UN vote on ICJ resolution on Oct. 8

Good luck Serbia!! hopefully "JUSTICE" will finally be obtained and the defeat of the WESTERN IMPERIALISTS lead by the US who wants to imposed its policy in the world and dominate every nation.

bganon, so what is the point of this when the US/EU will simply ignore it? Do you think they care about international law when they continually break it to serve their own interests? Why should we play by the book when the rules were created only to put others at a disadvantage? It seems Russia has finally caught onto this strategy and is now playing the same game as the West but you somehow believe that cosying up to the world dictators is going to make things better?

You can forget about negotiations as it has been tried but failed. Also, there is no point negotiating with the Albanians when a big bully stands in front of them and does what it wants. The Albanians really have little to do with this and it's the US pulling the strings. So it's quite simple, remove the occupation and everything else just may fall into place.

We need to resist and that means never, ever, ever allowing this to progress. As the US meltdown worsens, the EU will try to manoeuvre and gain control with its illegal mission and this needs to be resisted. Maintaining the status quo is very expensive and they are not getting anything back from it, unlike other occupations throughout the world (Iraq in particular).

So go ahead with this ICJ initiative, fine - it will give us the legal and moral high ground but it is not going to change much.

With the current financial meltdown and divisions within the EU/US, I can see NATO packing their bags sooner rather than later. I really don't think people understand the magnitude of this meltdown but it will become apparent fairly quickly.

Kosova is NOT afraid even if this will go to the ICJ because the ICJ will take in to consideration the whole story! The ICJ will have to listen to arguments of both sides which means to Kosovas arguments for declaring the Independence! All atrocities serbs have done over kosovaalbanians, the right of selfdetermination, the autonomous status Kosova had in Yougoslavia as a federal unite,the serbian ethnic cleansing of albaians from Kosova in 1999, the long process of negotiations in Rambuye and Wienna and so on!!! So Serbia is just trying to get some more advantages to get the EU membership and hiding the crime they have done in Srebrenica and Kosova by ascing the opinion of the ICJ.

A victory at the ICJ would not mean the immediate liberation of kosovo from western occupiers at the moment since they never respect international law. At one point Serbia has to be prepare for war since most likely this is the last option for the country.

“Western imperialism (in capitals), other occupations throughout the world (Iraq in particular), current financial meltdown and divisions within the EU/US, immediate liberation of kosovo from western occupiers, prepare for war since most likely this is the last option for the country”.
I wouldn’t blame anyone for thinking these were extract from an early 70s soviet propaganda piece or bits from a speech on Communist International.
Ah nostalgia.

Ok, guys and gals -- the date has been set. their side (anti-independence)has their agenda full to the brim, and we must get to work. those who support independence and democracy in The republic of Kosova: we need to do our own lobbying, in every (positive) way that we can muster. we can bad-mouth and belittle the other side, but that does not deter them in the least. we need to be strong and united, and get to work with the appropriate lobbying.

there is no question, in my mind, when the vast majority of the UNGA understand the real intent(s) behind this proposal, they will defeat it soundly. i hope and pray (to "ALLAH" as some "nice" members of their camp like to chant)that we shall be successful.

i invite all of our friends and allies around the world (that includes truly progressive men and women inside serbia proper) to help us in our efforts.

it should be interesting to see what happens after the 8th. if their forces win in the vote, it will provide them with a much stronger club to use over both Kosova and all nations that would continue the recognitions and engagements. Please do not give belgrade such power -- it is a very dangerous precedent!

But, if they lose, as i hope they do, what is their next step? in this "nice" chess game? it is bit hard to know, but i am guessing "republika Srpska." suddenly there will be a re-focus there, a need to show that Bosnia Is "broken" (duh -- but why?) and then the call for secession will be renewed.

well, we shall see, but if it does happen, you read it here first.

thank you.

roberto

ZK what is your alternative, not to show disatisfaction or to try to break the rules as others do, but your alternative policy on Kosovo?

If you can't answer that then would you at least agree that this diplomatic initiative is the least worst thing that can be done?

I don't know that the EU and the US will ignore any judgment. I'd say that an opinion from the ICJ will be very important, even if it is not binding.

OK so Russia is now acting in an unprincipled way. Remind me ZK, what kind of world do you want to live in? I've never been the kind of person just to join in something only because other people are doing it. Quite the opposite, now I'd say it is more important than ever not to abandon principles.

Negotiations have not been tried and failed. How on earth you can fall into this lazy type of comment usually given to us by western ambassadors I don't know. Show me when negotiations between Serbs and Albanians on the status of Kosovo occured. I don't mean secret negotiations with Jovica Stanisic and the likes of Ratomir Tanic under Milosevic, I mean real negotiations.

Quite simple - remove the occupation!!! Quite simple to say, but the problem being that its just words. How would this come about? You surely don't think the Serbian army could try do you?

The only realistic way that international forces would be kicked out of Kosovo would be if Albanians rebelled. This is entirely possible at some stage - and in this global crisis funding of Kosovo may go down causing further discontent. In the end this is about Serbs and Albanians and we must come to agreement and insist upon this until it comes about.

I can't see NATO packing its bags any time soon, I think thats wishful thinking on your part. The only ones who can get them to pack their bags will be Kosovo Albanians.

But returning to diplomacy, perhaps its time for Serbian politicians to reach out to Albanians through the media and see if an appeal to the people has any effect.

I think the aim of the game currently should be to press for negotiations. Unlike trying to get countries to reverse their decision, this is an achievable aim and would benefit both Serbs and Albanians.

It may not be a 'patriotic' enough aim for Serbs to adopt this more minimal approach, but I'm convinced it will produce a better result for everybody.

Funny how silent Russia seems to be now since they recognized Georgias two provinces.

The main question would be, what will Belgrad then do when they lose the fight on ICJ? Recognize the new Republic since they advocate democracy and want to follow International law, or as last resort take arms and fight as Slobo once tried and failed miserably.

Another 'baby step' accomplished with the date set for the vote before the GA. Now for the vote itself.

On this topic, Cyprus have stated that they will vote for Serbia's bid for the ICJ which scuppers any idea that brussels might have had of an 'EU bloc abstention'. Now, the only possible 'EU bloc vote' is 'for Serbia' as noted here:

http://www.innercitypress.com/unga1cyprus092708.html

So much for 'brussel's attempts to 'hijack' the votes of those countries in the EU who have not recognised Kosovo by proposing a 'bloc vote'.

And also note that this also 'opens the door' for those countries within the EU that have recognised 'pseudo-state', but 'on principle', support Serbia in its bid - such as Luxembourg.

---"The only realistic way that international forces would be kicked out of Kosovo would be if Albanians rebelled."

Albanians would 'never' rebel, short of NATO starting to shoot at us, or if they said Independence is off. Then all bets are off, but that is nto going to happen for that reason.

One can ignore the hooligans, but Tadic isn't winning any points. If Tadic apologized for 1999 and said let's see if we can negotiate "this for this" I bet Albanians would sign for it. Fighting for centuries over a few villages isn't good. On the other hand trying to fool the other side or blackmail will not work either. Apologize sincerely if he believes the treatment was shameful, and offer a solution. No one will enter open ended negotiations because each side will ask for the moon

Like you said, Kosova is under NATO protection, and that mean Bulgaria, Romania, Hungary, Croatia (soon) England, Germany, Canada, France etc. Even if US pulls back most of its forces, NATO will still be there. Kosova is an EU issue now, like all the Balkans.

Funny how silent Russia seems to be now since they recognized Georgias two provinces.

The main question would be, what will Belgrad then do when they lose the fight on ICJ? Recognize the new Republic since they advocate democracy and want to follow International law, or as last resort take arms and fight as Slobo once tried and failed miserably.

Kosova is NOT afraid even if this will go to the ICJ because the ICJ will take in to consideration the whole story! The ICJ will have to listen to arguments of both sides which means to Kosovas arguments for declaring the Independence! All atrocities serbs have done over kosovaalbanians, the right of selfdetermination, the autonomous status Kosova had in Yougoslavia as a federal unite,the serbian ethnic cleansing of albaians from Kosova in 1999, the long process of negotiations in Rambuye and Wienna and so on!!! So Serbia is just trying to get some more advantages to get the EU membership and hiding the crime they have done in Srebrenica and Kosova by ascing the opinion of the ICJ.

Good luck Serbia!! hopefully "JUSTICE" will finally be obtained and the defeat of the WESTERN IMPERIALISTS lead by the US who wants to imposed its policy in the world and dominate every nation.

bganon, so what is the point of this when the US/EU will simply ignore it? Do you think they care about international law when they continually break it to serve their own interests? Why should we play by the book when the rules were created only to put others at a disadvantage? It seems Russia has finally caught onto this strategy and is now playing the same game as the West but you somehow believe that cosying up to the world dictators is going to make things better?

You can forget about negotiations as it has been tried but failed. Also, there is no point negotiating with the Albanians when a big bully stands in front of them and does what it wants. The Albanians really have little to do with this and it's the US pulling the strings. So it's quite simple, remove the occupation and everything else just may fall into place.

We need to resist and that means never, ever, ever allowing this to progress. As the US meltdown worsens, the EU will try to manoeuvre and gain control with its illegal mission and this needs to be resisted. Maintaining the status quo is very expensive and they are not getting anything back from it, unlike other occupations throughout the world (Iraq in particular).

So go ahead with this ICJ initiative, fine - it will give us the legal and moral high ground but it is not going to change much.

With the current financial meltdown and divisions within the EU/US, I can see NATO packing their bags sooner rather than later. I really don't think people understand the magnitude of this meltdown but it will become apparent fairly quickly.

A victory at the ICJ would not mean the immediate liberation of kosovo from western occupiers at the moment since they never respect international law. At one point Serbia has to be prepare for war since most likely this is the last option for the country.

“Western imperialism (in capitals), other occupations throughout the world (Iraq in particular), current financial meltdown and divisions within the EU/US, immediate liberation of kosovo from western occupiers, prepare for war since most likely this is the last option for the country”.
I wouldn’t blame anyone for thinking these were extract from an early 70s soviet propaganda piece or bits from a speech on Communist International.
Ah nostalgia.

Ok, guys and gals -- the date has been set. their side (anti-independence)has their agenda full to the brim, and we must get to work. those who support independence and democracy in The republic of Kosova: we need to do our own lobbying, in every (positive) way that we can muster. we can bad-mouth and belittle the other side, but that does not deter them in the least. we need to be strong and united, and get to work with the appropriate lobbying.

there is no question, in my mind, when the vast majority of the UNGA understand the real intent(s) behind this proposal, they will defeat it soundly. i hope and pray (to "ALLAH" as some "nice" members of their camp like to chant)that we shall be successful.

i invite all of our friends and allies around the world (that includes truly progressive men and women inside serbia proper) to help us in our efforts.

it should be interesting to see what happens after the 8th. if their forces win in the vote, it will provide them with a much stronger club to use over both Kosova and all nations that would continue the recognitions and engagements. Please do not give belgrade such power -- it is a very dangerous precedent!

But, if they lose, as i hope they do, what is their next step? in this "nice" chess game? it is bit hard to know, but i am guessing "republika Srpska." suddenly there will be a re-focus there, a need to show that Bosnia Is "broken" (duh -- but why?) and then the call for secession will be renewed.

well, we shall see, but if it does happen, you read it here first.

thank you.

roberto

ZK what is your alternative, not to show disatisfaction or to try to break the rules as others do, but your alternative policy on Kosovo?

If you can't answer that then would you at least agree that this diplomatic initiative is the least worst thing that can be done?

I don't know that the EU and the US will ignore any judgment. I'd say that an opinion from the ICJ will be very important, even if it is not binding.

OK so Russia is now acting in an unprincipled way. Remind me ZK, what kind of world do you want to live in? I've never been the kind of person just to join in something only because other people are doing it. Quite the opposite, now I'd say it is more important than ever not to abandon principles.

Negotiations have not been tried and failed. How on earth you can fall into this lazy type of comment usually given to us by western ambassadors I don't know. Show me when negotiations between Serbs and Albanians on the status of Kosovo occured. I don't mean secret negotiations with Jovica Stanisic and the likes of Ratomir Tanic under Milosevic, I mean real negotiations.

Quite simple - remove the occupation!!! Quite simple to say, but the problem being that its just words. How would this come about? You surely don't think the Serbian army could try do you?

The only realistic way that international forces would be kicked out of Kosovo would be if Albanians rebelled. This is entirely possible at some stage - and in this global crisis funding of Kosovo may go down causing further discontent. In the end this is about Serbs and Albanians and we must come to agreement and insist upon this until it comes about.

I can't see NATO packing its bags any time soon, I think thats wishful thinking on your part. The only ones who can get them to pack their bags will be Kosovo Albanians.

But returning to diplomacy, perhaps its time for Serbian politicians to reach out to Albanians through the media and see if an appeal to the people has any effect.

I think the aim of the game currently should be to press for negotiations. Unlike trying to get countries to reverse their decision, this is an achievable aim and would benefit both Serbs and Albanians.

It may not be a 'patriotic' enough aim for Serbs to adopt this more minimal approach, but I'm convinced it will produce a better result for everybody.

---"The only realistic way that international forces would be kicked out of Kosovo would be if Albanians rebelled."

Albanians would 'never' rebel, short of NATO starting to shoot at us, or if they said Independence is off. Then all bets are off, but that is nto going to happen for that reason.

One can ignore the hooligans, but Tadic isn't winning any points. If Tadic apologized for 1999 and said let's see if we can negotiate "this for this" I bet Albanians would sign for it. Fighting for centuries over a few villages isn't good. On the other hand trying to fool the other side or blackmail will not work either. Apologize sincerely if he believes the treatment was shameful, and offer a solution. No one will enter open ended negotiations because each side will ask for the moon

Like you said, Kosova is under NATO protection, and that mean Bulgaria, Romania, Hungary, Croatia (soon) England, Germany, Canada, France etc. Even if US pulls back most of its forces, NATO will still be there. Kosova is an EU issue now, like all the Balkans.

Another 'baby step' accomplished with the date set for the vote before the GA. Now for the vote itself.

On this topic, Cyprus have stated that they will vote for Serbia's bid for the ICJ which scuppers any idea that brussels might have had of an 'EU bloc abstention'. Now, the only possible 'EU bloc vote' is 'for Serbia' as noted here:

http://www.innercitypress.com/unga1cyprus092708.html

So much for 'brussel's attempts to 'hijack' the votes of those countries in the EU who have not recognised Kosovo by proposing a 'bloc vote'.

And also note that this also 'opens the door' for those countries within the EU that have recognised 'pseudo-state', but 'on principle', support Serbia in its bid - such as Luxembourg.