President Boris Tadić says he did not propose partitioning Kosovo as a solution, but only mentioned it as a possibility after all others were exhausted.
Gojko: Serbia has no interest in Kosovo except North of the Ibar.
This is true! But in politics there is a saying: "Too little, too late!"
Had the Serbs realized that it is in their own interest to get rid of much of Kosovo BEFORE 1999, the partition of Kosovo could have been feasable! The Albanians probably would have accepted it, and the "international community" would have been faced with a fait accompli.
May be Serbia had a slim chance to achieve partition of Kosovo during the lengthy negotiations perceding the UDI.
Now it is siply too late! The most Serbs could hope for is an 'autonomy' of Mitrovica (within Kosovo) in exchange for an 'autonomy' of Persevo within Serbia! The persisting refusal of the various Serbian governments to negotiate with the K-Albanians as an equal (not as a subject) may continue to destroy Serbia's national chances!
I just don't understand your logic - you're cheering to divide/separate my Yugoslavia and pushed hard to split Serbia and now have your say - Bosnia shouldn't be divided, and now Kosovo - part of Serbia should stay as you see it - what a HYPOCRISY.
Mesic, by the way, taking full credit by repeating: I destroyed Yugoslavia, and in Bosnia - Serbs are the latest to form national party, as late response to fanatics of SDA and HDZ.
Take the facts/logic - not only feelings into comments.
"It's not me it's you. I just highlight it. So why do you censur me?"
(ben, 1 October 2008 17:42)
I think that we are blood brothers, Ben, since yet another of my postings was "lost" yesterday. Is that nice, i ask?
As for partition(the issue at hand): i am very opposed to this concept, esp.ly in the Balkans. First, because it would be very disturbing to many, many people, and not in a good way. and once started, it would lead to endless more partitions. really, the more you think about it,the worse it seems.
but the other point, even more important, is that ethnic partition is impossible (never mind grossly immoral.) you cannot (in this day and age) get ethnically "clean" states, entities, unless you force out or murder endless numbers of people. does anyone really want this to happen -- again -- in the Balkans?
every nation on earth (that i am aware of) has ethnic diversity: tribes, religions, ethnicities, whatever. it is a reality, and we either accept and embrace it (as best we can) or it will haunt us, it will bite us in the butt. and has, too many times, and continues to do so (as in Darfur). it has resulted in so much misery! isn't that obvious? to me it is.
i do believe there can be ways, if and when all former YUGO countries are in the EU, to foster decentralization and further democratization, and to cement guarantees of civil rights, human rights for all. it won't happen by magic, but it CAN happen, and it will if there is the will.
Serbia will never retrieve Kosova as it is gone just like the so called krajina and serb parts of bosnia. Being a Russian ally can only give you heartache and pain. We all know that the U.S is the powerhouse on this earth and that's the way it will stay. Kosova will never be partioned or returned to the Serbs because the U.S wont allow it. The American's rin the world not the U.N or the E.U, the are just puppets for the U.S. Grow up serbia it's just not going to happen..and by the way if you think that the Bos. serbs will join Serbia proper -think again.
He must have been surprised that somebody is listening to what he says, so he went into his spin mode.
First he said he would consider partition of Kosovo to clarify afterwards that he never meant that.
Rather clumsy damage control, if you ask me, but one does what one can.
As from now on, we should perhaps learn to keep our applause on hold (for a day or two) until Tadic decides how exactly he wants us to accept his utterances.
I don't understand why I am continuously censured???
It is you Serbs that say that Kosova is the HEART and SOUL of Serbia and than if you could, you would be happy to divide it.
Tadic just said what every Serbs hopes- to grab at least a piece of land in Kosova, piece in Bosnia and if it could somewhere else. There is no HEART, SOUL etc thing here it is just a pure hegeministic ideology.
It is your hypocrisy not mine.
You "LOVE" Kosova but MOCK it everyday, think of her but DO NOT WANT TO LIVE in Kosova etc- all blunt hypocrisy words to hide the LAND GRAB ambitions.
It's not me it's you. I just highlight it. So why do you censur me?
By mentioning a viable alternative solution to the UDI of Kosovo, Tadic has weakened the position of the West on Kosovo. This will only help the ICJ case.
Everyone knows that partition is in the works, otherwise why the actions Serbia has been taking in the North? It all points towards partition. Besides, we all know that you can not control an area that really does not want to be controlled. The same logic led me to the conclusion that we as Serbs can not force all the Albanians from Kosovo to live in our State.
A Dayton type solution for Kosovo didn’t work in Bosnia and won’t work in Kosovo. The only solution that will bring stability and lasting peace is partition.
Looks like Mr. Lyon of the ICG was completely wrong on how partition was to come about, he severely under-estimated Tadic’s commitment to peace and stability.
Let’s resolve this in a way that’s reasonable so we can all move forward. “Punishing” Serbia over and over again for Decades, for the crimes of Milosevic will only alienate the population and cause another war sometime in the future.
Serbs are a patient people, we can wait another 500 years for justice, can the EU afford to wait that long?
Oh this insufferable lamentation.
Once the "West" said there will be no Kosovo independence and here we are!
Now they say No partition, bla..
-What else but partition of Kosovo and of course only Kosovo?-
Albanians refused to live with Serbs in a common state, why should Serbs live in an Albanian one? Irremovable facts have been created by dislodging Serbs from all other regions of Kosovo into Serbia or northern Kosovo - the last ressort! Serbs can not accept further impertinence.
Its time to close the chapter Kosovo.
When will Albanians stop behaving like spoiled childreen wanting all they see? Kosovo, Presevo, Montenegro, Macedonia, Cameria etc.
Quote: "Serbia does not recognize now nor will it ever recognize Kosovo's independence," Tadić said, adding that state policy on this issue would never change."
I am sure the Maya's, the Azteks, the Faroes, the Ceasars, and even Hitler firmly believed that they would rule forever and ever.
Unfortunately, reality thought differently. If I was Tadic, I would be careful about using such words.
Not suggesting only testing. mr Tadic Albanian lands are not a cattle market nor is the year we live on 1912. We live in the year 2008 in a year Serbia somehow wants to join EUROPEAN UNION.You are supposed to make the Serbs EU citizens instead you are testing how far you can get. Not very far.
I dont think Kosovo will be priority of USA or EU when the economic crisis ensues after the financial crack. Be it Obama or McCain, they will have to deal with the poor at home and not the poor abroad.
If that ever did happen, how would a new war be avoided?
(kate, 1 October 2008 12:35)
--
Serbia has not chosen war after a very provocative move by NATO with the Albanians and I don't believe Serbia will do the same when the tables have turned. The Albanians will have to accept the reality which will give them practically everything they want but only within the borders of Serbia.
Remember, the problems in Kosovo were not at the "war" level until the US decided to support what they considered terroritsts at the time. I truly believe they were trained to provoke Serbia into increasing tensions so NATO had a reason to bomb and occupy our land.
War cannot be ruled out but I don't believe it will be the Serbians choosing that option.
Yesterday Tadic tried to float an unconstitutional trial balloon and every Albanian and almost every Serb, except perhaps Bganon, screamed No Way Jose!
In my comment yesterday i said:In the past i gave Mr Tadic more credit than he deserves,i think just shows that i was right. Must be pretty terrifying not to be able to see light at the end of the tunnel.
kate,
Tadic is doing the smart thing ahead of the ICJ ruling and showing that Serbia is prepared to discuss all options.
A sovereign state which is prepared to negotiate vs an illegitimate entity which refuses to contemplate anything other than all or nothing.
Serbia made a mockery of ICJ initiative with this statement that's my opinion.
I agree that Serbia is prepared to negotiate all options(only in Serbian terms though)you right,but Kosova doesn't have to negotiate with Serbia (About the status anyway)and we all know what Serbia's offer is to the K-Albanians.Any other negotiation must be as equals two sovereign states,on equal footing that's the only way. Recognised by the most powerful countries in the world,you cant say illegitimate entity. Slobodan Milosevic
thought the same about the K-Albanians(Illegitimate,Insignificant entity)and because of that we got our independence thanks to him.So please Kate lets not see each other as that.Thanks
EU will not allow any partition. It's against what EU stands for, harmony and getting along. The only way it can get divided is North Mitrovica and that includes only 40% of Serbs. If you try to divide it differently, more Albanians than Serbs will be in that area.
Everyone knew this is what Serbs wanted after February so Tadic didn't say anything new. Of course you try to get as much and than settle for the best. I do think he hurt his chances with UN members but who knows.
We all know that what Mr Tadic is saying is just so he scores political points. We do also know that for as long as US will be based in Kosova there is & there will never be any partition.
With regards to the financial meltdown in US I do not see any other world player (i.e. Russia or China) taking any lead role. By now everybody should have understood that whatever happens in the US markets/economy affects the whole world.
I hope that the day when Kosova & Serbia are admitted in EU comes soon and that will naturally eliminate many of the current issues. It's always the politicians that cause the trouble!
"So my point of removing the occupation and all should fall into place."
Keep dreaming. 95% of the people don't feel occupied, they were liberated by NATO and NATO isn't going anywhere. All of Europe is a member and all the Balkan will be soon too.
ZK UK: "So tell me, when has the West negotiated with Serbia in good faith either recently or throughout the 90s? The simple answer is they didn't then so why should they now?"
Well that is very true. I hope that you are right that there may be an alternative, but on the surface of it partition or some sort of federation such as in Bosnia (which seems to have been a disaster) seem the only practical solutions.
I can't see how the Kosovo Albanian leadership would agree to partition (but they may be forced to) let alone having to face the withdrawal of internationals which I can't see happening.
If that ever did happen, how would a new war be avoided?
No Luigi - Tadic is doing the smart thing ahead of the ICJ ruling and showing that Serbia is prepared to discuss all options.
A sovereign state which is prepared to negotiate vs an illegitimate entity which refuses to contemplate anything other than all or nothing. Which do you think stands in the stronger position?
By the way, I found your comments yesterday about Haradinaj being your hero for expelling Serbs extremely inappropriate and offensive.
I believe partition would be a very unpopular option as far as both Serbians and Albanians are concerned and I have no idea why Tadic would even mention it, but it does seem he is now backtracking. Hopefully that idea will be buried for good.
bganon and Kate, you both pointed out that somehow if the Serbians and Albanians came to some agreement then that should be respected. Personally, I can't see that as a possibility because I don't believe the Albanians have any say and this is not up for negotiation. The US simply whispers in their ear not to accept anything less than independence and that is as far as negotiations can go.
The Western states have an agenda and that is to be followed. Either Serbia submits (we become subservient) and they will leave us alone or we resist and defend our freedom (and international law). So tell me, when has the West negotiated with Serbia in good faith either recently or throughout the 90s? The simple answer is they didn't then so why should they now?
The way I see it is that the problem is not with the Albanians and Serbians coming to some agreement but that the US/NATO will not permit that because it threatens their occupation and control of the Balkans.
So my point of removing the occupation and all should fall into place. With the current financial meltdown, I can see that as a real possibility (and that doesn't mean taking up arms).
Tadić responded by setting out his already well-known views on state policy on Kosovo, stating he had not suggested partition, though it was something that could be considered once all other options had been exhausted.
If you're not in favour why should you consider it?It would be more favourable if you considered as a second alternative-the first being a
united Serbia with Kosovo-an
administrative system along the same line as Bosnia.A loose federation with each ethnicity taking care of its own affairs.Partition is also not an option within the context of Serbia and Kosovo joining the EU sometime in the near future.
No Luigi - Tadic is doing the smart thing ahead of the ICJ ruling and showing that Serbia is prepared to discuss all options.
A sovereign state which is prepared to negotiate vs an illegitimate entity which refuses to contemplate anything other than all or nothing. Which do you think stands in the stronger position?
By the way, I found your comments yesterday about Haradinaj being your hero for expelling Serbs extremely inappropriate and offensive.
I believe partition would be a very unpopular option as far as both Serbians and Albanians are concerned and I have no idea why Tadic would even mention it, but it does seem he is now backtracking. Hopefully that idea will be buried for good.
bganon and Kate, you both pointed out that somehow if the Serbians and Albanians came to some agreement then that should be respected. Personally, I can't see that as a possibility because I don't believe the Albanians have any say and this is not up for negotiation. The US simply whispers in their ear not to accept anything less than independence and that is as far as negotiations can go.
The Western states have an agenda and that is to be followed. Either Serbia submits (we become subservient) and they will leave us alone or we resist and defend our freedom (and international law). So tell me, when has the West negotiated with Serbia in good faith either recently or throughout the 90s? The simple answer is they didn't then so why should they now?
The way I see it is that the problem is not with the Albanians and Serbians coming to some agreement but that the US/NATO will not permit that because it threatens their occupation and control of the Balkans.
So my point of removing the occupation and all should fall into place. With the current financial meltdown, I can see that as a real possibility (and that doesn't mean taking up arms).
Tadić responded by setting out his already well-known views on state policy on Kosovo, stating he had not suggested partition, though it was something that could be considered once all other options had been exhausted.
If you're not in favour why should you consider it?It would be more favourable if you considered as a second alternative-the first being a
united Serbia with Kosovo-an
administrative system along the same line as Bosnia.A loose federation with each ethnicity taking care of its own affairs.Partition is also not an option within the context of Serbia and Kosovo joining the EU sometime in the near future.
If that ever did happen, how would a new war be avoided?
(kate, 1 October 2008 12:35)
--
Serbia has not chosen war after a very provocative move by NATO with the Albanians and I don't believe Serbia will do the same when the tables have turned. The Albanians will have to accept the reality which will give them practically everything they want but only within the borders of Serbia.
Remember, the problems in Kosovo were not at the "war" level until the US decided to support what they considered terroritsts at the time. I truly believe they were trained to provoke Serbia into increasing tensions so NATO had a reason to bomb and occupy our land.
War cannot be ruled out but I don't believe it will be the Serbians choosing that option.
ZK UK: "So tell me, when has the West negotiated with Serbia in good faith either recently or throughout the 90s? The simple answer is they didn't then so why should they now?"
Well that is very true. I hope that you are right that there may be an alternative, but on the surface of it partition or some sort of federation such as in Bosnia (which seems to have been a disaster) seem the only practical solutions.
I can't see how the Kosovo Albanian leadership would agree to partition (but they may be forced to) let alone having to face the withdrawal of internationals which I can't see happening.
If that ever did happen, how would a new war be avoided?
"So my point of removing the occupation and all should fall into place."
Keep dreaming. 95% of the people don't feel occupied, they were liberated by NATO and NATO isn't going anywhere. All of Europe is a member and all the Balkan will be soon too.
We all know that what Mr Tadic is saying is just so he scores political points. We do also know that for as long as US will be based in Kosova there is & there will never be any partition.
With regards to the financial meltdown in US I do not see any other world player (i.e. Russia or China) taking any lead role. By now everybody should have understood that whatever happens in the US markets/economy affects the whole world.
I hope that the day when Kosova & Serbia are admitted in EU comes soon and that will naturally eliminate many of the current issues. It's always the politicians that cause the trouble!
By mentioning a viable alternative solution to the UDI of Kosovo, Tadic has weakened the position of the West on Kosovo. This will only help the ICJ case.
Everyone knows that partition is in the works, otherwise why the actions Serbia has been taking in the North? It all points towards partition. Besides, we all know that you can not control an area that really does not want to be controlled. The same logic led me to the conclusion that we as Serbs can not force all the Albanians from Kosovo to live in our State.
A Dayton type solution for Kosovo didn’t work in Bosnia and won’t work in Kosovo. The only solution that will bring stability and lasting peace is partition.
Looks like Mr. Lyon of the ICG was completely wrong on how partition was to come about, he severely under-estimated Tadic’s commitment to peace and stability.
Let’s resolve this in a way that’s reasonable so we can all move forward. “Punishing” Serbia over and over again for Decades, for the crimes of Milosevic will only alienate the population and cause another war sometime in the future.
Serbs are a patient people, we can wait another 500 years for justice, can the EU afford to wait that long?
EU will not allow any partition. It's against what EU stands for, harmony and getting along. The only way it can get divided is North Mitrovica and that includes only 40% of Serbs. If you try to divide it differently, more Albanians than Serbs will be in that area.
Everyone knew this is what Serbs wanted after February so Tadic didn't say anything new. Of course you try to get as much and than settle for the best. I do think he hurt his chances with UN members but who knows.
In my comment yesterday i said:In the past i gave Mr Tadic more credit than he deserves,i think just shows that i was right. Must be pretty terrifying not to be able to see light at the end of the tunnel.
kate,
Tadic is doing the smart thing ahead of the ICJ ruling and showing that Serbia is prepared to discuss all options.
A sovereign state which is prepared to negotiate vs an illegitimate entity which refuses to contemplate anything other than all or nothing.
Serbia made a mockery of ICJ initiative with this statement that's my opinion.
I agree that Serbia is prepared to negotiate all options(only in Serbian terms though)you right,but Kosova doesn't have to negotiate with Serbia (About the status anyway)and we all know what Serbia's offer is to the K-Albanians.Any other negotiation must be as equals two sovereign states,on equal footing that's the only way. Recognised by the most powerful countries in the world,you cant say illegitimate entity. Slobodan Milosevic
thought the same about the K-Albanians(Illegitimate,Insignificant entity)and because of that we got our independence thanks to him.So please Kate lets not see each other as that.Thanks
I dont think Kosovo will be priority of USA or EU when the economic crisis ensues after the financial crack. Be it Obama or McCain, they will have to deal with the poor at home and not the poor abroad.
Quote: "Serbia does not recognize now nor will it ever recognize Kosovo's independence," Tadić said, adding that state policy on this issue would never change."
I am sure the Maya's, the Azteks, the Faroes, the Ceasars, and even Hitler firmly believed that they would rule forever and ever.
Unfortunately, reality thought differently. If I was Tadic, I would be careful about using such words.
Not suggesting only testing. mr Tadic Albanian lands are not a cattle market nor is the year we live on 1912. We live in the year 2008 in a year Serbia somehow wants to join EUROPEAN UNION.You are supposed to make the Serbs EU citizens instead you are testing how far you can get. Not very far.
I don't understand why I am continuously censured???
It is you Serbs that say that Kosova is the HEART and SOUL of Serbia and than if you could, you would be happy to divide it.
Tadic just said what every Serbs hopes- to grab at least a piece of land in Kosova, piece in Bosnia and if it could somewhere else. There is no HEART, SOUL etc thing here it is just a pure hegeministic ideology.
It is your hypocrisy not mine.
You "LOVE" Kosova but MOCK it everyday, think of her but DO NOT WANT TO LIVE in Kosova etc- all blunt hypocrisy words to hide the LAND GRAB ambitions.
It's not me it's you. I just highlight it. So why do you censur me?
Yesterday Tadic tried to float an unconstitutional trial balloon and every Albanian and almost every Serb, except perhaps Bganon, screamed No Way Jose!
Oh this insufferable lamentation.
Once the "West" said there will be no Kosovo independence and here we are!
Now they say No partition, bla..
-What else but partition of Kosovo and of course only Kosovo?-
Albanians refused to live with Serbs in a common state, why should Serbs live in an Albanian one? Irremovable facts have been created by dislodging Serbs from all other regions of Kosovo into Serbia or northern Kosovo - the last ressort! Serbs can not accept further impertinence.
Its time to close the chapter Kosovo.
When will Albanians stop behaving like spoiled childreen wanting all they see? Kosovo, Presevo, Montenegro, Macedonia, Cameria etc.
"It's not me it's you. I just highlight it. So why do you censur me?"
(ben, 1 October 2008 17:42)
I think that we are blood brothers, Ben, since yet another of my postings was "lost" yesterday. Is that nice, i ask?
As for partition(the issue at hand): i am very opposed to this concept, esp.ly in the Balkans. First, because it would be very disturbing to many, many people, and not in a good way. and once started, it would lead to endless more partitions. really, the more you think about it,the worse it seems.
but the other point, even more important, is that ethnic partition is impossible (never mind grossly immoral.) you cannot (in this day and age) get ethnically "clean" states, entities, unless you force out or murder endless numbers of people. does anyone really want this to happen -- again -- in the Balkans?
every nation on earth (that i am aware of) has ethnic diversity: tribes, religions, ethnicities, whatever. it is a reality, and we either accept and embrace it (as best we can) or it will haunt us, it will bite us in the butt. and has, too many times, and continues to do so (as in Darfur). it has resulted in so much misery! isn't that obvious? to me it is.
i do believe there can be ways, if and when all former YUGO countries are in the EU, to foster decentralization and further democratization, and to cement guarantees of civil rights, human rights for all. it won't happen by magic, but it CAN happen, and it will if there is the will.
I just don't understand your logic - you're cheering to divide/separate my Yugoslavia and pushed hard to split Serbia and now have your say - Bosnia shouldn't be divided, and now Kosovo - part of Serbia should stay as you see it - what a HYPOCRISY.
Mesic, by the way, taking full credit by repeating: I destroyed Yugoslavia, and in Bosnia - Serbs are the latest to form national party, as late response to fanatics of SDA and HDZ.
Take the facts/logic - not only feelings into comments.
He must have been surprised that somebody is listening to what he says, so he went into his spin mode.
First he said he would consider partition of Kosovo to clarify afterwards that he never meant that.
Rather clumsy damage control, if you ask me, but one does what one can.
As from now on, we should perhaps learn to keep our applause on hold (for a day or two) until Tadic decides how exactly he wants us to accept his utterances.
Serbia will never retrieve Kosova as it is gone just like the so called krajina and serb parts of bosnia. Being a Russian ally can only give you heartache and pain. We all know that the U.S is the powerhouse on this earth and that's the way it will stay. Kosova will never be partioned or returned to the Serbs because the U.S wont allow it. The American's rin the world not the U.N or the E.U, the are just puppets for the U.S. Grow up serbia it's just not going to happen..and by the way if you think that the Bos. serbs will join Serbia proper -think again.
Gojko: Serbia has no interest in Kosovo except North of the Ibar.
This is true! But in politics there is a saying: "Too little, too late!"
Had the Serbs realized that it is in their own interest to get rid of much of Kosovo BEFORE 1999, the partition of Kosovo could have been feasable! The Albanians probably would have accepted it, and the "international community" would have been faced with a fait accompli.
May be Serbia had a slim chance to achieve partition of Kosovo during the lengthy negotiations perceding the UDI.
Now it is siply too late! The most Serbs could hope for is an 'autonomy' of Mitrovica (within Kosovo) in exchange for an 'autonomy' of Persevo within Serbia! The persisting refusal of the various Serbian governments to negotiate with the K-Albanians as an equal (not as a subject) may continue to destroy Serbia's national chances!
We all know that what Mr Tadic is saying is just so he scores political points. We do also know that for as long as US will be based in Kosova there is & there will never be any partition.
With regards to the financial meltdown in US I do not see any other world player (i.e. Russia or China) taking any lead role. By now everybody should have understood that whatever happens in the US markets/economy affects the whole world.
I hope that the day when Kosova & Serbia are admitted in EU comes soon and that will naturally eliminate many of the current issues. It's always the politicians that cause the trouble!
"So my point of removing the occupation and all should fall into place."
Keep dreaming. 95% of the people don't feel occupied, they were liberated by NATO and NATO isn't going anywhere. All of Europe is a member and all the Balkan will be soon too.
Quote: "Serbia does not recognize now nor will it ever recognize Kosovo's independence," Tadić said, adding that state policy on this issue would never change."
I am sure the Maya's, the Azteks, the Faroes, the Ceasars, and even Hitler firmly believed that they would rule forever and ever.
Unfortunately, reality thought differently. If I was Tadic, I would be careful about using such words.
Not suggesting only testing. mr Tadic Albanian lands are not a cattle market nor is the year we live on 1912. We live in the year 2008 in a year Serbia somehow wants to join EUROPEAN UNION.You are supposed to make the Serbs EU citizens instead you are testing how far you can get. Not very far.
EU will not allow any partition. It's against what EU stands for, harmony and getting along. The only way it can get divided is North Mitrovica and that includes only 40% of Serbs. If you try to divide it differently, more Albanians than Serbs will be in that area.
Everyone knew this is what Serbs wanted after February so Tadic didn't say anything new. Of course you try to get as much and than settle for the best. I do think he hurt his chances with UN members but who knows.
I don't understand why I am continuously censured???
It is you Serbs that say that Kosova is the HEART and SOUL of Serbia and than if you could, you would be happy to divide it.
Tadic just said what every Serbs hopes- to grab at least a piece of land in Kosova, piece in Bosnia and if it could somewhere else. There is no HEART, SOUL etc thing here it is just a pure hegeministic ideology.
It is your hypocrisy not mine.
You "LOVE" Kosova but MOCK it everyday, think of her but DO NOT WANT TO LIVE in Kosova etc- all blunt hypocrisy words to hide the LAND GRAB ambitions.
It's not me it's you. I just highlight it. So why do you censur me?
In my comment yesterday i said:In the past i gave Mr Tadic more credit than he deserves,i think just shows that i was right. Must be pretty terrifying not to be able to see light at the end of the tunnel.
kate,
Tadic is doing the smart thing ahead of the ICJ ruling and showing that Serbia is prepared to discuss all options.
A sovereign state which is prepared to negotiate vs an illegitimate entity which refuses to contemplate anything other than all or nothing.
Serbia made a mockery of ICJ initiative with this statement that's my opinion.
I agree that Serbia is prepared to negotiate all options(only in Serbian terms though)you right,but Kosova doesn't have to negotiate with Serbia (About the status anyway)and we all know what Serbia's offer is to the K-Albanians.Any other negotiation must be as equals two sovereign states,on equal footing that's the only way. Recognised by the most powerful countries in the world,you cant say illegitimate entity. Slobodan Milosevic
thought the same about the K-Albanians(Illegitimate,Insignificant entity)and because of that we got our independence thanks to him.So please Kate lets not see each other as that.Thanks
If that ever did happen, how would a new war be avoided?
(kate, 1 October 2008 12:35)
--
Serbia has not chosen war after a very provocative move by NATO with the Albanians and I don't believe Serbia will do the same when the tables have turned. The Albanians will have to accept the reality which will give them practically everything they want but only within the borders of Serbia.
Remember, the problems in Kosovo were not at the "war" level until the US decided to support what they considered terroritsts at the time. I truly believe they were trained to provoke Serbia into increasing tensions so NATO had a reason to bomb and occupy our land.
War cannot be ruled out but I don't believe it will be the Serbians choosing that option.
No Luigi - Tadic is doing the smart thing ahead of the ICJ ruling and showing that Serbia is prepared to discuss all options.
A sovereign state which is prepared to negotiate vs an illegitimate entity which refuses to contemplate anything other than all or nothing. Which do you think stands in the stronger position?
By the way, I found your comments yesterday about Haradinaj being your hero for expelling Serbs extremely inappropriate and offensive.
I believe partition would be a very unpopular option as far as both Serbians and Albanians are concerned and I have no idea why Tadic would even mention it, but it does seem he is now backtracking. Hopefully that idea will be buried for good.
bganon and Kate, you both pointed out that somehow if the Serbians and Albanians came to some agreement then that should be respected. Personally, I can't see that as a possibility because I don't believe the Albanians have any say and this is not up for negotiation. The US simply whispers in their ear not to accept anything less than independence and that is as far as negotiations can go.
The Western states have an agenda and that is to be followed. Either Serbia submits (we become subservient) and they will leave us alone or we resist and defend our freedom (and international law). So tell me, when has the West negotiated with Serbia in good faith either recently or throughout the 90s? The simple answer is they didn't then so why should they now?
The way I see it is that the problem is not with the Albanians and Serbians coming to some agreement but that the US/NATO will not permit that because it threatens their occupation and control of the Balkans.
So my point of removing the occupation and all should fall into place. With the current financial meltdown, I can see that as a real possibility (and that doesn't mean taking up arms).
ZK UK: "So tell me, when has the West negotiated with Serbia in good faith either recently or throughout the 90s? The simple answer is they didn't then so why should they now?"
Well that is very true. I hope that you are right that there may be an alternative, but on the surface of it partition or some sort of federation such as in Bosnia (which seems to have been a disaster) seem the only practical solutions.
I can't see how the Kosovo Albanian leadership would agree to partition (but they may be forced to) let alone having to face the withdrawal of internationals which I can't see happening.
If that ever did happen, how would a new war be avoided?
Oh this insufferable lamentation.
Once the "West" said there will be no Kosovo independence and here we are!
Now they say No partition, bla..
-What else but partition of Kosovo and of course only Kosovo?-
Albanians refused to live with Serbs in a common state, why should Serbs live in an Albanian one? Irremovable facts have been created by dislodging Serbs from all other regions of Kosovo into Serbia or northern Kosovo - the last ressort! Serbs can not accept further impertinence.
Its time to close the chapter Kosovo.
When will Albanians stop behaving like spoiled childreen wanting all they see? Kosovo, Presevo, Montenegro, Macedonia, Cameria etc.
By mentioning a viable alternative solution to the UDI of Kosovo, Tadic has weakened the position of the West on Kosovo. This will only help the ICJ case.
Everyone knows that partition is in the works, otherwise why the actions Serbia has been taking in the North? It all points towards partition. Besides, we all know that you can not control an area that really does not want to be controlled. The same logic led me to the conclusion that we as Serbs can not force all the Albanians from Kosovo to live in our State.
A Dayton type solution for Kosovo didn’t work in Bosnia and won’t work in Kosovo. The only solution that will bring stability and lasting peace is partition.
Looks like Mr. Lyon of the ICG was completely wrong on how partition was to come about, he severely under-estimated Tadic’s commitment to peace and stability.
Let’s resolve this in a way that’s reasonable so we can all move forward. “Punishing” Serbia over and over again for Decades, for the crimes of Milosevic will only alienate the population and cause another war sometime in the future.
Serbs are a patient people, we can wait another 500 years for justice, can the EU afford to wait that long?
Tadić responded by setting out his already well-known views on state policy on Kosovo, stating he had not suggested partition, though it was something that could be considered once all other options had been exhausted.
If you're not in favour why should you consider it?It would be more favourable if you considered as a second alternative-the first being a
united Serbia with Kosovo-an
administrative system along the same line as Bosnia.A loose federation with each ethnicity taking care of its own affairs.Partition is also not an option within the context of Serbia and Kosovo joining the EU sometime in the near future.
Yesterday Tadic tried to float an unconstitutional trial balloon and every Albanian and almost every Serb, except perhaps Bganon, screamed No Way Jose!
I dont think Kosovo will be priority of USA or EU when the economic crisis ensues after the financial crack. Be it Obama or McCain, they will have to deal with the poor at home and not the poor abroad.
He must have been surprised that somebody is listening to what he says, so he went into his spin mode.
First he said he would consider partition of Kosovo to clarify afterwards that he never meant that.
Rather clumsy damage control, if you ask me, but one does what one can.
As from now on, we should perhaps learn to keep our applause on hold (for a day or two) until Tadic decides how exactly he wants us to accept his utterances.
Serbia will never retrieve Kosova as it is gone just like the so called krajina and serb parts of bosnia. Being a Russian ally can only give you heartache and pain. We all know that the U.S is the powerhouse on this earth and that's the way it will stay. Kosova will never be partioned or returned to the Serbs because the U.S wont allow it. The American's rin the world not the U.N or the E.U, the are just puppets for the U.S. Grow up serbia it's just not going to happen..and by the way if you think that the Bos. serbs will join Serbia proper -think again.
"It's not me it's you. I just highlight it. So why do you censur me?"
(ben, 1 October 2008 17:42)
I think that we are blood brothers, Ben, since yet another of my postings was "lost" yesterday. Is that nice, i ask?
As for partition(the issue at hand): i am very opposed to this concept, esp.ly in the Balkans. First, because it would be very disturbing to many, many people, and not in a good way. and once started, it would lead to endless more partitions. really, the more you think about it,the worse it seems.
but the other point, even more important, is that ethnic partition is impossible (never mind grossly immoral.) you cannot (in this day and age) get ethnically "clean" states, entities, unless you force out or murder endless numbers of people. does anyone really want this to happen -- again -- in the Balkans?
every nation on earth (that i am aware of) has ethnic diversity: tribes, religions, ethnicities, whatever. it is a reality, and we either accept and embrace it (as best we can) or it will haunt us, it will bite us in the butt. and has, too many times, and continues to do so (as in Darfur). it has resulted in so much misery! isn't that obvious? to me it is.
i do believe there can be ways, if and when all former YUGO countries are in the EU, to foster decentralization and further democratization, and to cement guarantees of civil rights, human rights for all. it won't happen by magic, but it CAN happen, and it will if there is the will.
I just don't understand your logic - you're cheering to divide/separate my Yugoslavia and pushed hard to split Serbia and now have your say - Bosnia shouldn't be divided, and now Kosovo - part of Serbia should stay as you see it - what a HYPOCRISY.
Mesic, by the way, taking full credit by repeating: I destroyed Yugoslavia, and in Bosnia - Serbs are the latest to form national party, as late response to fanatics of SDA and HDZ.
Take the facts/logic - not only feelings into comments.
Gojko: Serbia has no interest in Kosovo except North of the Ibar.
This is true! But in politics there is a saying: "Too little, too late!"
Had the Serbs realized that it is in their own interest to get rid of much of Kosovo BEFORE 1999, the partition of Kosovo could have been feasable! The Albanians probably would have accepted it, and the "international community" would have been faced with a fait accompli.
May be Serbia had a slim chance to achieve partition of Kosovo during the lengthy negotiations perceding the UDI.
Now it is siply too late! The most Serbs could hope for is an 'autonomy' of Mitrovica (within Kosovo) in exchange for an 'autonomy' of Persevo within Serbia! The persisting refusal of the various Serbian governments to negotiate with the K-Albanians as an equal (not as a subject) may continue to destroy Serbia's national chances!
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