FM Vuk Jeremić believes that the adoption of Serbia's resolution in the General Assembly constitutes a victory “not just for Serbia, but international law“.
Leonidas, are you talking about Greece being bankrupt? They have some 120% of the GDP in debt, their pensions are waaaaaaay underfunded and the GDP includes even illegal activity.
An arms race with Turkey will do that to your budget
(Dashnori i Ceces, 9 October 2008 16:23)
If Greece is bankrupt why all the Albanians are moving to Greece by any means? More than 30% of Albanian GDP comes fro remmitances from Greece.
We still have by multiples the largest per capita,smallest rate of inflation,highest growth in the Balkans and the largest merchant fleet in the world.
Last year alone, more than 50
billion euros were spent on new shipping orders and total
mercant capital employed in other activities amounted to
nearly $500 billion.
Concern yourself with the Albanian problems and leve the Greeks alone.
Both Montenegro and Macedonia are fully aware how foolish not to mention dangerous it would be to recognize Kosovo now, especially after the USA and UK suffered such a humiliating defeat to Serbia yesterday at the UN.
Serbia will not react to Either Montenegro or Macedonia like they did with Croatia and Slovenia if they decide to recognize Kosovo. And the USA and UK are near bankrupt, so their influence is not what it use to be and won't be at least for 5 or 6 years maybe longer in the US case is McCain wins.
What happende B92. No more news nor comments since 19:00. You cannot hide it forever. Better say it. Montenegro has recognised Kosovo as an indipendent country.
Well, it looks as if Kosovo's independence is perhaps not as real in European circles as has been presented:
http://www.eubusiness.com/news-eu/1223565422.54
As Rehn states, "Now we will have to wait for the ICJ to consider its position...In the meantime, the best medicine for Kosovo to move forward is indeed to go forward with patience, [as such moves would] enhance Kosovo's credibility in the eyes of the whole European Union and the international community."
Wait for what? Surely, if independence is irreversible then there is nothing to wait for. Likewise, why is there any need to enhance credibility if Kosovo is a fully equally member of the international community. The underlying intent of the statement is clear. If the ICJ rules against, then the EU will be put in a very difficult position. It is almost certain that most members will decide to respect that ruling, regardless of whether it is binding or not. To not do so would undermine the authority of the Court. They can argue that they needed to bypass the Security Council because of Russia, but they can't do the same with the ICJ. If they do then they are admitting that the UN system is defunct. In the meantime, the best that Kosovo can do is to try to act like a state in the hope that this might help them gain some more recognitions, or strengthen their position in future talks with Belgrade.
Kosovo's 'independence' doesn't look quite as certain in European circles as it did a couple of days ago.
You write: "EU just gave us another 122.7 million Euros, delivered by Rhen himself. This might actually be better for us: EU doesn't Kosova to react [?] so they will invest and pressure more countries to recognize."
The word "invest" means:
1. expend money with the expectation of achieving a profit or material result by putting it into financial schemes, shares, or property, or by using it to develop a commercial venture;
2. devote time, effort, or energy to a particular undertaking with the expectation of a worthwhile result.
Therefore it's better to avoid the use of "invest" and continue using the word "give". Unless you openly call us to invest in your tribalism. It is booming.
"The underlying intent of the statement is clear. If the ICJ rules against, then the EU will be put in a very difficult position. It is almost certain that most members will decide to respect that ruling, regardless of whether it is binding or not. "
Keep splitting hairs. They want to revers it, that's why Montenegro and Macedonia were almost forced to speed it up by EU.
I saw on a UN page who voted what. Those in favor consist of aprox 94% of world population! And then there were also some abscent! Also, some of those who abstained is not either for or against! Whos your daddy now! Go for it Serbia. You are halfway to goal !!
(DiplomatA3, 9 October 2008 10:37)
Diplomat A3: you are doing some sort of qualitative assessment of the countries that voted the Serbian resolution- go for it do it you are only halfway to goal!
Do a proper assessment- political and social organisation could be important elements don't you think???
P.S. Dear Serbs we are going to the court NOT that the court has borght her verdict. ICJ will have to find a good explanation of the facts that broght to teh declaration of independece, that is why STATE organised ethnic cleansing of Kosovars and the DESTRUCTION of their documents in teh border by apparently their same authorities happened. NOT AN EASY TASK.
P.P.S. if there are indications that the verdict would not be utterly clear on the side of the freedom of Kosovras- Albanian should immediately integrate Kosova in her borders.
So what's this I hear about Slovakia and Romania denying Kosovo passport recognition? Just as I suspected, Thaci was making up stories but we all know that Disneyland is full of story making. Just listen to Thaci, Sejdiu and Feith and all is clear. "100 recognitions in first month", "EULEX will be deployed in August", "Kosovo is independent", "Skyscraper in Pristina", "Third wave of recognitions in August", blah blah and blah.
I don't even trust this so-called Serbian government or its toothless initiative but they did a pretty good job at exposing the dismal support the US really has - Albania and a few arm twisted micro-statelets seems to be about it.
I doubt very much that the independence movement would have progressed even to this dismal level had Kostunica had his way. Oh, but wait, the bankrupt G7 have recognised Kosovo so there must be some hope right?
I take it for granted that the ICJ will take on the case, and mull over it for quite a long time, with delays caused by say the USA and many EU member states. How long? 1 year? 2 years?
In the mean time, will the Kosovo issue still be an active and open debating point in Serbia and the Serbia parliament, or will be quietly(?) pushed back on the daily agenda, until it becomes a forgotten and moot point?
Who will be the winners, and who will be the losers, if the Kosovo UDI disappears from the political agenda in Serbia?
Will the winners be the people that wants to move Serbian into EU, and the losers be the radicals that can only gain by having Kosovo in the headlines every week?
let's look at it this way: Two thirds of UN members did not vote for Serbia.
Aleks, all bets aren't off. NATO will stay in Kosova until its safe (luckily Kosova is in Europe and China, Russia and all are frozen out by NATO) and EU just gave us another 122.7 million Euros, delivered by Rhen himself. This might actually be better for us: EU doesn't Kosova to react so they will invest and pressure more countries to recognize.
You know what the worst thing about this is? The most vocal critics and opponents of Serbia's GA initiative were so-called defenders of interational freedoms and democracy. The fact that the UK and the US felt the need to state this was "unecessary", "unhelpful", and "irrelevant" solidifies my feelings that these have been the same powers that all along have been pushing for this illegal land grab, and have been the biggest contributors to circumventing international law.
I'm not surprised by Sejdiu's statements, but I don't think much of Sejdiu.
But reading that the countries that voted against the resolution were the US Albania, Nauru, Palau, the Marshall Islands and Micronesia, shows that aside from Albania (which was not surprising), the only countries that were persuaded to vote "No" were US dependenies. Gee, I wonder where those decisions came from?
It's so pathetic to see the so-called democracies of the world worm their way through this. For me, it's just another example of why I am so ashamed of my country's foreign policies.
Now for some fun. Have you noticed how often numerous US officials have used the word 'irreversible' in regard to Kosovo's 'independence'???
If the US and such countries are so confident of their decisions and the roles they have played in the region, then their language tells a different story. They are seriously worried and are thus playing to their Albanian allies.
This is backed up by the British measure to torpedo the Serb initiative. It smacks of desperation, the British most of all wishing to maintain their 'credibility' as upholders of international law and justice, despite their butchery and indirect actions that lead to the deaths of tens of millions of their subjects during the British Empire.
I think the failure of Albanian allied states to sway the UN shows how far the influence of the West has fallen globally (I won't even mention how 'impressed' the rest of the world is with US financial 'expertise').
It really matters less and less whether the US support Albania (sorry, 'Kosovo'). Power is heading east - that is why the US is building/up a ring of super bases there (Guam, Diego Garcia etc.).
So, the 'irreversible' Kosovo independence vasectomy is less than sure.
"A financially bankrupt country that has lost its relevance since the end of the first world is still deluding itself that it's a world power."
Leonidas, are you talking about Greece being bankrupt? They have some 120% of the GDP in debt, their pensions are waaaaaaay underfunded and the GDP includes even illegal activity.
An arms race with Turkey will do that to your budget
Thank you B92 for reporting on these stories and allowing people to voice their opinions. It's ironic that this media outlet is more democratic then one of the major media outlets in the world (CNN). Not sure if many people realize this but CNN has not even mentioned the resolution which was passed at the UN yesterday!! Shame, shame CNN. I feel sorry for the American people and I don't blame them for not being informed on the important issues that are happening around the world. Once again, thank you B92.
Great victory for Serbian diplomacy,at the same time i wana thank Portugal for the support were it really matters.Not that the UN does not matter ,but is some individual countries that try and surpress Kosovo Independence.Kosovo is free and there is nothing that Russia can do.
This voting in UN means nothing because Kosovo now is an indipendent state
(Ina, 9 October 2008 14:31)
Ina, this voting does mean a lot but it's affect on Kosovo is indirect only.
The real loser is bush and of course Kosovo's "UCK-in-charge" warlords.
Bush is morally and economically kaput, warlords have to go and give place to intellectuals and professionals in Pristina. Because of that, it was an excellent news. It is by no means Albanian (as nation) defeat. Bush and warlords got the boot, that's it.
There is nothing can stop Kosova towards its state proegress, so serb resulotion just expedited Kosova recoginition process, you will see BOOM a bunch of countries will recognize Kosova indepedence.
This voting in UN means nothing because Kosovo now is an indipendent state. Even in Serbia, people already know and have accepted the idea that Kosovo is no more part of Serbia as it has never been. Ina from Tirana.
" The countries that voted against the resolution were the U.S., Albania, Nauru, Palau, the Marshall Islands and Micronesia."
I think this does not need further explanation.
one thing can´t be clearer: this is a united states project, and these "states" palau, nauru, micronesia ... our dear friends here will certainly be chanting about these island-states being completely independent - just as independent as the stillborn puppet entity...
time works for Serbia, and all those ( rather weak ) comments accusing Serbia of wanting to get rid of the Albanians become more and more ridiculous by the day.
I knew from the beginning that the Serbian initiative is politically motivated,(and not just asking for opinion from ICJ)the British knew that,that's why Brit's behaved the way they did, nobody knows the Serbs better than Brits,and Albanians to my Serbian friends there is your answer, why the Brit's behaved the way they did.I am amazed how easy some of you are to please,don't bring your hopes up believe me nothing has changed and nothing will change my dears.Thanks to Montenegro,and FYRO-Macedonia in advance for preparing to recognise Kosova.Ta
Jeremic won,but it is not the triumph for the international law, it is simply for the Serbia's leaders who will not have to fight for Kosovo or they would never accept the reallity of Kosovo otherwise they will not be in power.
Now is up to ICJ,and ICJ will consider all stories(till 1989 Kosovo had right like all the Yugoslav republics but Milosevic by force changed it) like oppression,cleansing,killings,etc.
77 in favor and only 6 against. note that US company includes micro islands in the pacific where US has influence and ALbania understandably. lets say 50% of the 74 abstentions and 28 absent are divided so final count is 128 is PRO and 57 AGAINST. so thats in fact OVERWHELMING NUMBER RESPECTS INTERNATIONAL LAW. THIS IS GREAT FOR THE WORLD.
strong opposition from the colonialists in the west.
(Serb Allay, 9 October 2008 11:14)
I would call it (counting the vote and in particular in my shock over the role British did play) as utterly pathetic opposition.
"colonialists in the west" is a stereotype and even if it wold be fully correct (it's not), for political reasons I would not use it. Sounds like a phrase from a stalinist propaganda movie and I am allergic to that, sorry.
The countries that voted against the resolution were the U.S., Albania, Nauru, Palau, the Marshall Islands and Micronesia.
--
Oh my, there you have it my dear Albanian friends. Your true club consists of the bankrupt US (as your master), Albania and a few micro-states.
Without UN support, all I can say is RIP Kosovo independence. It never even got to see the light of day.
It is time the Albanians started to learn something about the law and to stop working in illegal ways. That will be the first step to integrating with the true international community.
My delegation is disappointed that our Serbian colleagues have refused to find a common means of moving forward. They’ve decided to present this resolution via the UN General Assembly without the slightest debate. It’s very sad that Serbia has chosen that course,” Sawyers said.
The outlaw country that has screwed the world many times
over is back to its usual tricks.
You look at the state of Africa,Middle East and Asia and you see that mess the UK left has affected generations for many years.
A financially bankrupt country that has lost its relevance since the end of the first world is still deluding itself that it's a world power.
Serbia should not water down its pursuit for ICJ ruling in exchange for the EU carrot
sometime in the distant future.
I agree with Jeremic that the UN decision yesterday is not just about Serbia but it's about international Law and whether countries are obliged to adhere by it.
Mr. John Sawers, you cannot correct injustice by committing another injustice. Milosevic is dead!! the whole serbian nation should not be punished by taking away their precious kosovo away from them. The kosovo UDI is illegal and violates international law whether you agree or not. and will set as an "example" to other nations with separatist problems.
Vuk,
Congratulation! Serbia has surpassed this test even with strong opposition from the colonialists in the west.
Sawers we are all surprised that you express surprise. Now you ask for negotiations, when you country has always refused all negotiation and pursued the way of the iron fist. Say now, when your country bombed Serbia, was that negotiated? Have you ever contributed back any reconstruction effort?
Well Mr Sawers, Serbia has since day 1 been willing to find a commons ground, much more often then the K-albanian (aka USA & co) side has.
"More than autonomy less than independence" wasn't good enough for you Mr Sawers? How about the countless number of other resolutions proposed by Serbia?
Sounds like the U.K. & co are being counter-productive and not helpful in the 'final' settlement of KiM. Simply bullying countries into recognizing this illegal declaration of independence will not be enough!!!
Mister Jeremic, you have not won anything. The only thing you have achieved is to give Kosovo opportunity to get its independence approved by the UN.
Kosovo's independence cannot by reversed by any means. Independence is reality and will NEVER be undone. It is better for Serbia to begin to accept this; otherwise you will continue to live in denial.
I saw on a UN page who voted what. Those in favor consist of aprox 94% of world population! And then there were also some abscent! Also, some of those who abstained is not either for or against! Whos your daddy now! Go for it Serbia. You are halfway to goal !!
"The countries that voted against the resolution were the U.S., Albania, Nauru, Palau, the Marshall Islands and Micronesia. "
Interesting - not even Turkey. Nauru, Palau, Marshall Islands, Micronesia historically are/were essentially U.S. territories, even if UN members today. Also Liberia can be regarded the same way.
That means: who voted against, are Albania (perfectly understand) and USA.
British reaction was the most shocking for me: "we throw in a last minute motion to torpedo Serbia's initiative, it goes thrown out, than we declare our opposition to the Serbia's initiative verbally - and abstain in protest".
This Serb engagement itself is proof that Serbia can never play any rolle in Kosovo. It is driven by hate and racism toward Albanians. Systematicaly rights of Albanians are undermined, conform to Serb ideology that those are aliens who keep Kosovo "occupied".
Since Serbia failed to physically erode Albanians from Kosovo, they now are eager to keep any opportunity to do so in future, when they gain power again. It is clear, Serbias long term ambition is to keep Kosovo free of Albanians.
My delegation is disappointed that our Serbian colleagues have refused to find a common means of moving forward. They’ve decided to present this resolution via the UN General Assembly without the slightest debate. It’s very sad that Serbia has chosen that course,” Sawyers said.
The outlaw country that has screwed the world many times
over is back to its usual tricks.
You look at the state of Africa,Middle East and Asia and you see that mess the UK left has affected generations for many years.
A financially bankrupt country that has lost its relevance since the end of the first world is still deluding itself that it's a world power.
Serbia should not water down its pursuit for ICJ ruling in exchange for the EU carrot
sometime in the distant future.
I agree with Jeremic that the UN decision yesterday is not just about Serbia but it's about international Law and whether countries are obliged to adhere by it.
The countries that voted against the resolution were the U.S., Albania, Nauru, Palau, the Marshall Islands and Micronesia.
--
Oh my, there you have it my dear Albanian friends. Your true club consists of the bankrupt US (as your master), Albania and a few micro-states.
Without UN support, all I can say is RIP Kosovo independence. It never even got to see the light of day.
It is time the Albanians started to learn something about the law and to stop working in illegal ways. That will be the first step to integrating with the true international community.
"The countries that voted against the resolution were the U.S., Albania, Nauru, Palau, the Marshall Islands and Micronesia. "
Interesting - not even Turkey. Nauru, Palau, Marshall Islands, Micronesia historically are/were essentially U.S. territories, even if UN members today. Also Liberia can be regarded the same way.
That means: who voted against, are Albania (perfectly understand) and USA.
British reaction was the most shocking for me: "we throw in a last minute motion to torpedo Serbia's initiative, it goes thrown out, than we declare our opposition to the Serbia's initiative verbally - and abstain in protest".
Sawers we are all surprised that you express surprise. Now you ask for negotiations, when you country has always refused all negotiation and pursued the way of the iron fist. Say now, when your country bombed Serbia, was that negotiated? Have you ever contributed back any reconstruction effort?
Well Mr Sawers, Serbia has since day 1 been willing to find a commons ground, much more often then the K-albanian (aka USA & co) side has.
"More than autonomy less than independence" wasn't good enough for you Mr Sawers? How about the countless number of other resolutions proposed by Serbia?
Sounds like the U.K. & co are being counter-productive and not helpful in the 'final' settlement of KiM. Simply bullying countries into recognizing this illegal declaration of independence will not be enough!!!
Mr. John Sawers, you cannot correct injustice by committing another injustice. Milosevic is dead!! the whole serbian nation should not be punished by taking away their precious kosovo away from them. The kosovo UDI is illegal and violates international law whether you agree or not. and will set as an "example" to other nations with separatist problems.
Vuk,
Congratulation! Serbia has surpassed this test even with strong opposition from the colonialists in the west.
I saw on a UN page who voted what. Those in favor consist of aprox 94% of world population! And then there were also some abscent! Also, some of those who abstained is not either for or against! Whos your daddy now! Go for it Serbia. You are halfway to goal !!
77 in favor and only 6 against. note that US company includes micro islands in the pacific where US has influence and ALbania understandably. lets say 50% of the 74 abstentions and 28 absent are divided so final count is 128 is PRO and 57 AGAINST. so thats in fact OVERWHELMING NUMBER RESPECTS INTERNATIONAL LAW. THIS IS GREAT FOR THE WORLD.
" The countries that voted against the resolution were the U.S., Albania, Nauru, Palau, the Marshall Islands and Micronesia."
I think this does not need further explanation.
one thing can´t be clearer: this is a united states project, and these "states" palau, nauru, micronesia ... our dear friends here will certainly be chanting about these island-states being completely independent - just as independent as the stillborn puppet entity...
time works for Serbia, and all those ( rather weak ) comments accusing Serbia of wanting to get rid of the Albanians become more and more ridiculous by the day.
Mister Jeremic, you have not won anything. The only thing you have achieved is to give Kosovo opportunity to get its independence approved by the UN.
Kosovo's independence cannot by reversed by any means. Independence is reality and will NEVER be undone. It is better for Serbia to begin to accept this; otherwise you will continue to live in denial.
You know what the worst thing about this is? The most vocal critics and opponents of Serbia's GA initiative were so-called defenders of interational freedoms and democracy. The fact that the UK and the US felt the need to state this was "unecessary", "unhelpful", and "irrelevant" solidifies my feelings that these have been the same powers that all along have been pushing for this illegal land grab, and have been the biggest contributors to circumventing international law.
I'm not surprised by Sejdiu's statements, but I don't think much of Sejdiu.
But reading that the countries that voted against the resolution were the US Albania, Nauru, Palau, the Marshall Islands and Micronesia, shows that aside from Albania (which was not surprising), the only countries that were persuaded to vote "No" were US dependenies. Gee, I wonder where those decisions came from?
It's so pathetic to see the so-called democracies of the world worm their way through this. For me, it's just another example of why I am so ashamed of my country's foreign policies.
Now for some fun. Have you noticed how often numerous US officials have used the word 'irreversible' in regard to Kosovo's 'independence'???
If the US and such countries are so confident of their decisions and the roles they have played in the region, then their language tells a different story. They are seriously worried and are thus playing to their Albanian allies.
This is backed up by the British measure to torpedo the Serb initiative. It smacks of desperation, the British most of all wishing to maintain their 'credibility' as upholders of international law and justice, despite their butchery and indirect actions that lead to the deaths of tens of millions of their subjects during the British Empire.
I think the failure of Albanian allied states to sway the UN shows how far the influence of the West has fallen globally (I won't even mention how 'impressed' the rest of the world is with US financial 'expertise').
It really matters less and less whether the US support Albania (sorry, 'Kosovo'). Power is heading east - that is why the US is building/up a ring of super bases there (Guam, Diego Garcia etc.).
So, the 'irreversible' Kosovo independence vasectomy is less than sure.
Thank you B92 for reporting on these stories and allowing people to voice their opinions. It's ironic that this media outlet is more democratic then one of the major media outlets in the world (CNN). Not sure if many people realize this but CNN has not even mentioned the resolution which was passed at the UN yesterday!! Shame, shame CNN. I feel sorry for the American people and I don't blame them for not being informed on the important issues that are happening around the world. Once again, thank you B92.
This Serb engagement itself is proof that Serbia can never play any rolle in Kosovo. It is driven by hate and racism toward Albanians. Systematicaly rights of Albanians are undermined, conform to Serb ideology that those are aliens who keep Kosovo "occupied".
Since Serbia failed to physically erode Albanians from Kosovo, they now are eager to keep any opportunity to do so in future, when they gain power again. It is clear, Serbias long term ambition is to keep Kosovo free of Albanians.
This voting in UN means nothing because Kosovo now is an indipendent state. Even in Serbia, people already know and have accepted the idea that Kosovo is no more part of Serbia as it has never been. Ina from Tirana.
What happende B92. No more news nor comments since 19:00. You cannot hide it forever. Better say it. Montenegro has recognised Kosovo as an indipendent country.
Jeremic won,but it is not the triumph for the international law, it is simply for the Serbia's leaders who will not have to fight for Kosovo or they would never accept the reallity of Kosovo otherwise they will not be in power.
Now is up to ICJ,and ICJ will consider all stories(till 1989 Kosovo had right like all the Yugoslav republics but Milosevic by force changed it) like oppression,cleansing,killings,etc.
This voting in UN means nothing because Kosovo now is an indipendent state
(Ina, 9 October 2008 14:31)
Ina, this voting does mean a lot but it's affect on Kosovo is indirect only.
The real loser is bush and of course Kosovo's "UCK-in-charge" warlords.
Bush is morally and economically kaput, warlords have to go and give place to intellectuals and professionals in Pristina. Because of that, it was an excellent news. It is by no means Albanian (as nation) defeat. Bush and warlords got the boot, that's it.
let's look at it this way: Two thirds of UN members did not vote for Serbia.
Aleks, all bets aren't off. NATO will stay in Kosova until its safe (luckily Kosova is in Europe and China, Russia and all are frozen out by NATO) and EU just gave us another 122.7 million Euros, delivered by Rhen himself. This might actually be better for us: EU doesn't Kosova to react so they will invest and pressure more countries to recognize.
There is nothing can stop Kosova towards its state proegress, so serb resulotion just expedited Kosova recoginition process, you will see BOOM a bunch of countries will recognize Kosova indepedence.
"A financially bankrupt country that has lost its relevance since the end of the first world is still deluding itself that it's a world power."
Leonidas, are you talking about Greece being bankrupt? They have some 120% of the GDP in debt, their pensions are waaaaaaay underfunded and the GDP includes even illegal activity.
An arms race with Turkey will do that to your budget
So what's this I hear about Slovakia and Romania denying Kosovo passport recognition? Just as I suspected, Thaci was making up stories but we all know that Disneyland is full of story making. Just listen to Thaci, Sejdiu and Feith and all is clear. "100 recognitions in first month", "EULEX will be deployed in August", "Kosovo is independent", "Skyscraper in Pristina", "Third wave of recognitions in August", blah blah and blah.
I don't even trust this so-called Serbian government or its toothless initiative but they did a pretty good job at exposing the dismal support the US really has - Albania and a few arm twisted micro-statelets seems to be about it.
I doubt very much that the independence movement would have progressed even to this dismal level had Kostunica had his way. Oh, but wait, the bankrupt G7 have recognised Kosovo so there must be some hope right?
Leonidas, are you talking about Greece being bankrupt? They have some 120% of the GDP in debt, their pensions are waaaaaaay underfunded and the GDP includes even illegal activity.
An arms race with Turkey will do that to your budget
(Dashnori i Ceces, 9 October 2008 16:23)
If Greece is bankrupt why all the Albanians are moving to Greece by any means? More than 30% of Albanian GDP comes fro remmitances from Greece.
We still have by multiples the largest per capita,smallest rate of inflation,highest growth in the Balkans and the largest merchant fleet in the world.
Last year alone, more than 50
billion euros were spent on new shipping orders and total
mercant capital employed in other activities amounted to
nearly $500 billion.
Concern yourself with the Albanian problems and leve the Greeks alone.
Well, it looks as if Kosovo's independence is perhaps not as real in European circles as has been presented:
http://www.eubusiness.com/news-eu/1223565422.54
As Rehn states, "Now we will have to wait for the ICJ to consider its position...In the meantime, the best medicine for Kosovo to move forward is indeed to go forward with patience, [as such moves would] enhance Kosovo's credibility in the eyes of the whole European Union and the international community."
Wait for what? Surely, if independence is irreversible then there is nothing to wait for. Likewise, why is there any need to enhance credibility if Kosovo is a fully equally member of the international community. The underlying intent of the statement is clear. If the ICJ rules against, then the EU will be put in a very difficult position. It is almost certain that most members will decide to respect that ruling, regardless of whether it is binding or not. To not do so would undermine the authority of the Court. They can argue that they needed to bypass the Security Council because of Russia, but they can't do the same with the ICJ. If they do then they are admitting that the UN system is defunct. In the meantime, the best that Kosovo can do is to try to act like a state in the hope that this might help them gain some more recognitions, or strengthen their position in future talks with Belgrade.
Kosovo's 'independence' doesn't look quite as certain in European circles as it did a couple of days ago.
I knew from the beginning that the Serbian initiative is politically motivated,(and not just asking for opinion from ICJ)the British knew that,that's why Brit's behaved the way they did, nobody knows the Serbs better than Brits,and Albanians to my Serbian friends there is your answer, why the Brit's behaved the way they did.I am amazed how easy some of you are to please,don't bring your hopes up believe me nothing has changed and nothing will change my dears.Thanks to Montenegro,and FYRO-Macedonia in advance for preparing to recognise Kosova.Ta
I saw on a UN page who voted what. Those in favor consist of aprox 94% of world population! And then there were also some abscent! Also, some of those who abstained is not either for or against! Whos your daddy now! Go for it Serbia. You are halfway to goal !!
(DiplomatA3, 9 October 2008 10:37)
Diplomat A3: you are doing some sort of qualitative assessment of the countries that voted the Serbian resolution- go for it do it you are only halfway to goal!
Do a proper assessment- political and social organisation could be important elements don't you think???
P.S. Dear Serbs we are going to the court NOT that the court has borght her verdict. ICJ will have to find a good explanation of the facts that broght to teh declaration of independece, that is why STATE organised ethnic cleansing of Kosovars and the DESTRUCTION of their documents in teh border by apparently their same authorities happened. NOT AN EASY TASK.
P.P.S. if there are indications that the verdict would not be utterly clear on the side of the freedom of Kosovras- Albanian should immediately integrate Kosova in her borders.
I take it for granted that the ICJ will take on the case, and mull over it for quite a long time, with delays caused by say the USA and many EU member states. How long? 1 year? 2 years?
In the mean time, will the Kosovo issue still be an active and open debating point in Serbia and the Serbia parliament, or will be quietly(?) pushed back on the daily agenda, until it becomes a forgotten and moot point?
Who will be the winners, and who will be the losers, if the Kosovo UDI disappears from the political agenda in Serbia?
Will the winners be the people that wants to move Serbian into EU, and the losers be the radicals that can only gain by having Kosovo in the headlines every week?
"The underlying intent of the statement is clear. If the ICJ rules against, then the EU will be put in a very difficult position. It is almost certain that most members will decide to respect that ruling, regardless of whether it is binding or not. "
Keep splitting hairs. They want to revers it, that's why Montenegro and Macedonia were almost forced to speed it up by EU.
strong opposition from the colonialists in the west.
(Serb Allay, 9 October 2008 11:14)
I would call it (counting the vote and in particular in my shock over the role British did play) as utterly pathetic opposition.
"colonialists in the west" is a stereotype and even if it wold be fully correct (it's not), for political reasons I would not use it. Sounds like a phrase from a stalinist propaganda movie and I am allergic to that, sorry.
Great victory for Serbian diplomacy,at the same time i wana thank Portugal for the support were it really matters.Not that the UN does not matter ,but is some individual countries that try and surpress Kosovo Independence.Kosovo is free and there is nothing that Russia can do.
You write: "EU just gave us another 122.7 million Euros, delivered by Rhen himself. This might actually be better for us: EU doesn't Kosova to react [?] so they will invest and pressure more countries to recognize."
The word "invest" means:
1. expend money with the expectation of achieving a profit or material result by putting it into financial schemes, shares, or property, or by using it to develop a commercial venture;
2. devote time, effort, or energy to a particular undertaking with the expectation of a worthwhile result.
Therefore it's better to avoid the use of "invest" and continue using the word "give". Unless you openly call us to invest in your tribalism. It is booming.
Both Montenegro and Macedonia are fully aware how foolish not to mention dangerous it would be to recognize Kosovo now, especially after the USA and UK suffered such a humiliating defeat to Serbia yesterday at the UN.
Serbia will not react to Either Montenegro or Macedonia like they did with Croatia and Slovenia if they decide to recognize Kosovo. And the USA and UK are near bankrupt, so their influence is not what it use to be and won't be at least for 5 or 6 years maybe longer in the US case is McCain wins.
This Serb engagement itself is proof that Serbia can never play any rolle in Kosovo. It is driven by hate and racism toward Albanians. Systematicaly rights of Albanians are undermined, conform to Serb ideology that those are aliens who keep Kosovo "occupied".
Since Serbia failed to physically erode Albanians from Kosovo, they now are eager to keep any opportunity to do so in future, when they gain power again. It is clear, Serbias long term ambition is to keep Kosovo free of Albanians.
Mister Jeremic, you have not won anything. The only thing you have achieved is to give Kosovo opportunity to get its independence approved by the UN.
Kosovo's independence cannot by reversed by any means. Independence is reality and will NEVER be undone. It is better for Serbia to begin to accept this; otherwise you will continue to live in denial.
Jeremic won,but it is not the triumph for the international law, it is simply for the Serbia's leaders who will not have to fight for Kosovo or they would never accept the reallity of Kosovo otherwise they will not be in power.
Now is up to ICJ,and ICJ will consider all stories(till 1989 Kosovo had right like all the Yugoslav republics but Milosevic by force changed it) like oppression,cleansing,killings,etc.
I knew from the beginning that the Serbian initiative is politically motivated,(and not just asking for opinion from ICJ)the British knew that,that's why Brit's behaved the way they did, nobody knows the Serbs better than Brits,and Albanians to my Serbian friends there is your answer, why the Brit's behaved the way they did.I am amazed how easy some of you are to please,don't bring your hopes up believe me nothing has changed and nothing will change my dears.Thanks to Montenegro,and FYRO-Macedonia in advance for preparing to recognise Kosova.Ta
This voting in UN means nothing because Kosovo now is an indipendent state. Even in Serbia, people already know and have accepted the idea that Kosovo is no more part of Serbia as it has never been. Ina from Tirana.
Great victory for Serbian diplomacy,at the same time i wana thank Portugal for the support were it really matters.Not that the UN does not matter ,but is some individual countries that try and surpress Kosovo Independence.Kosovo is free and there is nothing that Russia can do.
There is nothing can stop Kosova towards its state proegress, so serb resulotion just expedited Kosova recoginition process, you will see BOOM a bunch of countries will recognize Kosova indepedence.
"A financially bankrupt country that has lost its relevance since the end of the first world is still deluding itself that it's a world power."
Leonidas, are you talking about Greece being bankrupt? They have some 120% of the GDP in debt, their pensions are waaaaaaay underfunded and the GDP includes even illegal activity.
An arms race with Turkey will do that to your budget
let's look at it this way: Two thirds of UN members did not vote for Serbia.
Aleks, all bets aren't off. NATO will stay in Kosova until its safe (luckily Kosova is in Europe and China, Russia and all are frozen out by NATO) and EU just gave us another 122.7 million Euros, delivered by Rhen himself. This might actually be better for us: EU doesn't Kosova to react so they will invest and pressure more countries to recognize.
"The underlying intent of the statement is clear. If the ICJ rules against, then the EU will be put in a very difficult position. It is almost certain that most members will decide to respect that ruling, regardless of whether it is binding or not. "
Keep splitting hairs. They want to revers it, that's why Montenegro and Macedonia were almost forced to speed it up by EU.
Both Montenegro and Macedonia are fully aware how foolish not to mention dangerous it would be to recognize Kosovo now, especially after the USA and UK suffered such a humiliating defeat to Serbia yesterday at the UN.
Serbia will not react to Either Montenegro or Macedonia like they did with Croatia and Slovenia if they decide to recognize Kosovo. And the USA and UK are near bankrupt, so their influence is not what it use to be and won't be at least for 5 or 6 years maybe longer in the US case is McCain wins.
Well Mr Sawers, Serbia has since day 1 been willing to find a commons ground, much more often then the K-albanian (aka USA & co) side has.
"More than autonomy less than independence" wasn't good enough for you Mr Sawers? How about the countless number of other resolutions proposed by Serbia?
Sounds like the U.K. & co are being counter-productive and not helpful in the 'final' settlement of KiM. Simply bullying countries into recognizing this illegal declaration of independence will not be enough!!!
The countries that voted against the resolution were the U.S., Albania, Nauru, Palau, the Marshall Islands and Micronesia.
--
Oh my, there you have it my dear Albanian friends. Your true club consists of the bankrupt US (as your master), Albania and a few micro-states.
Without UN support, all I can say is RIP Kosovo independence. It never even got to see the light of day.
It is time the Albanians started to learn something about the law and to stop working in illegal ways. That will be the first step to integrating with the true international community.
strong opposition from the colonialists in the west.
(Serb Allay, 9 October 2008 11:14)
I would call it (counting the vote and in particular in my shock over the role British did play) as utterly pathetic opposition.
"colonialists in the west" is a stereotype and even if it wold be fully correct (it's not), for political reasons I would not use it. Sounds like a phrase from a stalinist propaganda movie and I am allergic to that, sorry.
77 in favor and only 6 against. note that US company includes micro islands in the pacific where US has influence and ALbania understandably. lets say 50% of the 74 abstentions and 28 absent are divided so final count is 128 is PRO and 57 AGAINST. so thats in fact OVERWHELMING NUMBER RESPECTS INTERNATIONAL LAW. THIS IS GREAT FOR THE WORLD.
So what's this I hear about Slovakia and Romania denying Kosovo passport recognition? Just as I suspected, Thaci was making up stories but we all know that Disneyland is full of story making. Just listen to Thaci, Sejdiu and Feith and all is clear. "100 recognitions in first month", "EULEX will be deployed in August", "Kosovo is independent", "Skyscraper in Pristina", "Third wave of recognitions in August", blah blah and blah.
I don't even trust this so-called Serbian government or its toothless initiative but they did a pretty good job at exposing the dismal support the US really has - Albania and a few arm twisted micro-statelets seems to be about it.
I doubt very much that the independence movement would have progressed even to this dismal level had Kostunica had his way. Oh, but wait, the bankrupt G7 have recognised Kosovo so there must be some hope right?
Well, it looks as if Kosovo's independence is perhaps not as real in European circles as has been presented:
http://www.eubusiness.com/news-eu/1223565422.54
As Rehn states, "Now we will have to wait for the ICJ to consider its position...In the meantime, the best medicine for Kosovo to move forward is indeed to go forward with patience, [as such moves would] enhance Kosovo's credibility in the eyes of the whole European Union and the international community."
Wait for what? Surely, if independence is irreversible then there is nothing to wait for. Likewise, why is there any need to enhance credibility if Kosovo is a fully equally member of the international community. The underlying intent of the statement is clear. If the ICJ rules against, then the EU will be put in a very difficult position. It is almost certain that most members will decide to respect that ruling, regardless of whether it is binding or not. To not do so would undermine the authority of the Court. They can argue that they needed to bypass the Security Council because of Russia, but they can't do the same with the ICJ. If they do then they are admitting that the UN system is defunct. In the meantime, the best that Kosovo can do is to try to act like a state in the hope that this might help them gain some more recognitions, or strengthen their position in future talks with Belgrade.
Kosovo's 'independence' doesn't look quite as certain in European circles as it did a couple of days ago.
Leonidas, are you talking about Greece being bankrupt? They have some 120% of the GDP in debt, their pensions are waaaaaaay underfunded and the GDP includes even illegal activity.
An arms race with Turkey will do that to your budget
(Dashnori i Ceces, 9 October 2008 16:23)
If Greece is bankrupt why all the Albanians are moving to Greece by any means? More than 30% of Albanian GDP comes fro remmitances from Greece.
We still have by multiples the largest per capita,smallest rate of inflation,highest growth in the Balkans and the largest merchant fleet in the world.
Last year alone, more than 50
billion euros were spent on new shipping orders and total
mercant capital employed in other activities amounted to
nearly $500 billion.
Concern yourself with the Albanian problems and leve the Greeks alone.
"The countries that voted against the resolution were the U.S., Albania, Nauru, Palau, the Marshall Islands and Micronesia. "
Interesting - not even Turkey. Nauru, Palau, Marshall Islands, Micronesia historically are/were essentially U.S. territories, even if UN members today. Also Liberia can be regarded the same way.
That means: who voted against, are Albania (perfectly understand) and USA.
British reaction was the most shocking for me: "we throw in a last minute motion to torpedo Serbia's initiative, it goes thrown out, than we declare our opposition to the Serbia's initiative verbally - and abstain in protest".
I saw on a UN page who voted what. Those in favor consist of aprox 94% of world population! And then there were also some abscent! Also, some of those who abstained is not either for or against! Whos your daddy now! Go for it Serbia. You are halfway to goal !!
Mr. John Sawers, you cannot correct injustice by committing another injustice. Milosevic is dead!! the whole serbian nation should not be punished by taking away their precious kosovo away from them. The kosovo UDI is illegal and violates international law whether you agree or not. and will set as an "example" to other nations with separatist problems.
Vuk,
Congratulation! Serbia has surpassed this test even with strong opposition from the colonialists in the west.
My delegation is disappointed that our Serbian colleagues have refused to find a common means of moving forward. They’ve decided to present this resolution via the UN General Assembly without the slightest debate. It’s very sad that Serbia has chosen that course,” Sawyers said.
The outlaw country that has screwed the world many times
over is back to its usual tricks.
You look at the state of Africa,Middle East and Asia and you see that mess the UK left has affected generations for many years.
A financially bankrupt country that has lost its relevance since the end of the first world is still deluding itself that it's a world power.
Serbia should not water down its pursuit for ICJ ruling in exchange for the EU carrot
sometime in the distant future.
I agree with Jeremic that the UN decision yesterday is not just about Serbia but it's about international Law and whether countries are obliged to adhere by it.
Sawers we are all surprised that you express surprise. Now you ask for negotiations, when you country has always refused all negotiation and pursued the way of the iron fist. Say now, when your country bombed Serbia, was that negotiated? Have you ever contributed back any reconstruction effort?
" The countries that voted against the resolution were the U.S., Albania, Nauru, Palau, the Marshall Islands and Micronesia."
I think this does not need further explanation.
one thing can´t be clearer: this is a united states project, and these "states" palau, nauru, micronesia ... our dear friends here will certainly be chanting about these island-states being completely independent - just as independent as the stillborn puppet entity...
time works for Serbia, and all those ( rather weak ) comments accusing Serbia of wanting to get rid of the Albanians become more and more ridiculous by the day.
Thank you B92 for reporting on these stories and allowing people to voice their opinions. It's ironic that this media outlet is more democratic then one of the major media outlets in the world (CNN). Not sure if many people realize this but CNN has not even mentioned the resolution which was passed at the UN yesterday!! Shame, shame CNN. I feel sorry for the American people and I don't blame them for not being informed on the important issues that are happening around the world. Once again, thank you B92.
This voting in UN means nothing because Kosovo now is an indipendent state
(Ina, 9 October 2008 14:31)
Ina, this voting does mean a lot but it's affect on Kosovo is indirect only.
The real loser is bush and of course Kosovo's "UCK-in-charge" warlords.
Bush is morally and economically kaput, warlords have to go and give place to intellectuals and professionals in Pristina. Because of that, it was an excellent news. It is by no means Albanian (as nation) defeat. Bush and warlords got the boot, that's it.
You know what the worst thing about this is? The most vocal critics and opponents of Serbia's GA initiative were so-called defenders of interational freedoms and democracy. The fact that the UK and the US felt the need to state this was "unecessary", "unhelpful", and "irrelevant" solidifies my feelings that these have been the same powers that all along have been pushing for this illegal land grab, and have been the biggest contributors to circumventing international law.
I'm not surprised by Sejdiu's statements, but I don't think much of Sejdiu.
But reading that the countries that voted against the resolution were the US Albania, Nauru, Palau, the Marshall Islands and Micronesia, shows that aside from Albania (which was not surprising), the only countries that were persuaded to vote "No" were US dependenies. Gee, I wonder where those decisions came from?
It's so pathetic to see the so-called democracies of the world worm their way through this. For me, it's just another example of why I am so ashamed of my country's foreign policies.
Now for some fun. Have you noticed how often numerous US officials have used the word 'irreversible' in regard to Kosovo's 'independence'???
If the US and such countries are so confident of their decisions and the roles they have played in the region, then their language tells a different story. They are seriously worried and are thus playing to their Albanian allies.
This is backed up by the British measure to torpedo the Serb initiative. It smacks of desperation, the British most of all wishing to maintain their 'credibility' as upholders of international law and justice, despite their butchery and indirect actions that lead to the deaths of tens of millions of their subjects during the British Empire.
I think the failure of Albanian allied states to sway the UN shows how far the influence of the West has fallen globally (I won't even mention how 'impressed' the rest of the world is with US financial 'expertise').
It really matters less and less whether the US support Albania (sorry, 'Kosovo'). Power is heading east - that is why the US is building/up a ring of super bases there (Guam, Diego Garcia etc.).
So, the 'irreversible' Kosovo independence vasectomy is less than sure.
I saw on a UN page who voted what. Those in favor consist of aprox 94% of world population! And then there were also some abscent! Also, some of those who abstained is not either for or against! Whos your daddy now! Go for it Serbia. You are halfway to goal !!
(DiplomatA3, 9 October 2008 10:37)
Diplomat A3: you are doing some sort of qualitative assessment of the countries that voted the Serbian resolution- go for it do it you are only halfway to goal!
Do a proper assessment- political and social organisation could be important elements don't you think???
P.S. Dear Serbs we are going to the court NOT that the court has borght her verdict. ICJ will have to find a good explanation of the facts that broght to teh declaration of independece, that is why STATE organised ethnic cleansing of Kosovars and the DESTRUCTION of their documents in teh border by apparently their same authorities happened. NOT AN EASY TASK.
P.P.S. if there are indications that the verdict would not be utterly clear on the side of the freedom of Kosovras- Albanian should immediately integrate Kosova in her borders.
I take it for granted that the ICJ will take on the case, and mull over it for quite a long time, with delays caused by say the USA and many EU member states. How long? 1 year? 2 years?
In the mean time, will the Kosovo issue still be an active and open debating point in Serbia and the Serbia parliament, or will be quietly(?) pushed back on the daily agenda, until it becomes a forgotten and moot point?
Who will be the winners, and who will be the losers, if the Kosovo UDI disappears from the political agenda in Serbia?
Will the winners be the people that wants to move Serbian into EU, and the losers be the radicals that can only gain by having Kosovo in the headlines every week?
You write: "EU just gave us another 122.7 million Euros, delivered by Rhen himself. This might actually be better for us: EU doesn't Kosova to react [?] so they will invest and pressure more countries to recognize."
The word "invest" means:
1. expend money with the expectation of achieving a profit or material result by putting it into financial schemes, shares, or property, or by using it to develop a commercial venture;
2. devote time, effort, or energy to a particular undertaking with the expectation of a worthwhile result.
Therefore it's better to avoid the use of "invest" and continue using the word "give". Unless you openly call us to invest in your tribalism. It is booming.
What happende B92. No more news nor comments since 19:00. You cannot hide it forever. Better say it. Montenegro has recognised Kosovo as an indipendent country.
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