Frattini: EU states to abstain

The fence upon which the EU sits is about to break under the pressure of all the new members.

What a bunch of chickens! They should be in favour of a legal ruling more than anyone, because it will help to clarify the EU role under the UN umbrella and UNSCR 1244.

I just wonder whether the US is now a permanent part of the EU?! Or just a sleeping partner.

"Italian foreign minister said that he hoped that a solution would be found to allow the deployment of the EULEX mission"

- what a realisation that EULEX is illegal without a UN mandate and must in the first instance be aacceptable to Serbia - after all Kosovo & Metohija remains the UN recognised and sovereign province of Serbia irrespective of some countries acting against international norms and laws. Interesting to see how US and EU technocrats sell this to the likes of sediju and Thaci who must be starting to realise their US inspired pipe dream is going up in smoke!!!

Oh what a tangled web EU weave...

Luigi,
England not part of Europe you say?
I hope you are not a teacher of geography.

Luigi: "The "English "kate always tell us how to behave !!"

I can't remember ever telling you how to behave, Luigi. Don't take my comments about respecting international law and hoping that the EU becomes less entrenched with US foreign policy so personally.

"As far as i'm concerned England too is out of Europe..a lonely island in the Atlantic..a dead place..."

England is not an island, Luigi, Britain is an island. A lot of people in Britain would probably agree that we're not in Europe (I'm starting to feel the same way myself at times)! But geographical facts are geographical facts.

And I have to say for my own country that no matter how many numpties are running it [down] at any one time, England is a beautiful country. Especially if you see areas outside of Dover and crappy seaside resorts on the south coast.

London is a fabulous city, but just like any other city (Belgrade included) it is expensive and tough and a terrible place to be lonely.

In my own mind Britain and Serbia are both European. Unfortunately, Europe seems to be run nowadays by France, Germany and the US, which both our countries suffer from.

have only one question for Jeremic/Tadic! What will he do if ICJ rules in favor of Kosova? Will the Serbian government recognize Kosova straightway as an independent neighbour country (as they have never mentioned what they will do)? If he doesn't intend to do that, what is the point of all this!
(Skenderbeu, 29 September 2008 14:27)

Fair question. If ICJ rules against Serbia, I think they should. But, would Sediju/Thaci and Albanians forget about independence and do the same if ICJ rules in favor of Serbia?
Waiting for your answer.Just strait Yes or No would be appreciated.

Abstention? Ha! You've got to be kidding me. Hasn't the EU been the main contributor to this latest adventure in colonialism? I mean they even appointed their own pasha to run Kosovo, who only yesterday boasted that such a ruling would mean nothing. And now these guys are talking about not even voting "No"? That's precious.

I wonder what the US will vote? In some ways, I could actually respect a "No" vote far more than an abstention. The mouth flaps in the wind all the time, but when push comes to shove, don't be tight lipped. Vote with your foreign policy. Or do some countries not agree with the foreign policy they pursued?

Oh and Kate, I'm sure you don't need my help in brushing off the criticism you get here from the usual suspects. Your comments are always some of the most thought provoking and painfully honest of any of us. It's a pleasure to see you back here!

I have only one question for Jeremic/Tadic! What will he do if ICJ rules in favor of Kosova? Will the Serbian government recognize Kosova straightway as an independent neighbour country (as they have never mentioned what they will do)? If he doesn't intend to do that, what is the point of all this!
(Skenderbeu, 29 September 2008 14:27)


so let me get this straight... if the ICJ somehow rules in favour of the albanians, you say Serbia should immediately recognize Kosovo as an independent country?? but if the ICJ rules in favour of Serbia it means absolutely nothing to the Albanians in Kosovo and you will continue to be permanent tourists on Serbian soil???

Note the phrase 'most probably abstain' above. Interesting wording. Implies that agreement has not yet been reached among EU member states about a 'bloc vote', but should be soon.

Only problem for Frattini & his brussels cohorts is that Cyprus has already definitively said it will support Serbia's initiative at the GA on the 8th:

http://www.innercitypress.com/unga1cyprus092708.html

Which shatters any consensus & gives new meaning to the phrase 'most probably abstain'.

Tymi: "EU is offering the hand to Serbia to overcome economical problems."

No, part of the EU is genuinely trying to help Serbia, but those countries are not strong enough to dictate or strongly influence EU policy.

The EU should never have supported this US driven move to steal 15% of Serbia's sovereign territory. There is no consistant message from the EU, and now the trade deal has been blocked.

Tying economic cooperation to the ICTY or Kosovo is backward and counterproductive. Membership to the EU should not be used as a beating stick, especially by the US which should have nothing to do with European affairs.

"... without US, even you in UK would talk and write German now. Or Russian before you left for UK."

Oh Lordy, you remind me of some English football fans on TV in Belgium saying just that to the local police as they were arrested in a drunken stupour. "You'd be speaking German if it wasn't for us".

That sort of low level statement is unworthy of comment.

As for the bit about Russian - what exactly do you mean by that? Are you supposing I must be Russian now? There are plenty of English people (on here included) who are educated and opinionated enough to hold their own beliefs on this issue. After all it affects all Europeans.

@(Dashnori i Ceces, 29 September 2008 17:13)


That’s what I thought your answer is going to be. It was a trick question and you fell for it. That’s why Serbia will never give up Kosovo. There’s no reasoning with you people. And that’s why K-Albanians are going to be losers when all the dust settles down.

Well Luigi lets see the UK is the third most powerful countryin NATO according to the USA. As for the UK not in Europe i wish that was correct. As for being dead i think not, more people want to get into the UK than any other EU country. France and Germany leading the way i think not again. Tymi as for speaking German if it wasnt for the YAnks, well not true is it. The British stood firm against the Third Reich for 2 years before the Yanks got involved, the battle of Britian was a victory by us the Brits.

As for Kate she has the right to her opinion thats the beauty of being British, freedom of speech.

Now on the subject of the ICJ ruling many Brits support Serbia, good luck on Oct 8th (i think thats the date)

Serbia and Serbia only is requesting a NON binding opinion from the ICJ. I think pretty much everyone on the other side of the table have said it will make no difference in the way they conduct business in the future.
(hey-hey, 29 September 2008 16:37)

that's what they are saying, but just like when they pushed for kosovo's independence or for the attack on iraq that doesn't mean that they will be able to continue with such policies. it has been shown that these "coalitions of the willing" are not as omni-potent as they apparently believe. and this is not just serbia's issue. many countries in the world are not happy about unilateral acts of western countries (which happen to be their former colonial masters). and with the rise of the likes of russia, china and india we could see these countries implementing unilateral acts as well if they are powerful enough (see what happened to georgia).

the icj ruling in favour of serbia would take away the pressure on weaker countries to recognise kosovo since they would have a legal argument. that in turn means that kosovo would remain a frozen conflict with all disadvanteges of that status. depending on how serbia acts that could even hurt kosovo's economy significantly. it will be very difficult to isolate a democratic serbia and even more so if serbia is acting in accordance with the international law (which tis ruling would prove) and it is very unlikely that the eu countries want to isolate serbia again anyway.

i guess the hope is that kosovo will find itself in a situation where albanians striking a deal with serbs (because they will continue living next to them) rather than relying on support from the us would bring advantages to kosovo, so the people in the kosovo administration (both albanians and foreigners) would agree on new negotiations.

globally the hope is that the most powerful countries in the world will realise that their wealth and military power is not enough for them to be able to implement policies that weaker countries oppose.

The "English "kate always tell us how to behave !!
As far as i'm concerned England too is out of Europe..a lonely island in the Atlantic..a dead place...
(Luigi, 29 September 2008 13:47)
--
Luigi, well I think many British would support your point about Britian not begin European and I'm sure many here would be glad to be out of the EU but I really don't know where you got "lonely and dead".

Come and visit some time and you'll see how congested and busy it is here! If only it was a little more "dead", I wouldn't have to spend so much time in traffic congestion.

zorank@email.com

Am I the only person (ordinary, not a politician) on this planet to see this or what?

All this, ICJ saga, Serbia's initiative, then some EU leaders publicly asking them not to do it etc, and now the same EU leaders claiming they will abstain, all this, is a trap.
Yes you heard me right, its a trap and you, Serbia's citizens, not current government included, are falling for it.

Here is why?

The moment that EU leaders said, publicly, to Serbia's gov, don't do it because it will harm our relation etc, this was a message to Serbia's people and not Serbia's gov. I will explain this later why to Serbia's people and not the current Gov.

Current Serbia's Gov knows the truth and reality hence they are taking this ICJ, knowing very well that they will lose the case. But they are doing this only so they can tell their own people that it is ICJ ruling and not theirs, hence they are not to blame. By taking this road, the current government, especially young Jeremic and co will end up as heroes. You only need to analyze his speeches, "we are winning this", "we will win that" etc. They're already preparing their own people, or shall I say, they are brainwashing them with the repetitious word " We are winning".
Now, the EU will abstain, obviously they will, because that's the whole plan. To allow the current Serbia's gov to remove the blame from them when ICJ rules pro EU(most of them) & Kosova.

Once Serbia wins this step, allowed to be in front of ICJ, then Serbia's Gov will allow EULEX to deploy all over Kosova. Not that EULEX really needs Serbia's permission, especially not the countries that recognized Kosova, but they are doing this, because they don't want to look like they are using force to deploy. Serbia can slow their deployment and cause trouble, by using innocent Serbs, but cannot stop EULEX nor Kosova for their goals.

Why will Serbia allow EULEX in Kosova now, you might ask? Because just like with UNMIK, remember they told their own people that UNMIK is temporary and we will get Kosova back in due course. The same with EULEX, they will say that we will allow them temporary until the ICJ ruling which we (they, Serbia of course) will win. With these false hopes, just like with UNMIK, the Serbian people will live and start to accept EULEX.
By the time the ICJ will be active and heard, EULEX will be very well deployed and active all over Kosova, especially in Northern Mitrovica. By this time the Serbs gangsters of Kostunica & Co will have left Northern Mitrovica because there won't be contrabands and smuggling for them nor wages from Kostunica & Co. The ordinary people, including the K-Serbs will start to breath from this chaos and fears that they've lived for the last 8 years now. In northern Mitrovica, once again, the law will be respected otherwise everyone will face the appropriate consequences if the law is broken, unlike as it has been for the last 8 years.

Mean time, pro Kosova's Independence countries will have a case to other hesitant or anti Indpnt of Kosova, saying, look EULEX (Ahtisari's plan) mission is working, K-Serbs and Albanians can co-live if there is no Belgrade interruptions and influence, hence you have to recognize Kosova in order for this to work and bring peace and prosperity in Balkan-EU.

By this, more recognition will follow and this will continue until the ICJ will set the date for Serbia's case to be heard.

By the time the ICJ will be seated and start the session, Serbia will have no case at all because with peace in region, K-Serbs and Albanians living in peace, with Eulex and Nato making sure all human rights are respected, with no one being above the law, then, the ICJ(read EU, USA and other countries) will rule :

Either pro Ahtisary's plan and EULEX mission, (diplomatically, they will not be against Serbia nor pro Kosova) even though it will be understandable that the verdict it is against Serbia and Pro Kosova.
Or
It will be split decision but in the end they will rule for Ahtisari's plan to continue since at current time this plan is working and they should not touch it.

Now back to my previous comment about the message that EU leaders sent to Serbian people and not Serbia's Gov.

By the time the Serbs will learn the truth that they will not rule Kosova and they will not get back Kosova, as their Gov promised them, to be precise, as Jeremic said we are winning this, of course the Serbian people, just like ZK from UK, will seek for the head of Tadic, Jeremic and co. Tadic and co, as expected, we will say that it was ICJ ruling, we thought we will win because the law was on our side and that ICJ will respect the international law but it seems they did not. Don't blame us, blame EU and USA as well as ICJ.

In other hand, EU will say, we warned you, don't do it because this will happen but you did not listen. But hey, look at K-Serbs now, they live in peace, their rights are guaranteed by Ahtisari's plan, EULEX and Nato is there to make sure for their safety, they live much better now. Lets not hate each other, let us all live in peace and harmony under one roof, called EU. How about we, EU, remove the visa restriction for you Serbs in Serbia? How about forgetting about the past and welcome you in EU, in near future, where everyone will be equal and share ideas rather than bullets and hatreds.

So my dear friends, I am telling you that this is a trap but very well meant trap.

Otherwise it is difficult for some people like ZK UK, Kate and co to understand and admit that EU has different things in mind and that to bring all surrounding states under one roof, with minimum minorities in any one state.

I can bring you millions of arguments why Kosova never was a Serbian land but then again you won't accept that. You only want to hear what it suit you. You only mention history when it suits you. You only mention certain dates of history that suits you, ignoring those that doesn't suits your cause.

You only mention International law when it suits you but you ignore and break the very same international law, again, when it suits you.

Anyway, lets see if my prediction is right. One thing I know, and that for sure, is that we will be all in on state called EU, where, even UK, will have to ditch her Majesty the Queen, as head of state.


God bless you all.

P.S Happy Bajram to all Islam followers

Firstly, I think we all know the US were Johnny come Latelies to WWII. They were standing by the sidelines letting the Europeans destroy themselves and waiting to see who would win before taking a side, claiming victory and starting to occupying and control this land. There were strong links with the US and the NAZIs, you only have to ask George Bush's grandfather (Prescott Bush).
http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2004/sep/25/usa.secondworldwar
http://www.nhgazette.com/the-bushnazi-stories/bushnazi-link-confirmed/

No surprises there really.

So it was Russia who practically defeated the NAZIs and they paid dearly for it with tens of millions of deaths - with Serbia and Great Britain contributing strongly to defeat fascists.

The kosovo albanians should have lobbied for the EU states to vote against ICJ initiative at last weekes Un Assembly meeting. OH WAIT, kosovo is not a country, so no seat in the UN.

I have only one question for Jeremic/Tadic! What will he do if ICJ rules in favor of Kosova? Will the Serbian government recognize Kosova straightway as an independent neighbour country (as they have never mentioned what they will do)? If he doesn't intend to do that, what is the point of all this!

---"That’s what I thought your answer is going to be. It was a trick question and you fell for it. That’s why Serbia will never give up Kosovo. "

It wasn't a trick question and I didn't fall for it. You cannot call reason to accept a second class citizen status. What you call reason, is a slave, a prisoner.

The "English "kate always tell us how to behave !!
As far as i'm concerned England too is out of Europe..a lonely island in the Atlantic..a dead place...

usaSerb and hmm?
Your straight answer has always been out there. Serbia and Serbia only is requesting a NON binding opinion from the ICJ. I think pretty much everyone on the other side of the table have said it will make no difference in the way they conduct business in the future.

"but if the ICJ rules in favour of Serbia it means absolutely nothing to the Albanians in Kosovo and you will continue to be permanent tourists on Serbian soil???"

Arkan is dead, but apparently someone copied his words. I am not like you: Serbs can stay in Kosova as full citizens, despite Kosova having been ours long before Serbs came to the Balkans.

USAserb, no Kosovo politician has the right or the guts to say that now you'll be under Serbian rule again (you know why). Serbia asked the court for the opinion, Albanians did not, so it's for Serbs to decide what to do with the ruling.

Looks like it will take a bit longer to get 100% separated. Whats an extra year in peace and relative prosperity compared to the 97 nightmarish ones?

Kate!
Instead of bringing some proposals or ideas to this very difficult issue for all Serbs and Albanians, you are always trying to show your "clever" views about UK, EU, US etc. These guys who you call chicken, are trying to support Serbia too. Fiat already signed a good deal in Serbia. A positive step. EU is offering the hand to Serbia to overcome economical problems. If you are so clever, you should know that without US, even you in UK would talk and write German now. Or Russian before you left for UK.

I think that if there is an ICJ rouling and if it is in favor of Kosovo than Serbia should immediately recognise the newest state. If there is a rouling in "favor" of Serbia than it will not effect Kosovo. You know why?
Because Kosovans are not askin the court if they were wright to get their freedom.
They are not asking anybody about that. They know they deserve it. Nobody can take fredom away from them.

@Sig.na Kate
But where did you live in the last 40 years? Germany and France where the main force behind Eu and have always had the last word on everything..and in the future it will be the same..they are the main economic powers and so they will be in the driving seat of Eu ...very simple...

@Mr.ZK.UK
yes i agree with you but..give some more strengh to the economic crisis and ..you will see less traffic jams and few congestions...
Un saluto from sunny Italy

I have only one question for Jeremic/Tadic! What will he do if ICJ rules in favor of Kosova? Will the Serbian government recognize Kosova straightway as an independent neighbour country (as they have never mentioned what they will do)? If he doesn't intend to do that, what is the point of all this!

"but if the ICJ rules in favour of Serbia it means absolutely nothing to the Albanians in Kosovo and you will continue to be permanent tourists on Serbian soil???"

Arkan is dead, but apparently someone copied his words. I am not like you: Serbs can stay in Kosova as full citizens, despite Kosova having been ours long before Serbs came to the Balkans.

USAserb, no Kosovo politician has the right or the guts to say that now you'll be under Serbian rule again (you know why). Serbia asked the court for the opinion, Albanians did not, so it's for Serbs to decide what to do with the ruling.

Looks like it will take a bit longer to get 100% separated. Whats an extra year in peace and relative prosperity compared to the 97 nightmarish ones?

The "English "kate always tell us how to behave !!
As far as i'm concerned England too is out of Europe..a lonely island in the Atlantic..a dead place...

Kate!
Instead of bringing some proposals or ideas to this very difficult issue for all Serbs and Albanians, you are always trying to show your "clever" views about UK, EU, US etc. These guys who you call chicken, are trying to support Serbia too. Fiat already signed a good deal in Serbia. A positive step. EU is offering the hand to Serbia to overcome economical problems. If you are so clever, you should know that without US, even you in UK would talk and write German now. Or Russian before you left for UK.

I think that if there is an ICJ rouling and if it is in favor of Kosovo than Serbia should immediately recognise the newest state. If there is a rouling in "favor" of Serbia than it will not effect Kosovo. You know why?
Because Kosovans are not askin the court if they were wright to get their freedom.
They are not asking anybody about that. They know they deserve it. Nobody can take fredom away from them.

usaSerb and hmm?
Your straight answer has always been out there. Serbia and Serbia only is requesting a NON binding opinion from the ICJ. I think pretty much everyone on the other side of the table have said it will make no difference in the way they conduct business in the future.

---"That’s what I thought your answer is going to be. It was a trick question and you fell for it. That’s why Serbia will never give up Kosovo. "

It wasn't a trick question and I didn't fall for it. You cannot call reason to accept a second class citizen status. What you call reason, is a slave, a prisoner.

@Mr.ZK.UK
yes i agree with you but..give some more strengh to the economic crisis and ..you will see less traffic jams and few congestions...
Un saluto from sunny Italy

Am I the only person (ordinary, not a politician) on this planet to see this or what?

All this, ICJ saga, Serbia's initiative, then some EU leaders publicly asking them not to do it etc, and now the same EU leaders claiming they will abstain, all this, is a trap.
Yes you heard me right, its a trap and you, Serbia's citizens, not current government included, are falling for it.

Here is why?

The moment that EU leaders said, publicly, to Serbia's gov, don't do it because it will harm our relation etc, this was a message to Serbia's people and not Serbia's gov. I will explain this later why to Serbia's people and not the current Gov.

Current Serbia's Gov knows the truth and reality hence they are taking this ICJ, knowing very well that they will lose the case. But they are doing this only so they can tell their own people that it is ICJ ruling and not theirs, hence they are not to blame. By taking this road, the current government, especially young Jeremic and co will end up as heroes. You only need to analyze his speeches, "we are winning this", "we will win that" etc. They're already preparing their own people, or shall I say, they are brainwashing them with the repetitious word " We are winning".
Now, the EU will abstain, obviously they will, because that's the whole plan. To allow the current Serbia's gov to remove the blame from them when ICJ rules pro EU(most of them) & Kosova.

Once Serbia wins this step, allowed to be in front of ICJ, then Serbia's Gov will allow EULEX to deploy all over Kosova. Not that EULEX really needs Serbia's permission, especially not the countries that recognized Kosova, but they are doing this, because they don't want to look like they are using force to deploy. Serbia can slow their deployment and cause trouble, by using innocent Serbs, but cannot stop EULEX nor Kosova for their goals.

Why will Serbia allow EULEX in Kosova now, you might ask? Because just like with UNMIK, remember they told their own people that UNMIK is temporary and we will get Kosova back in due course. The same with EULEX, they will say that we will allow them temporary until the ICJ ruling which we (they, Serbia of course) will win. With these false hopes, just like with UNMIK, the Serbian people will live and start to accept EULEX.
By the time the ICJ will be active and heard, EULEX will be very well deployed and active all over Kosova, especially in Northern Mitrovica. By this time the Serbs gangsters of Kostunica & Co will have left Northern Mitrovica because there won't be contrabands and smuggling for them nor wages from Kostunica & Co. The ordinary people, including the K-Serbs will start to breath from this chaos and fears that they've lived for the last 8 years now. In northern Mitrovica, once again, the law will be respected otherwise everyone will face the appropriate consequences if the law is broken, unlike as it has been for the last 8 years.

Mean time, pro Kosova's Independence countries will have a case to other hesitant or anti Indpnt of Kosova, saying, look EULEX (Ahtisari's plan) mission is working, K-Serbs and Albanians can co-live if there is no Belgrade interruptions and influence, hence you have to recognize Kosova in order for this to work and bring peace and prosperity in Balkan-EU.

By this, more recognition will follow and this will continue until the ICJ will set the date for Serbia's case to be heard.

By the time the ICJ will be seated and start the session, Serbia will have no case at all because with peace in region, K-Serbs and Albanians living in peace, with Eulex and Nato making sure all human rights are respected, with no one being above the law, then, the ICJ(read EU, USA and other countries) will rule :

Either pro Ahtisary's plan and EULEX mission, (diplomatically, they will not be against Serbia nor pro Kosova) even though it will be understandable that the verdict it is against Serbia and Pro Kosova.
Or
It will be split decision but in the end they will rule for Ahtisari's plan to continue since at current time this plan is working and they should not touch it.

Now back to my previous comment about the message that EU leaders sent to Serbian people and not Serbia's Gov.

By the time the Serbs will learn the truth that they will not rule Kosova and they will not get back Kosova, as their Gov promised them, to be precise, as Jeremic said we are winning this, of course the Serbian people, just like ZK from UK, will seek for the head of Tadic, Jeremic and co. Tadic and co, as expected, we will say that it was ICJ ruling, we thought we will win because the law was on our side and that ICJ will respect the international law but it seems they did not. Don't blame us, blame EU and USA as well as ICJ.

In other hand, EU will say, we warned you, don't do it because this will happen but you did not listen. But hey, look at K-Serbs now, they live in peace, their rights are guaranteed by Ahtisari's plan, EULEX and Nato is there to make sure for their safety, they live much better now. Lets not hate each other, let us all live in peace and harmony under one roof, called EU. How about we, EU, remove the visa restriction for you Serbs in Serbia? How about forgetting about the past and welcome you in EU, in near future, where everyone will be equal and share ideas rather than bullets and hatreds.

So my dear friends, I am telling you that this is a trap but very well meant trap.

Otherwise it is difficult for some people like ZK UK, Kate and co to understand and admit that EU has different things in mind and that to bring all surrounding states under one roof, with minimum minorities in any one state.

I can bring you millions of arguments why Kosova never was a Serbian land but then again you won't accept that. You only want to hear what it suit you. You only mention history when it suits you. You only mention certain dates of history that suits you, ignoring those that doesn't suits your cause.

You only mention International law when it suits you but you ignore and break the very same international law, again, when it suits you.

Anyway, lets see if my prediction is right. One thing I know, and that for sure, is that we will be all in on state called EU, where, even UK, will have to ditch her Majesty the Queen, as head of state.


God bless you all.

P.S Happy Bajram to all Islam followers

"Italian foreign minister said that he hoped that a solution would be found to allow the deployment of the EULEX mission"

- what a realisation that EULEX is illegal without a UN mandate and must in the first instance be aacceptable to Serbia - after all Kosovo & Metohija remains the UN recognised and sovereign province of Serbia irrespective of some countries acting against international norms and laws. Interesting to see how US and EU technocrats sell this to the likes of sediju and Thaci who must be starting to realise their US inspired pipe dream is going up in smoke!!!

Oh what a tangled web EU weave...

The fence upon which the EU sits is about to break under the pressure of all the new members.

What a bunch of chickens! They should be in favour of a legal ruling more than anyone, because it will help to clarify the EU role under the UN umbrella and UNSCR 1244.

I just wonder whether the US is now a permanent part of the EU?! Or just a sleeping partner.

Luigi,
England not part of Europe you say?
I hope you are not a teacher of geography.

Firstly, I think we all know the US were Johnny come Latelies to WWII. They were standing by the sidelines letting the Europeans destroy themselves and waiting to see who would win before taking a side, claiming victory and starting to occupying and control this land. There were strong links with the US and the NAZIs, you only have to ask George Bush's grandfather (Prescott Bush).
http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2004/sep/25/usa.secondworldwar
http://www.nhgazette.com/the-bushnazi-stories/bushnazi-link-confirmed/

No surprises there really.

So it was Russia who practically defeated the NAZIs and they paid dearly for it with tens of millions of deaths - with Serbia and Great Britain contributing strongly to defeat fascists.

Note the phrase 'most probably abstain' above. Interesting wording. Implies that agreement has not yet been reached among EU member states about a 'bloc vote', but should be soon.

Only problem for Frattini & his brussels cohorts is that Cyprus has already definitively said it will support Serbia's initiative at the GA on the 8th:

http://www.innercitypress.com/unga1cyprus092708.html

Which shatters any consensus & gives new meaning to the phrase 'most probably abstain'.

Luigi: "The "English "kate always tell us how to behave !!"

I can't remember ever telling you how to behave, Luigi. Don't take my comments about respecting international law and hoping that the EU becomes less entrenched with US foreign policy so personally.

"As far as i'm concerned England too is out of Europe..a lonely island in the Atlantic..a dead place..."

England is not an island, Luigi, Britain is an island. A lot of people in Britain would probably agree that we're not in Europe (I'm starting to feel the same way myself at times)! But geographical facts are geographical facts.

And I have to say for my own country that no matter how many numpties are running it [down] at any one time, England is a beautiful country. Especially if you see areas outside of Dover and crappy seaside resorts on the south coast.

London is a fabulous city, but just like any other city (Belgrade included) it is expensive and tough and a terrible place to be lonely.

In my own mind Britain and Serbia are both European. Unfortunately, Europe seems to be run nowadays by France, Germany and the US, which both our countries suffer from.

have only one question for Jeremic/Tadic! What will he do if ICJ rules in favor of Kosova? Will the Serbian government recognize Kosova straightway as an independent neighbour country (as they have never mentioned what they will do)? If he doesn't intend to do that, what is the point of all this!
(Skenderbeu, 29 September 2008 14:27)

Fair question. If ICJ rules against Serbia, I think they should. But, would Sediju/Thaci and Albanians forget about independence and do the same if ICJ rules in favor of Serbia?
Waiting for your answer.Just strait Yes or No would be appreciated.

I have only one question for Jeremic/Tadic! What will he do if ICJ rules in favor of Kosova? Will the Serbian government recognize Kosova straightway as an independent neighbour country (as they have never mentioned what they will do)? If he doesn't intend to do that, what is the point of all this!
(Skenderbeu, 29 September 2008 14:27)


so let me get this straight... if the ICJ somehow rules in favour of the albanians, you say Serbia should immediately recognize Kosovo as an independent country?? but if the ICJ rules in favour of Serbia it means absolutely nothing to the Albanians in Kosovo and you will continue to be permanent tourists on Serbian soil???

Serbia and Serbia only is requesting a NON binding opinion from the ICJ. I think pretty much everyone on the other side of the table have said it will make no difference in the way they conduct business in the future.
(hey-hey, 29 September 2008 16:37)

that's what they are saying, but just like when they pushed for kosovo's independence or for the attack on iraq that doesn't mean that they will be able to continue with such policies. it has been shown that these "coalitions of the willing" are not as omni-potent as they apparently believe. and this is not just serbia's issue. many countries in the world are not happy about unilateral acts of western countries (which happen to be their former colonial masters). and with the rise of the likes of russia, china and india we could see these countries implementing unilateral acts as well if they are powerful enough (see what happened to georgia).

the icj ruling in favour of serbia would take away the pressure on weaker countries to recognise kosovo since they would have a legal argument. that in turn means that kosovo would remain a frozen conflict with all disadvanteges of that status. depending on how serbia acts that could even hurt kosovo's economy significantly. it will be very difficult to isolate a democratic serbia and even more so if serbia is acting in accordance with the international law (which tis ruling would prove) and it is very unlikely that the eu countries want to isolate serbia again anyway.

i guess the hope is that kosovo will find itself in a situation where albanians striking a deal with serbs (because they will continue living next to them) rather than relying on support from the us would bring advantages to kosovo, so the people in the kosovo administration (both albanians and foreigners) would agree on new negotiations.

globally the hope is that the most powerful countries in the world will realise that their wealth and military power is not enough for them to be able to implement policies that weaker countries oppose.

The "English "kate always tell us how to behave !!
As far as i'm concerned England too is out of Europe..a lonely island in the Atlantic..a dead place...
(Luigi, 29 September 2008 13:47)
--
Luigi, well I think many British would support your point about Britian not begin European and I'm sure many here would be glad to be out of the EU but I really don't know where you got "lonely and dead".

Come and visit some time and you'll see how congested and busy it is here! If only it was a little more "dead", I wouldn't have to spend so much time in traffic congestion.

zorank@email.com

@(Dashnori i Ceces, 29 September 2008 17:13)


That’s what I thought your answer is going to be. It was a trick question and you fell for it. That’s why Serbia will never give up Kosovo. There’s no reasoning with you people. And that’s why K-Albanians are going to be losers when all the dust settles down.

@Sig.na Kate
But where did you live in the last 40 years? Germany and France where the main force behind Eu and have always had the last word on everything..and in the future it will be the same..they are the main economic powers and so they will be in the driving seat of Eu ...very simple...

Tymi: "EU is offering the hand to Serbia to overcome economical problems."

No, part of the EU is genuinely trying to help Serbia, but those countries are not strong enough to dictate or strongly influence EU policy.

The EU should never have supported this US driven move to steal 15% of Serbia's sovereign territory. There is no consistant message from the EU, and now the trade deal has been blocked.

Tying economic cooperation to the ICTY or Kosovo is backward and counterproductive. Membership to the EU should not be used as a beating stick, especially by the US which should have nothing to do with European affairs.

"... without US, even you in UK would talk and write German now. Or Russian before you left for UK."

Oh Lordy, you remind me of some English football fans on TV in Belgium saying just that to the local police as they were arrested in a drunken stupour. "You'd be speaking German if it wasn't for us".

That sort of low level statement is unworthy of comment.

As for the bit about Russian - what exactly do you mean by that? Are you supposing I must be Russian now? There are plenty of English people (on here included) who are educated and opinionated enough to hold their own beliefs on this issue. After all it affects all Europeans.

Abstention? Ha! You've got to be kidding me. Hasn't the EU been the main contributor to this latest adventure in colonialism? I mean they even appointed their own pasha to run Kosovo, who only yesterday boasted that such a ruling would mean nothing. And now these guys are talking about not even voting "No"? That's precious.

I wonder what the US will vote? In some ways, I could actually respect a "No" vote far more than an abstention. The mouth flaps in the wind all the time, but when push comes to shove, don't be tight lipped. Vote with your foreign policy. Or do some countries not agree with the foreign policy they pursued?

Oh and Kate, I'm sure you don't need my help in brushing off the criticism you get here from the usual suspects. Your comments are always some of the most thought provoking and painfully honest of any of us. It's a pleasure to see you back here!

Well Luigi lets see the UK is the third most powerful countryin NATO according to the USA. As for the UK not in Europe i wish that was correct. As for being dead i think not, more people want to get into the UK than any other EU country. France and Germany leading the way i think not again. Tymi as for speaking German if it wasnt for the YAnks, well not true is it. The British stood firm against the Third Reich for 2 years before the Yanks got involved, the battle of Britian was a victory by us the Brits.

As for Kate she has the right to her opinion thats the beauty of being British, freedom of speech.

Now on the subject of the ICJ ruling many Brits support Serbia, good luck on Oct 8th (i think thats the date)

The kosovo albanians should have lobbied for the EU states to vote against ICJ initiative at last weekes Un Assembly meeting. OH WAIT, kosovo is not a country, so no seat in the UN.