Suva Reka war crimes trial continues

Money to pay for rape and murder is part of Albanian society? What have you been reading? Only death is enough tradition wise. See http://www.shkoder.net/en/kanun_en.htm There is no money in the world that makes up for that. Only blood washes the blood accoring to the Kanuni i Lek Dukagjinit (read about blood feuds) unless they are forgiven. Just to get their revenge entire generations have been caught up in feuds, taking it was a matter of honor.

That is /was the tradition in the North and especially in Kosovo. For rape there is no excuses, women were always excluded from trouble and touching them is the biggest no-no.

It amazes me how little Serbs know about Albanians, especially when they assumed that Serbs police and soldiers would be just coming back after what they have done.

Read about Albania and Albanians before you make bigger mistakes. http://www.nytimes.com/books/first/m/malcolm-kosovo.html

my god how can some people do such a think.... what suprise me the most is why never any serb apoligise to any of the families ot the victims.. live the politics out please... we are talking about civilians here...

many people in serbia dont know what happen in kosovo because milosevic cover so good that people in serbia think most of us albanians are terrorist.... i lived in kosovo under serbia and it was a nightmare... i would not like to see that happen even to my enemy's...

if many serbs where in our shoes they will know what im talking about... they will not know what is like to live in fear off being killed only for being a different nationality.... no matter if you where civilian or old or young....

one day i hope they will undrestand and apoligise to us albanians and we can moove on and live like humans next door to each other...

peace

1) Why is the trial only now? 9 years are gone. Stronger dealing with these criminals from the begin on would improve the relationship with Albanians.

2) Since there is thankfully no death penalty in Serbia, 25 years to each criminal plus confiscating their property to pay of the debt would probably satisfy the justice. Serbs should not make the same mistake like Russians did (and still do) in Chechnya. Who is convicted with worst crime against local population, esp. crime against honor and murder should receive maximum possible sentence to make locals satisfied, not rebelling. Since monetary agreements are part of both Chechen and Albanian society, the courts should not just imprison the criminals for maximum term (life, which could be 25 years without parole), but impose a monetary fine to pay off the survivors. Confiscating homes, cars, etc. sounds justified for me.

Anyway, several 25-year sentences without parole and with property confiscation and no Albanian will call for Hague.

On the other hand, "freedom fighters" like ceku or thaci should be in the same boat (25 years + property confiscation). Than anything in Pristina what looks like a "government" will be better accepted by Serbs.

3) I find the name Ramiz Papic very interesting. Sometimes the worst henchmen are torturing their own. How many Georgians were killed by stalin?

Dashnori,

both of us are right. Probably you did not understand what I wrote. What I mean is there - precisely under the "dorzanët e gjakut" paragraph. For this case, "dorzanët e gjakut" can be applied PARTIALLY because there were both adult male victims (eligible for "dorzanët e gjakut") and children/female victims (not eligible).

Since death penalty is out of question (we are talking about 21st Century and the are being at the doorstep of European Union), I tried to make up the "worst-case" scenario from the point of view of criminals.

Here is a sample.

Say, a criminal kills 20 people, among them 10 males and rapes/kills 10 females. For such "deed" in Europe he will receive the "worst" treatment in Russia: 25 years of forced labor. Other countries will hand down 20-40 years but he may receive parole after 20 years. Regardless, this is not enough.

But if you apply the "dorzanët e gjakut" properly - the penalty will be higher and more severe than the original sentence.

Here is a sample:

a) For 10 male victims the court acting as some kind of "dorzani i gjakut" can ask the families to settle the blood feud against all property criminal does have.

b) For remaining 10 (female) victims the same 25-40 years are due - but no "dorzanët e gjakut".

(It is up to survived relatives to decide, how to deal with the "blood money" of course)

Logical: 10x murderer does not get less sentence than 20x murder, it will be still the same maximum sentence. But reducing the number of eligible for "dorzanët e gjakut" from 20 to 10 does not make things "better" from the point of view of the criminal: he can't pay more, than he has and the 10 male victims will "consume" all his property.

That means: the criminal will get maximum monetary fine plus the maximum possible jail. This is just to save time for the victims and avoid costly civil case after the criminal case is done. Besides, handing it as a single sentence would prevent the time gap between the criminal and civil case. Such gap is good to hide the property.

Now you can't say, I am to mild. right?

But wait... there is some more. It's a double-edged sword, "Kanun" is only one, it does not even distinguish between "good" and "bad" people, all equal - right? No double-standards. If you agree, than every criminal who killed-raped-burned in the Yugoslav civil war should be treated the same way.... if he does kill/intimidate witnesses, don't rush to pardon him. I do not expect you to agree on that, unfortunately... :(

May the honor be forever with all victims and may they rest in peace.

1) Why is the trial only now? 9 years are gone. Stronger dealing with these criminals from the begin on would improve the relationship with Albanians.

2) Since there is thankfully no death penalty in Serbia, 25 years to each criminal plus confiscating their property to pay of the debt would probably satisfy the justice. Serbs should not make the same mistake like Russians did (and still do) in Chechnya. Who is convicted with worst crime against local population, esp. crime against honor and murder should receive maximum possible sentence to make locals satisfied, not rebelling. Since monetary agreements are part of both Chechen and Albanian society, the courts should not just imprison the criminals for maximum term (life, which could be 25 years without parole), but impose a monetary fine to pay off the survivors. Confiscating homes, cars, etc. sounds justified for me.

Anyway, several 25-year sentences without parole and with property confiscation and no Albanian will call for Hague.

On the other hand, "freedom fighters" like ceku or thaci should be in the same boat (25 years + property confiscation). Than anything in Pristina what looks like a "government" will be better accepted by Serbs.

3) I find the name Ramiz Papic very interesting. Sometimes the worst henchmen are torturing their own. How many Georgians were killed by stalin?

Dashnori,

both of us are right. Probably you did not understand what I wrote. What I mean is there - precisely under the "dorzanët e gjakut" paragraph. For this case, "dorzanët e gjakut" can be applied PARTIALLY because there were both adult male victims (eligible for "dorzanët e gjakut") and children/female victims (not eligible).

Since death penalty is out of question (we are talking about 21st Century and the are being at the doorstep of European Union), I tried to make up the "worst-case" scenario from the point of view of criminals.

Here is a sample.

Say, a criminal kills 20 people, among them 10 males and rapes/kills 10 females. For such "deed" in Europe he will receive the "worst" treatment in Russia: 25 years of forced labor. Other countries will hand down 20-40 years but he may receive parole after 20 years. Regardless, this is not enough.

But if you apply the "dorzanët e gjakut" properly - the penalty will be higher and more severe than the original sentence.

Here is a sample:

a) For 10 male victims the court acting as some kind of "dorzani i gjakut" can ask the families to settle the blood feud against all property criminal does have.

b) For remaining 10 (female) victims the same 25-40 years are due - but no "dorzanët e gjakut".

(It is up to survived relatives to decide, how to deal with the "blood money" of course)

Logical: 10x murderer does not get less sentence than 20x murder, it will be still the same maximum sentence. But reducing the number of eligible for "dorzanët e gjakut" from 20 to 10 does not make things "better" from the point of view of the criminal: he can't pay more, than he has and the 10 male victims will "consume" all his property.

That means: the criminal will get maximum monetary fine plus the maximum possible jail. This is just to save time for the victims and avoid costly civil case after the criminal case is done. Besides, handing it as a single sentence would prevent the time gap between the criminal and civil case. Such gap is good to hide the property.

Now you can't say, I am to mild. right?

But wait... there is some more. It's a double-edged sword, "Kanun" is only one, it does not even distinguish between "good" and "bad" people, all equal - right? No double-standards. If you agree, than every criminal who killed-raped-burned in the Yugoslav civil war should be treated the same way.... if he does kill/intimidate witnesses, don't rush to pardon him. I do not expect you to agree on that, unfortunately... :(

May the honor be forever with all victims and may they rest in peace.

Money to pay for rape and murder is part of Albanian society? What have you been reading? Only death is enough tradition wise. See http://www.shkoder.net/en/kanun_en.htm There is no money in the world that makes up for that. Only blood washes the blood accoring to the Kanuni i Lek Dukagjinit (read about blood feuds) unless they are forgiven. Just to get their revenge entire generations have been caught up in feuds, taking it was a matter of honor.

That is /was the tradition in the North and especially in Kosovo. For rape there is no excuses, women were always excluded from trouble and touching them is the biggest no-no.

It amazes me how little Serbs know about Albanians, especially when they assumed that Serbs police and soldiers would be just coming back after what they have done.

Read about Albania and Albanians before you make bigger mistakes. http://www.nytimes.com/books/first/m/malcolm-kosovo.html

my god how can some people do such a think.... what suprise me the most is why never any serb apoligise to any of the families ot the victims.. live the politics out please... we are talking about civilians here...

many people in serbia dont know what happen in kosovo because milosevic cover so good that people in serbia think most of us albanians are terrorist.... i lived in kosovo under serbia and it was a nightmare... i would not like to see that happen even to my enemy's...

if many serbs where in our shoes they will know what im talking about... they will not know what is like to live in fear off being killed only for being a different nationality.... no matter if you where civilian or old or young....

one day i hope they will undrestand and apoligise to us albanians and we can moove on and live like humans next door to each other...

peace