An ordinary Kosovar would exclaim: “Thanks a lot Serbia” You are once again doing a huge favor to Kosova, since our politician at this stage are so incompetent to do such a publicity over Kosova and its needs. In other words, Serbia constantly keeps International Community alert on Kosova existence.
"You can say that you needed a car desperately and it was a car you have already rented before but it still doesn't give you the right just to take it. You can rent it again (autonomy) or go and look for another one but you cannot just drive away with it.
Stealing is exactly that. No matter how Mr Wood spins it, it is still stealing."
(Peggy, 21 October 2008 22:04)
Good point Peggy... Let me also add that "the Car" was owned by another "Driver"(Ottoman empire) till 1912, and was not legally incorporated in the "ownership" by the "then" new owner Serbia. (BIG LEGAL MISTAKE).
Let us talk for a moment about the passengers in the car. This are the same "passengers" then and now. So as you say, the new owner after 1912(who never legalised his ownership), was "renting" the car to the driver and the passengers... Do you remeber when the"owner" tor the "renting" legal agreement disregarding THE LOW-LEGALITY, and the driver and the "passengers" were tortured and killed.
Today, hundred(100) years from the day that "Serbia" stole the car, the car is still not moving and is not going anywhere.It never will. It stays were it allways was. The driver and it's passengers are finally going to look after the "car" themselfs, so the car is going to look new,strong and shiny. Of course I understand that you have and will use other arguments about your "ownership". No problem, continue doing what you always did: bla bla your side of the story. The title of our topic this time, is that now it is albanians turn to bla bla their case, for the write of the "ownership" of the car, while being the driver and the passenger in the mean time. First time after 100(hundred) years. We have a lot of "bla bla" to say, and I hope you will listen as well, Peggy.
Always your neighbor,
Dardhan
"Kosovars need just to tell the judges what has happened in Kosova from the '80's to June 1999."
I'm sure that they will very interested to hear of a concerted campaign of threats, coercion, intimadation, beatings, murders and ethnic cleansing carried out by the K-Albanian extreemists on loyal Yugoslav citizens since the 1980s, not to mention the destruction of churches, which is a war crime by the way and the destruction of schools.
Its going to be a hoot, it really is. Besides what makes anyone think that the ICJ will decide in favour of Pristina. If it does that, it would undermine international law and order by giving individual ethnic groups the green light to seek a course of seperatism and individual states to settle old scores by war.
Kosovars need just to tell the judges what has happened in Kosova from the '80's to June 1999. Serbia sent its army to Kosova to kill civilians and burn down everything they could. All the world saw it and acted on behalf of Kosovars who could not do it themselves. After some years foreigners were no longer in position to govern Kosovars and a decision had to be taken on the future of the Kosovars. This decision could in no way be to allow Serbia govern again Kosovars. No normal human would decide to allow the "butcher" govern again a country where only some nine years ago committed genocide in the very same place. Independence is so easy to be defended and the world has to be reminded again of the crimes committed by the Serbian state against Kosovars. Maybe then the Serbian government will really think wisely and apologize for the crimes committed and recognize Kosova. I doubt though that Serbia has wise politicians to do so (but one who is not in position to act).
The ICJ case is shaping up to be very interesting, and will now, officially, allow us an opportunity to air all of the crimes and sins committed by serbia, during the milosevic era and long before. it will make for very long and very interesting (and horrifying) reading, and at the end of it, blgd will never get the mantle that they have sought.
i have great confidence in our side, and some confidence that the icj will understand and accept it.
so in terms of an international legal issue, what serbia has supposedly hoped for (illegal precedent, bla bla bla)will never happen. we'll just have the usual mucking things up, and postponement of progress.
BUT, we will have consolidated a powerful legal position for Kosovo/a, who may then (i hope) take serbia to court for the violations of human rights, and so many other evils.
Ilir:
Serbs could also say that ICJ chose cut-off dates because K-albanian pogrom of 2004 began on 17th March. Is nonsense.
justice:
> Another cold shower for Serbia.
ICJ's decision to invite K-albanians to participate can hardly be seen as a victory. As one of the two parties involved, would be non-sensical to do otherwise. But if such is not your opinion, suggest you change your 'moniker'.
Jan Andersen:
> Why should person A decide what person B do, as long as B does not harm A?
Statement is fine as long as definition of 'harm' has no correlation with the 'action' of B. Is not the case.
"Number mystic" is not a good argument. Besides, 1+7 = 8 and "8" is not considered to be a lucky number. I omit the details and all this is a silliness anyway.
The resort to the ICJ over the Kosovo issue may turn out to be a double-edged sword for Serbia. Now that the Kosovar side has been given the chance to plead its side of the case before the World Court, things could get interesting. We may see the invocation in court of the conventions and UN resolutions on genocide, apartheid, self-determination, decolonization, and much more. It could turn out to be a Western Sahara moment. When the ICJ judges give their opinion in this case, a year or two from now, the outcome may not be to Belgrade's liking. An adverse ruling from the ICJ in this case may have one up-side: it may allow more sensible Serbian politicians to finally come to terms with a reality that's been clear for a number of years now.
In any case, Kosovo is not going to return to Serbian rule.
Albania has long experience in winning in world courts, remember the Corfu incident, Albania made Brithish and US in that time to double think, so now we decided to be allies.
Interesting the date 17!!! On 17th of February Kosovo declared the Independence in coordination with US, EU and G7 countries.
Right move of ICJ in right date. You should get the message.
(Ilir, 21 October 2008 18:37)
--
I think you should be elected to represent the Albanian case given your extremely strong argumentative skills and your high recommendation count. But I will tell you a secret that you missed, both April and Albanian both begin with the letter A so you are onto a sure winner there. Damn, looks like the Albanians have one over us here.
I suppose this is like any other case before any court.
Witnesses and character witnesses do get called, but all a character witness can give is their opinion on what moral standing the accused is of.
At the end of the day the question still remains. Was it legal to do such and such. In this case was UDI in accordance with international law? It doesn't matter how a thief felt about the object he stole. Bottom line, the object was stolen.
You can say that you needed a car desperately and it was a car you have already rented before but it still doesn't give you the right just to take it. You can rent it again (autonomy) or go and look for another one but you cannot just drive away with it.
Stealing is exactly that. No matter how Mr Wood spins it, it is still stealing.
"I've yet to hear one single convincing argument for why Kosovo should be independent, and everything I've heard has come from international backers, not any Albanian."
And I have not heard a single convincing argument for why you should decide if I should be independent.
Why should person A decide what person B do, as long as B does not harm A?
--
Mike, your previous post shows you haven't been listening to opposing views.
Heck, wouldn't you be at least a little bit curious to learn why independence was declared anyway?
Time for ICJ to get the truth. Only Albanians can show the world why they deserve full independence. Serbian lies are about to get the final burial, which paradoxically will uncover the ultimate truth for all the people living in this part of the world
The court has allowed UN member-states and all interested parties to state their opinion and arguments in written form by April 17, 2009. Interested parties will also have time until July 17 to respond to the claims and arguments of other parties participating in the proceedings.
Interesting the date 17!!! On 17th of February Kosovo declared the Independence in coordination with US, EU and G7 countries.
Right move of ICJ in right date. You should get the message.
Good. Let them speak. I've yet to hear one single convincing argument for why Kosovo should be independent, and everything I've heard has come from international backers, not any Albanian.
Of course Kosovo is invated to participate at ICJ. There can not be trade without innkeeper! I really wonder what can be intention of Serbia in very clear and legal process of Kosovo independence since '80 and especially since '97, '99 an on?!
Kosovo independence is a done deal, there is no way back, there is no reason for way back.
Good luck Kosovo on your own way...
Good. Let them speak. I've yet to hear one single convincing argument for why Kosovo should be independent, and everything I've heard has come from international backers, not any Albanian.
Of course Kosovo is invated to participate at ICJ. There can not be trade without innkeeper! I really wonder what can be intention of Serbia in very clear and legal process of Kosovo independence since '80 and especially since '97, '99 an on?!
Kosovo independence is a done deal, there is no way back, there is no reason for way back.
Good luck Kosovo on your own way...
The court has allowed UN member-states and all interested parties to state their opinion and arguments in written form by April 17, 2009. Interested parties will also have time until July 17 to respond to the claims and arguments of other parties participating in the proceedings.
Interesting the date 17!!! On 17th of February Kosovo declared the Independence in coordination with US, EU and G7 countries.
Right move of ICJ in right date. You should get the message.
Time for ICJ to get the truth. Only Albanians can show the world why they deserve full independence. Serbian lies are about to get the final burial, which paradoxically will uncover the ultimate truth for all the people living in this part of the world
Mike, your previous post shows you haven't been listening to opposing views.
Heck, wouldn't you be at least a little bit curious to learn why independence was declared anyway?
"I've yet to hear one single convincing argument for why Kosovo should be independent, and everything I've heard has come from international backers, not any Albanian."
And I have not heard a single convincing argument for why you should decide if I should be independent.
Why should person A decide what person B do, as long as B does not harm A?
--
I suppose this is like any other case before any court.
Witnesses and character witnesses do get called, but all a character witness can give is their opinion on what moral standing the accused is of.
At the end of the day the question still remains. Was it legal to do such and such. In this case was UDI in accordance with international law? It doesn't matter how a thief felt about the object he stole. Bottom line, the object was stolen.
You can say that you needed a car desperately and it was a car you have already rented before but it still doesn't give you the right just to take it. You can rent it again (autonomy) or go and look for another one but you cannot just drive away with it.
Stealing is exactly that. No matter how Mr Wood spins it, it is still stealing.
Interesting the date 17!!! On 17th of February Kosovo declared the Independence in coordination with US, EU and G7 countries.
Right move of ICJ in right date. You should get the message.
(Ilir, 21 October 2008 18:37)
--
I think you should be elected to represent the Albanian case given your extremely strong argumentative skills and your high recommendation count. But I will tell you a secret that you missed, both April and Albanian both begin with the letter A so you are onto a sure winner there. Damn, looks like the Albanians have one over us here.
"You can say that you needed a car desperately and it was a car you have already rented before but it still doesn't give you the right just to take it. You can rent it again (autonomy) or go and look for another one but you cannot just drive away with it.
Stealing is exactly that. No matter how Mr Wood spins it, it is still stealing."
(Peggy, 21 October 2008 22:04)
Good point Peggy... Let me also add that "the Car" was owned by another "Driver"(Ottoman empire) till 1912, and was not legally incorporated in the "ownership" by the "then" new owner Serbia. (BIG LEGAL MISTAKE).
Let us talk for a moment about the passengers in the car. This are the same "passengers" then and now. So as you say, the new owner after 1912(who never legalised his ownership), was "renting" the car to the driver and the passengers... Do you remeber when the"owner" tor the "renting" legal agreement disregarding THE LOW-LEGALITY, and the driver and the "passengers" were tortured and killed.
Today, hundred(100) years from the day that "Serbia" stole the car, the car is still not moving and is not going anywhere.It never will. It stays were it allways was. The driver and it's passengers are finally going to look after the "car" themselfs, so the car is going to look new,strong and shiny. Of course I understand that you have and will use other arguments about your "ownership". No problem, continue doing what you always did: bla bla your side of the story. The title of our topic this time, is that now it is albanians turn to bla bla their case, for the write of the "ownership" of the car, while being the driver and the passenger in the mean time. First time after 100(hundred) years. We have a lot of "bla bla" to say, and I hope you will listen as well, Peggy.
Always your neighbor,
Dardhan
Kosovars need just to tell the judges what has happened in Kosova from the '80's to June 1999. Serbia sent its army to Kosova to kill civilians and burn down everything they could. All the world saw it and acted on behalf of Kosovars who could not do it themselves. After some years foreigners were no longer in position to govern Kosovars and a decision had to be taken on the future of the Kosovars. This decision could in no way be to allow Serbia govern again Kosovars. No normal human would decide to allow the "butcher" govern again a country where only some nine years ago committed genocide in the very same place. Independence is so easy to be defended and the world has to be reminded again of the crimes committed by the Serbian state against Kosovars. Maybe then the Serbian government will really think wisely and apologize for the crimes committed and recognize Kosova. I doubt though that Serbia has wise politicians to do so (but one who is not in position to act).
Albania has long experience in winning in world courts, remember the Corfu incident, Albania made Brithish and US in that time to double think, so now we decided to be allies.
The resort to the ICJ over the Kosovo issue may turn out to be a double-edged sword for Serbia. Now that the Kosovar side has been given the chance to plead its side of the case before the World Court, things could get interesting. We may see the invocation in court of the conventions and UN resolutions on genocide, apartheid, self-determination, decolonization, and much more. It could turn out to be a Western Sahara moment. When the ICJ judges give their opinion in this case, a year or two from now, the outcome may not be to Belgrade's liking. An adverse ruling from the ICJ in this case may have one up-side: it may allow more sensible Serbian politicians to finally come to terms with a reality that's been clear for a number of years now.
In any case, Kosovo is not going to return to Serbian rule.
The ICJ case is shaping up to be very interesting, and will now, officially, allow us an opportunity to air all of the crimes and sins committed by serbia, during the milosevic era and long before. it will make for very long and very interesting (and horrifying) reading, and at the end of it, blgd will never get the mantle that they have sought.
i have great confidence in our side, and some confidence that the icj will understand and accept it.
so in terms of an international legal issue, what serbia has supposedly hoped for (illegal precedent, bla bla bla)will never happen. we'll just have the usual mucking things up, and postponement of progress.
BUT, we will have consolidated a powerful legal position for Kosovo/a, who may then (i hope) take serbia to court for the violations of human rights, and so many other evils.
Ilir:
Serbs could also say that ICJ chose cut-off dates because K-albanian pogrom of 2004 began on 17th March. Is nonsense.
justice:
> Another cold shower for Serbia.
ICJ's decision to invite K-albanians to participate can hardly be seen as a victory. As one of the two parties involved, would be non-sensical to do otherwise. But if such is not your opinion, suggest you change your 'moniker'.
Jan Andersen:
> Why should person A decide what person B do, as long as B does not harm A?
Statement is fine as long as definition of 'harm' has no correlation with the 'action' of B. Is not the case.
An ordinary Kosovar would exclaim: “Thanks a lot Serbia” You are once again doing a huge favor to Kosova, since our politician at this stage are so incompetent to do such a publicity over Kosova and its needs. In other words, Serbia constantly keeps International Community alert on Kosova existence.
"Kosovars need just to tell the judges what has happened in Kosova from the '80's to June 1999."
I'm sure that they will very interested to hear of a concerted campaign of threats, coercion, intimadation, beatings, murders and ethnic cleansing carried out by the K-Albanian extreemists on loyal Yugoslav citizens since the 1980s, not to mention the destruction of churches, which is a war crime by the way and the destruction of schools.
Its going to be a hoot, it really is. Besides what makes anyone think that the ICJ will decide in favour of Pristina. If it does that, it would undermine international law and order by giving individual ethnic groups the green light to seek a course of seperatism and individual states to settle old scores by war.
"Number mystic" is not a good argument. Besides, 1+7 = 8 and "8" is not considered to be a lucky number. I omit the details and all this is a silliness anyway.
Of course Kosovo is invated to participate at ICJ. There can not be trade without innkeeper! I really wonder what can be intention of Serbia in very clear and legal process of Kosovo independence since '80 and especially since '97, '99 an on?!
Kosovo independence is a done deal, there is no way back, there is no reason for way back.
Good luck Kosovo on your own way...
The court has allowed UN member-states and all interested parties to state their opinion and arguments in written form by April 17, 2009. Interested parties will also have time until July 17 to respond to the claims and arguments of other parties participating in the proceedings.
Interesting the date 17!!! On 17th of February Kosovo declared the Independence in coordination with US, EU and G7 countries.
Right move of ICJ in right date. You should get the message.
Interesting the date 17!!! On 17th of February Kosovo declared the Independence in coordination with US, EU and G7 countries.
Right move of ICJ in right date. You should get the message.
(Ilir, 21 October 2008 18:37)
--
I think you should be elected to represent the Albanian case given your extremely strong argumentative skills and your high recommendation count. But I will tell you a secret that you missed, both April and Albanian both begin with the letter A so you are onto a sure winner there. Damn, looks like the Albanians have one over us here.
Good. Let them speak. I've yet to hear one single convincing argument for why Kosovo should be independent, and everything I've heard has come from international backers, not any Albanian.
I suppose this is like any other case before any court.
Witnesses and character witnesses do get called, but all a character witness can give is their opinion on what moral standing the accused is of.
At the end of the day the question still remains. Was it legal to do such and such. In this case was UDI in accordance with international law? It doesn't matter how a thief felt about the object he stole. Bottom line, the object was stolen.
You can say that you needed a car desperately and it was a car you have already rented before but it still doesn't give you the right just to take it. You can rent it again (autonomy) or go and look for another one but you cannot just drive away with it.
Stealing is exactly that. No matter how Mr Wood spins it, it is still stealing.
The resort to the ICJ over the Kosovo issue may turn out to be a double-edged sword for Serbia. Now that the Kosovar side has been given the chance to plead its side of the case before the World Court, things could get interesting. We may see the invocation in court of the conventions and UN resolutions on genocide, apartheid, self-determination, decolonization, and much more. It could turn out to be a Western Sahara moment. When the ICJ judges give their opinion in this case, a year or two from now, the outcome may not be to Belgrade's liking. An adverse ruling from the ICJ in this case may have one up-side: it may allow more sensible Serbian politicians to finally come to terms with a reality that's been clear for a number of years now.
In any case, Kosovo is not going to return to Serbian rule.
Time for ICJ to get the truth. Only Albanians can show the world why they deserve full independence. Serbian lies are about to get the final burial, which paradoxically will uncover the ultimate truth for all the people living in this part of the world
"I've yet to hear one single convincing argument for why Kosovo should be independent, and everything I've heard has come from international backers, not any Albanian."
And I have not heard a single convincing argument for why you should decide if I should be independent.
Why should person A decide what person B do, as long as B does not harm A?
--
"Number mystic" is not a good argument. Besides, 1+7 = 8 and "8" is not considered to be a lucky number. I omit the details and all this is a silliness anyway.
Ilir:
Serbs could also say that ICJ chose cut-off dates because K-albanian pogrom of 2004 began on 17th March. Is nonsense.
justice:
> Another cold shower for Serbia.
ICJ's decision to invite K-albanians to participate can hardly be seen as a victory. As one of the two parties involved, would be non-sensical to do otherwise. But if such is not your opinion, suggest you change your 'moniker'.
Jan Andersen:
> Why should person A decide what person B do, as long as B does not harm A?
Statement is fine as long as definition of 'harm' has no correlation with the 'action' of B. Is not the case.
Kosovars need just to tell the judges what has happened in Kosova from the '80's to June 1999. Serbia sent its army to Kosova to kill civilians and burn down everything they could. All the world saw it and acted on behalf of Kosovars who could not do it themselves. After some years foreigners were no longer in position to govern Kosovars and a decision had to be taken on the future of the Kosovars. This decision could in no way be to allow Serbia govern again Kosovars. No normal human would decide to allow the "butcher" govern again a country where only some nine years ago committed genocide in the very same place. Independence is so easy to be defended and the world has to be reminded again of the crimes committed by the Serbian state against Kosovars. Maybe then the Serbian government will really think wisely and apologize for the crimes committed and recognize Kosova. I doubt though that Serbia has wise politicians to do so (but one who is not in position to act).
Albania has long experience in winning in world courts, remember the Corfu incident, Albania made Brithish and US in that time to double think, so now we decided to be allies.
The ICJ case is shaping up to be very interesting, and will now, officially, allow us an opportunity to air all of the crimes and sins committed by serbia, during the milosevic era and long before. it will make for very long and very interesting (and horrifying) reading, and at the end of it, blgd will never get the mantle that they have sought.
i have great confidence in our side, and some confidence that the icj will understand and accept it.
so in terms of an international legal issue, what serbia has supposedly hoped for (illegal precedent, bla bla bla)will never happen. we'll just have the usual mucking things up, and postponement of progress.
BUT, we will have consolidated a powerful legal position for Kosovo/a, who may then (i hope) take serbia to court for the violations of human rights, and so many other evils.
"You can say that you needed a car desperately and it was a car you have already rented before but it still doesn't give you the right just to take it. You can rent it again (autonomy) or go and look for another one but you cannot just drive away with it.
Stealing is exactly that. No matter how Mr Wood spins it, it is still stealing."
(Peggy, 21 October 2008 22:04)
Good point Peggy... Let me also add that "the Car" was owned by another "Driver"(Ottoman empire) till 1912, and was not legally incorporated in the "ownership" by the "then" new owner Serbia. (BIG LEGAL MISTAKE).
Let us talk for a moment about the passengers in the car. This are the same "passengers" then and now. So as you say, the new owner after 1912(who never legalised his ownership), was "renting" the car to the driver and the passengers... Do you remeber when the"owner" tor the "renting" legal agreement disregarding THE LOW-LEGALITY, and the driver and the "passengers" were tortured and killed.
Today, hundred(100) years from the day that "Serbia" stole the car, the car is still not moving and is not going anywhere.It never will. It stays were it allways was. The driver and it's passengers are finally going to look after the "car" themselfs, so the car is going to look new,strong and shiny. Of course I understand that you have and will use other arguments about your "ownership". No problem, continue doing what you always did: bla bla your side of the story. The title of our topic this time, is that now it is albanians turn to bla bla their case, for the write of the "ownership" of the car, while being the driver and the passenger in the mean time. First time after 100(hundred) years. We have a lot of "bla bla" to say, and I hope you will listen as well, Peggy.
Always your neighbor,
Dardhan
Mike, your previous post shows you haven't been listening to opposing views.
Heck, wouldn't you be at least a little bit curious to learn why independence was declared anyway?
"Kosovars need just to tell the judges what has happened in Kosova from the '80's to June 1999."
I'm sure that they will very interested to hear of a concerted campaign of threats, coercion, intimadation, beatings, murders and ethnic cleansing carried out by the K-Albanian extreemists on loyal Yugoslav citizens since the 1980s, not to mention the destruction of churches, which is a war crime by the way and the destruction of schools.
Its going to be a hoot, it really is. Besides what makes anyone think that the ICJ will decide in favour of Pristina. If it does that, it would undermine international law and order by giving individual ethnic groups the green light to seek a course of seperatism and individual states to settle old scores by war.
An ordinary Kosovar would exclaim: “Thanks a lot Serbia” You are once again doing a huge favor to Kosova, since our politician at this stage are so incompetent to do such a publicity over Kosova and its needs. In other words, Serbia constantly keeps International Community alert on Kosova existence.
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