Albanians talk unrest over Kosovo

Macedonians and Montenegreans are wise. They know that the likelihood of Kosovo being part of Serbia again is far LOWER than the likelihood of Serbia being disintegrated further in 3-4 other parts.

So Macedonia and Montenegro are doing a favour to Serbia, by recognising Kosovo, since this may slow down further disintegration of Serbia in the very near future.

"for the “sake of the country’s stability”...

well, if they think they will get away with that, just do it. :)

what will Gruevski do if there is a ruling in favor of Serbia? ...but who knows, whether he will still be in power...

that´s certainly not sovereign behaviour, if you are not forced to do something for the "stability of the country"...

don´t expect help from Serbia, if the albanian extremists try to grab your territory... but before that don´t expect help from the US. :)

Do it Macedonia, but remember - when your country begins to disintegrate look to Bulgaria and Albania for help. Actually when you do disintegrate, and you will, both those two will rejoice, as they can divide you between the two of them. Thus the end of your country, short-lived independce and all the other nice titles your western friends gave you.

"for the sake of the country's stability." That comment speaks volumes to all concerned.

Macedonia is being threatened by peace loving albanian neighbors and citizens. Like South Ossetia and Georgia, these "orders" have been and continue to receive green light approval by that defunct institution that used to be call The State Department. As with the recent recognition by some island nation of 500 in the Pacific, the west continues down the path of strong arm recognition tactics against these absolutely defenseless nations.

Poor Prime Minister Nikola Gruevski!! He let himself bowed to US/EU bullying.

Your decision will bring shame to Macedonia

To 'SerbExile'

I totally agree with you,because as far as we know from history your birth-place is from that region(russia) you are denizen in the Balkans.
Best wishes from Prishtina..

Hmmm. No comment from the Greek side. FYROMians speak a Bulgarian dialect. Their grammar is 90% identical to that of Bulgarian but the vocabulary has tons of Serbian words unlike the "Macedonian" dialects (read: Bulgarian dialects) from Bulgarian and Greek Macedonia. The Bulgarian dialects from Bulgarian Macedonia and the standard Bulgarian language share 95% of the vocabulary and 90-95% of the grammar. There are only a few words that are common to the Bulgarian dialects from Bulgarian Macedonia and the FYROMian language but are absent in standard Bulgarian or other Bulgarian dialects.
If we take into account the vocabulary then FYROMian can be considered as a Serbian dialect as well, since 85-90% of the words are similar in Serbian and FYROMian. This is why the Serbs will always like and care more about the fellow Slavs FYROMians than about the Greeks. Not long time ago Yugoslavia in which the Serbs were a majority tried to steal Aegean Macedonia from Greece, during the Greek civil war. Thus if I were Greek I would immediately stop supporting the Serbs against the Albanians. The Greeks and Albanians (together with the Bulgarians) have a common interest in disintegrating FYROM.
My advice to Greeks and Bulgarians: veto FYROM's accession to EU. Serbia will never join the EU with Kosovo inside because the countries that have recognized Kosovo's independence will veto its accession. Even if Serbia accepts Kosovo's independence (which is never going to happen) and wants to join the EU without Kosovo inside, Bulgaria should veto its accession (Greece should follow suit although one veto is enough).

To Romanian
The absence of comments of Greek posters is probably due to the fact that the article is not connected with any developments that affect Greece directly.
Whereas i agree with your description of the Fyromian language as being a Bulgarian dialect that includes Croatian & Serbian vocabulary i will take issue with your conclusion about Serbian actions against Greece.
I,for one,do not identify the actions of Tito's old Yugoslavia against Greece as being the actions of Serbia.
Serbia was only one of the six republics that made up old Yugoslavia.
Secondly,the only reason as to why Serbia recognised Fyrom with its constitutional name is based on the fact that both people lived together for some considerable time and this is how they know them.
Thirdly, we'll continue to support UN resolutions that provide for the territorial integrity of sovereign nations.
Finally, as far as Greece's veto on Fyrom's accession to EU is concerned,there is a political consensous in Greece that Gruevski &co will not be allowed the EU door unless the name issue is resolved.And this is the only issue between the two countries as far as Greece is concerned.Furthermore,we do not wish the disintegration of Fyrom which
obviously will not be a peaceful one.We'd rather see a prosperous nation on our borders that will develop friendly relations with all its neighbours.

Both Fyrom and Crna Gora will recognize Kosovo in short order-perhaps by the new year. Both entities realize that the opposition from the servile Serbian regime will only be cosmetic. Both realize if they fail to recognize Kosovo, the reaction from the Albanian gangster statelets will be fast and furious, and most importantly, fully backed by the western empire.

The only choice left for patriotic Serbs is to form a government in Exile-within the Russian Federation-this is the only honorable choice left for us-and it will happen within a couple of years. There are many governmnts in exile-including Tibet. Some of the smartest and bravest Serbs will join our dissident ranks. The only thing that remains unknown is the reaction of the Russian federation, but from what we have gathered so far, Russia will gleefully consent.

long live Serbia
long live Russia

JOIN US

#10 Romanian
"Hmmm. No comment from the Greek side."
Why should we intervene? If the fyromian Slavs want to keep their country in one part (for the moment) they will recognise the UDI. If they want to disintegrate, they will not recognise it. I dont know what this has to do with us. We dont want wish this Slavic country to disolve. Nor it favors us if you know how to think wider.

"from Bulgarian and Greek Macedonia."
Dont make such mistakes please. There is no Bulgarian, Greek, Slavic, Japanese Makedonia. There is only one and it is in Greece already exept of a small 7-10% that is occupied by fyrom. The original boundaries of Makedonia are within Greece.

"the Serbs were a majority tried to steal Aegean Macedonia from Greece, during the Greek civil war. Thus if I were Greek I would immediately stop supporting the Serbs against the Albanians."
The doings of the leaders do not always reflect the feelings of the people. Stalin and Tito had nothing to do with the will of people but with the world domination. So what you said is not a good excuse for me to stop supporting what is right.

"The Greeks and Albanians (together with the Bulgarians) have a common interest in disintegrating FYROM."
No. The contrary. We Greeks want that Slavic country to exist actually. Think wider.

"Serbia will never join the EU with Kosovo inside because the countries that have recognized Kosovo's independence will veto its accession."
Irrelevant argument. There is no conenction between those 2. Kosovo UDI isnt and never was a condition for Serbia to enter EU.

@7 ardian
"as far as we know from history your birth-place is from that region(russia) you are denizen in the Balkans."
Yours too.

@all
Funny thing is that noone mentions the blackmailing of the albanians inside fyrom, you know the ones that are forming a new party to put pressure on fyromian goverment to recognise Kosovo UDI. It only shows that those people do not feel at all citizens of fyrom rather than pure albanians, which is of course understandable. But still it also shows that those people will not support their own "country" (fyrom), no loyalty at all, even when their own "country" faces dire situations, inside and out. But it was always like this with some people, we just have to learn to tolerate them.

I wonder if Montenegro will follow suit immediately, or better I think there is apossibility that both Macedonia and Montenegro have coordinated between each other to declare the recognition at the same time. Will see what future will bring.

Macedonia and Montenegro are going to recongize Kosova indepedence, guess who is next !!!!

I don't think there was any doubt about this. Albanians in Macedonia have been pushing for recognition since February 17, and have been nothing but a source of headache to officials in Skopje. Recognition doesn't mean Macedonia actually agrees with independence. Rather, it's a safety valve to relieve pressure.

However, like Samoa's recognition yesterday, and the very likelihood of additional one or two recognitions in the next few weeks, none of this will actually improve conditions IN Kosovo. The north will still look to Serbia Proper. The SPC will still be a virtual independent unit. Pristina will still be taking marching orders from Washington and Brussels. Corruption will still be a perennial way of life. Economics will still be rudimentary and in the hands of a small elite circle who are backed for their political stances by the West. The recognitions now are little more than symbolic. Even if Kosovo was only recognized by Albania, the US, Germany, and England, it would be exactly where it is today. Conversely, even if Thaci's fictitious list of "100 nations" recognized, Kosovo would STILL be where it is today. Bosnia is an internationally recognized country, supported by international organizations, and led by a High Representative, and yet it is one of the most fragmented and corrupt countries in Europe, and this is exactly where I see Kosovo's future. Recognitions mean nothing at this point other than to score bragging rights by Albanian diaspora nationalists.

One should have learned that statements and media reports this or that country WILL recognize Kosovo are worthless. There have been news that even Serbia will recognize Kosovo.
Let's keep the facts otherwise you'll repeat the same "news" several times.. like its beeing done here.

Zoran, I had to double check my own coment, which is # 6, and was unable to find the words" Albanians are in minority in Montenegro". What prompted you to address me with something that I have not mentioned I don't know.
By the way, Montenegro will not recognize Kosovo just becasue of Albanians in Montenegro, but becasue of its foreghn policy that suits them.

Just for the record I want to state that me Nikitas and Leonidas are 2 totally different persons and I am sure B92 can verify this anytime. I am just stating this since our posts are of the same mentality and I dont want anyone to start talking nonsense about us.

@Romanian.
"how do you expect me to call "Bulgarian Macedonia"?"
There is no such thing, so you dont need to call it in any way. You can just say "Bulgaria".

"The Serbs would chose FYROMians' friendship over Greeks' any time."
Definately. They have more relations between them than with us, I totally agree.

"As for Kosovo's independence recognition not been linked to Serbia's EU accession"
You can examine the Cyprus issue about this.
Free Cyprus entered, the occupied part stayed out, Cyprus is trying to solve the occupation problem and it looks like they might make it.

"Once a country recognizes K's independece they can't change their mind afterwards and stop recognizing it."
They can. ICJ might help with this.

"I bet Tito ruled Yugoslavia with the help of many ethnic Serbs (I can't imagine Titio ruling Yugoslavia with Croats and Slovenes only). Those Serbs had no objection"
Again. A few pepole in a closed communist regime, do not represent the will of the oppressed people.

Leonidas has it 100% right. Greece and Greeks do not wish to see the break up on FYROM, in fact, we wish to see it become a stable and prosperous country where its people can live peaceful lives. Our objection is solely based on the fact that they want to use the term "Macedonian" in their name. The break-up of what is today FYROM would pose a sizable problem for Greece; it would lead to increased instability on its borders and it would force Greece into intense diplomatic action and possibly military action against separtist forces on its border.

One might suspect that the Greek government and Greek people are naive and far removed from the violence of the Balkans, but we realize that if the Albanians continue their aggressive separatism and complete disregard of established borders, then we will be forced to act. Greece is the only actor in the Balkans militarily, financially, politically, and diplomatically equipped to put a stop to the instabiity. For much of the 1990s we stood by and provided only moral and humanitarian support to Serbia. Further Albanian aggression, especially on and around the Greek border will certainly spur a Greek response.

The FYROM issue is one that will be solved within the near future. For better or worse (probably worse at least in the Greek view), the FYROMians will be allowed to use a compound name like "Upper" or "Northern" Macedonia in exchange for Greece's recognition of their ethnicity and language. Once that is settled, the Greeks will have a vested interest in keeping FYROM stable and safe, and I am certain it will take a pro-active role in securing those interests.

From Athina.

Romanian,

You still make no point due to your lack of knowledge on SFRJ as you admitted yourself. Your assumptions cannot be taken for the fact since you seem to have some personal issues with Serbia instead of having more objective and non biased stand. With such attitude you won’t be ever able handle the facts in regard to Serbia and its policy. Forgive me to say, but your statement that Serbia was trying to steal Aegean Macedonia from Greece, is rather bizarre.

I don’t blame you for having your opinion but please, try not to base the opinion after your assumption which is unfortunately based on your personal issue that you have with Serbia (believe to be Vlach’s status within Serbia) and thus far just continuous wish to insult Serbia.

Zana Qerepi - Albanians are only a small minority in Montenegro. if they try to cause trouble there, they'll be looking at the four walls of a prison cell for many years.

PRN - you seem to have got yourself into a muddle my dear boy. It's Kosovo that's facing disintegration (assuming it doesn't stay within Serbia's borders), not Serbia. There is no strategic advantage to the Americans to break up Serbia any further. They have bondsteel in Kosovo now, so the Albo's in Presevo and Bujanovac just have to face upto the fact that they will forever live in Serbia. Kosovo is a different case. i'd chop it into two pieces, and i think that ultimately that's what will happen, Serbia taking a far larger chunk than the Albo's will be happy with.

then they should start getting used to losing support from the orthodox countries, and get used to going against 8 million albanians that do not want to live with them.
(American International Group, 17 September 2008 17:07)

Why I don't see nothing international and peac loving in this post???

Leonidas, get it straight this time: Nobody blackmailed Macedonia! Its more a logical thing! The Albanian side gives Gruevski a deadline to recog. UDI and if not they will break the coalition and abandon the parliament - what do youthink the consequences would be when 30% of its population is not being represented?!Albanians are not a threat to Macedonia, Greece is since it calles her by a name of a dead country!
@ Mike: If KOsovo didnt try to fight back against serbia and didnt declare independence, what do you think, what would kosovo be now? a paradise? Pls enlighten me!

Zana Qerepi - I didn't say that you said that in comment 6. my point is that Macedonia has such a large Albanian minority that the mere threat of secession is enough to force the Macedonian government to recognise Kosovo (if that report is correct), whereas Montenegro doesn't face the same problem. It has a large "Serb" minority so my guess would be that they'll wait to see if Serbia get's the opportunity to approach the ICJ for a ruling. If Serbia does get the opportunity for an ICJ ruling, the number of countries which will recognise Kosovo from here onwards will just about come to a halt as most countries will wait to here on the ruling.

I'm getting ahead of myself here. first let's see if Serbia gets it's wish.

to Leonidas:
My point was that the Serbs and FYROMians have a lot more in common than the Serbs and Greeks. As far as I know the Serbs think the FYROMians are a kind of Serbs who speak a Torlakian (Serbian) dialect.
Don't try to blame Yugoslavia's attempt to steal Greek territory on Tito only. Although I am not familiar with Yugoslav politics I bet Tito ruled Yugoslavia with the help of many ethnic Serbs (I can't imagine Titio ruling Yugoslavia with Croats and Slovenes only). Those Serbs had no objection to what Tito was trying to do: steal Greek territory. On the contrary.
You have to realize that between Serbs and FYROMians there is a great friendship originated in the similarity of the two languages. The Serbs would chose FYROMians' friendship over Greeks' any time.
to Nikitas:
I know that the "Aegean Macedonia" is the real Macedonia but how do you expect me to call "Bulgarian Macedonia"? Bulgarian FYROM?
As for Kosovo's independence recognition not been linked to Serbia's EU accession:
Serbia will want to join EU with Kosovo inside. The EU member countries that have recognize Kosovo's independence won't agree to that since that means that they accept Serbia's old border and no longer recognize Kosovo's independence which can't happen. Once a country recognizes K's independece they can't change their mind afterwards and stop recognizing it.

Well, if any such unrest does indeed occur, then I expect the Albanian government and the US government to make it clear to those Macedonian Albanians that do make trouble that their behaviour will not be tolerated. Period.

I'm getting sick of ethnic Albanian parties in Macedonia playing the secession card every time a difficult political issue is raised. Somebody needs to remind these so-called leaders/analysts that blackmailing and backstabing not only reflect badly on Macedonian Albanians but also on the rest of Albanians elsewhere. It breeds suspicion among all our neighbours that we still have designs for a "Greater Albania", which I for one, don't give a damn about. This also provides ammunition for nationalist psychopaths of all stripes to pursue destructive/divisive policies that only hold our countries back and further ruin our already lousy reputations with the rest of the world.

Like it or not, Macedonia is what it is now and the Albanians there had better start treating that country as their adopted motherland and work with their fellow Slavic compatriots to improve Macedonia. Instead of building resentment, how about building trust instead?

As far as I am concerned, I would much rather have wealthy, healthy Albanians living in 6 Balkan countries, than one "Greater Albania" distrusted and hated by its neighbors.
"Greater Albania", "Greater Serbia", "Greater Macedonia", "Greater Greece" ideologies, all belong in the dust bin.

@26 Doni
"for Greece - the name problem is gone."
What name problem is gone?
The fyromian Slavs are not respecting any kind of mediation. They stick to their own extremist and irredentist agenda. Great. The name is still there and it will be the obstacle for them to grow. No EU, no Nato, no country.
And I am saying again, WE Greeks dont want that, we want them to exist if they like to exist. Ifyou cant see the wider picture in this case, sorry, i cant put it in your head.

@Dimitar.
you obviously confuse opinions with facts. You know, one man's judgement is not historical proof, even if it was written before 16 years, which for you is ancient history (it goes back to the creation of your Slavic country), but for us Makedonians is just yesterday since we, as Greeks, go 4000 back.
But ts ok. I really feel for you a lot of sympathy. I wish I could help all misguided people like you and show them the light :)

It's pretty clear that macedonia would eventually recognize. Not too smart for them. Not becuase they need srbija's support, but because like many posters on this site said, this will cause internal problems and potentially an end of its existence.

Its disgusting how politics work in the balkans. But the tides always turn.

A few greek posters on this site stated that srbija should change its recognition of macedonia and call it fyrom. I totally agree with this. If they recognize the udi of kosovo, then they should start getting used to losing support from the orthodox countries, and get used to going against 8 million albanians that do not want to live with them.

Here we go again with the Albainian threats. If Macedonia doesn't recognize Kosovo there will be "instability". PRN, you realy think that your day dreaming will come true. exlpain to me you hypothosis of Serbia breaking up even more. Romanian, WHAT!?! I'm half Romanian and half Serbian with my family comeing from Banat, Serbia and I never heard of Romanians from Serbia think that way. Unless your from Romania. That might explain it. I know here in Metro Detroit the Romanians from Serbia And the Romanians from Romania don't get along that well.Besides the only thing that I know about romanian culture is the church and the language. Other than that I was raised as a Yugo/Serb. Zivele Srbija! Also I feel that Serbs Value the Greeks over the Macedonians. What has Macedonia offered to Serbia over Kosovo, not support as the Greeks do. I have nothing against Macedonians and never will. And I know that most Macedonians support Serbia. It's the Macedonian gov. that is scared of the Albanian threats if the don't recognize the UDI. Hell they saw what the Albanians did in Kosovo and are sill doing.

Unless Skopje recognizes Kosovo, ethnic Albanian analysts say, South Ossetia-style "unrest" is possible.
--
Hey look, it's true! Albanians lobbying other countries to recognise Kosovo Albanian style. It's too bad they are not allowed to bring guns into the UN otherwise they might just get all members to recognise Kosovo.

Gruevski & Djukanovic dammed if they do recognise and dammed if they don't. What fool stated that Kosovo's independence would bring stability to the Balkans ?

@ment:
I agree to you, I´d rather like to see the Albanians integrated and in prosperity although living in six different countries, there is no doubt that I am on your side with that, BUT as we can see at the moment ( unfortunately ) the Albanians are doing all they can to become the pariah of the next generation. you´ll be hated if you go on with that...and certainly not only by the Serbs.

and the balances will shift, that´s something you can count on.

Serbia will not desist from their southern province, and if you are a smart guy, you know that.

so, whatever happens, the Albanians of today will be held responsible for it.

and by being submissive to the Americans, you are just choosing the wrong card...

but after all, that is your own choice...

what is so sad about it, you do not ( not you as an individual, I mean all of the seperatists ) realize that the USofA are only supporting the Albanians to maintain control in Europe by keeping tensions on a certain level so that they can keep up their justification for camp bondsteel and their mere presence in the region at all.

so, the Albanians are being duped, and they simply do not get it. not yet.

but they will. I am convinced of it. let´s all hope the differences will be settled peacefully, like the new Serbia is just proving to do...

it´s up to you...whether you will mess it all up, or whether you will emancipate yourself from foreign yoke and become an autonomous province within Serbia, what you actually are, or stay a vassal...

it´s up to you...

good night.

Leonidas, get it straight this time: Nobody blackmailed Macedonia! Its more a logical thing! The Albanian side gives Gruevski a deadline to recog. UDI and if not they will break the coalition and abandon the parliament - what do youthink the consequences would be when 30% of its population is not being represented?!Albanians are not a threat to Macedonia, Greece is since it calles her by a name of a dead country!
(braveheart22, 17 September 2008 20:45)

Have you read my comments?You confuse me with someone else.

Romanian, your attempt to put a wedge between Serbian and Greek brothers is not working.
Greeks are not stupid and will not fall for your cheap tricks.
Greeks and Serbs are very aware that the Serbs were the ones who were oppressed under Tito who even denied Serbs the right to return to Kosovo after WW2 in order to create an inbalance of ethnic mix.

It was Tito who settled the Muslims and Croats in Serb areas but never the other way around. He was a dictator and Serbs were his victims. The few traitors who were Serbs did not represent the will of the Serbian people but rather their own ambitions.

Divide and conquer is a way of your masters, the Americans. I say your masters as you are clearly not Orthodox Romanian but either Catholic or even or Albanian decent. If you were Orthodox you would not speak against the Serbs or try to divide the Orthodox people.

This "article" is completely false; no such things are happening in MACEDONIA, nor will MACEDONIA recognise Kosovo anytime soon!!

There is in fact a changing of the political guard in the Albanian bloc in MACEDONIA with the departure of former Health Minister Imer Selmani from the moribund DPA.

Selmani is one of the new cadre of younger politicians in Macedonia, whose new political party, Nova Democratija, is rumoured to replace the DUI in government in the future. Selmani is that rarity in the Balkans, an Albanian politician with a platform. His public statements include dialogue and "sozivot" between the Albanian and MACEDONIAN people. He has already been proclaimed as a traitor to the Albanian people by his former leader, the dour anti charismatic Taci! He is also the only Albanian politician popular among MACEDONIANS!

Too, there is a potential changing of the guard in the DUI, as the younger intellectual wing is at odds with the older ANA members! All of these issues are good for MACEDONIA! So dream on dushmani; your efforts will be your own undoing!

dear Ment, if you meant if that way, you´re wrong of course.

there is no "kosova" as you certainly know... only an illusion created to calm the Albanians and to install foreign power into the balkan peninsula...

but on one point I agree with you, the borders are set, indeed. and they won´t be moved. UNSC 1244 is cementing it.

as for the nationalist bickering, isn´t it interesting that your fellow k-albanian friends are the ones sending out threats here? ...they are nervous, it seems.

and with reason.

"Unless Skopje recognizes Kosovo, ethnic Albanian analysts say, South Ossetia-style "unrest" is possible."

Kosovo is the precedent for Ossetia. And now even the Albanians themselves (in Macedonia) are seeing Ossetia as a precedent for themselves ..... coming full circle are we?

And the West were boasting that Kosovo can never become any precedent! I am reminded yet again of the proverbial osterich with its head stuck in the sand!

@ Nikitas,

what is the wider picture with FYROM dissintegration?

for Greece - the name problem is gone.

Hans Lothar Scheppan, German ambassador to MACEDONIA from 1992-95, in his book (sourced from the German Foreign Ministry dossier on MACEDONIA),"The Macedonian
Knot" writes, quote;

"In the Balkan Wars of 1912/13, MACEDONIA's neighbors annexed MACEDONIAN territory, now they are attepting to annex the MACEDONIAN identity. Greece would like to change MACEDONIA's name, even though before the Balkan Wars, Greece had never occupied MACEDONIAN territory. Neither in the Antique Period, the millenia after Christ's birth, the Ottoman period etc. Only with the help of the Entente were they able to forcibly take and occupy MACEDONIAN territory. Today they would annex the identity, while Bulgaria is trying to annex the language."
end quote.

This is one of countless historical accounts,read FACTS you might avail yourself of, before you spread your silly propaganda!

"Hey look, it's true! Albanians lobbying other countries to recognise Kosovo Albanian style. It's too bad they are not allowed to bring guns into the UN otherwise they might just get all members to recognise Kosovo.
(ZK UK, 17 September 2008 23:50)"

I am starting to think that this ZK UK is someone from the B92 staff. Whenever there is no debate here, HE comes in and everything is a mess afterwards!

You mentioned guns, but you shouldn't man, cz you, the Serbians, know it better than anyone else in the world that conflicts and problems do not get solved by guns. Starting from the your most recent weaponry use in Kosova, going back to Bosnia, Croatia and Slovenia, what has Serbia benefited here? NOTHING! And what about these aforementioned countries, EVERYTHING! Now all of these countries I mentioned above are independent, but not only. Slovenia's avarege monthly salary is around 1.300 Euros (what about in Serbia?), not to mention Croatia, who's coastline is getting more and more attractive for the foreigners (and Serbia?)! Bosnia still got issues, but hey, it's free of Serbia! And the last (but maybe not least) Kosova. It's independent, free of Serbia's genocide, and heading to the EU! And where does Serbia stand now? In the middle of a economic disaster!

I just wanted let you know that guns are not problem-solvers, but problem-makers! If you point a gun at me, you are not solving your problems, cz if you kill me, you are the one who's gonna have to deal with the consequences.

And to all of you, YES, Macedonia will recognize Kosova, whether you like it or not, but it's not that the recognition is gonna solve our problems, but your country is gonna have to pay another ticket back home for the Serbian ambassador in Macedonia! And guess who's money are they spending - YOURS!

It's the moment of truth guys.

Greets from Prishtina!

to nik: Are you a Bulgarian from Serbia?
I know that Serb word were inserted into the " Macedonian" dialect in order to make it more distant from standard Bularian. That dialect already had a sizable Serbian influence even before that. Anyway given that today Serbs and FYROMians can understand one another without any dictionary it would me more adequate to call the "Macedonian language" a Serbian dialect than a Bulgarian one. "Macedonian" dialects of Bulgaria are however pure Bulgarian dialects since both their grammar and their vocabulary are almost identical to that of standard Bulgarian.
to dimitar: That German doesn't know a thing about Macedonian history. How can he claim that Macedonia was never part of Greece? Macedonia was part of the Byzantine Empire which was a Greek statehood! He is probably anti-Greek, anti-Bulgarian and pro-FYROMian due to the fact that both Greeks and Bulgarians are pro-Russian and the German hate Russia a lot for dividing their country into Federal and Democratic Germanies after world war 2.
to nikitas: I was referring to what is commonly known as "Bulgarian Macedonia" or "Pirin Macedonia" a territory that used to be inhabited by Thracians in antiquity. If I call that territory Bulgaria as you recommend nobody will know what part of Bulgaria I mean. I think it is better to keep calling it Bulgarian Macedonia and the few Bulgarian villages in Albania-Albanian Macedonia.
to bmrusila:
I never said Serbia tried to steal Aegean Macedonia. I said Yugoslavia populated mainly by Serbs tried to steal it.
I am sure ordinary Serbs would have agreed to trying to steal Aegean Macedonia from Greece. I bet if they had been asked: "Do you want our country Yugoslavia to get bigger by incorporating a part of Greece where a few fellow Slavs live?" 95% would have agreed. So don't tell me that I am not making a point.
By the way, for your information there are no "Vlachs" in Serbia. They are all Romanians whether you like it or not and whether some of them call themselves Vlachs or not. I am sure you know that Vlashko was the name the Serbs and Bulgarians gave Wallachia and "vlah" is an obsolete name for Rumun (Romanian). I said this once on this forum and I am saying it again: I visited Serbia a few weeks ago and I met Romanians from the villages near Majdanpek. When I asked them if they were Romanian they said yes. They didn't say they were "Vlachs".
to delje: You are a half Serb half Romanian. You will probably marry a Serb or already did that and your children will only be a quarter Romanian. You are lost for the Romanian nation unfortunately. Look on the bright side of things: the same happens to the Serbs in Romanian Banat who are getting less and less as each year passes.

Jovan

When I listed 6 Balkan countries, I meant

1. Albania,
2. Kosovo,
3. Montenegro,
4. Macedonia
5. Serbia
6. Greece

In both Macedonia and Montenegro, Albanians share power with their fellow Slavic citizens and that's why I'm disappointed at the arm-twisting tactics that their parties in Macedonia are using.

With regards to Serbia, let's face it, Serbs are simply not interested in sharing power with the Albanians or else they might have offered either a confederation arrangement or to allow Albanians to be represented in the Serbian parliament (which would mean up to 20% of the MP-s). I'm referring to the status talks they had before Ahtisaari put his foot down.

At the risk of sounding like a broken record, autonomy would have offered Serb nationalist politicians all the political gains they wanted without any of the costs and the Albanians would have been the losers. It would have simply meant that despite all the mayhem the Serbian forces caused in Kosovo, after all that loss of life, Kosovo Albanians would still answer to Serbia. I guess we all found out what the Albos thought of that.

As far as your vassal comments are concerned, well, small countries often do become dependent on the bigger ones when their existence is under threat. That's the way this world works. Serbia and Albania are no different.

To the Albanians and Greeks here who keep plotting scenarios of war over territory..please stop doing 'shrooms and start facing the reality. Greece and Albania are no Greece and Turkey. While there will always be nationalist bickering by some circles, let's face it, the borders are set and they're not moving.

Radoslav,

With all due respect, you don't get it! We Albanians want nothing to do with you Serbs. There is nothing you can say or do to change our minds. Thanks, but no thanks.

Ramanian: "Their grammar is 90% identical to that of Bulgarian but the vocabulary has tons of Serbian words unlike the "Macedonian" dialects"

The Macedonian vocabulary doesn't " just have" tons of Serbian words. They were systematically inserted to cut this region away from Bulgaria. Greece too participated in this cultural genocide! In 1920's there was a Greek sponsored "Macedonian" dictionary, written in Latin script. Well a new nationality was created. There are many such cases in history!

You people make me laugh. Every single comment on this article from a non Macedonian person, comes from a person who originates from a country which has NEVER IN ANY WAY SHAPE OR FORM ASSISTED MAKEDONIA!!! Yet you all come on here saying don't come to us when this happens or that happens. I have a lot of Serbian friends and love them dearly, but as a nation what has Serbia done for Macedonia. Our supposed Orthodox brothers don't even recognise our Orthodox church, instead they side with the athenians with who you all claim they have nothing in common. Macedonia will do what is best for herself. We have no allies in the Balkans, not one of our neighbours has "our" interests in mind, only there own.
So to be frank, we have survived thousands of years without you and will continue to do so!

@Ardian. I heard that you're the descendants from the Lyrian Pleiades star system. So I guess you would feel better at home there:)

Greeks, please keep underestimating Albanians, the next move you will see is Albanians taking over Greece and joining Chameria to motherland Albania. Greeks ,, you might be more powerful then Albanians,, but you are not more braver.

Ment - As far as i'm aware the Albanian delegation turned down all ideas outright except for independence, due mainly to the USA saying they would back Kosovo's independence.

If the Albanians in Serbia (i.e. including Kosovo) accepted 20% of parliament seats, a high degree of autonomy and some seats in government, then i'd for one think that would be a good idea.

"Further Albanian aggression, especially on and around the Greek border will certainly spur a Greek response."

Really? First, there is no Albanian aggression. Albania has not attacked anyone.

Second, who are you kidding? Turkey has 1 million soldiers right next to you ad you don't dare to start a war so let's not talk tough.

Romanian: "it would me more adequate to call the "Macedonian language" a Serbian dialect than a Bulgarian one. "

Adult Macedonians communicate freely with the Serbs because they lived in a Serbo-Croat enviromnent. Macedonian children who grew up after 1990 would find it easier to communicate in Sofia than in Belgrade.(that is why so many of them go to study there). Yet Macedonian today is a language of its own for all practical purposes, like Croat for instance! The creation of the new Macedonian nation worked because the uprooting of the Bulgarian culture was carried out ruthlessly in Royal Yugoslavia. Then came the inept attemt to unify Macedonia with Bulgaria during WWII. It started with a euphoria, but soon turned into a disapointment. After the war in Tito's Yugoslavia Macedonians had much better standard of living than the Bulgarians. But what really cemented the Macedonian identity is the name Macedonia. Alexander the Great is world famous, Macedonia is mentioned in the Bible! To the generations who grew up as Macedonians, there was no legitimate explanation to their nationality other than them beig (in no matter how small part) descendents of the Ancient Macedonians! So they build monuments of Alexander, wave the Vergina flags etc!
As for Bulgarian Macedonia, there was plan of Tito and Dimitrov Bulgaria to join Yugoslavia. "Pirin Macedonia" was to be handed to the Republic of Macedonia, while the "Western Borderlands" were to be handed from Serbia to Bulgaria. To prapare the ground the inhabitants of Prin Macedonia were forced to declare themselves Macedonians! There were even teachers brought from Yugoslavia to teach the children their "mother tongue". After a strong resistance and the break up between Tito and Stalin this policy was abandoned. Yet few people continued with the support of Yugoslavia, (later of Macedonia) to keep calling themselves Macedonians.
The citizens of republic of Macedonia with preserved Bulgarian consciousness (even former PM Ljubcho Georgievski) continue to be persecuted to this very day, or at least to be declaired "traitors"!

Romanian, your right I did marry a Serb and yes my children are only 1/4 Romanian. all of my friends are Serbs or Romanians from Serbia or are 50/50 like me. I have nothing against the Romanian country or the culture. But my dad was never a "Romanian" he always said he was Yugoslavian. Since that is gone he says he's Serbian now. He was born in Serbia so he's Serbian. LOL that was funny when he said that.

Hmmm. No comment from the Greek side. FYROMians speak a Bulgarian dialect. Their grammar is 90% identical to that of Bulgarian but the vocabulary has tons of Serbian words unlike the "Macedonian" dialects (read: Bulgarian dialects) from Bulgarian and Greek Macedonia. The Bulgarian dialects from Bulgarian Macedonia and the standard Bulgarian language share 95% of the vocabulary and 90-95% of the grammar. There are only a few words that are common to the Bulgarian dialects from Bulgarian Macedonia and the FYROMian language but are absent in standard Bulgarian or other Bulgarian dialects.
If we take into account the vocabulary then FYROMian can be considered as a Serbian dialect as well, since 85-90% of the words are similar in Serbian and FYROMian. This is why the Serbs will always like and care more about the fellow Slavs FYROMians than about the Greeks. Not long time ago Yugoslavia in which the Serbs were a majority tried to steal Aegean Macedonia from Greece, during the Greek civil war. Thus if I were Greek I would immediately stop supporting the Serbs against the Albanians. The Greeks and Albanians (together with the Bulgarians) have a common interest in disintegrating FYROM.
My advice to Greeks and Bulgarians: veto FYROM's accession to EU. Serbia will never join the EU with Kosovo inside because the countries that have recognized Kosovo's independence will veto its accession. Even if Serbia accepts Kosovo's independence (which is never going to happen) and wants to join the EU without Kosovo inside, Bulgaria should veto its accession (Greece should follow suit although one veto is enough).

Both Fyrom and Crna Gora will recognize Kosovo in short order-perhaps by the new year. Both entities realize that the opposition from the servile Serbian regime will only be cosmetic. Both realize if they fail to recognize Kosovo, the reaction from the Albanian gangster statelets will be fast and furious, and most importantly, fully backed by the western empire.

The only choice left for patriotic Serbs is to form a government in Exile-within the Russian Federation-this is the only honorable choice left for us-and it will happen within a couple of years. There are many governmnts in exile-including Tibet. Some of the smartest and bravest Serbs will join our dissident ranks. The only thing that remains unknown is the reaction of the Russian federation, but from what we have gathered so far, Russia will gleefully consent.

long live Serbia
long live Russia

JOIN US

Macedonians and Montenegreans are wise. They know that the likelihood of Kosovo being part of Serbia again is far LOWER than the likelihood of Serbia being disintegrated further in 3-4 other parts.

So Macedonia and Montenegro are doing a favour to Serbia, by recognising Kosovo, since this may slow down further disintegration of Serbia in the very near future.

To 'SerbExile'

I totally agree with you,because as far as we know from history your birth-place is from that region(russia) you are denizen in the Balkans.
Best wishes from Prishtina..

to Leonidas:
My point was that the Serbs and FYROMians have a lot more in common than the Serbs and Greeks. As far as I know the Serbs think the FYROMians are a kind of Serbs who speak a Torlakian (Serbian) dialect.
Don't try to blame Yugoslavia's attempt to steal Greek territory on Tito only. Although I am not familiar with Yugoslav politics I bet Tito ruled Yugoslavia with the help of many ethnic Serbs (I can't imagine Titio ruling Yugoslavia with Croats and Slovenes only). Those Serbs had no objection to what Tito was trying to do: steal Greek territory. On the contrary.
You have to realize that between Serbs and FYROMians there is a great friendship originated in the similarity of the two languages. The Serbs would chose FYROMians' friendship over Greeks' any time.
to Nikitas:
I know that the "Aegean Macedonia" is the real Macedonia but how do you expect me to call "Bulgarian Macedonia"? Bulgarian FYROM?
As for Kosovo's independence recognition not been linked to Serbia's EU accession:
Serbia will want to join EU with Kosovo inside. The EU member countries that have recognize Kosovo's independence won't agree to that since that means that they accept Serbia's old border and no longer recognize Kosovo's independence which can't happen. Once a country recognizes K's independece they can't change their mind afterwards and stop recognizing it.

Poor Prime Minister Nikola Gruevski!! He let himself bowed to US/EU bullying.

Your decision will bring shame to Macedonia

I wonder if Montenegro will follow suit immediately, or better I think there is apossibility that both Macedonia and Montenegro have coordinated between each other to declare the recognition at the same time. Will see what future will bring.

Zana Qerepi - Albanians are only a small minority in Montenegro. if they try to cause trouble there, they'll be looking at the four walls of a prison cell for many years.

PRN - you seem to have got yourself into a muddle my dear boy. It's Kosovo that's facing disintegration (assuming it doesn't stay within Serbia's borders), not Serbia. There is no strategic advantage to the Americans to break up Serbia any further. They have bondsteel in Kosovo now, so the Albo's in Presevo and Bujanovac just have to face upto the fact that they will forever live in Serbia. Kosovo is a different case. i'd chop it into two pieces, and i think that ultimately that's what will happen, Serbia taking a far larger chunk than the Albo's will be happy with.

Macedonia and Montenegro are going to recongize Kosova indepedence, guess who is next !!!!

Zoran, I had to double check my own coment, which is # 6, and was unable to find the words" Albanians are in minority in Montenegro". What prompted you to address me with something that I have not mentioned I don't know.
By the way, Montenegro will not recognize Kosovo just becasue of Albanians in Montenegro, but becasue of its foreghn policy that suits them.

"for the “sake of the country’s stability”...

well, if they think they will get away with that, just do it. :)

what will Gruevski do if there is a ruling in favor of Serbia? ...but who knows, whether he will still be in power...

that´s certainly not sovereign behaviour, if you are not forced to do something for the "stability of the country"...

don´t expect help from Serbia, if the albanian extremists try to grab your territory... but before that don´t expect help from the US. :)

Do it Macedonia, but remember - when your country begins to disintegrate look to Bulgaria and Albania for help. Actually when you do disintegrate, and you will, both those two will rejoice, as they can divide you between the two of them. Thus the end of your country, short-lived independce and all the other nice titles your western friends gave you.

One should have learned that statements and media reports this or that country WILL recognize Kosovo are worthless. There have been news that even Serbia will recognize Kosovo.
Let's keep the facts otherwise you'll repeat the same "news" several times.. like its beeing done here.

It's pretty clear that macedonia would eventually recognize. Not too smart for them. Not becuase they need srbija's support, but because like many posters on this site said, this will cause internal problems and potentially an end of its existence.

Its disgusting how politics work in the balkans. But the tides always turn.

A few greek posters on this site stated that srbija should change its recognition of macedonia and call it fyrom. I totally agree with this. If they recognize the udi of kosovo, then they should start getting used to losing support from the orthodox countries, and get used to going against 8 million albanians that do not want to live with them.

Romanian,

You still make no point due to your lack of knowledge on SFRJ as you admitted yourself. Your assumptions cannot be taken for the fact since you seem to have some personal issues with Serbia instead of having more objective and non biased stand. With such attitude you won’t be ever able handle the facts in regard to Serbia and its policy. Forgive me to say, but your statement that Serbia was trying to steal Aegean Macedonia from Greece, is rather bizarre.

I don’t blame you for having your opinion but please, try not to base the opinion after your assumption which is unfortunately based on your personal issue that you have with Serbia (believe to be Vlach’s status within Serbia) and thus far just continuous wish to insult Serbia.

Just for the record I want to state that me Nikitas and Leonidas are 2 totally different persons and I am sure B92 can verify this anytime. I am just stating this since our posts are of the same mentality and I dont want anyone to start talking nonsense about us.

@Romanian.
"how do you expect me to call "Bulgarian Macedonia"?"
There is no such thing, so you dont need to call it in any way. You can just say "Bulgaria".

"The Serbs would chose FYROMians' friendship over Greeks' any time."
Definately. They have more relations between them than with us, I totally agree.

"As for Kosovo's independence recognition not been linked to Serbia's EU accession"
You can examine the Cyprus issue about this.
Free Cyprus entered, the occupied part stayed out, Cyprus is trying to solve the occupation problem and it looks like they might make it.

"Once a country recognizes K's independece they can't change their mind afterwards and stop recognizing it."
They can. ICJ might help with this.

"I bet Tito ruled Yugoslavia with the help of many ethnic Serbs (I can't imagine Titio ruling Yugoslavia with Croats and Slovenes only). Those Serbs had no objection"
Again. A few pepole in a closed communist regime, do not represent the will of the oppressed people.

"for the sake of the country's stability." That comment speaks volumes to all concerned.

Macedonia is being threatened by peace loving albanian neighbors and citizens. Like South Ossetia and Georgia, these "orders" have been and continue to receive green light approval by that defunct institution that used to be call The State Department. As with the recent recognition by some island nation of 500 in the Pacific, the west continues down the path of strong arm recognition tactics against these absolutely defenseless nations.

To Romanian
The absence of comments of Greek posters is probably due to the fact that the article is not connected with any developments that affect Greece directly.
Whereas i agree with your description of the Fyromian language as being a Bulgarian dialect that includes Croatian & Serbian vocabulary i will take issue with your conclusion about Serbian actions against Greece.
I,for one,do not identify the actions of Tito's old Yugoslavia against Greece as being the actions of Serbia.
Serbia was only one of the six republics that made up old Yugoslavia.
Secondly,the only reason as to why Serbia recognised Fyrom with its constitutional name is based on the fact that both people lived together for some considerable time and this is how they know them.
Thirdly, we'll continue to support UN resolutions that provide for the territorial integrity of sovereign nations.
Finally, as far as Greece's veto on Fyrom's accession to EU is concerned,there is a political consensous in Greece that Gruevski &co will not be allowed the EU door unless the name issue is resolved.And this is the only issue between the two countries as far as Greece is concerned.Furthermore,we do not wish the disintegration of Fyrom which
obviously will not be a peaceful one.We'd rather see a prosperous nation on our borders that will develop friendly relations with all its neighbours.

Zana Qerepi - I didn't say that you said that in comment 6. my point is that Macedonia has such a large Albanian minority that the mere threat of secession is enough to force the Macedonian government to recognise Kosovo (if that report is correct), whereas Montenegro doesn't face the same problem. It has a large "Serb" minority so my guess would be that they'll wait to see if Serbia get's the opportunity to approach the ICJ for a ruling. If Serbia does get the opportunity for an ICJ ruling, the number of countries which will recognise Kosovo from here onwards will just about come to a halt as most countries will wait to here on the ruling.

I'm getting ahead of myself here. first let's see if Serbia gets it's wish.

#10 Romanian
"Hmmm. No comment from the Greek side."
Why should we intervene? If the fyromian Slavs want to keep their country in one part (for the moment) they will recognise the UDI. If they want to disintegrate, they will not recognise it. I dont know what this has to do with us. We dont want wish this Slavic country to disolve. Nor it favors us if you know how to think wider.

"from Bulgarian and Greek Macedonia."
Dont make such mistakes please. There is no Bulgarian, Greek, Slavic, Japanese Makedonia. There is only one and it is in Greece already exept of a small 7-10% that is occupied by fyrom. The original boundaries of Makedonia are within Greece.

"the Serbs were a majority tried to steal Aegean Macedonia from Greece, during the Greek civil war. Thus if I were Greek I would immediately stop supporting the Serbs against the Albanians."
The doings of the leaders do not always reflect the feelings of the people. Stalin and Tito had nothing to do with the will of people but with the world domination. So what you said is not a good excuse for me to stop supporting what is right.

"The Greeks and Albanians (together with the Bulgarians) have a common interest in disintegrating FYROM."
No. The contrary. We Greeks want that Slavic country to exist actually. Think wider.

"Serbia will never join the EU with Kosovo inside because the countries that have recognized Kosovo's independence will veto its accession."
Irrelevant argument. There is no conenction between those 2. Kosovo UDI isnt and never was a condition for Serbia to enter EU.

@7 ardian
"as far as we know from history your birth-place is from that region(russia) you are denizen in the Balkans."
Yours too.

@all
Funny thing is that noone mentions the blackmailing of the albanians inside fyrom, you know the ones that are forming a new party to put pressure on fyromian goverment to recognise Kosovo UDI. It only shows that those people do not feel at all citizens of fyrom rather than pure albanians, which is of course understandable. But still it also shows that those people will not support their own "country" (fyrom), no loyalty at all, even when their own "country" faces dire situations, inside and out. But it was always like this with some people, we just have to learn to tolerate them.

I don't think there was any doubt about this. Albanians in Macedonia have been pushing for recognition since February 17, and have been nothing but a source of headache to officials in Skopje. Recognition doesn't mean Macedonia actually agrees with independence. Rather, it's a safety valve to relieve pressure.

However, like Samoa's recognition yesterday, and the very likelihood of additional one or two recognitions in the next few weeks, none of this will actually improve conditions IN Kosovo. The north will still look to Serbia Proper. The SPC will still be a virtual independent unit. Pristina will still be taking marching orders from Washington and Brussels. Corruption will still be a perennial way of life. Economics will still be rudimentary and in the hands of a small elite circle who are backed for their political stances by the West. The recognitions now are little more than symbolic. Even if Kosovo was only recognized by Albania, the US, Germany, and England, it would be exactly where it is today. Conversely, even if Thaci's fictitious list of "100 nations" recognized, Kosovo would STILL be where it is today. Bosnia is an internationally recognized country, supported by international organizations, and led by a High Representative, and yet it is one of the most fragmented and corrupt countries in Europe, and this is exactly where I see Kosovo's future. Recognitions mean nothing at this point other than to score bragging rights by Albanian diaspora nationalists.

then they should start getting used to losing support from the orthodox countries, and get used to going against 8 million albanians that do not want to live with them.
(American International Group, 17 September 2008 17:07)

Why I don't see nothing international and peac loving in this post???

Here we go again with the Albainian threats. If Macedonia doesn't recognize Kosovo there will be "instability". PRN, you realy think that your day dreaming will come true. exlpain to me you hypothosis of Serbia breaking up even more. Romanian, WHAT!?! I'm half Romanian and half Serbian with my family comeing from Banat, Serbia and I never heard of Romanians from Serbia think that way. Unless your from Romania. That might explain it. I know here in Metro Detroit the Romanians from Serbia And the Romanians from Romania don't get along that well.Besides the only thing that I know about romanian culture is the church and the language. Other than that I was raised as a Yugo/Serb. Zivele Srbija! Also I feel that Serbs Value the Greeks over the Macedonians. What has Macedonia offered to Serbia over Kosovo, not support as the Greeks do. I have nothing against Macedonians and never will. And I know that most Macedonians support Serbia. It's the Macedonian gov. that is scared of the Albanian threats if the don't recognize the UDI. Hell they saw what the Albanians did in Kosovo and are sill doing.

This "article" is completely false; no such things are happening in MACEDONIA, nor will MACEDONIA recognise Kosovo anytime soon!!

There is in fact a changing of the political guard in the Albanian bloc in MACEDONIA with the departure of former Health Minister Imer Selmani from the moribund DPA.

Selmani is one of the new cadre of younger politicians in Macedonia, whose new political party, Nova Democratija, is rumoured to replace the DUI in government in the future. Selmani is that rarity in the Balkans, an Albanian politician with a platform. His public statements include dialogue and "sozivot" between the Albanian and MACEDONIAN people. He has already been proclaimed as a traitor to the Albanian people by his former leader, the dour anti charismatic Taci! He is also the only Albanian politician popular among MACEDONIANS!

Too, there is a potential changing of the guard in the DUI, as the younger intellectual wing is at odds with the older ANA members! All of these issues are good for MACEDONIA! So dream on dushmani; your efforts will be your own undoing!

Leonidas, get it straight this time: Nobody blackmailed Macedonia! Its more a logical thing! The Albanian side gives Gruevski a deadline to recog. UDI and if not they will break the coalition and abandon the parliament - what do youthink the consequences would be when 30% of its population is not being represented?!Albanians are not a threat to Macedonia, Greece is since it calles her by a name of a dead country!
@ Mike: If KOsovo didnt try to fight back against serbia and didnt declare independence, what do you think, what would kosovo be now? a paradise? Pls enlighten me!

@ Nikitas,

what is the wider picture with FYROM dissintegration?

for Greece - the name problem is gone.

Well, if any such unrest does indeed occur, then I expect the Albanian government and the US government to make it clear to those Macedonian Albanians that do make trouble that their behaviour will not be tolerated. Period.

I'm getting sick of ethnic Albanian parties in Macedonia playing the secession card every time a difficult political issue is raised. Somebody needs to remind these so-called leaders/analysts that blackmailing and backstabing not only reflect badly on Macedonian Albanians but also on the rest of Albanians elsewhere. It breeds suspicion among all our neighbours that we still have designs for a "Greater Albania", which I for one, don't give a damn about. This also provides ammunition for nationalist psychopaths of all stripes to pursue destructive/divisive policies that only hold our countries back and further ruin our already lousy reputations with the rest of the world.

Like it or not, Macedonia is what it is now and the Albanians there had better start treating that country as their adopted motherland and work with their fellow Slavic compatriots to improve Macedonia. Instead of building resentment, how about building trust instead?

As far as I am concerned, I would much rather have wealthy, healthy Albanians living in 6 Balkan countries, than one "Greater Albania" distrusted and hated by its neighbors.
"Greater Albania", "Greater Serbia", "Greater Macedonia", "Greater Greece" ideologies, all belong in the dust bin.

Unless Skopje recognizes Kosovo, ethnic Albanian analysts say, South Ossetia-style "unrest" is possible.
--
Hey look, it's true! Albanians lobbying other countries to recognise Kosovo Albanian style. It's too bad they are not allowed to bring guns into the UN otherwise they might just get all members to recognise Kosovo.

"Further Albanian aggression, especially on and around the Greek border will certainly spur a Greek response."

Really? First, there is no Albanian aggression. Albania has not attacked anyone.

Second, who are you kidding? Turkey has 1 million soldiers right next to you ad you don't dare to start a war so let's not talk tough.

to nik: Are you a Bulgarian from Serbia?
I know that Serb word were inserted into the " Macedonian" dialect in order to make it more distant from standard Bularian. That dialect already had a sizable Serbian influence even before that. Anyway given that today Serbs and FYROMians can understand one another without any dictionary it would me more adequate to call the "Macedonian language" a Serbian dialect than a Bulgarian one. "Macedonian" dialects of Bulgaria are however pure Bulgarian dialects since both their grammar and their vocabulary are almost identical to that of standard Bulgarian.
to dimitar: That German doesn't know a thing about Macedonian history. How can he claim that Macedonia was never part of Greece? Macedonia was part of the Byzantine Empire which was a Greek statehood! He is probably anti-Greek, anti-Bulgarian and pro-FYROMian due to the fact that both Greeks and Bulgarians are pro-Russian and the German hate Russia a lot for dividing their country into Federal and Democratic Germanies after world war 2.
to nikitas: I was referring to what is commonly known as "Bulgarian Macedonia" or "Pirin Macedonia" a territory that used to be inhabited by Thracians in antiquity. If I call that territory Bulgaria as you recommend nobody will know what part of Bulgaria I mean. I think it is better to keep calling it Bulgarian Macedonia and the few Bulgarian villages in Albania-Albanian Macedonia.
to bmrusila:
I never said Serbia tried to steal Aegean Macedonia. I said Yugoslavia populated mainly by Serbs tried to steal it.
I am sure ordinary Serbs would have agreed to trying to steal Aegean Macedonia from Greece. I bet if they had been asked: "Do you want our country Yugoslavia to get bigger by incorporating a part of Greece where a few fellow Slavs live?" 95% would have agreed. So don't tell me that I am not making a point.
By the way, for your information there are no "Vlachs" in Serbia. They are all Romanians whether you like it or not and whether some of them call themselves Vlachs or not. I am sure you know that Vlashko was the name the Serbs and Bulgarians gave Wallachia and "vlah" is an obsolete name for Rumun (Romanian). I said this once on this forum and I am saying it again: I visited Serbia a few weeks ago and I met Romanians from the villages near Majdanpek. When I asked them if they were Romanian they said yes. They didn't say they were "Vlachs".
to delje: You are a half Serb half Romanian. You will probably marry a Serb or already did that and your children will only be a quarter Romanian. You are lost for the Romanian nation unfortunately. Look on the bright side of things: the same happens to the Serbs in Romanian Banat who are getting less and less as each year passes.

Leonidas, get it straight this time: Nobody blackmailed Macedonia! Its more a logical thing! The Albanian side gives Gruevski a deadline to recog. UDI and if not they will break the coalition and abandon the parliament - what do youthink the consequences would be when 30% of its population is not being represented?!Albanians are not a threat to Macedonia, Greece is since it calles her by a name of a dead country!
(braveheart22, 17 September 2008 20:45)

Have you read my comments?You confuse me with someone else.

Gruevski & Djukanovic dammed if they do recognise and dammed if they don't. What fool stated that Kosovo's independence would bring stability to the Balkans ?

Greeks, please keep underestimating Albanians, the next move you will see is Albanians taking over Greece and joining Chameria to motherland Albania. Greeks ,, you might be more powerful then Albanians,, but you are not more braver.

Jovan

When I listed 6 Balkan countries, I meant

1. Albania,
2. Kosovo,
3. Montenegro,
4. Macedonia
5. Serbia
6. Greece

In both Macedonia and Montenegro, Albanians share power with their fellow Slavic citizens and that's why I'm disappointed at the arm-twisting tactics that their parties in Macedonia are using.

With regards to Serbia, let's face it, Serbs are simply not interested in sharing power with the Albanians or else they might have offered either a confederation arrangement or to allow Albanians to be represented in the Serbian parliament (which would mean up to 20% of the MP-s). I'm referring to the status talks they had before Ahtisaari put his foot down.

At the risk of sounding like a broken record, autonomy would have offered Serb nationalist politicians all the political gains they wanted without any of the costs and the Albanians would have been the losers. It would have simply meant that despite all the mayhem the Serbian forces caused in Kosovo, after all that loss of life, Kosovo Albanians would still answer to Serbia. I guess we all found out what the Albos thought of that.

As far as your vassal comments are concerned, well, small countries often do become dependent on the bigger ones when their existence is under threat. That's the way this world works. Serbia and Albania are no different.

To the Albanians and Greeks here who keep plotting scenarios of war over territory..please stop doing 'shrooms and start facing the reality. Greece and Albania are no Greece and Turkey. While there will always be nationalist bickering by some circles, let's face it, the borders are set and they're not moving.

Ment - As far as i'm aware the Albanian delegation turned down all ideas outright except for independence, due mainly to the USA saying they would back Kosovo's independence.

If the Albanians in Serbia (i.e. including Kosovo) accepted 20% of parliament seats, a high degree of autonomy and some seats in government, then i'd for one think that would be a good idea.

dear Ment, if you meant if that way, you´re wrong of course.

there is no "kosova" as you certainly know... only an illusion created to calm the Albanians and to install foreign power into the balkan peninsula...

but on one point I agree with you, the borders are set, indeed. and they won´t be moved. UNSC 1244 is cementing it.

as for the nationalist bickering, isn´t it interesting that your fellow k-albanian friends are the ones sending out threats here? ...they are nervous, it seems.

and with reason.

Romanian, your right I did marry a Serb and yes my children are only 1/4 Romanian. all of my friends are Serbs or Romanians from Serbia or are 50/50 like me. I have nothing against the Romanian country or the culture. But my dad was never a "Romanian" he always said he was Yugoslavian. Since that is gone he says he's Serbian now. He was born in Serbia so he's Serbian. LOL that was funny when he said that.

Ramanian: "Their grammar is 90% identical to that of Bulgarian but the vocabulary has tons of Serbian words unlike the "Macedonian" dialects"

The Macedonian vocabulary doesn't " just have" tons of Serbian words. They were systematically inserted to cut this region away from Bulgaria. Greece too participated in this cultural genocide! In 1920's there was a Greek sponsored "Macedonian" dictionary, written in Latin script. Well a new nationality was created. There are many such cases in history!

Hans Lothar Scheppan, German ambassador to MACEDONIA from 1992-95, in his book (sourced from the German Foreign Ministry dossier on MACEDONIA),"The Macedonian
Knot" writes, quote;

"In the Balkan Wars of 1912/13, MACEDONIA's neighbors annexed MACEDONIAN territory, now they are attepting to annex the MACEDONIAN identity. Greece would like to change MACEDONIA's name, even though before the Balkan Wars, Greece had never occupied MACEDONIAN territory. Neither in the Antique Period, the millenia after Christ's birth, the Ottoman period etc. Only with the help of the Entente were they able to forcibly take and occupy MACEDONIAN territory. Today they would annex the identity, while Bulgaria is trying to annex the language."
end quote.

This is one of countless historical accounts,read FACTS you might avail yourself of, before you spread your silly propaganda!

Leonidas has it 100% right. Greece and Greeks do not wish to see the break up on FYROM, in fact, we wish to see it become a stable and prosperous country where its people can live peaceful lives. Our objection is solely based on the fact that they want to use the term "Macedonian" in their name. The break-up of what is today FYROM would pose a sizable problem for Greece; it would lead to increased instability on its borders and it would force Greece into intense diplomatic action and possibly military action against separtist forces on its border.

One might suspect that the Greek government and Greek people are naive and far removed from the violence of the Balkans, but we realize that if the Albanians continue their aggressive separatism and complete disregard of established borders, then we will be forced to act. Greece is the only actor in the Balkans militarily, financially, politically, and diplomatically equipped to put a stop to the instabiity. For much of the 1990s we stood by and provided only moral and humanitarian support to Serbia. Further Albanian aggression, especially on and around the Greek border will certainly spur a Greek response.

The FYROM issue is one that will be solved within the near future. For better or worse (probably worse at least in the Greek view), the FYROMians will be allowed to use a compound name like "Upper" or "Northern" Macedonia in exchange for Greece's recognition of their ethnicity and language. Once that is settled, the Greeks will have a vested interest in keeping FYROM stable and safe, and I am certain it will take a pro-active role in securing those interests.

From Athina.

You people make me laugh. Every single comment on this article from a non Macedonian person, comes from a person who originates from a country which has NEVER IN ANY WAY SHAPE OR FORM ASSISTED MAKEDONIA!!! Yet you all come on here saying don't come to us when this happens or that happens. I have a lot of Serbian friends and love them dearly, but as a nation what has Serbia done for Macedonia. Our supposed Orthodox brothers don't even recognise our Orthodox church, instead they side with the athenians with who you all claim they have nothing in common. Macedonia will do what is best for herself. We have no allies in the Balkans, not one of our neighbours has "our" interests in mind, only there own.
So to be frank, we have survived thousands of years without you and will continue to do so!

Romanian, your attempt to put a wedge between Serbian and Greek brothers is not working.
Greeks are not stupid and will not fall for your cheap tricks.
Greeks and Serbs are very aware that the Serbs were the ones who were oppressed under Tito who even denied Serbs the right to return to Kosovo after WW2 in order to create an inbalance of ethnic mix.

It was Tito who settled the Muslims and Croats in Serb areas but never the other way around. He was a dictator and Serbs were his victims. The few traitors who were Serbs did not represent the will of the Serbian people but rather their own ambitions.

Divide and conquer is a way of your masters, the Americans. I say your masters as you are clearly not Orthodox Romanian but either Catholic or even or Albanian decent. If you were Orthodox you would not speak against the Serbs or try to divide the Orthodox people.

"Hey look, it's true! Albanians lobbying other countries to recognise Kosovo Albanian style. It's too bad they are not allowed to bring guns into the UN otherwise they might just get all members to recognise Kosovo.
(ZK UK, 17 September 2008 23:50)"

I am starting to think that this ZK UK is someone from the B92 staff. Whenever there is no debate here, HE comes in and everything is a mess afterwards!

You mentioned guns, but you shouldn't man, cz you, the Serbians, know it better than anyone else in the world that conflicts and problems do not get solved by guns. Starting from the your most recent weaponry use in Kosova, going back to Bosnia, Croatia and Slovenia, what has Serbia benefited here? NOTHING! And what about these aforementioned countries, EVERYTHING! Now all of these countries I mentioned above are independent, but not only. Slovenia's avarege monthly salary is around 1.300 Euros (what about in Serbia?), not to mention Croatia, who's coastline is getting more and more attractive for the foreigners (and Serbia?)! Bosnia still got issues, but hey, it's free of Serbia! And the last (but maybe not least) Kosova. It's independent, free of Serbia's genocide, and heading to the EU! And where does Serbia stand now? In the middle of a economic disaster!

I just wanted let you know that guns are not problem-solvers, but problem-makers! If you point a gun at me, you are not solving your problems, cz if you kill me, you are the one who's gonna have to deal with the consequences.

And to all of you, YES, Macedonia will recognize Kosova, whether you like it or not, but it's not that the recognition is gonna solve our problems, but your country is gonna have to pay another ticket back home for the Serbian ambassador in Macedonia! And guess who's money are they spending - YOURS!

It's the moment of truth guys.

Greets from Prishtina!

@ment:
I agree to you, I´d rather like to see the Albanians integrated and in prosperity although living in six different countries, there is no doubt that I am on your side with that, BUT as we can see at the moment ( unfortunately ) the Albanians are doing all they can to become the pariah of the next generation. you´ll be hated if you go on with that...and certainly not only by the Serbs.

and the balances will shift, that´s something you can count on.

Serbia will not desist from their southern province, and if you are a smart guy, you know that.

so, whatever happens, the Albanians of today will be held responsible for it.

and by being submissive to the Americans, you are just choosing the wrong card...

but after all, that is your own choice...

what is so sad about it, you do not ( not you as an individual, I mean all of the seperatists ) realize that the USofA are only supporting the Albanians to maintain control in Europe by keeping tensions on a certain level so that they can keep up their justification for camp bondsteel and their mere presence in the region at all.

so, the Albanians are being duped, and they simply do not get it. not yet.

but they will. I am convinced of it. let´s all hope the differences will be settled peacefully, like the new Serbia is just proving to do...

it´s up to you...whether you will mess it all up, or whether you will emancipate yourself from foreign yoke and become an autonomous province within Serbia, what you actually are, or stay a vassal...

it´s up to you...

good night.

@26 Doni
"for Greece - the name problem is gone."
What name problem is gone?
The fyromian Slavs are not respecting any kind of mediation. They stick to their own extremist and irredentist agenda. Great. The name is still there and it will be the obstacle for them to grow. No EU, no Nato, no country.
And I am saying again, WE Greeks dont want that, we want them to exist if they like to exist. Ifyou cant see the wider picture in this case, sorry, i cant put it in your head.

@Dimitar.
you obviously confuse opinions with facts. You know, one man's judgement is not historical proof, even if it was written before 16 years, which for you is ancient history (it goes back to the creation of your Slavic country), but for us Makedonians is just yesterday since we, as Greeks, go 4000 back.
But ts ok. I really feel for you a lot of sympathy. I wish I could help all misguided people like you and show them the light :)

"Unless Skopje recognizes Kosovo, ethnic Albanian analysts say, South Ossetia-style "unrest" is possible."

Kosovo is the precedent for Ossetia. And now even the Albanians themselves (in Macedonia) are seeing Ossetia as a precedent for themselves ..... coming full circle are we?

And the West were boasting that Kosovo can never become any precedent! I am reminded yet again of the proverbial osterich with its head stuck in the sand!

@Ardian. I heard that you're the descendants from the Lyrian Pleiades star system. So I guess you would feel better at home there:)

Romanian: "it would me more adequate to call the "Macedonian language" a Serbian dialect than a Bulgarian one. "

Adult Macedonians communicate freely with the Serbs because they lived in a Serbo-Croat enviromnent. Macedonian children who grew up after 1990 would find it easier to communicate in Sofia than in Belgrade.(that is why so many of them go to study there). Yet Macedonian today is a language of its own for all practical purposes, like Croat for instance! The creation of the new Macedonian nation worked because the uprooting of the Bulgarian culture was carried out ruthlessly in Royal Yugoslavia. Then came the inept attemt to unify Macedonia with Bulgaria during WWII. It started with a euphoria, but soon turned into a disapointment. After the war in Tito's Yugoslavia Macedonians had much better standard of living than the Bulgarians. But what really cemented the Macedonian identity is the name Macedonia. Alexander the Great is world famous, Macedonia is mentioned in the Bible! To the generations who grew up as Macedonians, there was no legitimate explanation to their nationality other than them beig (in no matter how small part) descendents of the Ancient Macedonians! So they build monuments of Alexander, wave the Vergina flags etc!
As for Bulgarian Macedonia, there was plan of Tito and Dimitrov Bulgaria to join Yugoslavia. "Pirin Macedonia" was to be handed to the Republic of Macedonia, while the "Western Borderlands" were to be handed from Serbia to Bulgaria. To prapare the ground the inhabitants of Prin Macedonia were forced to declare themselves Macedonians! There were even teachers brought from Yugoslavia to teach the children their "mother tongue". After a strong resistance and the break up between Tito and Stalin this policy was abandoned. Yet few people continued with the support of Yugoslavia, (later of Macedonia) to keep calling themselves Macedonians.
The citizens of republic of Macedonia with preserved Bulgarian consciousness (even former PM Ljubcho Georgievski) continue to be persecuted to this very day, or at least to be declaired "traitors"!

Radoslav,

With all due respect, you don't get it! We Albanians want nothing to do with you Serbs. There is nothing you can say or do to change our minds. Thanks, but no thanks.