23

Sunday, 12.10.2008.

17:51

"Kosovo prepares ICJ defense"

A Kosovo official says "defense plans for the legality of Kosovo's independence proclamation before the International Court of Justice are nearing completion".

Izvor: FoNet

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23 Komentari

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Olli

pre 15 godina

Vlora Citaku says:

there is no need to fear the ICJ ruling since "all political, historical and legal arguments are on our [Kosovo Albanian's] side".

There's one plain and clear proof that the case isn't at all as Mrs. Citaku falsely claims: the need to repeatedly call Kosovo independence as a special case, unique, sui generis.

Otherwise I must confess you of one of my sincerest thoughts, conceived by 25 years of Balkan experience: Most of Serbs, as most of Kosovo Albanians, don't have balls, righteousness and wisdom to see the filth and dirt in their own corners.

How long can they defend themselves saying that it is only human...?

No, no, no,... I'm not expecting armies of saints and angels.

Mr. X

pre 15 godina

Well the end result will be the same on this ICJ ruling. It will state:
"Kosovo is a unique case, therefore it was according to the International Law"
Anyway, thank you United Arab Emirates for becoming the 51st state to recognize Kosovo reality. Its about time.

Nehat

pre 15 godina

Serbia has won, admirably however this does not pose any threat as you all saw with Macedonia and Montenegro. Your only chance now is to win the icj ruling, and that in my opinion will never happen. It's a lost cause, and to prove you all full air! i will copy every comment made today and then post it up on this same site when you lose the ruling.

Albo_Canada

pre 15 godina

You know what ICJ is on Kosova behalf?, it's actually just a piece of paper that will be read at the UN and it's not a bill(proposal) that they(UN members) have to vote on. It's only a thought if I may say. Nothing to worry about, nothing at all but yeah when it comes to Kosova joining EU and North Atlantic integrations this thing might stand on it's way. However my opinion is that at same year Kosova and Serbia will join EU, but again I say it Kosovo might go in faster because Serbia is politically attacking and causing unrest in Montenegro and northern Kosova. ICJ won't take long to make that formal document and/or speech, why is that? it's becasue all neighbouring countries have recognised Kosova as independent Country. It seems that only Serbia disagrees with the real life in Kosova. Montenegro and Macedonia have already asked authorities to establish diplomatic relationships with Prishtina. I hope I'm wrong but this is truth and I'm not saying because I like it but because too many EU and world countries are saying so. Anyways whatever happens next one thing we know that once the Ballkan countries go into EU then there is no border between all of us. If you think differently please let me know. Have a good night everyone.

Dragan, Toronto

pre 15 godina

Pleurat,

Serbians aspire to join the European Union too one day, however as a unitary state, indivisible, sovereign and independent, within its borders. That is the Serbia that wants to join the E.U., not a rump, decapitated and humiliated parcel.

pleurat

pre 15 godina

Dragan; (Alot of illegal acts were formented on Yugoslavia and Serbia with the ultimate aim of dismembering it to meet their agendas) Very true,and if i may ad it has turned out to be a very popular agenda that is called EUROPEAN UNION,that Serbia hopes to join sometime in the future.It was and is an agenda of free nations to live in peace and prosperity.A very diferent agenda from Serbia.Wouldnt you agree?

pss

pre 15 godina

"Court is always a gamble and further rambling, about who will win is baseless. Better predict the future based on what is in the bottom of your morning coffee"
Ataman

I do not think I have ever read a more intelligent statement in B92.

Dragan, Toronto

pre 15 godina

Some guy was complaining on this post about a few items but forgot to mention 1998. The arrival of observers, who set up markers/targets almost 6 months before the bombing. Workers of clandestine activities aimed at destabilizing a sovereign country, under questionable auspices.Alot of illegal acts were formented on Yugoslavia and Serbia with the ultimate aim of dismembering it to meet their agendas. The UDI was a classic example of an illegal act. The plan drawn by Ahtisarri was one-sided. AT least present a plan that is acceptable to both sides before passing, before rewarding one side only. Then using pressure to coerce in many ways foreign nations that don't agree with international law being broken with threats, intimidation etc. Thats all gonna change soon, as the international balance of power has shifted to a multi-polar world, following the failed fiasco of one empire to rule the world in multi-sphere of interests.

Niall O'Doherty

pre 15 godina

Ethnic cleansing of non Albanians, 300,000 of them since 1999 not to mention the campaign of intimidation and terror before that. Ethnic minorities living in ghettos surrounded by barbed wire and KFOR troops, churches destroyed and schools belonging to non Albanians torn down for 'planning violations', its gonna be a hoot.

Funcakes

pre 15 godina

The reason why Kosovo will win is pretty simple.

The part that says Kosovo is part of Yugoslavia only appears in the PREAMBLE of RESOLUTION 1244.

Preambles of UN resolutions are legally non-binding.

Case closed.

sunny

pre 15 godina

the albanians also have a history in kosovo not only serbs some how you all forget that and just as kosovo was given to serbia it has been given back to the people it belongs to including kosovo serbs. no matter how politicians and people twist perceptions or propogandists.

roberto

pre 15 godina

Yes, this court case ought to be very interesting, when all of the facts come out, and many of them are very, very ugly indeed. milosevic was just one point in this history of crimes and repression, and the more you read and learn, the worse it gets.

I am glad that one of the posters brought up about the "alleged" mass poisonings of ethnic albanian schoolchildren, which, as i understand it, took place not in 1989, but shortly after, in the spring of 1990 (an honest oversight.) we have a chapter in our (upcoming) book devoted to it. we have interviewed a number of persons about the case: human rights advocates, doctors, and victims, as well as gone thru much of the literature. of course the other side claimed that the kids were all "acting" or suffering from some sort of mass hysteria, but if there was "hysteria" it was based on a very real toxic substance. at the time, the schoolchildren had just been segregated. anyway, i hope even more info comes out at the trial.

and so much else, but i have no time here.

this is why i have said: "bump in the road." in reality, as happens sometimes in life, the ICJ case provides us an opportunity, and in some ways, our day in court.

carry on...

thank you.

roberto

Peggy

pre 15 godina

Judging by the Albanian reaction I have certainly hit a nerve. Now whose posts smack of desperation?

You can repeat the same mantra a million times and won't do any good. The law is on Serbia's side and you know it. Why else would the US vote against at the GA?
Repeating the same old worn out propaganda is not going to work in court. The court deals with facts and truth, not propaganda.

I don't feel any desperation at all and cannot see why I would be acused of that. All I did was put forward a few questions which none of you have managed to answer. All you've done is go on the attack.
Yep, you are still using he same tactic. Offense is the best defense. Attack all you want but in court you will be disarmed.

Ataman

pre 15 godina

YOU did!
No, YOU did!
ME? Not me, it's YOU!

and so on.

I am tired of that.

1) EVERYONE DID
2) If I am a judge I don't care less, did Albanians murder 2 million Serbs 200 years ago or Serbs did it 100 years ago. I know precisely, in ethnic issues there is no 100% victim and no 100% villain. I don't care about the rest. I will take the paperwork from Ms. Citaku and from Mr. Jeremic and see what happened after 1999.

Sorry to by cynical - the judges will try to simplify the entire thing to maximum. Maybe they will look at the Dayton, certainly at Ramboullet (including the secret protocol and the "humanitarian bombing" legality) and 1244 and... whatever they will decide. Most likely what would weigh, did anyone "trick" the other side into some agreement under force and blackmail - which was later circumvented or not.

I will push all humanitarian issues to other courts like Hague or so. I am a bureaucrat, not historian, not interested, was it 3 million years ago a Serbian monkey who climbed down the tree first or Albanian. Not my desk.

If I am Albanian: if everything was in spirit of UN practice with Ramboullet and it's secret protocol, later the "bombing" and if there was no circumvention of 1244: I would be very confident, I have a rock-solid case and Serbia's resolution will be thrown out.

If I am Serbian: the more things are fishy with above, the more confident I would be.

Regardless, what I think, there likely will be judges who will side with Ms. Citaku. Having a lady to present the case for Albanians is a very smart move. Serbs should assume, she is well-prepared and make no mistake presenting their case. No whining and no finger-pointing.

Court is always a gamble and further rambling, who will win is baseless. Better predict the future based on what is on the bottom of your morning coffee.

EA

pre 15 godina

"...if the decision of ICJ is not important as I have read hear many times, why even bother showing up?
Looks like is it very important. "

Peggy,

To be honest the proceedings towards ICJ would be a waste of time and is purely for Serbia's internal politics. Serbia was within its right to apply for an opinion of the ICJ. As far as I am aware the UN never has rejected any application from a UN member state to ask Court's opinion.
The Court proceedings may delay recognition by some countries that are reluctant. Of course Kosova will put its case forward and very very strongly believe me. Historical/political FACTS will be looked very closely and I am preatty sure that Serbia will be disappointed with the Courts OPINION which as you might know it is not legally binding. The OPINION will be referred to the past actions and not future events.

Pavaresi

pre 15 godina

Peggy,
your post smacks of desperation because you know what Kosova will present and independence is the only way fr Kosovars to live in peace and with the rights guaranteed by the international law. You cannot treat people like you want because you think you 'own' the land.

Not just Milosevic but since 1878 when Albanians were massacred and brutally thrown out of Nis. The 1912 'liberation,' 1918, the colonizations, the expulsion of Albanians to Turkey, Rankovic, Slobodan massacres and the autonomy reversal, and the attitudes of Serbs /Serb officials against the 'shiptar invaders.'

What you say that Albanians did are irrelevant, what Serbs did was state sponsored, and that is the key. if a Serb does something to me, I have no case, but if the Government tells him to do so, then it's different. Will you stop with the organ trading lies? You only lose (more) credibility.

Didn't Serbs vote for the Radical Party as late as 2008? Check to see what their leader, Seselj, said about the Albanians (and Croats, and Slovenians, and ...)

Ajsel

pre 15 godina

Serbia has a lot of material to present too. The problem for you is that Serbia will have the truth. More people are aware of what has gone on and there is a huge amount of material out there to counter your propaganda.
Peggy we have as well lots of material to present to.In 1989 if some of you can remember poisoning the children in school I know it because I was there this is only one of the materials and there is more trust me.
Oh we are not afraid to defend ourselves because we are not the guilty ones and we have enough proof for what the serbian police and army did to our people and to our homes.Ok if you say albanians were terorists but I really dont understand why did they burn our homes,why did they close our schools our university please give us a break for once and accept what you've done was wrong and you can not make 2 milion people live under serbian rule again kosova independence is done deal there is no turning back.

EA

pre 15 godina

"....this stillborn puppet is simply the result of albanian terrorist-attacks on policemen, on serbian and albanian citizens of Serbia, and even on innocent children drinking hot chocolate in cafe´s.

Jovan,

You "touched" our hearts with you above lies. Just wait and see! The lies and misleadings do not work anymore. The Court will have the facts about Kosova history/war very clearly in tapes, documents, archives etc and etc and there will be no room to hide. You will be very cleared about the political role of KLA and the role of Serbian state in the conflict. As you might know the Court opinion is not legally binding and by them many more countries will recognise Kosova as an independent country. There is no return back to Serbia Jovan.

Gary T.

pre 15 godina

What ever you do. kosovo UDI has no legality coz there is no agreement with Belgrade about your so called independence. and the absence of UNSC resolution

Peggy

pre 15 godina

It's always the same thing. We had to do this because of Milosevic.

Milosevic is no longer alive let alone in power. Are you afraid of his ghost? Give me a break.

What defense have you when Serbs put forward the truth about KLA murdering not only the Serbs but also the Albanians who didn't go along with the terror?
What about organ trafficking?

What about expulsion of the Serbs and all others who are not Albanian or KLA friendly?

How are you going to explain all those destroyed churches and monasteries? How are you going to explain why Serbs have to live behind barbed wire in some areas and Albanians don't. Why are Serbian people escorted by NATO to schools and places of worship?

Serbia has a lot of material to present too. The problem for you is that Serbia will have the truth. More people are aware of what has gone on and there is a huge amount of material out there to counter your propaganda.

Bottom line, if the decision of ICJ is not important as I have read hear many times, why even bother showing up?
Looks like is it very important.

Pavaresi

pre 15 godina

>> "my dear albanian friends, your big friend, the " one and only global superpower" is getting weaker and weaker, and you will feel that too. it´s only a question of time, until they are going to discuss the Kosovo-issue with Belgrade, without even asking you."

Really?
1. The Taliban is killing Americans and it's costing the US a fortune (there is peace in Kosovo, just some NATO soldiers patrolling with side pistols!!!)
2. US is doing most of the lifting there (EU /NATO in Kosovo)
3. Afghanistan is in deep in Asia, not in Europe and no one will negotiate behind the back of the people who are suppose to just accept it.
4. Keep dreaming.
5. Russia is in worst shape; US has hit a bump in a otherwise solid economy, Russia is propped up by oil prices.
6. No Albanian will take your offer of servitude
7. Brittain, France, Germany and Turkey support us as well so it isn't just the USA. Plus, Kosovo in technically under NATO protection

Jovan

pre 15 godina

""along with the fact that the creation of the state of Kosovo is a result of the breakup of the former Yugoslavia and the wars led in the 1900s"

left aside that there is no state called Kosovo... =)

this stillborn puppet is simply the result of albanian terrorist-attacks on policemen, on serbian and albanian citizens of Serbia, and even on innocent children drinking hot chocolate in cafe´s.

and these terrorists were supported by the US.

that´s a fact, my dear friends.

but it will be a pleasure to see this frankenstein-creature fall apart in the future.

just today I read that the US are looking for ways to get the Taliban into peace talks...
http://www.ft.com/cms/s/0/66faed7a-9666-11dd-9dce-000077b07658.html?nclick_check=1

my dear albanian friends, your big friend, the " one and only global superpower" is getting weaker and weaker, and you will feel that too. it´s only a question of time, until they are going to discuss the Kosovo-issue with Belgrade, without even asking you.

then, your position will be much worse than the one offered by Serbia a few months ago!

let´s just see what future brings...

kufr

pre 15 godina

Well according to this text it is very clear that it is not Kosovo that is preparing it's defense, but the Albanians. Kosovo has done nothing wrong, it is the Albanians who has declared independence against the rules of international law.

I think it's good they are preparing their defense. That way they can't say afterwards they didn't defend themselves.

Jovan

pre 15 godina

""along with the fact that the creation of the state of Kosovo is a result of the breakup of the former Yugoslavia and the wars led in the 1900s"

left aside that there is no state called Kosovo... =)

this stillborn puppet is simply the result of albanian terrorist-attacks on policemen, on serbian and albanian citizens of Serbia, and even on innocent children drinking hot chocolate in cafe´s.

and these terrorists were supported by the US.

that´s a fact, my dear friends.

but it will be a pleasure to see this frankenstein-creature fall apart in the future.

just today I read that the US are looking for ways to get the Taliban into peace talks...
http://www.ft.com/cms/s/0/66faed7a-9666-11dd-9dce-000077b07658.html?nclick_check=1

my dear albanian friends, your big friend, the " one and only global superpower" is getting weaker and weaker, and you will feel that too. it´s only a question of time, until they are going to discuss the Kosovo-issue with Belgrade, without even asking you.

then, your position will be much worse than the one offered by Serbia a few months ago!

let´s just see what future brings...

kufr

pre 15 godina

Well according to this text it is very clear that it is not Kosovo that is preparing it's defense, but the Albanians. Kosovo has done nothing wrong, it is the Albanians who has declared independence against the rules of international law.

I think it's good they are preparing their defense. That way they can't say afterwards they didn't defend themselves.

Gary T.

pre 15 godina

What ever you do. kosovo UDI has no legality coz there is no agreement with Belgrade about your so called independence. and the absence of UNSC resolution

Peggy

pre 15 godina

It's always the same thing. We had to do this because of Milosevic.

Milosevic is no longer alive let alone in power. Are you afraid of his ghost? Give me a break.

What defense have you when Serbs put forward the truth about KLA murdering not only the Serbs but also the Albanians who didn't go along with the terror?
What about organ trafficking?

What about expulsion of the Serbs and all others who are not Albanian or KLA friendly?

How are you going to explain all those destroyed churches and monasteries? How are you going to explain why Serbs have to live behind barbed wire in some areas and Albanians don't. Why are Serbian people escorted by NATO to schools and places of worship?

Serbia has a lot of material to present too. The problem for you is that Serbia will have the truth. More people are aware of what has gone on and there is a huge amount of material out there to counter your propaganda.

Bottom line, if the decision of ICJ is not important as I have read hear many times, why even bother showing up?
Looks like is it very important.

EA

pre 15 godina

"....this stillborn puppet is simply the result of albanian terrorist-attacks on policemen, on serbian and albanian citizens of Serbia, and even on innocent children drinking hot chocolate in cafe´s.

Jovan,

You "touched" our hearts with you above lies. Just wait and see! The lies and misleadings do not work anymore. The Court will have the facts about Kosova history/war very clearly in tapes, documents, archives etc and etc and there will be no room to hide. You will be very cleared about the political role of KLA and the role of Serbian state in the conflict. As you might know the Court opinion is not legally binding and by them many more countries will recognise Kosova as an independent country. There is no return back to Serbia Jovan.

Pavaresi

pre 15 godina

>> "my dear albanian friends, your big friend, the " one and only global superpower" is getting weaker and weaker, and you will feel that too. it´s only a question of time, until they are going to discuss the Kosovo-issue with Belgrade, without even asking you."

Really?
1. The Taliban is killing Americans and it's costing the US a fortune (there is peace in Kosovo, just some NATO soldiers patrolling with side pistols!!!)
2. US is doing most of the lifting there (EU /NATO in Kosovo)
3. Afghanistan is in deep in Asia, not in Europe and no one will negotiate behind the back of the people who are suppose to just accept it.
4. Keep dreaming.
5. Russia is in worst shape; US has hit a bump in a otherwise solid economy, Russia is propped up by oil prices.
6. No Albanian will take your offer of servitude
7. Brittain, France, Germany and Turkey support us as well so it isn't just the USA. Plus, Kosovo in technically under NATO protection

Niall O'Doherty

pre 15 godina

Ethnic cleansing of non Albanians, 300,000 of them since 1999 not to mention the campaign of intimidation and terror before that. Ethnic minorities living in ghettos surrounded by barbed wire and KFOR troops, churches destroyed and schools belonging to non Albanians torn down for 'planning violations', its gonna be a hoot.

Pavaresi

pre 15 godina

Peggy,
your post smacks of desperation because you know what Kosova will present and independence is the only way fr Kosovars to live in peace and with the rights guaranteed by the international law. You cannot treat people like you want because you think you 'own' the land.

Not just Milosevic but since 1878 when Albanians were massacred and brutally thrown out of Nis. The 1912 'liberation,' 1918, the colonizations, the expulsion of Albanians to Turkey, Rankovic, Slobodan massacres and the autonomy reversal, and the attitudes of Serbs /Serb officials against the 'shiptar invaders.'

What you say that Albanians did are irrelevant, what Serbs did was state sponsored, and that is the key. if a Serb does something to me, I have no case, but if the Government tells him to do so, then it's different. Will you stop with the organ trading lies? You only lose (more) credibility.

Didn't Serbs vote for the Radical Party as late as 2008? Check to see what their leader, Seselj, said about the Albanians (and Croats, and Slovenians, and ...)

EA

pre 15 godina

"...if the decision of ICJ is not important as I have read hear many times, why even bother showing up?
Looks like is it very important. "

Peggy,

To be honest the proceedings towards ICJ would be a waste of time and is purely for Serbia's internal politics. Serbia was within its right to apply for an opinion of the ICJ. As far as I am aware the UN never has rejected any application from a UN member state to ask Court's opinion.
The Court proceedings may delay recognition by some countries that are reluctant. Of course Kosova will put its case forward and very very strongly believe me. Historical/political FACTS will be looked very closely and I am preatty sure that Serbia will be disappointed with the Courts OPINION which as you might know it is not legally binding. The OPINION will be referred to the past actions and not future events.

roberto

pre 15 godina

Yes, this court case ought to be very interesting, when all of the facts come out, and many of them are very, very ugly indeed. milosevic was just one point in this history of crimes and repression, and the more you read and learn, the worse it gets.

I am glad that one of the posters brought up about the "alleged" mass poisonings of ethnic albanian schoolchildren, which, as i understand it, took place not in 1989, but shortly after, in the spring of 1990 (an honest oversight.) we have a chapter in our (upcoming) book devoted to it. we have interviewed a number of persons about the case: human rights advocates, doctors, and victims, as well as gone thru much of the literature. of course the other side claimed that the kids were all "acting" or suffering from some sort of mass hysteria, but if there was "hysteria" it was based on a very real toxic substance. at the time, the schoolchildren had just been segregated. anyway, i hope even more info comes out at the trial.

and so much else, but i have no time here.

this is why i have said: "bump in the road." in reality, as happens sometimes in life, the ICJ case provides us an opportunity, and in some ways, our day in court.

carry on...

thank you.

roberto

Funcakes

pre 15 godina

The reason why Kosovo will win is pretty simple.

The part that says Kosovo is part of Yugoslavia only appears in the PREAMBLE of RESOLUTION 1244.

Preambles of UN resolutions are legally non-binding.

Case closed.

Ajsel

pre 15 godina

Serbia has a lot of material to present too. The problem for you is that Serbia will have the truth. More people are aware of what has gone on and there is a huge amount of material out there to counter your propaganda.
Peggy we have as well lots of material to present to.In 1989 if some of you can remember poisoning the children in school I know it because I was there this is only one of the materials and there is more trust me.
Oh we are not afraid to defend ourselves because we are not the guilty ones and we have enough proof for what the serbian police and army did to our people and to our homes.Ok if you say albanians were terorists but I really dont understand why did they burn our homes,why did they close our schools our university please give us a break for once and accept what you've done was wrong and you can not make 2 milion people live under serbian rule again kosova independence is done deal there is no turning back.

Peggy

pre 15 godina

Judging by the Albanian reaction I have certainly hit a nerve. Now whose posts smack of desperation?

You can repeat the same mantra a million times and won't do any good. The law is on Serbia's side and you know it. Why else would the US vote against at the GA?
Repeating the same old worn out propaganda is not going to work in court. The court deals with facts and truth, not propaganda.

I don't feel any desperation at all and cannot see why I would be acused of that. All I did was put forward a few questions which none of you have managed to answer. All you've done is go on the attack.
Yep, you are still using he same tactic. Offense is the best defense. Attack all you want but in court you will be disarmed.

sunny

pre 15 godina

the albanians also have a history in kosovo not only serbs some how you all forget that and just as kosovo was given to serbia it has been given back to the people it belongs to including kosovo serbs. no matter how politicians and people twist perceptions or propogandists.

Dragan, Toronto

pre 15 godina

Some guy was complaining on this post about a few items but forgot to mention 1998. The arrival of observers, who set up markers/targets almost 6 months before the bombing. Workers of clandestine activities aimed at destabilizing a sovereign country, under questionable auspices.Alot of illegal acts were formented on Yugoslavia and Serbia with the ultimate aim of dismembering it to meet their agendas. The UDI was a classic example of an illegal act. The plan drawn by Ahtisarri was one-sided. AT least present a plan that is acceptable to both sides before passing, before rewarding one side only. Then using pressure to coerce in many ways foreign nations that don't agree with international law being broken with threats, intimidation etc. Thats all gonna change soon, as the international balance of power has shifted to a multi-polar world, following the failed fiasco of one empire to rule the world in multi-sphere of interests.

pleurat

pre 15 godina

Dragan; (Alot of illegal acts were formented on Yugoslavia and Serbia with the ultimate aim of dismembering it to meet their agendas) Very true,and if i may ad it has turned out to be a very popular agenda that is called EUROPEAN UNION,that Serbia hopes to join sometime in the future.It was and is an agenda of free nations to live in peace and prosperity.A very diferent agenda from Serbia.Wouldnt you agree?

Ataman

pre 15 godina

YOU did!
No, YOU did!
ME? Not me, it's YOU!

and so on.

I am tired of that.

1) EVERYONE DID
2) If I am a judge I don't care less, did Albanians murder 2 million Serbs 200 years ago or Serbs did it 100 years ago. I know precisely, in ethnic issues there is no 100% victim and no 100% villain. I don't care about the rest. I will take the paperwork from Ms. Citaku and from Mr. Jeremic and see what happened after 1999.

Sorry to by cynical - the judges will try to simplify the entire thing to maximum. Maybe they will look at the Dayton, certainly at Ramboullet (including the secret protocol and the "humanitarian bombing" legality) and 1244 and... whatever they will decide. Most likely what would weigh, did anyone "trick" the other side into some agreement under force and blackmail - which was later circumvented or not.

I will push all humanitarian issues to other courts like Hague or so. I am a bureaucrat, not historian, not interested, was it 3 million years ago a Serbian monkey who climbed down the tree first or Albanian. Not my desk.

If I am Albanian: if everything was in spirit of UN practice with Ramboullet and it's secret protocol, later the "bombing" and if there was no circumvention of 1244: I would be very confident, I have a rock-solid case and Serbia's resolution will be thrown out.

If I am Serbian: the more things are fishy with above, the more confident I would be.

Regardless, what I think, there likely will be judges who will side with Ms. Citaku. Having a lady to present the case for Albanians is a very smart move. Serbs should assume, she is well-prepared and make no mistake presenting their case. No whining and no finger-pointing.

Court is always a gamble and further rambling, who will win is baseless. Better predict the future based on what is on the bottom of your morning coffee.

Dragan, Toronto

pre 15 godina

Pleurat,

Serbians aspire to join the European Union too one day, however as a unitary state, indivisible, sovereign and independent, within its borders. That is the Serbia that wants to join the E.U., not a rump, decapitated and humiliated parcel.

pss

pre 15 godina

"Court is always a gamble and further rambling, about who will win is baseless. Better predict the future based on what is in the bottom of your morning coffee"
Ataman

I do not think I have ever read a more intelligent statement in B92.

Albo_Canada

pre 15 godina

You know what ICJ is on Kosova behalf?, it's actually just a piece of paper that will be read at the UN and it's not a bill(proposal) that they(UN members) have to vote on. It's only a thought if I may say. Nothing to worry about, nothing at all but yeah when it comes to Kosova joining EU and North Atlantic integrations this thing might stand on it's way. However my opinion is that at same year Kosova and Serbia will join EU, but again I say it Kosovo might go in faster because Serbia is politically attacking and causing unrest in Montenegro and northern Kosova. ICJ won't take long to make that formal document and/or speech, why is that? it's becasue all neighbouring countries have recognised Kosova as independent Country. It seems that only Serbia disagrees with the real life in Kosova. Montenegro and Macedonia have already asked authorities to establish diplomatic relationships with Prishtina. I hope I'm wrong but this is truth and I'm not saying because I like it but because too many EU and world countries are saying so. Anyways whatever happens next one thing we know that once the Ballkan countries go into EU then there is no border between all of us. If you think differently please let me know. Have a good night everyone.

Nehat

pre 15 godina

Serbia has won, admirably however this does not pose any threat as you all saw with Macedonia and Montenegro. Your only chance now is to win the icj ruling, and that in my opinion will never happen. It's a lost cause, and to prove you all full air! i will copy every comment made today and then post it up on this same site when you lose the ruling.

Mr. X

pre 15 godina

Well the end result will be the same on this ICJ ruling. It will state:
"Kosovo is a unique case, therefore it was according to the International Law"
Anyway, thank you United Arab Emirates for becoming the 51st state to recognize Kosovo reality. Its about time.

Olli

pre 15 godina

Vlora Citaku says:

there is no need to fear the ICJ ruling since "all political, historical and legal arguments are on our [Kosovo Albanian's] side".

There's one plain and clear proof that the case isn't at all as Mrs. Citaku falsely claims: the need to repeatedly call Kosovo independence as a special case, unique, sui generis.

Otherwise I must confess you of one of my sincerest thoughts, conceived by 25 years of Balkan experience: Most of Serbs, as most of Kosovo Albanians, don't have balls, righteousness and wisdom to see the filth and dirt in their own corners.

How long can they defend themselves saying that it is only human...?

No, no, no,... I'm not expecting armies of saints and angels.

Jovan

pre 15 godina

""along with the fact that the creation of the state of Kosovo is a result of the breakup of the former Yugoslavia and the wars led in the 1900s"

left aside that there is no state called Kosovo... =)

this stillborn puppet is simply the result of albanian terrorist-attacks on policemen, on serbian and albanian citizens of Serbia, and even on innocent children drinking hot chocolate in cafe´s.

and these terrorists were supported by the US.

that´s a fact, my dear friends.

but it will be a pleasure to see this frankenstein-creature fall apart in the future.

just today I read that the US are looking for ways to get the Taliban into peace talks...
http://www.ft.com/cms/s/0/66faed7a-9666-11dd-9dce-000077b07658.html?nclick_check=1

my dear albanian friends, your big friend, the " one and only global superpower" is getting weaker and weaker, and you will feel that too. it´s only a question of time, until they are going to discuss the Kosovo-issue with Belgrade, without even asking you.

then, your position will be much worse than the one offered by Serbia a few months ago!

let´s just see what future brings...

Pavaresi

pre 15 godina

>> "my dear albanian friends, your big friend, the " one and only global superpower" is getting weaker and weaker, and you will feel that too. it´s only a question of time, until they are going to discuss the Kosovo-issue with Belgrade, without even asking you."

Really?
1. The Taliban is killing Americans and it's costing the US a fortune (there is peace in Kosovo, just some NATO soldiers patrolling with side pistols!!!)
2. US is doing most of the lifting there (EU /NATO in Kosovo)
3. Afghanistan is in deep in Asia, not in Europe and no one will negotiate behind the back of the people who are suppose to just accept it.
4. Keep dreaming.
5. Russia is in worst shape; US has hit a bump in a otherwise solid economy, Russia is propped up by oil prices.
6. No Albanian will take your offer of servitude
7. Brittain, France, Germany and Turkey support us as well so it isn't just the USA. Plus, Kosovo in technically under NATO protection

Peggy

pre 15 godina

It's always the same thing. We had to do this because of Milosevic.

Milosevic is no longer alive let alone in power. Are you afraid of his ghost? Give me a break.

What defense have you when Serbs put forward the truth about KLA murdering not only the Serbs but also the Albanians who didn't go along with the terror?
What about organ trafficking?

What about expulsion of the Serbs and all others who are not Albanian or KLA friendly?

How are you going to explain all those destroyed churches and monasteries? How are you going to explain why Serbs have to live behind barbed wire in some areas and Albanians don't. Why are Serbian people escorted by NATO to schools and places of worship?

Serbia has a lot of material to present too. The problem for you is that Serbia will have the truth. More people are aware of what has gone on and there is a huge amount of material out there to counter your propaganda.

Bottom line, if the decision of ICJ is not important as I have read hear many times, why even bother showing up?
Looks like is it very important.

Gary T.

pre 15 godina

What ever you do. kosovo UDI has no legality coz there is no agreement with Belgrade about your so called independence. and the absence of UNSC resolution

EA

pre 15 godina

"....this stillborn puppet is simply the result of albanian terrorist-attacks on policemen, on serbian and albanian citizens of Serbia, and even on innocent children drinking hot chocolate in cafe´s.

Jovan,

You "touched" our hearts with you above lies. Just wait and see! The lies and misleadings do not work anymore. The Court will have the facts about Kosova history/war very clearly in tapes, documents, archives etc and etc and there will be no room to hide. You will be very cleared about the political role of KLA and the role of Serbian state in the conflict. As you might know the Court opinion is not legally binding and by them many more countries will recognise Kosova as an independent country. There is no return back to Serbia Jovan.

Ajsel

pre 15 godina

Serbia has a lot of material to present too. The problem for you is that Serbia will have the truth. More people are aware of what has gone on and there is a huge amount of material out there to counter your propaganda.
Peggy we have as well lots of material to present to.In 1989 if some of you can remember poisoning the children in school I know it because I was there this is only one of the materials and there is more trust me.
Oh we are not afraid to defend ourselves because we are not the guilty ones and we have enough proof for what the serbian police and army did to our people and to our homes.Ok if you say albanians were terorists but I really dont understand why did they burn our homes,why did they close our schools our university please give us a break for once and accept what you've done was wrong and you can not make 2 milion people live under serbian rule again kosova independence is done deal there is no turning back.

Pavaresi

pre 15 godina

Peggy,
your post smacks of desperation because you know what Kosova will present and independence is the only way fr Kosovars to live in peace and with the rights guaranteed by the international law. You cannot treat people like you want because you think you 'own' the land.

Not just Milosevic but since 1878 when Albanians were massacred and brutally thrown out of Nis. The 1912 'liberation,' 1918, the colonizations, the expulsion of Albanians to Turkey, Rankovic, Slobodan massacres and the autonomy reversal, and the attitudes of Serbs /Serb officials against the 'shiptar invaders.'

What you say that Albanians did are irrelevant, what Serbs did was state sponsored, and that is the key. if a Serb does something to me, I have no case, but if the Government tells him to do so, then it's different. Will you stop with the organ trading lies? You only lose (more) credibility.

Didn't Serbs vote for the Radical Party as late as 2008? Check to see what their leader, Seselj, said about the Albanians (and Croats, and Slovenians, and ...)

EA

pre 15 godina

"...if the decision of ICJ is not important as I have read hear many times, why even bother showing up?
Looks like is it very important. "

Peggy,

To be honest the proceedings towards ICJ would be a waste of time and is purely for Serbia's internal politics. Serbia was within its right to apply for an opinion of the ICJ. As far as I am aware the UN never has rejected any application from a UN member state to ask Court's opinion.
The Court proceedings may delay recognition by some countries that are reluctant. Of course Kosova will put its case forward and very very strongly believe me. Historical/political FACTS will be looked very closely and I am preatty sure that Serbia will be disappointed with the Courts OPINION which as you might know it is not legally binding. The OPINION will be referred to the past actions and not future events.

roberto

pre 15 godina

Yes, this court case ought to be very interesting, when all of the facts come out, and many of them are very, very ugly indeed. milosevic was just one point in this history of crimes and repression, and the more you read and learn, the worse it gets.

I am glad that one of the posters brought up about the "alleged" mass poisonings of ethnic albanian schoolchildren, which, as i understand it, took place not in 1989, but shortly after, in the spring of 1990 (an honest oversight.) we have a chapter in our (upcoming) book devoted to it. we have interviewed a number of persons about the case: human rights advocates, doctors, and victims, as well as gone thru much of the literature. of course the other side claimed that the kids were all "acting" or suffering from some sort of mass hysteria, but if there was "hysteria" it was based on a very real toxic substance. at the time, the schoolchildren had just been segregated. anyway, i hope even more info comes out at the trial.

and so much else, but i have no time here.

this is why i have said: "bump in the road." in reality, as happens sometimes in life, the ICJ case provides us an opportunity, and in some ways, our day in court.

carry on...

thank you.

roberto

sunny

pre 15 godina

the albanians also have a history in kosovo not only serbs some how you all forget that and just as kosovo was given to serbia it has been given back to the people it belongs to including kosovo serbs. no matter how politicians and people twist perceptions or propogandists.

Funcakes

pre 15 godina

The reason why Kosovo will win is pretty simple.

The part that says Kosovo is part of Yugoslavia only appears in the PREAMBLE of RESOLUTION 1244.

Preambles of UN resolutions are legally non-binding.

Case closed.

kufr

pre 15 godina

Well according to this text it is very clear that it is not Kosovo that is preparing it's defense, but the Albanians. Kosovo has done nothing wrong, it is the Albanians who has declared independence against the rules of international law.

I think it's good they are preparing their defense. That way they can't say afterwards they didn't defend themselves.

Peggy

pre 15 godina

Judging by the Albanian reaction I have certainly hit a nerve. Now whose posts smack of desperation?

You can repeat the same mantra a million times and won't do any good. The law is on Serbia's side and you know it. Why else would the US vote against at the GA?
Repeating the same old worn out propaganda is not going to work in court. The court deals with facts and truth, not propaganda.

I don't feel any desperation at all and cannot see why I would be acused of that. All I did was put forward a few questions which none of you have managed to answer. All you've done is go on the attack.
Yep, you are still using he same tactic. Offense is the best defense. Attack all you want but in court you will be disarmed.

Niall O'Doherty

pre 15 godina

Ethnic cleansing of non Albanians, 300,000 of them since 1999 not to mention the campaign of intimidation and terror before that. Ethnic minorities living in ghettos surrounded by barbed wire and KFOR troops, churches destroyed and schools belonging to non Albanians torn down for 'planning violations', its gonna be a hoot.

Dragan, Toronto

pre 15 godina

Some guy was complaining on this post about a few items but forgot to mention 1998. The arrival of observers, who set up markers/targets almost 6 months before the bombing. Workers of clandestine activities aimed at destabilizing a sovereign country, under questionable auspices.Alot of illegal acts were formented on Yugoslavia and Serbia with the ultimate aim of dismembering it to meet their agendas. The UDI was a classic example of an illegal act. The plan drawn by Ahtisarri was one-sided. AT least present a plan that is acceptable to both sides before passing, before rewarding one side only. Then using pressure to coerce in many ways foreign nations that don't agree with international law being broken with threats, intimidation etc. Thats all gonna change soon, as the international balance of power has shifted to a multi-polar world, following the failed fiasco of one empire to rule the world in multi-sphere of interests.

Dragan, Toronto

pre 15 godina

Pleurat,

Serbians aspire to join the European Union too one day, however as a unitary state, indivisible, sovereign and independent, within its borders. That is the Serbia that wants to join the E.U., not a rump, decapitated and humiliated parcel.

pss

pre 15 godina

"Court is always a gamble and further rambling, about who will win is baseless. Better predict the future based on what is in the bottom of your morning coffee"
Ataman

I do not think I have ever read a more intelligent statement in B92.

Albo_Canada

pre 15 godina

You know what ICJ is on Kosova behalf?, it's actually just a piece of paper that will be read at the UN and it's not a bill(proposal) that they(UN members) have to vote on. It's only a thought if I may say. Nothing to worry about, nothing at all but yeah when it comes to Kosova joining EU and North Atlantic integrations this thing might stand on it's way. However my opinion is that at same year Kosova and Serbia will join EU, but again I say it Kosovo might go in faster because Serbia is politically attacking and causing unrest in Montenegro and northern Kosova. ICJ won't take long to make that formal document and/or speech, why is that? it's becasue all neighbouring countries have recognised Kosova as independent Country. It seems that only Serbia disagrees with the real life in Kosova. Montenegro and Macedonia have already asked authorities to establish diplomatic relationships with Prishtina. I hope I'm wrong but this is truth and I'm not saying because I like it but because too many EU and world countries are saying so. Anyways whatever happens next one thing we know that once the Ballkan countries go into EU then there is no border between all of us. If you think differently please let me know. Have a good night everyone.

Nehat

pre 15 godina

Serbia has won, admirably however this does not pose any threat as you all saw with Macedonia and Montenegro. Your only chance now is to win the icj ruling, and that in my opinion will never happen. It's a lost cause, and to prove you all full air! i will copy every comment made today and then post it up on this same site when you lose the ruling.

Ataman

pre 15 godina

YOU did!
No, YOU did!
ME? Not me, it's YOU!

and so on.

I am tired of that.

1) EVERYONE DID
2) If I am a judge I don't care less, did Albanians murder 2 million Serbs 200 years ago or Serbs did it 100 years ago. I know precisely, in ethnic issues there is no 100% victim and no 100% villain. I don't care about the rest. I will take the paperwork from Ms. Citaku and from Mr. Jeremic and see what happened after 1999.

Sorry to by cynical - the judges will try to simplify the entire thing to maximum. Maybe they will look at the Dayton, certainly at Ramboullet (including the secret protocol and the "humanitarian bombing" legality) and 1244 and... whatever they will decide. Most likely what would weigh, did anyone "trick" the other side into some agreement under force and blackmail - which was later circumvented or not.

I will push all humanitarian issues to other courts like Hague or so. I am a bureaucrat, not historian, not interested, was it 3 million years ago a Serbian monkey who climbed down the tree first or Albanian. Not my desk.

If I am Albanian: if everything was in spirit of UN practice with Ramboullet and it's secret protocol, later the "bombing" and if there was no circumvention of 1244: I would be very confident, I have a rock-solid case and Serbia's resolution will be thrown out.

If I am Serbian: the more things are fishy with above, the more confident I would be.

Regardless, what I think, there likely will be judges who will side with Ms. Citaku. Having a lady to present the case for Albanians is a very smart move. Serbs should assume, she is well-prepared and make no mistake presenting their case. No whining and no finger-pointing.

Court is always a gamble and further rambling, who will win is baseless. Better predict the future based on what is on the bottom of your morning coffee.

pleurat

pre 15 godina

Dragan; (Alot of illegal acts were formented on Yugoslavia and Serbia with the ultimate aim of dismembering it to meet their agendas) Very true,and if i may ad it has turned out to be a very popular agenda that is called EUROPEAN UNION,that Serbia hopes to join sometime in the future.It was and is an agenda of free nations to live in peace and prosperity.A very diferent agenda from Serbia.Wouldnt you agree?

Mr. X

pre 15 godina

Well the end result will be the same on this ICJ ruling. It will state:
"Kosovo is a unique case, therefore it was according to the International Law"
Anyway, thank you United Arab Emirates for becoming the 51st state to recognize Kosovo reality. Its about time.

Olli

pre 15 godina

Vlora Citaku says:

there is no need to fear the ICJ ruling since "all political, historical and legal arguments are on our [Kosovo Albanian's] side".

There's one plain and clear proof that the case isn't at all as Mrs. Citaku falsely claims: the need to repeatedly call Kosovo independence as a special case, unique, sui generis.

Otherwise I must confess you of one of my sincerest thoughts, conceived by 25 years of Balkan experience: Most of Serbs, as most of Kosovo Albanians, don't have balls, righteousness and wisdom to see the filth and dirt in their own corners.

How long can they defend themselves saying that it is only human...?

No, no, no,... I'm not expecting armies of saints and angels.