UN vote hailed in Belgrade as "victory"

B R A V O, great diplomatic victory!

...only democratic global institution, where even the countries such as the United States could not affect the stands of the countries which had voted for the Serbian resolution

Well, well the wheel is turning...and for the time being both US and UK have to face angry people back home. Furthermore, more and more countries are pointing the finger at both for being at the root of the current financial crisis! The boomerang is on it's way back...

I watched some of the vote on the UN site via webcast. For those interested, an incomplete list of those states voting in favor of allowing Serbia's resolution to go to the ICJ are:

Slovakia
Panama (noted all parties should give their views and this vote/ICJ ruling would not have an impact on whether it recognizes Kosovo's UDI)
Egypt
Spain
Greece
Cyprus
Indonesia
Cuba
South Africa (noted that while it certainly is true that 48 states have recognized Kosovo's UDI, 144 have not)
Comoras
Costa Rica
Iran
Algeria
Mexico
Peru (need to have all parties present thier case)
Argentina (came out very forcfully for Serbia in stating 1244 clearly establishes legal and political parameters of handling problem of situation of Kosovo minority within Serbia)
Norway (trusts will be hearing arguments from all sides including Kosovo's goverment)
El Salvador
Singapore (noted it supports some sort of autonomy of Kosovo within Serbia)
Iceland

Anincomplete list of those states who voted against allowing Serbia's resolution to go to the ICJ (which I saw):

US
Albania
Liberia (their vote was not counted in the 6 NOs b/c for some reason they had technical difficulty in voting)

Those states that abstained (which I saw):

France (disagreed w draft resolution and do not find this useful)
Turkey
UK
Canada (Kosovo should be given opportunity to present its case to the court)
Germany (Kosovo's arguments and points need to be heard)
Finland
Denmark (all parties should have access to present their case)
Switzerland

Again, obvioulsy not a complete list, but there you have it . . .

both US and UK
(The Swiss, 8 October 2008 22:45)

UK did not even vote - after their last minute motion was thrown away, they put the tail between the legs and cowardly walked away. Shows a great backbone... At least Albania and presumably Turkey were consistent.

Didn't I say, there are no "friends" among countries.

There was on line in that article that I think deserves to be repeated:

"I believe that the International Court of Justice will adopt an opinion in keeping with international law, which will reaffirm Serbia's stand that the unilateral declaration of Kosovo's independence was not in line with international law (...)"

It seems to me that a lot of people do not pay attention to the name "International Court of Justice", and instead reads it as "International Court of Law".

Justice != Law

Serbia might have had a chance if it was ICL, but not in ICJ.
--

"Jeremić reacts to the results of the vote (FoNet)"

Of course he racts, he is a good serb ( posteni srbin), he wants to bring Serbia in EU, and that is the only way , to show to serbs, that Independece of Kosova, is the real thing, it could not have be done differently.
By the way countrys still recognising Kosova, so that means UN vote for ICJ, does not have any effect, in the next UN Assambly will be the vote for accepting Kosova in UN.
Albaninas in Kosova waited for longer than a year , one more year does not mean anything, by the next October , Kosova will not have those trobles from Serbia anymore, who knows, Serbia might be in EU ( or not ) , and does not have any other choice than to recognise Kosova as state.

A complete list of the countries voted In favour of Serbian initiative at UN GA is bellow
( all BRIC countries!)
: Algeria, Angola, Antigua and Barbuda, Argentina, Azerbaijan, Belarus, Bolivia, Botswana, Brazil, Brunei Darussalam, Cambodia, Chile, China, Congo, Costa Rica, Cuba, Cyprus, Democratic People’s Republic of Korea, Democratic Republic of the Congo, Djibouti, Dominica, Dominican Republic, Egypt, El Salvador, Equatorial Guinea, Eritrea, Fiji, Greece, Guatemala, Guinea, Guyana, Honduras, Iceland, India, Indonesia, Iran, Jamaica, Kazakhstan, Kenya, Kyrgyzstan, Lesotho, Liechtenstein, Madagascar, Mauritius, Mexico, Montenegro, Myanmar, Namibia, Nicaragua, Niger, Nigeria, Norway, Panama, Papua New Guinea, Paraguay, Philippines, Romania, Russian Federation, Saint Vincent and the Grenadines, Serbia, Singapore, Slovakia, Solomon Islands, South Africa, Spain, Sri Lanka, Sudan, Suriname, Swaziland, Syria, Timor-Leste, United Republic of Tanzania, Uruguay, Uzbekistan, Viet Nam, Zambia, Zimbabwe.

Another couple of 'baby steps' taken & more good news for Serbia with the GA's decision to

ignore the UK's 'amendments' & pass Serbia's initiative to the ICJ.

Well done to Serbia & to Mr 'frequent-flyer' Jeremic - may you keep racking up those

'bonus-miles' on Serbia behalf.

Next stop the ICJ.


Jan Andersen, DK:
> Serbia might have had a chance if it was ICL, but not in ICJ.
Agree with you that Justice & Law are two different things. Unfortunately however, like every

other court, the ICJ deals with the latter.

"This non-binding character does not mean that advisory opinions are without legal effect,

because the legal reasoning embodied in them reflects the Court's authoritative views on

important issues of international law and, in arriving at them, the Court follows essentially

the same rules and procedures that govern its binding judgments delivered in contentious cases

submitted to it by sovereign states.

But keep "tilting at windmills' as the world needs idealists - even misguided ones ;)


Miles:
Liberia along with Central African Republic, Comoros, Guinea-Bissau, Sao Tome and Principe,

Somalia & Tajikistan haven't paid their membership dues & so had no voting privileges.

What kind of victory are we talking about, if may I ask?

Just taking a case in the court is a victory? Anyone could open a case in court. A rapist could open a case in court against his victim who broke the rapist nose while defending herself. Buy who would you think would win?

I must say Serbs who "hail this as a victory" are starting to suffer from low self-esteem. Frankly, it would have been unfair for Serbia not to be allowed to ask this opinion but keep in mind that while a ruling in favor of Serbia will change essentially nothing on the ground, the opposite will open UN door to Kosova. K-Albanians don't have to be bound to this ruling, after all they did not ask for it. However it would be very embarrassing for Jeremic and you Serbs commenting here to claim that ICJ is also politicized and a puppet of the West ( as Kate would claim) if it rules against Serbia's expectations.

One lesson that today's decision made clear for those who wants to see is:
"Not the whole world is out there to get Serbia and Kosova's independence is purely a logical outcome of events that followed Serbia's own misdeeds and abuse of human rights in Kosova.

The bottom line is that in every institution, where Russia doesn't have a veto, Kosova has had a majority support. This is no different.

Serbia is halfway away for the liberation of kosovo province from WESTERN occupiers.

VICTORY! And Serbia did not even have to use a gun. I noted that 4 countries that recognized the illegal UDI voted for Serbia. When the World Court (its unofficial name) rules in favor of Serbia, those countries will withdraw their recognitions. You can see the hypocrisy by looking at the vote tally. If the UDI were legal, then why did the us-allied eu countries abstain? Because they were positioning themselves to walk away from Kosovo if things go bad. I also see that the uk is pulling out of Kosovo. Good, because Russia is itching to get into Kosovo. Why hasn't Crna Gora recognized Kosovo yet? I read that the Russian tycoon that owns most of Crna Gora ordered them not to.

o please this is not so big deal, this is just starting wait its 2 more years, thet no thing to be happy for

Old Chinese saying: be careful what you wish for. Based on the treatment by Serbs over 100 years, and no apologies, the court might surprise you. People have certain rights under International Law. Jeremic will be happy since he can say "the court decided it" but Serbs will be upset.

If Serbia presents her case, the other side will do so too, no court will only hear one side. Maybe US or England can file for Kosova but one sided is not normal

You were allowed to ask a question. Are you prepared to accept and respect an answer, whatever that be? Bare in mind that if independence is considered legal,Kosovo will ask Serbia first to respect the international law. I hope you don't come up with the excuse that this is a no binding opinion.

Cvetković said.

"At the same time, this means that if any state decided to recognize Kosovo and Metohija's independence after this decision, it can be interpreted as their disregard of the role that the ICJ has in this particular case,"

Mr.Cvetkovic

How should the Serbian position that " Serbia will never recognize Kosovo" be interpreted? One of the possible opinions of the court might be that independence is legal.Why are you disregarding the role of ICJ in this particular case?

I dont understand how the public in Serbia views this as a victory. It is understandable the officials say that, or they have to admit they lost Kosovo, hence recognize it. ICJ opinion is not binding, and as Dacic said, it will just delay further recognition. Not the case with those who will anyway, like Macedonia/Montenegro. Anyway, more harm is caused to Serbia iteself, taking into considertation British and French ambassadors that this move hinders the integration of W Balcans/Serbia to EU.

"Jeremić reacts to the results of the vote (FoNet)"

Of course he racts, he is a good serb ( posteni srbin), he wants to bring Serbia in EU, and that is the only way , to show to serbs, that Independece of Kosova, is the real thing, it could not have be done differently.
By the way countrys still recognising Kosova, so that means UN vote for ICJ, does not have any effect, in the next UN Assambly will be the vote for accepting Kosova in UN.
Albaninas in Kosova waited for longer than a year , one more year does not mean anything, by the next October , Kosova will not have those trobles from Serbia anymore, who knows, Serbia might be in EU ( or not ) , and does not have any other choice than to recognise Kosova as state.

A complete list of the countries voted In favour of Serbian initiative at UN GA is bellow
( all BRIC countries!)
: Algeria, Angola, Antigua and Barbuda, Argentina, Azerbaijan, Belarus, Bolivia, Botswana, Brazil, Brunei Darussalam, Cambodia, Chile, China, Congo, Costa Rica, Cuba, Cyprus, Democratic People’s Republic of Korea, Democratic Republic of the Congo, Djibouti, Dominica, Dominican Republic, Egypt, El Salvador, Equatorial Guinea, Eritrea, Fiji, Greece, Guatemala, Guinea, Guyana, Honduras, Iceland, India, Indonesia, Iran, Jamaica, Kazakhstan, Kenya, Kyrgyzstan, Lesotho, Liechtenstein, Madagascar, Mauritius, Mexico, Montenegro, Myanmar, Namibia, Nicaragua, Niger, Nigeria, Norway, Panama, Papua New Guinea, Paraguay, Philippines, Romania, Russian Federation, Saint Vincent and the Grenadines, Serbia, Singapore, Slovakia, Solomon Islands, South Africa, Spain, Sri Lanka, Sudan, Suriname, Swaziland, Syria, Timor-Leste, United Republic of Tanzania, Uruguay, Uzbekistan, Viet Nam, Zambia, Zimbabwe.

Serbia is halfway away for the liberation of kosovo province from WESTERN occupiers.

o please this is not so big deal, this is just starting wait its 2 more years, thet no thing to be happy for

B R A V O, great diplomatic victory!

...only democratic global institution, where even the countries such as the United States could not affect the stands of the countries which had voted for the Serbian resolution

Well, well the wheel is turning...and for the time being both US and UK have to face angry people back home. Furthermore, more and more countries are pointing the finger at both for being at the root of the current financial crisis! The boomerang is on it's way back...

There was on line in that article that I think deserves to be repeated:

"I believe that the International Court of Justice will adopt an opinion in keeping with international law, which will reaffirm Serbia's stand that the unilateral declaration of Kosovo's independence was not in line with international law (...)"

It seems to me that a lot of people do not pay attention to the name "International Court of Justice", and instead reads it as "International Court of Law".

Justice != Law

Serbia might have had a chance if it was ICL, but not in ICJ.
--

both US and UK
(The Swiss, 8 October 2008 22:45)

UK did not even vote - after their last minute motion was thrown away, they put the tail between the legs and cowardly walked away. Shows a great backbone... At least Albania and presumably Turkey were consistent.

Didn't I say, there are no "friends" among countries.

I watched some of the vote on the UN site via webcast. For those interested, an incomplete list of those states voting in favor of allowing Serbia's resolution to go to the ICJ are:

Slovakia
Panama (noted all parties should give their views and this vote/ICJ ruling would not have an impact on whether it recognizes Kosovo's UDI)
Egypt
Spain
Greece
Cyprus
Indonesia
Cuba
South Africa (noted that while it certainly is true that 48 states have recognized Kosovo's UDI, 144 have not)
Comoras
Costa Rica
Iran
Algeria
Mexico
Peru (need to have all parties present thier case)
Argentina (came out very forcfully for Serbia in stating 1244 clearly establishes legal and political parameters of handling problem of situation of Kosovo minority within Serbia)
Norway (trusts will be hearing arguments from all sides including Kosovo's goverment)
El Salvador
Singapore (noted it supports some sort of autonomy of Kosovo within Serbia)
Iceland

Anincomplete list of those states who voted against allowing Serbia's resolution to go to the ICJ (which I saw):

US
Albania
Liberia (their vote was not counted in the 6 NOs b/c for some reason they had technical difficulty in voting)

Those states that abstained (which I saw):

France (disagreed w draft resolution and do not find this useful)
Turkey
UK
Canada (Kosovo should be given opportunity to present its case to the court)
Germany (Kosovo's arguments and points need to be heard)
Finland
Denmark (all parties should have access to present their case)
Switzerland

Again, obvioulsy not a complete list, but there you have it . . .

Old Chinese saying: be careful what you wish for. Based on the treatment by Serbs over 100 years, and no apologies, the court might surprise you. People have certain rights under International Law. Jeremic will be happy since he can say "the court decided it" but Serbs will be upset.

If Serbia presents her case, the other side will do so too, no court will only hear one side. Maybe US or England can file for Kosova but one sided is not normal

You were allowed to ask a question. Are you prepared to accept and respect an answer, whatever that be? Bare in mind that if independence is considered legal,Kosovo will ask Serbia first to respect the international law. I hope you don't come up with the excuse that this is a no binding opinion.

Cvetković said.

"At the same time, this means that if any state decided to recognize Kosovo and Metohija's independence after this decision, it can be interpreted as their disregard of the role that the ICJ has in this particular case,"

Mr.Cvetkovic

How should the Serbian position that " Serbia will never recognize Kosovo" be interpreted? One of the possible opinions of the court might be that independence is legal.Why are you disregarding the role of ICJ in this particular case?

Another couple of 'baby steps' taken & more good news for Serbia with the GA's decision to

ignore the UK's 'amendments' & pass Serbia's initiative to the ICJ.

Well done to Serbia & to Mr 'frequent-flyer' Jeremic - may you keep racking up those

'bonus-miles' on Serbia behalf.

Next stop the ICJ.


Jan Andersen, DK:
> Serbia might have had a chance if it was ICL, but not in ICJ.
Agree with you that Justice & Law are two different things. Unfortunately however, like every

other court, the ICJ deals with the latter.

"This non-binding character does not mean that advisory opinions are without legal effect,

because the legal reasoning embodied in them reflects the Court's authoritative views on

important issues of international law and, in arriving at them, the Court follows essentially

the same rules and procedures that govern its binding judgments delivered in contentious cases

submitted to it by sovereign states.

But keep "tilting at windmills' as the world needs idealists - even misguided ones ;)


Miles:
Liberia along with Central African Republic, Comoros, Guinea-Bissau, Sao Tome and Principe,

Somalia & Tajikistan haven't paid their membership dues & so had no voting privileges.

What kind of victory are we talking about, if may I ask?

Just taking a case in the court is a victory? Anyone could open a case in court. A rapist could open a case in court against his victim who broke the rapist nose while defending herself. Buy who would you think would win?

I must say Serbs who "hail this as a victory" are starting to suffer from low self-esteem. Frankly, it would have been unfair for Serbia not to be allowed to ask this opinion but keep in mind that while a ruling in favor of Serbia will change essentially nothing on the ground, the opposite will open UN door to Kosova. K-Albanians don't have to be bound to this ruling, after all they did not ask for it. However it would be very embarrassing for Jeremic and you Serbs commenting here to claim that ICJ is also politicized and a puppet of the West ( as Kate would claim) if it rules against Serbia's expectations.

One lesson that today's decision made clear for those who wants to see is:
"Not the whole world is out there to get Serbia and Kosova's independence is purely a logical outcome of events that followed Serbia's own misdeeds and abuse of human rights in Kosova.

The bottom line is that in every institution, where Russia doesn't have a veto, Kosova has had a majority support. This is no different.

VICTORY! And Serbia did not even have to use a gun. I noted that 4 countries that recognized the illegal UDI voted for Serbia. When the World Court (its unofficial name) rules in favor of Serbia, those countries will withdraw their recognitions. You can see the hypocrisy by looking at the vote tally. If the UDI were legal, then why did the us-allied eu countries abstain? Because they were positioning themselves to walk away from Kosovo if things go bad. I also see that the uk is pulling out of Kosovo. Good, because Russia is itching to get into Kosovo. Why hasn't Crna Gora recognized Kosovo yet? I read that the Russian tycoon that owns most of Crna Gora ordered them not to.

I dont understand how the public in Serbia views this as a victory. It is understandable the officials say that, or they have to admit they lost Kosovo, hence recognize it. ICJ opinion is not binding, and as Dacic said, it will just delay further recognition. Not the case with those who will anyway, like Macedonia/Montenegro. Anyway, more harm is caused to Serbia iteself, taking into considertation British and French ambassadors that this move hinders the integration of W Balcans/Serbia to EU.