18

Monday, 29.09.2008.

13:35

"120 states back Serbia in trial vote"

A German paper says trial voting at the UN revealed that 120 out of 192 UN member states would support Serbia's ICJ initiative.

Izvor: Beta

"120 states back Serbia in trial vote" IMAGE SOURCE
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18 Komentari

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Mikael C

pre 15 godina

America want the world to believe that it cares about other nations and people by supporting this or that. Kosovo albanians actually think that america likes them. The only thing they like is money and power. 25% of american children live in poverty. If they don't care about their own people they sure don't care about albanians or anyone else. They won't risk anything unless there is a profit. Tell them that they have to close their military base and they would not care if Kosovo is independent or not.

DEDA CVETKO

pre 15 godina

I urge German government, German political institutions, German media and - above all - German PEOPLE - to finally and at long last, drop their long-standing hostility to Serbia and all things Serbian, which is petty, counterproductive and not one bit befitting of the undoubted greatness and genius of the German nation. The two nations have much, much, more in common that that which separates us and (contrary to the popular belief) have been on rather friendly terms throughout much of the recorded history -- at least they were until Archduke's ill-advised 1914 Sarajevo picnic which did not go particularly well, causing Theo von Bethmann- Hollweg to go ballistic. What most Germans do not appear to understand is that German cultural, political, industrial and scientific influence in Serbia and on Serbs is second only to Russian and,in some ways, is EVEN greater, more profound and more durable (our admiration for Germans is second only to our fear of them). After all, almost quarter million Germans lived in Serbia until 1945 and left an indelible cultural and civilisatory imprint on every facet of Serbian life, and in more ways than one. This lasting influence should be maintained, sustained and nourished rather than discarded and left to die, and open hostility and bare-knuckled pursuit of historical vendetta is hardly the way to accomplish this noble goal. Do the right thing, Germany, and vote for the Serbian UN/ICJ proposal for Kosovo: after all, remember: if the world community had not respected the international law, Germany would never have been reunited. The reunification of Serbia will be the most wonderful news for Germany, as it will once and for all vindicate the German reunification and mark the beginning of the TRULY United Europe.

And, as an afterthought: let's not forget one minor detail: believe it or not, Archduke Ferdinand was a direct, 16th generation descendant of Prince Lazar Hrebeljanovic of Serbia. Our fates, our cultures, our histories and our bloodlines remain inextricably intertwined.

peter, sydney

pre 15 godina

EUFederalist:
> You guys need 128 countries on your side to pass the resolution.

As PJD has already stated, only a simple majority is needed.

Have earlier assumed that this would be 'half + 1' or 97 (= 192/2 + 1), but according to the UN 'rules of procedure:

http://www.un.org/ga/ropga_plenary.shtml

the following applies:

"Simple majority:
Decisions of the General Assembly on questions other than those provided for in rule 83, including the determination of additional categories of questions to be decided by a two-thirds majority, shall be made by a majority of the members present and voting."

"Meaning of the phrase "members present and voting:
For the purposes of these rules, the phrase "members present and voting" means members casting an affirmative or negative vote. Members which abstain from voting are considered as not voting."

and rule 83 is:
"Decisions of the General Assembly on important questions shall be made by a two-thirds majority of the members present and voting. These questions shall include: recommendations with respect to the maintenance of international peace and security, the election of the non-permanent members of the Security Council, the election of the members of the Economic and Social Council, the election of members of the Trusteeship Council in accordance with paragraph 1 c of Article 86 of the Charter, the admission of new Members to the United Nations, the suspension of the rights and privileges of membership, the expulsion of Members, questions relating to the operation of the trusteeship system, and budgetary questions.


My interpretation of the above is that:

1. A 'simple majority' is reached if there are more 'yeas' than 'nays'.

2. If a member 'abstains', then that country has no effect on the vote.

3. If a member is not present, then that country has no effect on the vote.

4. If a member has not paid it's dues, it cannot vote unless it is granted an exemption by the GA on grounds of extenuating circumstances. As of the 15th Sept, there are 7 countries in this category & they are:

Central African Republic, Comoros, Guinea-Bissau, Liberia, Sao Tome and Principe, Somalia & Tajikistan.

Source: http://www.un.org/ga/art19.shtml

Think I've got it right this time but am open to argument. Comments anyone?

roberto

pre 15 godina

The problem with arguing to "embrace this impartial, non-binding" arena is that we read the same things that you do (in my case, in english, primarily) and this is in no way a non-partial campaign. i just can't believe that ANYone would still believe that, or have the nerve to claim it.

this attempt is just the latest tool to control and dominate Kosovo/a, and the belgrade regime has admitted as much, again, and again, and again. jeremic says: isolation, or back to the table (on our terms.) pro-western (!) tadic says: no matter what happens, we will never recognize Kosovo/a! meanwhile, tadic refuses to come to the table with his counterpart in pristina; so much for the negotiating, compromising spirit. so i mean, who are you trying to kid? it is a bit intellectually offensive.

just admit the truth, that this is another "non-violent" shot in the battle -- just own up to it.

again, i want to thank our progressive frnds all over the world, INcluding inside serbia, for your supprt and encouragement in our struggle for freedom and independence. and when i say "our," i mean that in such times i am one with Kosova.

thank you.

roberto
frisco/sarajevo
robertoruss@yahoo.com

PJD

pre 15 godina

EUfederalist "You guys need 128 countries on your side to pass the resolution."

No only a simple majority is required for it to pass and not a 2/3 majority.

bganon

pre 15 godina

'Just look at the results of the poll that B92 is conducting'

Calm down Michael John, numbers most certainly do lie. How long is your memory? Remember the poll on who would form the next government of Serbia? Yep, the radicals won. Oh and I'm a martian.

If you werent so defensive about the whole ICJ action I might even listen, but I think your are simply worried at the outcome.

Embrace it going before ICJ. If you are so convinced of your own argument, surely you should support an impartial non-binding verdict.

Oh Those Russians !

pre 15 godina

Serb Allay

"WEST are now slowly loosing its face ..."

Brother what are you talking about ? Tell me a period in their history when the West did have a face , a shame or something of the kind ! All their history is full of mutual suspect , treason and hypocricy. This is where they are real masters we can never compete with !

Look if they are going to obstain from voting over the Serbian proposal isn't it a confession that they are wrong ? If they escape from this voting then how does it correlate to everithing they do to the Serbs ? What can we talk about if after that they had seen and heard in Tshinval they accused Russia of launching the war ? So stop using such words for them. As a materialist I know for sure that one cannot loose something one has never obtained !

Also I doubt it that they will get what they want. We live in quite a new and fast changing world where the Anglo-Saxon World is loosing it's suddenly obtained strength. August 8 two new Superpowers has introduced themselves. One has shown it's economical and other achievements while the other has demostrated it's increased military force and the revived will power. So nothing is lost for Serbia . Just be patient.

Regards !

Michael John

pre 15 godina

If you are a Serb then you should be worried of the outcome of the vote of the UN GA on Oct.8th. Since all 192 countries are currently reviewing the events of 1999 they will be reminded of the brutal and inhuman treatment of the Albanians of Kosova by the Serb gov't, its people and the Serb Church. It won't be difficult to convince civilized people of all countries of the world what crimes against humanity the Serbs committed. Just look at what the Serbs did, all trough the 1990's, to the Slovenians, Croats, Bosnians and the Albanians of the former Yugoslavia. All those hundreds of thousands of graves in Former Yugoslavia are filled with victims of the Serbs.

Even most decent Serbs think that the vote at the GA will be against Serbia. Just look at the results of the poll that B92 is conducting and you will see that the vote is 3 to 2 against the Serb Initiative ever going before the ICJ. About 750 against to 500 for going before the ICJ. That is 50% more for a NO vote. Numbers do not lie.

EUFederalist

pre 15 godina

You guys need 128 countries on your side to pass the resolution.

From our count, that will not happen, but who knows what Serbia promises these countries.

dd

pre 15 godina

To all honest, reasonable and democratic people:

Who is afraid of court and justice???

Ko se boji pravde jos???

All honest, normal and average smart people should know the answer for this simple question.

Dashnori i Satam

pre 15 godina

I don't think any of these has failed to get the vote so this on e will too. Although tits being used to delay, technically its a legitimate issue. . The absolute best case scenario for Serbs is North Mitrovica. 88% of minerals are south of it.

Dragan

pre 15 godina

The attempted theft of 15% of sovereign Serbian land by the modern day colonialists is backfiring. It seems that only a small portion of the world is listening, and the bankrupt US economy has no money to bribe more lapdogs.
I am proud that Serbia is a shining example to the world that justice can prevail over brute force. Serbia has exposed to the world how hypocritical, arrogant, myopic, and unjust the US/UK/Germany are and how outdated their colonial methods of intimidation, threats, and bribery are.
Let this be a lesson to all freedom loving nations out there, you don't have to listen to these bullies who only want to enslave you to further their selfish interests.

Viti i Balit

pre 15 godina

Lets see how many of this 120 States will hang around until the time comes to vote.Like i said before,this will not change anything Kosova is looking forward, doing its best to integrate in european union as an Independent Country,meanwhile Serbia doing its best to stop any progress,and in a process stoping itself from going anywhere.

Serb Allay,

kosovo issue will be an additional "frozen conflict" in the world.

Kosova is in europe not in middle east.If i was a serb i would question your aliance and loyalty towards the serbs,here is the reason, as an allay you should tell the serbs that if Kosova ends up being a "frozen conflic" Serbia will be frozen in time as well until Kosova unfreezes, thats what friends do.Thanks

Peter Sudyka

pre 15 godina

I really admire Serbia's conviction regarding Kosovo, if indeed they manage to secure this amount of states as backing, it will definitely be a reward in itself and a bit of a cold shower for the West.

Serb Allay

pre 15 godina

If this is true then it is good news for Serbia. the WEST are now slowly loosing its face on the kosovo issue. thus the kosovo issue will be an additional "frozen conflict" in the world.

And it proves that the "western dictators" will not get what they want.

peter, sydney

pre 15 godina

More bad news for the US & 'brussels'.

First they tried to pressure Serbia into backing down, then they tried to get Serbia to change the draft, then they attempted the 'bloc vote' tactic in regard to the EU, & now this.

Question now is just how many states that have recognised 'pseudo-state' will vote for Serbia's initiative before the GA in an attempt to appear 'fair-minded' as opposed to those others who actually intended to anyway such as Luxembourg?

Peter Sudyka

pre 15 godina

I really admire Serbia's conviction regarding Kosovo, if indeed they manage to secure this amount of states as backing, it will definitely be a reward in itself and a bit of a cold shower for the West.

Serb Allay

pre 15 godina

If this is true then it is good news for Serbia. the WEST are now slowly loosing its face on the kosovo issue. thus the kosovo issue will be an additional "frozen conflict" in the world.

And it proves that the "western dictators" will not get what they want.

peter, sydney

pre 15 godina

More bad news for the US & 'brussels'.

First they tried to pressure Serbia into backing down, then they tried to get Serbia to change the draft, then they attempted the 'bloc vote' tactic in regard to the EU, & now this.

Question now is just how many states that have recognised 'pseudo-state' will vote for Serbia's initiative before the GA in an attempt to appear 'fair-minded' as opposed to those others who actually intended to anyway such as Luxembourg?

Dragan

pre 15 godina

The attempted theft of 15% of sovereign Serbian land by the modern day colonialists is backfiring. It seems that only a small portion of the world is listening, and the bankrupt US economy has no money to bribe more lapdogs.
I am proud that Serbia is a shining example to the world that justice can prevail over brute force. Serbia has exposed to the world how hypocritical, arrogant, myopic, and unjust the US/UK/Germany are and how outdated their colonial methods of intimidation, threats, and bribery are.
Let this be a lesson to all freedom loving nations out there, you don't have to listen to these bullies who only want to enslave you to further their selfish interests.

dd

pre 15 godina

To all honest, reasonable and democratic people:

Who is afraid of court and justice???

Ko se boji pravde jos???

All honest, normal and average smart people should know the answer for this simple question.

Oh Those Russians !

pre 15 godina

Serb Allay

"WEST are now slowly loosing its face ..."

Brother what are you talking about ? Tell me a period in their history when the West did have a face , a shame or something of the kind ! All their history is full of mutual suspect , treason and hypocricy. This is where they are real masters we can never compete with !

Look if they are going to obstain from voting over the Serbian proposal isn't it a confession that they are wrong ? If they escape from this voting then how does it correlate to everithing they do to the Serbs ? What can we talk about if after that they had seen and heard in Tshinval they accused Russia of launching the war ? So stop using such words for them. As a materialist I know for sure that one cannot loose something one has never obtained !

Also I doubt it that they will get what they want. We live in quite a new and fast changing world where the Anglo-Saxon World is loosing it's suddenly obtained strength. August 8 two new Superpowers has introduced themselves. One has shown it's economical and other achievements while the other has demostrated it's increased military force and the revived will power. So nothing is lost for Serbia . Just be patient.

Regards !

PJD

pre 15 godina

EUfederalist "You guys need 128 countries on your side to pass the resolution."

No only a simple majority is required for it to pass and not a 2/3 majority.

Viti i Balit

pre 15 godina

Lets see how many of this 120 States will hang around until the time comes to vote.Like i said before,this will not change anything Kosova is looking forward, doing its best to integrate in european union as an Independent Country,meanwhile Serbia doing its best to stop any progress,and in a process stoping itself from going anywhere.

Serb Allay,

kosovo issue will be an additional "frozen conflict" in the world.

Kosova is in europe not in middle east.If i was a serb i would question your aliance and loyalty towards the serbs,here is the reason, as an allay you should tell the serbs that if Kosova ends up being a "frozen conflic" Serbia will be frozen in time as well until Kosova unfreezes, thats what friends do.Thanks

Michael John

pre 15 godina

If you are a Serb then you should be worried of the outcome of the vote of the UN GA on Oct.8th. Since all 192 countries are currently reviewing the events of 1999 they will be reminded of the brutal and inhuman treatment of the Albanians of Kosova by the Serb gov't, its people and the Serb Church. It won't be difficult to convince civilized people of all countries of the world what crimes against humanity the Serbs committed. Just look at what the Serbs did, all trough the 1990's, to the Slovenians, Croats, Bosnians and the Albanians of the former Yugoslavia. All those hundreds of thousands of graves in Former Yugoslavia are filled with victims of the Serbs.

Even most decent Serbs think that the vote at the GA will be against Serbia. Just look at the results of the poll that B92 is conducting and you will see that the vote is 3 to 2 against the Serb Initiative ever going before the ICJ. About 750 against to 500 for going before the ICJ. That is 50% more for a NO vote. Numbers do not lie.

bganon

pre 15 godina

'Just look at the results of the poll that B92 is conducting'

Calm down Michael John, numbers most certainly do lie. How long is your memory? Remember the poll on who would form the next government of Serbia? Yep, the radicals won. Oh and I'm a martian.

If you werent so defensive about the whole ICJ action I might even listen, but I think your are simply worried at the outcome.

Embrace it going before ICJ. If you are so convinced of your own argument, surely you should support an impartial non-binding verdict.

Dashnori i Satam

pre 15 godina

I don't think any of these has failed to get the vote so this on e will too. Although tits being used to delay, technically its a legitimate issue. . The absolute best case scenario for Serbs is North Mitrovica. 88% of minerals are south of it.

roberto

pre 15 godina

The problem with arguing to "embrace this impartial, non-binding" arena is that we read the same things that you do (in my case, in english, primarily) and this is in no way a non-partial campaign. i just can't believe that ANYone would still believe that, or have the nerve to claim it.

this attempt is just the latest tool to control and dominate Kosovo/a, and the belgrade regime has admitted as much, again, and again, and again. jeremic says: isolation, or back to the table (on our terms.) pro-western (!) tadic says: no matter what happens, we will never recognize Kosovo/a! meanwhile, tadic refuses to come to the table with his counterpart in pristina; so much for the negotiating, compromising spirit. so i mean, who are you trying to kid? it is a bit intellectually offensive.

just admit the truth, that this is another "non-violent" shot in the battle -- just own up to it.

again, i want to thank our progressive frnds all over the world, INcluding inside serbia, for your supprt and encouragement in our struggle for freedom and independence. and when i say "our," i mean that in such times i am one with Kosova.

thank you.

roberto
frisco/sarajevo
robertoruss@yahoo.com

peter, sydney

pre 15 godina

EUFederalist:
> You guys need 128 countries on your side to pass the resolution.

As PJD has already stated, only a simple majority is needed.

Have earlier assumed that this would be 'half + 1' or 97 (= 192/2 + 1), but according to the UN 'rules of procedure:

http://www.un.org/ga/ropga_plenary.shtml

the following applies:

"Simple majority:
Decisions of the General Assembly on questions other than those provided for in rule 83, including the determination of additional categories of questions to be decided by a two-thirds majority, shall be made by a majority of the members present and voting."

"Meaning of the phrase "members present and voting:
For the purposes of these rules, the phrase "members present and voting" means members casting an affirmative or negative vote. Members which abstain from voting are considered as not voting."

and rule 83 is:
"Decisions of the General Assembly on important questions shall be made by a two-thirds majority of the members present and voting. These questions shall include: recommendations with respect to the maintenance of international peace and security, the election of the non-permanent members of the Security Council, the election of the members of the Economic and Social Council, the election of members of the Trusteeship Council in accordance with paragraph 1 c of Article 86 of the Charter, the admission of new Members to the United Nations, the suspension of the rights and privileges of membership, the expulsion of Members, questions relating to the operation of the trusteeship system, and budgetary questions.


My interpretation of the above is that:

1. A 'simple majority' is reached if there are more 'yeas' than 'nays'.

2. If a member 'abstains', then that country has no effect on the vote.

3. If a member is not present, then that country has no effect on the vote.

4. If a member has not paid it's dues, it cannot vote unless it is granted an exemption by the GA on grounds of extenuating circumstances. As of the 15th Sept, there are 7 countries in this category & they are:

Central African Republic, Comoros, Guinea-Bissau, Liberia, Sao Tome and Principe, Somalia & Tajikistan.

Source: http://www.un.org/ga/art19.shtml

Think I've got it right this time but am open to argument. Comments anyone?

EUFederalist

pre 15 godina

You guys need 128 countries on your side to pass the resolution.

From our count, that will not happen, but who knows what Serbia promises these countries.

DEDA CVETKO

pre 15 godina

I urge German government, German political institutions, German media and - above all - German PEOPLE - to finally and at long last, drop their long-standing hostility to Serbia and all things Serbian, which is petty, counterproductive and not one bit befitting of the undoubted greatness and genius of the German nation. The two nations have much, much, more in common that that which separates us and (contrary to the popular belief) have been on rather friendly terms throughout much of the recorded history -- at least they were until Archduke's ill-advised 1914 Sarajevo picnic which did not go particularly well, causing Theo von Bethmann- Hollweg to go ballistic. What most Germans do not appear to understand is that German cultural, political, industrial and scientific influence in Serbia and on Serbs is second only to Russian and,in some ways, is EVEN greater, more profound and more durable (our admiration for Germans is second only to our fear of them). After all, almost quarter million Germans lived in Serbia until 1945 and left an indelible cultural and civilisatory imprint on every facet of Serbian life, and in more ways than one. This lasting influence should be maintained, sustained and nourished rather than discarded and left to die, and open hostility and bare-knuckled pursuit of historical vendetta is hardly the way to accomplish this noble goal. Do the right thing, Germany, and vote for the Serbian UN/ICJ proposal for Kosovo: after all, remember: if the world community had not respected the international law, Germany would never have been reunited. The reunification of Serbia will be the most wonderful news for Germany, as it will once and for all vindicate the German reunification and mark the beginning of the TRULY United Europe.

And, as an afterthought: let's not forget one minor detail: believe it or not, Archduke Ferdinand was a direct, 16th generation descendant of Prince Lazar Hrebeljanovic of Serbia. Our fates, our cultures, our histories and our bloodlines remain inextricably intertwined.

Mikael C

pre 15 godina

America want the world to believe that it cares about other nations and people by supporting this or that. Kosovo albanians actually think that america likes them. The only thing they like is money and power. 25% of american children live in poverty. If they don't care about their own people they sure don't care about albanians or anyone else. They won't risk anything unless there is a profit. Tell them that they have to close their military base and they would not care if Kosovo is independent or not.

Viti i Balit

pre 15 godina

Lets see how many of this 120 States will hang around until the time comes to vote.Like i said before,this will not change anything Kosova is looking forward, doing its best to integrate in european union as an Independent Country,meanwhile Serbia doing its best to stop any progress,and in a process stoping itself from going anywhere.

Serb Allay,

kosovo issue will be an additional "frozen conflict" in the world.

Kosova is in europe not in middle east.If i was a serb i would question your aliance and loyalty towards the serbs,here is the reason, as an allay you should tell the serbs that if Kosova ends up being a "frozen conflic" Serbia will be frozen in time as well until Kosova unfreezes, thats what friends do.Thanks

Dashnori i Satam

pre 15 godina

I don't think any of these has failed to get the vote so this on e will too. Although tits being used to delay, technically its a legitimate issue. . The absolute best case scenario for Serbs is North Mitrovica. 88% of minerals are south of it.

EUFederalist

pre 15 godina

You guys need 128 countries on your side to pass the resolution.

From our count, that will not happen, but who knows what Serbia promises these countries.

Michael John

pre 15 godina

If you are a Serb then you should be worried of the outcome of the vote of the UN GA on Oct.8th. Since all 192 countries are currently reviewing the events of 1999 they will be reminded of the brutal and inhuman treatment of the Albanians of Kosova by the Serb gov't, its people and the Serb Church. It won't be difficult to convince civilized people of all countries of the world what crimes against humanity the Serbs committed. Just look at what the Serbs did, all trough the 1990's, to the Slovenians, Croats, Bosnians and the Albanians of the former Yugoslavia. All those hundreds of thousands of graves in Former Yugoslavia are filled with victims of the Serbs.

Even most decent Serbs think that the vote at the GA will be against Serbia. Just look at the results of the poll that B92 is conducting and you will see that the vote is 3 to 2 against the Serb Initiative ever going before the ICJ. About 750 against to 500 for going before the ICJ. That is 50% more for a NO vote. Numbers do not lie.

Serb Allay

pre 15 godina

If this is true then it is good news for Serbia. the WEST are now slowly loosing its face on the kosovo issue. thus the kosovo issue will be an additional "frozen conflict" in the world.

And it proves that the "western dictators" will not get what they want.

Peter Sudyka

pre 15 godina

I really admire Serbia's conviction regarding Kosovo, if indeed they manage to secure this amount of states as backing, it will definitely be a reward in itself and a bit of a cold shower for the West.

peter, sydney

pre 15 godina

More bad news for the US & 'brussels'.

First they tried to pressure Serbia into backing down, then they tried to get Serbia to change the draft, then they attempted the 'bloc vote' tactic in regard to the EU, & now this.

Question now is just how many states that have recognised 'pseudo-state' will vote for Serbia's initiative before the GA in an attempt to appear 'fair-minded' as opposed to those others who actually intended to anyway such as Luxembourg?

Dragan

pre 15 godina

The attempted theft of 15% of sovereign Serbian land by the modern day colonialists is backfiring. It seems that only a small portion of the world is listening, and the bankrupt US economy has no money to bribe more lapdogs.
I am proud that Serbia is a shining example to the world that justice can prevail over brute force. Serbia has exposed to the world how hypocritical, arrogant, myopic, and unjust the US/UK/Germany are and how outdated their colonial methods of intimidation, threats, and bribery are.
Let this be a lesson to all freedom loving nations out there, you don't have to listen to these bullies who only want to enslave you to further their selfish interests.

PJD

pre 15 godina

EUfederalist "You guys need 128 countries on your side to pass the resolution."

No only a simple majority is required for it to pass and not a 2/3 majority.

Oh Those Russians !

pre 15 godina

Serb Allay

"WEST are now slowly loosing its face ..."

Brother what are you talking about ? Tell me a period in their history when the West did have a face , a shame or something of the kind ! All their history is full of mutual suspect , treason and hypocricy. This is where they are real masters we can never compete with !

Look if they are going to obstain from voting over the Serbian proposal isn't it a confession that they are wrong ? If they escape from this voting then how does it correlate to everithing they do to the Serbs ? What can we talk about if after that they had seen and heard in Tshinval they accused Russia of launching the war ? So stop using such words for them. As a materialist I know for sure that one cannot loose something one has never obtained !

Also I doubt it that they will get what they want. We live in quite a new and fast changing world where the Anglo-Saxon World is loosing it's suddenly obtained strength. August 8 two new Superpowers has introduced themselves. One has shown it's economical and other achievements while the other has demostrated it's increased military force and the revived will power. So nothing is lost for Serbia . Just be patient.

Regards !

DEDA CVETKO

pre 15 godina

I urge German government, German political institutions, German media and - above all - German PEOPLE - to finally and at long last, drop their long-standing hostility to Serbia and all things Serbian, which is petty, counterproductive and not one bit befitting of the undoubted greatness and genius of the German nation. The two nations have much, much, more in common that that which separates us and (contrary to the popular belief) have been on rather friendly terms throughout much of the recorded history -- at least they were until Archduke's ill-advised 1914 Sarajevo picnic which did not go particularly well, causing Theo von Bethmann- Hollweg to go ballistic. What most Germans do not appear to understand is that German cultural, political, industrial and scientific influence in Serbia and on Serbs is second only to Russian and,in some ways, is EVEN greater, more profound and more durable (our admiration for Germans is second only to our fear of them). After all, almost quarter million Germans lived in Serbia until 1945 and left an indelible cultural and civilisatory imprint on every facet of Serbian life, and in more ways than one. This lasting influence should be maintained, sustained and nourished rather than discarded and left to die, and open hostility and bare-knuckled pursuit of historical vendetta is hardly the way to accomplish this noble goal. Do the right thing, Germany, and vote for the Serbian UN/ICJ proposal for Kosovo: after all, remember: if the world community had not respected the international law, Germany would never have been reunited. The reunification of Serbia will be the most wonderful news for Germany, as it will once and for all vindicate the German reunification and mark the beginning of the TRULY United Europe.

And, as an afterthought: let's not forget one minor detail: believe it or not, Archduke Ferdinand was a direct, 16th generation descendant of Prince Lazar Hrebeljanovic of Serbia. Our fates, our cultures, our histories and our bloodlines remain inextricably intertwined.

bganon

pre 15 godina

'Just look at the results of the poll that B92 is conducting'

Calm down Michael John, numbers most certainly do lie. How long is your memory? Remember the poll on who would form the next government of Serbia? Yep, the radicals won. Oh and I'm a martian.

If you werent so defensive about the whole ICJ action I might even listen, but I think your are simply worried at the outcome.

Embrace it going before ICJ. If you are so convinced of your own argument, surely you should support an impartial non-binding verdict.

peter, sydney

pre 15 godina

EUFederalist:
> You guys need 128 countries on your side to pass the resolution.

As PJD has already stated, only a simple majority is needed.

Have earlier assumed that this would be 'half + 1' or 97 (= 192/2 + 1), but according to the UN 'rules of procedure:

http://www.un.org/ga/ropga_plenary.shtml

the following applies:

"Simple majority:
Decisions of the General Assembly on questions other than those provided for in rule 83, including the determination of additional categories of questions to be decided by a two-thirds majority, shall be made by a majority of the members present and voting."

"Meaning of the phrase "members present and voting:
For the purposes of these rules, the phrase "members present and voting" means members casting an affirmative or negative vote. Members which abstain from voting are considered as not voting."

and rule 83 is:
"Decisions of the General Assembly on important questions shall be made by a two-thirds majority of the members present and voting. These questions shall include: recommendations with respect to the maintenance of international peace and security, the election of the non-permanent members of the Security Council, the election of the members of the Economic and Social Council, the election of members of the Trusteeship Council in accordance with paragraph 1 c of Article 86 of the Charter, the admission of new Members to the United Nations, the suspension of the rights and privileges of membership, the expulsion of Members, questions relating to the operation of the trusteeship system, and budgetary questions.


My interpretation of the above is that:

1. A 'simple majority' is reached if there are more 'yeas' than 'nays'.

2. If a member 'abstains', then that country has no effect on the vote.

3. If a member is not present, then that country has no effect on the vote.

4. If a member has not paid it's dues, it cannot vote unless it is granted an exemption by the GA on grounds of extenuating circumstances. As of the 15th Sept, there are 7 countries in this category & they are:

Central African Republic, Comoros, Guinea-Bissau, Liberia, Sao Tome and Principe, Somalia & Tajikistan.

Source: http://www.un.org/ga/art19.shtml

Think I've got it right this time but am open to argument. Comments anyone?

roberto

pre 15 godina

The problem with arguing to "embrace this impartial, non-binding" arena is that we read the same things that you do (in my case, in english, primarily) and this is in no way a non-partial campaign. i just can't believe that ANYone would still believe that, or have the nerve to claim it.

this attempt is just the latest tool to control and dominate Kosovo/a, and the belgrade regime has admitted as much, again, and again, and again. jeremic says: isolation, or back to the table (on our terms.) pro-western (!) tadic says: no matter what happens, we will never recognize Kosovo/a! meanwhile, tadic refuses to come to the table with his counterpart in pristina; so much for the negotiating, compromising spirit. so i mean, who are you trying to kid? it is a bit intellectually offensive.

just admit the truth, that this is another "non-violent" shot in the battle -- just own up to it.

again, i want to thank our progressive frnds all over the world, INcluding inside serbia, for your supprt and encouragement in our struggle for freedom and independence. and when i say "our," i mean that in such times i am one with Kosova.

thank you.

roberto
frisco/sarajevo
robertoruss@yahoo.com

Mikael C

pre 15 godina

America want the world to believe that it cares about other nations and people by supporting this or that. Kosovo albanians actually think that america likes them. The only thing they like is money and power. 25% of american children live in poverty. If they don't care about their own people they sure don't care about albanians or anyone else. They won't risk anything unless there is a profit. Tell them that they have to close their military base and they would not care if Kosovo is independent or not.

dd

pre 15 godina

To all honest, reasonable and democratic people:

Who is afraid of court and justice???

Ko se boji pravde jos???

All honest, normal and average smart people should know the answer for this simple question.