“Georgia invasion soured Russo-Serbian relations”

“Georgia invasion soured Russo-Serbian relations”

Is that why over eighty percent of Serbs support Russia in this conflict?
Goble,Goble

Mr. Gobel hit it right on the mark. There is no ifs and buts about.All I can say is: "Wise man", if anybody thinks otherwise please convince me with facts.

He said that the “reason Serbia has been very restrained regarding Georgia is a sign that Belgrade is closer in that regard to Brussels than Moscow.”

Not quite. It would be more accurate to say Brussels and Washington are demonstrably closer to Moscow. They just have to wake up and apply their Georgia stance to Kosovo and Metohija.

Belgrade has remained consistent, principled and uncompromised.

“Integrating Serbia into the EU would mark the end of conflicts on the territory of the former Yugoslavia, and would ensure that the region becomes a lasting part of the West,” said the former White House official.

Would that be an offer to reintegrate Republika Srpska and Krajina into Serbia?

Kosovo and Metohija is a given.

goeb.. gobe… having trouble spelling here :)
nothing new, i know :) but anyway this is just lovely propaganda.
lets just call him mr american someone: for this souring to happen, our blood in our veins and our souls would have to sour first. not to mention our tongues would have to paralyze when we speak our language.
because those are all parts of our national being that tie us to russia. nothing more, nothing less.
now your puppets in this country might try to sour what they like, but they are not SRBIJA.

The New World Order is based on the principle "Might is Right."

Russia has defeated Georgia and can dictate its own terms. When the bankrupt USA withdraws its hillbilly soldiers then the Kosovo Albanians will need to organise themselves better than they have done so far.

The recognition of South Ossetia or Kosovo is of no consequence. All that matters is the ability to defend ones territorial claims.

"Georgia invasion soured Russo-Serbian relations"

Is that the best he can do?

"Mr. Gobel hit it right on the mark. There is no ifs and buts about.All I can say is: "Wise man", if anybody thinks otherwise please convince me with facts.
(Zana Qerepi, 17 September 2008 13:03)"

Zana Qerepi,

On the contrary, Goble missed the point completely. The point is that Russia was making Kosovo a precedent for Ossetia.

And I predict furthermore, it won't all just end with Ossetia. Separatists all over the world are dying to make a precedent of Kosovo too!

This person is a complete fake and I really don't understand why such a cheap article would appear here (well, on second thoughts it's really not that surprising). The whole article is flawed.

As Michael rightly pointed out, the new world disorder is based on regional power and with Serbia being that in the Balkans, who controls Serbia controls the Balkans.

Now this is where the West made a huge mistake as there was a time when Serbia/Yugoslavia would have gladly joined the union but that opportunity has long died.

Anyway, someone needs to tell this fake that the Lisbon treaty did not get ratified and so there is no acceleration for any prospective member. Period.

I suspect the West is now eager to get Serbia within its sphere before it capitulates and draws a new iron curtain around itself but that battle is already lost - just like Georgia, Ukraine and many more to follow!

Yes, very troubling for Serbia..... not.

There is a simple way to rationalize this.

KOSOVO
Kosovo is part of Serbia. End of story. No ifs or buts. Refer to mainstream international law.

GEORGIA
Due to Georgia's attempted genocide of the Ossetians and Abhazians, they have lost the right to govern these territories. It is a "unique" and totally "one off" situation. No implications anywhere else.

Confused?

No problem - go and ask G.Bush and C.Rice for explanations... they wrote the book on it.

I am wondering if the title of this article is a translation of the comments of the US official or purely an invention of b92. If b92 do not want to upset Russia it is better to right "The conflictin Georgia sourded Russo-Serbian relations instead of "Georgia invasion soured Russo-Serbian relations” Everybody knows that Russia invaded Georgia's territory. Georgia was trying to maintain these territories as Serbia is struggling to do in case of Kosovo. I hope it is clear for every sane Serbian brain that Russia is using Serbia for its chauvinist interests.

first the scary part: this is an intellectual in the western hemisphere.

1.) you can´t compare the legal indiependence of abhazia and south-ossetia with the occupation of south-serbia and the ethnic cleansing of 350 000 serbs.

2.) even if you could compare liberation with occupation, moscow has every right in this world for double-standards. reading that trash one could think it is moscow that has double-standards.

3.) serbia - without ds but also without kostunica - would now had liberated kosovo a few months ago, if it was up to the russians. in february they had their plane-carrier (admiral kuznecov), huge parts of the northern-fleet and the complete black-sea-fleet in the adriatic.

but tadic got commander in chief and kostunica didn´t want to neutralize him without an election and the russians went home.

and that´s probably the real problem here: within a few months the russians said "ok, then new order in caucasus first". they moved whole armys without nato even noticing, they responded within 24 hours, and they won a war within 72 hours. showing 78 day nato how it is done, without being brutal (it´s orthodox christians there and not cecens), and especially how it is done in this millenium (taking georgia off the internet for 72 hours, not allowing any kind of propaganda).

it hurts, i know, but thats ok.

"When the bankrupt USA withdraws its hillbilly soldiers then the Kosovo Albanians will need to organise themselves better than they have done so far."

USA is far from bankrupt and its hillbilly soldiers are the best in the world, with no close second. When they leave Albanians soldiers will take their place and even if Seselj's nephew is Serbia's President he will not dare attack a region 95% non-Serb that doesn't want to be ruled by Serbs. If Kosova joins anything it will be Albania and maybe 'Illirida,' not Serbia.

Instead of beating your chest, think about it: Serbs launched four wars because no one else was armed and you were much larger.

EU is trying to pull you away from Russians, but as bad as they are, Russians are your only friend. Once you leave them, you will truly be alone. EU will keep saying do this and that for 10-12 years for EU.

Peter RV

Why do 80% of Serbs support Russia in this conflict when they support the territorial integrity of Serbia, yet not the territorial integrity of Georgia? How can 80% of Serbs support someone whose moral integrity is like that of the side they accuse it of (USA) and who can recognize Kosovo tomorrow or the next day?

How are Russia in any way different than the USA? They are the same hypocrites. At least the West has some economic perspective for Serbia, unlike Russia does.

I support Russia in driving out Georgia and defeating their armies, but instead of reverting back to pre-war positions and maintaining a peace-keeping force, they recognized the independence of two de-facto independent regions in direct contradiction to their arguments about international law and territorial integrity.

It is obvious that Serbia has never endured Russian domination so I can understand why they feel this way towards the Russian state, but they should not get too close to Russia or they will end up like the rest of the ex-Warsaw Pact. I really do envy Serbia as being a part of something as great as Yugoslavia was.

Bottom line: Comments such as Gobels, or perhaps Gobbels, stinks of desperation. EVERYONE knows the US was the power behind the stupidity of Georgia's military adventure turned disaster.

The thought must be to say something, anything, that will harm Russia and to a lesser extent, Serbian Russian relations. Like in Serbia, say the lie 1000s of times until a whole or part becomes truth.

No one is bitting Mr.Double Talking, wanna be stand up guy, beurocrat.

ha ha ha, US hillbillies are the best soldiers in the world. So why are they not in Georgia taking on the Russians. Thay trained the georgians who proved to be military incompetent.

Just remember, Serbia's relationship with the EU is based on convenience, they both need each other for trade and transport links while Serbia's relationship with Russia is based on emotion, i.e respect, and genuine friendship with things in common, slavic orthodox cousins etc. I certainly dont believe that serbias respect and love for its slavic cousin has been deminished unlike the fools in the west who have applied bombs and sanctions while calling us there friends. So the comment from washington is simple what they hope and not reality.

Peter Sudyka (#&)

There is an enormous difference between the Georgian and Serbian cases.
Abhazia and especially Ossetia have never been historically part of Georgia (Gruzia), they were generous presents of certain Dzugashvili (a.k.a. Stalin) to his fatherland ( that is perhaps why his statue still stands on a prominent square in Gori).
Both, Abhasia and Ossetia did belong to the Russian Empire since they (as well as Georgia!)were liberated from Ottoman's rule, but as separate autonomous entity with direct representation to the Tzar.
You may not have heard this ,but besides South Ossetia ,there exists also the North Ossetia populated by the exactly same ethnic group.(things get complicated dont they?).
Kosovo,on the other hand, represents practically the whole of the Serbian history
It is for this reason that Albanians have destroyed there,ferrociously, the Serbian medieval churches and monasteries.(If the Serbs
could annex what is left of them, as well as the Serbian enclave of Mitrovica- and leave the rest- in my mind this would be a satisfactory
solution- but,as we are told - Kosovo is, unlike Serbia- indivisible.
If you are upset about Georgia, you'll be even more so about Ukraina which is going to be the next hot spot.Inevitably so, if the US insists in making it a Nato playground. And you know what? Serbs are going to be overwhelmingly ,there too, on the side of Russia.
The reasons being two.
First,at least half of the Ukraine speaks and feels Russian (especially Krimea which was another bolshevik gift of Khrushchev to his native land).
Second, and this is even more decisive for the Serbs.
Our historical experience with Russia (except the Soviet one) is totally positive. We consider ourselves as brothers and all attempts (and there are plenty of them lately instigated from the West) will fall on Serbian deaf ears. Our link to Russia is spiritual and, sooner or later, Serbs will go with the Russians.
This is a feeling, by no means, shared by non-Orthodox Slavs (I suspect you might be one of them)who might have their own reasons for it, but that is not our problem.

“Georgia invasion soured Russo-Serbian relations”
: maybe it did a little bit.
But I don't think that anything
can really screw up our relations.
President Tadic said it clearly: Serbia won't do anything which isn't in her interest. That is why official Belgrade did not made any statement in regard to Georgian conflict: they didn't know how it will turn out to our issue with Kosovo.
But apart from that, we loved Russian action of repeating the same rethorics and action that USA once applied to Kosovo , just to proove how crazy/absurd that is.
And we definitely share the feeling for the Russian people who were being ethnically clensed with the help of NATO from their land. Just like how Serbs from Kosovo were ethnically clensed by K-Albanians.

For many westerners it is paradoxal to understand the Serbian backing of Russia in the Georgian conflict.

It is very simple- both of them love the land grab to their neighbours they never care about LAW and JUSTICE. End of paradox- it is modus vivendi.

DiC

Serbia begging the EU for a trade deal and cash? Where did you get that information? Perhaps some politicians have carrot poisoning but they certainly don't represent the will of the population. The EU and US are bankrupt so they don't have any cash to throw around but it's our friends in the BRIC that have huge foreign cash reserves. That will become more evident in the not too distant future. Just wait and see as the tide has well and truly turned my friend.

When the bankrupt USA withdraws its hillbilly soldiers then the Kosovo Albanians will need to organise themselves better than they have done so far."

USA is far from bankrupt and its hillbilly soldiers are the best in the world, with no close second. When they leave Albanians soldiers will take their place and even if Seselj's nephew is Serbia's President he will not dare attack a region 95% non-Serb that doesn't want to be ruled by Serbs. If Kosova joins anything it will be Albania and maybe 'Illirida,' not Serbia.

Tell me, which war has America actually won?
They got their behinds kicked by the Russians and pro Russian Vietnamese, Korea is divided, Afghanistan is never going to be won and Iraq is giving them such a headache.

I don't see any wins here. Japan was the only place they had a win and that's because of the bombs.
In Iraq the US is not alone. There is a coallition of the willing as they put it and yet they can't see the end to this.

How does this make the US marine such a great fighting machine?
Georgians were trained by the US and they ran like children when faced with a real soldier. So if you Albanians think that you can take the Russians or Serbs on, think again. US marines can't even fight against Afghanis who are supposed to be not well trained let alone an army who are.

Peter Sudyka you wrote.

You mention Russians and Serbians. Serbia was beaten by both Slovenia and by Croatia (I will not even mention NATO).

When exactly did Serbia fight against Slovenia? If you are referring to the cowardly act of the Slovenians attacking JNA soldiers who were orderned not to fire at them, then yes they lost that war.

JNA retreated WITHOUT the war. Check your facts again. They simply had no desire to stop Slovenia from seceding.

Croatia did not win as the way the Serbs were expelled from Krajina is an ugly blemish on Croatia. Clinton helped orcherstate that move and the UN was prevented from going in a stopping the Croatian army from ethnically cleansing the Serbs from their homes. Just ask the Canadian peacekeepers about that one.
It was Croatian army against the Serbs from Krajina and not Croatian army against Serbian army.
I really thought that you are a man who checked his facts and was objective, but I guess I was wrong.

You are sounding very much like the Albanians when you say Serbia lost the wars. Serbia did not send her army to Croatia or Bosnia. The Serbian population there fought on their own.

I am particularly surprised that you can say Serbia lost against Slovenia. Even the Serbs there did not fight the Slovenians.

So, I ask again. Which wars did America win? They did not win WW2 as mentioned by Ment. They only won against Japan. Without Russia, Europe would be run by Germans now and that's a fact.

Forget about excuses like guerilla warfare etc. The bottom line is they have not won anything yet and doesn't look like the will.

"I suspect the West is now eager to get Serbia within its sphere before it capitulates and draws a new iron curtain around itself but that battle is already lost - just like Georgia, Ukraine and many more to follow!"

Haha! Serbia is BEGGING EU for for some cash and a trade deal, not the other way around. An iron curtain will be your demise, Russia can;t even send any more expired food unless EU agrees to.

Peter Sudyka (#24)
You may not have noticed but I was never arguing against what is right and what is wrong according the International Law -you have such a high regard for.
Your International Law ,dear sir, has expired the moment that the U.S. has decided that its military base in Kosovo (Bondsteel) needs to have a new nation ('Kosova')surrounding it as a guarantee for its existance.
As far as your devotion to the International Law of sovereignity of the borders,is concerned, I hate to tell you it has suffered a Humpty-Dumpty fall, right at that moment.
So, my dear sir, after Kosovo, everybody is for what is right (or might) for himself.
Would you like the Serbs to commit a hari-kiri for some abstract principles of yours?
You've got to be kidding.
Another question to be answered.
Serbs don't see any parallel between the behaviours of the U.S. and Russia.
Russia has not invaded a country (Iraq) and caused over one million and two hundred thousand deaths in that country (all of these people would have been alive today if Saddam Hussain was still in power- think about that- Peter Sudyka).
Russia did not bomb Serbia and destroy its economy, killing scores of its citizens.
So, don't you give that that crap of yours "Russia is as bad as the U.S., to the Serbs".
Peddle your ideas somewhere else, my dear Polak, Slovak, Croat, or whatever you are.

I don't think at all that serbo-russian relationships went bad because of the independence of the new states of Abkzhazia and South Ossetsia.

Everyone in Serbia understands that the new countries in Caucasus are truly unique cases and bear no similarity to Kosovo at all. So one can not compare the southern serbian province of Kosovo to the newest countries in the world.

Yes, it is true that they have not yet been recognized by many countries, but you have to give them some time. We will see in a few years from now how many recognitions they have got.

The future starts now for Abkzhazia and South Ossetia, Georgia better accept the situation on ground that these new countries will never again be ruled by Georgia and move on to the future, in EU and NATO if they want.
Georgians will have a much better future if they can just accept the fact that the worlds newest states Abkzhazia and South Ossetia will never again be ruled by Georgians, regardless of what George, Obama or MCCain says.

Michael Thomas: "The New World Order is based on the principle "Might is Right."

The "old" World Order, based on the pronciple of sovereignity is absed too on "might is right"! Sovereignity was based on the principle: "Cuios regio - eios religio". Whoever hold the power determines the religion (of his subjects) A dictator could do whatever within his "internationally recognized" borders with inpunity!
Is the new world order any better? WHe don't know yet!

mark

The reason why NATO is not taking on Russia in Georgia is because nobody wants to risk an all-out world war over some country in the Caucasus. Why do you think your Slavic Orthodox cousins didn't help you when NATO was bombing you? You think Russia would risk all-out war over Serbia against NATO in 1999?

veki

Those "Russians" that were being ethnically cleansed from Georgia are Abkhazians and Ossetians, which are Caucasian and Iranian peoples respectively.

Peter RV

I know the history of the Ossetians and the Abkhazian people (the history of the Caucasus is also a fascinating one, like the Balkans in some ways), but nitpicking about who the land belonged to and when and for what reasons is not an argument that one can use today when sovereignty of states is governed (or should be governed by international law). The fact of the matter is, since the forming of the UN and the concept of territorial integrity thereof, countries like Serbia and Georgia should have their borders governed by these laws and not interpreted by some security council members with big egos (hence my point about both Russia and the United States).

If people were to individually interpret who has and who hasn't right to their own state, we would not have 192 UN member states, but probably somewhere around 392 UN member states in the world, not to mention as many seccesionist wars. International law MUST be respected, and it is irresponsible countries like the United States and Russia that cause more harm than good in their positions as nuclear power permanent security council members.

Peggy

Vietnam, Iraq and Afghanistan were long and drawn out due to guerilla warfare. Iraq's regular army was completely annihilated by the US in the early 90's, whereas in Vietnam, the regular army did not tackle the US headon, they fought a guerilla war, as did the rebels in Afghanistan. Korea was a tie.

You mention Russians and Serbians. Serbia was beaten by both Slovenia and by Croatia (I will not even mention NATO). Russia could not win their war in Afghanistan either. Why is that? They fought against guerillas who they could not beat in almost 20 years. Chechnya? The Russian army was beaten heavily in the first war, and technically has not really won the second one yet, as can be seen by the recurrent and sporadic terrorist attacks, like can be seen in Iraq/Afghanistan.

What is the key similarity? A war against guerillas cannot be won easily and carries on for years, even if it is Russia or America who are involved. Against other regular forces, sure, America and Russia are hardly beaten. Russia crushed Georgia's army, the same way the US crushed Serbia's army. Had it come to guerilla warfare, the wars would still not be over.

Srboslav

What you say is representative of why there we have these problems in the Balkans and Caucasus with separatist regions. If international law was objectively respected and unquestioned, we would not have problems, but since we have Russia and America (plus their satellites, be it on one side or the other) bending international law to suit their intentions and make up completely BS stories of one incident being unique and the other one not, why no not surprize that neither side can agree with the other?

Peggy

By all means, do not let your distaste of Albanians and Americans cloud your judgment or you give you any illusions.

What wars did America win? Why, the biggest ones, WW1, WW2, and the Cold War. In that last one, they simply brought the Soviet Union to its knees...without firing a single gun in their direction. Genious? Indeed...

In Georgia, yes the US trained the Georgian soldiers, but they were also smart enough to warn the Georgians not to start a conflict with Russia. Why? Simple numbers...150 million people against 5 million. Only nukes can address that imbalance and Georgia did not have them. Saakashvili was simply an idiot.

In Afghanistan, the primary reason why the US is not "winning" there is because the Taliban is no longer in Afghanistan, but rather inside Pakistan. As Peter S. mentioned before, guerrilla warfare is difficult by its very nature. Add to that, the fact that the US. cannot go and hunt the Taliban inside the sovereign borders of an "allied" country and you can see why it has not finished off the Taliban yet. Rest assured, it's not a lack of military might, but rather politics that is getting in the way of victory.

Albanians cannot stand up to Russia alone, simply because they're about the same size as Georgia. But then neither can Serbia. Any Western military power would simply crush you if it came to war. Why? Because you're a small country with very limited resources.

Finally, don't draw conclusions based on the 1990-s war in Kosovo. The Serbian army was facing a population armed with AK47 and a few RPG-s at best. It's easy to be "brave" when you have a gun and the other side is fighting with rocks. That's unlikely to ever happen again.

first of all, before you start arguing, that goes for both of you here, Serbs as well as also the K-albanians who are of course also serbian citizens:

have you noticed at all, that this article, or to be more precise, it´s source is VOA?

do you hear it ring?

the article isn´t even worth reading!

as for the quite entertaining comments...:
don´t know who it was ( it´s unimportant anyway ) but one ethnic Albanian wrote about Serbia´s " land-grab " as a " modus vivendi ".

I was immediately amused.. does this boy know what he´s been saying at all? =)

think before using latin phrases, my dear!

"serbia - without ds but also without kostunica - would now had liberated kosovo a few months ago, if it was up to the russians. in february they had their plane-carrier (admiral kuznecov), huge parts of the northern-fleet and the complete black-sea-fleet in the adriatic. "- Raso.

Come on Raso, are you serious? Russia is a failed military power. The cold war ended because the Soviet Union surrendered. The fact that Russia got the lottery - in the form of the oil prices- is not a substitute for economic and military infrastructure.

the history teaches that what goes around comes around...you get it by war and you leave it by war.

The fact that Kosova was never allowed to be a Republic in the former Yougoslavia is only because the Albanians had nothing to share with the other Yougoslav peoples.

Yougslavia- the best former socialist country- was doomed not because of Albanians but because all the other slavic peoples didn't want to live with Serbs anymore. Yougoslavia -essentially a great idea- was created to allow people to be better off togethe; it went astray because this intention did not proved true. It is widely accepted or believed this happened because of the hegemony the Serbs pretended to create on the others.

Mr. Gobel hit it right on the mark. There is no ifs and buts about.All I can say is: "Wise man", if anybody thinks otherwise please convince me with facts.

I am wondering if the title of this article is a translation of the comments of the US official or purely an invention of b92. If b92 do not want to upset Russia it is better to right "The conflictin Georgia sourded Russo-Serbian relations instead of "Georgia invasion soured Russo-Serbian relations” Everybody knows that Russia invaded Georgia's territory. Georgia was trying to maintain these territories as Serbia is struggling to do in case of Kosovo. I hope it is clear for every sane Serbian brain that Russia is using Serbia for its chauvinist interests.

Peter RV

Why do 80% of Serbs support Russia in this conflict when they support the territorial integrity of Serbia, yet not the territorial integrity of Georgia? How can 80% of Serbs support someone whose moral integrity is like that of the side they accuse it of (USA) and who can recognize Kosovo tomorrow or the next day?

How are Russia in any way different than the USA? They are the same hypocrites. At least the West has some economic perspective for Serbia, unlike Russia does.

I support Russia in driving out Georgia and defeating their armies, but instead of reverting back to pre-war positions and maintaining a peace-keeping force, they recognized the independence of two de-facto independent regions in direct contradiction to their arguments about international law and territorial integrity.

It is obvious that Serbia has never endured Russian domination so I can understand why they feel this way towards the Russian state, but they should not get too close to Russia or they will end up like the rest of the ex-Warsaw Pact. I really do envy Serbia as being a part of something as great as Yugoslavia was.

"When the bankrupt USA withdraws its hillbilly soldiers then the Kosovo Albanians will need to organise themselves better than they have done so far."

USA is far from bankrupt and its hillbilly soldiers are the best in the world, with no close second. When they leave Albanians soldiers will take their place and even if Seselj's nephew is Serbia's President he will not dare attack a region 95% non-Serb that doesn't want to be ruled by Serbs. If Kosova joins anything it will be Albania and maybe 'Illirida,' not Serbia.

Instead of beating your chest, think about it: Serbs launched four wars because no one else was armed and you were much larger.

EU is trying to pull you away from Russians, but as bad as they are, Russians are your only friend. Once you leave them, you will truly be alone. EU will keep saying do this and that for 10-12 years for EU.

first the scary part: this is an intellectual in the western hemisphere.

1.) you can´t compare the legal indiependence of abhazia and south-ossetia with the occupation of south-serbia and the ethnic cleansing of 350 000 serbs.

2.) even if you could compare liberation with occupation, moscow has every right in this world for double-standards. reading that trash one could think it is moscow that has double-standards.

3.) serbia - without ds but also without kostunica - would now had liberated kosovo a few months ago, if it was up to the russians. in february they had their plane-carrier (admiral kuznecov), huge parts of the northern-fleet and the complete black-sea-fleet in the adriatic.

but tadic got commander in chief and kostunica didn´t want to neutralize him without an election and the russians went home.

and that´s probably the real problem here: within a few months the russians said "ok, then new order in caucasus first". they moved whole armys without nato even noticing, they responded within 24 hours, and they won a war within 72 hours. showing 78 day nato how it is done, without being brutal (it´s orthodox christians there and not cecens), and especially how it is done in this millenium (taking georgia off the internet for 72 hours, not allowing any kind of propaganda).

it hurts, i know, but thats ok.

"I suspect the West is now eager to get Serbia within its sphere before it capitulates and draws a new iron curtain around itself but that battle is already lost - just like Georgia, Ukraine and many more to follow!"

Haha! Serbia is BEGGING EU for for some cash and a trade deal, not the other way around. An iron curtain will be your demise, Russia can;t even send any more expired food unless EU agrees to.

"Mr. Gobel hit it right on the mark. There is no ifs and buts about.All I can say is: "Wise man", if anybody thinks otherwise please convince me with facts.
(Zana Qerepi, 17 September 2008 13:03)"

Zana Qerepi,

On the contrary, Goble missed the point completely. The point is that Russia was making Kosovo a precedent for Ossetia.

And I predict furthermore, it won't all just end with Ossetia. Separatists all over the world are dying to make a precedent of Kosovo too!

This person is a complete fake and I really don't understand why such a cheap article would appear here (well, on second thoughts it's really not that surprising). The whole article is flawed.

As Michael rightly pointed out, the new world disorder is based on regional power and with Serbia being that in the Balkans, who controls Serbia controls the Balkans.

Now this is where the West made a huge mistake as there was a time when Serbia/Yugoslavia would have gladly joined the union but that opportunity has long died.

Anyway, someone needs to tell this fake that the Lisbon treaty did not get ratified and so there is no acceleration for any prospective member. Period.

I suspect the West is now eager to get Serbia within its sphere before it capitulates and draws a new iron curtain around itself but that battle is already lost - just like Georgia, Ukraine and many more to follow!

Yes, very troubling for Serbia..... not.

There is a simple way to rationalize this.

KOSOVO
Kosovo is part of Serbia. End of story. No ifs or buts. Refer to mainstream international law.

GEORGIA
Due to Georgia's attempted genocide of the Ossetians and Abhazians, they have lost the right to govern these territories. It is a "unique" and totally "one off" situation. No implications anywhere else.

Confused?

No problem - go and ask G.Bush and C.Rice for explanations... they wrote the book on it.

For many westerners it is paradoxal to understand the Serbian backing of Russia in the Georgian conflict.

It is very simple- both of them love the land grab to their neighbours they never care about LAW and JUSTICE. End of paradox- it is modus vivendi.

ha ha ha, US hillbillies are the best soldiers in the world. So why are they not in Georgia taking on the Russians. Thay trained the georgians who proved to be military incompetent.

Just remember, Serbia's relationship with the EU is based on convenience, they both need each other for trade and transport links while Serbia's relationship with Russia is based on emotion, i.e respect, and genuine friendship with things in common, slavic orthodox cousins etc. I certainly dont believe that serbias respect and love for its slavic cousin has been deminished unlike the fools in the west who have applied bombs and sanctions while calling us there friends. So the comment from washington is simple what they hope and not reality.

“Georgia invasion soured Russo-Serbian relations”
: maybe it did a little bit.
But I don't think that anything
can really screw up our relations.
President Tadic said it clearly: Serbia won't do anything which isn't in her interest. That is why official Belgrade did not made any statement in regard to Georgian conflict: they didn't know how it will turn out to our issue with Kosovo.
But apart from that, we loved Russian action of repeating the same rethorics and action that USA once applied to Kosovo , just to proove how crazy/absurd that is.
And we definitely share the feeling for the Russian people who were being ethnically clensed with the help of NATO from their land. Just like how Serbs from Kosovo were ethnically clensed by K-Albanians.

goeb.. gobe… having trouble spelling here :)
nothing new, i know :) but anyway this is just lovely propaganda.
lets just call him mr american someone: for this souring to happen, our blood in our veins and our souls would have to sour first. not to mention our tongues would have to paralyze when we speak our language.
because those are all parts of our national being that tie us to russia. nothing more, nothing less.
now your puppets in this country might try to sour what they like, but they are not SRBIJA.

Peter Sudyka (#&)

There is an enormous difference between the Georgian and Serbian cases.
Abhazia and especially Ossetia have never been historically part of Georgia (Gruzia), they were generous presents of certain Dzugashvili (a.k.a. Stalin) to his fatherland ( that is perhaps why his statue still stands on a prominent square in Gori).
Both, Abhasia and Ossetia did belong to the Russian Empire since they (as well as Georgia!)were liberated from Ottoman's rule, but as separate autonomous entity with direct representation to the Tzar.
You may not have heard this ,but besides South Ossetia ,there exists also the North Ossetia populated by the exactly same ethnic group.(things get complicated dont they?).
Kosovo,on the other hand, represents practically the whole of the Serbian history
It is for this reason that Albanians have destroyed there,ferrociously, the Serbian medieval churches and monasteries.(If the Serbs
could annex what is left of them, as well as the Serbian enclave of Mitrovica- and leave the rest- in my mind this would be a satisfactory
solution- but,as we are told - Kosovo is, unlike Serbia- indivisible.
If you are upset about Georgia, you'll be even more so about Ukraina which is going to be the next hot spot.Inevitably so, if the US insists in making it a Nato playground. And you know what? Serbs are going to be overwhelmingly ,there too, on the side of Russia.
The reasons being two.
First,at least half of the Ukraine speaks and feels Russian (especially Krimea which was another bolshevik gift of Khrushchev to his native land).
Second, and this is even more decisive for the Serbs.
Our historical experience with Russia (except the Soviet one) is totally positive. We consider ourselves as brothers and all attempts (and there are plenty of them lately instigated from the West) will fall on Serbian deaf ears. Our link to Russia is spiritual and, sooner or later, Serbs will go with the Russians.
This is a feeling, by no means, shared by non-Orthodox Slavs (I suspect you might be one of them)who might have their own reasons for it, but that is not our problem.

DiC

Serbia begging the EU for a trade deal and cash? Where did you get that information? Perhaps some politicians have carrot poisoning but they certainly don't represent the will of the population. The EU and US are bankrupt so they don't have any cash to throw around but it's our friends in the BRIC that have huge foreign cash reserves. That will become more evident in the not too distant future. Just wait and see as the tide has well and truly turned my friend.

mark

The reason why NATO is not taking on Russia in Georgia is because nobody wants to risk an all-out world war over some country in the Caucasus. Why do you think your Slavic Orthodox cousins didn't help you when NATO was bombing you? You think Russia would risk all-out war over Serbia against NATO in 1999?

veki

Those "Russians" that were being ethnically cleansed from Georgia are Abkhazians and Ossetians, which are Caucasian and Iranian peoples respectively.

Peter RV

I know the history of the Ossetians and the Abkhazian people (the history of the Caucasus is also a fascinating one, like the Balkans in some ways), but nitpicking about who the land belonged to and when and for what reasons is not an argument that one can use today when sovereignty of states is governed (or should be governed by international law). The fact of the matter is, since the forming of the UN and the concept of territorial integrity thereof, countries like Serbia and Georgia should have their borders governed by these laws and not interpreted by some security council members with big egos (hence my point about both Russia and the United States).

If people were to individually interpret who has and who hasn't right to their own state, we would not have 192 UN member states, but probably somewhere around 392 UN member states in the world, not to mention as many seccesionist wars. International law MUST be respected, and it is irresponsible countries like the United States and Russia that cause more harm than good in their positions as nuclear power permanent security council members.

“Georgia invasion soured Russo-Serbian relations”

Is that why over eighty percent of Serbs support Russia in this conflict?
Goble,Goble

He said that the “reason Serbia has been very restrained regarding Georgia is a sign that Belgrade is closer in that regard to Brussels than Moscow.”

Not quite. It would be more accurate to say Brussels and Washington are demonstrably closer to Moscow. They just have to wake up and apply their Georgia stance to Kosovo and Metohija.

Belgrade has remained consistent, principled and uncompromised.

“Integrating Serbia into the EU would mark the end of conflicts on the territory of the former Yugoslavia, and would ensure that the region becomes a lasting part of the West,” said the former White House official.

Would that be an offer to reintegrate Republika Srpska and Krajina into Serbia?

Kosovo and Metohija is a given.

The New World Order is based on the principle "Might is Right."

Russia has defeated Georgia and can dictate its own terms. When the bankrupt USA withdraws its hillbilly soldiers then the Kosovo Albanians will need to organise themselves better than they have done so far.

The recognition of South Ossetia or Kosovo is of no consequence. All that matters is the ability to defend ones territorial claims.

"Georgia invasion soured Russo-Serbian relations"

Is that the best he can do?

Bottom line: Comments such as Gobels, or perhaps Gobbels, stinks of desperation. EVERYONE knows the US was the power behind the stupidity of Georgia's military adventure turned disaster.

The thought must be to say something, anything, that will harm Russia and to a lesser extent, Serbian Russian relations. Like in Serbia, say the lie 1000s of times until a whole or part becomes truth.

No one is bitting Mr.Double Talking, wanna be stand up guy, beurocrat.

When the bankrupt USA withdraws its hillbilly soldiers then the Kosovo Albanians will need to organise themselves better than they have done so far."

USA is far from bankrupt and its hillbilly soldiers are the best in the world, with no close second. When they leave Albanians soldiers will take their place and even if Seselj's nephew is Serbia's President he will not dare attack a region 95% non-Serb that doesn't want to be ruled by Serbs. If Kosova joins anything it will be Albania and maybe 'Illirida,' not Serbia.

Tell me, which war has America actually won?
They got their behinds kicked by the Russians and pro Russian Vietnamese, Korea is divided, Afghanistan is never going to be won and Iraq is giving them such a headache.

I don't see any wins here. Japan was the only place they had a win and that's because of the bombs.
In Iraq the US is not alone. There is a coallition of the willing as they put it and yet they can't see the end to this.

How does this make the US marine such a great fighting machine?
Georgians were trained by the US and they ran like children when faced with a real soldier. So if you Albanians think that you can take the Russians or Serbs on, think again. US marines can't even fight against Afghanis who are supposed to be not well trained let alone an army who are.

I don't think at all that serbo-russian relationships went bad because of the independence of the new states of Abkzhazia and South Ossetsia.

Everyone in Serbia understands that the new countries in Caucasus are truly unique cases and bear no similarity to Kosovo at all. So one can not compare the southern serbian province of Kosovo to the newest countries in the world.

Yes, it is true that they have not yet been recognized by many countries, but you have to give them some time. We will see in a few years from now how many recognitions they have got.

The future starts now for Abkzhazia and South Ossetia, Georgia better accept the situation on ground that these new countries will never again be ruled by Georgia and move on to the future, in EU and NATO if they want.
Georgians will have a much better future if they can just accept the fact that the worlds newest states Abkzhazia and South Ossetia will never again be ruled by Georgians, regardless of what George, Obama or MCCain says.

Michael Thomas: "The New World Order is based on the principle "Might is Right."

The "old" World Order, based on the pronciple of sovereignity is absed too on "might is right"! Sovereignity was based on the principle: "Cuios regio - eios religio". Whoever hold the power determines the religion (of his subjects) A dictator could do whatever within his "internationally recognized" borders with inpunity!
Is the new world order any better? WHe don't know yet!

Peggy

Vietnam, Iraq and Afghanistan were long and drawn out due to guerilla warfare. Iraq's regular army was completely annihilated by the US in the early 90's, whereas in Vietnam, the regular army did not tackle the US headon, they fought a guerilla war, as did the rebels in Afghanistan. Korea was a tie.

You mention Russians and Serbians. Serbia was beaten by both Slovenia and by Croatia (I will not even mention NATO). Russia could not win their war in Afghanistan either. Why is that? They fought against guerillas who they could not beat in almost 20 years. Chechnya? The Russian army was beaten heavily in the first war, and technically has not really won the second one yet, as can be seen by the recurrent and sporadic terrorist attacks, like can be seen in Iraq/Afghanistan.

What is the key similarity? A war against guerillas cannot be won easily and carries on for years, even if it is Russia or America who are involved. Against other regular forces, sure, America and Russia are hardly beaten. Russia crushed Georgia's army, the same way the US crushed Serbia's army. Had it come to guerilla warfare, the wars would still not be over.

Srboslav

What you say is representative of why there we have these problems in the Balkans and Caucasus with separatist regions. If international law was objectively respected and unquestioned, we would not have problems, but since we have Russia and America (plus their satellites, be it on one side or the other) bending international law to suit their intentions and make up completely BS stories of one incident being unique and the other one not, why no not surprize that neither side can agree with the other?

Peter Sudyka (#24)
You may not have noticed but I was never arguing against what is right and what is wrong according the International Law -you have such a high regard for.
Your International Law ,dear sir, has expired the moment that the U.S. has decided that its military base in Kosovo (Bondsteel) needs to have a new nation ('Kosova')surrounding it as a guarantee for its existance.
As far as your devotion to the International Law of sovereignity of the borders,is concerned, I hate to tell you it has suffered a Humpty-Dumpty fall, right at that moment.
So, my dear sir, after Kosovo, everybody is for what is right (or might) for himself.
Would you like the Serbs to commit a hari-kiri for some abstract principles of yours?
You've got to be kidding.
Another question to be answered.
Serbs don't see any parallel between the behaviours of the U.S. and Russia.
Russia has not invaded a country (Iraq) and caused over one million and two hundred thousand deaths in that country (all of these people would have been alive today if Saddam Hussain was still in power- think about that- Peter Sudyka).
Russia did not bomb Serbia and destroy its economy, killing scores of its citizens.
So, don't you give that that crap of yours "Russia is as bad as the U.S., to the Serbs".
Peddle your ideas somewhere else, my dear Polak, Slovak, Croat, or whatever you are.

Peggy

By all means, do not let your distaste of Albanians and Americans cloud your judgment or you give you any illusions.

What wars did America win? Why, the biggest ones, WW1, WW2, and the Cold War. In that last one, they simply brought the Soviet Union to its knees...without firing a single gun in their direction. Genious? Indeed...

In Georgia, yes the US trained the Georgian soldiers, but they were also smart enough to warn the Georgians not to start a conflict with Russia. Why? Simple numbers...150 million people against 5 million. Only nukes can address that imbalance and Georgia did not have them. Saakashvili was simply an idiot.

In Afghanistan, the primary reason why the US is not "winning" there is because the Taliban is no longer in Afghanistan, but rather inside Pakistan. As Peter S. mentioned before, guerrilla warfare is difficult by its very nature. Add to that, the fact that the US. cannot go and hunt the Taliban inside the sovereign borders of an "allied" country and you can see why it has not finished off the Taliban yet. Rest assured, it's not a lack of military might, but rather politics that is getting in the way of victory.

Albanians cannot stand up to Russia alone, simply because they're about the same size as Georgia. But then neither can Serbia. Any Western military power would simply crush you if it came to war. Why? Because you're a small country with very limited resources.

Finally, don't draw conclusions based on the 1990-s war in Kosovo. The Serbian army was facing a population armed with AK47 and a few RPG-s at best. It's easy to be "brave" when you have a gun and the other side is fighting with rocks. That's unlikely to ever happen again.

Peter Sudyka you wrote.

You mention Russians and Serbians. Serbia was beaten by both Slovenia and by Croatia (I will not even mention NATO).

When exactly did Serbia fight against Slovenia? If you are referring to the cowardly act of the Slovenians attacking JNA soldiers who were orderned not to fire at them, then yes they lost that war.

JNA retreated WITHOUT the war. Check your facts again. They simply had no desire to stop Slovenia from seceding.

Croatia did not win as the way the Serbs were expelled from Krajina is an ugly blemish on Croatia. Clinton helped orcherstate that move and the UN was prevented from going in a stopping the Croatian army from ethnically cleansing the Serbs from their homes. Just ask the Canadian peacekeepers about that one.
It was Croatian army against the Serbs from Krajina and not Croatian army against Serbian army.
I really thought that you are a man who checked his facts and was objective, but I guess I was wrong.

You are sounding very much like the Albanians when you say Serbia lost the wars. Serbia did not send her army to Croatia or Bosnia. The Serbian population there fought on their own.

I am particularly surprised that you can say Serbia lost against Slovenia. Even the Serbs there did not fight the Slovenians.

So, I ask again. Which wars did America win? They did not win WW2 as mentioned by Ment. They only won against Japan. Without Russia, Europe would be run by Germans now and that's a fact.

Forget about excuses like guerilla warfare etc. The bottom line is they have not won anything yet and doesn't look like the will.

first of all, before you start arguing, that goes for both of you here, Serbs as well as also the K-albanians who are of course also serbian citizens:

have you noticed at all, that this article, or to be more precise, it´s source is VOA?

do you hear it ring?

the article isn´t even worth reading!

as for the quite entertaining comments...:
don´t know who it was ( it´s unimportant anyway ) but one ethnic Albanian wrote about Serbia´s " land-grab " as a " modus vivendi ".

I was immediately amused.. does this boy know what he´s been saying at all? =)

think before using latin phrases, my dear!

"serbia - without ds but also without kostunica - would now had liberated kosovo a few months ago, if it was up to the russians. in february they had their plane-carrier (admiral kuznecov), huge parts of the northern-fleet and the complete black-sea-fleet in the adriatic. "- Raso.

Come on Raso, are you serious? Russia is a failed military power. The cold war ended because the Soviet Union surrendered. The fact that Russia got the lottery - in the form of the oil prices- is not a substitute for economic and military infrastructure.

the history teaches that what goes around comes around...you get it by war and you leave it by war.

The fact that Kosova was never allowed to be a Republic in the former Yougoslavia is only because the Albanians had nothing to share with the other Yougoslav peoples.

Yougslavia- the best former socialist country- was doomed not because of Albanians but because all the other slavic peoples didn't want to live with Serbs anymore. Yougoslavia -essentially a great idea- was created to allow people to be better off togethe; it went astray because this intention did not proved true. It is widely accepted or believed this happened because of the hegemony the Serbs pretended to create on the others.