"Jeremić warns Macedonia on Kosovo"

Speaking about panics in the K-Albanian camp...

Tadic yesterday, Jeremic today...

who is in panic??? ;))

"...be put on hold until the International Court of Justice (ICJ) gives its opinion on this issue.

We all know that the decision of ICJ would not be a legally binding decision. What Serbia really want is to put on hold further Kosova recognitions. That would mean attemtps to blocking the development of a country of more than 2 million people and its EU future.

WARNS or THREATENS?

ben, what difference is it really going to make to Serbia or the situation on the ground if Makedonija recognises Kosovo? It is they who will lose their only friendly neighbour and that is the warning. They will be surrounded by hostility and left alone with a large Albanian population wanting to secede and threatening violence if they don't get their own way.

The simple fact is that for both Makedonija and Montenegro not recognising is the only natural thing to do.

L*O*G*I*C:
Shouldn't think a person with your user-name needs to be told about the principle that all actions have consequences.

Look at Kosovo & South Ossetia.


EA:
> We all know that the decision of ICJ would not be a legally binding decision.

A little misleading of you.

An advisory opinion is actually considered 'non-binding'. Does not mean it is without legal effect - as follows:

"This non-binding character does not mean that advisory opinions are without legal effect, because the legal reasoning embodied in them reflects the Court's authoritative views on important issues of international law and, in arriving at them, the Court follows essentially the same rules and procedures that govern its binding judgments delivered in contentious cases submitted to it by sovereign states. An advisory opinion derives its status and authority from the fact that it is the official pronouncement of the principal judicial organ of the United Nations."

As for Serbia's motives, it is using the legal process to circumvent the K-albanian UDI. This is it's right.

And if the development of Kosovo is stymied because of this, the fault lies with the K-albanian leadership who instigated said UDI.

And that same leadership may, at any time, revoke it - thereby removing the impediment.

Might take a while, but Serbia is in no hurry.

Years can pass. Decades even.

Can wait.

To EA: Kosovo can only have a "EU Future" as part of Serbia. The EU can't integrate Serbia's Kosovo province on it's own, because to do that, the EU must UNANIMOUSLY recognize Kosovo as an independent country, which will never happen. The best that the
so-called "indipindient kosovians" could ever hope for would be to cement their status as a UN/EU/US welfare case. However, with US economy heading down the tubes, it's highly unlikely
that the welfare checks can continue indefinately.

Petar,Sidney Might take a while but Serbia is in no hurry years can pass.Decades even. Very true.And with time Serbia has lost and with this kind of people at the helm it stands to lose some more,but hey you are in no hurry Petar.

As I said before this is a totally legitimate position to take.

Its Serbia's job to make sure that Macedonia makes an informed decision and knows that consequences can be expected. Unlike when the US Ambassador screwed up in Iraq by giving Sadam the impression he could invade Kuwait, there is no room for misunderstanding now.

As for Robert's 'right thing', what is the right thing? Is the right thing to send a message to Serbs in Kosovo that the discrimination they face today is acceptable? Is it the right thing that those Serbs who would like to return to their homes are frightened?

Sleep easy Roberto, just think about non-Serb victims, forget about Serbs. Just think about the nationalists, what does it matter if totally innocent people suffer as a result?

You might want to note that Ceda isn't part of the government, his (neo-liberal and anti-nationalist) party sit on the backbenches. By the way i think their position is more moderate than yours.

I've often criticised more radical Serbs who come here, but know next to nothing about the facts. I'd suggest you also learn a little more about Serbia otherwise how can you hope to have an informed or correct opinion about the situation?

True, Serbia is no hurry when it comes to Kosovo's final status. It is not costing the Serbs anything. It is the West, and their Albanian subordinates, that is in a hurry to cement their unilateral move. Kosovo has become an enormous headache for the US/EU. But with the ICJ initiative from Serbia, the resistance in Northern Kosovo by Serbs to lay down to Western directives, the Kosovo status issue will be alive for many years ahead. Serbia has time, and justice, on its side.

i am really getting tired of threats from belgrade. tired of milosevic's threats, tired of kostunica's threats, tired of these "moderate, pro-west" politicians' threats.

i really hope that macedonia, montenegro and any other county does not buckle under such threats, and does the right thing. recognize the newly independent republic of kosova, move forward, into normalcy and progress, not back to the bad old days.

is this govt in belgrade serious about being a candidate for the EU? it is unbelievable.

robert-0

ps how can Cedi stand being a part of this govt, that is what i want to know.

Unfortunatelly, Macedonia is really not in a situation to choose freely here. Because of huge mismanagement, corruption and ineptness of Macedonian political structures (both ethnic Macedonian and ethnic Albanian, they are equally corrupt) Macedonia is dependent on Serbia for up to 30% of its power supply. Also because of the corrupt Macedonian politicians, the new electrical link to Bulgaria is taking YEARS to do (for only 90km???) and is still not complete. Thus if Macedonia recognizes Kosovo, Serbia turns off the power, and 1/3 of Macedonia goes into darkness. Very bad scenario.

I think it is time for the General Assembly to put conditions on the vote whether or not to bring Serbia's case to the ICJ.

CONDITION I

Serbia must turn in all its War Criminals including Mladic.

Conition II

Serbia must agree in advance to recognize Kosova's Independence, in the event the ruling goes against Serbia, BEFORE any such vote is taken by the GA on whether or not to send Serbia's request for a ruling from the ICJ.

Without meeting both these conditions, it would be a complete waste of time and money (most of which is donated by the U.S.) for the UN to even consider bringing Serbia's request for a vote to the ICJ!

"Kosovo can only have a "EU Future" as part of Serbia. The EU can't integrate Serbia's Kosovo province on it's own, because to do that, the EU must UNANIMOUSLY recognize Kosovo as an independent country, which will never happen"

Let's see: Spain is the main one that opposes Kosova in EU, their government may collapse and a new one does it. Greece recognized the passports and we know what that means. Romania and Slovakia will do so once Spain does it, they are too small to withstand the EU /NATO pressure. It seems to me that Serbia will never have an EU future unless they recognize Kosova, not the other way around.

As for being a welfare state: 100% of Kosova's budget is funded from taxes and tariffs. UE /US help with security and the EU path and have pledged some donations, but that's it.

Even if Serbia offered $1 million a household so that Serbs rule again, less than 10% would accept it. This is how much we want your police and soldier in our land. Kosovars (and all Albanians) have been poor for ever, now th economy is growing at 6% a year so this is a great improvement already. If all fails, one Kosova son immigrates with an Albanian passport (Albania will be a member in 7 years) and supports the rest! Or they can work in Albania or FYROM for a while. Serbia will be the only country geographically in Europe outside of EU.

i am really getting tired of threats from belgrade. tired of milosevic's threats, tired of kostunica's threats, tired of these "moderate, pro-west" politicians' threats.

i really hope that macedonia, montenegro and any other county does not buckle under such threats, and does the right thing. recognize the newly independent republic of kosova, move forward, into normalcy and progress, not back to the bad old days.

Roberto, are you channeling the dead now? How is Milosevic threatening you?

Also very nice advice to Macedonia not to buckle under threat. I didn't read this advice from you when Albanians in Macedonia were threatening unreast if Macedonia DOESN'T recognize Kosovo. What's going on? Should be buckle under Albanian threat or not?

FYI Roberto and LOGIC, Serbia is not threatening but warning Macedonia that the threat will come to them from Albanians and therefore they should not appease them now.

Please please please, don't waste anymore time with opinions, pls get down to earth and except the reality of the world getting shaped. The democracy it is fighting against corrupted nations so people can leave in peace and harmony together. Kosova can't leave with serbia under same rules never again. But they can integrated with the rest of EU. All the best to all of you, with respect and dignity lets move forwards ones and forever.

Come on Macedonia, don't give in to the threats and pressure from the state of Serbia. I trust that you will do the right thing, and recognize the independence of Kosova to bring peace and stability to the entire region.

it is really amusing...

Roberto, do you still call the beautiful city you allegedly live in "Frisco"? =)


and where was your moral when the K-albanian terrorists threatened unrest in Macedonia?

it is great to watch your implausible comments fall apart.

what could be the reason to lie about the own identity here...? =)

pleurat:
> And with time Serbia has lost and with this kind of people at the helm it stands to lose some more,but hey you are in no hurry Petar.

I suspect you would be more than happy to have someone with as much energy as Mr Jeremic in your camp.. but you are stuck with the likes of Sejdiu.

Will see the outcome of the vote at the GA shortly.

And if the UN GA decides to pass Serbia's motion onto the ICJ, then will have a wait of 2-3 years for a decision, unless ICJ decides to expedite procedure, in which case will see a ruling made within the year.

And if the ICJ's advisory opinion is in Serbia's favour, then will take yet more time before K-albanians finally realise that they will have to negotiate.. sooner or later.

Yes, Serbia can wait.. as it will be waiting to join the EU in any case. Small loss there.

As for me, if the whole of Serbia can wait, then I certainly can as well.

The real question assuming of course, that initiative reaches the ICJ & the ruling is favourable, is how long before the 'patience' of the K-albanian people finally wears out?

Time will tell.

ben, what difference is it really going to make to Serbia or the situation on the ground if Makedonija recognises Kosovo? It is they who will lose their only friendly neighbour and that is the warning. They will be surrounded by hostility and left alone with a large Albanian population wanting to secede and threatening violence if they don't get their own way.

The simple fact is that for both Makedonija and Montenegro not recognising is the only natural thing to do.

i am really getting tired of threats from belgrade. tired of milosevic's threats, tired of kostunica's threats, tired of these "moderate, pro-west" politicians' threats.

i really hope that macedonia, montenegro and any other county does not buckle under such threats, and does the right thing. recognize the newly independent republic of kosova, move forward, into normalcy and progress, not back to the bad old days.

is this govt in belgrade serious about being a candidate for the EU? it is unbelievable.

robert-0

ps how can Cedi stand being a part of this govt, that is what i want to know.

Speaking about panics in the K-Albanian camp...

Tadic yesterday, Jeremic today...

who is in panic??? ;))

Petar,Sidney Might take a while but Serbia is in no hurry years can pass.Decades even. Very true.And with time Serbia has lost and with this kind of people at the helm it stands to lose some more,but hey you are in no hurry Petar.

WARNS or THREATENS?

"...be put on hold until the International Court of Justice (ICJ) gives its opinion on this issue.

We all know that the decision of ICJ would not be a legally binding decision. What Serbia really want is to put on hold further Kosova recognitions. That would mean attemtps to blocking the development of a country of more than 2 million people and its EU future.

L*O*G*I*C:
Shouldn't think a person with your user-name needs to be told about the principle that all actions have consequences.

Look at Kosovo & South Ossetia.


EA:
> We all know that the decision of ICJ would not be a legally binding decision.

A little misleading of you.

An advisory opinion is actually considered 'non-binding'. Does not mean it is without legal effect - as follows:

"This non-binding character does not mean that advisory opinions are without legal effect, because the legal reasoning embodied in them reflects the Court's authoritative views on important issues of international law and, in arriving at them, the Court follows essentially the same rules and procedures that govern its binding judgments delivered in contentious cases submitted to it by sovereign states. An advisory opinion derives its status and authority from the fact that it is the official pronouncement of the principal judicial organ of the United Nations."

As for Serbia's motives, it is using the legal process to circumvent the K-albanian UDI. This is it's right.

And if the development of Kosovo is stymied because of this, the fault lies with the K-albanian leadership who instigated said UDI.

And that same leadership may, at any time, revoke it - thereby removing the impediment.

Might take a while, but Serbia is in no hurry.

Years can pass. Decades even.

Can wait.

To EA: Kosovo can only have a "EU Future" as part of Serbia. The EU can't integrate Serbia's Kosovo province on it's own, because to do that, the EU must UNANIMOUSLY recognize Kosovo as an independent country, which will never happen. The best that the
so-called "indipindient kosovians" could ever hope for would be to cement their status as a UN/EU/US welfare case. However, with US economy heading down the tubes, it's highly unlikely
that the welfare checks can continue indefinately.

True, Serbia is no hurry when it comes to Kosovo's final status. It is not costing the Serbs anything. It is the West, and their Albanian subordinates, that is in a hurry to cement their unilateral move. Kosovo has become an enormous headache for the US/EU. But with the ICJ initiative from Serbia, the resistance in Northern Kosovo by Serbs to lay down to Western directives, the Kosovo status issue will be alive for many years ahead. Serbia has time, and justice, on its side.

"Kosovo can only have a "EU Future" as part of Serbia. The EU can't integrate Serbia's Kosovo province on it's own, because to do that, the EU must UNANIMOUSLY recognize Kosovo as an independent country, which will never happen"

Let's see: Spain is the main one that opposes Kosova in EU, their government may collapse and a new one does it. Greece recognized the passports and we know what that means. Romania and Slovakia will do so once Spain does it, they are too small to withstand the EU /NATO pressure. It seems to me that Serbia will never have an EU future unless they recognize Kosova, not the other way around.

As for being a welfare state: 100% of Kosova's budget is funded from taxes and tariffs. UE /US help with security and the EU path and have pledged some donations, but that's it.

Even if Serbia offered $1 million a household so that Serbs rule again, less than 10% would accept it. This is how much we want your police and soldier in our land. Kosovars (and all Albanians) have been poor for ever, now th economy is growing at 6% a year so this is a great improvement already. If all fails, one Kosova son immigrates with an Albanian passport (Albania will be a member in 7 years) and supports the rest! Or they can work in Albania or FYROM for a while. Serbia will be the only country geographically in Europe outside of EU.

Unfortunatelly, Macedonia is really not in a situation to choose freely here. Because of huge mismanagement, corruption and ineptness of Macedonian political structures (both ethnic Macedonian and ethnic Albanian, they are equally corrupt) Macedonia is dependent on Serbia for up to 30% of its power supply. Also because of the corrupt Macedonian politicians, the new electrical link to Bulgaria is taking YEARS to do (for only 90km???) and is still not complete. Thus if Macedonia recognizes Kosovo, Serbia turns off the power, and 1/3 of Macedonia goes into darkness. Very bad scenario.

I think it is time for the General Assembly to put conditions on the vote whether or not to bring Serbia's case to the ICJ.

CONDITION I

Serbia must turn in all its War Criminals including Mladic.

Conition II

Serbia must agree in advance to recognize Kosova's Independence, in the event the ruling goes against Serbia, BEFORE any such vote is taken by the GA on whether or not to send Serbia's request for a ruling from the ICJ.

Without meeting both these conditions, it would be a complete waste of time and money (most of which is donated by the U.S.) for the UN to even consider bringing Serbia's request for a vote to the ICJ!

Come on Macedonia, don't give in to the threats and pressure from the state of Serbia. I trust that you will do the right thing, and recognize the independence of Kosova to bring peace and stability to the entire region.

As I said before this is a totally legitimate position to take.

Its Serbia's job to make sure that Macedonia makes an informed decision and knows that consequences can be expected. Unlike when the US Ambassador screwed up in Iraq by giving Sadam the impression he could invade Kuwait, there is no room for misunderstanding now.

As for Robert's 'right thing', what is the right thing? Is the right thing to send a message to Serbs in Kosovo that the discrimination they face today is acceptable? Is it the right thing that those Serbs who would like to return to their homes are frightened?

Sleep easy Roberto, just think about non-Serb victims, forget about Serbs. Just think about the nationalists, what does it matter if totally innocent people suffer as a result?

You might want to note that Ceda isn't part of the government, his (neo-liberal and anti-nationalist) party sit on the backbenches. By the way i think their position is more moderate than yours.

I've often criticised more radical Serbs who come here, but know next to nothing about the facts. I'd suggest you also learn a little more about Serbia otherwise how can you hope to have an informed or correct opinion about the situation?

i am really getting tired of threats from belgrade. tired of milosevic's threats, tired of kostunica's threats, tired of these "moderate, pro-west" politicians' threats.

i really hope that macedonia, montenegro and any other county does not buckle under such threats, and does the right thing. recognize the newly independent republic of kosova, move forward, into normalcy and progress, not back to the bad old days.

Roberto, are you channeling the dead now? How is Milosevic threatening you?

Also very nice advice to Macedonia not to buckle under threat. I didn't read this advice from you when Albanians in Macedonia were threatening unreast if Macedonia DOESN'T recognize Kosovo. What's going on? Should be buckle under Albanian threat or not?

FYI Roberto and LOGIC, Serbia is not threatening but warning Macedonia that the threat will come to them from Albanians and therefore they should not appease them now.

Please please please, don't waste anymore time with opinions, pls get down to earth and except the reality of the world getting shaped. The democracy it is fighting against corrupted nations so people can leave in peace and harmony together. Kosova can't leave with serbia under same rules never again. But they can integrated with the rest of EU. All the best to all of you, with respect and dignity lets move forwards ones and forever.

it is really amusing...

Roberto, do you still call the beautiful city you allegedly live in "Frisco"? =)


and where was your moral when the K-albanian terrorists threatened unrest in Macedonia?

it is great to watch your implausible comments fall apart.

what could be the reason to lie about the own identity here...? =)

pleurat:
> And with time Serbia has lost and with this kind of people at the helm it stands to lose some more,but hey you are in no hurry Petar.

I suspect you would be more than happy to have someone with as much energy as Mr Jeremic in your camp.. but you are stuck with the likes of Sejdiu.

Will see the outcome of the vote at the GA shortly.

And if the UN GA decides to pass Serbia's motion onto the ICJ, then will have a wait of 2-3 years for a decision, unless ICJ decides to expedite procedure, in which case will see a ruling made within the year.

And if the ICJ's advisory opinion is in Serbia's favour, then will take yet more time before K-albanians finally realise that they will have to negotiate.. sooner or later.

Yes, Serbia can wait.. as it will be waiting to join the EU in any case. Small loss there.

As for me, if the whole of Serbia can wait, then I certainly can as well.

The real question assuming of course, that initiative reaches the ICJ & the ruling is favourable, is how long before the 'patience' of the K-albanian people finally wears out?

Time will tell.