Podgorica peaceful after protests

Peggy has once again nailed it.
Just look at the comments here, and look who is supporting Milo - all albanians and nobody else - that pretty much tells you all you need to know about who is Milo and who he works for. He is a shame for Montenegrin people, a huge shame and embarrassment.

The 'recognition of Kosovo is necessary for regional stability' is looking a little stupid today isn't it?

NMB the reason why what you call a healthy debate won't be started in Serbia on Kosovo is because Montenegro and Macedonia did not recognise Kosovo because of healthy belief in Kosovo independence ie democracy, solution for the region. No, they recognised Kosovo under pressure from US and their Albanian politicians. That is old fashioned, cynical politics which will not spur much debate, rather condemnation.

Funcakes I think those 'hooligan drones' were Podgorica's, not Belgrade's. If Belgrade's hooligan drones, as you call them, protested you would know about it. Still, why let anything get in the way of blaming Belgrade for absolutely anything and everything...

Milo, ban anything you want but you can't stop the people.

You have seriously underestimated the will of the people. You will pay the price sooner than you think.
Either you revoke this revolting recognition or you will be forced to go to the polls where you will lose.

Never underestimate the will of the people. Montenegrins ARE Serbs and don't forget that.

Dane:
Funny, according to the above article, Mandic was warning the gov't that the recognition of the 'pseudo-state' would provoke violent demonstrations. And at the end of the protest, he tried to calm the crowd down.

Equating this to 'inciting violence' & then calling for the arrest of an opposition leader is something one might expect of someone like Mugabe, not someone who claims to espouse the principles of democracy & freedom of speech.


Funcakes:
And just how do you recognise 'pseudo-state' when the overwhelming majority of your population is against it? Djukanovic did. Only problem for him is that this issue will not go away, - because it is not just a political issue, it is a matter of national honour.

Unless he reverses the recognition, & that soon, the people of Montenegro will almost certainly throw him out of government, after which he can look forward to a nice long vacation behind bars. And all Belgrade has to do is sit back & watch.


Agim:
You claim 20-30% of the protesters were from Serbia & Kosovo. You of course have a 'source' for this. What is it? Or are you just making it up as you go along.

And 8,000 - 10,000 people represent between 1 - 2 % of the population of the country. Not a bad start on short notice. Equivalent to a crowd of over 100,000 in Belgrade. Equivalent to a crowd of over 300,000 in Sydney.

And this is only the start.

'End of the day', if Djukanovic does not reverse recognition, his 'days' are numbered.

As Jeremic said, Milo has proved that his Montenegro can not conduct an independent foreign policy and thus is not an independent country.

Even worse. By going against the will of the Montenegrin people Milo has performed a very undemocratic action. To respect the will of the people is the very definition of democracy.

The only decent thing he can do now is declare a referendum on annulation of the Kosovo recognition. If a majority of people supports the recognition, only then it is a democratic decision.

Someone wrote that 20-30% of the protesters were serbs from Kosovo and Belgrade. How do you know? Don't know where you get your numbers from. A fact is that a survey suggested that 80% of Montenegrins thought the recognision of Kososvo was wrong. And to Agim I should say that Kosovo will only be independent when Serbia gives the permission and when it joins the UN, that won't happen any time soon.

10,000 demonstrators is a conservative amount and is likely double that given the media and governments role to downplay the number.

As Podgorica has a population of 135,000 people, 20,000 demonstrators is a huge amount.

The fact that they are violent just demonstrates the passion people have for Kosovo and I really don't expect this violence to settle. The government will have to answer to the people why its soul was sold otherwise it will shortly need to revoke it's recognition before matters and the stability of the this Balkan country and region turn for the worst.

I am fairly certain Montenegro will be the first country to revoke recognition and then we can start talking about waves of countries following. It will begin slowly but then all of these arm twisted nations will finally be able to release the chains around their neck placed there by the world dictators.

It is quite obvious that both the US and EU are losing grip of the world financial system and political influence. Time is on our side.

Power to the people and may freedom prosper.

Agim, are you aware that 45% of montenegro's population did not want to break off? Are you aware that the only reason they did was because of minorities such as croats, albanians and bosniaks? WIth this in mind, it is clearly obvious that most orthodox people in montenegro do not support these actions.

It is sad how such a country can be pressured into recognizing this.

I hail these actions. In fact they are no different than those that overthrew milosevic. The difference is that those were not democratic while these are.

Observer there are a number of things wrong in your theory about Serbia being to blame for the collapse of Yugoslavia.

Firstly non nationalist academics from all those places (not including Kosovo which has the least developed open discussion of recent history) you mentioned, do not solely blame Serbia. In fact they are very crticial of their own countries actions, as people in Serbia are. I find it absurd that you think the problem in Serbia is to do with nationalism and try to relate it to the collapse of Yugoslavia with some half baked theory about how nobody loves Serbia. Some of us travel around, have friends throughout the former Yugoslavia and we know whats what. It may suit certain politicians to pin the blame of the collapse of Yugoslavia only on Serbia, but private contacts tell us something else entirely. I also find it utterly absurd that you say that it is only Serbia that needs to change in the Balkans. What are people of Serbia born differently to their neighbours? What kind of theory is that? Its entirely likely that Serbs are born no better or worse than any of their neighbours.

Why on earth do you think that Serbia needs a peaceful but narrow nationalist like Rugova is beyond me. Nor do I ever remember Rugova holding out any olive branches to Serbs in Kosovo. Please give me some instances of when Rugova built bridges, met representatives of Kosovo Serb groups etc? I would love to hear about it.

Personally I am clear about the extent to Serbian responsibility for the collapse of Yugoslavia and why, but far more worrying is this idea that nationalist neighbours like to look at Serbia for responsibility and are keen to avoid any of their own.

I'd say posts like yours allows those former republics, that through nationalism / criminal / financial / political gain helped bring down Yugoslavia, a free pass.

Observer what are you talking about supposed 100 percent proof of Serbian victim mentality. All sides had their victims in the war. Further Serbia currently has more refugess or IDP's living upon its territory, its no wonder some of them feel like victims.

Your post is evidence itself of the victim mentality of other former Yugoslav republics (including Kosovo). They claim victim status, they are upset that Serbian victims exist because it undermines joint victim mentality.

I'm afraid you haven't read many books or listened to intellectuals from Croatia who were critical of Tudjman's policies or read about Bosnians critical of Izetbegovic and their role in the downfall of Yugoslavia. You should research the topic if you don't believe me. Please don't go on about conspiracy theories, I'm not interested.

On the other hand one would not expect examination of responsibility from nationalists of whichever persuasion.

President Tadic has apologised to Croatia and to Bosnia as far as I know. He is also waiting for an apology to Serb victims, which also have the right to an apology from those that persecuted them, or do you not think so?

Oh, and according to you Serbia should forget about Serbs in Kosovo, as we can be confident that Albanians will look after their human rights.

With all respect you must be joking. Serbia not only has a right to a foreign policy, but a responsiblity to Kosovo Serbs.

Most citizens of this once defiant, heroic republic will become slaves to the Russians & Americans / U.K. citizens who are fastly snapping up all the countries assests.

These people will forget that they are Slavs and will become Slaves, it has already started with the recognition of KiM.

Serbs are forgetting that Montenegro is now independent from Serbia and wants to join EU.

And how exactly do they join EU if they disagree with 80% of it's members?

Well, I'll tell you how: YOU DON'T!

Montenegro made the right decision and Belgrade with it's hooligan drones can't do anything about it!

I'm confused. Albanians say that Kosovo independence is the will of the albanian people.
Why don't the serbs in northern Kosovo have that same right to be independent? If albanians
can carv out a piece of Serbia and claim as their own why not give that same right to the
serbs? Serbs should respect the borders of other countries but no other country has to respect
the borders of Serbia. There is so much double standard in international politict that it makes me sick.
This hypocrisy will cause continuous conflict and if the international comunity thinks it
is solving problems they are actually creating new ones. Finally I must say that Montenegros
recognition of Kosovo is as low as it gets. The day after ICJ ruling in favour of Serbias initiative
they do this. But Milo and co., don't worry. The albanians are not done with their expansionism.

Although Montenegro wanted to be its own country from Serbia (like Cyprus wanted to be separate from Greece), that doesn't mean the Montenegrin people are all that different from the Serbs! It doesn't mean they have different values or a different culture! Kosovo is as much part of the Orthodox, Montenegrin heritage as it is for Serbia's. Therefore, trying to get the majority of Montenegro to endorse surrendering Kosovo to the Muslims (who they fear will erase its Christian landmarks and history) will no doubt fail!!!

If Montenegro truly is a democracy, the will of the people will prevail. This decision by the current goverment will be reconsidered at some point in the future.

Is Serbia going to send its tanks to Montenegro Peter?
Peter, the “good old times” when Serbia could use that language are gone.
It seems that the old attitude still lives though. Unfortunately these days it is only a breeze in the wind (it counts for nothing).
(blero, 14 October 2008 15:32)

Blero, once again you try to twist what is written to suit you. NO, Serbia is not going to send tanks and you very well know that. What will happen is Montengrins themselves are going to throw him out of office.

Bac, Milo was not elected democratically because he was elected on a lie. If he mentioned that he intended to recognize Kosovo he would have not been elected. How democratic is it to lie to people and expect to stay in power. That only happens in dictatorships.

Albanians, just accept the fact that Montenegrins are Serbs and don't want to turn their back to their brothers.
You sound so desperate to make it look like they actually feel closer to the Albanians.

The only genuine support you get is from Albania. The rest either have interests or are pressured.

I have not heard or read from any intellectual other than Serb intellectuals that blamed Slovenia, Croatia, Bosnia or Kosovo for the fall of Yugoslavia.

Observer, then you haven't been observing well.

Have you read anything by John Pilger? He has written quite a bit on this. Noam Chomsky speaks openly about who he thinks was responsible for the break up of Yugoslavia and it isn't the Serbs.

Gregory Clarke (former Australian diplomat now president of the Akita University in Tokyo) has written an artile titled "Serbia owed an apology for Kosovo".

Many others have written articles in various papers including "The Guardian" on what happened there.
There are many, many articles written and you seem to have missed them all. All of these articles were written by non Serbs.

And last but by no means least, have you watched that documentary "Stolen Kosovo" yet?
Yep, you guessed it, not made by the Serbs.

Good luck at becomeing more observant and living up to your name.

Andrija Mandic should be imprisioned for encouragement of violent demonstrations. Destroyment of the cars, shops and other private and other properties is not demonstration - it is riot and somebody must be responsible...
You can not call for the riots and afterwards not be responsible for the crashes. Later call to stop with destroyment doesn't make you less guilty...

To Peggy,
Milo, ban anything you want but you can't stop the people.

You have seriously underestimated the will of the people. You will pay the price sooner than you think.


Peggy! there were 10,000 people on this demostrations and 20-30% were radicals from Kosovo and Serbia.


I wouldent call 8,000 people a very stong will! Would you?

End of the day Monte Negro has recognised the reality,Kosovo is a country and a reality.

Can Serbian parties organise a single demonstration that does not finish in mayhem and chaos?
Have they heard of a term “peaceful demonstration”?

'End of the day', if Djukanovic does not reverse recognition, his 'days' are numbered.
(peter, sydney, 14 October 2008 14:23)

Is Serbia going to send its tanks to Montenegro Peter?
Peter, the “good old times” when Serbia could use that language are gone.
It seems that the old attitude still lives though. Unfortunately these days it is only a breeze in the wind (it counts for nothing).

In the long term Montenegro's decision to recognize Kosovo could turn out to be a helthy shock for Serbia. Of course people get engry when reality turns out to be quite different than what they've been told. Serbian people are facing one disappointment after an other, because the leading politicians and media never showed the courage to tell what really happened in the name of Serbs in Kosovo and why an moniored independent Kosovo is the best solution for the entire region. Let's hope to start a conscientious debate in Serbia.
Thanks.

Pavaresi:
The one with the matches is Mr Djukanovic.

And I do not have an issue with Montenegro's independence. And is also true for most of the pro-serb camp. What is however curious is the frequency with which the other side brings the issue up to support their arguments which implies that they are the ones for whom Montenegro's independence is an issue.


blero:
Your implication that all demonstrations by serbs and their supporters ends in violence is offensive. And nowhere did I advocate 'sending tanks'. That was your idea 'blero'.

Took you for one of the moderates - seems I was wrong.


To blame the montenegrin people for this recognition is wrong for is clear the majority are strongly against. The shame of this decision falls squarely on the Djukanovic & his gov't.
Unless he revokes this decision, his days in power are indeed numbered.

No serbian tanks required 'blero', just the will of the people.

Blero I'll name you at least over a hundred Serbian demonstations that were peaceful and whilst we are at it was the longest and most prolonged protest in Serbian / Balkan history. Its disputable but one protest was estimated at around 200,000.

In case you don't know they were the 1996-1997 student / anti government protests. Which coincidently might have been the last time Serbia had a chance to avoid the current situation in Kosovo

Oh and you bet that I am proud to have been counted among their number. They were creative, peaceful protests.

Its sad to think how many thousands of those people tried for one last push in this period, had their backs broken and ended up giving up and leaving the country. Still, their spirit lives on...

It looks like the same mode that was used in Belgrade in the burning of the embassies. I wouldn't be surprised if some of the same people were involved. It makes one wonder why wait for until after the weekend to protest. Were they waiting for the troublemakers from Belgrade to arrive or what?

What a shame.

>> As Jeremic said, Milo has proved that his Montenegro can not conduct an independent foreign policy and thus is not an independent country.

The so-called state of Montenegro, right? Only Serbia should be a state ad rule everyone else because they are so much smarter than anyone else. Who cares what Jeremic says anyway? Serbia is the one that is alone

> Mandić and Montenegrin Church official Amfilohije Radović tried unsuccessfully to calm the crowd down.

Yeah right. They light the fire and make beleive they are trying to stop it.

Montenegro left Serbia in 2006 and now they really left Serbia. That's independence.

Blero, once again you try to twist what is written to suit you. NO, Serbia is not going to send tanks and you very well know that. What will happen is Montengrins themselves are going to throw him out of office.
(Peggy, 14 October 2008 23:58)

Peggy, are we talking about another yogurt revolution then (like in Vojvodina)?

How exactly do you expect Serbs in Montenegro to behave when the Serb FM openly says that Montenegro is backstabbing Serbia? Where is the voice of reason for calling for calm? I believe we are all entitle to staging protests if we disagree with something but there is difference between peaceful protests and a total anarchy. The same group of people that are protesting now - were against Montenegro’s independence as well.

The only country in the entire region that needs to change is Serbia. All the ex-republics of Yugoslavia blame Serbia for the destruction of the state (Yugoslavia) that Serbs so much admire. It is time now for Serbs in Serbia, Kosovo, Bosnia, Croatia, Macedonia and Montenegro to reflect in their past actions and come to terms with the sad reality that they no longer possess the power to influence the government officials of other republics. The fact is that Prishtina, Sarajevo, Zagreb, and Podgorica are no longer controlled by communist bosses directly tied to Belgrade interests. If one speaks to a Slovene, Croat, Macedonian, Montenegro, Kosovar, and a Bosnian, you will get the same answer over and over that Serbs are responsible for the destruction of Yugoslavia. Unfortunately, the Serb population refuses to believe that they are the guilty party and until they do Serbia is bound to be the epicenter of all incoming conflicts.

The Serb nation lacks a courageous politician that can come out and tell the truth of what has happened in the past and who bears the responsibility. How do you reconcile something when one side won’t accept responsibility or sees things completely different from the other party? Serbs blamed and to this day they still blame, Slovenes, Croats, Bosnians, Albanians for the wars and destruction of Yugoslavia. The entire world blames Serbia. So that is why we are where are?

Serbia is in desperate need for a Dr. Rugova type of politician. It’s a shame that Serbs can not produce a similar type of politician that could forgive and forget and built bridges between communities and nations.

Thank you Montenegro for recognizing Kosovo!!!

Asim, I actually agree with you. And yes, I do believe that Serbia too as you say, because the current regime is focused on joining the EU and puts that as their priority. The current government would shoot itself in the foot in order to join the EU. They think it is good. If the Serbian people did not care for Kosovo so much, then they would have already recognized it ya know. If Djindjic was in power he would have not waited a week to do it, the same guy who thanked Albright for bombing us. You are completely correct, and for once I fully agree with an Albanian here on B92. Goodluck in Tirana.

Your implication that all demonstrations by serbs and their supporters end in violence is offensive.
(peter, sydney, 15 October 2008 01:48)

Peter, prove me wrong please. Please name just one.
You see Peter, disagreeing with a decision is one, acting in the manner that a number of demonstrators do only hurts the cause.
You can argue that we are talking about a handful (to what I agree) however the majority should repress these actions. I stress again Peter this hurts Serb cause only.
Also Peter, a moderate response is given as a response to a moderate comment.
I don’t think that yours was one, primarily because you are assuming on what the Montenegrins whilst having a Serb hat on.
If you want to know what Montenegrins might do, wear a Montenegrin hat.

And last but by no means least, have you watched that documentary "Stolen Kosovo" yet?
(Peggy, 15 October 2008 01:55)

Peggy, is that a documentary from 1912?

Montenegrins ARE Serbs and don't forget that.
(Peggy, 14 October 2008 11:00)

It is good to hear that 'Serbs' formally recognised Kosovo indepedence.

You forget that MNE is sovereign and can take any decision, regardless how crazy or silly may look for some. Milo is democratically elected and BTW if by far better leader than any Serbia has ever had, because the former look the future, while the latter look into the past.

Lazar
It is sad how such a country can be pressured into recognizing this.

Just the same Serbia will in the near future.
UAE has today recognised Kosovo and the will of Kosovans to be indipendent.

Smells like U.S. intervention. No matter how much people blame the West for the problems in the Balkans it is ultimatly upto their leaders to lead and have good Int'l PR and win the world over. Don't blame others for your leaders are weak and many of the Balkan people are gullable and nationalists.

It's your kinds fault and nobody elses.

"The violence broke out at the end of the rally, when the last speaker, Serbian List leader Andrija Mandić, warned of violent demonstrations if the Montenegrin government did not revoke its decision to recognize Kosovo’s unilateral independence declaration by Wednesday.
....
Mandić and Montenegrin Church official Afilohije Radović tried unsuccessfully to calm the crowd down."

Schizophrenia?

bganon,

I read your post carefully and it serves as a 100% proof that Serbian population is living in denial. It is this typical victim mentality that continues to plague Serbia in its ambitions to join the democratic world. The nationalities that comprised Yugoslavia are unequivocal in their judgment that Serbia is to blame for the fall of Yugoslavia and all the horrible wars that came there after. I have not heard or read from any intellectual other than Serb intellectuals that blamed Slovenia, Croatia, Bosnia or Kosovo for the fall of Yugoslavia.

If it was just you expressing an opinion it would not be a big deal, however as unfortunate as it is most Serbs believe that they are the victims and not the aggressors. Politicians in Serbia have done nothing to counter this mentality. Perhaps even your politicians think they are the victims of some sort of conspiracy. If that’s the case then I can’t see a way forward when Serbia as country hangs on to this victim mentality.

My point is that Serbia should cleanse itself and apologize to its victims and hope that it would be forgiven for its crimes. Never mind laying claims to Kosovo and other territories. Those days are long gone.

Serbs are forgetting that Montenegro is now independent from Serbia and wants to join EU.

And how exactly do they join EU if they disagree with 80% of it's members?

Well, I'll tell you how: YOU DON'T!

Montenegro made the right decision and Belgrade with it's hooligan drones can't do anything about it!

To Peggy,
Milo, ban anything you want but you can't stop the people.

You have seriously underestimated the will of the people. You will pay the price sooner than you think.


Peggy! there were 10,000 people on this demostrations and 20-30% were radicals from Kosovo and Serbia.


I wouldent call 8,000 people a very stong will! Would you?

End of the day Monte Negro has recognised the reality,Kosovo is a country and a reality.

Thank you Montenegro for recognizing Kosovo!!!

How exactly do you expect Serbs in Montenegro to behave when the Serb FM openly says that Montenegro is backstabbing Serbia? Where is the voice of reason for calling for calm? I believe we are all entitle to staging protests if we disagree with something but there is difference between peaceful protests and a total anarchy. The same group of people that are protesting now - were against Montenegro’s independence as well.

The only country in the entire region that needs to change is Serbia. All the ex-republics of Yugoslavia blame Serbia for the destruction of the state (Yugoslavia) that Serbs so much admire. It is time now for Serbs in Serbia, Kosovo, Bosnia, Croatia, Macedonia and Montenegro to reflect in their past actions and come to terms with the sad reality that they no longer possess the power to influence the government officials of other republics. The fact is that Prishtina, Sarajevo, Zagreb, and Podgorica are no longer controlled by communist bosses directly tied to Belgrade interests. If one speaks to a Slovene, Croat, Macedonian, Montenegro, Kosovar, and a Bosnian, you will get the same answer over and over that Serbs are responsible for the destruction of Yugoslavia. Unfortunately, the Serb population refuses to believe that they are the guilty party and until they do Serbia is bound to be the epicenter of all incoming conflicts.

The Serb nation lacks a courageous politician that can come out and tell the truth of what has happened in the past and who bears the responsibility. How do you reconcile something when one side won’t accept responsibility or sees things completely different from the other party? Serbs blamed and to this day they still blame, Slovenes, Croats, Bosnians, Albanians for the wars and destruction of Yugoslavia. The entire world blames Serbia. So that is why we are where are?

Serbia is in desperate need for a Dr. Rugova type of politician. It’s a shame that Serbs can not produce a similar type of politician that could forgive and forget and built bridges between communities and nations.

Can Serbian parties organise a single demonstration that does not finish in mayhem and chaos?
Have they heard of a term “peaceful demonstration”?

In the long term Montenegro's decision to recognize Kosovo could turn out to be a helthy shock for Serbia. Of course people get engry when reality turns out to be quite different than what they've been told. Serbian people are facing one disappointment after an other, because the leading politicians and media never showed the courage to tell what really happened in the name of Serbs in Kosovo and why an moniored independent Kosovo is the best solution for the entire region. Let's hope to start a conscientious debate in Serbia.
Thanks.

It looks like the same mode that was used in Belgrade in the burning of the embassies. I wouldn't be surprised if some of the same people were involved. It makes one wonder why wait for until after the weekend to protest. Were they waiting for the troublemakers from Belgrade to arrive or what?

What a shame.

'End of the day', if Djukanovic does not reverse recognition, his 'days' are numbered.
(peter, sydney, 14 October 2008 14:23)

Is Serbia going to send its tanks to Montenegro Peter?
Peter, the “good old times” when Serbia could use that language are gone.
It seems that the old attitude still lives though. Unfortunately these days it is only a breeze in the wind (it counts for nothing).

>> As Jeremic said, Milo has proved that his Montenegro can not conduct an independent foreign policy and thus is not an independent country.

The so-called state of Montenegro, right? Only Serbia should be a state ad rule everyone else because they are so much smarter than anyone else. Who cares what Jeremic says anyway? Serbia is the one that is alone

> Mandić and Montenegrin Church official Amfilohije Radović tried unsuccessfully to calm the crowd down.

Yeah right. They light the fire and make beleive they are trying to stop it.

Montenegro left Serbia in 2006 and now they really left Serbia. That's independence.

Andrija Mandic should be imprisioned for encouragement of violent demonstrations. Destroyment of the cars, shops and other private and other properties is not demonstration - it is riot and somebody must be responsible...
You can not call for the riots and afterwards not be responsible for the crashes. Later call to stop with destroyment doesn't make you less guilty...

Montenegrins ARE Serbs and don't forget that.
(Peggy, 14 October 2008 11:00)

It is good to hear that 'Serbs' formally recognised Kosovo indepedence.

You forget that MNE is sovereign and can take any decision, regardless how crazy or silly may look for some. Milo is democratically elected and BTW if by far better leader than any Serbia has ever had, because the former look the future, while the latter look into the past.

Lazar
It is sad how such a country can be pressured into recognizing this.

Just the same Serbia will in the near future.
UAE has today recognised Kosovo and the will of Kosovans to be indipendent.

bganon,

I read your post carefully and it serves as a 100% proof that Serbian population is living in denial. It is this typical victim mentality that continues to plague Serbia in its ambitions to join the democratic world. The nationalities that comprised Yugoslavia are unequivocal in their judgment that Serbia is to blame for the fall of Yugoslavia and all the horrible wars that came there after. I have not heard or read from any intellectual other than Serb intellectuals that blamed Slovenia, Croatia, Bosnia or Kosovo for the fall of Yugoslavia.

If it was just you expressing an opinion it would not be a big deal, however as unfortunate as it is most Serbs believe that they are the victims and not the aggressors. Politicians in Serbia have done nothing to counter this mentality. Perhaps even your politicians think they are the victims of some sort of conspiracy. If that’s the case then I can’t see a way forward when Serbia as country hangs on to this victim mentality.

My point is that Serbia should cleanse itself and apologize to its victims and hope that it would be forgiven for its crimes. Never mind laying claims to Kosovo and other territories. Those days are long gone.

Blero, once again you try to twist what is written to suit you. NO, Serbia is not going to send tanks and you very well know that. What will happen is Montengrins themselves are going to throw him out of office.
(Peggy, 14 October 2008 23:58)

Peggy, are we talking about another yogurt revolution then (like in Vojvodina)?

And last but by no means least, have you watched that documentary "Stolen Kosovo" yet?
(Peggy, 15 October 2008 01:55)

Peggy, is that a documentary from 1912?

Your implication that all demonstrations by serbs and their supporters end in violence is offensive.
(peter, sydney, 15 October 2008 01:48)

Peter, prove me wrong please. Please name just one.
You see Peter, disagreeing with a decision is one, acting in the manner that a number of demonstrators do only hurts the cause.
You can argue that we are talking about a handful (to what I agree) however the majority should repress these actions. I stress again Peter this hurts Serb cause only.
Also Peter, a moderate response is given as a response to a moderate comment.
I don’t think that yours was one, primarily because you are assuming on what the Montenegrins whilst having a Serb hat on.
If you want to know what Montenegrins might do, wear a Montenegrin hat.

Milo, ban anything you want but you can't stop the people.

You have seriously underestimated the will of the people. You will pay the price sooner than you think.
Either you revoke this revolting recognition or you will be forced to go to the polls where you will lose.

Never underestimate the will of the people. Montenegrins ARE Serbs and don't forget that.

"The violence broke out at the end of the rally, when the last speaker, Serbian List leader Andrija Mandić, warned of violent demonstrations if the Montenegrin government did not revoke its decision to recognize Kosovo’s unilateral independence declaration by Wednesday.
....
Mandić and Montenegrin Church official Afilohije Radović tried unsuccessfully to calm the crowd down."

Schizophrenia?

As Jeremic said, Milo has proved that his Montenegro can not conduct an independent foreign policy and thus is not an independent country.

Even worse. By going against the will of the Montenegrin people Milo has performed a very undemocratic action. To respect the will of the people is the very definition of democracy.

The only decent thing he can do now is declare a referendum on annulation of the Kosovo recognition. If a majority of people supports the recognition, only then it is a democratic decision.

The 'recognition of Kosovo is necessary for regional stability' is looking a little stupid today isn't it?

NMB the reason why what you call a healthy debate won't be started in Serbia on Kosovo is because Montenegro and Macedonia did not recognise Kosovo because of healthy belief in Kosovo independence ie democracy, solution for the region. No, they recognised Kosovo under pressure from US and their Albanian politicians. That is old fashioned, cynical politics which will not spur much debate, rather condemnation.

Funcakes I think those 'hooligan drones' were Podgorica's, not Belgrade's. If Belgrade's hooligan drones, as you call them, protested you would know about it. Still, why let anything get in the way of blaming Belgrade for absolutely anything and everything...

10,000 demonstrators is a conservative amount and is likely double that given the media and governments role to downplay the number.

As Podgorica has a population of 135,000 people, 20,000 demonstrators is a huge amount.

The fact that they are violent just demonstrates the passion people have for Kosovo and I really don't expect this violence to settle. The government will have to answer to the people why its soul was sold otherwise it will shortly need to revoke it's recognition before matters and the stability of the this Balkan country and region turn for the worst.

I am fairly certain Montenegro will be the first country to revoke recognition and then we can start talking about waves of countries following. It will begin slowly but then all of these arm twisted nations will finally be able to release the chains around their neck placed there by the world dictators.

It is quite obvious that both the US and EU are losing grip of the world financial system and political influence. Time is on our side.

Power to the people and may freedom prosper.

Peggy has once again nailed it.
Just look at the comments here, and look who is supporting Milo - all albanians and nobody else - that pretty much tells you all you need to know about who is Milo and who he works for. He is a shame for Montenegrin people, a huge shame and embarrassment.

Most citizens of this once defiant, heroic republic will become slaves to the Russians & Americans / U.K. citizens who are fastly snapping up all the countries assests.

These people will forget that they are Slavs and will become Slaves, it has already started with the recognition of KiM.

Observer there are a number of things wrong in your theory about Serbia being to blame for the collapse of Yugoslavia.

Firstly non nationalist academics from all those places (not including Kosovo which has the least developed open discussion of recent history) you mentioned, do not solely blame Serbia. In fact they are very crticial of their own countries actions, as people in Serbia are. I find it absurd that you think the problem in Serbia is to do with nationalism and try to relate it to the collapse of Yugoslavia with some half baked theory about how nobody loves Serbia. Some of us travel around, have friends throughout the former Yugoslavia and we know whats what. It may suit certain politicians to pin the blame of the collapse of Yugoslavia only on Serbia, but private contacts tell us something else entirely. I also find it utterly absurd that you say that it is only Serbia that needs to change in the Balkans. What are people of Serbia born differently to their neighbours? What kind of theory is that? Its entirely likely that Serbs are born no better or worse than any of their neighbours.

Why on earth do you think that Serbia needs a peaceful but narrow nationalist like Rugova is beyond me. Nor do I ever remember Rugova holding out any olive branches to Serbs in Kosovo. Please give me some instances of when Rugova built bridges, met representatives of Kosovo Serb groups etc? I would love to hear about it.

Personally I am clear about the extent to Serbian responsibility for the collapse of Yugoslavia and why, but far more worrying is this idea that nationalist neighbours like to look at Serbia for responsibility and are keen to avoid any of their own.

I'd say posts like yours allows those former republics, that through nationalism / criminal / financial / political gain helped bring down Yugoslavia, a free pass.

Although Montenegro wanted to be its own country from Serbia (like Cyprus wanted to be separate from Greece), that doesn't mean the Montenegrin people are all that different from the Serbs! It doesn't mean they have different values or a different culture! Kosovo is as much part of the Orthodox, Montenegrin heritage as it is for Serbia's. Therefore, trying to get the majority of Montenegro to endorse surrendering Kosovo to the Muslims (who they fear will erase its Christian landmarks and history) will no doubt fail!!!

If Montenegro truly is a democracy, the will of the people will prevail. This decision by the current goverment will be reconsidered at some point in the future.

Smells like U.S. intervention. No matter how much people blame the West for the problems in the Balkans it is ultimatly upto their leaders to lead and have good Int'l PR and win the world over. Don't blame others for your leaders are weak and many of the Balkan people are gullable and nationalists.

It's your kinds fault and nobody elses.

Dane:
Funny, according to the above article, Mandic was warning the gov't that the recognition of the 'pseudo-state' would provoke violent demonstrations. And at the end of the protest, he tried to calm the crowd down.

Equating this to 'inciting violence' & then calling for the arrest of an opposition leader is something one might expect of someone like Mugabe, not someone who claims to espouse the principles of democracy & freedom of speech.


Funcakes:
And just how do you recognise 'pseudo-state' when the overwhelming majority of your population is against it? Djukanovic did. Only problem for him is that this issue will not go away, - because it is not just a political issue, it is a matter of national honour.

Unless he reverses the recognition, & that soon, the people of Montenegro will almost certainly throw him out of government, after which he can look forward to a nice long vacation behind bars. And all Belgrade has to do is sit back & watch.


Agim:
You claim 20-30% of the protesters were from Serbia & Kosovo. You of course have a 'source' for this. What is it? Or are you just making it up as you go along.

And 8,000 - 10,000 people represent between 1 - 2 % of the population of the country. Not a bad start on short notice. Equivalent to a crowd of over 100,000 in Belgrade. Equivalent to a crowd of over 300,000 in Sydney.

And this is only the start.

'End of the day', if Djukanovic does not reverse recognition, his 'days' are numbered.

Agim, are you aware that 45% of montenegro's population did not want to break off? Are you aware that the only reason they did was because of minorities such as croats, albanians and bosniaks? WIth this in mind, it is clearly obvious that most orthodox people in montenegro do not support these actions.

It is sad how such a country can be pressured into recognizing this.

I hail these actions. In fact they are no different than those that overthrew milosevic. The difference is that those were not democratic while these are.

Someone wrote that 20-30% of the protesters were serbs from Kosovo and Belgrade. How do you know? Don't know where you get your numbers from. A fact is that a survey suggested that 80% of Montenegrins thought the recognision of Kososvo was wrong. And to Agim I should say that Kosovo will only be independent when Serbia gives the permission and when it joins the UN, that won't happen any time soon.

I'm confused. Albanians say that Kosovo independence is the will of the albanian people.
Why don't the serbs in northern Kosovo have that same right to be independent? If albanians
can carv out a piece of Serbia and claim as their own why not give that same right to the
serbs? Serbs should respect the borders of other countries but no other country has to respect
the borders of Serbia. There is so much double standard in international politict that it makes me sick.
This hypocrisy will cause continuous conflict and if the international comunity thinks it
is solving problems they are actually creating new ones. Finally I must say that Montenegros
recognition of Kosovo is as low as it gets. The day after ICJ ruling in favour of Serbias initiative
they do this. But Milo and co., don't worry. The albanians are not done with their expansionism.

Is Serbia going to send its tanks to Montenegro Peter?
Peter, the “good old times” when Serbia could use that language are gone.
It seems that the old attitude still lives though. Unfortunately these days it is only a breeze in the wind (it counts for nothing).
(blero, 14 October 2008 15:32)

Blero, once again you try to twist what is written to suit you. NO, Serbia is not going to send tanks and you very well know that. What will happen is Montengrins themselves are going to throw him out of office.

Bac, Milo was not elected democratically because he was elected on a lie. If he mentioned that he intended to recognize Kosovo he would have not been elected. How democratic is it to lie to people and expect to stay in power. That only happens in dictatorships.

Albanians, just accept the fact that Montenegrins are Serbs and don't want to turn their back to their brothers.
You sound so desperate to make it look like they actually feel closer to the Albanians.

The only genuine support you get is from Albania. The rest either have interests or are pressured.

Pavaresi:
The one with the matches is Mr Djukanovic.

And I do not have an issue with Montenegro's independence. And is also true for most of the pro-serb camp. What is however curious is the frequency with which the other side brings the issue up to support their arguments which implies that they are the ones for whom Montenegro's independence is an issue.


blero:
Your implication that all demonstrations by serbs and their supporters ends in violence is offensive. And nowhere did I advocate 'sending tanks'. That was your idea 'blero'.

Took you for one of the moderates - seems I was wrong.


To blame the montenegrin people for this recognition is wrong for is clear the majority are strongly against. The shame of this decision falls squarely on the Djukanovic & his gov't.
Unless he revokes this decision, his days in power are indeed numbered.

No serbian tanks required 'blero', just the will of the people.

I have not heard or read from any intellectual other than Serb intellectuals that blamed Slovenia, Croatia, Bosnia or Kosovo for the fall of Yugoslavia.

Observer, then you haven't been observing well.

Have you read anything by John Pilger? He has written quite a bit on this. Noam Chomsky speaks openly about who he thinks was responsible for the break up of Yugoslavia and it isn't the Serbs.

Gregory Clarke (former Australian diplomat now president of the Akita University in Tokyo) has written an artile titled "Serbia owed an apology for Kosovo".

Many others have written articles in various papers including "The Guardian" on what happened there.
There are many, many articles written and you seem to have missed them all. All of these articles were written by non Serbs.

And last but by no means least, have you watched that documentary "Stolen Kosovo" yet?
Yep, you guessed it, not made by the Serbs.

Good luck at becomeing more observant and living up to your name.

Asim, I actually agree with you. And yes, I do believe that Serbia too as you say, because the current regime is focused on joining the EU and puts that as their priority. The current government would shoot itself in the foot in order to join the EU. They think it is good. If the Serbian people did not care for Kosovo so much, then they would have already recognized it ya know. If Djindjic was in power he would have not waited a week to do it, the same guy who thanked Albright for bombing us. You are completely correct, and for once I fully agree with an Albanian here on B92. Goodluck in Tirana.

Observer what are you talking about supposed 100 percent proof of Serbian victim mentality. All sides had their victims in the war. Further Serbia currently has more refugess or IDP's living upon its territory, its no wonder some of them feel like victims.

Your post is evidence itself of the victim mentality of other former Yugoslav republics (including Kosovo). They claim victim status, they are upset that Serbian victims exist because it undermines joint victim mentality.

I'm afraid you haven't read many books or listened to intellectuals from Croatia who were critical of Tudjman's policies or read about Bosnians critical of Izetbegovic and their role in the downfall of Yugoslavia. You should research the topic if you don't believe me. Please don't go on about conspiracy theories, I'm not interested.

On the other hand one would not expect examination of responsibility from nationalists of whichever persuasion.

President Tadic has apologised to Croatia and to Bosnia as far as I know. He is also waiting for an apology to Serb victims, which also have the right to an apology from those that persecuted them, or do you not think so?

Oh, and according to you Serbia should forget about Serbs in Kosovo, as we can be confident that Albanians will look after their human rights.

With all respect you must be joking. Serbia not only has a right to a foreign policy, but a responsiblity to Kosovo Serbs.

Blero I'll name you at least over a hundred Serbian demonstations that were peaceful and whilst we are at it was the longest and most prolonged protest in Serbian / Balkan history. Its disputable but one protest was estimated at around 200,000.

In case you don't know they were the 1996-1997 student / anti government protests. Which coincidently might have been the last time Serbia had a chance to avoid the current situation in Kosovo

Oh and you bet that I am proud to have been counted among their number. They were creative, peaceful protests.

Its sad to think how many thousands of those people tried for one last push in this period, had their backs broken and ended up giving up and leaving the country. Still, their spirit lives on...