"Many will support Serbian initiative"

Its good that Surroi is injecting a bit of realism into the debate on the Albanian side. I know with the general immaturity of Kosovo Albanian politicians he sees it as his mission to underplay in order to counter exaggerated expectations.

But Ben's comments are simply laughable. In Serbia there are all kinds of opinions, Serbian society is not noted for absence of debate, quite the opposite. LDP may be a small party, nevertheless it is a parliamentary one and the NGO's they are allied with are not uninfluential, at least on international policymakers.

Suffice to say there are serious differences of opinion between all the Serbian politicians you mentioned and any half intelligent reader of this site would know that Serbs can often be at each others throats on what they believe is best for Kosovo / Serbia. Hardly the same policy.

In all seriousness I'd be absolutely delighted if Kosovo Albanian society had as much debate on a variety of issues. I'd be delighted if for example Kosovo Albanians who supported Yugoslavia could speak freely without being accused of treachery or similar - and I'm not talking about politicians who have since 'awakened' either!

Quite the contrary, the thing that worries me about Kosovo society is the lack of debate. But I'm hoping this is slowly changing.

Ataman- you were not welcomed 30 years ago and you will NOT be welcomed even today. people like you are simply NOT welcomed. period.
(ben, 6 October 2008 14:39)

Nice words, Ben. Speaks well about your attitude. So you will stay with your AK-47 and aim at every American around you can see? You know, because I am not Serb. And a while ago I was pro-Albanian. Until I visited Kosovo.

Every time I hear Surroi speaking I am reminded of the fact of how thrilling democracy Kosova is. This is not land issue for Kosovars it is FREEDOM at stake and yet they can speak freely!

Can you find any such statements in the Serbian camp??? What's the difference between Tadic, Kostunica, Nikolic and others in Kosova dispute??? NONE!!!

They ARE ALL IN BUNKERS.

They ARE ALL IN BUNKERS.
(ben, 6 October 2008 12:44)

Ben, I think it is you who are living in a bunker. Reality is slowly creeping up onto 'Team Kosova'. Its back to the table for constructive jaw-jaw.

Veton Surroi will probably be heading up the provincial Kosovo leadership once autonomy is reinstated and this US game comes to an end. He is the smartest K-ALbanian and he knows there is no independence out of Serbia but autonomy and he is probably the only one acceptable to Belgrade. He's hedging his bets. The days of Thaci, Haridinaj, Sejdiu and Ceku are coming to an end. Its a question of where they get granted asylum.
(Obvious, 6 October 2008 14:47)

The term 'you hit the nail on the head' was invented for you. I have been reading the statements of the various K-Albanian politicians over the last couple of years. Their statements have ranged from the downright ridicolous to self delusional. Surroi is the exception and is a breath of fresh air to the incessant clap-trap coming from Sejdiu and Thaci.

Surroi being a member of Pristina's chattering classes gives you an indication of the murmurings of the intelligentsia in the province. Reality is slowly dawning that the only way out of deadlock is to get back to the table and start engaging in a constructive jaw-jaw with Belgrade.

Surroi is not the only one expressing reservations about the Pristina leadership. There are many others including the ordinary Agim and Artan on main street but are too scared to speak out.

To sum up Ben's words, "what a thrilling democracy 'Kosova' is".

But I'm hoping this is slowly changing.
(bganon, 6 October 2008 15:18)

Very slowly. See Ben's comments. They have lightyears to go.

am I reading this correctly, he is really talking of a "wave"???

:)

poor guy, actually he is not poor, he earned a lot of bucks at expense of the K-albanians.
perhaps that is the reason he is saying something like that...

I am reminded of the fact of how thrilling democracy Kosova is.
(ben, 6 October 2008 12:44)

It was indeed thrilling to visit Kosovo for us back in 1980. Want to know details? Some of you guys are really "thrilling". I may try it again soon - to see what changed... "Democracy"... why not "cleptocracy"/"gangstercracy"?

---------

This is not land issue for Kosovars it is FREEDOM at stake and yet they can speak freely!
(ben, 6 October 2008 12:44)

Not in Serbian language tough and your guests are not allowed to speak to you in any Slavic language to be safe. This is the Kosovo-"FREEDOM". Shame on that.

---------

Can you find any such statements in the Serbian camp???
(ben, 6 October 2008 12:44)

Of course, many debates, many different opinions.

---------

What's the difference between Tadic, Kostunica, Nikolic and others in Kosova dispute??? NONE!!!
(ben, 6 October 2008 12:44)

Please read what they say/write again. There are significant differences in their views how to achieve the stability and prosperity. Some of their views are IMO straight wrong, some not. Ask 20 people, they will have 40 opinions on that. It is not easy.

---------

They ARE ALL IN BUNKERS.
(ben, 6 October 2008 12:44)

Bunkers were indeed built in certain small European country in big number. To fight China, Soviet Union, USA, Yugoslavia, Greece, Space Alians. But it proved to be a contra-productive measure.

---------


To Roberto, if he does read: here is a good sample of me being probably to offensive. But this is a reaction to a poster who just throwing dirt at the wall, with the hope, some of it does stick. And unlike the OP I can back everything what I say. Even if my words aren't pleasant.

To Ben: don't like what I say? You are right. Than stop throwing dirt at the wall. Not just nothing will stick to it, but much will fly back - and at higher speed because for everything I write I have a good number of links to back my writing. Except, of course, there is no record how AS FOREIGN TOURISTS we were treated in Kosovo 30 years ago - just my memories.

Thanks for understanding. And imagine. One day you won't throw that dirt. And nothing will fly back! Just polite chit-chat about politics and "agree to disagree". How about that?

ben,

the word democracy surely originates from Illyrian language but nevertheless, even you should know about the statements given in the thrilling democracy of Serbia by Čedomir Jovanović and LDP about the Kosovo dispute. They have long time spoken – freely – for the independent Kosovo.

I also think you should do your homeworks before you appear here asking about the "difference between Tadic, Kostunica, Nikolic and others in Kosova dispute".

You can warm up by answering me: What's the difference between Sejdiu, Thaci, Krasniqi, Gashi, Ceku, Haradinaj, Daci, Rahmani and others in Kosova dispute???

Veton Surroi will probably be heading up the provincial Kosovo leadership once autonomy is reinstated and this US game comes to an end. He is the smartest K-ALbanian and he knows there is no independence out of Serbia but autonomy and he is probably the only one acceptable to Belgrade. He's hedging his bets. The days of Thaci, Haridinaj, Sejdiu and Ceku are coming to an end. Its a question of where they get granted asylum.

The albanian camp still doesn't get it. The us does not rule the world. Everyone knows the historical list of failures and the list of current failures. The so-called "Kosova foreign minister" claimed that a wave of recognitions will occur before the ICJ vote. Let's see how many recognitions occur in the next three days. He left New York when the GA president told him to get lost. Big party in Chicago after the ICJ vote.

Hello,

Veton Surroi says "many countries" will support Serbia's ICJ initiative at the UN General Assembly. Is this statement supposed to surprise anyone? The ICJ was created and put into place in order to have a ruling body to look over controversial issues and illegalities that have been compromised by countries. When there is a question regarding whether international law has been broken every initiative brought forth to the UN has the legal obligation to be brought forth to the ICJ body for an appropriate ruling. International Law needs to be respected by all countries. No Super-Power is greater than International Law!

I hear many Serbs hear saying stolen, thefts, criminals etc... I guess it is only a privilege of the Serbs since every time I write I get cut by b92.

My post was ending with:

However, Koosva was STOLEN to Albanians after the WW1 and the world is full of thefts- hence Surroi’s prediction is not really a rocket science.

The battle is how to defeat the thefts- or at least contain them

Please, do not cut my posts or cut to everyone’s- you publish Mickey mousses here and other banalities...

Ataman- you were not welcomed 30 years ago and you will NOT be welcomed even today. people like you are simply NOT welcomed. period.

Jovan,

The little story. We were traveling North from Ohrid Folklore Festival. It was 1980. I speak several languages, but both Russian and Hungarian at mother-tongue level, it's rather a coincidence tough. Some people have odd lives, parents working in different countries, etc. You know. This "Russian" thing turned to be crucial. And my ignorance, too.

The most exiting performance at the Ohrid Festival was the Albanian team. It was not common to see "True" Albanians outside of their country and they really were spectacular. After the performance we were looking for Albo LP-s (still have it somewhere!) and what you have to know, we had pretty little money, so we REALLY spent quite a bit on Albo stuff. We were really expecting somewhat great: we already knew, many Albanians live in Kosovo. But being young and having travel books which said only good things caught us unprepared.

"Armed" with all Albo-ethnic things we did buy plus the "Panoráma: Jugoszlávia" guide in Hungarian (where everything in Bother Socialist Country was super-duper and happy), we were on the Skopje-Prizren bus (because we wanted to see Bogorodica Levishka, of course). That bus was a bad luck. Two Slavic(?)/Albanian(?) villagers, one was a lady and an other was a guy begun to quarrel and at one point the lady called the guy "SH**R", just straight, without the "Q". I did not know, it's a swearword till that moment and we were surprised to see, the guy slapped the woman face with full force, her nose was bleeding. We were outraged, of course, but to our surprise no one else was. The passengers looked scared and intimidated. We concluded, there is somewhat wrong there, if just saying "Shquiptar" without "qu" does make such reaction and people find it normal! Try to slap a woman's face in public in Europe or USA and you are in deep doo-doo.

Arriving Prizren was not any better (for us). I tried to ask directions, food, etc. (in RUSSIAN!) and the reaction was unspeakable. Finally we found the church, made pictures, etc.

Than we wanted to spend the day in the city (Prizren) and I was looking for the hotel. I was told at a friendly looking hotel, to take my butt out of the city. Just that. Imagine, you going into an empty hotel, some Albanians sit around, you ask, they tell you a very rude way, that hotel is not for you. We visited Grachanica after Prizren, than took the bus straight out of Kosovo, towards Studenica. After a while things begun to look normal. Where we seen people in white hats, everything was pretty hostile towards us on the streets. We had even trouble to find vendors who would sell us food. We figured out, using German was a better idea, but it's not my fault, I did not realize it instantly and nothing like that was in the Hungarian book. What it was there, was some happy Albanians supposed to live with happy Slavic population and everything is great and cheerful. We found some not-so-happy Slavs and very hostile (towards us) Albanians instead.

We don't care what you or UN or ICJ saying.
EU UK USA are our friends and our leaders.
(rocky, 6 October 2008 20:15)

Let me re-word this statement a bit:

"We do not want to settle our dispute with Slavs, we don't care about international law. We are on remote control and the remote control unit is somewhere in Brussels, London, Washington DC. They lead us, we do what they ask"

Correct?

"And a while ago I was pro-Albanian. Until I visited Kosovo.
(Ataman, 6 October 2008 16:44)"

quite interesting, Ataman, that´s exactly what virtually EVERY western individual who was in our southern province told me when I asked him about his or her opinion!

I would really be interested to hear the reasons why you changed your mind, since you say you did so after visiting Kosovo.

then it won´t be international law that made you change your mind, it must be something else, bound to your stay there.

again, I think it would be very interesting to read your opinion about that.

sincerely,
Jovan

I got lot of respect for the man, but i disagree strongly when he says:
should Serbia's resolution gain the support at the UN, many countries will wait for the International Court of Justice's decision.
In my opinion if it takes the ICJ two years to decide, many country's by then will recognise Kosova, effectively making the the decision irrelevant,and also keeping in mind that,that's what it is an opinion no more no less.Whichever way the decision goes it has no political clout whatsoever.Bottom line changes nothing. Thanks

go to a Flemish side of Belgium and speak in French
(ben, 7 October 2008 14:46)

Already happened. We enjoyed the reastuarants.
I even spoke German in Netherlands - that's even worse. And we got a hotel without problem.

How many times you were in Belgium?

go in Tbilisi and exercise your Russian if you prefer
(ben, 7 October 2008 14:46)

Been in Tbilisi, Ben? AFAIK, they won't even give you a visa. Or accept your passport. But if you won't mind to use a Serbian one - no problem to cross the border. Than, you will experience, there are rarely better hosts on this planet, than Georgians. A picture is better, than 1000 words - but a movie is even better.

Just for you, to practice your Russian - here is the movie. Russian is widely used in Georgia and once you are their host, they don't care about your ethnic background.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YH6LATK_7Ig

Yummy!

(These Georgians speak WHAT kind of language for the camera?)

After proving, in Georgia you can actually get "khinkali" dumplings if you speak Russian, I have to 100% agree with you on one thing:

"why I am wasting my time writing this..."
(ben, 7 October 2008 14:46)

Indeed, Ben. I am puzzled about that.

Ataman,

Your story regarding Kosmet in the late 70s early 80s is not unusual. While doing my research on the Yugoslav Civil War (Slovenia) for my final year thesis in university I interviewed ex JNA soldiers, officers and policemen who served in Kosmet and all over Yugo. what they told me about the place is unprintable. A Slovene chap who served for years in the JNA, now lives in Belgrade served in Kosmet in the late 70s (1978 - around time I was born incidentally) told me in unflattering terms what he thought of the locals and the outright hostility he encountered amoungst the ethnic Albanian population.

Now dont get me wrong, I have some wonderful K-Albanian friends, good drinking buddies but this guy's expereince, a conscript opened my eyes. He told me how they could not leave the barracks at night and frequently instructed non Albanian motorists not to drive around at night. When finishing his tour of duty there he was ordered by his commanding officer not to breath a word about it when he got out. Even back then during Tito and when Slobo was nothing but a penpushing cashier at a Belgrade bank this crap was still going on.

Unbelievable. Here's a link of old newspaper articles from Kosmet circa early 80s.
http://members.tripod.com/sarant_2/ksm.html

We don't care what you or UN or ICJ saying.
EU UK USA are our friends and our leaders.

We don't care what you or UN or ICJ saying.
EU UK USA are our friends and our leaders.
(rocky, 6 October 2008 20:15)

Let me re-word this statement a bit:

"We do not want to settle our dispute with Slavs, we don't care about international law. We are on remote control and the remote control unit is somewhere in Brussels, London, Washington DC. They lead us, we do what they ask"

Correct?
(Ataman, 6 October 2008 23:25

Yes Ataman C O R R E C T

It is time that B92 stops losing my posts.

Attaman & (Niall O'Doherty, 7 October 2008 11:22)

beside the old pathetic clichés and ordinary exaggerations of the Serbian propaganda you still fail to understand a simple thing:

you are describing exactly what ALL of us say for days and years here.

WE ARE ALBANIANS AND WE NEVER WANTED TO BE IN YUGO/SERBIA. NEVER- EVER.

You go in Kosova and speak Russian you interview a JNA officer and you get the same answer- KOSOVA IS NOT SERBIA. period.

This guy goes and asks a JNA officer a repression institution par excellence of the Albanian identity in Kosova and wonders why Albanians were hostile to this poor and innocent officer- just can't believe it- actually why I am wasting my time writing this...

What's there so hard to understand???

P.S. go to a Flemish side of Belgium and speak in French, or Attaman go in Tbilisi and exercise your Russian if you prefer and than post micky mossous and ohoto montages on "bad" Georgians

Yes Ataman C O R R E C T
(rocky London, 7 October 2008 05:22)

Thanks, Rocky. This is your choice of course. In this case I have only two more questions:

1) What are you doing here on this web site? Wouldn't be it more productive for you to be in some military or sabotage training camp instead to wage a WERBAL war on this web site? You are really wasting your time here with losers like us. Maybe youtube is a better channel to express your opinion.

A quick link:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JlNQlZIKj0U

Tey are missing your future comments. We probably not missing theirs or yours. But the music is good and some pictures funny. :)

2) Do you expect Serbs to think the same way or you rather prefer if they give you some concessions and back from their stance?

Unbelievable. Here's a link of old newspaper articles from Kosmet circa early 80s.
(Niall O'Doherty, 7 October 2008 11:22)

Yes, Niall,

I am thinking, the ethnic issue is just a (perhaps small) part of the picture. Look at the hatred, violence, literally bloodthirst EVERY opinion which is not as expected is met here.

How they want that "tolerant society" to be built, if it's OK in their opinion to be openly hostile to tourists who by mistake speak Russian and to JNA recruits who are ethnic Slovenians.

There is nothing "European" in that, it's medieval bigotry at it's worst. Maybe the best is to let them travel to Europe and USA as much as they like. They are probably full of frustrated young people who cannot see the world and for every problem they have, Serbs are the "guilty" ones. Hopefully one day the intellectuals in Pristina will have more to say than criminals from KLA/UCK

I hear many Serbs hear saying stolen, thefts, criminals etc... I guess it is only a privilege of the Serbs since every time I write I get cut by b92.

My post was ending with:

However, Koosva was STOLEN to Albanians after the WW1 and the world is full of thefts- hence Surroi’s prediction is not really a rocket science.

The battle is how to defeat the thefts- or at least contain them

Please, do not cut my posts or cut to everyone’s- you publish Mickey mousses here and other banalities...

Ataman- you were not welcomed 30 years ago and you will NOT be welcomed even today. people like you are simply NOT welcomed. period.

Every time I hear Surroi speaking I am reminded of the fact of how thrilling democracy Kosova is. This is not land issue for Kosovars it is FREEDOM at stake and yet they can speak freely!

Can you find any such statements in the Serbian camp??? What's the difference between Tadic, Kostunica, Nikolic and others in Kosova dispute??? NONE!!!

They ARE ALL IN BUNKERS.

I got lot of respect for the man, but i disagree strongly when he says:
should Serbia's resolution gain the support at the UN, many countries will wait for the International Court of Justice's decision.
In my opinion if it takes the ICJ two years to decide, many country's by then will recognise Kosova, effectively making the the decision irrelevant,and also keeping in mind that,that's what it is an opinion no more no less.Whichever way the decision goes it has no political clout whatsoever.Bottom line changes nothing. Thanks

They ARE ALL IN BUNKERS.
(ben, 6 October 2008 12:44)

Ben, I think it is you who are living in a bunker. Reality is slowly creeping up onto 'Team Kosova'. Its back to the table for constructive jaw-jaw.

I am reminded of the fact of how thrilling democracy Kosova is.
(ben, 6 October 2008 12:44)

It was indeed thrilling to visit Kosovo for us back in 1980. Want to know details? Some of you guys are really "thrilling". I may try it again soon - to see what changed... "Democracy"... why not "cleptocracy"/"gangstercracy"?

---------

This is not land issue for Kosovars it is FREEDOM at stake and yet they can speak freely!
(ben, 6 October 2008 12:44)

Not in Serbian language tough and your guests are not allowed to speak to you in any Slavic language to be safe. This is the Kosovo-"FREEDOM". Shame on that.

---------

Can you find any such statements in the Serbian camp???
(ben, 6 October 2008 12:44)

Of course, many debates, many different opinions.

---------

What's the difference between Tadic, Kostunica, Nikolic and others in Kosova dispute??? NONE!!!
(ben, 6 October 2008 12:44)

Please read what they say/write again. There are significant differences in their views how to achieve the stability and prosperity. Some of their views are IMO straight wrong, some not. Ask 20 people, they will have 40 opinions on that. It is not easy.

---------

They ARE ALL IN BUNKERS.
(ben, 6 October 2008 12:44)

Bunkers were indeed built in certain small European country in big number. To fight China, Soviet Union, USA, Yugoslavia, Greece, Space Alians. But it proved to be a contra-productive measure.

---------


To Roberto, if he does read: here is a good sample of me being probably to offensive. But this is a reaction to a poster who just throwing dirt at the wall, with the hope, some of it does stick. And unlike the OP I can back everything what I say. Even if my words aren't pleasant.

To Ben: don't like what I say? You are right. Than stop throwing dirt at the wall. Not just nothing will stick to it, but much will fly back - and at higher speed because for everything I write I have a good number of links to back my writing. Except, of course, there is no record how AS FOREIGN TOURISTS we were treated in Kosovo 30 years ago - just my memories.

Thanks for understanding. And imagine. One day you won't throw that dirt. And nothing will fly back! Just polite chit-chat about politics and "agree to disagree". How about that?

ben,

the word democracy surely originates from Illyrian language but nevertheless, even you should know about the statements given in the thrilling democracy of Serbia by Čedomir Jovanović and LDP about the Kosovo dispute. They have long time spoken – freely – for the independent Kosovo.

I also think you should do your homeworks before you appear here asking about the "difference between Tadic, Kostunica, Nikolic and others in Kosova dispute".

You can warm up by answering me: What's the difference between Sejdiu, Thaci, Krasniqi, Gashi, Ceku, Haradinaj, Daci, Rahmani and others in Kosova dispute???

We don't care what you or UN or ICJ saying.
EU UK USA are our friends and our leaders.

am I reading this correctly, he is really talking of a "wave"???

:)

poor guy, actually he is not poor, he earned a lot of bucks at expense of the K-albanians.
perhaps that is the reason he is saying something like that...

Veton Surroi will probably be heading up the provincial Kosovo leadership once autonomy is reinstated and this US game comes to an end. He is the smartest K-ALbanian and he knows there is no independence out of Serbia but autonomy and he is probably the only one acceptable to Belgrade. He's hedging his bets. The days of Thaci, Haridinaj, Sejdiu and Ceku are coming to an end. Its a question of where they get granted asylum.

Its good that Surroi is injecting a bit of realism into the debate on the Albanian side. I know with the general immaturity of Kosovo Albanian politicians he sees it as his mission to underplay in order to counter exaggerated expectations.

But Ben's comments are simply laughable. In Serbia there are all kinds of opinions, Serbian society is not noted for absence of debate, quite the opposite. LDP may be a small party, nevertheless it is a parliamentary one and the NGO's they are allied with are not uninfluential, at least on international policymakers.

Suffice to say there are serious differences of opinion between all the Serbian politicians you mentioned and any half intelligent reader of this site would know that Serbs can often be at each others throats on what they believe is best for Kosovo / Serbia. Hardly the same policy.

In all seriousness I'd be absolutely delighted if Kosovo Albanian society had as much debate on a variety of issues. I'd be delighted if for example Kosovo Albanians who supported Yugoslavia could speak freely without being accused of treachery or similar - and I'm not talking about politicians who have since 'awakened' either!

Quite the contrary, the thing that worries me about Kosovo society is the lack of debate. But I'm hoping this is slowly changing.

The albanian camp still doesn't get it. The us does not rule the world. Everyone knows the historical list of failures and the list of current failures. The so-called "Kosova foreign minister" claimed that a wave of recognitions will occur before the ICJ vote. Let's see how many recognitions occur in the next three days. He left New York when the GA president told him to get lost. Big party in Chicago after the ICJ vote.

But I'm hoping this is slowly changing.
(bganon, 6 October 2008 15:18)

Very slowly. See Ben's comments. They have lightyears to go.

Veton Surroi will probably be heading up the provincial Kosovo leadership once autonomy is reinstated and this US game comes to an end. He is the smartest K-ALbanian and he knows there is no independence out of Serbia but autonomy and he is probably the only one acceptable to Belgrade. He's hedging his bets. The days of Thaci, Haridinaj, Sejdiu and Ceku are coming to an end. Its a question of where they get granted asylum.
(Obvious, 6 October 2008 14:47)

The term 'you hit the nail on the head' was invented for you. I have been reading the statements of the various K-Albanian politicians over the last couple of years. Their statements have ranged from the downright ridicolous to self delusional. Surroi is the exception and is a breath of fresh air to the incessant clap-trap coming from Sejdiu and Thaci.

Surroi being a member of Pristina's chattering classes gives you an indication of the murmurings of the intelligentsia in the province. Reality is slowly dawning that the only way out of deadlock is to get back to the table and start engaging in a constructive jaw-jaw with Belgrade.

Surroi is not the only one expressing reservations about the Pristina leadership. There are many others including the ordinary Agim and Artan on main street but are too scared to speak out.

To sum up Ben's words, "what a thrilling democracy 'Kosova' is".

Ataman- you were not welcomed 30 years ago and you will NOT be welcomed even today. people like you are simply NOT welcomed. period.
(ben, 6 October 2008 14:39)

Nice words, Ben. Speaks well about your attitude. So you will stay with your AK-47 and aim at every American around you can see? You know, because I am not Serb. And a while ago I was pro-Albanian. Until I visited Kosovo.

"And a while ago I was pro-Albanian. Until I visited Kosovo.
(Ataman, 6 October 2008 16:44)"

quite interesting, Ataman, that´s exactly what virtually EVERY western individual who was in our southern province told me when I asked him about his or her opinion!

I would really be interested to hear the reasons why you changed your mind, since you say you did so after visiting Kosovo.

then it won´t be international law that made you change your mind, it must be something else, bound to your stay there.

again, I think it would be very interesting to read your opinion about that.

sincerely,
Jovan

Jovan,

The little story. We were traveling North from Ohrid Folklore Festival. It was 1980. I speak several languages, but both Russian and Hungarian at mother-tongue level, it's rather a coincidence tough. Some people have odd lives, parents working in different countries, etc. You know. This "Russian" thing turned to be crucial. And my ignorance, too.

The most exiting performance at the Ohrid Festival was the Albanian team. It was not common to see "True" Albanians outside of their country and they really were spectacular. After the performance we were looking for Albo LP-s (still have it somewhere!) and what you have to know, we had pretty little money, so we REALLY spent quite a bit on Albo stuff. We were really expecting somewhat great: we already knew, many Albanians live in Kosovo. But being young and having travel books which said only good things caught us unprepared.

"Armed" with all Albo-ethnic things we did buy plus the "Panoráma: Jugoszlávia" guide in Hungarian (where everything in Bother Socialist Country was super-duper and happy), we were on the Skopje-Prizren bus (because we wanted to see Bogorodica Levishka, of course). That bus was a bad luck. Two Slavic(?)/Albanian(?) villagers, one was a lady and an other was a guy begun to quarrel and at one point the lady called the guy "SH**R", just straight, without the "Q". I did not know, it's a swearword till that moment and we were surprised to see, the guy slapped the woman face with full force, her nose was bleeding. We were outraged, of course, but to our surprise no one else was. The passengers looked scared and intimidated. We concluded, there is somewhat wrong there, if just saying "Shquiptar" without "qu" does make such reaction and people find it normal! Try to slap a woman's face in public in Europe or USA and you are in deep doo-doo.

Arriving Prizren was not any better (for us). I tried to ask directions, food, etc. (in RUSSIAN!) and the reaction was unspeakable. Finally we found the church, made pictures, etc.

Than we wanted to spend the day in the city (Prizren) and I was looking for the hotel. I was told at a friendly looking hotel, to take my butt out of the city. Just that. Imagine, you going into an empty hotel, some Albanians sit around, you ask, they tell you a very rude way, that hotel is not for you. We visited Grachanica after Prizren, than took the bus straight out of Kosovo, towards Studenica. After a while things begun to look normal. Where we seen people in white hats, everything was pretty hostile towards us on the streets. We had even trouble to find vendors who would sell us food. We figured out, using German was a better idea, but it's not my fault, I did not realize it instantly and nothing like that was in the Hungarian book. What it was there, was some happy Albanians supposed to live with happy Slavic population and everything is great and cheerful. We found some not-so-happy Slavs and very hostile (towards us) Albanians instead.

We don't care what you or UN or ICJ saying.
EU UK USA are our friends and our leaders.
(rocky, 6 October 2008 20:15)

Let me re-word this statement a bit:

"We do not want to settle our dispute with Slavs, we don't care about international law. We are on remote control and the remote control unit is somewhere in Brussels, London, Washington DC. They lead us, we do what they ask"

Correct?

Hello,

Veton Surroi says "many countries" will support Serbia's ICJ initiative at the UN General Assembly. Is this statement supposed to surprise anyone? The ICJ was created and put into place in order to have a ruling body to look over controversial issues and illegalities that have been compromised by countries. When there is a question regarding whether international law has been broken every initiative brought forth to the UN has the legal obligation to be brought forth to the ICJ body for an appropriate ruling. International Law needs to be respected by all countries. No Super-Power is greater than International Law!

We don't care what you or UN or ICJ saying.
EU UK USA are our friends and our leaders.
(rocky, 6 October 2008 20:15)

Let me re-word this statement a bit:

"We do not want to settle our dispute with Slavs, we don't care about international law. We are on remote control and the remote control unit is somewhere in Brussels, London, Washington DC. They lead us, we do what they ask"

Correct?
(Ataman, 6 October 2008 23:25

Yes Ataman C O R R E C T

Ataman,

Your story regarding Kosmet in the late 70s early 80s is not unusual. While doing my research on the Yugoslav Civil War (Slovenia) for my final year thesis in university I interviewed ex JNA soldiers, officers and policemen who served in Kosmet and all over Yugo. what they told me about the place is unprintable. A Slovene chap who served for years in the JNA, now lives in Belgrade served in Kosmet in the late 70s (1978 - around time I was born incidentally) told me in unflattering terms what he thought of the locals and the outright hostility he encountered amoungst the ethnic Albanian population.

Now dont get me wrong, I have some wonderful K-Albanian friends, good drinking buddies but this guy's expereince, a conscript opened my eyes. He told me how they could not leave the barracks at night and frequently instructed non Albanian motorists not to drive around at night. When finishing his tour of duty there he was ordered by his commanding officer not to breath a word about it when he got out. Even back then during Tito and when Slobo was nothing but a penpushing cashier at a Belgrade bank this crap was still going on.

Unbelievable. Here's a link of old newspaper articles from Kosmet circa early 80s.
http://members.tripod.com/sarant_2/ksm.html

It is time that B92 stops losing my posts.

Attaman & (Niall O'Doherty, 7 October 2008 11:22)

beside the old pathetic clichés and ordinary exaggerations of the Serbian propaganda you still fail to understand a simple thing:

you are describing exactly what ALL of us say for days and years here.

WE ARE ALBANIANS AND WE NEVER WANTED TO BE IN YUGO/SERBIA. NEVER- EVER.

You go in Kosova and speak Russian you interview a JNA officer and you get the same answer- KOSOVA IS NOT SERBIA. period.

This guy goes and asks a JNA officer a repression institution par excellence of the Albanian identity in Kosova and wonders why Albanians were hostile to this poor and innocent officer- just can't believe it- actually why I am wasting my time writing this...

What's there so hard to understand???

P.S. go to a Flemish side of Belgium and speak in French, or Attaman go in Tbilisi and exercise your Russian if you prefer and than post micky mossous and ohoto montages on "bad" Georgians

Yes Ataman C O R R E C T
(rocky London, 7 October 2008 05:22)

Thanks, Rocky. This is your choice of course. In this case I have only two more questions:

1) What are you doing here on this web site? Wouldn't be it more productive for you to be in some military or sabotage training camp instead to wage a WERBAL war on this web site? You are really wasting your time here with losers like us. Maybe youtube is a better channel to express your opinion.

A quick link:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JlNQlZIKj0U

Tey are missing your future comments. We probably not missing theirs or yours. But the music is good and some pictures funny. :)

2) Do you expect Serbs to think the same way or you rather prefer if they give you some concessions and back from their stance?

go to a Flemish side of Belgium and speak in French
(ben, 7 October 2008 14:46)

Already happened. We enjoyed the reastuarants.
I even spoke German in Netherlands - that's even worse. And we got a hotel without problem.

How many times you were in Belgium?

go in Tbilisi and exercise your Russian if you prefer
(ben, 7 October 2008 14:46)

Been in Tbilisi, Ben? AFAIK, they won't even give you a visa. Or accept your passport. But if you won't mind to use a Serbian one - no problem to cross the border. Than, you will experience, there are rarely better hosts on this planet, than Georgians. A picture is better, than 1000 words - but a movie is even better.

Just for you, to practice your Russian - here is the movie. Russian is widely used in Georgia and once you are their host, they don't care about your ethnic background.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YH6LATK_7Ig

Yummy!

(These Georgians speak WHAT kind of language for the camera?)

After proving, in Georgia you can actually get "khinkali" dumplings if you speak Russian, I have to 100% agree with you on one thing:

"why I am wasting my time writing this..."
(ben, 7 October 2008 14:46)

Indeed, Ben. I am puzzled about that.

Unbelievable. Here's a link of old newspaper articles from Kosmet circa early 80s.
(Niall O'Doherty, 7 October 2008 11:22)

Yes, Niall,

I am thinking, the ethnic issue is just a (perhaps small) part of the picture. Look at the hatred, violence, literally bloodthirst EVERY opinion which is not as expected is met here.

How they want that "tolerant society" to be built, if it's OK in their opinion to be openly hostile to tourists who by mistake speak Russian and to JNA recruits who are ethnic Slovenians.

There is nothing "European" in that, it's medieval bigotry at it's worst. Maybe the best is to let them travel to Europe and USA as much as they like. They are probably full of frustrated young people who cannot see the world and for every problem they have, Serbs are the "guilty" ones. Hopefully one day the intellectuals in Pristina will have more to say than criminals from KLA/UCK