"Refusal would affect whole world"

No doubt that this refusal could create horrible consequences.

Dear all,

If you had any doubts why eventually ALL International Community will recognise Kosovo Independence please read this
http://query.nytimes.com/mem/archive-free/pdf?res=9D0CEEDA1E3AE633A25752C3A9649D946396D6CF



Richard C. Hall: The Balkan Wars 1912-1913: Prelude to the First World War,2000


Vaso Cubrilovic , The expulsion of the Albanians. Memorandum, (1937)

Ivo Andric, Draft on Albania, (1939)

It is not the first time someone has tried to solve the conflict peacefully.

The Kosovars were patient for almost 20 years. We tried our best to live through the police state of Serbia during hte 90s, we signed the autonomy accord in 1999, only to have it refused by Serbia, we agreed to negotiate for years and be ruled by the UN.

Now Serbia has lost the ability to use military force. Now it turns to the UN since it has no other option.

Good luck joining the EU...this is the best anyone can wish Serbia.

No, Mr Jeremic,i don't think so. The message that will be send out there is,you can't use military force against un armed people and be rewarded for it.Thats the message that will be send out there.Thanks

I haven't really cared too much for this intiative, firstly because I don't trust this government and secondly because I don't really think the outcome will matter too much.

Once the occupation gets the boot the conclusion to status will be completed one way or another and Serbia has the upper hand whichever way that is.

All I do know is that Serbia has already offered the Albanians the best deal they will ever get!

No UN decission will affect anything. As you know politics in the balkans is beeing made by crating facts. Serb were not asking K-Albanians if they agree with Serb Tanks in their garden and Albanians know Serb military will march into Kosovo and erode them by next opportunity.
So dear Albanians, be thankfull to America, Your Mufti should sing: God bless America while your churches should chime the Star Spangled Banner.

The ICJ is going to be very busy in the next 10 years.

So many cases will be opened,the crimes Serbia committed in Slovenia,Croatia,B&H and Kosovo.

avi:
> The ICJ is going to be very busy in the next 10 years.
So many cases will be opened,the crimes Serbia committed in Slovenia,Croatia,B&H and Kosovo.

Wrong sort of court.

ICC would be the appropriate venue, & you better hope that it doesn't start chasing balkan criminals. Would have a field day with government of 'pseudo-state' especially.

But no worries there for a while.. at least until kangaroo court called ICTY is wound up.

Curious that 'bastion of democracy' isn't a member country of ICC?

ps: apologies to all kangaroos.


hey-hey:
> After all how many posters have have numerously stated that 150+ countries support Serbia over Kosovo.

Don't know, am not one of them.


miri:
> So he is asking the GA to vote but if GA votes against its request, that is equivalent to the use of force?!!

Busy at the 'spinning wheel' again I see.

No, that is not what Jeremic is saying - merely your attempt to twist his words.

What he is saying is that by denying Serbia even the chance of pursing the legal avenue before the ICJ, the UN General Assembly would be encouraging those who would prefer to use 'force' as the latter could then simply say - hey we tried the peaceful approach & we didn't even get a hearing.

And note that that 'force' doesn't have to be military.

And what he is also saying is that this sends a clear message to other governments who might have their separatist issues, that the legal avenue can easily be denied to them which will only strengthen their inclination to use 'force' to resolve the issue instead.

And this is a perfectly reasonable argument which will be stressed by many states during the debate.


ben:
> So they were saying for the big-bang experiment ;)

Last I heard, they had some sort of gliche which prevented a full test. But even where that not the case, would still be far too early to say. An oscillating point-sized singularity for instance would take a fair while to build up mass.

Who knows, clock may already be ticking (swinging?) :)

As for Georgia, wonder who they will be supporting at the GA?

"This is the first time in the turbulent history of the Balkans that someone has tried to resolve a dispute of this importance peacefully," the foreign minister said in an interview with Reuters."

Excuse me -- is this man for real?! what were we desperately trying to do throughout the horrible 90s, play tiddly winks? i mean such remarks are just incomprehensible and will not ALLOw us to take such people seriously.

what about that little dispute of sarajevo under siege for 4 yrs, surrounded by those "nice" sharpshooters and shellers.

i do not know how these men sleep at nite, by i take it their bank accounts are not hurting too much.

roberto
sarajevo

"Refusal would affect whole world" Jeremic.
Yeah sure, whenever Serbia does not get what she wants, the whole world will be effected and crumbled.
Only now the serbs are thinking of solving the problems through peace but when the serbs had the power, they were not hesitating at all to use the brutal power against unarmed and innocent neighbors

"This is the first time in the turbulent history of the Balkans that someone has tried to resolve a dispute of this importance peacefully," the foreign minister said in an interview with Reuters."
That is another attempt to fool the word and creating a big LIE. The world knows by know the break up of Yugoslavia, ethnic cleansing orchastrated by Slobodan Milosevic on behalf of Serbia state. Serbia was forced out of Kosova and we all know why so please stop trying to full the world about the Serbia's will to resolve the dispute peacefully. Serbia has no choice and lets be STRAIGHT!

"All I do know is that Serbia has already offered the Albanians the best deal they will ever get!"

Did anyone ask Serbia? Nope. We got independence backed by US /EU and NATO. Next we'll get investments, a professional army (only 3300 initially + police,) EU and NATO memberships. All without asking the benevolent Serbs. Croats, Slovenes and Montenegro (almost for MN) didn't ask the Serbs either.

Thanks for the offer though. You are very kind, as usual.

to ZKUK:

I trust this new government as much as I trust the B92-staff...

but, if they do something against serbian interests, they will have to face the poeples anger, and that´s something politicians, and especially politicians like them won´t risk.

Jeremic says: ""If the UN General Assembly decided to block the Serbian request, it would send a very negative signal," said Jeremić, who, as the news agency noted, is part of the "new pro-European Serbian government".

"I think that the effect of this signal, not only to Serbia, not only to the region but I think to the whole world would be: 'If you want to solve a problem, go and use force, because that's how you solve problems,'" the he continued."

So he is asking the GA to vote but if GA votes against its request, that is equivalent to the use of force?!!

How will it affect the whole world?Even Mr.Tadic doesn't believe in the ICJ.He said that Serbia will never recognize Kosovo's independence,then why is he asking for the ICJ opinion when he already declares that he is not going to accept one of the possible outcomes. Why should the GA vote pro Serbia's initiative when serbia itself doesn't accept the courts opinion?

Serbia trying to solve the problem peacfuly? Why the 1999 never happened? The victims and the crimes should be forgoten now? Those peoples lives don't count anymore?

I am amazed about the dilettantism of Mr. Wolf. I have never seen such a zigzag in the diplomacy. Vuk and his declarations are a very bad copy of Russian diplomacy, which was never and still is not able to resolve problems diplomatically and through dialog but always using a bellicose rhetoric. This initiative, even if is going through and accepted by GA, will result as a boomerang for Serbia first of all and for all those who agreed. Vuk knows this very well, but the poor guy do not have other choice because he and his president has reached the point of non-return in the international policy. Like in the modern wars, nobody can win anymore in a frontal confrontation. The most clever guys eliminate the enemy and the problems piece by piece. Serbs should have know this from their past.

Where is this overwhelming support for Serbia, we keep reading about. After all how many posters have have numerously stated that 150+ countries support Serbia over Kosovo. There should be no concern as to it passing.

"Refusal would affect whole world"

So they were saying for the big-bang experiment ;)

Does Serbia coordinate with Georgia in the ICJ case??? ;)

Judging by the number of Albanian and pro Albanian post here I see that there is wide spread panic.
They are resorting now to twisting words to make Serbs look bad and going back to Milosevic constantly. Just as well none of this nonsense will be displayed at the UN or ICJ. Only the facts will be presented and only the rule of law will be expected.

Isn't it about time you left Milosevic out of this as we have already established many, many times that the separatist movement has begun somewhere around 1912, and that's according to Albanians themselves.

I have read numerous times here how Albanians claim they have been wanting to separate since then and now they are using Milosevic as an excuse. For God's sake, he wasn't even born then. Stick to one or the other as using both arguments has lost you all the arguments.

Court trials take time, a simple divorce trial can take as long as 2 years. The legality of the Kosovo's proclamation of independence could take a decade.

If, and there is a good chance, that Serbia's initiation to ask for ICJ's opinion (an institution set up by the countries that bombed Serbia) what will Jeremic do? Will he walk out once again?


David Williams,

what horrible consequences? The people of Belgrade (Beogradians) have already moved on, no one in Serbia is falling for the national trick. It's unpatriotic to play the patriotic propaganda.

Dear all,

If you had any doubts why eventually ALL International Community will recognise Kosovo Independence please read this
http://query.nytimes.com/mem/archive-free/pdf?res=9D0CEEDA1E3AE633A25752C3A9649D946396D6CF



Richard C. Hall: The Balkan Wars 1912-1913: Prelude to the First World War,2000


Vaso Cubrilovic , The expulsion of the Albanians. Memorandum, (1937)

Ivo Andric, Draft on Albania, (1939)

It is not the first time someone has tried to solve the conflict peacefully.

The Kosovars were patient for almost 20 years. We tried our best to live through the police state of Serbia during hte 90s, we signed the autonomy accord in 1999, only to have it refused by Serbia, we agreed to negotiate for years and be ruled by the UN.

Now Serbia has lost the ability to use military force. Now it turns to the UN since it has no other option.

Good luck joining the EU...this is the best anyone can wish Serbia.

No, Mr Jeremic,i don't think so. The message that will be send out there is,you can't use military force against un armed people and be rewarded for it.Thats the message that will be send out there.Thanks

The ICJ is going to be very busy in the next 10 years.

So many cases will be opened,the crimes Serbia committed in Slovenia,Croatia,B&H and Kosovo.

No UN decission will affect anything. As you know politics in the balkans is beeing made by crating facts. Serb were not asking K-Albanians if they agree with Serb Tanks in their garden and Albanians know Serb military will march into Kosovo and erode them by next opportunity.
So dear Albanians, be thankfull to America, Your Mufti should sing: God bless America while your churches should chime the Star Spangled Banner.

Where is this overwhelming support for Serbia, we keep reading about. After all how many posters have have numerously stated that 150+ countries support Serbia over Kosovo. There should be no concern as to it passing.

Jeremic says: ""If the UN General Assembly decided to block the Serbian request, it would send a very negative signal," said Jeremić, who, as the news agency noted, is part of the "new pro-European Serbian government".

"I think that the effect of this signal, not only to Serbia, not only to the region but I think to the whole world would be: 'If you want to solve a problem, go and use force, because that's how you solve problems,'" the he continued."

So he is asking the GA to vote but if GA votes against its request, that is equivalent to the use of force?!!

How will it affect the whole world?Even Mr.Tadic doesn't believe in the ICJ.He said that Serbia will never recognize Kosovo's independence,then why is he asking for the ICJ opinion when he already declares that he is not going to accept one of the possible outcomes. Why should the GA vote pro Serbia's initiative when serbia itself doesn't accept the courts opinion?

Serbia trying to solve the problem peacfuly? Why the 1999 never happened? The victims and the crimes should be forgoten now? Those peoples lives don't count anymore?

"Refusal would affect whole world" Jeremic.
Yeah sure, whenever Serbia does not get what she wants, the whole world will be effected and crumbled.
Only now the serbs are thinking of solving the problems through peace but when the serbs had the power, they were not hesitating at all to use the brutal power against unarmed and innocent neighbors

"This is the first time in the turbulent history of the Balkans that someone has tried to resolve a dispute of this importance peacefully," the foreign minister said in an interview with Reuters."
That is another attempt to fool the word and creating a big LIE. The world knows by know the break up of Yugoslavia, ethnic cleansing orchastrated by Slobodan Milosevic on behalf of Serbia state. Serbia was forced out of Kosova and we all know why so please stop trying to full the world about the Serbia's will to resolve the dispute peacefully. Serbia has no choice and lets be STRAIGHT!

"Refusal would affect whole world"

So they were saying for the big-bang experiment ;)

Does Serbia coordinate with Georgia in the ICJ case??? ;)

I am amazed about the dilettantism of Mr. Wolf. I have never seen such a zigzag in the diplomacy. Vuk and his declarations are a very bad copy of Russian diplomacy, which was never and still is not able to resolve problems diplomatically and through dialog but always using a bellicose rhetoric. This initiative, even if is going through and accepted by GA, will result as a boomerang for Serbia first of all and for all those who agreed. Vuk knows this very well, but the poor guy do not have other choice because he and his president has reached the point of non-return in the international policy. Like in the modern wars, nobody can win anymore in a frontal confrontation. The most clever guys eliminate the enemy and the problems piece by piece. Serbs should have know this from their past.

I haven't really cared too much for this intiative, firstly because I don't trust this government and secondly because I don't really think the outcome will matter too much.

Once the occupation gets the boot the conclusion to status will be completed one way or another and Serbia has the upper hand whichever way that is.

All I do know is that Serbia has already offered the Albanians the best deal they will ever get!

"All I do know is that Serbia has already offered the Albanians the best deal they will ever get!"

Did anyone ask Serbia? Nope. We got independence backed by US /EU and NATO. Next we'll get investments, a professional army (only 3300 initially + police,) EU and NATO memberships. All without asking the benevolent Serbs. Croats, Slovenes and Montenegro (almost for MN) didn't ask the Serbs either.

Thanks for the offer though. You are very kind, as usual.

Court trials take time, a simple divorce trial can take as long as 2 years. The legality of the Kosovo's proclamation of independence could take a decade.

If, and there is a good chance, that Serbia's initiation to ask for ICJ's opinion (an institution set up by the countries that bombed Serbia) what will Jeremic do? Will he walk out once again?


David Williams,

what horrible consequences? The people of Belgrade (Beogradians) have already moved on, no one in Serbia is falling for the national trick. It's unpatriotic to play the patriotic propaganda.

No doubt that this refusal could create horrible consequences.

avi:
> The ICJ is going to be very busy in the next 10 years.
So many cases will be opened,the crimes Serbia committed in Slovenia,Croatia,B&H and Kosovo.

Wrong sort of court.

ICC would be the appropriate venue, & you better hope that it doesn't start chasing balkan criminals. Would have a field day with government of 'pseudo-state' especially.

But no worries there for a while.. at least until kangaroo court called ICTY is wound up.

Curious that 'bastion of democracy' isn't a member country of ICC?

ps: apologies to all kangaroos.


hey-hey:
> After all how many posters have have numerously stated that 150+ countries support Serbia over Kosovo.

Don't know, am not one of them.


miri:
> So he is asking the GA to vote but if GA votes against its request, that is equivalent to the use of force?!!

Busy at the 'spinning wheel' again I see.

No, that is not what Jeremic is saying - merely your attempt to twist his words.

What he is saying is that by denying Serbia even the chance of pursing the legal avenue before the ICJ, the UN General Assembly would be encouraging those who would prefer to use 'force' as the latter could then simply say - hey we tried the peaceful approach & we didn't even get a hearing.

And note that that 'force' doesn't have to be military.

And what he is also saying is that this sends a clear message to other governments who might have their separatist issues, that the legal avenue can easily be denied to them which will only strengthen their inclination to use 'force' to resolve the issue instead.

And this is a perfectly reasonable argument which will be stressed by many states during the debate.


ben:
> So they were saying for the big-bang experiment ;)

Last I heard, they had some sort of gliche which prevented a full test. But even where that not the case, would still be far too early to say. An oscillating point-sized singularity for instance would take a fair while to build up mass.

Who knows, clock may already be ticking (swinging?) :)

As for Georgia, wonder who they will be supporting at the GA?

Judging by the number of Albanian and pro Albanian post here I see that there is wide spread panic.
They are resorting now to twisting words to make Serbs look bad and going back to Milosevic constantly. Just as well none of this nonsense will be displayed at the UN or ICJ. Only the facts will be presented and only the rule of law will be expected.

Isn't it about time you left Milosevic out of this as we have already established many, many times that the separatist movement has begun somewhere around 1912, and that's according to Albanians themselves.

I have read numerous times here how Albanians claim they have been wanting to separate since then and now they are using Milosevic as an excuse. For God's sake, he wasn't even born then. Stick to one or the other as using both arguments has lost you all the arguments.

"This is the first time in the turbulent history of the Balkans that someone has tried to resolve a dispute of this importance peacefully," the foreign minister said in an interview with Reuters."

Excuse me -- is this man for real?! what were we desperately trying to do throughout the horrible 90s, play tiddly winks? i mean such remarks are just incomprehensible and will not ALLOw us to take such people seriously.

what about that little dispute of sarajevo under siege for 4 yrs, surrounded by those "nice" sharpshooters and shellers.

i do not know how these men sleep at nite, by i take it their bank accounts are not hurting too much.

roberto
sarajevo

to ZKUK:

I trust this new government as much as I trust the B92-staff...

but, if they do something against serbian interests, they will have to face the poeples anger, and that´s something politicians, and especially politicians like them won´t risk.