Anniversary of Milošević ouster

Those protesters fought hard for real change than, but i am afraid nothing changed for Serbia still the same still a big destabilising factor in Europe still stuck in the past.Ta

First of all, Kostunica did not win over 50% in the first round in 2000. Therefore a second round must have been called. They did not want to, because they knew that they will lose. They preferred to violate the democratic process, and were trained by the CIA. Not only was DOS trained, but so was that OTPOR group.




Grusina, the serbs did lose in Croatia, yes. But Serbia did not lose in Croatia. There is a big difference between Krajina and Serbia. As for Bosnia... Serbia also did not lose, and the Serbs won because R.S> became a recognized entity. You speak of the country being plundered... man, life was better in Serbia in 1998 than it was in neighboring countries. Your post is only made to provocate and cause trouble. Why are you here if your only intention is to cause trouble?

Well,
Oct.5.2000, A lost war in Croatia, a lost war in Bosnia. Lost war and withdrawal from Kosovo.
A bombed country, small as never before with a devastated economy, plundered by Milosevic and other Serb "heroes".
In any term after the game was already over. Dear Serbs, you should have raise your voices as Milosevic was strong and doing much harm,
Instead you overturned a man who was already "dead" for long. Its the Croats, Bosnians and Albanians who did, what was the duty of your democratic civil society!
Serbia never broke with Milosevic policies.

1)
Instead you overturned a man who was already "dead" for long.
(Grusina, 5 October 2008 11:58)

Those protesters fought hard for real change than
(Viti i Balit, 5 October 2008 12:44)

You guys should discuss first what to write, otherwise it's just amusing.

2)
Its the Croats, Bosnians and Albanians who did, what was the duty of your democratic civil society!
(Grusina, 5 October 2008 11:58)

Nothing new here, we already agreed few days ago, Albanians are to credit with everything, they were all over Malta, Jerusalem, Sumer, India. Jesus Christ, Muhammad and Buddha were all Albanians.

OK, now comes the REAL THING.

Serbia still the same still a big destabilising factor in Europe still stuck in the past.
(Viti i Balit, 5 October 2008 12:44)

a) Yes, of course, that UDI All because Serb "destabilizations". What did they "destabilize"? To resist thieves and murderers like these?

http://tinyurl.com/4nz5rc

Is it a fake picture or true?

b) These backwards Serbs are stuck to clans, to the feudal-age "Kanuni i Lek Dukagjinit" blood feuds -

http://tinyurl.com/3gow4a - see #2

an in addition to that, do not want to disarm.

http://tinyurl.com/5y549y - see #4.

Seriously, do you guys think you are ripe for E.U. membership in this century under such conditions? How do you think I am going to vote? It does not take long to see Albanian comments being contradicting each other - just read this B92 for few days and wonder, who is writing all that.

Not a single sign of goodwill, only more and more demands and asking for more blood.

BTW, just for your information: I am not Serb at all. Long ago I was visiting Kosovo with open heart as a tourist and you guys broke all your "Kanuni" laws regarding how to treat a guest (HOSPITALITY) - just because of my ignorance I tried to speak a broken "Slavic" with you.

Let's see your "Kanun"...

http://www.shkoder.net/en/kanun_en.htm

The most tough violation is the "violation of the property of soul". Correct?
The violation I experienced is the "violation of the public honor" Correct?

Am I right to expect at least an apology? Yes. It NEVER, NEVER, NEVER was expressed, not even now, almost 30 years later.

So don't expect, I will ever vote in your favor. Sorry. :(

The entire thing wasn't a big deal, don't rush now. It just shows...

(and to contrary of most say: I was not biased - you guys made me)

The only destabilizing factor in the balkans are the ultranationalist Albanians that dream of Greater Albania.
Wake up guys we live in 2008 not in 1941!We did it with our nationalists you can do it with yours as well.

Grusina,

You are either truly unaware of the fights that a number of courageous Serbs have fought for truth and progress or you are cynically pretending to be unaware of them, in your belief that doing so you gain morally the upper hand.

As other small people, you rather ignore and deny than support.

at the time, i felt that i was aligned with the "pro-democratic" forces inside serbia
(roberto, 5 October 2008 20:09)

You are aligned with Serbia's torturers, murderers, gangsters today. If you do not see it, it's your problem. Few posts and weeks back, Miri was outraged, why the good part of Kosovo-Albanian leadership was called "criminals". Unfortunately they are. You continue your baseless crusade here - without single proof of your accusations. It is only emotional, I do not see any reason behind your words.

Your words are strong, please prove what you saying. If you cannot - please consider to stop posting. This is very serious.

Here is the list of your sentences. Please prove what you are saying.


Needs to be proven:

I) "since then (and concurrent with it) we have had a succession of nationalist politicians in belgrade, not of the highest caliber, i might add. incl the present one.".

TBD: Please prove, that PRESENT, most influent politicians in Belgrade, i.e. Boris Tadić, Vuk Jeremić, Mirko Cvetković are number one: "not a highest caliber", number two: "nationalist".

Thanks.

II) You write: "but simply point out that being elected in a more or less "fair" election is no guarantee of supporting democratic values. look at russia (and weep.) ". Russia is indeed has a long way to go. We are not talking about Russia either.

TBD: To make it clear for everyone, please list out, what you mean under "democratic value". In that context what you wrote "i will not engage in the endless argument of who or what is democratic" is unacceptable because you perform the "magic", you pull out the rabbit out of the hat - than refuse to specify. If you refuse to specify, than don't pull out your "rabbit". This is sign of weakness, sorry. A side note regarding Russia: with all my disapproval regarding what is happening there, I hope you do not have any respect or nostalgia for "vodkacratic" politicians.

Thanks.

III) You write: "the current belgrade regime continues to club kosovo/a in any and every way it can, with every "democratic (and not so democratic) tool at its disposal, and i am very bitter about that."

TBD: Please explain:
- what you expect from "Belgrade regime" to do with Kosovo to satisfy your expectations.
- what you (i.e. USA) has to do with all the problems, who gave you the mandate to be the judge and under what conditions/circumstances?
- what you expect from Kosovo regime, their leaders (and with regards of their past) to do to meet the expectations of USA, EU, Belgrade.
- why all talk about "supervised independence". Why it has to be supervised? By whom? Why should K-Albanians and Serb trust their "supervisor"?

IV) You write: "the battle for freedom, democracy and independence (those "platitudes") continues, today, oct 8th and beyond."

TBD:

- Please be specific, for freedom from whom?
- Please be specific, what is that "democracy" (again, you straight refused to explain it, but use that word)?
- Please be specific, for independence from whom?
- Please be specific, does that battle really continue and if yes, how and who does fight it?

These are the questions. Please answer satisfactory ( = with links from independent sources like, say, Wiki) to at least one of I)-IV). Wiki is by no means a scientific authority, but at least there is some kind of independency there. But you are free to take any other source which is independent to an accepted degree.

To your last words:

"Completely irrelevant what certain individuals here think of me, my city, religion, whatever. we are all in the struggle for the long haul."

- Who know your city, would agree, it's one of the most pleasant place to live in the States. I know it well, was living near for over 15 years. My choice and family circumstances took me to Central Europe. Being citizen of your country I may return one day.

- Your religion is not a relevant factor. During my life I lived with Jews, Orthodox, Protestants, Buddhists, Catholics, Atheists under same roof. Religion was never a major factor. In honor of all us in our extended "clan" we do celebrate St. Nicholas, Christmas (twice), New Year (twice), Hanukkah, Lunar New Year, all Name Days - and rarely miss the opportunity to greet our friends for "Double Ten". BTW: "Double Ten" is pretty soon, don't forget it!

- I am sure, most your "opponents" think, you are seriously disinformed and not open towards accepting any evidence which would prove some of your views are incorrect. Sometimes it is to extreme. Personally I have no explanation for that. Not sure, would you consider yourself a tolerant person or not.

Of course you are not obligated to prove anything. But as long as there are no visible efforts, your words do not weigh much for your opponents - who happen to be the overwhelming majority here.

Thanks again for understanding.

I am one of thse people who worked, in my own small way, to help bring down this monster. (Otpor -- resist!!, fight back...) at the time i felt that slobo was a blight upon the earth and had to be put out of our collective misery, one way or another. and i still feel that way, that my time and energy were not a total waste.

at the time, i felt that i was aligned with the "pro-democratic" forces inside serbia, at least in spirit. and when djindjic came to power, i did hold out some hope. true, he was no saint, but he was pragmatic and forward-thinking, and who knows exactly what would have happened had he lived. perhaps we wouldn't right now be in such a horrible mess.

but certain forces in serbia made sure to put a quick end to him, and i think we all know who and what i am referring to.

since then (and concurrent with it) we have had a succession of nationalist politicians in belgrade, not of the highest caliber, i might add. incl the present one. i will not engage in the endless argument of who or what is democratic, but simply point out that being elected in a more or less "fair" election is no guarantee of supporting democratic values. look at russia (and weep.)

so yes, like others, i am bitter that my sweat and tears have come to this, at least inside serbia. there are still the wonderful human-rights advocates and intellectuals but they are marginalized, even here. they deserve our fullest support, i repeat every time.

at least there is one difference from those evil days -- full warfare in the balkans has ended (or taken a break), people can try to rebuild their lives, under often very difficult circumstances, but the active horrors have ceased.

and for kosovo/a, they/we have independence, and no more serbian or russian troops, thank god, may they never return, at least in my lifetime.

but serbia, or more to the point, the current belgrade regime continues to club kosovo/a in any and every way it can, with every "democratic (and not so democratic) tool at its disposal, and i am very bitter about that. why did we work so hard to stop slobo, just to be at this point. so there are many mixed feelings here, but the battle for freedom, democracy and independence (those "platitudes") continues, today, oct 8th and beyond. it it completely irrelevant what certain individuals here think of me, my city, religion, whatever. we are all in the struggle for the long haul.

again i thank all of our frnds and allies, incl and esp.ly those inside serbia, and around the world.

prijetna. felamendaret.

roberto
frisco
robertoruss@yahoo.com

Really I dont understand you serbian population you are holding memories of him the man that destroyed serbia and made smaller its a joke.

Ataman -- i have read many, many of your posts (not just skipped over them) and i have to say that a lot of them (not all) engage in not the nicest form of argumentation. i do think it is you who has a very emotional edge, but yes i can also get emotional, and preachy.

i think that nearly all of my postings (many of which are "lost") are articulate, well written (with sloppy caps or lack thereof) and centered. but i cannot POSSibly, each and every time, write full essays with full documentation on each point; even for me, who teaches and tutors in english (and numerous other areas) that is simply too much. it isn't really fair to ask. i think i have made myself abundantly clear, and will continue to.

ataman -- at one time, i did extend an open invitation to serb "moderates" to try to open some dialogue. from my POV, it hasn't worked so very well (here) but i haven't either entirely given up.

personally, i consider many of your postings quite inflammatory and inappropriate. BUT, i did notice one time that you went out of your way to write "This time, roberto is right." i commented at the time about that, but i think that was also "lost." nevermind. it showed me that you do have a reasonable side, and a wish to be taken at least somewhat seriously by the opposition, which though minority here, is surely not minority in the world. anyway, as a person i actually do not enjoy fighting and conflict (i know that no one here will believe me) and i do enjoy talking and trying to just be civil.

i am always pushing for "opponents" (palestinians and jews, germans and jews, albanians and serbs, christians and muslims, etc) to at least try to talk with one another, so i would be a hypocrite if i didn't try to do it here with some individual members of the "opposition."

maybe the trick is to find non-political topics, like... growing roses, or interesting films (i really love film), or world cities and travel... i am 100% serious. agree to disagree (sometimes big-time) about the pressing issues of the day, and focus on less disagreeable topics.

my good frnd fr michigan happened to tell me tonight about her chatroom (i think they are all self-identified CHRISTIANS) and anyway, they are always talking and joking, exchanging email addr's and even phone numbers! guys AND gals. it sounds so cozy and not nearly as alienating as what i so often feel here. so i have had a few personal contacts with other posters, which is nice. why not?

is my time over yet??

cheers.

roberto
this side of the rainbow
robertoruss@yahoo.com

Roberto,

This time they seem to lost my first post, so I try to write you somewhat in that spirit.

I am a techie guy, I do not care that much about "being right" - see later why - but I try to form my opinions backed by some independent source. I am not a "politically correct" person either. This is a "fall-out" due my profession.

It does not apply to you, but some of the posts here do enrage me if they are blatant lies or youtube-style eye-poking. The tactics are "throw as much dirt as you can at the fence, maybe it will stick". Maybe this is the way of debate they use. If I see such thing, I did and will in the future post some comment with sour or bitter humor.

There is not much I would disagree with you, if for my taste you would try to be less one-sided and not lacking solid proof in some cases.

I was under impression, you would like to make me (or others) switch sides to support your case. Fine, I am ready to do, but you need some evidence strong enough to convince a "techie". Not full essays, but references (links) to evidence.

As starting point, let's reduce strongly the number of questions worth to debate:

1) "Who really are the Serbs in your opinion today, what makes a Serb being a Serb". This is important, because if you say "In late 2008 Serbia still tortures Kosovo" and assuming for the moment "Kosovo = Albanians = Illyrians = Dardanians", I would like to clarify, what "Serbia" does mean. Serbs themself disagree on "Who is Serb", so what you think?

2) Please explain, why Boris Tadić, Vuk Jeremić, Mirko Cvetković are "not a highest caliber" and "nationalist". But first, we need to know, who are the Serbs in order to understand, who are the "nationalists" and why certain people are.

Regarding the phone numbers, private data, meetings, etc: this is a political forum. Under current climate (see Ben's recent postings) I would rather keep the privacy. Who knows, what they are up to. I went there long ago with high expectation - and got the taste of their "hospitality" in exchange for friendliness. That wasn't to bad, but provided some hints what can happen if the circumstances are unfortunate. You were more fortunate than us. Some of us are maybe paranoic, but you being on "Albanian" side are in much easier position. All I can say, I am probably not the person you envision. I am just a techie armed with some logic, that's it. You are welcome to prove, that logic is not good.

Well,
Oct.5.2000, A lost war in Croatia, a lost war in Bosnia. Lost war and withdrawal from Kosovo.
A bombed country, small as never before with a devastated economy, plundered by Milosevic and other Serb "heroes".
In any term after the game was already over. Dear Serbs, you should have raise your voices as Milosevic was strong and doing much harm,
Instead you overturned a man who was already "dead" for long. Its the Croats, Bosnians and Albanians who did, what was the duty of your democratic civil society!
Serbia never broke with Milosevic policies.

Those protesters fought hard for real change than, but i am afraid nothing changed for Serbia still the same still a big destabilising factor in Europe still stuck in the past.Ta

I am one of thse people who worked, in my own small way, to help bring down this monster. (Otpor -- resist!!, fight back...) at the time i felt that slobo was a blight upon the earth and had to be put out of our collective misery, one way or another. and i still feel that way, that my time and energy were not a total waste.

at the time, i felt that i was aligned with the "pro-democratic" forces inside serbia, at least in spirit. and when djindjic came to power, i did hold out some hope. true, he was no saint, but he was pragmatic and forward-thinking, and who knows exactly what would have happened had he lived. perhaps we wouldn't right now be in such a horrible mess.

but certain forces in serbia made sure to put a quick end to him, and i think we all know who and what i am referring to.

since then (and concurrent with it) we have had a succession of nationalist politicians in belgrade, not of the highest caliber, i might add. incl the present one. i will not engage in the endless argument of who or what is democratic, but simply point out that being elected in a more or less "fair" election is no guarantee of supporting democratic values. look at russia (and weep.)

so yes, like others, i am bitter that my sweat and tears have come to this, at least inside serbia. there are still the wonderful human-rights advocates and intellectuals but they are marginalized, even here. they deserve our fullest support, i repeat every time.

at least there is one difference from those evil days -- full warfare in the balkans has ended (or taken a break), people can try to rebuild their lives, under often very difficult circumstances, but the active horrors have ceased.

and for kosovo/a, they/we have independence, and no more serbian or russian troops, thank god, may they never return, at least in my lifetime.

but serbia, or more to the point, the current belgrade regime continues to club kosovo/a in any and every way it can, with every "democratic (and not so democratic) tool at its disposal, and i am very bitter about that. why did we work so hard to stop slobo, just to be at this point. so there are many mixed feelings here, but the battle for freedom, democracy and independence (those "platitudes") continues, today, oct 8th and beyond. it it completely irrelevant what certain individuals here think of me, my city, religion, whatever. we are all in the struggle for the long haul.

again i thank all of our frnds and allies, incl and esp.ly those inside serbia, and around the world.

prijetna. felamendaret.

roberto
frisco
robertoruss@yahoo.com

Really I dont understand you serbian population you are holding memories of him the man that destroyed serbia and made smaller its a joke.

The only destabilizing factor in the balkans are the ultranationalist Albanians that dream of Greater Albania.
Wake up guys we live in 2008 not in 1941!We did it with our nationalists you can do it with yours as well.

Ataman -- i have read many, many of your posts (not just skipped over them) and i have to say that a lot of them (not all) engage in not the nicest form of argumentation. i do think it is you who has a very emotional edge, but yes i can also get emotional, and preachy.

i think that nearly all of my postings (many of which are "lost") are articulate, well written (with sloppy caps or lack thereof) and centered. but i cannot POSSibly, each and every time, write full essays with full documentation on each point; even for me, who teaches and tutors in english (and numerous other areas) that is simply too much. it isn't really fair to ask. i think i have made myself abundantly clear, and will continue to.

ataman -- at one time, i did extend an open invitation to serb "moderates" to try to open some dialogue. from my POV, it hasn't worked so very well (here) but i haven't either entirely given up.

personally, i consider many of your postings quite inflammatory and inappropriate. BUT, i did notice one time that you went out of your way to write "This time, roberto is right." i commented at the time about that, but i think that was also "lost." nevermind. it showed me that you do have a reasonable side, and a wish to be taken at least somewhat seriously by the opposition, which though minority here, is surely not minority in the world. anyway, as a person i actually do not enjoy fighting and conflict (i know that no one here will believe me) and i do enjoy talking and trying to just be civil.

i am always pushing for "opponents" (palestinians and jews, germans and jews, albanians and serbs, christians and muslims, etc) to at least try to talk with one another, so i would be a hypocrite if i didn't try to do it here with some individual members of the "opposition."

maybe the trick is to find non-political topics, like... growing roses, or interesting films (i really love film), or world cities and travel... i am 100% serious. agree to disagree (sometimes big-time) about the pressing issues of the day, and focus on less disagreeable topics.

my good frnd fr michigan happened to tell me tonight about her chatroom (i think they are all self-identified CHRISTIANS) and anyway, they are always talking and joking, exchanging email addr's and even phone numbers! guys AND gals. it sounds so cozy and not nearly as alienating as what i so often feel here. so i have had a few personal contacts with other posters, which is nice. why not?

is my time over yet??

cheers.

roberto
this side of the rainbow
robertoruss@yahoo.com

First of all, Kostunica did not win over 50% in the first round in 2000. Therefore a second round must have been called. They did not want to, because they knew that they will lose. They preferred to violate the democratic process, and were trained by the CIA. Not only was DOS trained, but so was that OTPOR group.




Grusina, the serbs did lose in Croatia, yes. But Serbia did not lose in Croatia. There is a big difference between Krajina and Serbia. As for Bosnia... Serbia also did not lose, and the Serbs won because R.S> became a recognized entity. You speak of the country being plundered... man, life was better in Serbia in 1998 than it was in neighboring countries. Your post is only made to provocate and cause trouble. Why are you here if your only intention is to cause trouble?

1)
Instead you overturned a man who was already "dead" for long.
(Grusina, 5 October 2008 11:58)

Those protesters fought hard for real change than
(Viti i Balit, 5 October 2008 12:44)

You guys should discuss first what to write, otherwise it's just amusing.

2)
Its the Croats, Bosnians and Albanians who did, what was the duty of your democratic civil society!
(Grusina, 5 October 2008 11:58)

Nothing new here, we already agreed few days ago, Albanians are to credit with everything, they were all over Malta, Jerusalem, Sumer, India. Jesus Christ, Muhammad and Buddha were all Albanians.

OK, now comes the REAL THING.

Serbia still the same still a big destabilising factor in Europe still stuck in the past.
(Viti i Balit, 5 October 2008 12:44)

a) Yes, of course, that UDI All because Serb "destabilizations". What did they "destabilize"? To resist thieves and murderers like these?

http://tinyurl.com/4nz5rc

Is it a fake picture or true?

b) These backwards Serbs are stuck to clans, to the feudal-age "Kanuni i Lek Dukagjinit" blood feuds -

http://tinyurl.com/3gow4a - see #2

an in addition to that, do not want to disarm.

http://tinyurl.com/5y549y - see #4.

Seriously, do you guys think you are ripe for E.U. membership in this century under such conditions? How do you think I am going to vote? It does not take long to see Albanian comments being contradicting each other - just read this B92 for few days and wonder, who is writing all that.

Not a single sign of goodwill, only more and more demands and asking for more blood.

BTW, just for your information: I am not Serb at all. Long ago I was visiting Kosovo with open heart as a tourist and you guys broke all your "Kanuni" laws regarding how to treat a guest (HOSPITALITY) - just because of my ignorance I tried to speak a broken "Slavic" with you.

Let's see your "Kanun"...

http://www.shkoder.net/en/kanun_en.htm

The most tough violation is the "violation of the property of soul". Correct?
The violation I experienced is the "violation of the public honor" Correct?

Am I right to expect at least an apology? Yes. It NEVER, NEVER, NEVER was expressed, not even now, almost 30 years later.

So don't expect, I will ever vote in your favor. Sorry. :(

The entire thing wasn't a big deal, don't rush now. It just shows...

(and to contrary of most say: I was not biased - you guys made me)

Grusina,

You are either truly unaware of the fights that a number of courageous Serbs have fought for truth and progress or you are cynically pretending to be unaware of them, in your belief that doing so you gain morally the upper hand.

As other small people, you rather ignore and deny than support.

at the time, i felt that i was aligned with the "pro-democratic" forces inside serbia
(roberto, 5 October 2008 20:09)

You are aligned with Serbia's torturers, murderers, gangsters today. If you do not see it, it's your problem. Few posts and weeks back, Miri was outraged, why the good part of Kosovo-Albanian leadership was called "criminals". Unfortunately they are. You continue your baseless crusade here - without single proof of your accusations. It is only emotional, I do not see any reason behind your words.

Your words are strong, please prove what you saying. If you cannot - please consider to stop posting. This is very serious.

Here is the list of your sentences. Please prove what you are saying.


Needs to be proven:

I) "since then (and concurrent with it) we have had a succession of nationalist politicians in belgrade, not of the highest caliber, i might add. incl the present one.".

TBD: Please prove, that PRESENT, most influent politicians in Belgrade, i.e. Boris Tadić, Vuk Jeremić, Mirko Cvetković are number one: "not a highest caliber", number two: "nationalist".

Thanks.

II) You write: "but simply point out that being elected in a more or less "fair" election is no guarantee of supporting democratic values. look at russia (and weep.) ". Russia is indeed has a long way to go. We are not talking about Russia either.

TBD: To make it clear for everyone, please list out, what you mean under "democratic value". In that context what you wrote "i will not engage in the endless argument of who or what is democratic" is unacceptable because you perform the "magic", you pull out the rabbit out of the hat - than refuse to specify. If you refuse to specify, than don't pull out your "rabbit". This is sign of weakness, sorry. A side note regarding Russia: with all my disapproval regarding what is happening there, I hope you do not have any respect or nostalgia for "vodkacratic" politicians.

Thanks.

III) You write: "the current belgrade regime continues to club kosovo/a in any and every way it can, with every "democratic (and not so democratic) tool at its disposal, and i am very bitter about that."

TBD: Please explain:
- what you expect from "Belgrade regime" to do with Kosovo to satisfy your expectations.
- what you (i.e. USA) has to do with all the problems, who gave you the mandate to be the judge and under what conditions/circumstances?
- what you expect from Kosovo regime, their leaders (and with regards of their past) to do to meet the expectations of USA, EU, Belgrade.
- why all talk about "supervised independence". Why it has to be supervised? By whom? Why should K-Albanians and Serb trust their "supervisor"?

IV) You write: "the battle for freedom, democracy and independence (those "platitudes") continues, today, oct 8th and beyond."

TBD:

- Please be specific, for freedom from whom?
- Please be specific, what is that "democracy" (again, you straight refused to explain it, but use that word)?
- Please be specific, for independence from whom?
- Please be specific, does that battle really continue and if yes, how and who does fight it?

These are the questions. Please answer satisfactory ( = with links from independent sources like, say, Wiki) to at least one of I)-IV). Wiki is by no means a scientific authority, but at least there is some kind of independency there. But you are free to take any other source which is independent to an accepted degree.

To your last words:

"Completely irrelevant what certain individuals here think of me, my city, religion, whatever. we are all in the struggle for the long haul."

- Who know your city, would agree, it's one of the most pleasant place to live in the States. I know it well, was living near for over 15 years. My choice and family circumstances took me to Central Europe. Being citizen of your country I may return one day.

- Your religion is not a relevant factor. During my life I lived with Jews, Orthodox, Protestants, Buddhists, Catholics, Atheists under same roof. Religion was never a major factor. In honor of all us in our extended "clan" we do celebrate St. Nicholas, Christmas (twice), New Year (twice), Hanukkah, Lunar New Year, all Name Days - and rarely miss the opportunity to greet our friends for "Double Ten". BTW: "Double Ten" is pretty soon, don't forget it!

- I am sure, most your "opponents" think, you are seriously disinformed and not open towards accepting any evidence which would prove some of your views are incorrect. Sometimes it is to extreme. Personally I have no explanation for that. Not sure, would you consider yourself a tolerant person or not.

Of course you are not obligated to prove anything. But as long as there are no visible efforts, your words do not weigh much for your opponents - who happen to be the overwhelming majority here.

Thanks again for understanding.

Roberto,

This time they seem to lost my first post, so I try to write you somewhat in that spirit.

I am a techie guy, I do not care that much about "being right" - see later why - but I try to form my opinions backed by some independent source. I am not a "politically correct" person either. This is a "fall-out" due my profession.

It does not apply to you, but some of the posts here do enrage me if they are blatant lies or youtube-style eye-poking. The tactics are "throw as much dirt as you can at the fence, maybe it will stick". Maybe this is the way of debate they use. If I see such thing, I did and will in the future post some comment with sour or bitter humor.

There is not much I would disagree with you, if for my taste you would try to be less one-sided and not lacking solid proof in some cases.

I was under impression, you would like to make me (or others) switch sides to support your case. Fine, I am ready to do, but you need some evidence strong enough to convince a "techie". Not full essays, but references (links) to evidence.

As starting point, let's reduce strongly the number of questions worth to debate:

1) "Who really are the Serbs in your opinion today, what makes a Serb being a Serb". This is important, because if you say "In late 2008 Serbia still tortures Kosovo" and assuming for the moment "Kosovo = Albanians = Illyrians = Dardanians", I would like to clarify, what "Serbia" does mean. Serbs themself disagree on "Who is Serb", so what you think?

2) Please explain, why Boris Tadić, Vuk Jeremić, Mirko Cvetković are "not a highest caliber" and "nationalist". But first, we need to know, who are the Serbs in order to understand, who are the "nationalists" and why certain people are.

Regarding the phone numbers, private data, meetings, etc: this is a political forum. Under current climate (see Ben's recent postings) I would rather keep the privacy. Who knows, what they are up to. I went there long ago with high expectation - and got the taste of their "hospitality" in exchange for friendliness. That wasn't to bad, but provided some hints what can happen if the circumstances are unfortunate. You were more fortunate than us. Some of us are maybe paranoic, but you being on "Albanian" side are in much easier position. All I can say, I am probably not the person you envision. I am just a techie armed with some logic, that's it. You are welcome to prove, that logic is not good.