24

Friday, 26.09.2008.

11:48

ICG: Put Kosovo on Belgrade-Brussels agenda

The International Crisis Group (ICG) released a report on the current situation in Kosovo.

Izvor: Beta

ICG: Put Kosovo on Belgrade-Brussels agenda IMAGE SOURCE
IMAGE DESCRIPTION

24 Komentari

Sortiraj po:

ben

pre 15 godina

ben

Serbia is a European country and it is not for you to question that fact. No European country was perfect in the past, that includes your Albania, and this does not mean they cannot be accepted into the EU. What makes you such an expert that you decide who gets in and who does not get into the EU? Is Albania in the EU that you can say who should get in and not?
(Peter Sudyka, 27 September 2008 01:02)

Peter: I have some very clear questions there market with the question mark (???) and affirmation (53% etc) that you can track and double check here in B92.

Please comment them and elaborate them rather than deviating- running away FROM THEM.

Thank you!

Dragan, Toronto

pre 15 godina

Does the ICG have any legal status, or does it just use its influence and muscle to gain illegal support. That organization should be shut down, as a mere mouthpiece for yet another U.S. attempt at making inroads in places they shouldn't. Solve the problems in your own backyard before you stick your nose over a fence and tell your neighbors what to do.

Princip, Gracanica, Srbija

pre 15 godina

Predictor,
"the risk is apparent, as they can not live normal life, can not work, can not trade – basically they would not be in a position to do anything, what would lead to their migration"

- and you think this risk has not been around since 1999? Frankly all non-Albanians have everything to gain by not legitimising an illegal declaration by the etnic Albanians.

It's clear the ICG and Serbian Albanians in the Serbian province of Kosovo & MEtohija live in a fantasy world but time will come to face reality and accept the state your in - Srbija!

Oh and by the way if the EU continue with its attempt to force its default partition within partition - as spearheaded by Holland http://www.b92.net/eng/news/comments.php?nav_id=43332 hence why Peter Feith was selected to head EULEX then you need to comprehend the Serbs of Kosovo & Metohija North of K Mitrovica and more importantly in the south are going nowhere but staying firmly in Srbija and will continue to strengthen Serbian instiutions throughout its soverign province.

In fact EU plans would be to improve property rights and thus this quite literally means to increase the rightful land ownership of the likes of Decani monastery to its genuine size. One cannot ignore the property rights issue given Serbia has the deeds to 58.79 percent of the land in its soverign province of Kosovo and Metohia - state and social, private, and the property of the Serbian Orthodox
Church, which comprises 641,071 hectares of the total of 1,090,410 hectares of land in that southern province. http://byzantinesacredart.com/blog/2008/02/more-than-heart.html Quite frankly the partition within partition default of the EU who have seen the floundering of the US inspired illegal declaration will create an ever bigger headache ah but then Oh what a tangled web they weave...

peter, sydney

pre 15 godina

Personally think these people should rename themselves to the Brussel's Support Group. Would be a far more accurate description.

This 'NGO' was the 'authority' the bureaucrats in brussels turned to when their plan to deploy EULEX ran into trouble with regard to it's legality - back before Ban threw away his credibility by coming out in support of the deployment despite not having authorisation from the SC.

No surprise then that it has come out with a raft of recommendations all designed to support the aspirations of the 'west' in Kosovo.

And no surprise then if their 'recommendations' are ignored by the serbs.

Peter Sudyka

pre 15 godina

ben

Serbia is a European country and it is not for you to question that fact. No European country was perfect in the past, that includes your Albania, and this does not mean they cannot be accepted into the EU. What makes you such an expert that you decide who gets in and who does not get into the EU? Is Albania in the EU that you can say who should get in and not?

Olli

pre 15 godina

village-bey & predictor,

I thank you both for your interpretations of ICG’s Kosovo Project Director's jargon.

I only didn't get much wiser. Village-bey writes: "Partition implies ethnically homogenous territories."

Well, partition of Kosovo from Serbia implied the very same result. A process that we can witness taking place every day.

Village-bay: "Since not many Albanians remain in North Mitrovica, part of the process would undoubtedly involve gradual population movements in the direction of BG."

He means this(?): Since there are not many Albanians left in North Mitrovica, in case of partition there shouldn't be many Serbs left south of Ibar. And when these Serbs find themselves on the road they will take direction to Belgrade, not to North Mitrovica.

Or... how else to understand it?

Predictor says, interpreting the word "risk" by ICG : "[...'risk' does not always mean a life risk...]. I would rather, in case of partition, call that disorientation of the Serbs living in south of Kosova."

Well, partition of Kosovo from Serbia has caused the very same result. A result that we can witness taking place every day —to put it mildly.

Predictor (in case of partition): "[...] more than 60% of the Serbs living in south Kosova will be confused and unsure to which way they can proceed: 1. to join the rest of the society in Kosova, or, 2. to try to create firm isolation between two communities."

He means this(?): The confusion and uncertainty caused by partition of North Mitrovica among Serbs would just add to their confusion and uncertainty caused by the partition of Kosovo from Serbia. For this reason it brings no real change to situation of South Kosovo Serbs whether the partition North Mitrovica takes place or not.

No more anyone has to "create firm isolation between two communities". Go out and see it yourself; it's there already.

Guys, is this the risk ICG’s Kosovo Project Director warned Serbs about?

Mark Shkreli

pre 15 godina

It is amazing how naive (most likely intentionally) the world is. How fast we all forgot ethnic cleansing(s) in Kosovo during the 20th Century. More than 1 million Kosovo Albanians were shipped to Turkey, against their will. Hundreds of thousands emigrated to the West in he 2nd half of the Century. Serbs committed many atrocities over Albanian population. Now, some one has the nerve to expect Kosovars to, once again, put themselves under Serbs? NO way!
One more thing. Kosovo has never been part of Serbia until the West succumbed under Russian pressure after Turkey's collapse and gave Serbia Kosovo and Montenegro Plav, Gusinje, Malesia, Ulcinj and Bar. Serbs and Montenegrins, very cleverly cleansed some areas completely of Albanians (e.g., Bar, Plav, Rozaje), and right now, Montenegro is doing the same with Ulcinj.
The World must not allow something like this to happen to anyone, ever again.

Dashnori i Ceces

pre 15 godina

---"The Albanians have already received the best offer they will ever get, being "more than autonomy but less than independence". It is certainly more than they have now or will ever achieve."

That remains to be seen. We know the nightmare we had, and that is gone. Kosova has joined Slovenia, Croatia, Montenegro and FYROM by being free of Serb rule. As Serb nationalists still dream, things are going on in Kosovo. For example Thaci went to Albania to seek 'national integration' and cooperation.

kate

pre 15 godina

usaSERB - Don't mind at all. I agree with you - it's crazy for 'Luigi' to say that Serbia is not part of Europe.

To me bombing Belgrade was the same as bombing Paris or Munich. It's totally European and nobody can deny that it is geographically European.

By the way, Luigi, I am not Serbian. I am English without a drop of Serbian blood in me (as far as I know).

As for you calling me 'Mrs' Kate - since the 90s women have been called Ms unless stated otherwise. Just so you know for your future social dealings with women.

predictor

pre 15 godina

Olli,
"If de facto partition continues, Kosovo’s Serbs south of the Ibar River will be at risk."

Why?
Does some Kosovo Albanian have an answer?
(Olli, 26 September 2008 14:18)

Even thought this “conclusion”, if we may call so, is put in a wrong format, I think I can answer your question!
First of all a “risk” does not always mean a life risk, as you want to put it, right? I would rather, in case of partition, call that disorientation of the Serbs living in south of Kosova. That, because, more that 60% of the Serbs that are living in south Kosova, will be confused and unsure to which way they can proceed: 1. to join the rest of the society in Kosova, or, 2. to try to create firm isolation between two communities – what would bring them only poverty and inability to live normal life. In the second case, the risk is apparent, as they can not live normal life, can not work, can not trade – basically they would not be in a position to do anything, what would lead to their migration to other places even that are north of Kosova or Serbia, when they can live better.
In my opinion, that’s the “risk” of which ICG was talking about.

usaSERB

pre 15 godina

@Mrs.Kate
About your usual comments IT'S ridicolous that you speak as you are the "Europeans" ..you are not..you are Serbs..out of Europe ..another thing..No one in EU is very fond of New Kosovo but at the same time i haven't seen any mass demonstration for the Serbs..so please leaves Europe to the Europeans ...
(Luigi, 26 September 2008 14:39)

Sorry to Kate, I know this comment was directed at you. I don’t mean in any way to speak for you. But I had to correct Mr. Luigi.

“IT'S ridicolous that you speak as you are the "Europeans" ..you are not..you are Serbs.”

Mr. Luigi, I must of slept thru when they removed Serbia from European continent. Would you please let me know where they moved it to? And please let me know what planet do you live on. Maybe our Serbia is there.

village-bey

pre 15 godina

Dear Olli,
"If de facto partition continues, Kosovo’s Serbs south of the Ibar River will be at risk."
Why?
Does some Kosovo Albanian have an answer?
That is pretty easy I would have thought Olli. Partition implies ethnically homogenous territories. Since not many Albanians remain in North Mitrovica, part of the process would undoubtedly involve gradual population movements in the direction of BG.
It is all about signals that BG projects on Kosova’s Serb.
The underlying message since the end of the war has been that Serbs cannot live alongside Albanians in areas where they make up a majority. That pretty much constitutes the best part of Kosova.
Hence ICG message that Felix thought was the best joke ever, "Belgrade should secure the Kosovo Serbs’ cooperation with Priština, for their benefit". That is pretty much spot on. Many Serbs understand it but for obvious reasons are not prepared to accept it. The irony of this situation is that once more the fate of Kosova Serbs is linked to political bravados of BG political elite. It is plain for everyone to see that interests of BG and that of Kosova Serbs diverge quite substantially. The question that you have to ask yourself is basically this; ‘can Serbia afford another sacrificial lamb’.
In simpler terms you can’t have your cake and eat it too.

raso

pre 15 godina

no surprise here - allthough there are smooth and little realism-attacks within the report.

on the other hand: the phantasizing about occupation of the liberated parts of kosmet is the same league as the phantasies about a greater-georgia with the REAL youngest states in europe.

Dashnori i Satam

pre 15 godina

Serbs are jumping from joy but your best case scenarioa means you get the north and that's it. K-Albs don't care that much about it.

---"If de facto partition continues, Kosovo’s Serbs south of the Ibar River will be at risk."
Why?
Does some Kosovo Albanian have an answer?"

Because it would make the relations between the two groups worse and the Serbs inside Kosovo may feel unwelcomed by their fellow citizens, the Albanians. You should know that 2/3rd of Serbs are outside N Mitrovica and unless people integrate and get along it would be hard to get jobs, move around etc.

ben

pre 15 godina

What a misreading of the report.

The report says STOP giving carrots to Serbia- they DO NOT DESERV IT.

They are continuing to be a destabilising factor in Balkans and jeopardise the stability in Kosova.

If they want to go with Russia open the road to them. This is what ICG says.

How can you talk about EU integration to a country that refuses to arrest people like Mladic and Karadzic et al for almost 17 years???? What European values are shred??? Radicals of the war criminal Seselj are the biggest political party in Serbia- what EU do you see here??? They hide for almost two decades war criminals and consider them as patriots and still blame other from criminal- and EU should still integrate these people?? give me a break- it is the most shameful hypocrisy ever.

Milosevic won several FREE and FAIR elections and his opposition was Seselj- com on what is European here enlighten me please???? And now we have still radicals as major political party and the “socialists” of Milosevic in the Gov.t- and we talk about European integration here??? What a joke… With this politics Serbia should look for integration with Belarus, Cuba, Iran, North Corea etc... neither Russia is OK for them- the latest pools in Russia show that over 50% of Russians support the Kosova’s independence- strangely- these news- don’t make the way in B92 and other Serbian press.

53% of Serbians still don't know WHY Karadzic and Mladic are accused for from Hague and we should still hear stories about European Serbia. More than half of Serbs DENIE the crimes in Srebrenica ever happen and we talk about liberalisation of visa regime... unbelievable- it makes me sick this pragmatic and unprincipled approach of EU towards Serbia. Serbs not even try to hide that they do not feel any moral obligation for thousand of deaths all around Yugo, destructions that they have caused, valuables that their army was stilling etc... not even an attempt to face the TRUTH. Is it possible that everyone in the former Yugo is saying the lies and only Serbs say the truth?? There must be something pathological here...

Kosova is the most Europeanised part of Balkans- the entire juridical and security system IS rune by EU (EULEX).

Olli

pre 15 godina

"If de facto partition continues, Kosovo’s Serbs south of the Ibar River will be at risk."

Why?
Does some Kosovo Albanian have an answer?

Luigi

pre 15 godina

@Mrs.Kate
About your usual comments IT'S ridicolous that you speak as you are the "Europeans" ..you are not..you are Serbs..out of Europe ..another thing..No one in EU is very fond of New Kosovo but at the same time i haven't seen any mass demonstration for the Serbs..so please leaves Europe to the Europeans ...

kate

pre 15 godina

Difficult to try and use the EU as a carrot when it's clearly disjointed, run by France and Germany (Sarkozy and Merkel - what a combination!) and being undermined by its grovelling sycophancy to the US. And all of us Europeans have the pleasure of paying not to be heard or considered.

As for the UK, I can't imagine them saying 'no' to the US even if it wanted to buy the white cliffs of Dover and put them in Disneyland.

Shocking Europe - get a grip and stand up for international law and the rights of your own people!

Felix, Romania

pre 15 godina

"Belgrade should secure the Kosovo Serbs’ cooperation with Priština, for their benefit" This must be a joke right? One cannot be so politically blind as to really believe such thing, cause to all of us other people it looks like all cooperation has been completely shattered. And not by the Serbs. Now you ask for cooperation... ridiculous...

ZK UK

pre 15 godina

Everyone knows the independence movement is dead so why put energy or money into something that is simply not going to happen?

The Albanians have already received the best offer they will ever get, being "more than autonomy but less than independence". It is certainly more than they have now or will ever achieve.

The problem being that they prefer to be ruled over as their leaders are completely incompetent. The longer they wait the worse the offer is going to get I'm afraid.

pleurat

pre 15 godina

territorial integrity? the lease expired on the 17/04/08, Kosovo(Dardania) is back to its rightfull owners.Kosovo will never be leased out again.it is illegal to grab land that is not yours,and never was.on this parts of the world Serbs are not native.

The /Swiss

pre 15 godina

The report also said that the international community did not manage the situation well since February 17.

“ Independence was supposed to be ‘supervised,’ based on the plan drafted by the UN Secretary-General’s special representative, former Finnish President Martti Ahtisaari,” ICG stated.

The report adds that “supporters have not kept their pledges because of Serbian and Russian opposition, insufficient political will and weak coordination

It proves one more time if necessary that when things are done on the illegal way, it can't work!

Gary T.

pre 15 godina

Martti Ahtisaari plan is a DEAD document because it was never been approved by the UNSC and Belgrade. thats why it is not a legal document for the province of kosovo

Peter, B

pre 15 godina

UDI supporters are really rattled!! This report just goes to show what a bad mistake it was for K-Albanians to declare independence. Its a sham and the only way forward now is to re start status talks.

Well done to Tadic et al for not giving up on its territorial integrity!

kate

pre 15 godina

Difficult to try and use the EU as a carrot when it's clearly disjointed, run by France and Germany (Sarkozy and Merkel - what a combination!) and being undermined by its grovelling sycophancy to the US. And all of us Europeans have the pleasure of paying not to be heard or considered.

As for the UK, I can't imagine them saying 'no' to the US even if it wanted to buy the white cliffs of Dover and put them in Disneyland.

Shocking Europe - get a grip and stand up for international law and the rights of your own people!

The /Swiss

pre 15 godina

The report also said that the international community did not manage the situation well since February 17.

“ Independence was supposed to be ‘supervised,’ based on the plan drafted by the UN Secretary-General’s special representative, former Finnish President Martti Ahtisaari,” ICG stated.

The report adds that “supporters have not kept their pledges because of Serbian and Russian opposition, insufficient political will and weak coordination

It proves one more time if necessary that when things are done on the illegal way, it can't work!

Gary T.

pre 15 godina

Martti Ahtisaari plan is a DEAD document because it was never been approved by the UNSC and Belgrade. thats why it is not a legal document for the province of kosovo

Peter, B

pre 15 godina

UDI supporters are really rattled!! This report just goes to show what a bad mistake it was for K-Albanians to declare independence. Its a sham and the only way forward now is to re start status talks.

Well done to Tadic et al for not giving up on its territorial integrity!

ZK UK

pre 15 godina

Everyone knows the independence movement is dead so why put energy or money into something that is simply not going to happen?

The Albanians have already received the best offer they will ever get, being "more than autonomy but less than independence". It is certainly more than they have now or will ever achieve.

The problem being that they prefer to be ruled over as their leaders are completely incompetent. The longer they wait the worse the offer is going to get I'm afraid.

Felix, Romania

pre 15 godina

"Belgrade should secure the Kosovo Serbs’ cooperation with Priština, for their benefit" This must be a joke right? One cannot be so politically blind as to really believe such thing, cause to all of us other people it looks like all cooperation has been completely shattered. And not by the Serbs. Now you ask for cooperation... ridiculous...

usaSERB

pre 15 godina

@Mrs.Kate
About your usual comments IT'S ridicolous that you speak as you are the "Europeans" ..you are not..you are Serbs..out of Europe ..another thing..No one in EU is very fond of New Kosovo but at the same time i haven't seen any mass demonstration for the Serbs..so please leaves Europe to the Europeans ...
(Luigi, 26 September 2008 14:39)

Sorry to Kate, I know this comment was directed at you. I don’t mean in any way to speak for you. But I had to correct Mr. Luigi.

“IT'S ridicolous that you speak as you are the "Europeans" ..you are not..you are Serbs.”

Mr. Luigi, I must of slept thru when they removed Serbia from European continent. Would you please let me know where they moved it to? And please let me know what planet do you live on. Maybe our Serbia is there.

pleurat

pre 15 godina

territorial integrity? the lease expired on the 17/04/08, Kosovo(Dardania) is back to its rightfull owners.Kosovo will never be leased out again.it is illegal to grab land that is not yours,and never was.on this parts of the world Serbs are not native.

Luigi

pre 15 godina

@Mrs.Kate
About your usual comments IT'S ridicolous that you speak as you are the "Europeans" ..you are not..you are Serbs..out of Europe ..another thing..No one in EU is very fond of New Kosovo but at the same time i haven't seen any mass demonstration for the Serbs..so please leaves Europe to the Europeans ...

ben

pre 15 godina

What a misreading of the report.

The report says STOP giving carrots to Serbia- they DO NOT DESERV IT.

They are continuing to be a destabilising factor in Balkans and jeopardise the stability in Kosova.

If they want to go with Russia open the road to them. This is what ICG says.

How can you talk about EU integration to a country that refuses to arrest people like Mladic and Karadzic et al for almost 17 years???? What European values are shred??? Radicals of the war criminal Seselj are the biggest political party in Serbia- what EU do you see here??? They hide for almost two decades war criminals and consider them as patriots and still blame other from criminal- and EU should still integrate these people?? give me a break- it is the most shameful hypocrisy ever.

Milosevic won several FREE and FAIR elections and his opposition was Seselj- com on what is European here enlighten me please???? And now we have still radicals as major political party and the “socialists” of Milosevic in the Gov.t- and we talk about European integration here??? What a joke… With this politics Serbia should look for integration with Belarus, Cuba, Iran, North Corea etc... neither Russia is OK for them- the latest pools in Russia show that over 50% of Russians support the Kosova’s independence- strangely- these news- don’t make the way in B92 and other Serbian press.

53% of Serbians still don't know WHY Karadzic and Mladic are accused for from Hague and we should still hear stories about European Serbia. More than half of Serbs DENIE the crimes in Srebrenica ever happen and we talk about liberalisation of visa regime... unbelievable- it makes me sick this pragmatic and unprincipled approach of EU towards Serbia. Serbs not even try to hide that they do not feel any moral obligation for thousand of deaths all around Yugo, destructions that they have caused, valuables that their army was stilling etc... not even an attempt to face the TRUTH. Is it possible that everyone in the former Yugo is saying the lies and only Serbs say the truth?? There must be something pathological here...

Kosova is the most Europeanised part of Balkans- the entire juridical and security system IS rune by EU (EULEX).

kate

pre 15 godina

usaSERB - Don't mind at all. I agree with you - it's crazy for 'Luigi' to say that Serbia is not part of Europe.

To me bombing Belgrade was the same as bombing Paris or Munich. It's totally European and nobody can deny that it is geographically European.

By the way, Luigi, I am not Serbian. I am English without a drop of Serbian blood in me (as far as I know).

As for you calling me 'Mrs' Kate - since the 90s women have been called Ms unless stated otherwise. Just so you know for your future social dealings with women.

village-bey

pre 15 godina

Dear Olli,
"If de facto partition continues, Kosovo’s Serbs south of the Ibar River will be at risk."
Why?
Does some Kosovo Albanian have an answer?
That is pretty easy I would have thought Olli. Partition implies ethnically homogenous territories. Since not many Albanians remain in North Mitrovica, part of the process would undoubtedly involve gradual population movements in the direction of BG.
It is all about signals that BG projects on Kosova’s Serb.
The underlying message since the end of the war has been that Serbs cannot live alongside Albanians in areas where they make up a majority. That pretty much constitutes the best part of Kosova.
Hence ICG message that Felix thought was the best joke ever, "Belgrade should secure the Kosovo Serbs’ cooperation with Priština, for their benefit". That is pretty much spot on. Many Serbs understand it but for obvious reasons are not prepared to accept it. The irony of this situation is that once more the fate of Kosova Serbs is linked to political bravados of BG political elite. It is plain for everyone to see that interests of BG and that of Kosova Serbs diverge quite substantially. The question that you have to ask yourself is basically this; ‘can Serbia afford another sacrificial lamb’.
In simpler terms you can’t have your cake and eat it too.

raso

pre 15 godina

no surprise here - allthough there are smooth and little realism-attacks within the report.

on the other hand: the phantasizing about occupation of the liberated parts of kosmet is the same league as the phantasies about a greater-georgia with the REAL youngest states in europe.

Princip, Gracanica, Srbija

pre 15 godina

Predictor,
"the risk is apparent, as they can not live normal life, can not work, can not trade – basically they would not be in a position to do anything, what would lead to their migration"

- and you think this risk has not been around since 1999? Frankly all non-Albanians have everything to gain by not legitimising an illegal declaration by the etnic Albanians.

It's clear the ICG and Serbian Albanians in the Serbian province of Kosovo & MEtohija live in a fantasy world but time will come to face reality and accept the state your in - Srbija!

Oh and by the way if the EU continue with its attempt to force its default partition within partition - as spearheaded by Holland http://www.b92.net/eng/news/comments.php?nav_id=43332 hence why Peter Feith was selected to head EULEX then you need to comprehend the Serbs of Kosovo & Metohija North of K Mitrovica and more importantly in the south are going nowhere but staying firmly in Srbija and will continue to strengthen Serbian instiutions throughout its soverign province.

In fact EU plans would be to improve property rights and thus this quite literally means to increase the rightful land ownership of the likes of Decani monastery to its genuine size. One cannot ignore the property rights issue given Serbia has the deeds to 58.79 percent of the land in its soverign province of Kosovo and Metohia - state and social, private, and the property of the Serbian Orthodox
Church, which comprises 641,071 hectares of the total of 1,090,410 hectares of land in that southern province. http://byzantinesacredart.com/blog/2008/02/more-than-heart.html Quite frankly the partition within partition default of the EU who have seen the floundering of the US inspired illegal declaration will create an ever bigger headache ah but then Oh what a tangled web they weave...

Olli

pre 15 godina

"If de facto partition continues, Kosovo’s Serbs south of the Ibar River will be at risk."

Why?
Does some Kosovo Albanian have an answer?

Peter Sudyka

pre 15 godina

ben

Serbia is a European country and it is not for you to question that fact. No European country was perfect in the past, that includes your Albania, and this does not mean they cannot be accepted into the EU. What makes you such an expert that you decide who gets in and who does not get into the EU? Is Albania in the EU that you can say who should get in and not?

Dragan, Toronto

pre 15 godina

Does the ICG have any legal status, or does it just use its influence and muscle to gain illegal support. That organization should be shut down, as a mere mouthpiece for yet another U.S. attempt at making inroads in places they shouldn't. Solve the problems in your own backyard before you stick your nose over a fence and tell your neighbors what to do.

Dashnori i Satam

pre 15 godina

Serbs are jumping from joy but your best case scenarioa means you get the north and that's it. K-Albs don't care that much about it.

---"If de facto partition continues, Kosovo’s Serbs south of the Ibar River will be at risk."
Why?
Does some Kosovo Albanian have an answer?"

Because it would make the relations between the two groups worse and the Serbs inside Kosovo may feel unwelcomed by their fellow citizens, the Albanians. You should know that 2/3rd of Serbs are outside N Mitrovica and unless people integrate and get along it would be hard to get jobs, move around etc.

Olli

pre 15 godina

village-bey & predictor,

I thank you both for your interpretations of ICG’s Kosovo Project Director's jargon.

I only didn't get much wiser. Village-bey writes: "Partition implies ethnically homogenous territories."

Well, partition of Kosovo from Serbia implied the very same result. A process that we can witness taking place every day.

Village-bay: "Since not many Albanians remain in North Mitrovica, part of the process would undoubtedly involve gradual population movements in the direction of BG."

He means this(?): Since there are not many Albanians left in North Mitrovica, in case of partition there shouldn't be many Serbs left south of Ibar. And when these Serbs find themselves on the road they will take direction to Belgrade, not to North Mitrovica.

Or... how else to understand it?

Predictor says, interpreting the word "risk" by ICG : "[...'risk' does not always mean a life risk...]. I would rather, in case of partition, call that disorientation of the Serbs living in south of Kosova."

Well, partition of Kosovo from Serbia has caused the very same result. A result that we can witness taking place every day —to put it mildly.

Predictor (in case of partition): "[...] more than 60% of the Serbs living in south Kosova will be confused and unsure to which way they can proceed: 1. to join the rest of the society in Kosova, or, 2. to try to create firm isolation between two communities."

He means this(?): The confusion and uncertainty caused by partition of North Mitrovica among Serbs would just add to their confusion and uncertainty caused by the partition of Kosovo from Serbia. For this reason it brings no real change to situation of South Kosovo Serbs whether the partition North Mitrovica takes place or not.

No more anyone has to "create firm isolation between two communities". Go out and see it yourself; it's there already.

Guys, is this the risk ICG’s Kosovo Project Director warned Serbs about?

peter, sydney

pre 15 godina

Personally think these people should rename themselves to the Brussel's Support Group. Would be a far more accurate description.

This 'NGO' was the 'authority' the bureaucrats in brussels turned to when their plan to deploy EULEX ran into trouble with regard to it's legality - back before Ban threw away his credibility by coming out in support of the deployment despite not having authorisation from the SC.

No surprise then that it has come out with a raft of recommendations all designed to support the aspirations of the 'west' in Kosovo.

And no surprise then if their 'recommendations' are ignored by the serbs.

Mark Shkreli

pre 15 godina

It is amazing how naive (most likely intentionally) the world is. How fast we all forgot ethnic cleansing(s) in Kosovo during the 20th Century. More than 1 million Kosovo Albanians were shipped to Turkey, against their will. Hundreds of thousands emigrated to the West in he 2nd half of the Century. Serbs committed many atrocities over Albanian population. Now, some one has the nerve to expect Kosovars to, once again, put themselves under Serbs? NO way!
One more thing. Kosovo has never been part of Serbia until the West succumbed under Russian pressure after Turkey's collapse and gave Serbia Kosovo and Montenegro Plav, Gusinje, Malesia, Ulcinj and Bar. Serbs and Montenegrins, very cleverly cleansed some areas completely of Albanians (e.g., Bar, Plav, Rozaje), and right now, Montenegro is doing the same with Ulcinj.
The World must not allow something like this to happen to anyone, ever again.

Dashnori i Ceces

pre 15 godina

---"The Albanians have already received the best offer they will ever get, being "more than autonomy but less than independence". It is certainly more than they have now or will ever achieve."

That remains to be seen. We know the nightmare we had, and that is gone. Kosova has joined Slovenia, Croatia, Montenegro and FYROM by being free of Serb rule. As Serb nationalists still dream, things are going on in Kosovo. For example Thaci went to Albania to seek 'national integration' and cooperation.

ben

pre 15 godina

ben

Serbia is a European country and it is not for you to question that fact. No European country was perfect in the past, that includes your Albania, and this does not mean they cannot be accepted into the EU. What makes you such an expert that you decide who gets in and who does not get into the EU? Is Albania in the EU that you can say who should get in and not?
(Peter Sudyka, 27 September 2008 01:02)

Peter: I have some very clear questions there market with the question mark (???) and affirmation (53% etc) that you can track and double check here in B92.

Please comment them and elaborate them rather than deviating- running away FROM THEM.

Thank you!

predictor

pre 15 godina

Olli,
"If de facto partition continues, Kosovo’s Serbs south of the Ibar River will be at risk."

Why?
Does some Kosovo Albanian have an answer?
(Olli, 26 September 2008 14:18)

Even thought this “conclusion”, if we may call so, is put in a wrong format, I think I can answer your question!
First of all a “risk” does not always mean a life risk, as you want to put it, right? I would rather, in case of partition, call that disorientation of the Serbs living in south of Kosova. That, because, more that 60% of the Serbs that are living in south Kosova, will be confused and unsure to which way they can proceed: 1. to join the rest of the society in Kosova, or, 2. to try to create firm isolation between two communities – what would bring them only poverty and inability to live normal life. In the second case, the risk is apparent, as they can not live normal life, can not work, can not trade – basically they would not be in a position to do anything, what would lead to their migration to other places even that are north of Kosova or Serbia, when they can live better.
In my opinion, that’s the “risk” of which ICG was talking about.

Luigi

pre 15 godina

@Mrs.Kate
About your usual comments IT'S ridicolous that you speak as you are the "Europeans" ..you are not..you are Serbs..out of Europe ..another thing..No one in EU is very fond of New Kosovo but at the same time i haven't seen any mass demonstration for the Serbs..so please leaves Europe to the Europeans ...

pleurat

pre 15 godina

territorial integrity? the lease expired on the 17/04/08, Kosovo(Dardania) is back to its rightfull owners.Kosovo will never be leased out again.it is illegal to grab land that is not yours,and never was.on this parts of the world Serbs are not native.

ben

pre 15 godina

What a misreading of the report.

The report says STOP giving carrots to Serbia- they DO NOT DESERV IT.

They are continuing to be a destabilising factor in Balkans and jeopardise the stability in Kosova.

If they want to go with Russia open the road to them. This is what ICG says.

How can you talk about EU integration to a country that refuses to arrest people like Mladic and Karadzic et al for almost 17 years???? What European values are shred??? Radicals of the war criminal Seselj are the biggest political party in Serbia- what EU do you see here??? They hide for almost two decades war criminals and consider them as patriots and still blame other from criminal- and EU should still integrate these people?? give me a break- it is the most shameful hypocrisy ever.

Milosevic won several FREE and FAIR elections and his opposition was Seselj- com on what is European here enlighten me please???? And now we have still radicals as major political party and the “socialists” of Milosevic in the Gov.t- and we talk about European integration here??? What a joke… With this politics Serbia should look for integration with Belarus, Cuba, Iran, North Corea etc... neither Russia is OK for them- the latest pools in Russia show that over 50% of Russians support the Kosova’s independence- strangely- these news- don’t make the way in B92 and other Serbian press.

53% of Serbians still don't know WHY Karadzic and Mladic are accused for from Hague and we should still hear stories about European Serbia. More than half of Serbs DENIE the crimes in Srebrenica ever happen and we talk about liberalisation of visa regime... unbelievable- it makes me sick this pragmatic and unprincipled approach of EU towards Serbia. Serbs not even try to hide that they do not feel any moral obligation for thousand of deaths all around Yugo, destructions that they have caused, valuables that their army was stilling etc... not even an attempt to face the TRUTH. Is it possible that everyone in the former Yugo is saying the lies and only Serbs say the truth?? There must be something pathological here...

Kosova is the most Europeanised part of Balkans- the entire juridical and security system IS rune by EU (EULEX).

Dashnori i Satam

pre 15 godina

Serbs are jumping from joy but your best case scenarioa means you get the north and that's it. K-Albs don't care that much about it.

---"If de facto partition continues, Kosovo’s Serbs south of the Ibar River will be at risk."
Why?
Does some Kosovo Albanian have an answer?"

Because it would make the relations between the two groups worse and the Serbs inside Kosovo may feel unwelcomed by their fellow citizens, the Albanians. You should know that 2/3rd of Serbs are outside N Mitrovica and unless people integrate and get along it would be hard to get jobs, move around etc.

village-bey

pre 15 godina

Dear Olli,
"If de facto partition continues, Kosovo’s Serbs south of the Ibar River will be at risk."
Why?
Does some Kosovo Albanian have an answer?
That is pretty easy I would have thought Olli. Partition implies ethnically homogenous territories. Since not many Albanians remain in North Mitrovica, part of the process would undoubtedly involve gradual population movements in the direction of BG.
It is all about signals that BG projects on Kosova’s Serb.
The underlying message since the end of the war has been that Serbs cannot live alongside Albanians in areas where they make up a majority. That pretty much constitutes the best part of Kosova.
Hence ICG message that Felix thought was the best joke ever, "Belgrade should secure the Kosovo Serbs’ cooperation with Priština, for their benefit". That is pretty much spot on. Many Serbs understand it but for obvious reasons are not prepared to accept it. The irony of this situation is that once more the fate of Kosova Serbs is linked to political bravados of BG political elite. It is plain for everyone to see that interests of BG and that of Kosova Serbs diverge quite substantially. The question that you have to ask yourself is basically this; ‘can Serbia afford another sacrificial lamb’.
In simpler terms you can’t have your cake and eat it too.

ben

pre 15 godina

ben

Serbia is a European country and it is not for you to question that fact. No European country was perfect in the past, that includes your Albania, and this does not mean they cannot be accepted into the EU. What makes you such an expert that you decide who gets in and who does not get into the EU? Is Albania in the EU that you can say who should get in and not?
(Peter Sudyka, 27 September 2008 01:02)

Peter: I have some very clear questions there market with the question mark (???) and affirmation (53% etc) that you can track and double check here in B92.

Please comment them and elaborate them rather than deviating- running away FROM THEM.

Thank you!

Peter, B

pre 15 godina

UDI supporters are really rattled!! This report just goes to show what a bad mistake it was for K-Albanians to declare independence. Its a sham and the only way forward now is to re start status talks.

Well done to Tadic et al for not giving up on its territorial integrity!

Gary T.

pre 15 godina

Martti Ahtisaari plan is a DEAD document because it was never been approved by the UNSC and Belgrade. thats why it is not a legal document for the province of kosovo

ZK UK

pre 15 godina

Everyone knows the independence movement is dead so why put energy or money into something that is simply not going to happen?

The Albanians have already received the best offer they will ever get, being "more than autonomy but less than independence". It is certainly more than they have now or will ever achieve.

The problem being that they prefer to be ruled over as their leaders are completely incompetent. The longer they wait the worse the offer is going to get I'm afraid.

Mark Shkreli

pre 15 godina

It is amazing how naive (most likely intentionally) the world is. How fast we all forgot ethnic cleansing(s) in Kosovo during the 20th Century. More than 1 million Kosovo Albanians were shipped to Turkey, against their will. Hundreds of thousands emigrated to the West in he 2nd half of the Century. Serbs committed many atrocities over Albanian population. Now, some one has the nerve to expect Kosovars to, once again, put themselves under Serbs? NO way!
One more thing. Kosovo has never been part of Serbia until the West succumbed under Russian pressure after Turkey's collapse and gave Serbia Kosovo and Montenegro Plav, Gusinje, Malesia, Ulcinj and Bar. Serbs and Montenegrins, very cleverly cleansed some areas completely of Albanians (e.g., Bar, Plav, Rozaje), and right now, Montenegro is doing the same with Ulcinj.
The World must not allow something like this to happen to anyone, ever again.

The /Swiss

pre 15 godina

The report also said that the international community did not manage the situation well since February 17.

“ Independence was supposed to be ‘supervised,’ based on the plan drafted by the UN Secretary-General’s special representative, former Finnish President Martti Ahtisaari,” ICG stated.

The report adds that “supporters have not kept their pledges because of Serbian and Russian opposition, insufficient political will and weak coordination

It proves one more time if necessary that when things are done on the illegal way, it can't work!

Felix, Romania

pre 15 godina

"Belgrade should secure the Kosovo Serbs’ cooperation with Priština, for their benefit" This must be a joke right? One cannot be so politically blind as to really believe such thing, cause to all of us other people it looks like all cooperation has been completely shattered. And not by the Serbs. Now you ask for cooperation... ridiculous...

kate

pre 15 godina

Difficult to try and use the EU as a carrot when it's clearly disjointed, run by France and Germany (Sarkozy and Merkel - what a combination!) and being undermined by its grovelling sycophancy to the US. And all of us Europeans have the pleasure of paying not to be heard or considered.

As for the UK, I can't imagine them saying 'no' to the US even if it wanted to buy the white cliffs of Dover and put them in Disneyland.

Shocking Europe - get a grip and stand up for international law and the rights of your own people!

Olli

pre 15 godina

"If de facto partition continues, Kosovo’s Serbs south of the Ibar River will be at risk."

Why?
Does some Kosovo Albanian have an answer?

raso

pre 15 godina

no surprise here - allthough there are smooth and little realism-attacks within the report.

on the other hand: the phantasizing about occupation of the liberated parts of kosmet is the same league as the phantasies about a greater-georgia with the REAL youngest states in europe.

usaSERB

pre 15 godina

@Mrs.Kate
About your usual comments IT'S ridicolous that you speak as you are the "Europeans" ..you are not..you are Serbs..out of Europe ..another thing..No one in EU is very fond of New Kosovo but at the same time i haven't seen any mass demonstration for the Serbs..so please leaves Europe to the Europeans ...
(Luigi, 26 September 2008 14:39)

Sorry to Kate, I know this comment was directed at you. I don’t mean in any way to speak for you. But I had to correct Mr. Luigi.

“IT'S ridicolous that you speak as you are the "Europeans" ..you are not..you are Serbs.”

Mr. Luigi, I must of slept thru when they removed Serbia from European continent. Would you please let me know where they moved it to? And please let me know what planet do you live on. Maybe our Serbia is there.

predictor

pre 15 godina

Olli,
"If de facto partition continues, Kosovo’s Serbs south of the Ibar River will be at risk."

Why?
Does some Kosovo Albanian have an answer?
(Olli, 26 September 2008 14:18)

Even thought this “conclusion”, if we may call so, is put in a wrong format, I think I can answer your question!
First of all a “risk” does not always mean a life risk, as you want to put it, right? I would rather, in case of partition, call that disorientation of the Serbs living in south of Kosova. That, because, more that 60% of the Serbs that are living in south Kosova, will be confused and unsure to which way they can proceed: 1. to join the rest of the society in Kosova, or, 2. to try to create firm isolation between two communities – what would bring them only poverty and inability to live normal life. In the second case, the risk is apparent, as they can not live normal life, can not work, can not trade – basically they would not be in a position to do anything, what would lead to their migration to other places even that are north of Kosova or Serbia, when they can live better.
In my opinion, that’s the “risk” of which ICG was talking about.

kate

pre 15 godina

usaSERB - Don't mind at all. I agree with you - it's crazy for 'Luigi' to say that Serbia is not part of Europe.

To me bombing Belgrade was the same as bombing Paris or Munich. It's totally European and nobody can deny that it is geographically European.

By the way, Luigi, I am not Serbian. I am English without a drop of Serbian blood in me (as far as I know).

As for you calling me 'Mrs' Kate - since the 90s women have been called Ms unless stated otherwise. Just so you know for your future social dealings with women.

Dashnori i Ceces

pre 15 godina

---"The Albanians have already received the best offer they will ever get, being "more than autonomy but less than independence". It is certainly more than they have now or will ever achieve."

That remains to be seen. We know the nightmare we had, and that is gone. Kosova has joined Slovenia, Croatia, Montenegro and FYROM by being free of Serb rule. As Serb nationalists still dream, things are going on in Kosovo. For example Thaci went to Albania to seek 'national integration' and cooperation.

Olli

pre 15 godina

village-bey & predictor,

I thank you both for your interpretations of ICG’s Kosovo Project Director's jargon.

I only didn't get much wiser. Village-bey writes: "Partition implies ethnically homogenous territories."

Well, partition of Kosovo from Serbia implied the very same result. A process that we can witness taking place every day.

Village-bay: "Since not many Albanians remain in North Mitrovica, part of the process would undoubtedly involve gradual population movements in the direction of BG."

He means this(?): Since there are not many Albanians left in North Mitrovica, in case of partition there shouldn't be many Serbs left south of Ibar. And when these Serbs find themselves on the road they will take direction to Belgrade, not to North Mitrovica.

Or... how else to understand it?

Predictor says, interpreting the word "risk" by ICG : "[...'risk' does not always mean a life risk...]. I would rather, in case of partition, call that disorientation of the Serbs living in south of Kosova."

Well, partition of Kosovo from Serbia has caused the very same result. A result that we can witness taking place every day —to put it mildly.

Predictor (in case of partition): "[...] more than 60% of the Serbs living in south Kosova will be confused and unsure to which way they can proceed: 1. to join the rest of the society in Kosova, or, 2. to try to create firm isolation between two communities."

He means this(?): The confusion and uncertainty caused by partition of North Mitrovica among Serbs would just add to their confusion and uncertainty caused by the partition of Kosovo from Serbia. For this reason it brings no real change to situation of South Kosovo Serbs whether the partition North Mitrovica takes place or not.

No more anyone has to "create firm isolation between two communities". Go out and see it yourself; it's there already.

Guys, is this the risk ICG’s Kosovo Project Director warned Serbs about?

Peter Sudyka

pre 15 godina

ben

Serbia is a European country and it is not for you to question that fact. No European country was perfect in the past, that includes your Albania, and this does not mean they cannot be accepted into the EU. What makes you such an expert that you decide who gets in and who does not get into the EU? Is Albania in the EU that you can say who should get in and not?

peter, sydney

pre 15 godina

Personally think these people should rename themselves to the Brussel's Support Group. Would be a far more accurate description.

This 'NGO' was the 'authority' the bureaucrats in brussels turned to when their plan to deploy EULEX ran into trouble with regard to it's legality - back before Ban threw away his credibility by coming out in support of the deployment despite not having authorisation from the SC.

No surprise then that it has come out with a raft of recommendations all designed to support the aspirations of the 'west' in Kosovo.

And no surprise then if their 'recommendations' are ignored by the serbs.

Princip, Gracanica, Srbija

pre 15 godina

Predictor,
"the risk is apparent, as they can not live normal life, can not work, can not trade – basically they would not be in a position to do anything, what would lead to their migration"

- and you think this risk has not been around since 1999? Frankly all non-Albanians have everything to gain by not legitimising an illegal declaration by the etnic Albanians.

It's clear the ICG and Serbian Albanians in the Serbian province of Kosovo & MEtohija live in a fantasy world but time will come to face reality and accept the state your in - Srbija!

Oh and by the way if the EU continue with its attempt to force its default partition within partition - as spearheaded by Holland http://www.b92.net/eng/news/comments.php?nav_id=43332 hence why Peter Feith was selected to head EULEX then you need to comprehend the Serbs of Kosovo & Metohija North of K Mitrovica and more importantly in the south are going nowhere but staying firmly in Srbija and will continue to strengthen Serbian instiutions throughout its soverign province.

In fact EU plans would be to improve property rights and thus this quite literally means to increase the rightful land ownership of the likes of Decani monastery to its genuine size. One cannot ignore the property rights issue given Serbia has the deeds to 58.79 percent of the land in its soverign province of Kosovo and Metohia - state and social, private, and the property of the Serbian Orthodox
Church, which comprises 641,071 hectares of the total of 1,090,410 hectares of land in that southern province. http://byzantinesacredart.com/blog/2008/02/more-than-heart.html Quite frankly the partition within partition default of the EU who have seen the floundering of the US inspired illegal declaration will create an ever bigger headache ah but then Oh what a tangled web they weave...

Dragan, Toronto

pre 15 godina

Does the ICG have any legal status, or does it just use its influence and muscle to gain illegal support. That organization should be shut down, as a mere mouthpiece for yet another U.S. attempt at making inroads in places they shouldn't. Solve the problems in your own backyard before you stick your nose over a fence and tell your neighbors what to do.