Ahtisaari: No EU without Kosovo recognition

The Serbian syndrome never fails from showing. I am talking about how great you Serbian people are at convincing yourselves that all your lost battles are victories.

Its simple to find out. Ask any Albanian in Kosova whether they are better now or under Milosevic. Ask any Serb weather they think they have more control over Kosova now or during Milosevic?

Well of course you have the usual Jovan's and Peggy's, the hardcore bigots to whom we Albanians are some sort of cannibalistic nation who kill our own by the thousands, who burn our own homes, who violently force ourselves out of Kosova by the millions just to make "innocent" Serbia look guilty.And as usual, in the eyes of these bigots who do a pathetic job at appearing as moderates, Serbia is never guilty for anything and Serbia always wins. Serbia is the greatest nation on earth and envious great world powers want to destroy her, but they will never achieve their evil plan because Serbia is the greatest and the most God righteous state in the world.

Peace.

As regards Serbia’s refusal to ever recognize Kosovo’s independence, Ahtisaari said that Belgrade would have to do so if it wanted to join the EU.

"You can't be poking the EU in the eye [while] saying you want to join EU," he stressed. "

What is he throwing a tantrum about? Firstly not all EU members have accepted Kosovo's UDI. Secondly, EU members have already stated that Belgrade's recognition of Kosovo's UDI is not a condition for EU membership. And Kosovo can never get past the Russian and Chinese vetoes at the UN. Sounds to me more like the rantings of a frustrated man whose proposals have failed!

The fact that he admitted having told the parties back in 2006 that secession was inevitable shows that he was not an honest broker all along. He was and still is really nothing more than Washington's lackey all this time!

Ahtisari!! your PLAN was NEVER approved by the UNSC therefore it is not a legal document and basis for kosovo final solution.

And Serbia can never be COWED by you. takenote what FM Vuk said if kosovo recognition was a "condition" for EU membership. Serbia will say NO!!!

"Well over 65 percent of the wealth of the world has recognized. That matters."
So if you are rich you can brake the law and do what ever you want... Quite unbelievable statement from UN mediator. Here in Finland Mr. Ahtisaari has lost all his credibility already long time a go because of his lust for money, which he is not even trying to hide. And this last statement stains his image even more.

Why is this guy still in the picture? His plan was never debated at UN because it would've been rejected but somehow he thinks now it is legitimate.

Isn't EU saying that recognition of Kosovo is not a requirement in order to join EU? Is Mr. Athisaari now speaking for EU with their approval?

So many questions here which don't have answers.

Mr. Athisaari, your plan was thrown out of UN and just because you are back in the news doesn't make you the supreme authority of the world.

Kindly step aside and take your rejected plan with you.

"You cannot go into an independent country and do whatever you like. Even if you are Russia." - Ahtisaari.
This is precisely what the US/NATO/Greater German 'Rough Riders' did to Serbia. Double standards are so blatant here. Ahtisaari's arrogance leads him to believe that he can speak for Europe and the 'rich boys' while simultaneously denigrating Paraguay and the majority UN contention. It seems to me that his denial stems from some form of substance abuse and I regard his recent accolade as something bordering on a universal disgrace.

Micheal Breathnach
Ireland

" “It really doesn't matter if Paraguay hasn't recognized," Ahtisaari said. "Well over 65 percent of the wealth of the world has recognized. That matters."

well, that´s exactly what our dear friends are being told, but nevertheless, it´s wrong.

but I understand quite well HE has to say something like that...it´s very likely aimed at the K-albanians who have to be kept calm...


"As regards Serbia’s refusal to ever recognize Kosovo’s independence, Ahtisaari said that Belgrade would have to do so if it wanted to join the EU."

"would have" ...so now they are even asking this individual, in regard of questions on which he does not even have a say?
interesting. but that´s how "journalism" works, right?


"You can't be poking the EU in the eye [while] saying you want to join EU," he stressed.

I´d answer: you can´t be poking international law in the eye saying you are the moral instance... and that´s what you need if you want to lead in international affairs.

so, the finn could again be quite wrong...


"The former UN mediator said that very soon after taking up his post he had sent a private message to all sides that Kosovo’s secession was inevitable."

so much for his true "mediation"! he´s even openly saying that he was promoting the breach of international law right from his start!



“"[I said] in light of what had happened in Kosovo, the return of Kosovo to Serbia is not a viable option," adding that “since March 2006 no one should have had any illusion what my plan was going to be”.

so, after k-albanian terrorists killed innocent civilians, who were drinking their coffee in bars and cafe´s the only thing "viable" is giving in to TERROR?

this man really devaluates the nobel-prize, indeed. I wonder what will happen with this prize-decision when the ICJ finds this Kosovo-illusion to be against international law!

"Ahtisaari also dismissed any comparisons with Georgia and South Ossetia.

"We did Kosovo within the UN framework. In Georgia there was not even an attempt," he argued. "You cannot go into an independent country and do whatever you like. Even if you are Russia."

well, even that is wrong. the NATO-AGGRESSION came WITHOUT UN-approval.

this man should really be given an update on the real events...since it seems he does not know what he´s talking about!

"Ahtisari was awarded the Nobel Peace Prize for 2008 last week."

Alfred Nobel would be spinning in his grave if he knew...

Ahtisaari, you just said in that comment, "You cannot go into an independent country and do whatever you like..."
I'm sorry, but what exactly did NATO do, followed by the illegal aiding in the secession of a territory later with your pathetic and one-sided document.

"We did Kosovo within the UN framework.

Within the UN framework? What are you talking about. I don’t remember UN passing your one sided resolution. Resolution 1244 is still in force. Until we see something different, you can try convince yourself and your K-Albanian drug suppliers otherwise.

It's really unnerving to read that what really matters is what the wealthy states think. What happened to democracy and the rule of law ? I hope that the world will reject this 'might is right' attitude.

Yes Mr.Ahtisaari says that only money matters...
He is the typical representative of this thinking which is hopefully go to history in not so distant future. This financial crisis is a precursor of greater changes the West will have to go throgh.
Nothing new from Mr.Ahtisaari - and one can't expect anything new from the man who belongs with both his feet to the era of deception.

"You cannot go into an independent country and do whatever you like. "

This is what america has done to Serba and countless countries all over the world! It is occupying KiM as we speak.

what rubbish this man talks, The French said otherwise last week.

Its funny i always thought the EU was a democratic union which each country could express its opinion. If this is not the case that each nation is not allowed its own voice then why did we bother fighting Hitler? Surley what he tried was a Europeon Union of sorts and just as democratic.

Spain, Cyprus, Greece, Slovakia, and Romania are all EU members and do not recognize Kosovo.

Last I checked, Ahtisaari is a private citizen, not any EU official.

His words and opinions are about as legally valid as any of our words here on this site.

Serbia was promised Kosovo should be separated from the path to EU, end of discussion. Ahtisaari can take his lies and his Nobel prize elsewhere. Even with 1000 Nobel prizes Kosovo will never be independent.

And why is he talking of the wealth of countries? Just count the number of countries and stop the propaganda. 50 countries have recognized and 142 countries have not.

Ahtisaari is correct, the EU is an economic organisation (as well as political and social), so if Serbia wants to become a member of the EU it should reflect what the majority of the worlds economy supports and this is an independent Kosovo. De facto Serbia has already lost Kosovo for good, even Serbian officials must realise by now that there is no chance of reintegrating Kosovo back into Serbia, Kosovo's independence is a done deal. Also the majority of the EU recognise Kosovo now, Slovakia, Greece, Romania have almost accepted the Kosovo passports so they may within the next year recognise Kosovo under pressure and influence. Cyprus may follow Greece. Then Spain will be the only EU country left which doesn't recognise Kosovo, so they are likely to recognise been the only member state which doesn't. Basically Kosovo is slowly but surely gaining recognition. So Serbia should have to recognise Kosovo before it joins the EU. I believe that the UK, Netherlands or France will veto Serbia's entry if it fails to not recognise Kosovo. I support what Ahtisaari says; so what if Somalia doesn't recognise Kosovo? Its the nations which do that count, for example European nations, north American and rich pacific nations. Ahtisaari is correct.

why on earth does serbia want to join this bullying corrupt organisation when many ordinary EU citizens want to get out? The EU is neither democratic nor fair and will only use Serbia and not give her fair treatment. They want serbia to recognise kosovo as independent because it lets them off the hook and saves their embarrassment from answering awkward questions!The Eu needs serbia more than Serbia needs them and in my opinion Serbia would be better off without the EU- thay have better countries to do business with and certainly better friends in the world!

i really cant stomach this man , its very clear he has a chip on his shoulder about russia and this is his way of disrespecting them by proxy .

"You cannot go into an independent country and do whatever you like. Even if you are Russia." - Ahtisaari.
This is precisely what the US/NATO/Greater German 'Rough Riders' did to Serbia. Double standards are so blatant here. Ahtisaari's arrogance leads him to believe that he can speak for Europe and the 'rich boys' while simultaneously denigrating Paraguay and the majority UN contention. It seems to me that his denial stems from some form of substance abuse and I regard his recent accolade as something bordering on a universal disgrace.

Micheal Breathnach
Ireland
(Micheal Breathnach, 19 October 2008 14:14)

Indeed, the hyprocrisy from this man is breathtaking but then again we should not be too surprised from this western imperialist stooge. As regards to the Nobel Prize, one Mr Henry Kissinger also received this accolade. This was the man responsible for the overthrow of the democratic government of Salvador Allende in Chile in 1973 which saw thousands of Chileans murdered by General Pinochet, the bombing of neutral Laos and Cambodia in '72 which cost upwards of 500,000 lives, the invasion of Cyprus in 1974 and to round it off the Indonesian invasion of Portuguese Timor in December 1975 which resulted in a brutal 24 year occupation claiming upwards of 250,000 lives. A war criminal and mass murderer who walks freely around the West giving lectures and after dinner speeches.

You're right Jovan, Alfred Nobel is spinning in his grave.

International justice my foot. Karadzic is in the ha'penny place compared to this guy.

Well it looks a little like the man wants to protect his legacy.

Perhaps he is right, perhaps it will become an EU demand. Then again equally perhaps we don't know what will happen in the future, how things will change.

Ahtisaari, we know very well that you hate Russia and Serbia, and that you have been given Nobel Prize. But now calm down.

Mr. Ahtisaari you are a realist, and I congratulate you for being very frank. I also agree with you that the idea that Serbia will in any way, shape, or form control the Kosovar Albanians again, at least without the use of brutal force (which some posters here wouldn't mind), is an illusion for nationalist circles only.

Serbian government knows all this,but Serbia its trying to keep Kosova hostage and under developed,so no investors will ever even think of investing in Kosova and as result it can still have influence as well as dictate in Kosova and the region.

You can't be poking the EU in the eye [while] saying you want to join EU,

Serbia obviously thinks it can,also Serbia should be told that Recognition of Kosova will not open the door for EU entry,until Serbia it acknowledges the wrongs and apologises to Kosova-r people for its deeds for last 100 years as well as pay war reparation, and compensation to people.Only than EU entry should be considered.Thanks

"His plan was never debated at UN because it would've been rejected but somehow he thinks now it is legitimate."

Peggy,

You must be joking while saying the above.
Give me one reason why it should have been debated at UNSC when your friend Russia threatened to use veto to any solution that doesn't not satisfy Serbia, in other words keeping Kosova under Serbia's sovereignity. I am preatty sure that you and us here are not that naive. Russia showed its true face when recognising South Ossetia and Abkhazia....what it cares for.

Oh dear, Mr. Ahtisaari seems to be throwing a temper tantrum. Things didn't work out the way you were hoping they would.

Ah, the world's "wealthy" countries seem to be, well in your eyes, more, how would I put it? Viable in terms of opinion? What you forget is that even countries like Paraguay are 3 times as less corrupt as countries such as the U.S. Yes you may try and dispute this fact, but just consider media. Here’s an interesting question. It might shock you. Which country has a greater population of people, who are deemed "poor," the U.S. or Sudan? Don't be fooled by the White House... it is nowhere near as pure as its general colour. And now, with the world rolling so effortlessly close to the edge of economical stability, I ask you, who will be left better off when it all crashes, Paraguay, or perhaps the U.S.? It might shock you once again to know, the U.S. has been built on credit. Really think someone would be willing to pump money into the thousands of roads that are out in the Nevada Desert? Hurricane Katrina proved a valuable point.

In terms of the EU, you may consider the fact that there are quite a lot of Serbs who are just as happy without it. It has been a U.S. puppet for too long, and its strings are starting to stretch. The EU exists so that they have some form of political power when the U.S. comes crashing and Russia takes over. Might not before for a few years, but they are preparing. And once again, how will the EU help Serbia? Will it pay our bills? Will it put food on the table? Or will it simply set up the cheapest known labour in the whole of Europe?

The EU, what a sad joke. It's about as straight as The Hague.

... Ah but if only people had not funded the destruction of Yugoslavia.

Kosovo recognition is not a condition yet and by the time it could be the ICJ will have already ruled in Serbia's favour so it won't be an issue.

i also wanted to say something about '65%' of the world's wealth. is this before, or after, national debts are accounted for in gdp?

for example, japan's debt is nearly 200% of its gdp. what wealth are we talking about here? sounds like the exact same wealth that yugoslavia had during tito's time...all fake.

it is said that foreigners own 40% of american debt. so, what fraction of the us wealth can be applied to the 'recognition' side, and how much can be attributed to 'non-recognition?' for example, what about the bit of the US that is owned by china?

cookin' the books. it's what makes great civilizations even greater...creating wealth that's not really there...smoke and mirrors. and, when it is there, it's based on the rape of other civilizations. isn't this right, british crown?

Dear readers,

pleace do not draw connection marks between average Finns/Finland and Mr. Ahtisaari. Immediatelly he acme president to Finland it was clear that he did not know or care anything about country. He had used to live elitist or colonialist live abroud decades. He and his wife came soon permanent material in finnish comedies. Exceptional was that on the end of his season no one asked him for second season. After that he started to sit in different boards of big firms while occasional acting mediator on the behalf of Nato or his own company. So please do not be upset what he talks and forget that he has some finnish origins.

And why is he talking of the wealth of countries? Just count the number of countries and stop the propaganda. 50 countries have recognized and 142 countries have not.
(kufr, 19 October 2008 14:30)

Formally recognized by 51 out of 192 United Nations (UN) members.

101 out of the remaining 141 United Nation members soon to recognize the Republic of Kosova...

Yes 65 percent of the wealth of the world - extracted from how many nations? Look at the wealth and status of all former colonial nations. For it was from the sweat, blood, tears, colonial rule and raw resources of other nations that they built their wealth. Ahtisarri you can take your trophy and documents and hang them in your home, but not in the halls of civilization - you don't deserve it.

"Serbia had no option but to accept this state of affairs."

Serbia is refusing to acknowledge the state of affairs for the last 20 years.

sounds to me like the finns have an inferiority complex over russia. so, they are using somebody else's gun to get back a little serbia.

hmmmmm...do we see parallels with wwii?

"Kosovo can never get past the Russian and Chinese vetoes at the UN"

Serbia will say yes first, if it ever wants to join EU. Do Serbs really think that EU will leave Kosova hanging in limbo forever and accept Serbia? Out of 27 EU countires only Spain and Cyprus have not recognized Kosova or its passports. What diplomats say in the media and what they say privately are two different things, Tadic knows.

"His plan was never debated at UN because it would've been rejected but somehow he thinks now it is legitimate."

Peggy,

You must be joking while saying the above.
Give me one reason why it should have been debated at UNSC when your friend Russia threatened to use veto to any solution that doesn't not satisfy Serbia, in other words keeping Kosova under Serbia's sovereignity. I am preatty sure that you and us here are not that naive. Russia showed its true face when recognising South Ossetia and Abkhazia....what it cares for.
(EA, 19 October 2008 16:18)

Bottom line EA. We know why it was never debated and don't need to hear it from you as well, but there you are, it was NOT debated and never will.

BTW, it's not only Russia but China as well.

Athisaari plan was as good as REJECTED. He can take it with him and put it in the rubbish bin for all it's worth.

known fact that many K-albanians were being pushed to leave their homes by ruthless KLA-terrorists, who by doing so, wanted to create the impression of a mass-exodus fleeing from the serbian security forces in the international media-coverage.
(Jovan, 19 October 2008 23:42)

As always Jovan is Jovan.
Ok Jovan, we already know that your knowledge of ancient history very narrow.
Unfortunately when the ancient history is concerned everybody can believe whatever he wishes.
You of course chose to base yours on Serbian angle of the history of Balkans.
I don’t think we can do anything to remedy that.
However, please stop talking nonsense. The majority of the people that were expelled from Kosovo are still alive and they can tell you the stories of who expelled them. So whatever you do Jovan, please write whatever you want for Illyrians but do not insult the dead of the 1999 war.
I hope that B92 will not censor this comment (as it has done in numerous occasions) as it is not intended as an offensive comment. It is simply a response to an insulting comment posted here.

In response to Blero's attack on Jovan.

Blero, your the one who has no idea. I've been living in Australia for the last 15 years. Right now im living in Novi Sad and attending uni. I have for years watched the double standards of the western nations and how the serbs were demonized. You really think Serbs were the ones who kicked all the albanians out? Are you kidding? Heres a little thought for you. What kind of sizeable force did the serbian army represent in 1999. We had been fighting against separatists. I still know Croatians and Bosnians, even in Australia, who's parents don't even agree with the war. That say that even though Tito died, that Yugoslavia shouldn't have. But hey, what is going to stop the westerners when they find a good enough reason to bring down the strongest and closest thing to communism in Europe? Why is it that the Serbian entity of Krajina was ethnically cleansed and everyone (INCLUDING PEACEKEEPERS) stood by and did nothing?! Why is it that NATO(an american organisation) was never taken down for bombing Serbia for 78 days with bombs and munition that are against every weapons pact in the world? There is still plenty of depleted uranium in areas of Serbia. Even here in Vojvodina, in Fruska gora, there are discoveries of unexploded bombs.

Not to mention, how many serbs were in Kosovo before the war? how many are left? You think that we were able to force out all of those albanians, when we didn't even have enough strength to defend our own people? We weren't the ones who started the war. You can thank your KLA buddies for that. And how ironic, that once the U.S. had placed the KLA on a list of world terrorist groups, only then to support thaci and the rest of those war criminals. And they helped them head the government powers in Kosovo. What happened there? You want democratic? Here, just outside the city area of Novi Sad, still stands the ruins of what used to be a public TV building which was struck with a tomahawk missile. To show all you "democratic do-gooders" just how nice the U.S. is.

Not to mention, the KLA was smart enough not to wear uniforms in most areas. Or in proper terms, they never bothered. They wanted a war, and what did they expect? The Serbs to sit by while they were ethnically cleansed and forced out of Kosovo. We retaliated with whatever we had. You want to blame someone for the war, go tell thaci how you feel.

And another thing, why is it when they had the trial of a Serbian soldier on here (forgive me but i cannot remember the exact name, if need be I will), where an albanian woman who said she witnessed his crimes, claims to have been able to hear bodies dropping off from a bridge into water, even though the bridge was 2km+ away from where she was. And that she was on fire and was able to wipe off her clothes. Where in hell is even a shred of truth?

Kosovo will always remain Serbian. Regardless of some EU corrupted politician throwing a tantrum, or even some unilateral (illegal) declaration. I know that soon, maybe not for a few decades even, Russia will be the new world power. And only then will there be some form of international law upheld.

CCCC

Looks like Jovan and I have been labeled as bigots now.

I suppose the truth is just too much for some people to handle.
They have to attack the truth and it's messengers with all the weapons at their disposal which are lies, propaganda and personal attacks.

I can label these people too, but I will not sink to their level. If I don't agree with what they say I will attack what they say, but personal attacks I will leave to them.

The truth hurts I know but it cannot be stopped. It's coming and so brace yourself for it. Attacking someone by calling them bigots is not going to work. It only exposes you for the character you yourselves have.

Your hero Mr. Athisaari has already disgraced himself and the prize he won. His supporters will end up the same.

To Jovan #38.

Known fact you say!!!

Is this what you have been told from Slobo, Radovan, Arkan and their friends.

They must have told you this when you were still watching "Lisa in the Wanderword". I am sure in that time you believed everything you were told.

Update: Recognizing Kosovo is a precondition whoever wants to join the EU (ask Montenegro), it's only a behind the scene precondition.

Take my word for it.

Jovan:
"I´d answer: you can´t be poking international law in the eye saying you are the moral instance... and that´s what you need if you want to lead in international affairs.."


And what kind of international law was so desperately defended by Serbia when was trying to expatriate a million of its own ex-citizens?

And what is your moral instance about that?

(Ataman (back from KosMet), 20 October 2008 06:03)

Welcome back Ataman.
I can see that you managed to go freely and talk to both nationalities freely then.
None of that hostile Albanian attitude we are “used to hear” about from likes of Jovan and Peggy!
For correction purpose Ataman only, you were not in KosMet as you put it: You were in the Republic of Kosovo.
I have told you before, if your intentions are not hostile you are always welcomed in our country.
You are welcomed to visit any Albanian in this discussion (including myself) for a nice Birre Peje” next time you decide to pay us a visit.

Dear B92, you should avoid publishing insults, open racism and defamation, since it it is eaven against your code.

Interesting that Ahtisaari is pretty much echoing pristina just about word for word. Certainly lends credence to the viewpoint that he was bought & paid for by Thaci's regime back when he was supposed to be working impartially for the UN.

Small wonder then that he likes to emphasise one of the only criteria by which those who recognise K-albanian 'pseudo-state' are in a majority - that of GDP.

And sad to see the value of the Nobel 'peace' prize so devalued. With Ahtisaari's award, medal is now not worth much more than the intrinsic value of the gold.


EA:
Ahtisaari's plan was formulated without the agreement of one of the two sides in the conflict. As such, Russia was perfectly entitled to veto a document that failed to take that into account. A lasting solution to Kosovo has to be agreed to. It cannot be imposed.

And that is why 'the plan' is only good for toilet paper.


It's a Done Deal:
No-one has recognised 'Kosova'. And doesn't surprise me that you would put so much importance on the 'acceptance of 'pseudo-state's passports - partial or otherwise. Taiwanese passports have been accepted in Australia for years, but Australia hasn't recognised Taiwan for well over 30 of those years.

Means little.


Jarina:
Cannot recognise 'Republic of Kosova' - doesn't exist - in real or 'pseudo-world' - but perhaps on 'Mars' along with those imaginary upcoming 101 recognitions.


Funcakes:
So 'might is right' is part of your justification? Sad. And as for the actual proportion of the 'worlds wealth' that recognises 'pseudo-state', is far more likely that it is shrinking than growing, or haven't you been paying attention recently?


roberto:
Perhaps if you capitalised the entire sentence, might convince more people. Reality is that the inclusion of Serbia is far more important to the EU than is the issue of Kosovo. And try to stop living in the past. Serbia has changed & is still changing. And it's version of democracy is far livelier than the stagnant version you have in the US & I might add, we have here in Oz.


dan-ch:
See above. Also note that the outcome of the ICJ ruling will no doubt precede Serbia's prospective accession to the EU & therefore may well have a significant bearing on the outcome.


johnny:
I find the last word of your post at odds with the rest of it. But then again, am just another of those 'pseudo-moderate bigot's right.


blero:
Have no doubt that elements of the KLA 'encouraged' their brethren to add to the exodus as 'Jovan' stated. PR war was undoubtably more important than the ground-war & KLA's foundations were in 'terrorism'.


and others:
Is one thing to blackmail or bribe states into recognising 'pseudo-state'. Is quite another to try the same tactic on Serbia as simply will not work. Bottom line is that Tadic will not survive in government if he tries to - even if he really wants to.

If brussels really is pre-conditioning such, then Serbia will not join the EU. Period.

And I doubt very much that this is part of 'brussel's game plan.

Which is why any condition of recognition of 'pseudo-state', if it exists, will ultimately fall by the way-side.

This was a well said Mr. Ahtisaari. In just a few words he explains everything.
I wonder how long is going to take for Serbia until she recognized her new sister Kosovo?

Since Ben invited me so kindly - I could not resist and I was in KosMet, returning at 4 AM today. You know, I have my own "INAT", too. And while some people let them drive in a fancy car, use someone else's budget and this way can become Kosovo experts overnight.... I drove MY OWN CAR and as usual, used my own money.

How about that, Mr. Ahtisaari (and others)?

All I can say: it's very different out there than what is up in the air. I wasn't long enough, but met very nice people of both ethnic backgrounds. Serbs and Albanians were super-happy, I am not a reporter and begun to tell things which are not for reporters or Ahtisaari.

I do not want to "cheat" these nice people, so since I said firmly, I am not journalist and not associated with any newspaper, I keep the details they said for myself amy my close circle.

Regarding the mishaps 30 years ago there is some plausible explanation I did find in Bradt Kosovo book. I do not want to tell in detail, nothing wrong, actually. One should buy that book and read.

That's it. Who can - should go there. And Qebaptore LaLa in Pec/Peja was really good. But with all due respect to their excellent dishes, I was in Pec not because of the qebaptore.

No EU without Kosovo recognition? This is good news. The power not to enter EU is within our grasp. All we have to do is not recognize Kosovo. Tadic will run into a wall attempting to join EU, but he will not be able to justify recognition of Kosovo to Serbian people. He's gone even before next elections.
EU goes its own way.
Serbia, free, independent..

Well you are seem to know better than a Nobel Peace Prize winner who got Serbia in the situation it is in in the first place.

Unluckily for you, might IS always right. That's just a universal rule, this planet and Serbia is no exception.

Actually it's 70% of the world wealth, and that means that alot more countries depend on the 70% than on the ever-shrinking 30%.

And once the world majority is reached, that's it. The pressure would be too high because the "international law" excuse would no longer work, seeing how more than half of the international community will have recognized.

Independence is a reality and denial is not a river in non-recognizer Egypt.

Who cares about joining the USA controlled, Muslim worshipping European Union? Serbia has friends; nations that will help Serbia.

ahtissari is 100% correct. serbia will NEVER become part of the EU so long as they continue to stir up trouble in the balkans, continue to intimidate and bully, continue to work towards the past (bad old days) instead of the future. so this is what the people of serbia must decide: which is your path -- autocracy, russia-style, allied with the usual cast of (bad) characters, or a future with democratic EU. it is a choice, and no, you cannot have it both ways.

for the hard-core nationalists, there is no problem, no ambiguity. fine. for the self-identified "moderates," this is a problem, big time, and not just about the eu but for the future of your country and the entire region. make the choice, but just be honest with yourselves... and with future generations.

roberto

After reading some of the comments made here i would like to say that the Ahtisari plan was aimed at settling the region and ensure that the region moves towards the EU as soon as possible, Ahtisari is correct in saying that Serbia will not be ale to join the EU without recognising the fact that Kosova is now independent and moving forward.

If you really take into account the EU and the former Yugoslavia you can see that the EU is in no way different, so Serbs and Kosovars can mover freely between the two countries.

You and i both know that Kosovo will never ever go back to Serbia FACT so what i don't understand is why Tadic is making the democratic people in Serbia suffer for the nationalist who still believe in Car Lazar (dream on)... As long as they continue this course Serbia will never Join the EU (SIMPLE)

Blero,

Please let me call it "Kosmet", we can "agree to disagree" on certain things. I wasn't keeping much secret about me to some people there and it was OK.

As for Ben: I was sarcastic, sorry. Ben did not invite me, just the opposite, he told me I am not welcome. And since I have my "Inat" I decided otherwise. Hope he will cool down. We did not met of course. I made a quick decision after people in Studenica told me, it's OK to drive there.

Thanks Blero for invitation, I did notice, many Albanians prefer to drink "Russian" tea and I am missing it in BG a lot because Serbs are not into tea at all. We have very good Ceylon black with natural rose flavor, I can bring.

As for bier... I know it's famous, appreciate your offer but I am 100% abstinent from alcohol if I am driving because I am a very bad driver anyway.

An I was DRIVING in Kosovo. :-)

I think Serbia should listen to this enlightened man and listen to the US and the EU as well. Nothing has helped Serbia by trying the other route; Antagonizing neighbors and those that they want to be a part of.

The sooner the better. It should learn from what happened to Georgia(There is much to learn there for those that look at the facts).

Jovan,

known fact that many K-albanians were being pushed to leave their homes by ruthless KLA-terrorists, who by doing so, wanted to create the impression of a mass-exodus fleeing from the serbian security forces in the international media-coverage.

many Albanians have confessed that they left only because of that pressure of armed men who were telling them to leave and afterwards burned their homes in order to put the blame on the Serbs.

truth is: most of the Albanians who were crossing the serbian-macedonian border left because of their fear in regard to the NATO-bombs... and then the rest was forced to leave by albanian criminals.

What a load of nonsense rubbish,so Serbs did none of that.

Ataman & Ben,

I raise my hat to both of you.

I also have deep respect towards Ataman's decision not to sing like a canary.

If only could join you on your next trip! But I'm stuck in Ahtisaari-land at the moment...

KLA's foundations were in 'terrorism'.
(peter, sydney, 20 October 2008 17:47)

Sorry Peter,
KLA’s foundations were as the name itself says: Kosovo liberation.
You can put any colour to it but you cannot tarnish the freedom fighters.
Peter, KLA were villagers, workers, doctors, teachers, nurses basically KLA was every Kosovo citizen that did not want live any more the life of a slave.

it is very well known that serbia must recognize kosovo to enter EU many EU diplomats have say this many times and tadic knows it very well the official EU condition for serbia to recognize kosovo will come with the right time! only 1 EU-countrys veto is enough to block serbias EU entry! im sure countrys like GB,France or Germany will never allow serbias EU entry without kosovo recognition

You and i both know that Kosovo will never ever go back to Serbia FACT so what i don't understand is why Tadic is making the democratic people in Serbia suffer for the nationalist who still believe in Car Lazar (dream on)... As long as they continue this course Serbia will never Join the EU (SIMPLE)
(Olis, 20 October 2008 14:41)


Olis,

I don't see Oregonians obsessed with their version of "Tsar Lazar dream" and invading Idaho anytime soon.

The things are not black-and-white, I think it is reasonable to let the dust set, clean up the post-miloshevic mess (plus the post-bush-clinton-mess) everywhere and see, who is who and why.

Part of that process is to allow people to live normal lives they want, regardless how you call Kosovo.

This is why I am upset about the ugly "Schengen White List" games. If "West" wants the life to be back to normal, get rid of the visa regime ASAP. Mexico, Paraguay, Venezuela, Nicaragua all are on the "white list". If not, they are liars and hypocrites.

Thanks Blero for invitation, I did notice, many Albanians prefer to drink "Russian" tea and I am missing it in BG a lot because Serbs are not into tea at all.

(Ataman (again in BG), 20 October 2008 15:49)

You see Ataman,

One more reason to support our independence then!
You will have a place where you can have a decent tea.
Converted yet?
What else do we have to do to get your vote?

Well, I think you should all be able to determine when EU officials use their diplomatic language.

Of course, French and others are saying that Kosovo recognition is not a precondition to become an EU candidate.
Actually, it is! Good neighboring IS, in fact an EU requisite for joining the Union. There is not a single chance, not even a theoretical one, that EU would allow any of its members have unsolved issues within their territory. And while Serbia refuses to recognize the Kosovo independence, along with Balkan remapping, its wish to join the big happy family of EU is out of question.

At the end of the day, the EU gibberish that the recognition is not a precondition is nothing more than empty talk. And Serbia has a big decision ahead, as well as a historic step regarding its future. It's either the figurative preserving of Kosovo or taking its citizen's future more seriously.

Regards

Well folks, one thing is sure, and that is Ahtisaari is speaking on behalf of the rich and almighty...

In essence he states that the majority of the world should bend over and enjoy the fruits of the minortiy wealthy in power...

These European elitist need to be brought down from their high tower...

Well Serbdom, if this is not a clear message to you that you and your rebellious mindset is not welcome in the European farm of funny elitist, then you have definitley not learned from the past twenty years.

Ahtisaari is saying what the EU is afraid to say...read it and understand, you will never be in the EU...

Ahtisaari is saying what the EU is afraid to say...read it and understand, you will never be in the EU...
(Frank, 20 October 2008 17:56

hahahaha i love this, great news.
Well Done Mr Ahtisaari, you're "the Greatest Man on Earth".

“I should like to invent a substance or machine with such terrible power of mass destruction that war would thereby be made impossible forever”—ALFRED BERNHARD NOBEL .That means the Nobel Prize!!!

ahtisaari's place is beside Milosevic! And alfred Nobel never was for peace!-«I should like to invent a substance or machine with such terrible power of mass destruction that war would thereby be made impossible forever”—ALFRED BERNHARD NOBEL». Ahtisaari just helped to destroy a country and spins at international law.

I think the prtition f Kosovo is teh only solution.

K-Albanians don't want to be under Serbia. This is a reality and difficult to get rounded back. But, in the other hand, K-albanians and the rest of countries that have recognised Kosovo as an independent country must recognised, in the name of the freedom and democracy that they have used to support that movemnet, the right of k-serbians to be tied to their country (Serbia).
Thus, let's divide Kosovo across Ibar river (the north part remains Serbian, with the majority of K-serbians there). Then, everybody recognised each other and the so much named Balkans stability is reached; everybody can join EU and everybody is finally a bit happier...
Why not? Probably is not the best solution, but perhaps is better than the current one situation. Everybody loses a piece and , sometimes, this is the best way to solve the conflicts.
Regards

Ahtisaari is correct, the EU is an economic organisation (as well as political and social), so if Serbia wants to become a member of the EU it should reflect what the majority of the worlds economy supports and this is an independent Kosovo. De facto Serbia has already lost Kosovo for good, even Serbian officials must realise by now that there is no chance of reintegrating Kosovo back into Serbia, Kosovo's independence is a done deal. Also the majority of the EU recognise Kosovo now, Slovakia, Greece, Romania have almost accepted the Kosovo passports so they may within the next year recognise Kosovo under pressure and influence. Cyprus may follow Greece. Then Spain will be the only EU country left which doesn't recognise Kosovo, so they are likely to recognise been the only member state which doesn't. Basically Kosovo is slowly but surely gaining recognition. So Serbia should have to recognise Kosovo before it joins the EU. I believe that the UK, Netherlands or France will veto Serbia's entry if it fails to not recognise Kosovo. I support what Ahtisaari says; so what if Somalia doesn't recognise Kosovo? Its the nations which do that count, for example European nations, north American and rich pacific nations. Ahtisaari is correct.

Serbian government knows all this,but Serbia its trying to keep Kosova hostage and under developed,so no investors will ever even think of investing in Kosova and as result it can still have influence as well as dictate in Kosova and the region.

You can't be poking the EU in the eye [while] saying you want to join EU,

Serbia obviously thinks it can,also Serbia should be told that Recognition of Kosova will not open the door for EU entry,until Serbia it acknowledges the wrongs and apologises to Kosova-r people for its deeds for last 100 years as well as pay war reparation, and compensation to people.Only than EU entry should be considered.Thanks

And why is he talking of the wealth of countries? Just count the number of countries and stop the propaganda. 50 countries have recognized and 142 countries have not.
(kufr, 19 October 2008 14:30)

Formally recognized by 51 out of 192 United Nations (UN) members.

101 out of the remaining 141 United Nation members soon to recognize the Republic of Kosova...

Mr. Ahtisaari you are a realist, and I congratulate you for being very frank. I also agree with you that the idea that Serbia will in any way, shape, or form control the Kosovar Albanians again, at least without the use of brutal force (which some posters here wouldn't mind), is an illusion for nationalist circles only.

"Kosovo can never get past the Russian and Chinese vetoes at the UN"

Serbia will say yes first, if it ever wants to join EU. Do Serbs really think that EU will leave Kosova hanging in limbo forever and accept Serbia? Out of 27 EU countires only Spain and Cyprus have not recognized Kosova or its passports. What diplomats say in the media and what they say privately are two different things, Tadic knows.

Well you are seem to know better than a Nobel Peace Prize winner who got Serbia in the situation it is in in the first place.

Unluckily for you, might IS always right. That's just a universal rule, this planet and Serbia is no exception.

Actually it's 70% of the world wealth, and that means that alot more countries depend on the 70% than on the ever-shrinking 30%.

And once the world majority is reached, that's it. The pressure would be too high because the "international law" excuse would no longer work, seeing how more than half of the international community will have recognized.

Independence is a reality and denial is not a river in non-recognizer Egypt.

"His plan was never debated at UN because it would've been rejected but somehow he thinks now it is legitimate."

Peggy,

You must be joking while saying the above.
Give me one reason why it should have been debated at UNSC when your friend Russia threatened to use veto to any solution that doesn't not satisfy Serbia, in other words keeping Kosova under Serbia's sovereignity. I am preatty sure that you and us here are not that naive. Russia showed its true face when recognising South Ossetia and Abkhazia....what it cares for.

ahtissari is 100% correct. serbia will NEVER become part of the EU so long as they continue to stir up trouble in the balkans, continue to intimidate and bully, continue to work towards the past (bad old days) instead of the future. so this is what the people of serbia must decide: which is your path -- autocracy, russia-style, allied with the usual cast of (bad) characters, or a future with democratic EU. it is a choice, and no, you cannot have it both ways.

for the hard-core nationalists, there is no problem, no ambiguity. fine. for the self-identified "moderates," this is a problem, big time, and not just about the eu but for the future of your country and the entire region. make the choice, but just be honest with yourselves... and with future generations.

roberto

The Serbian syndrome never fails from showing. I am talking about how great you Serbian people are at convincing yourselves that all your lost battles are victories.

Its simple to find out. Ask any Albanian in Kosova whether they are better now or under Milosevic. Ask any Serb weather they think they have more control over Kosova now or during Milosevic?

Well of course you have the usual Jovan's and Peggy's, the hardcore bigots to whom we Albanians are some sort of cannibalistic nation who kill our own by the thousands, who burn our own homes, who violently force ourselves out of Kosova by the millions just to make "innocent" Serbia look guilty.And as usual, in the eyes of these bigots who do a pathetic job at appearing as moderates, Serbia is never guilty for anything and Serbia always wins. Serbia is the greatest nation on earth and envious great world powers want to destroy her, but they will never achieve their evil plan because Serbia is the greatest and the most God righteous state in the world.

Peace.

Why is this guy still in the picture? His plan was never debated at UN because it would've been rejected but somehow he thinks now it is legitimate.

Isn't EU saying that recognition of Kosovo is not a requirement in order to join EU? Is Mr. Athisaari now speaking for EU with their approval?

So many questions here which don't have answers.

Mr. Athisaari, your plan was thrown out of UN and just because you are back in the news doesn't make you the supreme authority of the world.

Kindly step aside and take your rejected plan with you.

"Serbia had no option but to accept this state of affairs."

Serbia is refusing to acknowledge the state of affairs for the last 20 years.

I think Serbia should listen to this enlightened man and listen to the US and the EU as well. Nothing has helped Serbia by trying the other route; Antagonizing neighbors and those that they want to be a part of.

The sooner the better. It should learn from what happened to Georgia(There is much to learn there for those that look at the facts).

Jovan,

known fact that many K-albanians were being pushed to leave their homes by ruthless KLA-terrorists, who by doing so, wanted to create the impression of a mass-exodus fleeing from the serbian security forces in the international media-coverage.

many Albanians have confessed that they left only because of that pressure of armed men who were telling them to leave and afterwards burned their homes in order to put the blame on the Serbs.

truth is: most of the Albanians who were crossing the serbian-macedonian border left because of their fear in regard to the NATO-bombs... and then the rest was forced to leave by albanian criminals.

What a load of nonsense rubbish,so Serbs did none of that.

To Jovan #38.

Known fact you say!!!

Is this what you have been told from Slobo, Radovan, Arkan and their friends.

They must have told you this when you were still watching "Lisa in the Wanderword". I am sure in that time you believed everything you were told.

Ahtisari!! your PLAN was NEVER approved by the UNSC therefore it is not a legal document and basis for kosovo final solution.

And Serbia can never be COWED by you. takenote what FM Vuk said if kosovo recognition was a "condition" for EU membership. Serbia will say NO!!!

"We did Kosovo within the UN framework.

Within the UN framework? What are you talking about. I don’t remember UN passing your one sided resolution. Resolution 1244 is still in force. Until we see something different, you can try convince yourself and your K-Albanian drug suppliers otherwise.

Jovan:
"I´d answer: you can´t be poking international law in the eye saying you are the moral instance... and that´s what you need if you want to lead in international affairs.."


And what kind of international law was so desperately defended by Serbia when was trying to expatriate a million of its own ex-citizens?

And what is your moral instance about that?

After reading some of the comments made here i would like to say that the Ahtisari plan was aimed at settling the region and ensure that the region moves towards the EU as soon as possible, Ahtisari is correct in saying that Serbia will not be ale to join the EU without recognising the fact that Kosova is now independent and moving forward.

If you really take into account the EU and the former Yugoslavia you can see that the EU is in no way different, so Serbs and Kosovars can mover freely between the two countries.

You and i both know that Kosovo will never ever go back to Serbia FACT so what i don't understand is why Tadic is making the democratic people in Serbia suffer for the nationalist who still believe in Car Lazar (dream on)... As long as they continue this course Serbia will never Join the EU (SIMPLE)

It's really unnerving to read that what really matters is what the wealthy states think. What happened to democracy and the rule of law ? I hope that the world will reject this 'might is right' attitude.

"Well over 65 percent of the wealth of the world has recognized. That matters."
So if you are rich you can brake the law and do what ever you want... Quite unbelievable statement from UN mediator. Here in Finland Mr. Ahtisaari has lost all his credibility already long time a go because of his lust for money, which he is not even trying to hide. And this last statement stains his image even more.

" “It really doesn't matter if Paraguay hasn't recognized," Ahtisaari said. "Well over 65 percent of the wealth of the world has recognized. That matters."

well, that´s exactly what our dear friends are being told, but nevertheless, it´s wrong.

but I understand quite well HE has to say something like that...it´s very likely aimed at the K-albanians who have to be kept calm...


"As regards Serbia’s refusal to ever recognize Kosovo’s independence, Ahtisaari said that Belgrade would have to do so if it wanted to join the EU."

"would have" ...so now they are even asking this individual, in regard of questions on which he does not even have a say?
interesting. but that´s how "journalism" works, right?


"You can't be poking the EU in the eye [while] saying you want to join EU," he stressed.

I´d answer: you can´t be poking international law in the eye saying you are the moral instance... and that´s what you need if you want to lead in international affairs.

so, the finn could again be quite wrong...


"The former UN mediator said that very soon after taking up his post he had sent a private message to all sides that Kosovo’s secession was inevitable."

so much for his true "mediation"! he´s even openly saying that he was promoting the breach of international law right from his start!



“"[I said] in light of what had happened in Kosovo, the return of Kosovo to Serbia is not a viable option," adding that “since March 2006 no one should have had any illusion what my plan was going to be”.

so, after k-albanian terrorists killed innocent civilians, who were drinking their coffee in bars and cafe´s the only thing "viable" is giving in to TERROR?

this man really devaluates the nobel-prize, indeed. I wonder what will happen with this prize-decision when the ICJ finds this Kosovo-illusion to be against international law!

"Ahtisaari also dismissed any comparisons with Georgia and South Ossetia.

"We did Kosovo within the UN framework. In Georgia there was not even an attempt," he argued. "You cannot go into an independent country and do whatever you like. Even if you are Russia."

well, even that is wrong. the NATO-AGGRESSION came WITHOUT UN-approval.

this man should really be given an update on the real events...since it seems he does not know what he´s talking about!

"Ahtisari was awarded the Nobel Peace Prize for 2008 last week."

Alfred Nobel would be spinning in his grave if he knew...

Kosovo recognition is not a condition yet and by the time it could be the ICJ will have already ruled in Serbia's favour so it won't be an issue.

Serbia was promised Kosovo should be separated from the path to EU, end of discussion. Ahtisaari can take his lies and his Nobel prize elsewhere. Even with 1000 Nobel prizes Kosovo will never be independent.

And why is he talking of the wealth of countries? Just count the number of countries and stop the propaganda. 50 countries have recognized and 142 countries have not.

"You cannot go into an independent country and do whatever you like. "

This is what america has done to Serba and countless countries all over the world! It is occupying KiM as we speak.

known fact that many K-albanians were being pushed to leave their homes by ruthless KLA-terrorists, who by doing so, wanted to create the impression of a mass-exodus fleeing from the serbian security forces in the international media-coverage.
(Jovan, 19 October 2008 23:42)

As always Jovan is Jovan.
Ok Jovan, we already know that your knowledge of ancient history very narrow.
Unfortunately when the ancient history is concerned everybody can believe whatever he wishes.
You of course chose to base yours on Serbian angle of the history of Balkans.
I don’t think we can do anything to remedy that.
However, please stop talking nonsense. The majority of the people that were expelled from Kosovo are still alive and they can tell you the stories of who expelled them. So whatever you do Jovan, please write whatever you want for Illyrians but do not insult the dead of the 1999 war.
I hope that B92 will not censor this comment (as it has done in numerous occasions) as it is not intended as an offensive comment. It is simply a response to an insulting comment posted here.

Yes Mr.Ahtisaari says that only money matters...
He is the typical representative of this thinking which is hopefully go to history in not so distant future. This financial crisis is a precursor of greater changes the West will have to go throgh.
Nothing new from Mr.Ahtisaari - and one can't expect anything new from the man who belongs with both his feet to the era of deception.

what rubbish this man talks, The French said otherwise last week.

Its funny i always thought the EU was a democratic union which each country could express its opinion. If this is not the case that each nation is not allowed its own voice then why did we bother fighting Hitler? Surley what he tried was a Europeon Union of sorts and just as democratic.

"You cannot go into an independent country and do whatever you like. Even if you are Russia." - Ahtisaari.
This is precisely what the US/NATO/Greater German 'Rough Riders' did to Serbia. Double standards are so blatant here. Ahtisaari's arrogance leads him to believe that he can speak for Europe and the 'rich boys' while simultaneously denigrating Paraguay and the majority UN contention. It seems to me that his denial stems from some form of substance abuse and I regard his recent accolade as something bordering on a universal disgrace.

Micheal Breathnach
Ireland

Ahtisaari, you just said in that comment, "You cannot go into an independent country and do whatever you like..."
I'm sorry, but what exactly did NATO do, followed by the illegal aiding in the secession of a territory later with your pathetic and one-sided document.

This was a well said Mr. Ahtisaari. In just a few words he explains everything.
I wonder how long is going to take for Serbia until she recognized her new sister Kosovo?

it is very well known that serbia must recognize kosovo to enter EU many EU diplomats have say this many times and tadic knows it very well the official EU condition for serbia to recognize kosovo will come with the right time! only 1 EU-countrys veto is enough to block serbias EU entry! im sure countrys like GB,France or Germany will never allow serbias EU entry without kosovo recognition

(Ataman (back from KosMet), 20 October 2008 06:03)

Welcome back Ataman.
I can see that you managed to go freely and talk to both nationalities freely then.
None of that hostile Albanian attitude we are “used to hear” about from likes of Jovan and Peggy!
For correction purpose Ataman only, you were not in KosMet as you put it: You were in the Republic of Kosovo.
I have told you before, if your intentions are not hostile you are always welcomed in our country.
You are welcomed to visit any Albanian in this discussion (including myself) for a nice Birre Peje” next time you decide to pay us a visit.

As regards Serbia’s refusal to ever recognize Kosovo’s independence, Ahtisaari said that Belgrade would have to do so if it wanted to join the EU.

"You can't be poking the EU in the eye [while] saying you want to join EU," he stressed. "

What is he throwing a tantrum about? Firstly not all EU members have accepted Kosovo's UDI. Secondly, EU members have already stated that Belgrade's recognition of Kosovo's UDI is not a condition for EU membership. And Kosovo can never get past the Russian and Chinese vetoes at the UN. Sounds to me more like the rantings of a frustrated man whose proposals have failed!

The fact that he admitted having told the parties back in 2006 that secession was inevitable shows that he was not an honest broker all along. He was and still is really nothing more than Washington's lackey all this time!

Well it looks a little like the man wants to protect his legacy.

Perhaps he is right, perhaps it will become an EU demand. Then again equally perhaps we don't know what will happen in the future, how things will change.

sounds to me like the finns have an inferiority complex over russia. so, they are using somebody else's gun to get back a little serbia.

hmmmmm...do we see parallels with wwii?

i really cant stomach this man , its very clear he has a chip on his shoulder about russia and this is his way of disrespecting them by proxy .

Ahtisaari, we know very well that you hate Russia and Serbia, and that you have been given Nobel Prize. But now calm down.

KLA's foundations were in 'terrorism'.
(peter, sydney, 20 October 2008 17:47)

Sorry Peter,
KLA’s foundations were as the name itself says: Kosovo liberation.
You can put any colour to it but you cannot tarnish the freedom fighters.
Peter, KLA were villagers, workers, doctors, teachers, nurses basically KLA was every Kosovo citizen that did not want live any more the life of a slave.

i also wanted to say something about '65%' of the world's wealth. is this before, or after, national debts are accounted for in gdp?

for example, japan's debt is nearly 200% of its gdp. what wealth are we talking about here? sounds like the exact same wealth that yugoslavia had during tito's time...all fake.

it is said that foreigners own 40% of american debt. so, what fraction of the us wealth can be applied to the 'recognition' side, and how much can be attributed to 'non-recognition?' for example, what about the bit of the US that is owned by china?

cookin' the books. it's what makes great civilizations even greater...creating wealth that's not really there...smoke and mirrors. and, when it is there, it's based on the rape of other civilizations. isn't this right, british crown?

Dear B92, you should avoid publishing insults, open racism and defamation, since it it is eaven against your code.

Spain, Cyprus, Greece, Slovakia, and Romania are all EU members and do not recognize Kosovo.

Last I checked, Ahtisaari is a private citizen, not any EU official.

His words and opinions are about as legally valid as any of our words here on this site.

why on earth does serbia want to join this bullying corrupt organisation when many ordinary EU citizens want to get out? The EU is neither democratic nor fair and will only use Serbia and not give her fair treatment. They want serbia to recognise kosovo as independent because it lets them off the hook and saves their embarrassment from answering awkward questions!The Eu needs serbia more than Serbia needs them and in my opinion Serbia would be better off without the EU- thay have better countries to do business with and certainly better friends in the world!

Yes 65 percent of the wealth of the world - extracted from how many nations? Look at the wealth and status of all former colonial nations. For it was from the sweat, blood, tears, colonial rule and raw resources of other nations that they built their wealth. Ahtisarri you can take your trophy and documents and hang them in your home, but not in the halls of civilization - you don't deserve it.

"His plan was never debated at UN because it would've been rejected but somehow he thinks now it is legitimate."

Peggy,

You must be joking while saying the above.
Give me one reason why it should have been debated at UNSC when your friend Russia threatened to use veto to any solution that doesn't not satisfy Serbia, in other words keeping Kosova under Serbia's sovereignity. I am preatty sure that you and us here are not that naive. Russia showed its true face when recognising South Ossetia and Abkhazia....what it cares for.
(EA, 19 October 2008 16:18)

Bottom line EA. We know why it was never debated and don't need to hear it from you as well, but there you are, it was NOT debated and never will.

BTW, it's not only Russia but China as well.

Athisaari plan was as good as REJECTED. He can take it with him and put it in the rubbish bin for all it's worth.

Oh dear, Mr. Ahtisaari seems to be throwing a temper tantrum. Things didn't work out the way you were hoping they would.

Ah, the world's "wealthy" countries seem to be, well in your eyes, more, how would I put it? Viable in terms of opinion? What you forget is that even countries like Paraguay are 3 times as less corrupt as countries such as the U.S. Yes you may try and dispute this fact, but just consider media. Here’s an interesting question. It might shock you. Which country has a greater population of people, who are deemed "poor," the U.S. or Sudan? Don't be fooled by the White House... it is nowhere near as pure as its general colour. And now, with the world rolling so effortlessly close to the edge of economical stability, I ask you, who will be left better off when it all crashes, Paraguay, or perhaps the U.S.? It might shock you once again to know, the U.S. has been built on credit. Really think someone would be willing to pump money into the thousands of roads that are out in the Nevada Desert? Hurricane Katrina proved a valuable point.

In terms of the EU, you may consider the fact that there are quite a lot of Serbs who are just as happy without it. It has been a U.S. puppet for too long, and its strings are starting to stretch. The EU exists so that they have some form of political power when the U.S. comes crashing and Russia takes over. Might not before for a few years, but they are preparing. And once again, how will the EU help Serbia? Will it pay our bills? Will it put food on the table? Or will it simply set up the cheapest known labour in the whole of Europe?

The EU, what a sad joke. It's about as straight as The Hague.

... Ah but if only people had not funded the destruction of Yugoslavia.

"You cannot go into an independent country and do whatever you like. Even if you are Russia." - Ahtisaari.
This is precisely what the US/NATO/Greater German 'Rough Riders' did to Serbia. Double standards are so blatant here. Ahtisaari's arrogance leads him to believe that he can speak for Europe and the 'rich boys' while simultaneously denigrating Paraguay and the majority UN contention. It seems to me that his denial stems from some form of substance abuse and I regard his recent accolade as something bordering on a universal disgrace.

Micheal Breathnach
Ireland
(Micheal Breathnach, 19 October 2008 14:14)

Indeed, the hyprocrisy from this man is breathtaking but then again we should not be too surprised from this western imperialist stooge. As regards to the Nobel Prize, one Mr Henry Kissinger also received this accolade. This was the man responsible for the overthrow of the democratic government of Salvador Allende in Chile in 1973 which saw thousands of Chileans murdered by General Pinochet, the bombing of neutral Laos and Cambodia in '72 which cost upwards of 500,000 lives, the invasion of Cyprus in 1974 and to round it off the Indonesian invasion of Portuguese Timor in December 1975 which resulted in a brutal 24 year occupation claiming upwards of 250,000 lives. A war criminal and mass murderer who walks freely around the West giving lectures and after dinner speeches.

You're right Jovan, Alfred Nobel is spinning in his grave.

International justice my foot. Karadzic is in the ha'penny place compared to this guy.

Update: Recognizing Kosovo is a precondition whoever wants to join the EU (ask Montenegro), it's only a behind the scene precondition.

Take my word for it.

In response to Blero's attack on Jovan.

Blero, your the one who has no idea. I've been living in Australia for the last 15 years. Right now im living in Novi Sad and attending uni. I have for years watched the double standards of the western nations and how the serbs were demonized. You really think Serbs were the ones who kicked all the albanians out? Are you kidding? Heres a little thought for you. What kind of sizeable force did the serbian army represent in 1999. We had been fighting against separatists. I still know Croatians and Bosnians, even in Australia, who's parents don't even agree with the war. That say that even though Tito died, that Yugoslavia shouldn't have. But hey, what is going to stop the westerners when they find a good enough reason to bring down the strongest and closest thing to communism in Europe? Why is it that the Serbian entity of Krajina was ethnically cleansed and everyone (INCLUDING PEACEKEEPERS) stood by and did nothing?! Why is it that NATO(an american organisation) was never taken down for bombing Serbia for 78 days with bombs and munition that are against every weapons pact in the world? There is still plenty of depleted uranium in areas of Serbia. Even here in Vojvodina, in Fruska gora, there are discoveries of unexploded bombs.

Not to mention, how many serbs were in Kosovo before the war? how many are left? You think that we were able to force out all of those albanians, when we didn't even have enough strength to defend our own people? We weren't the ones who started the war. You can thank your KLA buddies for that. And how ironic, that once the U.S. had placed the KLA on a list of world terrorist groups, only then to support thaci and the rest of those war criminals. And they helped them head the government powers in Kosovo. What happened there? You want democratic? Here, just outside the city area of Novi Sad, still stands the ruins of what used to be a public TV building which was struck with a tomahawk missile. To show all you "democratic do-gooders" just how nice the U.S. is.

Not to mention, the KLA was smart enough not to wear uniforms in most areas. Or in proper terms, they never bothered. They wanted a war, and what did they expect? The Serbs to sit by while they were ethnically cleansed and forced out of Kosovo. We retaliated with whatever we had. You want to blame someone for the war, go tell thaci how you feel.

And another thing, why is it when they had the trial of a Serbian soldier on here (forgive me but i cannot remember the exact name, if need be I will), where an albanian woman who said she witnessed his crimes, claims to have been able to hear bodies dropping off from a bridge into water, even though the bridge was 2km+ away from where she was. And that she was on fire and was able to wipe off her clothes. Where in hell is even a shred of truth?

Kosovo will always remain Serbian. Regardless of some EU corrupted politician throwing a tantrum, or even some unilateral (illegal) declaration. I know that soon, maybe not for a few decades even, Russia will be the new world power. And only then will there be some form of international law upheld.

CCCC

Looks like Jovan and I have been labeled as bigots now.

I suppose the truth is just too much for some people to handle.
They have to attack the truth and it's messengers with all the weapons at their disposal which are lies, propaganda and personal attacks.

I can label these people too, but I will not sink to their level. If I don't agree with what they say I will attack what they say, but personal attacks I will leave to them.

The truth hurts I know but it cannot be stopped. It's coming and so brace yourself for it. Attacking someone by calling them bigots is not going to work. It only exposes you for the character you yourselves have.

Your hero Mr. Athisaari has already disgraced himself and the prize he won. His supporters will end up the same.

No EU without Kosovo recognition? This is good news. The power not to enter EU is within our grasp. All we have to do is not recognize Kosovo. Tadic will run into a wall attempting to join EU, but he will not be able to justify recognition of Kosovo to Serbian people. He's gone even before next elections.
EU goes its own way.
Serbia, free, independent..

“I should like to invent a substance or machine with such terrible power of mass destruction that war would thereby be made impossible forever”—ALFRED BERNHARD NOBEL .That means the Nobel Prize!!!

Well, I think you should all be able to determine when EU officials use their diplomatic language.

Of course, French and others are saying that Kosovo recognition is not a precondition to become an EU candidate.
Actually, it is! Good neighboring IS, in fact an EU requisite for joining the Union. There is not a single chance, not even a theoretical one, that EU would allow any of its members have unsolved issues within their territory. And while Serbia refuses to recognize the Kosovo independence, along with Balkan remapping, its wish to join the big happy family of EU is out of question.

At the end of the day, the EU gibberish that the recognition is not a precondition is nothing more than empty talk. And Serbia has a big decision ahead, as well as a historic step regarding its future. It's either the figurative preserving of Kosovo or taking its citizen's future more seriously.

Regards

Interesting that Ahtisaari is pretty much echoing pristina just about word for word. Certainly lends credence to the viewpoint that he was bought & paid for by Thaci's regime back when he was supposed to be working impartially for the UN.

Small wonder then that he likes to emphasise one of the only criteria by which those who recognise K-albanian 'pseudo-state' are in a majority - that of GDP.

And sad to see the value of the Nobel 'peace' prize so devalued. With Ahtisaari's award, medal is now not worth much more than the intrinsic value of the gold.


EA:
Ahtisaari's plan was formulated without the agreement of one of the two sides in the conflict. As such, Russia was perfectly entitled to veto a document that failed to take that into account. A lasting solution to Kosovo has to be agreed to. It cannot be imposed.

And that is why 'the plan' is only good for toilet paper.


It's a Done Deal:
No-one has recognised 'Kosova'. And doesn't surprise me that you would put so much importance on the 'acceptance of 'pseudo-state's passports - partial or otherwise. Taiwanese passports have been accepted in Australia for years, but Australia hasn't recognised Taiwan for well over 30 of those years.

Means little.


Jarina:
Cannot recognise 'Republic of Kosova' - doesn't exist - in real or 'pseudo-world' - but perhaps on 'Mars' along with those imaginary upcoming 101 recognitions.


Funcakes:
So 'might is right' is part of your justification? Sad. And as for the actual proportion of the 'worlds wealth' that recognises 'pseudo-state', is far more likely that it is shrinking than growing, or haven't you been paying attention recently?


roberto:
Perhaps if you capitalised the entire sentence, might convince more people. Reality is that the inclusion of Serbia is far more important to the EU than is the issue of Kosovo. And try to stop living in the past. Serbia has changed & is still changing. And it's version of democracy is far livelier than the stagnant version you have in the US & I might add, we have here in Oz.


dan-ch:
See above. Also note that the outcome of the ICJ ruling will no doubt precede Serbia's prospective accession to the EU & therefore may well have a significant bearing on the outcome.


johnny:
I find the last word of your post at odds with the rest of it. But then again, am just another of those 'pseudo-moderate bigot's right.


blero:
Have no doubt that elements of the KLA 'encouraged' their brethren to add to the exodus as 'Jovan' stated. PR war was undoubtably more important than the ground-war & KLA's foundations were in 'terrorism'.


and others:
Is one thing to blackmail or bribe states into recognising 'pseudo-state'. Is quite another to try the same tactic on Serbia as simply will not work. Bottom line is that Tadic will not survive in government if he tries to - even if he really wants to.

If brussels really is pre-conditioning such, then Serbia will not join the EU. Period.

And I doubt very much that this is part of 'brussel's game plan.

Which is why any condition of recognition of 'pseudo-state', if it exists, will ultimately fall by the way-side.

Thanks Blero for invitation, I did notice, many Albanians prefer to drink "Russian" tea and I am missing it in BG a lot because Serbs are not into tea at all.

(Ataman (again in BG), 20 October 2008 15:49)

You see Ataman,

One more reason to support our independence then!
You will have a place where you can have a decent tea.
Converted yet?
What else do we have to do to get your vote?

Ataman & Ben,

I raise my hat to both of you.

I also have deep respect towards Ataman's decision not to sing like a canary.

If only could join you on your next trip! But I'm stuck in Ahtisaari-land at the moment...

I think the prtition f Kosovo is teh only solution.

K-Albanians don't want to be under Serbia. This is a reality and difficult to get rounded back. But, in the other hand, K-albanians and the rest of countries that have recognised Kosovo as an independent country must recognised, in the name of the freedom and democracy that they have used to support that movemnet, the right of k-serbians to be tied to their country (Serbia).
Thus, let's divide Kosovo across Ibar river (the north part remains Serbian, with the majority of K-serbians there). Then, everybody recognised each other and the so much named Balkans stability is reached; everybody can join EU and everybody is finally a bit happier...
Why not? Probably is not the best solution, but perhaps is better than the current one situation. Everybody loses a piece and , sometimes, this is the best way to solve the conflicts.
Regards

Dear readers,

pleace do not draw connection marks between average Finns/Finland and Mr. Ahtisaari. Immediatelly he acme president to Finland it was clear that he did not know or care anything about country. He had used to live elitist or colonialist live abroud decades. He and his wife came soon permanent material in finnish comedies. Exceptional was that on the end of his season no one asked him for second season. After that he started to sit in different boards of big firms while occasional acting mediator on the behalf of Nato or his own company. So please do not be upset what he talks and forget that he has some finnish origins.

Who cares about joining the USA controlled, Muslim worshipping European Union? Serbia has friends; nations that will help Serbia.

Since Ben invited me so kindly - I could not resist and I was in KosMet, returning at 4 AM today. You know, I have my own "INAT", too. And while some people let them drive in a fancy car, use someone else's budget and this way can become Kosovo experts overnight.... I drove MY OWN CAR and as usual, used my own money.

How about that, Mr. Ahtisaari (and others)?

All I can say: it's very different out there than what is up in the air. I wasn't long enough, but met very nice people of both ethnic backgrounds. Serbs and Albanians were super-happy, I am not a reporter and begun to tell things which are not for reporters or Ahtisaari.

I do not want to "cheat" these nice people, so since I said firmly, I am not journalist and not associated with any newspaper, I keep the details they said for myself amy my close circle.

Regarding the mishaps 30 years ago there is some plausible explanation I did find in Bradt Kosovo book. I do not want to tell in detail, nothing wrong, actually. One should buy that book and read.

That's it. Who can - should go there. And Qebaptore LaLa in Pec/Peja was really good. But with all due respect to their excellent dishes, I was in Pec not because of the qebaptore.

Blero,

Please let me call it "Kosmet", we can "agree to disagree" on certain things. I wasn't keeping much secret about me to some people there and it was OK.

As for Ben: I was sarcastic, sorry. Ben did not invite me, just the opposite, he told me I am not welcome. And since I have my "Inat" I decided otherwise. Hope he will cool down. We did not met of course. I made a quick decision after people in Studenica told me, it's OK to drive there.

Thanks Blero for invitation, I did notice, many Albanians prefer to drink "Russian" tea and I am missing it in BG a lot because Serbs are not into tea at all. We have very good Ceylon black with natural rose flavor, I can bring.

As for bier... I know it's famous, appreciate your offer but I am 100% abstinent from alcohol if I am driving because I am a very bad driver anyway.

An I was DRIVING in Kosovo. :-)

You and i both know that Kosovo will never ever go back to Serbia FACT so what i don't understand is why Tadic is making the democratic people in Serbia suffer for the nationalist who still believe in Car Lazar (dream on)... As long as they continue this course Serbia will never Join the EU (SIMPLE)
(Olis, 20 October 2008 14:41)


Olis,

I don't see Oregonians obsessed with their version of "Tsar Lazar dream" and invading Idaho anytime soon.

The things are not black-and-white, I think it is reasonable to let the dust set, clean up the post-miloshevic mess (plus the post-bush-clinton-mess) everywhere and see, who is who and why.

Part of that process is to allow people to live normal lives they want, regardless how you call Kosovo.

This is why I am upset about the ugly "Schengen White List" games. If "West" wants the life to be back to normal, get rid of the visa regime ASAP. Mexico, Paraguay, Venezuela, Nicaragua all are on the "white list". If not, they are liars and hypocrites.

Well folks, one thing is sure, and that is Ahtisaari is speaking on behalf of the rich and almighty...

In essence he states that the majority of the world should bend over and enjoy the fruits of the minortiy wealthy in power...

These European elitist need to be brought down from their high tower...

Well Serbdom, if this is not a clear message to you that you and your rebellious mindset is not welcome in the European farm of funny elitist, then you have definitley not learned from the past twenty years.

Ahtisaari is saying what the EU is afraid to say...read it and understand, you will never be in the EU...

Ahtisaari is saying what the EU is afraid to say...read it and understand, you will never be in the EU...
(Frank, 20 October 2008 17:56

hahahaha i love this, great news.
Well Done Mr Ahtisaari, you're "the Greatest Man on Earth".

ahtisaari's place is beside Milosevic! And alfred Nobel never was for peace!-«I should like to invent a substance or machine with such terrible power of mass destruction that war would thereby be made impossible forever”—ALFRED BERNHARD NOBEL». Ahtisaari just helped to destroy a country and spins at international law.