Jeremić: Countries to retract recognition

I did ask the question a couple of months ago, who will be the first to withdraw recognition? Bets anyone?

The writing should be on the wall now for our Albanian friends, with the US going into the dumps, the EU mission unable to deploy and now we are talking of revoking recognitions.

RIP "Kosova" independence.

Dear Jeremic,

Attention, because you are playing with peoples' feelings.

Your FM job is at stake.

Serbians are fed up with governments lies, and can't take it anymore.

Let the flood gates for retractions open! If Costa Rica is the first to retract, I am sure that many will follow, since they were forced to recognize against their will anyway.
Cheers!!

Olli,

I heard similar stories. People from Belgrade managed to get their Albanian friend from Kosovo out of the area. Later, he told, he is now neither Serb nor Albanian - and does not even want to speak the language(s). Very horrible, but true. Currently the ball is clearly in Albanian court, this is also a reason, why I support Serbs. With the false confidence of being backed by USA, some Albanians go on rampage and we can experience it from some comments on this side. One day they will wake up and smell the reality.

This UDI did nothing to solve the conflict, just the opposite. Look around and judge yourself.

@ZK: One day "comrade lenin" did say: "самое слабое звено"/the weakest link of the chain (will break). Who will be the weakest link, not sure. In Europe Poland and Czech Republic are a good bet. Costa Rica is a very pleasant surprise.

Just a while ago the Albanians were boasting and saying "thank you" Costa Rica, Samoa, San Marino... and now they are saying who cares about these countries. Make up your mind boys.

Thaci and Sediju were right to be fearful of this initiative and the US might have calmed their nerves with their bluster of standing by their decision but clearly this is not going to be the case when ICJ do return the obvious outcome given Costa Rica - a close ally of the US has given a clear indication of how they would have to respond!!!

Like ZK said

RIP to Kosova independence but then many knew it was reality in the first place!!!

Olli - I agree with you and Ataman. It's a great shame that people feel that way, and they should be allowed to celebrate their heritage without it dragging everyone backwards all the time.

I just think that people on the ground always end up being used as bargaining tools and cannon fodder by a few at the top who don't feel any emotion about any of these issues. Or care about any of the people. I would question the capacity of some of them to care at all about anyone other than themselves.

Dashnori i Ceces: I disagree with virtually everything you say, but, if you don't mind me saying, you do often write those things very beautifully.

On EULEX - of course they are being sneaked in through the back door, but they are under the UN umbrella and the mission as a whole does not have the crucial green light.

I hope that this story is right and that recognitions will end up being reversed so that a solution can be negotiated which will take Serbia and Kosovo into the future. Whatever that may be it's not going to be legitimising independence as it stands.

PRN: "Serbians are fed up with governments lies, and can't take it anymore."

Quite the contrary. I would say that they're so hardened to it by now they are shocked when anything turns out to be true (both domestically and internationally)!

The danger of kicking people repeatedly and demonising an entire nation is that you leave them with nothing to lose. The strongest people are always those who are defending their home and have nothing to lose.

As with the bombing campaign in 1999, the US has seriously misjudged the genuine strength of feeling about Kosovo.

“Costa Rica recognized Kosovo, but told us that it would vote for our resolution, as it believes in international law and has trust in multilateral institutions. When I met with their foreign minister in New York last week, he told me that if the Court ruled that it was not in accordance with international law, they would retract their recognition,” Jeremić explained."

Let’s set a side the wishes and reality that Jeremic confounds systematically- is this sentence in line in the diplomatic practice???

To me is sounds like speaking in confidence to a kid ;)

"Serbia is the culprit for all tragedies that happened in the territory of Yugoslavia"

Anyone who has studied the Balkan wars objectively knows that this is blatenly false. There were no innocent parties except the civilians who were caught in the crossfire. Even the West shares in this guilt for its involvement in all of the Balkan wars. Anyone with a shred of intelligence knows this.

Sounds like Mr.Jeremic statement has struck some nerves. What ever happened with “Kosovo is done deal.” Why are our Albanian immigrants worried. It’s not as easy as your leaders wanted you to believe. All their lies are crumbling down to earth. The landlord turns out to be much tougher then they thought. Serbia will never give up Kosovo. Sooner you guys get that into your heads, sooner you will come to negotiating table and settle this once for ever. What goes around comes around. The scale has tipped in Serbias favor.

Milliband was wrong (along with the rest of the west) to reward the mono-ethnic ambitions of the Albanians in Kosovo (although he, like everyone else wants to pretend it is a multicultural area -ha ha).

Serbia will own Kosovo forever - until it says otherwise. This will not go away.

On the other-hand, let's not speculate too far on the outcome of the ICJ - who knows how countries will behave until it happens.

And as for those who like to say how bad Serbia is - remember that the ethnic cleansing of decent peaceful Serbs was being done by Albanians before Milosevic was on the scene. There is no moral high-ground for anyone when it comes to ethnic cleansing.

Once the UN votes and the case is taken to the ICJ, there will be ZERO further recognition, the number will stay where it is currently. There will also be ZERO international membership, all this until the ICJ comes up with a verdict, 2 to 3 years and when the verdict does come in which will certainly be in Serbia's favor I suspect about 7 or 8 countries will retract their recognition Poland to be among them but the big one will be Canada, as in recent days the news papers here in Canada are saying that the Government will have no choice but to retract the recognition. This will hurt.
And no use looking to the USA for further help they are heading towards a monster recession which will no doubt last 4 years or more.

Mr Jeremic "Yes, the donkey does fly"
(Asim Tirana, 2 October 2008 11:15)
--
Oh, I love those flying donkeys http://www.fishing.net.nz/asp_forums/uploads/61024/Flying_Donkey.jpg

Who cares about Costa Rica if Kosovo passport is the best paper to get a free 10-year Schengen visa at Slovak embassy in Pristina?

to asim:

Wow asim that's the greatest saying I ever heard in my life.... do you think the Wolf really cares about the sayings in albania?

Olli:
Wouldn't be so hard on Mr Jeremic - is doing a good job & this little 'tidbit' about Costa Rica is certainly of interest & relevant. If anyone deserves criticism for getting ahead of themselves, is Mr Tadic for his loose remarks of the previous few days.

But do agree.. baby steps.


Dashnori i Ceces:
Regarding the effects of the recession in the US on the rest of the world, while Europe may also have serious problems, doubt if they'll be of the same order of magnitude, & Asian economies will be even better off. Australia for instance, should be able to whether it fairly easily.


ben:
> Let’s set a side the wishes and reality that Jeremic confounds systematically- is this sentence in line in the diplomatic practice???

Recall several instances earlier where you lot questioned Jeremic's statements. Were wrong then & are probably wrong now.


Viti i Balit:
Last I heard, Libya was strongly supporting Serbia's position, & given Gaddafi's history with the US, find this a trifle hard to believe.


Artan:
> that after a state is recognised, chances of "retracting" the decision are NULL
Wishful thinking. Has happened before. Will happen again.


Keep it up Mr Jeremic - right down to the wire.

We have an expression here in Albania when somebody is speaking nonsense. We say "yes, the donkey does fly"
Mr Jeremic "Yes, the donkey does fly"

Serbians are fed up with governments lies, and can't take it anymore.
(PRN, 2 October 2008 14:29)

Lies or not, but that writing just appeared on the wall:

http://tinyurl.com/3wseok

It looks like UIC (which is very important organization but bush-men do not pay close attention to it) already made up it's mind.

BTW: Amtrak is a member of UIC, but indeed, they are not big fans of bushites.

Every Eu countries is watching with terror what will do Costa Rica..and maybe also what will do Vanatuu Islands..Already San Marino seems it may retract recognition..Merkel,Sarkozy and Berluscono didn't sllep

How come Serbia's leaders are not embarrassed to come out in the front of the world with this comments when everyone knows that Serbia is the culprit for all tragedies that happened in the territory of Yugoslavia during.
It seems once again Serbia is playing with their destructive polices in Balkans and Europe.

Mr. Jeremic, we have heard before that no country will recognise Indendence of Kosova
(Olf, 2 October 2008 18:52)

i remember reading on b92 before kosovo declared independence that "mr. jeremic" expected something like 40 countries to recognise kosovo. which is exactly what has happened. so, if you heard something else you didn't hear it from him.

Vuk needs to come down from Mars. His comments make no sense and are very desperate.

I'll say this NOT ONE COUNTRY will withdraw their reaction.

Jeremic sometimes talks too much that's right. But now he is talking just to get this theme rolling in the media, and to encourage for an unbiased choice that every country has to make on its own about UDI of K-Albanians.
Of course we are all on his side and full of respect for the fight he is fighting for Serbia.
In just a couple of months and because of his efforts Serbia came out of a total loss and despair to getting a majority of the world on its side.
A message to Albanian readers:
a lots of witty writers among you guys.I have fun reading your writing style.
But please
realize that nothing lasts forever -USA support included.
Wait and see.

The danger of kicking people repeatedly and demonising an entire nation is that you leave them with nothing to lose. The strongest people are always those who are defending their home and have nothing to lose.

As with the bombing campaign in 1999, the US has seriously misjudged the genuine strength of feeling about Kosovo.
(kate, 2 October 2008 15:43)

That's exactly what happened in Kosovo as e result of Serbia's policies in the '90s. Sb. still doesn't want to see the evidence and mistifies the whole thing as an USA/NATO-steered conspiracy.

As by the repression during the 90s, the behaviour of the current Serbian establishment shows that it is seriously misjudging the genuine Kosovar feeling about Kosovo... Those who don't learn the lesson will have to repeat it.

I never heard of such thing as withdrawing the recognition.
Still we have the solution even if only 5 countries will remain in the list.
All kosovans get Albanian pasports. That's it. Case closed.
Mr Jeremic and ZK UK
"Yes the donkey does fly" out of the window of the ministry of foreign affairs. (in two weeks). Gues his name?

Couple of days ago Mr Tadic was in the centre of attention for the word "partition" which USA & Germany outright rejected it.Today is Mr Jeremic with another beauty that only current Serbian government can come up with the word is "retract" unbelievable- if it wasn't true it would be funny.Only this two might know the reason's behind this fruitless game they are playing,but one thing is for sure they are not doing the Serbian people any favors.Lybia the "Big supporter of the Serbian initiative"has cancelled support (today) for the Initiative at UN which i am sure its got lot to do with last developments Coming out of Serbia.I can not believe that there is still some,and i repeat some significant number of Serbian people still believe this two politicians what comes out of their mouths.I suppose hope keeps all of us going,realistic hope though.Thanks

Jeremic, the biggest stupidity at this moment is to start speculations about the outcome in case ICJ verdict is positive towards Serbia. Sit down and see first thru the UN GA voting. Everything else only adds to conflict that is already blown to sick proportions. This conflict has become a drug for Serbs and Albanians.

Solve it, don't live for it. Or from it.

I have both Albanian and Serbian friends who don't want to visit their homelands anymore. They say they have managed to rehab and never again wish to live for that drug. As I understand they have not alienated themselves from the problem(s) and fellowmen's difficulties but lost all belief in their native people's capabilities to actually make agreements, to trust each others and to live together.

I wonder what will happen when the ICJ rules IN FAVOR of Kosova's independence?

Will Costa Rica reaffirm its recognition of Kosovar independence, like some married couples get married for a second time to renew their vows?

Jeremic is an eminent preacher in his own backyard. This optimism with which he is not only fooling himself but the whole of Serbia!!

"It is my opinion that recognition of Kosovo is the key to consolidating regional stability,” Miliband writes"

If this were a site which allows Free Speech and discussion, this guy would have been put in his place long time ago.
Here is a simple question to flatten Miliband:
As a Jew, wouldn't it be more logical for him to stabilize the Palestine and the Middle East where his co-religionaires have been sowing mayhem for the last sixty years, instead of meddling into places for which he has neither knowledge nor experience?
Would he reccomand the recognition of independence of the long suffering Palestine?
Oh, would't we love to listen to his reply.

Oh no!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Let's go back and beg the Serbs to be nice to us now that Costa Rica might change its mind. We only declared independence because we thought we had 100% support! RIP Kosovo Independence!


ZK, if US and EU are hurt economically, god help the other regions and countries, they will hurt more. Did you say EULEX isn't coming:

"The Kosovo Serb Assembly has called on Serbs from Gračanica to attend a protest at midday today against the deployment of the EULEX mission"
http://www.b92.net/eng/news/politics-article.php?yyyy=2008&mm=10&dd=02&nav_id=53910

Artan:
Was actually thinking of Taiwan aka 'Republic of China' when I wrote:
Wishful thinking. Has happened before. Will happen again.

Also, after a quick poke around also found other instances such as China & Mongolia, Liechtenstein & Czechoslovakia (a curious case) etc.

But back to Taiwan which has some interesting parallels with 'pseudo-state' in Kosovo - ie: no recognition in the UN, disputed territory, was/is recognised by 58 different countries...

... also has major differences such as a 98% chinese population & 2% indigenous population, the 'taiwanese economic miracle' etc.

Anyway, Taiwan is currently recognised by some 22 countries but was recognised by many others - 36 have withdrawn recognition, including the US, UK, France, Germany, Italy, Canada, Japan - ie: the G7 some are fond of mentioning around here.

Which who knows, may also be a parallel with K-albanian 'pseudo-state' some time in the future.

Trust that answers you ;)

"retract". Whoever has an idea about the intl law, would understand simply, that after a state is recognised, chances of "retracting" the decision are NULL. I assume Vuk should go back to his books, or better stay read int'l law the way it's written.

“There are certain countries that have very openly told us that, if the Court rules that it was not in line with international law, they will withdraw their recognition of Kosovo,” the minister said
Mr. Jeremic, we have heard before that no country will recognise Indendence of Kosova but 50 of them have done so, so, why would we believe you one this one.
We all know that ICJ will not bring such decision, so rest sure that you are staying in the curren post. Also, this government will not stay in power after you loose the ICJ initiative, since you wil not be dealing with Kosova issue.If in any case you carry on dealing with Kosova issue than I am afraid that the end of your gov. will be soon, just like it happened to all gov. from 1990 to now.

The prelude of we did what we could has started.. After the vote of NO in the UN Jeremic will say the following We almost had it.. if they only let us get past UN all the countries would have retracted recognition.. O well we tried and we did not fail they made us fail.. So life will go on.. As far as the comment about who needs CR werent you guys from Serbia making fun of Us when they recognised us .. Now why is CR so important...

What everyone seems to be conveniently forgetting, is that despite the 'legitimacy' of the Kosovo's claim to independence in terms of Serbian aggression, ethnic cleansing and so on, is that Jeremic, and indeed Serbia, has a very strong case.

Please understand that the unilateral declaration of independence is not in question here.

The reason Kosovo was separated from Serbia in the first place was due to a UN resolution that stipulated under international law that Kosovo would remain a part of Serbian sovereign territory. Serbia only agreed to withdraw their forces under these conditions - and all the members of UN agreed to it.

Now half of these countries are violating this resolution and this agreement by recognizing that Kosovo is in fact not a part of Serbian sovereign territory. They are in violation of a UN resolution, UN Charter and in violation of International Law.

After the ICJ highlights this, even though its ruling is not binding (that is, it does not immediately force countries to reverse their decisions), a lot of UN members may feel compelled to change their stance towards Kosovo, or be openly opposed to the notion of International Law.

I agree that the way forward in the balkans is for serbia to stop torturing kosovo/a
(roberto, 3 October 2008 04:27)

This is called "JOBSIAN REALITY DISTORTION FIELD". Cupertino is close to San Francisco where you live, and Steve Jobs has strong mind. But I did not know, his reality distortion field applies to other things than Apple. Thanks for telling us about Serbia torturing Kosovo, now these economically stormy days I feel more safe for Apple: it is in good hands.

"and then have all parties start talking and working together. as equals, not colonial master and subject.

sorry but i gotta say it as i see it.

roberto
(roberto, 3 October 2008 04:27)"

still claiming to be from "Frisco"?

well, I don´t care about that anyway, but what is quite strange - you´re talking about colonial masters... what for heavens sake are you talking about?

I think you should think twice about the things you post here, before you actually do it.

as for the "equals" - the K-albanians are listed as serbian citizens, they definitely ARE equals, you don´t seem to know that.

sorry, I was only writing not only "how I see it", but what is in addition also a fact.

to ZK UK and Princip:

keep in mind that ... what does not exist, cannot "rest in peace".

as for our friends: all you seem to be capable of is denying it or ineffectively ridiuling it... but nevertheless, like Peter has written it: it happened before, and will very likely happen again.

these angry and sometimes cynical comments only show your fear...

I can understand your feelings, my friends, but let me assure you: you don´t have to fear Serbia, it is your country too. all will be fine.

let´s just see what future brings.

Actually, i was just reading about Mr.Miliband, my "co-religionist" (or another self-admitted Jew, as some here like to write) and he has been open and forthright about his criticism of some israeli policies, as have i and my frnds. so i guess that phoney-baloney tactic against jews won't work.

i agree that the way forward in the balkans is for serbia to stop torturing kosovo/a, accept the reality of independence, and then have all parties start talking and working together. as equals, not colonial master and subject.

sorry but i gotta say it as i see it.

roberto

to Veki; I could say many things last forever and one thing for sure,Albanians will continue to live in DARDANIA(Kosovo) forever just like they have lived there since time began.

What's interesting about the ICJ is that recently it voted against the Genocide charge against Serbia, even though we all saw the JNA insignia on Mladic's uniform, and the tanks in Bosnia, as he led 8 thousand men and boys to their executions in Srebrenica.

Well, if the ICJ is so brazen to believe the redacted/blacked out reports of the Serbian/BosnianSerb army chain of command in Bosnia, then, I'm sure the same ICJ will believe similar redacted reports from Nato and the EU, as to the legality of Kosova's legal right to self determination and independence. I am quite sure the ICJ will accept Nato/Eu's reasons for defending the Kosova Albanians from Serbian attempts at complete ethnic cleansing of the Albanians in Kosova and why Kosova is within her rights to be independent.

With all that the ICJ has done, we should expect that same majority mindset that rejected the genocide charge for Serbia to do the same for Serbia's case against Kosova's legal standing in declaring its own independence and the nations who followed up with their recognition of this declaration and this new state.

Justices usually stay consistent in their rulings and beliefs/acceptance of international law. Right to self determination is just one of the laws in that codex. :)

TO peter, sydney;

If countries have changed their mind on state recognitions as you state, would you be kind to mention those "SUI GENERIS" cases, just for the sake of the recpect to the readers posting in here.

Looking forward to hear your reply :)

loraininan:
"What's interesting about the ICJ is that recently it voted against the Genocide charge against Serbia, even though we all saw the JNA insignia on Mladic's uniform"

The JNA ceased to exist in 1992. Hence why Mladic is wearing Bosnian Serb insignia in this photograph

http://www.paulvermast.nl/wp/wp-content/uploads/2008/01/karadzic-en-mladic.jpg

JNA insignia was a red star.

Kosova has only a limited independence...«All kosovans get Albanian pasports. That's it. Case closed» Why not US passports?Guess who will be the next US's state? Isn't the best choice? Here in N America we have a company « The President's choice» ...Just pass the idea to Sejdiu! You never know....

We have an expression here in Albania when somebody is speaking nonsense. We say "yes, the donkey does fly"
Mr Jeremic "Yes, the donkey does fly"

How come Serbia's leaders are not embarrassed to come out in the front of the world with this comments when everyone knows that Serbia is the culprit for all tragedies that happened in the territory of Yugoslavia during.
It seems once again Serbia is playing with their destructive polices in Balkans and Europe.

Dear Jeremic,

Attention, because you are playing with peoples' feelings.

Your FM job is at stake.

Serbians are fed up with governments lies, and can't take it anymore.

Vuk needs to come down from Mars. His comments make no sense and are very desperate.

I'll say this NOT ONE COUNTRY will withdraw their reaction.

Oh no!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Let's go back and beg the Serbs to be nice to us now that Costa Rica might change its mind. We only declared independence because we thought we had 100% support! RIP Kosovo Independence!


ZK, if US and EU are hurt economically, god help the other regions and countries, they will hurt more. Did you say EULEX isn't coming:

"The Kosovo Serb Assembly has called on Serbs from Gračanica to attend a protest at midday today against the deployment of the EULEX mission"
http://www.b92.net/eng/news/politics-article.php?yyyy=2008&mm=10&dd=02&nav_id=53910

Every Eu countries is watching with terror what will do Costa Rica..and maybe also what will do Vanatuu Islands..Already San Marino seems it may retract recognition..Merkel,Sarkozy and Berluscono didn't sllep

Jeremic, the biggest stupidity at this moment is to start speculations about the outcome in case ICJ verdict is positive towards Serbia. Sit down and see first thru the UN GA voting. Everything else only adds to conflict that is already blown to sick proportions. This conflict has become a drug for Serbs and Albanians.

Solve it, don't live for it. Or from it.

I have both Albanian and Serbian friends who don't want to visit their homelands anymore. They say they have managed to rehab and never again wish to live for that drug. As I understand they have not alienated themselves from the problem(s) and fellowmen's difficulties but lost all belief in their native people's capabilities to actually make agreements, to trust each others and to live together.

Couple of days ago Mr Tadic was in the centre of attention for the word "partition" which USA & Germany outright rejected it.Today is Mr Jeremic with another beauty that only current Serbian government can come up with the word is "retract" unbelievable- if it wasn't true it would be funny.Only this two might know the reason's behind this fruitless game they are playing,but one thing is for sure they are not doing the Serbian people any favors.Lybia the "Big supporter of the Serbian initiative"has cancelled support (today) for the Initiative at UN which i am sure its got lot to do with last developments Coming out of Serbia.I can not believe that there is still some,and i repeat some significant number of Serbian people still believe this two politicians what comes out of their mouths.I suppose hope keeps all of us going,realistic hope though.Thanks

I wonder what will happen when the ICJ rules IN FAVOR of Kosova's independence?

Will Costa Rica reaffirm its recognition of Kosovar independence, like some married couples get married for a second time to renew their vows?

I never heard of such thing as withdrawing the recognition.
Still we have the solution even if only 5 countries will remain in the list.
All kosovans get Albanian pasports. That's it. Case closed.
Mr Jeremic and ZK UK
"Yes the donkey does fly" out of the window of the ministry of foreign affairs. (in two weeks). Gues his name?

I did ask the question a couple of months ago, who will be the first to withdraw recognition? Bets anyone?

The writing should be on the wall now for our Albanian friends, with the US going into the dumps, the EU mission unable to deploy and now we are talking of revoking recognitions.

RIP "Kosova" independence.

“Costa Rica recognized Kosovo, but told us that it would vote for our resolution, as it believes in international law and has trust in multilateral institutions. When I met with their foreign minister in New York last week, he told me that if the Court ruled that it was not in accordance with international law, they would retract their recognition,” Jeremić explained."

Let’s set a side the wishes and reality that Jeremic confounds systematically- is this sentence in line in the diplomatic practice???

To me is sounds like speaking in confidence to a kid ;)

The prelude of we did what we could has started.. After the vote of NO in the UN Jeremic will say the following We almost had it.. if they only let us get past UN all the countries would have retracted recognition.. O well we tried and we did not fail they made us fail.. So life will go on.. As far as the comment about who needs CR werent you guys from Serbia making fun of Us when they recognised us .. Now why is CR so important...

Once the UN votes and the case is taken to the ICJ, there will be ZERO further recognition, the number will stay where it is currently. There will also be ZERO international membership, all this until the ICJ comes up with a verdict, 2 to 3 years and when the verdict does come in which will certainly be in Serbia's favor I suspect about 7 or 8 countries will retract their recognition Poland to be among them but the big one will be Canada, as in recent days the news papers here in Canada are saying that the Government will have no choice but to retract the recognition. This will hurt.
And no use looking to the USA for further help they are heading towards a monster recession which will no doubt last 4 years or more.

Mr Jeremic "Yes, the donkey does fly"
(Asim Tirana, 2 October 2008 11:15)
--
Oh, I love those flying donkeys http://www.fishing.net.nz/asp_forums/uploads/61024/Flying_Donkey.jpg

"retract". Whoever has an idea about the intl law, would understand simply, that after a state is recognised, chances of "retracting" the decision are NULL. I assume Vuk should go back to his books, or better stay read int'l law the way it's written.

The danger of kicking people repeatedly and demonising an entire nation is that you leave them with nothing to lose. The strongest people are always those who are defending their home and have nothing to lose.

As with the bombing campaign in 1999, the US has seriously misjudged the genuine strength of feeling about Kosovo.
(kate, 2 October 2008 15:43)

That's exactly what happened in Kosovo as e result of Serbia's policies in the '90s. Sb. still doesn't want to see the evidence and mistifies the whole thing as an USA/NATO-steered conspiracy.

As by the repression during the 90s, the behaviour of the current Serbian establishment shows that it is seriously misjudging the genuine Kosovar feeling about Kosovo... Those who don't learn the lesson will have to repeat it.

“There are certain countries that have very openly told us that, if the Court rules that it was not in line with international law, they will withdraw their recognition of Kosovo,” the minister said
Mr. Jeremic, we have heard before that no country will recognise Indendence of Kosova but 50 of them have done so, so, why would we believe you one this one.
We all know that ICJ will not bring such decision, so rest sure that you are staying in the curren post. Also, this government will not stay in power after you loose the ICJ initiative, since you wil not be dealing with Kosova issue.If in any case you carry on dealing with Kosova issue than I am afraid that the end of your gov. will be soon, just like it happened to all gov. from 1990 to now.

Who cares about Costa Rica if Kosovo passport is the best paper to get a free 10-year Schengen visa at Slovak embassy in Pristina?

Thaci and Sediju were right to be fearful of this initiative and the US might have calmed their nerves with their bluster of standing by their decision but clearly this is not going to be the case when ICJ do return the obvious outcome given Costa Rica - a close ally of the US has given a clear indication of how they would have to respond!!!

Like ZK said

RIP to Kosova independence but then many knew it was reality in the first place!!!

Olli,

I heard similar stories. People from Belgrade managed to get their Albanian friend from Kosovo out of the area. Later, he told, he is now neither Serb nor Albanian - and does not even want to speak the language(s). Very horrible, but true. Currently the ball is clearly in Albanian court, this is also a reason, why I support Serbs. With the false confidence of being backed by USA, some Albanians go on rampage and we can experience it from some comments on this side. One day they will wake up and smell the reality.

This UDI did nothing to solve the conflict, just the opposite. Look around and judge yourself.

@ZK: One day "comrade lenin" did say: "самое слабое звено"/the weakest link of the chain (will break). Who will be the weakest link, not sure. In Europe Poland and Czech Republic are a good bet. Costa Rica is a very pleasant surprise.

Olli - I agree with you and Ataman. It's a great shame that people feel that way, and they should be allowed to celebrate their heritage without it dragging everyone backwards all the time.

I just think that people on the ground always end up being used as bargaining tools and cannon fodder by a few at the top who don't feel any emotion about any of these issues. Or care about any of the people. I would question the capacity of some of them to care at all about anyone other than themselves.

Dashnori i Ceces: I disagree with virtually everything you say, but, if you don't mind me saying, you do often write those things very beautifully.

On EULEX - of course they are being sneaked in through the back door, but they are under the UN umbrella and the mission as a whole does not have the crucial green light.

I hope that this story is right and that recognitions will end up being reversed so that a solution can be negotiated which will take Serbia and Kosovo into the future. Whatever that may be it's not going to be legitimising independence as it stands.

Sounds like Mr.Jeremic statement has struck some nerves. What ever happened with “Kosovo is done deal.” Why are our Albanian immigrants worried. It’s not as easy as your leaders wanted you to believe. All their lies are crumbling down to earth. The landlord turns out to be much tougher then they thought. Serbia will never give up Kosovo. Sooner you guys get that into your heads, sooner you will come to negotiating table and settle this once for ever. What goes around comes around. The scale has tipped in Serbias favor.

to asim:

Wow asim that's the greatest saying I ever heard in my life.... do you think the Wolf really cares about the sayings in albania?

Just a while ago the Albanians were boasting and saying "thank you" Costa Rica, Samoa, San Marino... and now they are saying who cares about these countries. Make up your mind boys.

Let the flood gates for retractions open! If Costa Rica is the first to retract, I am sure that many will follow, since they were forced to recognize against their will anyway.
Cheers!!

PRN: "Serbians are fed up with governments lies, and can't take it anymore."

Quite the contrary. I would say that they're so hardened to it by now they are shocked when anything turns out to be true (both domestically and internationally)!

The danger of kicking people repeatedly and demonising an entire nation is that you leave them with nothing to lose. The strongest people are always those who are defending their home and have nothing to lose.

As with the bombing campaign in 1999, the US has seriously misjudged the genuine strength of feeling about Kosovo.

"Serbia is the culprit for all tragedies that happened in the territory of Yugoslavia"

Anyone who has studied the Balkan wars objectively knows that this is blatenly false. There were no innocent parties except the civilians who were caught in the crossfire. Even the West shares in this guilt for its involvement in all of the Balkan wars. Anyone with a shred of intelligence knows this.

Olli:
Wouldn't be so hard on Mr Jeremic - is doing a good job & this little 'tidbit' about Costa Rica is certainly of interest & relevant. If anyone deserves criticism for getting ahead of themselves, is Mr Tadic for his loose remarks of the previous few days.

But do agree.. baby steps.


Dashnori i Ceces:
Regarding the effects of the recession in the US on the rest of the world, while Europe may also have serious problems, doubt if they'll be of the same order of magnitude, & Asian economies will be even better off. Australia for instance, should be able to whether it fairly easily.


ben:
> Let’s set a side the wishes and reality that Jeremic confounds systematically- is this sentence in line in the diplomatic practice???

Recall several instances earlier where you lot questioned Jeremic's statements. Were wrong then & are probably wrong now.


Viti i Balit:
Last I heard, Libya was strongly supporting Serbia's position, & given Gaddafi's history with the US, find this a trifle hard to believe.


Artan:
> that after a state is recognised, chances of "retracting" the decision are NULL
Wishful thinking. Has happened before. Will happen again.


Keep it up Mr Jeremic - right down to the wire.

Jeremic sometimes talks too much that's right. But now he is talking just to get this theme rolling in the media, and to encourage for an unbiased choice that every country has to make on its own about UDI of K-Albanians.
Of course we are all on his side and full of respect for the fight he is fighting for Serbia.
In just a couple of months and because of his efforts Serbia came out of a total loss and despair to getting a majority of the world on its side.
A message to Albanian readers:
a lots of witty writers among you guys.I have fun reading your writing style.
But please
realize that nothing lasts forever -USA support included.
Wait and see.

Jeremic is an eminent preacher in his own backyard. This optimism with which he is not only fooling himself but the whole of Serbia!!

"It is my opinion that recognition of Kosovo is the key to consolidating regional stability,” Miliband writes"

If this were a site which allows Free Speech and discussion, this guy would have been put in his place long time ago.
Here is a simple question to flatten Miliband:
As a Jew, wouldn't it be more logical for him to stabilize the Palestine and the Middle East where his co-religionaires have been sowing mayhem for the last sixty years, instead of meddling into places for which he has neither knowledge nor experience?
Would he reccomand the recognition of independence of the long suffering Palestine?
Oh, would't we love to listen to his reply.

Serbians are fed up with governments lies, and can't take it anymore.
(PRN, 2 October 2008 14:29)

Lies or not, but that writing just appeared on the wall:

http://tinyurl.com/3wseok

It looks like UIC (which is very important organization but bush-men do not pay close attention to it) already made up it's mind.

BTW: Amtrak is a member of UIC, but indeed, they are not big fans of bushites.

Milliband was wrong (along with the rest of the west) to reward the mono-ethnic ambitions of the Albanians in Kosovo (although he, like everyone else wants to pretend it is a multicultural area -ha ha).

Serbia will own Kosovo forever - until it says otherwise. This will not go away.

On the other-hand, let's not speculate too far on the outcome of the ICJ - who knows how countries will behave until it happens.

And as for those who like to say how bad Serbia is - remember that the ethnic cleansing of decent peaceful Serbs was being done by Albanians before Milosevic was on the scene. There is no moral high-ground for anyone when it comes to ethnic cleansing.

Mr. Jeremic, we have heard before that no country will recognise Indendence of Kosova
(Olf, 2 October 2008 18:52)

i remember reading on b92 before kosovo declared independence that "mr. jeremic" expected something like 40 countries to recognise kosovo. which is exactly what has happened. so, if you heard something else you didn't hear it from him.

to ZK UK and Princip:

keep in mind that ... what does not exist, cannot "rest in peace".

as for our friends: all you seem to be capable of is denying it or ineffectively ridiuling it... but nevertheless, like Peter has written it: it happened before, and will very likely happen again.

these angry and sometimes cynical comments only show your fear...

I can understand your feelings, my friends, but let me assure you: you don´t have to fear Serbia, it is your country too. all will be fine.

let´s just see what future brings.

What everyone seems to be conveniently forgetting, is that despite the 'legitimacy' of the Kosovo's claim to independence in terms of Serbian aggression, ethnic cleansing and so on, is that Jeremic, and indeed Serbia, has a very strong case.

Please understand that the unilateral declaration of independence is not in question here.

The reason Kosovo was separated from Serbia in the first place was due to a UN resolution that stipulated under international law that Kosovo would remain a part of Serbian sovereign territory. Serbia only agreed to withdraw their forces under these conditions - and all the members of UN agreed to it.

Now half of these countries are violating this resolution and this agreement by recognizing that Kosovo is in fact not a part of Serbian sovereign territory. They are in violation of a UN resolution, UN Charter and in violation of International Law.

After the ICJ highlights this, even though its ruling is not binding (that is, it does not immediately force countries to reverse their decisions), a lot of UN members may feel compelled to change their stance towards Kosovo, or be openly opposed to the notion of International Law.

I agree that the way forward in the balkans is for serbia to stop torturing kosovo/a
(roberto, 3 October 2008 04:27)

This is called "JOBSIAN REALITY DISTORTION FIELD". Cupertino is close to San Francisco where you live, and Steve Jobs has strong mind. But I did not know, his reality distortion field applies to other things than Apple. Thanks for telling us about Serbia torturing Kosovo, now these economically stormy days I feel more safe for Apple: it is in good hands.

Kosova has only a limited independence...«All kosovans get Albanian pasports. That's it. Case closed» Why not US passports?Guess who will be the next US's state? Isn't the best choice? Here in N America we have a company « The President's choice» ...Just pass the idea to Sejdiu! You never know....

"and then have all parties start talking and working together. as equals, not colonial master and subject.

sorry but i gotta say it as i see it.

roberto
(roberto, 3 October 2008 04:27)"

still claiming to be from "Frisco"?

well, I don´t care about that anyway, but what is quite strange - you´re talking about colonial masters... what for heavens sake are you talking about?

I think you should think twice about the things you post here, before you actually do it.

as for the "equals" - the K-albanians are listed as serbian citizens, they definitely ARE equals, you don´t seem to know that.

sorry, I was only writing not only "how I see it", but what is in addition also a fact.

Artan:
Was actually thinking of Taiwan aka 'Republic of China' when I wrote:
Wishful thinking. Has happened before. Will happen again.

Also, after a quick poke around also found other instances such as China & Mongolia, Liechtenstein & Czechoslovakia (a curious case) etc.

But back to Taiwan which has some interesting parallels with 'pseudo-state' in Kosovo - ie: no recognition in the UN, disputed territory, was/is recognised by 58 different countries...

... also has major differences such as a 98% chinese population & 2% indigenous population, the 'taiwanese economic miracle' etc.

Anyway, Taiwan is currently recognised by some 22 countries but was recognised by many others - 36 have withdrawn recognition, including the US, UK, France, Germany, Italy, Canada, Japan - ie: the G7 some are fond of mentioning around here.

Which who knows, may also be a parallel with K-albanian 'pseudo-state' some time in the future.

Trust that answers you ;)

Actually, i was just reading about Mr.Miliband, my "co-religionist" (or another self-admitted Jew, as some here like to write) and he has been open and forthright about his criticism of some israeli policies, as have i and my frnds. so i guess that phoney-baloney tactic against jews won't work.

i agree that the way forward in the balkans is for serbia to stop torturing kosovo/a, accept the reality of independence, and then have all parties start talking and working together. as equals, not colonial master and subject.

sorry but i gotta say it as i see it.

roberto

What's interesting about the ICJ is that recently it voted against the Genocide charge against Serbia, even though we all saw the JNA insignia on Mladic's uniform, and the tanks in Bosnia, as he led 8 thousand men and boys to their executions in Srebrenica.

Well, if the ICJ is so brazen to believe the redacted/blacked out reports of the Serbian/BosnianSerb army chain of command in Bosnia, then, I'm sure the same ICJ will believe similar redacted reports from Nato and the EU, as to the legality of Kosova's legal right to self determination and independence. I am quite sure the ICJ will accept Nato/Eu's reasons for defending the Kosova Albanians from Serbian attempts at complete ethnic cleansing of the Albanians in Kosova and why Kosova is within her rights to be independent.

With all that the ICJ has done, we should expect that same majority mindset that rejected the genocide charge for Serbia to do the same for Serbia's case against Kosova's legal standing in declaring its own independence and the nations who followed up with their recognition of this declaration and this new state.

Justices usually stay consistent in their rulings and beliefs/acceptance of international law. Right to self determination is just one of the laws in that codex. :)

TO peter, sydney;

If countries have changed their mind on state recognitions as you state, would you be kind to mention those "SUI GENERIS" cases, just for the sake of the recpect to the readers posting in here.

Looking forward to hear your reply :)

to Veki; I could say many things last forever and one thing for sure,Albanians will continue to live in DARDANIA(Kosovo) forever just like they have lived there since time began.

loraininan:
"What's interesting about the ICJ is that recently it voted against the Genocide charge against Serbia, even though we all saw the JNA insignia on Mladic's uniform"

The JNA ceased to exist in 1992. Hence why Mladic is wearing Bosnian Serb insignia in this photograph

http://www.paulvermast.nl/wp/wp-content/uploads/2008/01/karadzic-en-mladic.jpg

JNA insignia was a red star.