just confirmed it. The US needed a base in Serbia's province of Kosmet in their grand geo-political plan to gain a foothold in a strategic part of the Balkans for economic and political reasons. Its classic imperialism. Thats why they needed Kosmet and I've got to hand it to the Yanks it worked a treat. Invent a war and hey presto, not only do they get a base on Serbian soil but also install a puppet regime full of their chosen war criminals. 2 for the price of 1.

The war against Yugoslavia in '99 culminated in a decade long campaign to undermine secular and socialist Yugoslavia which stood in the way of an expansionist EU and NATO. Once Serbia, the lynchpin to the Yugoslav project was defeated, the imperialists could then proceed unhinderd at divide and conquer and share their ill gotten spoils. The Brits perfected this in Ireland, Cyprus, India and Africa.

Secondly the war in Kosmet acted as a launching pad for the invasion of Iraq in 2003. If the US could get away with bombing and invading 1 sovereign country (YU) under spurious reasons they could pull the same stunt off in Iraq in order to achieve the end result - a base and plentyful supply of cheap oil. Fortunatley for mankind (unfortunate as it turned out for the Iraqi people caught up in the mess) they didnt quite pull it off this time.

Anyway, I'm a big believer in karma. As an Indian friend of mine often says to me, "what misdeeds you do in this life will come back and visit you in the next". And you know what, after all the misdeeds that the US has done over the last 50 or so years, we are now seeing payback - quagmire in Iraq & Afghanistan, bankrupt economy, losing influence in South America to leftist governments.

Its going to be a rough ride and it couldnt happen to a nicer bunch. I can afford myself a chuckle.

Holbrook,Albright are the masterminds of all this balcanic mess. I watched in that cheh movie«Stolen Kosova» how these two credible people kissed Thaci,Haradinaj tose who were in CIA«black List».In coming time we will hear more proves about the real authors of the war in balcans if cia will not use Haradinaj to wash the proves. Bond steel was built before all the recognitions of Kosova... isn't clear who's behind this war? Only not the serbs!

Ben,

Truth hurts. Need to be more flexible and accept the other opinions.

Who is in denial now, Albanians or Serbs? Amazing how the pro Albin crowd will never even consider other possible scenerios of what actually happened in Kosovo pre-NATO bombings, than the ones ingrained in their brains by Western and KLA propoganda. The truth always comes to the top eventually, no matter how long it takes. The K_Albin UDI is cursed from the start. You cannot create a nation on lies.

It was obvious by her testimony that something was up. Every time she was shown a photo of one of the victims wearing KLA insignia or military items, she’d claim she doesn’t know anything about that.
“This is Exhibit RA-37-004F showing what this person was wearing and whether this raised any doubt. There was a necklace here with a KLA insignia on it. “
“A. Your Honour, I'm not familiar with the ornaments worn by members of the KLA or any other people. To me, this does not indicate anything. It is just an ornament.”
“I'm not an expert on military questions to say that somebody is a member of some military affiliation”
“To my recollection, and I want to emphasise I don't know what is a military boot”
She claimed at trial that she had no evidence that they were anything but civilians, yet didn’t even look for any indications that they were.
Which also raises the question, why test for gun powder residue on the clothing (looking for close range execution) but not test the hands as well to see if they were firing weapons.
Here’s the link to her original testimony
http://www.un.org/icty/transe54/030312ED.htm
Judge for yourselves if she makes a convincing argument that there was no evidence any of the victims had military ties.
It is also interesting that they kept her report under seal and secret for a couple of years.

"My dear love Ranta,

I wonder how could 3-8 year old children and 60-70 year old grand parents be dead KLA soldiers dressed up as civilians...and you the rest of people in commenting in this article, do you really still wonder whether the Racak crime and terrorr is true? Come to Kosovo and I will show you evidence of every detail.
(Jack, 22 October 2008 17:11)"

According to the Milosevic indictment there were no 3-8 year old victims and the oldest was 70 with the next oldest being 60.

http://www.un.org/icty/indictment/english/mil-2ai011029e.htm

We knew this all along and the ICTY prosecution knew it after Milosevic destroyed their arguments about Racak and it was dropped from the Milutinovic et al indictment.

Now that the truth on Racak is revealed, what is the USA going to do to help clean up the horrible mess it made? The USA owes the Serbs.

This is such a byzantine business!! Milosevic/Serbia was conducting an inquisition asking questions about absolutes to a scientist not prepared to speak in such terms.

One has only to be reminded that a video of point blank executions of Bosnians by Yugoslav forces was broadcast AND OVER HALF OF SERBS THOUGHT IT WAS DOCTORED.

This is a ridiculous and dangerous mindset which only serves a byzantine purpose not truth.

How many albanians out there still believe 'Operation Horseshoe', or Potkovka - the alleged Serbian military plan to ethnically cleanse the albanians from Kosovo is true?

Despite the fact that it turned out to be hearsay from Bulgarian 'intelligence' and then amplified and puffed up by the German BND, it got plenty of air play.

When lies are found out, they are conveniently 'forgotten', or said to be 'not relevant' (it isn't important who did it but what happened afterwards). If that isn't downright self-dishonest way of responding to a lie uncovered, then what is?

Serbia should (again) take NATO to the ICJ, even though last time they said they did not have the remit to judge NATO as Serbia was 'not a member of the UN at the time'. More recent rulings in other courts have said that Serbia was a member of the UN and bound by the Geneva conventions.

Either the ICJ takes this on or it dissolves itself.

Still, it is unlikely that Tadic will do this but is a particularly potent weapon that can be used in negotiations with the EU...

"Mike, things were black and white. Just last week you had a report coming out of Serbia saying that there were 13000 dead Albanians and 2000 dead Serbs."

No actually it said the total of ALL was 13000 with 2,500 being Serbs and 9,600 being Albanians - but this includes the "missing" which might be Albanians who live in other countries now as the Red Cross doesn't search for people but merely collects names.

In additional the Roma were killed and kidnapped during the 19 months after NATO took charge with is counted in the January 1998 through December 2000 time frame in which they are counting all those missing and dead.

The Roma of Kosovo had Albanian names and they have said that Roma killed by the KLA were put on Albanian lists.

Looks like her conscience came back to haunt her. A wise prophet once said, "...the truth will set you free."
Unfortunately for the U.S. and her lackeys the truth must always be twisted into their perception/vision of what should be the truth.

i will really try to restrain myself here, because otherwise i will never see my posting published here.

we do not have to convince the other side, every time some wacko comes out with a tell-all book, that what happened actually happened. i mean if YOU wish to do so or send a related link (and the one from the Inst for war and peace reporting was quite good, thank you,)then that is your right. but i will not spend the rest of my life trying to convince the other side of the truth. i will not waste my precious time.

no, i do not have to reargue racak. but i do wish to comment on the phenonmenon of this thread: some wild and inappropriate accusation is lobbed, and the other side erupts in a veritable orgy of accusations and self-congratulatory vehemence. "we were right all along -- they hate us -- down with america!! (sounds like the Iran comedy circuit); the albanians are organ traders...
and on and on, ad nauseum.

why do we periodically see such reactions?

In his book "Media Cleansing: Dirty Reporting" - American journalist Peter Brock writes about what happened at Racak as well. On pages 313-314 he gives an extract from an article in Berliner Zeitung, from Jan. 17, 2001 titled "Racak: Finish pathologists find no massacre" - where authors said that they saw the report by forensics - and that report confirmed conclusion which 'Berliner Zeitung' had come to in March 2000 analyzing classified autopsy protocols: There was no proof of mass execution of Albanian civilians by Serbian security forces, contrary to claims at that time by OSCE and many Western politicians.
(Interesting is that after the the report was submitted to the Yugoslav Tribunal - it was immediately marked secret...)
Author Peter Brock after that says:
"Evidence was presented by defense in the trial against Milosevic on April 27, 2005, that thirty of fourty "massacre victims" at Racak were members of KLA. Also, the "massacre" on Jan. 15, 1999, was instead an ambush set up by KLA to provoke international intervention. Within few weeks, bombs and missiles from NATO and American aircraft rained down on Belgrade, Novi Sad, Nis and other Serbian targets for 78 straight days.
More bones would speak - but were never asked."

PJD,
Your source neither supports nor contradicts your argument. Only 22 of the 45 victims listed have extimated ages, 23 are blank so you cannot tell if these people are 2 or 102. But in her testimony she did state that there was one boy (age not given) and several elderly people.

Kosovo is full of Racak’s.
9600 dead Albanians (Accepted even by Serbia) equal 240 Racaks.
The people that survived that day are still alive.
They will confirm who did the atrocity.
It is very easy shelling civilian villages from the distance as it was done in Kosovo and then send the scavengers to clear the remains (“lešinari” as you would say in Serbian).
It is pathetic to read that people link Racak with NATO involvement in resolving the Kosovo issue.
Racak was the last straw in the atrocities committed prior to NATO Commitment.
NATO took actions to avoid another 500 Racaks before it acts.
What is even more pathetic is the way some pro-Serbian try to believe in any fabrication to convince themselves that they are the victims.
Everybody in Yugoslavia knows who was responsible for all that happened in Slovenia, Croatia, B&H and Kosovo.
Until this attitude is still at large within Serbia there will be no peace, there will be no forgiveness.

Blero,

You write: "Everybody in Yugoslavia knows who was responsible for all that happened in Slovenia..."

Tell me what happened in Slovenia. And give me facts, no fairy tales.

Blero,

You just confirm my point. Who started dismentling of Yugoslavia - Slovenia, but Mesic and Croatia were very well prepared - bought arms in advance and Mesic openly enjoyed to say "I am the one who destroyed Yugoslavia" and then it's chain reaction - Muslims in Bosnia and later Blero and Albanians take advantage of US project management.
And still you contradicts yourself by saying that somebody else is orchestrator of those unfortunate events which made most of us displaced but still Yugo-nostalgic.
SHAME for supporting dismentling of Yugoslavia and later Serbia but supporting integrity of Croatia, Bosnia and Kosovo.

What a double standards, which will lead to the end of the current World politics and economy - and then what???
War - Russia and oposition will suffer the most but win and all over again... we will buy in and you will be accepted again in bortherhood and unity and when you grow again you will ask for separation etc.

Bubles and Cycles in economy and politics - unbeliavable but proven happenings - unfortunatly

Blero,

Your shortcut answer is naive. I'm unhappy that you didn't surprise me with a solid answer but instead offer a childish american type view.

What happened in Slovenia must be traced back to Titoism. And so, among other things, also to the main ideologist of Titoism during 50's (in picture again in 1973-78), Slovenian communist Edvard Kardelj.

Sorry, I can't rank you above Jovan - whose writings aren't anywhere close to be taken seriously.

You guys, your "facts" don't offer much light. But your attitudes do, unintentionally.

no, i do not have to reargue racak. but i do wish to comment on the phenonmenon of this thread: some wild and inappropriate accusation is lobbed, and the other side erupts in a veritable orgy of accusations and self-congratulatory vehemence. "we were right all along -- they hate us -- down with america!! (sounds like the Iran comedy circuit); the albanians are organ traders...
and on and on, ad nauseum.

why do we periodically see such reactions?
(roberto, 23 October 2008 04:59)

It may sound to you as inappropriate and lobbed, but try to convince people that ware bombed for three months by most powerful military organization on earth. Try to convince mother of newborn child that died in bombed hospital, or bombed train, civilian TV station, bridges , factories, should I go on. Any, even little news that gives you hope that those criminals and murderers of innocent civilians will be brought to justice, somehow gives your heart some peace. Majority of these perpetrators know about this injustice and they guilt is slowly catching up with them. Serbia and rest of the civilized world mustn’t rest to all truth and nothing but the truth comes out. And all criminals pay the price for their crimes.

blero, one does not to be a magician to figure out that it is nonsense, what you are selling here.

it was not about any "superior races" or other nonsense, you have probably read in some cheap yellow-papers that can be bought in down-town Priština, ... by the way: the yugoslav army-chief back then was a croat, so, who was that ominous "superior race" you are talking about?

how comes the K-albanians are so obsessed with racial-questions? dreaming to be the descendants of the Illyrians, desperately trying to make a racial-issue of it, although that is complete nonsense.
most K-albanians do not even seem to know the true meaning of that word -racism- at all.

Olli, Blero, Jovan

You guys are reminding me of -No Man's Land's - Ko je poceo rat?- dialogue. I think Roberto is right in refraining from trying to convince the other side about who did what. At times you just have to do that.

"You guys, your "facts" don't offer much light. But your attitudes do, unintentionally.
(Olli, 24 October 2008 16:24)"

Olli, once again, this is not meant as an offense, but there is absolutely no need to present you any "facts"... it´s all there, you just have to open your eyes...

but instead of playing the "EU-citizen" here, you should rather think about how naive most EU-citizens are, since they are oh so proud of being that...

crime, corruption, it´s all there, but you guys think you´ve invented the world... =)

if it was not that sad, I would be laughing.

and you were writing about "attitude"... great.

You might need to read this to understand what I'm talking about.

[link]
(BH_NYC, 22 October 2008 15:59)
i do not see what this has to do with my comment. you say that if ranta were speaking the truth she would have been executed with which i disagree and explain why. regardless of what happened in racak it is perfectly believable that there was a pressure on her to come up with the right result and language because that's regular practice in international relations - unfortunately. people who criticise american policies in the balkans do not say that massacres didn't happen. they say that they are not the reason for american interventions. that's perfectly plausible since far worse massacres often happen in other parts of the world and they are ignored or even worse their perpetrators are protected diplomatically by western politicians.

each way, the article you gave me does not contradict anything ranta or i said.

down with america!! (sounds like the Iran comedy circuit)
(roberto, 23 October 2008 04:59)

Roberto, now it's Oct. 23 and look what is going on in Hungary right now - your comment is more actual than you could imagine. The usual anti-semite nazi gang demanded today, that Iranian Revolutionary Guards should patrol in Budapest. I know Holocaust-survivors who do not dare to apply for severance they are entitled to - because of fear to land up in some data base and after the likely government change in 2010 become targets of open hostilities.

As bizarre your words did sound about Iran - they are sadly the "reality on the ground" just 200 miles north of Belgrade. Just an idea: maybe your fight is more justified there? The "mini-Duce" Viktor Orbán successfully poisoned the entire country, he is far more dangerous than Haider.

Tell me what happened in Slovenia. And give me facts, no fairy tales.
(Olli, 24 October 2008 00:24)

Olli, funny enough I was in Slovenia at the time.
What happened was very simple.
Slovenia told Serbia that it does not want to be any more in the state where there is one superior race and everybody else must obey, and Serbia wanted to prove them who is the boss. Luckily for Slovenia there were no Serbs in Slovenia therefore the “where is one Serb that is Serbia” attitude did not hold water.
Serbia realised that it started a battle that cannot complete successfully (well since it would have to go via Croatia – "a hostile territory" to send supplies and replenish troops) it decided to cut the losses.
Olli, you do not have to be a classified historian (like Jovan) to know what happened in Yugoslavia. Thankfully this happened recently and there are lots of witnesses alive.

Close enough?

I think that Serbians should not cry and tell that it was hoax. We also knew that Greeks settled in Macedonia in 1800s and 1900s with a peak in 1920s, but serbians are supporting them against macedonia. That is even bigger hoax: Macedonia is "Greek" that you - serbians - help to build, insted to say FIRM NO to that sore losers Greeks who are next on the balkan list of bullies.