Jeremić voices optimism, warns Montenegro

It's no secret CG is getting pressure from both sides regarding Kosovo. If Jeremic is making "threats", they are no different from the "threats" by David Millibrand, and the US Ambassabor to CG (forgot his name). In the end, the decision will ultimately rest with what Milo thinks is best for him. A couple of scenarios might play out:

1. CG recognizes just before an ICJ ruling. The US and UK have made no bone about trying to get a rush of a few more recognitions in before the GA meeting.

2. Milo puts the recognition resolution up for parliamentary vote, knowing it will probably get voted down. He plays both sides by looking to be the one who followed the suggestions of the EU, but was "hamstrung" by his own MPs, and thus avoids taking a definitive side one way or the other.

3. CG chooses not to recognize until a deal is made between Belgrade and Pristina. This removes any indications that EU entry is conditioned on Kosovo recognition (which is little more than blackmail if you ask me).

Whatever the outcome, I am completely convinced that it has little to nothing to do with Montenegro actually having any sympathy with the Albanian side. It's all business. And this business, like most in CG, seems rife with bribery, pressure, and extortion.

I agree with Mike's comment but would add for those that don't understand international politics that Jeremic's position is completely legitimate.

Montenegro is perfectly able to choose to support Kosovo independence if it so decides, but there will be consequences, just as there will be if they decide not to do so.

In fact I would not be surprised if some in Montenegro welcome this 'intervention' from Jeremic because they are looking for an excuse to do nothing.

Peter RV with all due respect but Montenegro was on its belly begging for European Union membership whilst Slobodan Milosevic was still in power. How montenegrin is that exactly?

And thats not even mentioning how the state has become a slave to second rate Russian oligarchs. You got to take a lot of pride in selling everything off, in privatising everything. Its not even possible to walk onto the beach or cross a border without being shaken down by somebody in Montenegro these days... I suppose Serbs are to blame for that?

I'm sorry if the truth hurts but Montenegrins had a special status in former Yugoslavia with a lot of the top jobs. I have nothing against Montenegrins, its just a little much to hear you moaning and whining about Serbia when Montenegro's conduct has hardly been what you would consider honourable now has it? Whilst we are on the topic of honour, how honourable is it to run to Croatia pretending that it was Serbia that made you do all those horrible things to the poor Croats?

Dignified, no?

Mr. Jeremic is absolutely right. You can aspect your enemies to do just about anything. But to have Montenegro our so called brothers recognize Kosovos illegal UDI, would be and should be unforgiving. I hope it doesn�t come to that. We need each other now, more than ever.

First of all,I am a Montenegrinian and i fully disagree with my "government"(mobsters in charge of Montenegro).
Even if this dictator Djukanovic recognizes "Kosova (LOL) " we will reverse the recgnition once the opposition comes to power and we will join Serbia again in one state.
Montenegrins are Serbs and we belong in one state.
Roberto,we don`t really give a damn if you find something disgusting or not,UNSC 1244 is crystal clear:Kosovo and Metohija is part of Serbia and will always be,although it is de facto an occupied part of Southern Serbia and it will be reintegrated sooner or later,Albanian terrorism will NOT prevail.

It's hard to imagine how low Milo will stoop to appease his colonial masters. Can you imagine Montenegro actually recognizing the fake, illegal and immoral state of Kosovo? They may as well go ahead and recognize Ulcinj then. Unbelievable that they are even contemplating this. Sramota bre!!

Nevertheless warnings are not appropriate.
(Igor, 6 October 2008 16:44)

@Igor,
I don’t think Mr Jeremic statement was as much of warning as it was more of brotherly advice. The way it looks to me, Montenegro is succumbing under Albanian and EU s pressure. And that would hurt Serbia. And in the long run it’s defiantly going to hurt Montenegro. You can see writing on the wall. I hope our brothers in Montenegro make a right decision for both of our sakes.

roberto its more like you are showing your true face.

You hide under the concept of human rights but what you really mean is that Serbia doesn't have a right to a foriegn policy any more, or at least it doesn't have a right to a foreign policy that you don't agree with.

What do you find so digusting, that people don't agree with you on Kosovo independence? Too bad, try a dose of humility and understand that what happened in Serbia was not the nazi's in the second world war. In your mind (or heart) you obviously associate them as the same thing which makes you unreasonable and overly emotional. Neither is it helpful if you want to effect positive change either in Serbia or anywhere else.

On a personal note I dont doubt the reasons for your efforts during the 90's for the removal of the Milosevic regime, even if other Serbs do. But that period is over, we are not fighting Milosevic any more.

If you are looking for redemption or some kind of catharsis you won't find it here. Just bloody hard work and one small battle after another. In other words never ending shades of grey, welcome to life...

Its easy to sell something that is not yours. It is far harder to buy something that was always yours.

The Montenegro people do not support recognizing illegally declared independence of Kosovo, and neither should its government. The solution of Kosovo has to be found thru negotiations with Serbia. EU integration cannot be used by Montenegro goverment as an argument to recognize Kosovo since there are EU contries that have not and will not recognize illegaly declared Kosovo as independent country, especially in light that Albanians already have their own country next door.

That cannot go without consequences, especially not at this time. We do not want to make any threats to anyone, even though everyone in the region knows what that would mean. The Montenegrin government is well aware,�


*Serbia to threaten anyone!
Is just so hard to believe, whatever happened to the democratic means and going the legal way (the new serbia way), Serbian true colors are coming out, not that anyone would be fooled by the facade.

PEACE TO YOU SERBIA (you certainly need it)!

CG politicians want to sell out on Srbija. Its obvious. They want to appease Europe and the US. But i dont understand how they can do that with over 33 percent Serbs living there. Dont they have a say? I thought CG was a democracy? LOL.

As this global slowdown continues, I wonder what will happen when the West starts pulling monetary support for kosovo...Europe is headed into a serious reccession and that will affect the balkans directly...

Hey hey, Looks like our little wolf is showing his real skin. It seems like Russia threatening little Georgia, because "we lived together for a long time". Jeremic said "this is not a threat although everybody know what that mean". We Albanians know very well what that mean. Jeremic & Co. does not understand that Kosovo is free forever and is not a land swap for your imperial appetite...GO KOSOVA...THE LAND OF FREE....
The Illyrian Eagle

It would be a "BIG SHAME" for Montenegro if it chooses to served the american policy in the balkans and abandon its serbian brothers and sisters.

DONT LET YOURSELF BE USED BY THE IMPERIALISTS IN BRUSSELS AND WASHINGTON.

From this:
“That cannot go without consequences, especially not at this time. We do not want to make any threats to anyone, even though everyone in the region knows what that would mean. The Montenegrin government is well aware,“

And from the serbian ambassador's comments in the other article, it is clear that Serbia will really get upset if Montenegro recognizes Kosovo before the GA vote, as that could prove to make other nations vote against Serbia's initiative.

But that's all. The Serbian Govt. wants that symbolic victory in the UN, but it is clear that they know that Montenegro will recognize Kosovo, they just don't want it to be before Oct, 8th. As a result Montenegro most likely will recognize Kosovo after this date, but very soon, perhaps a day after.

Jeremic while you are threatening your neighbours can not be classified as peacefully and democratic.

You can not have both ways, it is not anymore 1980 or 1990.

As a pro-Independence Montenegrin who’s family proudly served Prince Danilo I just can not support such a move. It simply goes against everything the Njegos dynasty stood for. Kosovo is our heritage too. We fought for many centuries for it as well. Milo will go down in history as a very dark period of our History if he goes forward with such a plan. Does he really want that legacy?

Basically Milo is a coward who wants to deflect our own complicity and guilt in some of the crimes committed during the 90’s. He knows the West will turn a blind eye towards Montenegro in that regard if they “toe the line”. They want to be treated like Croatia.

Sad thing is we don’t have to do that, we’ll still get in the EU, we have a great tourist area to exploit.

As a Montenegrin, I’m glad Vuk mentioned us. I wish Montenegro would step up and play more of a role of negotiator in the whole situation.

Roberto, what you’re writing doesn’t make a whole lot of sense really. I’d say the West have been far more aggressive than Serbia in their pressure on everyone. If you knew anything at all about Montenegrin history, you’d know we Montenegrins played a HUGE role in popularizing the so-called “Kosovo Myth”. The Mountain Wreath was written by our greatest leader in history.

I ask my fellow Montenegrin brothers, what would Njegos say?

cees I didn't see Tadic's speech regarding apologies and such, but I know it, as he has said it before. And he started mentioning this from the time that he made an apology - yes he has done so already.

Don't get me wrong, I can understand how some relate current foreign policy with past attitude that I did not support. But it is not the same. What people need to do is to ask themselves if they really think that Tadic and Milosevic are the same. Would they do the same things? I believe there is a clear difference between them and their approach to politics. This government can be dealt with, I believe it is a government that is willing to go the extra mile. Of course this government will also attempt to use the Kosovo issue for political mileage (but to a much lesser degree than SRS, DSS or Milosevic), just as Kosovo Albanian politicians are constantly trying to use Kosovo independence for political mileage and to cover up their own incompetance. We have to accept this whether we like it or not.

I do very much doubt that the court will rule in favour of Kosovo independence, in my opinion it is far more likely that the court will fudge the issue, (with Serbia claiming victory and Kosovo Albanians saying it was a draw) although you can be certain there will be dissenting opinions among judges. BTW I'm not sure to what degree history will be taken into account but bear in mind if it is so, it won't be from 1998. I expect them to focus far more on the principles involved in founding a new state that formerlly had the status of region.

Still, I do hope for a conclusive verdict and for guidance on this issue generally, which is a very important one in international relations.

Peter RV, you are backtracking so fast I can hardly see you. Its hard to connect your first and second post, but the decade of Serbian cowardice and promotion of Montenegrins as a bastion of principle is a load of simplistic rubbish.

If something is right, then you don't need to latch onto a neigbouring country for guidance or to make excuses for one whilst condemning the other.

Its simple there are 3 positions support of Kos ind, not declaring for now, or against. Trying to blame somebody else for everything is avoidance of the issue.

LOL at Jeremic and Serbia for their empty threats against Montenegro.

What ya gonna do? Recall your ambassador for a couple of months and then re-instate him again? LOL.

"Jeremic while you are threatening your neighbours can not be classified as peacefully and democratic.
You can not have both ways, it is not anymore 1980 or 1990."
(avi, 6 October 2008 16:55)

sorry, but this is the "real" serbia coming out, and let's face it, it ain't pretty. but apparently our moderate posters think it is "fine." i think it is disgusting, and represents the same old milosevic-era attitudes. it is ugly and arrogant, and Believe me, will bring no one to the table.

this is the part that i never get -- Belgrade roars and then expects her neighbors to smile or at least to shiver and humble themselves. now shiver they do, but not in order to humble themselves.

such arrogance always has nasty consequences, which i think we shall see.

oct. 8th is approaching, and i am still hoping that the world gets the true message, and rejects this latest attempt to club and intimidate the people of Kosovo/a, not to mention the rest of serbia's neighbors.

ciao.

roberto
california

Roberto, your subjectivity is so obvious that its hard to believe ANYTHING you say, even though some of your points are legitimate.

@22CG. I applaud you.
It's time these Albanians realized that they cannot put a wedge between brothers.

Nothing lasts forever. Let's just hope that the damage is not going to be too great to reverse.

From what I hear he is changing quite a few things there and the younger generation will grown up thinking that they are not Serbs. Does anyone quote Njegos any more? He identified hismelf as a Serb.
That should clear things up.

Serbia mustn't forget that Montenegro is an independent country. Consultations are always welcome especialy with Serbia, since we share common values and a common culture. Nevertheless warnings are not appropriate. Montenegro has delt well with the Kosovo-situation and it would be good for Kosovo-Albanians and Serbs to take Montenegrin advise. Montenegro has a democraticly elected parliament and one should respect any decision it makes. It is a pity that emotions are still runing high, but any decission Montenegro makes is not pro or against someone but regarding whats best for the region and Montenegro itself. Serbia will be Montenegro's closes ally and our relations will always be special.

"We would not see it in any other way but for what it would be, and that is a stab in the back not only for Serbia, but our diplomatic efforts for a peaceful and legal solution for the future status of our southern province of Kosovo,� the minister (Jeremic) said"

Terrific words, but I am afraid won't impress many Montenegrins, and I don't mean only those on Solana's payroll.
Serbia has displayed such a cowardice during last ten years that it is no wonder lots of Montenegrins see this "stabbing in the back" as nothing more than what Serbia has been doing to itself for the last ten years.
Incessant wailing, crying and crawling on the belly to enter Europe is an utterly undignified picture for a Montenegrin to accept- together with a call for solidarity.
If Serbis's message to us is to accept a prostitution to Europe, then with what enthusiasm does Serbia expect the Montenegrins to defend its teritorial integrity?
Serbia has to get up from its knees if it wants to gain respect in Montenegro.

Serbia “absolutely will not sit idle“ if Podgorica recognizes Kosovo, he continued.

“That cannot go without consequences, especially not at this time. We do not want to make any threats to anyone, even though everyone in the region knows what that would mean.

Let's ask the UN and the ICJ whether the above statement is a threat/pressure or not.

I personally am not bothered about the Serbia's threat but why Serbia is very nervous when the others warn/advise Serbia and the countries in the region what is the way forward towards the regional peace and stability?

avi, Agim, The Illyrian Eagle, EA, qemal, roberto:
Am not surprised that all of you would seek to twist Mr Jeremic's words, as you badly need some sort of victory at this stage, manufactured or otherwise. Unfortunately this isn't it. Even a child knows all actions have consequences. Question is, do any of you?

Tymi:
> Serbia deserve better diplomats.
Personally, am quite happy with Mr 'bonusmiles' Jeremic.

Good job bub.

Guys! Do not blame Jeremic for his comments. These are just bad translation from Russian recommendations. If you follow all all the Russian declarations, comments, interviews, official statements, etc, especially after the conflict with Georgia, you will find the same rhetoric. I all my previous comments I have criticized Jeremic´s comments, believing these are his or Serbian comments. Now is clear who is behind this. Serbia deserve better diplomats.

On a personal note I dont doubt the reasons for your efforts during the 90's for the removal of the Milosevic regime, even if other Serbs do. But that period is over, we are not fighting Milosevic any more.

If you are looking for redemption or some kind of catharsis you won't find it here. Just bloody hard work and one small battle after another. In other words never ending shades of grey, welcome to life...
(bganon, 6 October 2008 22:41)

You said better and shorter than I did, bganon. Sad is, that with all good intent the result Roberto is achieving is just the opposite he wants. Maybe he should clarify the assumptions he is starting from. Maybe he built an imaginery "Serbia-Monster" around him he tries to fight - but that monster does not exist.

I wish, many things what the "West" did in the post-communist area would not happen, we would be much better of right now.

Bganon (#12)as usual, never wants to read carefully what I say. Well, I'll spell it to him:
I never defended the Montenegrin Government nor the Montenegrins themselves, for that matter.
It should have been obvious that what I was saying ,was, that Jeremic giving us lectures how to be dignified, is totally out of place, coming from the moral squalor which his Serbia represents today . I never claimed our Government is any better (perhaps because we have the same bosses?).
Montenegrins, for anybody's informatiom, in majority feel as Serbian (never mind the fraudulent Milo's referendum), and it is to this part that the present Serbia gives the sorry picture of a scabrous dog starved for affection from those who are kicking it.
It is this part of Montenegro that looks with sorrow towards Serbia-certainly not Milo and his satraps.
There were times Serbia gave us exemple of dignity and pride.

"If you are looking for redemption or some kind of catharsis you won't find it here. Just bloody hard work and one small battle after another. In other words never ending shades of grey, welcome to life..."

Bganon, since the time I felt the obligation to be engaged in the developments on the Balkans, especially with Serbia and Kosovo, I could find your comments in this forum serious and honest; mostly enriching, because you are giving the other voice of Serbia, contrasting the usually too radical and nationalistic opinion of most of the other Serbian contributors from Serbia or, even stronger, from those Serbs living far away in the UK, Canada or USA.

As it is in politics the reaction of the leaders are subject of the news and not the work on the basis. And as we could read in the last days, some of your politicians are more of the lazy kind. But what I would like to hear from your political leaders is just a word of repentance over the past. I was hopeful to hear a word on this from Tadic, as he accepted in Berlin this honourable award. The only thing he came with was the accusation that the other states on the Balkans didn't signalled words of remorse, instead to come with a good example himself.

I think that this is the difficulty for us, if we are dealing with Serbian policy, except of the one by the Human Rights Organizations in your country. There is a too little bias to show a little guilt yourself.
Against this background I pose all the remarks, acts and behaviour of your government(s). What I see, is still the bias to show the Serbian nation as a nation that is used to control his neighbours; to dominate and dictate with an air of being the most righteous nation on earth. To be the only nation in the world who knows the "truth" and bears the right judgment in itself.
In several comments I already wrote that I am supporting the appeal to the ICJ. I think that Serbia will strike out with it. The court will vote in favor of the independence of Kosovo. It is the pragmatic solution to end all the developments after the dissolution of Yugoslavia. It is the belief in creating a permanent stability. In the judgment of a court in the 21st century is a lost battle in the 14th.century not relevant, because no nation on the world is living in the same borders of that time.
The recent history will dominate the discussions, and in that case, I think, Tadic and Jeremic are overestimating the position of the country.

For those of you saying that nations will reverse their decision of recognizing Kosovo once ______ happens.

Guess what, that ain't happening.

No government or nation, after recognizing another country, will go back and say "Hey fellas, we made a mistake. We're morons, so we would kindly like to reverse our idiocy. Thanks."

That just doesn't happen. It's irreversible. No one wants to look weak and insecure in the world stage. Sorry, but recognitions are permanent.

haha... this guy is amazing.. .we are not threatening you but don't you dare do anything 'cos i will do things to you that you will regret, but i am not threatening.

So he is going to meet with his "counterpart" Estonian friend, good on serbia finally its talking to countries that have reconganised Rep of Kosova right at the beginning of dec. of Inpdnce.

CG
I think UNSC 1244 refers to Yugoslavia and not Serbia.

who the hell is Jeremic to tell my country what policy they should follow on Kosovo?

Premijer Djukanovic put the best. I hope b92 publish an english version of Djukonavic's reponse to Jeremic's statement on Montengro.

http://vesti.krstarica.com/?rubrika=aktuelno〈=0&sifra=7f00f9d13b502347a2e97c2ba8489fe5&dan=07&mesec=10&godina=2008

bganon (#32)
I think I see your problem.
You can't be a Serb- therefore- impossible for you to understand what I am saying.
Someone who writes :

"If something is right, then you don't need to latch onto a neigbouring country for guidance or to make excuses for one whilst condemning the other."
,expressing such reverance for the demarcation lines traced by Solana -Nato corporation,
can't possibly have a feelings that are genuinly Serb.
You are obviously ignorant that Njegos has given Serbs forever, a spiritual unity, regardless where they live, in Montenegro,Serbia, Bosnia, Hercegovina or Kraina.
You see, the spirit of Njegos forbids us to accept the borders made by foreigners as anything but violence committed on Serbs.
The concept of "neighbouring countries" between the Serbs will disappear in not too distant future (can't you hear Europe-US cracking up?).
bganon,before you read and digest the first page of the "Gorski Vijenac"
we really have nothing to say to each other.
We function on different wavelenghts.

Peter oh I see, because I don't agree with you that means my feelings cannot be Serb. That sounds familiar...

My 'feelings' are my own, I do not own an ethnic compass, rather I prefer to make my own mind up.

If because I don't agree with you that Serbia is not cowardly for example, that does not make me a follower of Solana. Nor does recognising the reality that Montenegro is independent makes me somehow unSerb. You can BELIEVE all you want, but reality matters. Montenegro is independent.

And the idea that Njegos, great man that he was, goes above all laws or above the bible for example, well I think the humour wouldn't be lost him.

We may function on different wavelengths, but I'm not blind to the fact that you are a decent guy who speaks his mind truthfully. But I do think you are misguided.

Hey hey, Looks like our little wolf is showing his real skin. It seems like Russia threatening little Georgia, because "we lived together for a long time". Jeremic said "this is not a threat although everybody know what that mean". We Albanians know very well what that mean. Jeremic & Co. does not understand that Kosovo is free forever and is not a land swap for your imperial appetite...GO KOSOVA...THE LAND OF FREE....
The Illyrian Eagle

That cannot go without consequences, especially not at this time. We do not want to make any threats to anyone, even though everyone in the region knows what that would mean. The Montenegrin government is well aware,�


*Serbia to threaten anyone!
Is just so hard to believe, whatever happened to the democratic means and going the legal way (the new serbia way), Serbian true colors are coming out, not that anyone would be fooled by the facade.

PEACE TO YOU SERBIA (you certainly need it)!

Jeremic while you are threatening your neighbours can not be classified as peacefully and democratic.

You can not have both ways, it is not anymore 1980 or 1990.

From this:
“That cannot go without consequences, especially not at this time. We do not want to make any threats to anyone, even though everyone in the region knows what that would mean. The Montenegrin government is well aware,“

And from the serbian ambassador's comments in the other article, it is clear that Serbia will really get upset if Montenegro recognizes Kosovo before the GA vote, as that could prove to make other nations vote against Serbia's initiative.

But that's all. The Serbian Govt. wants that symbolic victory in the UN, but it is clear that they know that Montenegro will recognize Kosovo, they just don't want it to be before Oct, 8th. As a result Montenegro most likely will recognize Kosovo after this date, but very soon, perhaps a day after.

"Jeremic while you are threatening your neighbours can not be classified as peacefully and democratic.
You can not have both ways, it is not anymore 1980 or 1990."
(avi, 6 October 2008 16:55)

sorry, but this is the "real" serbia coming out, and let's face it, it ain't pretty. but apparently our moderate posters think it is "fine." i think it is disgusting, and represents the same old milosevic-era attitudes. it is ugly and arrogant, and Believe me, will bring no one to the table.

this is the part that i never get -- Belgrade roars and then expects her neighbors to smile or at least to shiver and humble themselves. now shiver they do, but not in order to humble themselves.

such arrogance always has nasty consequences, which i think we shall see.

oct. 8th is approaching, and i am still hoping that the world gets the true message, and rejects this latest attempt to club and intimidate the people of Kosovo/a, not to mention the rest of serbia's neighbors.

ciao.

roberto
california

"We would not see it in any other way but for what it would be, and that is a stab in the back not only for Serbia, but our diplomatic efforts for a peaceful and legal solution for the future status of our southern province of Kosovo,� the minister (Jeremic) said"

Terrific words, but I am afraid won't impress many Montenegrins, and I don't mean only those on Solana's payroll.
Serbia has displayed such a cowardice during last ten years that it is no wonder lots of Montenegrins see this "stabbing in the back" as nothing more than what Serbia has been doing to itself for the last ten years.
Incessant wailing, crying and crawling on the belly to enter Europe is an utterly undignified picture for a Montenegrin to accept- together with a call for solidarity.
If Serbis's message to us is to accept a prostitution to Europe, then with what enthusiasm does Serbia expect the Montenegrins to defend its teritorial integrity?
Serbia has to get up from its knees if it wants to gain respect in Montenegro.

LOL at Jeremic and Serbia for their empty threats against Montenegro.

What ya gonna do? Recall your ambassador for a couple of months and then re-instate him again? LOL.

Serbia mustn't forget that Montenegro is an independent country. Consultations are always welcome especialy with Serbia, since we share common values and a common culture. Nevertheless warnings are not appropriate. Montenegro has delt well with the Kosovo-situation and it would be good for Kosovo-Albanians and Serbs to take Montenegrin advise. Montenegro has a democraticly elected parliament and one should respect any decision it makes. It is a pity that emotions are still runing high, but any decission Montenegro makes is not pro or against someone but regarding whats best for the region and Montenegro itself. Serbia will be Montenegro's closes ally and our relations will always be special.

Mr. Jeremic is absolutely right. You can aspect your enemies to do just about anything. But to have Montenegro our so called brothers recognize Kosovos illegal UDI, would be and should be unforgiving. I hope it doesn�t come to that. We need each other now, more than ever.

Guys! Do not blame Jeremic for his comments. These are just bad translation from Russian recommendations. If you follow all all the Russian declarations, comments, interviews, official statements, etc, especially after the conflict with Georgia, you will find the same rhetoric. I all my previous comments I have criticized Jeremic´s comments, believing these are his or Serbian comments. Now is clear who is behind this. Serbia deserve better diplomats.

Serbia “absolutely will not sit idle“ if Podgorica recognizes Kosovo, he continued.

“That cannot go without consequences, especially not at this time. We do not want to make any threats to anyone, even though everyone in the region knows what that would mean.

Let's ask the UN and the ICJ whether the above statement is a threat/pressure or not.

I personally am not bothered about the Serbia's threat but why Serbia is very nervous when the others warn/advise Serbia and the countries in the region what is the way forward towards the regional peace and stability?

It's hard to imagine how low Milo will stoop to appease his colonial masters. Can you imagine Montenegro actually recognizing the fake, illegal and immoral state of Kosovo? They may as well go ahead and recognize Ulcinj then. Unbelievable that they are even contemplating this. Sramota bre!!

It would be a "BIG SHAME" for Montenegro if it chooses to served the american policy in the balkans and abandon its serbian brothers and sisters.

DONT LET YOURSELF BE USED BY THE IMPERIALISTS IN BRUSSELS AND WASHINGTON.

Bganon (#12)as usual, never wants to read carefully what I say. Well, I'll spell it to him:
I never defended the Montenegrin Government nor the Montenegrins themselves, for that matter.
It should have been obvious that what I was saying ,was, that Jeremic giving us lectures how to be dignified, is totally out of place, coming from the moral squalor which his Serbia represents today . I never claimed our Government is any better (perhaps because we have the same bosses?).
Montenegrins, for anybody's informatiom, in majority feel as Serbian (never mind the fraudulent Milo's referendum), and it is to this part that the present Serbia gives the sorry picture of a scabrous dog starved for affection from those who are kicking it.
It is this part of Montenegro that looks with sorrow towards Serbia-certainly not Milo and his satraps.
There were times Serbia gave us exemple of dignity and pride.

First of all,I am a Montenegrinian and i fully disagree with my "government"(mobsters in charge of Montenegro).
Even if this dictator Djukanovic recognizes "Kosova (LOL) " we will reverse the recgnition once the opposition comes to power and we will join Serbia again in one state.
Montenegrins are Serbs and we belong in one state.
Roberto,we don`t really give a damn if you find something disgusting or not,UNSC 1244 is crystal clear:Kosovo and Metohija is part of Serbia and will always be,although it is de facto an occupied part of Southern Serbia and it will be reintegrated sooner or later,Albanian terrorism will NOT prevail.

haha... this guy is amazing.. .we are not threatening you but don't you dare do anything 'cos i will do things to you that you will regret, but i am not threatening.

So he is going to meet with his "counterpart" Estonian friend, good on serbia finally its talking to countries that have reconganised Rep of Kosova right at the beginning of dec. of Inpdnce.

Its easy to sell something that is not yours. It is far harder to buy something that was always yours.

Nevertheless warnings are not appropriate.
(Igor, 6 October 2008 16:44)

@Igor,
I don’t think Mr Jeremic statement was as much of warning as it was more of brotherly advice. The way it looks to me, Montenegro is succumbing under Albanian and EU s pressure. And that would hurt Serbia. And in the long run it’s defiantly going to hurt Montenegro. You can see writing on the wall. I hope our brothers in Montenegro make a right decision for both of our sakes.

roberto its more like you are showing your true face.

You hide under the concept of human rights but what you really mean is that Serbia doesn't have a right to a foriegn policy any more, or at least it doesn't have a right to a foreign policy that you don't agree with.

What do you find so digusting, that people don't agree with you on Kosovo independence? Too bad, try a dose of humility and understand that what happened in Serbia was not the nazi's in the second world war. In your mind (or heart) you obviously associate them as the same thing which makes you unreasonable and overly emotional. Neither is it helpful if you want to effect positive change either in Serbia or anywhere else.

On a personal note I dont doubt the reasons for your efforts during the 90's for the removal of the Milosevic regime, even if other Serbs do. But that period is over, we are not fighting Milosevic any more.

If you are looking for redemption or some kind of catharsis you won't find it here. Just bloody hard work and one small battle after another. In other words never ending shades of grey, welcome to life...

For those of you saying that nations will reverse their decision of recognizing Kosovo once ______ happens.

Guess what, that ain't happening.

No government or nation, after recognizing another country, will go back and say "Hey fellas, we made a mistake. We're morons, so we would kindly like to reverse our idiocy. Thanks."

That just doesn't happen. It's irreversible. No one wants to look weak and insecure in the world stage. Sorry, but recognitions are permanent.

avi, Agim, The Illyrian Eagle, EA, qemal, roberto:
Am not surprised that all of you would seek to twist Mr Jeremic's words, as you badly need some sort of victory at this stage, manufactured or otherwise. Unfortunately this isn't it. Even a child knows all actions have consequences. Question is, do any of you?

Tymi:
> Serbia deserve better diplomats.
Personally, am quite happy with Mr 'bonusmiles' Jeremic.

Good job bub.

cees I didn't see Tadic's speech regarding apologies and such, but I know it, as he has said it before. And he started mentioning this from the time that he made an apology - yes he has done so already.

Don't get me wrong, I can understand how some relate current foreign policy with past attitude that I did not support. But it is not the same. What people need to do is to ask themselves if they really think that Tadic and Milosevic are the same. Would they do the same things? I believe there is a clear difference between them and their approach to politics. This government can be dealt with, I believe it is a government that is willing to go the extra mile. Of course this government will also attempt to use the Kosovo issue for political mileage (but to a much lesser degree than SRS, DSS or Milosevic), just as Kosovo Albanian politicians are constantly trying to use Kosovo independence for political mileage and to cover up their own incompetance. We have to accept this whether we like it or not.

I do very much doubt that the court will rule in favour of Kosovo independence, in my opinion it is far more likely that the court will fudge the issue, (with Serbia claiming victory and Kosovo Albanians saying it was a draw) although you can be certain there will be dissenting opinions among judges. BTW I'm not sure to what degree history will be taken into account but bear in mind if it is so, it won't be from 1998. I expect them to focus far more on the principles involved in founding a new state that formerlly had the status of region.

Still, I do hope for a conclusive verdict and for guidance on this issue generally, which is a very important one in international relations.

Peter RV, you are backtracking so fast I can hardly see you. Its hard to connect your first and second post, but the decade of Serbian cowardice and promotion of Montenegrins as a bastion of principle is a load of simplistic rubbish.

If something is right, then you don't need to latch onto a neigbouring country for guidance or to make excuses for one whilst condemning the other.

Its simple there are 3 positions support of Kos ind, not declaring for now, or against. Trying to blame somebody else for everything is avoidance of the issue.

I agree with Mike's comment but would add for those that don't understand international politics that Jeremic's position is completely legitimate.

Montenegro is perfectly able to choose to support Kosovo independence if it so decides, but there will be consequences, just as there will be if they decide not to do so.

In fact I would not be surprised if some in Montenegro welcome this 'intervention' from Jeremic because they are looking for an excuse to do nothing.

Peter RV with all due respect but Montenegro was on its belly begging for European Union membership whilst Slobodan Milosevic was still in power. How montenegrin is that exactly?

And thats not even mentioning how the state has become a slave to second rate Russian oligarchs. You got to take a lot of pride in selling everything off, in privatising everything. Its not even possible to walk onto the beach or cross a border without being shaken down by somebody in Montenegro these days... I suppose Serbs are to blame for that?

I'm sorry if the truth hurts but Montenegrins had a special status in former Yugoslavia with a lot of the top jobs. I have nothing against Montenegrins, its just a little much to hear you moaning and whining about Serbia when Montenegro's conduct has hardly been what you would consider honourable now has it? Whilst we are on the topic of honour, how honourable is it to run to Croatia pretending that it was Serbia that made you do all those horrible things to the poor Croats?

Dignified, no?

"If you are looking for redemption or some kind of catharsis you won't find it here. Just bloody hard work and one small battle after another. In other words never ending shades of grey, welcome to life..."

Bganon, since the time I felt the obligation to be engaged in the developments on the Balkans, especially with Serbia and Kosovo, I could find your comments in this forum serious and honest; mostly enriching, because you are giving the other voice of Serbia, contrasting the usually too radical and nationalistic opinion of most of the other Serbian contributors from Serbia or, even stronger, from those Serbs living far away in the UK, Canada or USA.

As it is in politics the reaction of the leaders are subject of the news and not the work on the basis. And as we could read in the last days, some of your politicians are more of the lazy kind. But what I would like to hear from your political leaders is just a word of repentance over the past. I was hopeful to hear a word on this from Tadic, as he accepted in Berlin this honourable award. The only thing he came with was the accusation that the other states on the Balkans didn't signalled words of remorse, instead to come with a good example himself.

I think that this is the difficulty for us, if we are dealing with Serbian policy, except of the one by the Human Rights Organizations in your country. There is a too little bias to show a little guilt yourself.
Against this background I pose all the remarks, acts and behaviour of your government(s). What I see, is still the bias to show the Serbian nation as a nation that is used to control his neighbours; to dominate and dictate with an air of being the most righteous nation on earth. To be the only nation in the world who knows the "truth" and bears the right judgment in itself.
In several comments I already wrote that I am supporting the appeal to the ICJ. I think that Serbia will strike out with it. The court will vote in favor of the independence of Kosovo. It is the pragmatic solution to end all the developments after the dissolution of Yugoslavia. It is the belief in creating a permanent stability. In the judgment of a court in the 21st century is a lost battle in the 14th.century not relevant, because no nation on the world is living in the same borders of that time.
The recent history will dominate the discussions, and in that case, I think, Tadic and Jeremic are overestimating the position of the country.

On a personal note I dont doubt the reasons for your efforts during the 90's for the removal of the Milosevic regime, even if other Serbs do. But that period is over, we are not fighting Milosevic any more.

If you are looking for redemption or some kind of catharsis you won't find it here. Just bloody hard work and one small battle after another. In other words never ending shades of grey, welcome to life...
(bganon, 6 October 2008 22:41)

You said better and shorter than I did, bganon. Sad is, that with all good intent the result Roberto is achieving is just the opposite he wants. Maybe he should clarify the assumptions he is starting from. Maybe he built an imaginery "Serbia-Monster" around him he tries to fight - but that monster does not exist.

I wish, many things what the "West" did in the post-communist area would not happen, we would be much better of right now.

@22CG. I applaud you.
It's time these Albanians realized that they cannot put a wedge between brothers.

Nothing lasts forever. Let's just hope that the damage is not going to be too great to reverse.

From what I hear he is changing quite a few things there and the younger generation will grown up thinking that they are not Serbs. Does anyone quote Njegos any more? He identified hismelf as a Serb.
That should clear things up.

CG
I think UNSC 1244 refers to Yugoslavia and not Serbia.

It's no secret CG is getting pressure from both sides regarding Kosovo. If Jeremic is making "threats", they are no different from the "threats" by David Millibrand, and the US Ambassabor to CG (forgot his name). In the end, the decision will ultimately rest with what Milo thinks is best for him. A couple of scenarios might play out:

1. CG recognizes just before an ICJ ruling. The US and UK have made no bone about trying to get a rush of a few more recognitions in before the GA meeting.

2. Milo puts the recognition resolution up for parliamentary vote, knowing it will probably get voted down. He plays both sides by looking to be the one who followed the suggestions of the EU, but was "hamstrung" by his own MPs, and thus avoids taking a definitive side one way or the other.

3. CG chooses not to recognize until a deal is made between Belgrade and Pristina. This removes any indications that EU entry is conditioned on Kosovo recognition (which is little more than blackmail if you ask me).

Whatever the outcome, I am completely convinced that it has little to nothing to do with Montenegro actually having any sympathy with the Albanian side. It's all business. And this business, like most in CG, seems rife with bribery, pressure, and extortion.

CG politicians want to sell out on Srbija. Its obvious. They want to appease Europe and the US. But i dont understand how they can do that with over 33 percent Serbs living there. Dont they have a say? I thought CG was a democracy? LOL.

As this global slowdown continues, I wonder what will happen when the West starts pulling monetary support for kosovo...Europe is headed into a serious reccession and that will affect the balkans directly...

The Montenegro people do not support recognizing illegally declared independence of Kosovo, and neither should its government. The solution of Kosovo has to be found thru negotiations with Serbia. EU integration cannot be used by Montenegro goverment as an argument to recognize Kosovo since there are EU contries that have not and will not recognize illegaly declared Kosovo as independent country, especially in light that Albanians already have their own country next door.

Roberto, your subjectivity is so obvious that its hard to believe ANYTHING you say, even though some of your points are legitimate.

As a pro-Independence Montenegrin who’s family proudly served Prince Danilo I just can not support such a move. It simply goes against everything the Njegos dynasty stood for. Kosovo is our heritage too. We fought for many centuries for it as well. Milo will go down in history as a very dark period of our History if he goes forward with such a plan. Does he really want that legacy?

Basically Milo is a coward who wants to deflect our own complicity and guilt in some of the crimes committed during the 90’s. He knows the West will turn a blind eye towards Montenegro in that regard if they “toe the line”. They want to be treated like Croatia.

Sad thing is we don’t have to do that, we’ll still get in the EU, we have a great tourist area to exploit.

As a Montenegrin, I’m glad Vuk mentioned us. I wish Montenegro would step up and play more of a role of negotiator in the whole situation.

Roberto, what you’re writing doesn’t make a whole lot of sense really. I’d say the West have been far more aggressive than Serbia in their pressure on everyone. If you knew anything at all about Montenegrin history, you’d know we Montenegrins played a HUGE role in popularizing the so-called “Kosovo Myth”. The Mountain Wreath was written by our greatest leader in history.

I ask my fellow Montenegrin brothers, what would Njegos say?

who the hell is Jeremic to tell my country what policy they should follow on Kosovo?

Premijer Djukanovic put the best. I hope b92 publish an english version of Djukonavic's reponse to Jeremic's statement on Montengro.

http://vesti.krstarica.com/?rubrika=aktuelno〈=0&sifra=7f00f9d13b502347a2e97c2ba8489fe5&dan=07&mesec=10&godina=2008

bganon (#32)
I think I see your problem.
You can't be a Serb- therefore- impossible for you to understand what I am saying.
Someone who writes :

"If something is right, then you don't need to latch onto a neigbouring country for guidance or to make excuses for one whilst condemning the other."
,expressing such reverance for the demarcation lines traced by Solana -Nato corporation,
can't possibly have a feelings that are genuinly Serb.
You are obviously ignorant that Njegos has given Serbs forever, a spiritual unity, regardless where they live, in Montenegro,Serbia, Bosnia, Hercegovina or Kraina.
You see, the spirit of Njegos forbids us to accept the borders made by foreigners as anything but violence committed on Serbs.
The concept of "neighbouring countries" between the Serbs will disappear in not too distant future (can't you hear Europe-US cracking up?).
bganon,before you read and digest the first page of the "Gorski Vijenac"
we really have nothing to say to each other.
We function on different wavelenghts.

Peter oh I see, because I don't agree with you that means my feelings cannot be Serb. That sounds familiar...

My 'feelings' are my own, I do not own an ethnic compass, rather I prefer to make my own mind up.

If because I don't agree with you that Serbia is not cowardly for example, that does not make me a follower of Solana. Nor does recognising the reality that Montenegro is independent makes me somehow unSerb. You can BELIEVE all you want, but reality matters. Montenegro is independent.

And the idea that Njegos, great man that he was, goes above all laws or above the bible for example, well I think the humour wouldn't be lost him.

We may function on different wavelengths, but I'm not blind to the fact that you are a decent guy who speaks his mind truthfully. But I do think you are misguided.