1) Please look at Djukanovic biography. He is not a single bit "better" than my "favorites": bush, putin, saakashvili, thaci, haradinaj and co. The crazy gruevski, the "mini-duce" viktor orbán... The list is long.
2) You say fence? This is as much as un-european as possible. It was a not the most politically correct wording, I think.
Bil: "Look at Greece on the issue of Macedonia's name."
Bill, the irrationality there comes from both sides.
The Macedonians surely have a right to chose their own name and identity. Yet their attempts to show themselves as descendants of Alexander the Great (after whom they maned thir airport) could hardly be considered a rational behavoir.
congratulations, montenegro, on making the right decision, despite all of the obvious pressures. you, too, had to separate from serbia, and steer your own course. it doesn't mean that you can't be frnds, work together on common projects. but sometimes, good fences make good neighbors. especially certain neighbors.
i am not suggesting that djukanovic is a saint, because he is not. however, he is is pragmatic. as was serbia's former prime minister djindjic. i believe in morals and ethics, but sometimes pragmatism and compromise is the best answer and the right way forward.
as for the violence and behavior of the extreme nationalists, what else is new. again, and again and again. good, fine, be a nationalist extremist and defend it all. just PLEASE don't pretend to be anything else.
Honestly... Montenegro is doing what it should, that is to act in it's best interest.
the idea that montenegro is somehow "selling it's soul" is utter nonsense... and for any leader in Montenegro to act in any manner than is not in best interest of MONTENEGRO... that would traitorous.
serbs citizens..especially serb leadership within Montenegro seem to need reminding that montenegro is in fact, not serbia.
You and others keep mentioning EU countiries that are opposed to Kosovo's independence. Who are these countries? Basically all of these countries are supressing their own citizens and are afraid of what they think of presidence. They don't even belong in EU.
Albanians have no illusion that Montenegro is on Serbian side. Nevertheless Serbs react completely irrational with verbal violence. More proof for the unsoundness of Serbian leading class.
This self-proclaimed "King" of Montenegro needs to retire, he's been in power waaaay to long and frankly, other than himself, who likes listening to him yada, yada, yada year in and year out anymore.
Why is he still making decisions on behalf of the state when he should be making decisions about how to plea bargain his way out of jail (smuggler extroadinaire) once he's finally left political office.
Mr. Djukanovic, not recognizing Kosovo would hamper your way into the EU but once there you are free to choose. Am I getting this right?
You see, some EU countries don't seem to care about upsetting the EU. They will not recognize Kosovo and don't seem nervous about it at all. Are they getting throw out?
You really don't make sense and are grasping at straws now to justify your move.
We had to decide whether to build partner relations with the EU and NATO, or support Serbia’s illusion,” Đukanović said.
Well said Mr Prime Minister i totally agree with you (Serbia's Illusion).
Thank you so much Montenegro
The government of Montenegro made a bad decision and it was clearly made under pressure. But, in the end, this will be a good thing! The backlash it has caused will unite the Orthodox peoples of these two countries. Like Greece and Cyprus, Serbia and Montenegro are two parts of the same thing. This will become very clear in the next year as Kosovo gets debated in Montenegro.
Ultimately, Serbia will probably give up Kosovo for economic reasons, but it will do so on its terms. That's what the ICJ ruling is all about. It's an attempt to give Serbia some leverage.
The West foolishly wanted to isolate Serbia and take away Kosovo. I don't believe for a minute they would have let Serbia enter the EU, even if it had agreed to an independent Kosovo.
In an attempt to save face (especilly after the Russian invasion of Georgia), the West will probably agree to many of Serbia's terms so long as it recognizes Kosovo. This is especially true if there is a favorable ICJ ruling and Montenegro (and possibly one other state) reconsiders its decision to recognize Kosovo.
The only possible response to Djukanovic and his recognition of Kosovo is via the ballot box. The opposition should be working to get rid of him democratically, protests are of limited value.
Nik,
You talk reason and unfortunately Balkan reality has no room for that. Balkan mind will sill take a long time to transform to a rational state. Look at Greece on the issue of Macedonia's name.
We live in an absurd world! Serbia acquieses to Motrenegiran indpendence, despite of the fact that it was supported by a little over 55% of Montenegro's population, while at least 40% fiercely oppose it!Yet it fiercely opposes Kosovo's independance, supported by at least 90% of Kosovo's population! By acquising to Montenegrian independence Serbia loses it only access to the sea and becomes a landlocked country with little potential for international tourism. By refusing to recognize Kosovo's independence, Serbia becomes a country with unsettled borders and that chases investors away!
By "loosing" Montenegro Serbia looses its true hartland, populated by kinsmen. By losing Kosovo serbia frees itself from a different culture it has problems comunicating with.
And what is haredst to understand is that if Serbia had let Kosovo go, it had substantial chances to keep Montenegro and solve many problems on the way.
Djocanovic! You have no dignity!!! Watch your brother slovac PM. Why he never mentioned about « their standarts» as,Spain, Greece,Romania and others? Montenegro should be the last country in the world to recognize Kosovo! Shame on you!
"but if you want to become part of Europe, you must respect their standards"
This is so true. He had to make tough choices, but he was 100% right. There will be more tough choices in EU he has to face and I see even a bigger problem, but I am sure, proud Montenegrin leaders will overcome these little burdens... like:
- smoke ban in all public buildings
- smoke ban on all public transportation, trains, busses
- If you print on "Golden Lucky Phoenix" cigarette brand a label which reads "Marlboro" - and get caught: you won't be lucky unless you are under immunity
But these are all minor issues and all this recognition was not about "Golden Lucky Phoenix" alias Marlboro.
Well death is inevitable, but thats no reason to kill oneself...
No, the main point is why now? Djukanovic should have the courage to admit this recognition was deliberately timed by those countries who were upset about their defeat at the UN.
Not only is that very sad, but its not a good way to go about creating stability in the region.
I'm all for reality, but if the argument is that Kosovo independence is a reality then why wasn't Kosovo recognised immediately?
Poor us listening to this rubbish all the time, its no wonder that some of us become extremists as a result.
Montenegrin Prime Minister Milo Đukanović says that delaying recognition of Kosovo’s independence would have been “political blindness”.
--
Now that was said just like an obedient puppet. I think he'll realise that recognition is "political suicide" in his case.
Couldn’t be said clearer- Serbia lives in illusions.
How the hell one can think that if UE, US, Japan etc recognise you but it’s not a big deal???
What we needed and obtained is a complete legitimacy by the countries of our region.
If I am recognised by the countries with who I border and the main trade partners the rest of the world’s countries sooner or later will follow- it is simply a matter of time.
The fact that Serbia expelled the ambassadors of Montenegro and Macedonia but not US or UK, France or even Albania simply show the hegemonic attitude of Belgrade towards the small countries of the former Yugo- why didn’t they expel the Slovenian ambassador???
The other said fact that happened again and again and yesterday in Montenegro when the Serbs are in question is the fact that the violence is always blessed, incited and encouraged by the Serbian church.
Let’s hope that the illusions and complexes of superiority of Belgrade will be healed by Serbs themselves- it is painful process but the reality must be faced- you cannot pretend to be in the right track in the highway when you see all the cars coming into your opposite direction.
And above all that the reason and the respect of the others culture in the Serbian church will finally prevail and stop blessing violence.
I don't think the situation is going to get any better by blaming protesters. When someone attempts to sell the soul of a country then civil unrest is expected.
As for this so-called Serbian "government" giving Montenegro two slaps across the wrist instead of one, it makes little difference. The overwhelming majority of Montenegrin citizens are opposed to this act and those cigarette smugglers need to answer to them.
It is just a matter of time before all of those false elections and velvet revolutions become undone. They are beginning to destabilise many regions and the people are beginning to revolt.
I am fairly certain Montenegro will be the first to revoke recognition so keep the pressure high.
Well, I am usually skeptical about alleged agitators in the crowd. However, Montenegrin opposition leader Medojevic stated that he believed that what he called Montenegrin 'UDBA' (secret police) agents took part in demonstation violence to as to discredit the protest.
Perhaps one might expect Montengrin Serb leaders to say such a thing (and they have) but they are not the only ones saying it.
It goes without saying that I condemn violent protests.
Couldn’t be said clearer- Serbia lives in illusions.
How the hell one can think that if UE, US, Japan etc recognise you but it’s not a big deal???
What we needed and obtained is a complete legitimacy by the countries of our region.
If I am recognised by the countries with who I border and the main trade partners the rest of the world’s countries sooner or later will follow- it is simply a matter of time.
The fact that Serbia expelled the ambassadors of Montenegro and Macedonia but not US or UK, France or even Albania simply show the hegemonic attitude of Belgrade towards the small countries of the former Yugo- why didn’t they expel the Slovenian ambassador???
The other said fact that happened again and again and yesterday in Montenegro when the Serbs are in question is the fact that the violence is always blessed, incited and encouraged by the Serbian church.
Let’s hope that the illusions and complexes of superiority of Belgrade will be healed by Serbs themselves- it is painful process but the reality must be faced- you cannot pretend to be in the right track in the highway when you see all the cars coming into your opposite direction.
And above all that the reason and the respect of the others culture in the Serbian church will finally prevail and stop blessing violence.
I don't think the situation is going to get any better by blaming protesters. When someone attempts to sell the soul of a country then civil unrest is expected.
As for this so-called Serbian "government" giving Montenegro two slaps across the wrist instead of one, it makes little difference. The overwhelming majority of Montenegrin citizens are opposed to this act and those cigarette smugglers need to answer to them.
It is just a matter of time before all of those false elections and velvet revolutions become undone. They are beginning to destabilise many regions and the people are beginning to revolt.
I am fairly certain Montenegro will be the first to revoke recognition so keep the pressure high.
Well death is inevitable, but thats no reason to kill oneself...
No, the main point is why now? Djukanovic should have the courage to admit this recognition was deliberately timed by those countries who were upset about their defeat at the UN.
Not only is that very sad, but its not a good way to go about creating stability in the region.
I'm all for reality, but if the argument is that Kosovo independence is a reality then why wasn't Kosovo recognised immediately?
Poor us listening to this rubbish all the time, its no wonder that some of us become extremists as a result.
The only possible response to Djukanovic and his recognition of Kosovo is via the ballot box. The opposition should be working to get rid of him democratically, protests are of limited value.
Djocanovic! You have no dignity!!! Watch your brother slovac PM. Why he never mentioned about « their standarts» as,Spain, Greece,Romania and others? Montenegro should be the last country in the world to recognize Kosovo! Shame on you!
Montenegrin Prime Minister Milo Đukanović says that delaying recognition of Kosovo’s independence would have been “political blindness”.
--
Now that was said just like an obedient puppet. I think he'll realise that recognition is "political suicide" in his case.
"but if you want to become part of Europe, you must respect their standards"
This is so true. He had to make tough choices, but he was 100% right. There will be more tough choices in EU he has to face and I see even a bigger problem, but I am sure, proud Montenegrin leaders will overcome these little burdens... like:
- smoke ban in all public buildings
- smoke ban on all public transportation, trains, busses
- If you print on "Golden Lucky Phoenix" cigarette brand a label which reads "Marlboro" - and get caught: you won't be lucky unless you are under immunity
But these are all minor issues and all this recognition was not about "Golden Lucky Phoenix" alias Marlboro.
The government of Montenegro made a bad decision and it was clearly made under pressure. But, in the end, this will be a good thing! The backlash it has caused will unite the Orthodox peoples of these two countries. Like Greece and Cyprus, Serbia and Montenegro are two parts of the same thing. This will become very clear in the next year as Kosovo gets debated in Montenegro.
Ultimately, Serbia will probably give up Kosovo for economic reasons, but it will do so on its terms. That's what the ICJ ruling is all about. It's an attempt to give Serbia some leverage.
The West foolishly wanted to isolate Serbia and take away Kosovo. I don't believe for a minute they would have let Serbia enter the EU, even if it had agreed to an independent Kosovo.
In an attempt to save face (especilly after the Russian invasion of Georgia), the West will probably agree to many of Serbia's terms so long as it recognizes Kosovo. This is especially true if there is a favorable ICJ ruling and Montenegro (and possibly one other state) reconsiders its decision to recognize Kosovo.
We live in an absurd world! Serbia acquieses to Motrenegiran indpendence, despite of the fact that it was supported by a little over 55% of Montenegro's population, while at least 40% fiercely oppose it!Yet it fiercely opposes Kosovo's independance, supported by at least 90% of Kosovo's population! By acquising to Montenegrian independence Serbia loses it only access to the sea and becomes a landlocked country with little potential for international tourism. By refusing to recognize Kosovo's independence, Serbia becomes a country with unsettled borders and that chases investors away!
By "loosing" Montenegro Serbia looses its true hartland, populated by kinsmen. By losing Kosovo serbia frees itself from a different culture it has problems comunicating with.
And what is haredst to understand is that if Serbia had let Kosovo go, it had substantial chances to keep Montenegro and solve many problems on the way.
Nik,
You talk reason and unfortunately Balkan reality has no room for that. Balkan mind will sill take a long time to transform to a rational state. Look at Greece on the issue of Macedonia's name.
Mr. Djukanovic, not recognizing Kosovo would hamper your way into the EU but once there you are free to choose. Am I getting this right?
You see, some EU countries don't seem to care about upsetting the EU. They will not recognize Kosovo and don't seem nervous about it at all. Are they getting throw out?
You really don't make sense and are grasping at straws now to justify your move.
Well, I am usually skeptical about alleged agitators in the crowd. However, Montenegrin opposition leader Medojevic stated that he believed that what he called Montenegrin 'UDBA' (secret police) agents took part in demonstation violence to as to discredit the protest.
Perhaps one might expect Montengrin Serb leaders to say such a thing (and they have) but they are not the only ones saying it.
It goes without saying that I condemn violent protests.
This self-proclaimed "King" of Montenegro needs to retire, he's been in power waaaay to long and frankly, other than himself, who likes listening to him yada, yada, yada year in and year out anymore.
Why is he still making decisions on behalf of the state when he should be making decisions about how to plea bargain his way out of jail (smuggler extroadinaire) once he's finally left political office.
We had to decide whether to build partner relations with the EU and NATO, or support Serbia’s illusion,” Đukanović said.
Well said Mr Prime Minister i totally agree with you (Serbia's Illusion).
Thank you so much Montenegro
Albanians have no illusion that Montenegro is on Serbian side. Nevertheless Serbs react completely irrational with verbal violence. More proof for the unsoundness of Serbian leading class.
congratulations, montenegro, on making the right decision, despite all of the obvious pressures. you, too, had to separate from serbia, and steer your own course. it doesn't mean that you can't be frnds, work together on common projects. but sometimes, good fences make good neighbors. especially certain neighbors.
i am not suggesting that djukanovic is a saint, because he is not. however, he is is pragmatic. as was serbia's former prime minister djindjic. i believe in morals and ethics, but sometimes pragmatism and compromise is the best answer and the right way forward.
as for the violence and behavior of the extreme nationalists, what else is new. again, and again and again. good, fine, be a nationalist extremist and defend it all. just PLEASE don't pretend to be anything else.
Honestly... Montenegro is doing what it should, that is to act in it's best interest.
the idea that montenegro is somehow "selling it's soul" is utter nonsense... and for any leader in Montenegro to act in any manner than is not in best interest of MONTENEGRO... that would traitorous.
serbs citizens..especially serb leadership within Montenegro seem to need reminding that montenegro is in fact, not serbia.
You and others keep mentioning EU countiries that are opposed to Kosovo's independence. Who are these countries? Basically all of these countries are supressing their own citizens and are afraid of what they think of presidence. They don't even belong in EU.
Bil: "Look at Greece on the issue of Macedonia's name."
Bill, the irrationality there comes from both sides.
The Macedonians surely have a right to chose their own name and identity. Yet their attempts to show themselves as descendants of Alexander the Great (after whom they maned thir airport) could hardly be considered a rational behavoir.
1) Please look at Djukanovic biography. He is not a single bit "better" than my "favorites": bush, putin, saakashvili, thaci, haradinaj and co. The crazy gruevski, the "mini-duce" viktor orbán... The list is long.
2) You say fence? This is as much as un-european as possible. It was a not the most politically correct wording, I think.
I don't think the situation is going to get any better by blaming protesters. When someone attempts to sell the soul of a country then civil unrest is expected.
As for this so-called Serbian "government" giving Montenegro two slaps across the wrist instead of one, it makes little difference. The overwhelming majority of Montenegrin citizens are opposed to this act and those cigarette smugglers need to answer to them.
It is just a matter of time before all of those false elections and velvet revolutions become undone. They are beginning to destabilise many regions and the people are beginning to revolt.
I am fairly certain Montenegro will be the first to revoke recognition so keep the pressure high.
Montenegrin Prime Minister Milo Đukanović says that delaying recognition of Kosovo’s independence would have been “political blindness”.
--
Now that was said just like an obedient puppet. I think he'll realise that recognition is "political suicide" in his case.
Couldn’t be said clearer- Serbia lives in illusions.
How the hell one can think that if UE, US, Japan etc recognise you but it’s not a big deal???
What we needed and obtained is a complete legitimacy by the countries of our region.
If I am recognised by the countries with who I border and the main trade partners the rest of the world’s countries sooner or later will follow- it is simply a matter of time.
The fact that Serbia expelled the ambassadors of Montenegro and Macedonia but not US or UK, France or even Albania simply show the hegemonic attitude of Belgrade towards the small countries of the former Yugo- why didn’t they expel the Slovenian ambassador???
The other said fact that happened again and again and yesterday in Montenegro when the Serbs are in question is the fact that the violence is always blessed, incited and encouraged by the Serbian church.
Let’s hope that the illusions and complexes of superiority of Belgrade will be healed by Serbs themselves- it is painful process but the reality must be faced- you cannot pretend to be in the right track in the highway when you see all the cars coming into your opposite direction.
And above all that the reason and the respect of the others culture in the Serbian church will finally prevail and stop blessing violence.
We live in an absurd world! Serbia acquieses to Motrenegiran indpendence, despite of the fact that it was supported by a little over 55% of Montenegro's population, while at least 40% fiercely oppose it!Yet it fiercely opposes Kosovo's independance, supported by at least 90% of Kosovo's population! By acquising to Montenegrian independence Serbia loses it only access to the sea and becomes a landlocked country with little potential for international tourism. By refusing to recognize Kosovo's independence, Serbia becomes a country with unsettled borders and that chases investors away!
By "loosing" Montenegro Serbia looses its true hartland, populated by kinsmen. By losing Kosovo serbia frees itself from a different culture it has problems comunicating with.
And what is haredst to understand is that if Serbia had let Kosovo go, it had substantial chances to keep Montenegro and solve many problems on the way.
Mr. Djukanovic, not recognizing Kosovo would hamper your way into the EU but once there you are free to choose. Am I getting this right?
You see, some EU countries don't seem to care about upsetting the EU. They will not recognize Kosovo and don't seem nervous about it at all. Are they getting throw out?
You really don't make sense and are grasping at straws now to justify your move.
You and others keep mentioning EU countiries that are opposed to Kosovo's independence. Who are these countries? Basically all of these countries are supressing their own citizens and are afraid of what they think of presidence. They don't even belong in EU.
congratulations, montenegro, on making the right decision, despite all of the obvious pressures. you, too, had to separate from serbia, and steer your own course. it doesn't mean that you can't be frnds, work together on common projects. but sometimes, good fences make good neighbors. especially certain neighbors.
i am not suggesting that djukanovic is a saint, because he is not. however, he is is pragmatic. as was serbia's former prime minister djindjic. i believe in morals and ethics, but sometimes pragmatism and compromise is the best answer and the right way forward.
as for the violence and behavior of the extreme nationalists, what else is new. again, and again and again. good, fine, be a nationalist extremist and defend it all. just PLEASE don't pretend to be anything else.
Well, I am usually skeptical about alleged agitators in the crowd. However, Montenegrin opposition leader Medojevic stated that he believed that what he called Montenegrin 'UDBA' (secret police) agents took part in demonstation violence to as to discredit the protest.
Perhaps one might expect Montengrin Serb leaders to say such a thing (and they have) but they are not the only ones saying it.
It goes without saying that I condemn violent protests.
Nik,
You talk reason and unfortunately Balkan reality has no room for that. Balkan mind will sill take a long time to transform to a rational state. Look at Greece on the issue of Macedonia's name.
The only possible response to Djukanovic and his recognition of Kosovo is via the ballot box. The opposition should be working to get rid of him democratically, protests are of limited value.
The government of Montenegro made a bad decision and it was clearly made under pressure. But, in the end, this will be a good thing! The backlash it has caused will unite the Orthodox peoples of these two countries. Like Greece and Cyprus, Serbia and Montenegro are two parts of the same thing. This will become very clear in the next year as Kosovo gets debated in Montenegro.
Ultimately, Serbia will probably give up Kosovo for economic reasons, but it will do so on its terms. That's what the ICJ ruling is all about. It's an attempt to give Serbia some leverage.
The West foolishly wanted to isolate Serbia and take away Kosovo. I don't believe for a minute they would have let Serbia enter the EU, even if it had agreed to an independent Kosovo.
In an attempt to save face (especilly after the Russian invasion of Georgia), the West will probably agree to many of Serbia's terms so long as it recognizes Kosovo. This is especially true if there is a favorable ICJ ruling and Montenegro (and possibly one other state) reconsiders its decision to recognize Kosovo.
1) Please look at Djukanovic biography. He is not a single bit "better" than my "favorites": bush, putin, saakashvili, thaci, haradinaj and co. The crazy gruevski, the "mini-duce" viktor orbán... The list is long.
2) You say fence? This is as much as un-european as possible. It was a not the most politically correct wording, I think.
Well death is inevitable, but thats no reason to kill oneself...
No, the main point is why now? Djukanovic should have the courage to admit this recognition was deliberately timed by those countries who were upset about their defeat at the UN.
Not only is that very sad, but its not a good way to go about creating stability in the region.
I'm all for reality, but if the argument is that Kosovo independence is a reality then why wasn't Kosovo recognised immediately?
Poor us listening to this rubbish all the time, its no wonder that some of us become extremists as a result.
Djocanovic! You have no dignity!!! Watch your brother slovac PM. Why he never mentioned about « their standarts» as,Spain, Greece,Romania and others? Montenegro should be the last country in the world to recognize Kosovo! Shame on you!
"but if you want to become part of Europe, you must respect their standards"
This is so true. He had to make tough choices, but he was 100% right. There will be more tough choices in EU he has to face and I see even a bigger problem, but I am sure, proud Montenegrin leaders will overcome these little burdens... like:
- smoke ban in all public buildings
- smoke ban on all public transportation, trains, busses
- If you print on "Golden Lucky Phoenix" cigarette brand a label which reads "Marlboro" - and get caught: you won't be lucky unless you are under immunity
But these are all minor issues and all this recognition was not about "Golden Lucky Phoenix" alias Marlboro.
Albanians have no illusion that Montenegro is on Serbian side. Nevertheless Serbs react completely irrational with verbal violence. More proof for the unsoundness of Serbian leading class.
This self-proclaimed "King" of Montenegro needs to retire, he's been in power waaaay to long and frankly, other than himself, who likes listening to him yada, yada, yada year in and year out anymore.
Why is he still making decisions on behalf of the state when he should be making decisions about how to plea bargain his way out of jail (smuggler extroadinaire) once he's finally left political office.
We had to decide whether to build partner relations with the EU and NATO, or support Serbia’s illusion,” Đukanović said.
Well said Mr Prime Minister i totally agree with you (Serbia's Illusion).
Thank you so much Montenegro
Honestly... Montenegro is doing what it should, that is to act in it's best interest.
the idea that montenegro is somehow "selling it's soul" is utter nonsense... and for any leader in Montenegro to act in any manner than is not in best interest of MONTENEGRO... that would traitorous.
serbs citizens..especially serb leadership within Montenegro seem to need reminding that montenegro is in fact, not serbia.
Bil: "Look at Greece on the issue of Macedonia's name."
Bill, the irrationality there comes from both sides.
The Macedonians surely have a right to chose their own name and identity. Yet their attempts to show themselves as descendants of Alexander the Great (after whom they maned thir airport) could hardly be considered a rational behavoir.
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