NGOs in protest at gay festival violence

Dear John B

I don’t remember a time when a group of queer activists wearing face masks violently attacked an Orthodox priest or people going to an Orthodox Church to worship. Do you?

It should be noted that there were no “Sexual Stances” being made to offend people in the streets. What occurred was an attack on a group of people, who were gathering to celebrate diversity and identity, by a group of fascists who had coordinated the attack via the internet, on sites that related to right-wing nationalistic politics in this country.

It is also no surprise that Queer events and EU politics align. After all they are both about acceptance, diversity, human rights and opportunity.

What is surprising is that anyone could be stupid enough to try and defend an unprovoked violent attack with such juvenile and puerile politics. But JB if you can’t grow up perhaps you could at least try and get your facts right!

"are actually a resumption of the repressive regime of the Nineties, whose reaffirmation was made possible by the policies of Vojislav Koštunica,“ say the NGOs."


why blame the interior ministry for not providing sufficient police protection, or even the government for not promoting civil tolerance when you can blame Vojislav Kostunica who has as much to do with this as mihajlo pupin

As I started to read this article I was waiting to see how they would blame the SRS for the violence but to my surprise they didn't! They blamed Koštunica instead!!

What a joke - the hate reporting continues and I can see how backwards some elements of Serbian media (i.e. B92) still is.

You see roberto, you are wrong again. Can't you ever get it right? So according to B92, homophobia is not a worldwide problem but one due to government policies of the 90's (i.e. Milosevic) and carried through by Koštunica. Without those two, everyone would have at least one gay friend by now.

John,

This is what precisely most people misunderstand. A gay parade is not about advertising an unusual sexual stance. It is about against discrimination. No one expects you or me to become a gay out of sympathy, they expect you to understand, discrimination is path to the hell.

Several decades ago open discrimination was the norm in the States. 150 years ago it was OK to lynch people or to become a hero for being involved in a gunfight over a drink. Now it is not. It takes time to develop that.

The set of laws in the EU and US against age/sex/national origin discriminations is good because with the time people adopt and will be more tolerant.

This (US, EU, gay) is said with the respect, I am with strong pro-Serb bias and have three kids.

As a gay woman myself I would like to say that while this incident is awful it will not put me off from visiting Serbia which I hope to do so next year.

In a country like Serbia it's actually rather impressive that so many people have such a tolerant attitude towards homosexuality to be honest; I grew up in rural England and encountered some very nasty attitudes, so it really is a worldwide problem, and I am looking forward to visiting some time :)

What about respect for Orthodox culture and the Serbian tradition? It's funny how Queer events go hand in hand with EU politrix. No one is stopping then being Queer but advertising a Sexual stance on the streets (be it gay or not) offends most people in Serbia.

John B wrote: "What about respect for Orthodox culture and the Serbian tradition?"

Do you mean you get kicked in Belgrade for celebrating Slava and dancing kolo?

/Carl

I just want to add my support, dare i say san francisco's support (no, i don't represent the whole city, community!!)for the Queer event, and hope that you guys and gals will be able to progress and prosper throughout the balkans. it is an uphill battle, need i point out! the police did the right thing, apparently, for once. as they are supposed to. but the problems run much deeper, the complex roots of homophobia, and intolerance of minorities and what is "different," and that is a long-term struggle.

a big thank you to all of the mentioned organizations (some of whom we've met with) who have consistently taken pro human rights positions. in the midst of so much antagonism. thank you, a thousand times. it is easy enough for me to yack on at a safe distance.

i would just like to add that homophobia and anti-gay (as i call it) violence is not isolated to serbia, and it is a basic human rights issue that needs to be addressed throughout the former yugoslavia, and beyond, of course.

i would like to add that you are all invited to visit "frisco" which is pretty "queer" frndly, and also a real potpouri of ethnicities and different types. it is hardly perfection, but in many ways a model of tolerance for others to emulate...

thank you.

roberto
robertoruss@yahoo.com

homophobia is a worldwide problem, but it's more of a problem in some places than in some others. from my experience with people from this region (and i definitely don't mean just serbia) people really need to educate themselves about homosexuality and learn to tolerate it. which is precisely the purpose of queer events such as rainbow parade or this festival.

This time Robert-O is right. Just in time the proof from Budapest - here it was yesterday (Sept 20) a violence of a much larger extent than in BG on Sept. 19. The target were Jews, Roma and the Russian monument. Same people earlier demonstrated with "death to America" slogan, so I guess, they feel strong. One of the main initiators - as usual - was our "friend" lászló toroczkai, president of "64 Comitates" neo-nazi style party. He is banned from Canada, Slovakia, Serbia, Romania because of violence.

You can see the video:

http://hvg.hu/itthon/20080921_video_zavargasok.aspx

Some pictures of Sept. 20:

http://hvg.hu/gallery/3b699e0d-63d7-40a9-aaa3-679bac4271dc.aspx

BTW: I am sure, there will be more on Oct. 23, the anniversary of 1956. So we decided to anti-celebrate Oct. 23 with the whole family by visiting SK/SRB/BiH (undecided). Fruska Gora has excellent chances.

You want to talk about diversity? Serbia could be a poster child for tolerance and diversity. Forty percent of Serbias population is other than Serbian. They all have representation in government. For those who support gay parades I challenge you if you have the stomach google folsom gay parade, if this is what you want in your town go for it. I feel sorry for most gays because studies show most were molested or raped by adults. I 've been told by some of them it's not a life style you would choose, it's just what I am. I do not advocate violence on a human but the gay community and their western supporters need to back off and have a little respect for the norms and traditions of other countries who do not tolerate this unhealthy life style.

>John,

>This is what precisely most >people misunderstand. A gay >parade is not about >advertising an unusual sexual >stance. It is about against >discrimination. No one >expects you or me to become a >gay out of sympathy, they >expect you to understand, >discrimination is path to the >hell.

i have sympathy for gay people but it doesnt mean its right by my and most serbian peoples morals. But still im not in their bedrooms stopping them. its a free world and they can have sexual pleasure any way the please.


>Several decades ago open >discrimination was the norm >in the States. 150 years ago >it was OK to lynch people or >to become a hero for being >involved in a gunfight over a >drink. Now it is not. It >takes time to develop that.

In the roman empire it was Ok to have sex with men and even young boys. centuries later it wasnt so i agree it does take time to develop that.

>The set of laws in the EU and >US against age/sex/national >origin discriminations is >good because with the time >people adopt and will be more >tolerant.

But Serbia is not the EU. And Orthodoxy has its laws and traditions from the bible.

>This (US, EU, gay) is said >with the respect, I am with >strong pro-Serb bias and have >three kids.

But can i ask you how can these people in the parade (Europhiles, US funded NGOs, gay people) expect respect when they dont respect the majority of peoples moral beliefs in Serbia?

Nobody is advertising sexual stances or trying to force people to be gay. Events like this really cause no harm to anyone and outlawing it would only alienate a lot of people.

It's about ending discrimination.

As for being sexually abused, this never happened to me or the majority of gay people I know. You're quite entitled to your opinion however.

As for Kostunica, I agree with ZK on this. There are many reasons for such homophobic events (which happen in Britain as well - about a year ago a gang of teenagers murdered a gay man for "fun" and recorded it on their mobile phones) which are social and political.

Why blame him? I'm not an expert on Serbian politics but I don't think he ever really mentions homosexuality in any of his speeches, ever.

As I started to read this article I was waiting to see how they would blame the SRS for the violence but to my surprise they didn't! They blamed Koštunica instead!!

What a joke - the hate reporting continues and I can see how backwards some elements of Serbian media (i.e. B92) still is.

You see roberto, you are wrong again. Can't you ever get it right? So according to B92, homophobia is not a worldwide problem but one due to government policies of the 90's (i.e. Milosevic) and carried through by Koštunica. Without those two, everyone would have at least one gay friend by now.

"are actually a resumption of the repressive regime of the Nineties, whose reaffirmation was made possible by the policies of Vojislav Koštunica,“ say the NGOs."


why blame the interior ministry for not providing sufficient police protection, or even the government for not promoting civil tolerance when you can blame Vojislav Kostunica who has as much to do with this as mihajlo pupin

I just want to add my support, dare i say san francisco's support (no, i don't represent the whole city, community!!)for the Queer event, and hope that you guys and gals will be able to progress and prosper throughout the balkans. it is an uphill battle, need i point out! the police did the right thing, apparently, for once. as they are supposed to. but the problems run much deeper, the complex roots of homophobia, and intolerance of minorities and what is "different," and that is a long-term struggle.

a big thank you to all of the mentioned organizations (some of whom we've met with) who have consistently taken pro human rights positions. in the midst of so much antagonism. thank you, a thousand times. it is easy enough for me to yack on at a safe distance.

i would just like to add that homophobia and anti-gay (as i call it) violence is not isolated to serbia, and it is a basic human rights issue that needs to be addressed throughout the former yugoslavia, and beyond, of course.

i would like to add that you are all invited to visit "frisco" which is pretty "queer" frndly, and also a real potpouri of ethnicities and different types. it is hardly perfection, but in many ways a model of tolerance for others to emulate...

thank you.

roberto
robertoruss@yahoo.com

As a gay woman myself I would like to say that while this incident is awful it will not put me off from visiting Serbia which I hope to do so next year.

In a country like Serbia it's actually rather impressive that so many people have such a tolerant attitude towards homosexuality to be honest; I grew up in rural England and encountered some very nasty attitudes, so it really is a worldwide problem, and I am looking forward to visiting some time :)

What about respect for Orthodox culture and the Serbian tradition? It's funny how Queer events go hand in hand with EU politrix. No one is stopping then being Queer but advertising a Sexual stance on the streets (be it gay or not) offends most people in Serbia.

Dear John B

I don’t remember a time when a group of queer activists wearing face masks violently attacked an Orthodox priest or people going to an Orthodox Church to worship. Do you?

It should be noted that there were no “Sexual Stances” being made to offend people in the streets. What occurred was an attack on a group of people, who were gathering to celebrate diversity and identity, by a group of fascists who had coordinated the attack via the internet, on sites that related to right-wing nationalistic politics in this country.

It is also no surprise that Queer events and EU politics align. After all they are both about acceptance, diversity, human rights and opportunity.

What is surprising is that anyone could be stupid enough to try and defend an unprovoked violent attack with such juvenile and puerile politics. But JB if you can’t grow up perhaps you could at least try and get your facts right!

You want to talk about diversity? Serbia could be a poster child for tolerance and diversity. Forty percent of Serbias population is other than Serbian. They all have representation in government. For those who support gay parades I challenge you if you have the stomach google folsom gay parade, if this is what you want in your town go for it. I feel sorry for most gays because studies show most were molested or raped by adults. I 've been told by some of them it's not a life style you would choose, it's just what I am. I do not advocate violence on a human but the gay community and their western supporters need to back off and have a little respect for the norms and traditions of other countries who do not tolerate this unhealthy life style.

This time Robert-O is right. Just in time the proof from Budapest - here it was yesterday (Sept 20) a violence of a much larger extent than in BG on Sept. 19. The target were Jews, Roma and the Russian monument. Same people earlier demonstrated with "death to America" slogan, so I guess, they feel strong. One of the main initiators - as usual - was our "friend" lászló toroczkai, president of "64 Comitates" neo-nazi style party. He is banned from Canada, Slovakia, Serbia, Romania because of violence.

You can see the video:

http://hvg.hu/itthon/20080921_video_zavargasok.aspx

Some pictures of Sept. 20:

http://hvg.hu/gallery/3b699e0d-63d7-40a9-aaa3-679bac4271dc.aspx

BTW: I am sure, there will be more on Oct. 23, the anniversary of 1956. So we decided to anti-celebrate Oct. 23 with the whole family by visiting SK/SRB/BiH (undecided). Fruska Gora has excellent chances.

John,

This is what precisely most people misunderstand. A gay parade is not about advertising an unusual sexual stance. It is about against discrimination. No one expects you or me to become a gay out of sympathy, they expect you to understand, discrimination is path to the hell.

Several decades ago open discrimination was the norm in the States. 150 years ago it was OK to lynch people or to become a hero for being involved in a gunfight over a drink. Now it is not. It takes time to develop that.

The set of laws in the EU and US against age/sex/national origin discriminations is good because with the time people adopt and will be more tolerant.

This (US, EU, gay) is said with the respect, I am with strong pro-Serb bias and have three kids.

John B wrote: "What about respect for Orthodox culture and the Serbian tradition?"

Do you mean you get kicked in Belgrade for celebrating Slava and dancing kolo?

/Carl

homophobia is a worldwide problem, but it's more of a problem in some places than in some others. from my experience with people from this region (and i definitely don't mean just serbia) people really need to educate themselves about homosexuality and learn to tolerate it. which is precisely the purpose of queer events such as rainbow parade or this festival.

>John,

>This is what precisely most >people misunderstand. A gay >parade is not about >advertising an unusual sexual >stance. It is about against >discrimination. No one >expects you or me to become a >gay out of sympathy, they >expect you to understand, >discrimination is path to the >hell.

i have sympathy for gay people but it doesnt mean its right by my and most serbian peoples morals. But still im not in their bedrooms stopping them. its a free world and they can have sexual pleasure any way the please.


>Several decades ago open >discrimination was the norm >in the States. 150 years ago >it was OK to lynch people or >to become a hero for being >involved in a gunfight over a >drink. Now it is not. It >takes time to develop that.

In the roman empire it was Ok to have sex with men and even young boys. centuries later it wasnt so i agree it does take time to develop that.

>The set of laws in the EU and >US against age/sex/national >origin discriminations is >good because with the time >people adopt and will be more >tolerant.

But Serbia is not the EU. And Orthodoxy has its laws and traditions from the bible.

>This (US, EU, gay) is said >with the respect, I am with >strong pro-Serb bias and have >three kids.

But can i ask you how can these people in the parade (Europhiles, US funded NGOs, gay people) expect respect when they dont respect the majority of peoples moral beliefs in Serbia?

Nobody is advertising sexual stances or trying to force people to be gay. Events like this really cause no harm to anyone and outlawing it would only alienate a lot of people.

It's about ending discrimination.

As for being sexually abused, this never happened to me or the majority of gay people I know. You're quite entitled to your opinion however.

As for Kostunica, I agree with ZK on this. There are many reasons for such homophobic events (which happen in Britain as well - about a year ago a gang of teenagers murdered a gay man for "fun" and recorded it on their mobile phones) which are social and political.

Why blame him? I'm not an expert on Serbian politics but I don't think he ever really mentions homosexuality in any of his speeches, ever.