Wednesday, 10.09.2008.
10:52
U.S. Ambassador to Serbia Cameron Munter reiterated U.S. opposition to Serbia’s initiative before the General Assembly.
Izvor: Blic
IMAGE SOURCE
pre 15 godina
Danilo in Vancouver:
Agree with all you've said save this:
> Nothing practical will ever come of it.
Wrote this in July:
> As to the 'effectiveness' of a ruling against the UDI, while a US veto ensures against UN intervention, veto does not negate negative impact of such with regard to future recognition from currently uncommitted nations.
Still think it applies only more so given the russian intervention in Georgia.
pre 15 godina
THE PEOPLE OF SERBIA WANT WHAT WAS TAKEN FROM THEM BY THE USA KOSOVO!!!!!!!!!
pre 15 godina
The Costa Rican Ambassador is a worthy representative of the small nations of the world - he also spoke up against Russia's invasion of Georgia on the basis that the only hope small countries have for freedom from interference by large countries is international law.
Personally, I think the best outcome would be for the General Assembly to vote to send it to the ICJ, and for the ICJ to state that it has no jurisdiction in the case, since it is a political rather than a legal question. We'll soon see, in any case.
pre 15 godina
Serbia has every right for the ICJ to check into the legality of Kosovo's declared independence. Is the USA embarrassed by this?
pre 15 godina
[quote]once the ICJ nulify the kosovo UDI.[/quote]
While I support Serbia's ICJ initiative for it's symbolic value, it's sad to see people's false hopes and basically misunderstandings about what the ICJ is and what its mandate is.
The ICJ has no power to "nullify" anything.
Actually, I could have put a period after "power" in the last sentence and left it at that.
Let me try to explain it as best I understand it.
The ICJ is an advisory body of the UN General Assembly – another powerless body.
The UN General Assembly members can vote to place a question or matter before the ICJ. This is what Serbia is endeavouring at the present moment – to place on the agenda of the UNGA to vote on the matter to send the question of Kosovo’s UDI to the ICJ.
The ICJ then comes up with a position on the matter. Likely, the ICJ will rule in Serbia’s favour.
The ICJ then returns its position to the UNGA.
The UNGA can the, based on the position of the ICJ, state a position on the matter.
The UNGA can then table the motion before the UN Security Council (the only organ of the UN that has any ability to actually do anything).
The UNSC will then do nothing. Never. The USA, the main sponsor of Kosovo’s UDI will veto any attempt to even bring the issue up.
In short – the ICJ will rule in Serbia’s favour. Nothing practical will ever come of it.
So please, I say this because I love Serbia and want Serbia to succeed, don’t take this as some sort of attack. It simply pains me to see people living in some kind of fantasy world thinking that the ICJ can “nullify” anything.
Respectfully, Danilo
pre 15 godina
While at ICJ the Serbia should seek War Crime charges against Holbrooke for targeting civilians in the NATO bombings. Perhaps all the millions he is making in consulting fees from Saudis as a reward for Kosovo ought to be distributed as compensation to Kosovo Serb victims.
pre 15 godina
It is hard to believe ! Outrageous behaviour of this mr.USA! How can he even dare to push Serbia to withdraw the legal request? USA is an outlaw.What a shame,,,I hope Serbia will expell this ambasador home to his «freedom» land.Let Serbia accept any help from outside but never to let the americans to step even in that land,after bombing 78 days civilian infrastrucrure,robed the state's heart and now they offer a cookie for not seeking the justice! I have no words! So frustrating.Now there is no doubt the USA became the world's gangster.
pre 15 godina
Just a week ago Inner City Press reported that the US had not yet decided how they would vote on the Serb resolution. Has this changed?
See:
http://www.innercitypress.com/icj1serbia090508.html
pre 15 godina
He said that American and other foreign investors would come to Serbia only if it continued its road towards the EU and achieved stability.
So we need to work on achieving stability while our Albanians friends are threatening with wars and instability if they don't get evrything they want and, I'm not sure if Kosovo is all they wanted they might come to Nis now saying that its rightfully theirs because Nish means One in Albanian.
pre 15 godina
Alban,
You and other Albanians who post here should first of all stick to the subject of the article you are commenting on (B92 can also act as a filter in this respect and should take some responsibility). Your link brings us to books about rape and rape victims. Very sad and serious subjects that apparently deserve more attention than they get and are unfortunately a problem in all societies. However, that is not the subject that is being discussed here (it was about comments made by Munter on the ICJ case by Serbia against the illegal UDI). I do not care that Sells is part Serb (what is (are) the other part(s)?) and that he did not like the socialist party policies of the 1990's. He may view himself more Muslim than part Serb. I did not see any statistics so why did you refer to this? If this was such a real issues your US masters would have tried to use it in their anti-Serbia campaigns, but they did not (maybe for some senseable reason). By the way, I do not believe any Western political statistics for it is always presented without prove (which makes it more propaganda). Grow up and take part in constructive and mature discussions or else spare us you immature comments and post them on Albanian sites.
pre 15 godina
Munter's comments only underscore the complete disdain that the U.S. establishment holds for any form of legal system in which it does not pick all of the judges.
There could also be no greater contrast than the one between Munter, who enthusiastically undermines Serbian national rights and talks down to the entire nation, and former Canadian ambassador James Bissett who had the courage to oppose his own government and testify in defense of President Slobodan Milosevic as well as actively defending Serbia's rights to Kosovo. Bissett deserves a medal from Serbia, Munter should be sent home.
Obviously, this issue is a Catch-22 situation for the U.S. If Serbia wins at the ICJ, the U.S. theft of Kosovo fails instantly. If Serbia fails at the ICJ, it will nevertheless continue to seek to return Serbs to Kosovo by other means, while a legal precedent will be set for the detatching of various pro-Russian enclaves from countries bordering Russia as well as for the eventual separation of majority Hispanic areas from the U.S. southwest. The U.S. loses either way.
The most interesting question now is whether the ICJ legal challenge is the last measure that will be pursued by Jeremic or the opening of a new round of much more practical efforts. If the appeal to the court is not followed up by other actions, Jeremic would effectively be shelving the issue for a number of years (awaiting a ruling), allowing the Albanian terror leadership to consolidate their regime in Kosovo.
To be effective, any Serbian initiative at the ICJ must be followed up by a continuing expansion of the official Serbian government presence in Kosovo, including the opening of government offices, and a large scale financial and political investment in returning Serbian people to the region, led by members of the government themselves.
The clock is ticking down until we finally see whether Jeremic will match his words about Kosovo with support for real action on the ground aimed at first securing and then expanding the Serbian presence in Serbia's Kosovo province.
We should all watch closely.
John Bosnitch
john.b@imcnews.com
pre 15 godina
"And for those that think that US is nervous about Serbia's initiative, ask yourself this question: "Is really the elephant afraid of the mouse?"
(miri, 10 September 2008 15:20) "
But miri!!! the elephant is supposed to be afraid of the mouse according to folklore!
Go to any search engine and check this out! Do visit this linke too! http://www.sciencesurvivalblog.com/wp-content/uploads/2008/06/elephant_mouse.jpg
(I'm chuckling as I write)
pre 15 godina
Milos,
how about these other researchers: http://books.google.com/books?um=1&q=rapes+kosovo+sanu+church+serbs
Are they all lying? Sells is part Serb by the way. The fact that he doesn't like what happened in 1990's doesn't make him less of a Serb. Statistics are statistics. Rape and crime was lower in Kosovo /a that in Serbia.
pre 15 godina
Avi@4. Serbia can look to the future and have prosperity without giving up on Kosovo. Why do you think Serbia needs to give Kosovo away to have that?
A bully telling the victim to give his lunch money to him if he wants to avoid his face being bashed in.
You can't have both. A face and your money. If the victim stands up to the bully he certainly can.
Serbia should not be afraid of the bully. They got one shot in (bombing of Serbia) but they will not get another. Serbia has powerful friends now.
pre 15 godina
Alban #22,
Please check out the following link to see that Michael Sells probably has a personal and professional problem with the (Serbian) Orthodox Church considering his love for and interest in Islam.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Michael_Sells
In the 1999 article from the link you provided Kosovo is written as Kosova, indicating that may have been paid by Albanian terrorists/KLA to write this (especially since it is also pro-NATO).
pre 15 godina
Y milosevic revoked "autonomy?"
Why did he attack Slovenia, Croatia, Bosnia and Kosovo?
http://www.ess.uwe.ac.uk/Kosovo/Kosovo-Current_News233.htm
"These new allegations against NATO are ominously similar to Serb nationalists' charges in 1986 that Kosovar Albanians were destroying the monasteries. This charge was combined with other inflammatory allegations that Kosovar Albanians were illegal immigrants who should be expelled; that Albanians were using their high birth rate as a tool to commit" demographic genocide" against Kosova's Serb minority; and that they were carrying out widespread rapes of Serb women. In 1986, Serbian Orthodox bishops repeated these allegations and charged that genocide was being carried out against Serbs in Kosova. The same charges were repeated in the famous "Memorandum" written by Serbian intellectuals attacking the Yugoslav constitution and the autonomy of Kosova. In this inflamed environment, Slobodan Milosevic made his leap to power by promising he would protect the Serb people and their shrines against their enemies.
What was the truth of these frightening allegations? There were genuine grievances by both Serbs and Albanians in Kosova, and both groups felt threatened. But Serb independent journalists and human rights workers found the more inflammatory charges to be total fabrications. A study of police records in Kosova showed only one rape of an ethnic Serb by an Albanian in an entire year. Similarly, the alleged destruction of Serb shrines turned out to involve isolated cases of vandalism, graffiti, and cutting of trees on church property -- hate crimes, perhaps, but surely not the organized, genocidal annihilation that was claimed."
pre 15 godina
Miri #14 "Kosova's status is an issue invented by Milosevic. Before its autonomy was revoked, Kosova enjoyed practically all the rights of other Yugoslav republics as a constintuent part of that federation. Now you are saying that just because Milosevic decided otherwise(and the majority of Serbs surely suported him), Serbia today has the right to cry about int. law."
"Starting in 1982 and 1983, in response to nationalist Albanian riots in Kosovo, the Central Committee of the SFRY League of Communists adopted a set of conclusions aimed at centralizing Serbia’s control over law enforcement and the judiciary in its Kosovo and Vojvodina provinces.
In 1986 Serbian president Ivan Stambolic established a commission to amend the Serbian Constitution in keeping with conclusions adopted by the federal Communist Party.
The constitutional commission worked for three years to harmonize its positions and in 1989 an amended Serbian constitution was submitted to the governments of Kosovo, Vojvodina and Serbia for approval.
On March 10, 1989 the Vojvodina Assembly approved the amendments, followed by the Kosovo Assembly on March 23, and the Serbian Assembly on March 28.
In the Kosovo Assembly 187 of the 190 assembly members were present when the vote was taken: 10 voted against the amendments, two abstained, and the remaining 175 voted in favor of the amendments.
Although the ethnic composition of the Kosovo Assembly was over 70 percent Albanian, Kosovo-Albanian nationalists reacted violently to the constitutional amendments. The UPI wire service reported that "unrest began [in Kosovo] when amendments were approved returning to Serbia control over the province's police, courts, national defence and foreign affairs ... mass demonstrations turned into violent street rioting when demonstrators began using firearms against police." According to the report the rioting killed 29 people and injured 30 policemen and 97 civilians.
In the wake of the unrest following the 1989 constitutional amendments, ethnic Albanians in Kosovo largely boycotted the provincial government and refused to vote in the elections. Azem Vllasi, leader of the League of Communists of Kosovo, was arrested for inciting rioting amid a strike by Kosovo-Albanian miners. In the wake of the Albanian boycott, supporters of Slobodan Milošević were elected to positions of authority by the remaining Serbian voters in Kosovo."
Keep blaming Serbia and all Serbs for all your missery and misfortune. It seems to me that you were sold out by all Yugoslav republics and your own politicians. Of course nobody can deny that the communist politicians did not represent all people and their will in all republics. But at least be consistent and blame the Slovenian, Croation, Bosnian, Macedonian and Montenegrin communist politicians as well plus the people they represented (whether voluntary or not).
pre 15 godina
While I never doubted my country's opposition to Serbia's ICJ initiative, it's still funny to hear the same worn out approaches from Washington and its ambassadors: "Yes, we took a large chunk of your territory, but get over it. Yes, we did it largely of our own initiative and ignored your protests and willingness for compromise, but aren't you just living in the past? Move forward!"
So rational, it's irrational.
pre 15 godina
miri,#14
Y milosevic revoked autonomy?
pre 15 godina
Munter,
Only people and countries who are afraid to loose or loose face will make these kinds of comments. Kate and Jovan, great comments and sharp analysis.
pre 15 godina
"Surely the US would want the issue to be legitimised by the ICJ to prove that they had right on their side?"
That's becuase all you want is to delay and cause more trouble for Kosovo by keeping the status in limbo. How about EU freezes all trade with you until ICJ decides? Would Serbia who is beging EU like that? Nope. Since 1999 you have delayed it long enough with 'talks'
pre 15 godina
I am perfectly qualified to say that the majority of Serbs would rather keep Kosovo as part of their sovereign territory than join the EU. ..
(kate, 10 September 2008 13:14)
Serbs in Kosovo are 6% and majority of them means at least 4% want Kosovo to be part of Serbia. Hello! There are people living in Kosovo who think differently and are living free and independent life from Serbia and don’t want to be ruled and dictated anymore from Serbia.
pre 15 godina
Kate: "... I am perfectly qualified to say that the majority of Serbs would rather keep Kosovo as part of their sovereign territory than join the EU. I am going by numerous reports, discussions and polls. "
Of course they would NOW Kate, wouldn't they? But if the majority of Serbs wanted to keep Kosova, they should have rejected Milosevic atrocities and not send their boys and girls to clean Kosova from their inhabitants.
The reality is that "the majority of Serbs" wants a "clean from Albanians Kosovo" to remain part of their territory. And this is from " numerous reports, discussions and polls. " and above all the messages posted in this forum.
The only bullet that Serbia has is internationalizing Kosova's problem. I must say that have had some limited sucess but frankly not for long. It's not a silver bullet.
Serbia has been using and twisting int. law simply for scoring some cheap points.
Kosova's status is an issue invented by Milosevic. Before its autonomy was revoked, Kosova enjoyed practically all the rights of other Yugoslav republics as a constintuent part of that federation. Now you are saying that just because Milosevic decided otherwise(and the majority of Serbs surely suported him), Serbia today has the right to cry about int. law.
No one buys that.
And for those that think that US is nervous about Serbia's initiative, ask yourself this question: "Is really the elephant afraid of the mouse?"
pre 15 godina
The fact that the US opposes this Serbian initiative means that Serbia is doing the right thing for its national interests. This is because everything the US does now is anti-Serbian, so Serbia should just do the exact opposite of what the Americans say and they will be ok.
The US has shown repeatedly that it is Serbia's biggest enemy right now, and Russia has shown it is Serbia's biggest friend. The only thing the Yanks are interested in is completely destroying and enslaving Serbia. This is very clear, unless one is completely blind. Once we have a government that realizes this, all will be well.
pre 15 godina
"Surely the US would want the issue to be legitimised by the ICJ to prove that they had right on their side?"
That's because want to delay even more as they did with the 'talks' for over a decade. They want Kosova to fail and US /EU is not going to let them. How about EU puts your application on hold and freezes all trade cooperation till ICJ decides? I bet you don't like that
pre 15 godina
“Serbia is entitled to its own opinion, but we do not agree with the Serbian request.."
Why, this is marvelous. We've been granted the right
to have our own opinion about the UDI of 'Kosova'- by His Imperial Excellency. This must be the major breakthrough of Jeremic's diplomacy.
But now comes the gem :
"We hope that we can convince the government to focus on the future and not the past, and to work towards EU integration". together,”
'Hope'? Translated into a plain language, this means: "We'll make you change your mind whether you like it or not".
And you know what? considering the utter spinelessness of our Government, you can bet he'll manage to do just that.
And what about this recurring advice the Serbs receive whenever they are lectured by their western (and domestic) tutors- "to leave the past and to look to the future". This is the most loaded sentence we are being served as desserts three times a day,ever since the blessed Democracy was bestowed upon us.
Forget who you are (our history) and think of the money (future) you might get if you obey.
Your excellency, thanks to your country, the Serbs have nothing left but their past, and, as far as our future is concerned, we know it'll be safe in Swiss banks.
(P.S. Is there a way to declare this man, by popular request,a "persona non grata",for meddling in our internal affairs?)
pre 15 godina
Serbia should go ahead with their initiative. The US is entitled to their opinion, it just doesn't happen to be the opinion of Serbia. Why is the US even a member of the UN if they only want to agree when it suits their purposes. If Serbia accomplishes it's aims through the security council, more power to them. If not, they at least played by the rules that the US doesn't want to play by.
By the way, Russia doesn't play by the rules either, even though they support Serbia. Seems the bigger you are, the less willing you are to play well with others.
pre 15 godina
I´d answer to this man:
"the door is still open for the USA to change their flawed policy on supporting illegal activities inside a sovereign member-state of the united nations.
if you choose that way, your investments are welcome and could even be intensified, if not, you are free to leave this REAL land of the free, land of the brave, namely Serbia."
as for the article: seems like someone´s getting nervous. and little obeyers like olf still do not have the guts to open their eyes...
let´s just see what future brings.
pre 15 godina
I don’t know which part of ICJ does Serb diplomacy expect to win.
I certainly hope that they are not that insane to try and sell to Serbian people the idea that they are going to win the entire process.
pre 15 godina
avi,
Kate is right, this is not about Serbia anymore. Now this has grown to the much bigger question about if international law still applies. Of course US opposes international law because they want to impose a new order where the US will is the law. The US is not interested in "international" law, only their own hegemonical martial law.
pre 15 godina
To Avi # 4
Peace,progress and democracy will only be achieved if International law is respected by all and Kosovo stays where it should stay, a province in Serbia.
pre 15 godina
Avi: "You go and live in Serbia or Kosovo for a month and than come back and say what people want."
How do you know that I haven't? I am perfectly qualified to say that the majority of Serbs would rather keep Kosovo as part of their sovereign territory than join the EU. I am going by numerous reports, discussions and polls.
If there was any type of mutual agreement such as partition things would be different, but as it stands the majority of Serbs are outraged at having Kosovo taken from them.
Are you saying that I'm wrong? And how would living in Kosovo change the results of polls taken throughout Serbia exactly?
As for my other point: I can hardly see how saying that "everyone in the world wants progress, democracy and a normal life" could be debated by anyone!
We could do with a bit more democracy ourselves in the rest of Europe, and I'm sure that there are US citizens feeling exactly the same way.
pre 15 godina
Kate
People in Serbia are fed up of poverty,coruption and yes they want to have better life,better economy, social justice.
You go and live in Serbia or Kosovo for a month and than come back and say what people want.
Munter is right,Serbia should move ahead now forget Slovenia,Croatia,B&H and Kosovo.We should not stuck with 1990's and live with our hate but peace,progres and democracy.
pre 15 godina
The USA doesn't want Serbia to follow the law, but rather stay down after she was beaten by the Americans.
He tells all Serbians not to worry that they got beat and raped of their civil liberties.
"land of the free"
"home of the brave"
the statue of Liberty are all
suspended when if it refers to Serbia. Oh yeah there is also that revolving door that is waiting for the Serbian Ambassador to return to Washington.
However, i believe that the ICJ has already ruled the outcome in the USA's favour.
pre 15 godina
Dont listen to Munter and go for it Serbia and get the opinion of the ICJ.
The leading colonialists like the US, UK, France & Germany will be slap on their ugly faces once the ICJ nulify the kosovo UDI.
SERBIA HAS THE RIGHT TO DEFEND ITS SOVEREIGHTY.
KOSOVO IS SERBIA!!
pre 15 godina
What's this? Surely the US would want the issue to be legitimised by the ICJ to prove that they had right on their side?
This issue has become far broader than just being about Kosovo. Many countries need to know that the international framework for law and security is still in place. Some fear future repurcussions on their own borders and minorities if they are not.
"“The point is not to forget Kosovo, but what the people want, and all opinion polls show that they want progress, democracy and a normal life, while the Kosovo issue is not among the first things on their minds,” Munter underlined."
Of course everyone in the world wants progress, democracy and a normal life.
But Mr Munter needs to remember that the issue is not about the people of one province, but the people of the entire state. If there was a poll throughout Serbia, including Kosovo, the overwhelming result would be in favour of Kosovo remaining a province of Serbia. Even at the cost of joining the EU.
If new states are formed because of the opinions of independence seeking minorities in provinces of a legally recognised state, there will be no end to UDIs all over the globe. The argument that Kosovo is any difference is totally invalid, as the ICJ ruling will inevitably show.
pre 15 godina
> U.S. Ambassador to Serbia Cameron Munter reiterated U.S. opposition to Serbia’s initiative before the General Assembly.
> Serbia is entitled to its own opinion, but we do not agree with the Serbian request.
Why is it that the so-called 'leader of the free world' is so opposed to an ICJ ruling on this issue?
Given that the US believes that it's interpretation of UN resolution 1244 is correct under international law, what then does it have to fear?
One would have thought that the 'bastion of democracy' would be only too happy to see a country seek to resolve this issue through the ICJ rather than using other means.
Unless of course the K-albanian UDI has no basis under 1244 & is utterly illegitimate.
As an interesting aside, Costa Rica, even though it has recognised US-puppet 'pseudo-state', will be supporting the ICJ action.
So either they really do believe in the legitimacy of the UDI, or they are 'sticking it to the US' for being forced to recognise US-puppet.
And given that Costa Rica was amongst the first countries to recognise & that Kosovo is completely outside of it's sphere of interest, my guess is the latter.
And if Costa Rica would do so, how many of the other 'little guys' will follow suit?
pre 15 godina
What's this? Surely the US would want the issue to be legitimised by the ICJ to prove that they had right on their side?
This issue has become far broader than just being about Kosovo. Many countries need to know that the international framework for law and security is still in place. Some fear future repurcussions on their own borders and minorities if they are not.
"“The point is not to forget Kosovo, but what the people want, and all opinion polls show that they want progress, democracy and a normal life, while the Kosovo issue is not among the first things on their minds,” Munter underlined."
Of course everyone in the world wants progress, democracy and a normal life.
But Mr Munter needs to remember that the issue is not about the people of one province, but the people of the entire state. If there was a poll throughout Serbia, including Kosovo, the overwhelming result would be in favour of Kosovo remaining a province of Serbia. Even at the cost of joining the EU.
If new states are formed because of the opinions of independence seeking minorities in provinces of a legally recognised state, there will be no end to UDIs all over the globe. The argument that Kosovo is any difference is totally invalid, as the ICJ ruling will inevitably show.
pre 15 godina
Dont listen to Munter and go for it Serbia and get the opinion of the ICJ.
The leading colonialists like the US, UK, France & Germany will be slap on their ugly faces once the ICJ nulify the kosovo UDI.
SERBIA HAS THE RIGHT TO DEFEND ITS SOVEREIGHTY.
KOSOVO IS SERBIA!!
pre 15 godina
> U.S. Ambassador to Serbia Cameron Munter reiterated U.S. opposition to Serbia’s initiative before the General Assembly.
> Serbia is entitled to its own opinion, but we do not agree with the Serbian request.
Why is it that the so-called 'leader of the free world' is so opposed to an ICJ ruling on this issue?
Given that the US believes that it's interpretation of UN resolution 1244 is correct under international law, what then does it have to fear?
One would have thought that the 'bastion of democracy' would be only too happy to see a country seek to resolve this issue through the ICJ rather than using other means.
Unless of course the K-albanian UDI has no basis under 1244 & is utterly illegitimate.
As an interesting aside, Costa Rica, even though it has recognised US-puppet 'pseudo-state', will be supporting the ICJ action.
So either they really do believe in the legitimacy of the UDI, or they are 'sticking it to the US' for being forced to recognise US-puppet.
And given that Costa Rica was amongst the first countries to recognise & that Kosovo is completely outside of it's sphere of interest, my guess is the latter.
And if Costa Rica would do so, how many of the other 'little guys' will follow suit?
pre 15 godina
The USA doesn't want Serbia to follow the law, but rather stay down after she was beaten by the Americans.
He tells all Serbians not to worry that they got beat and raped of their civil liberties.
"land of the free"
"home of the brave"
the statue of Liberty are all
suspended when if it refers to Serbia. Oh yeah there is also that revolving door that is waiting for the Serbian Ambassador to return to Washington.
However, i believe that the ICJ has already ruled the outcome in the USA's favour.
pre 15 godina
The fact that the US opposes this Serbian initiative means that Serbia is doing the right thing for its national interests. This is because everything the US does now is anti-Serbian, so Serbia should just do the exact opposite of what the Americans say and they will be ok.
The US has shown repeatedly that it is Serbia's biggest enemy right now, and Russia has shown it is Serbia's biggest friend. The only thing the Yanks are interested in is completely destroying and enslaving Serbia. This is very clear, unless one is completely blind. Once we have a government that realizes this, all will be well.
pre 15 godina
avi,
Kate is right, this is not about Serbia anymore. Now this has grown to the much bigger question about if international law still applies. Of course US opposes international law because they want to impose a new order where the US will is the law. The US is not interested in "international" law, only their own hegemonical martial law.
pre 15 godina
Avi: "You go and live in Serbia or Kosovo for a month and than come back and say what people want."
How do you know that I haven't? I am perfectly qualified to say that the majority of Serbs would rather keep Kosovo as part of their sovereign territory than join the EU. I am going by numerous reports, discussions and polls.
If there was any type of mutual agreement such as partition things would be different, but as it stands the majority of Serbs are outraged at having Kosovo taken from them.
Are you saying that I'm wrong? And how would living in Kosovo change the results of polls taken throughout Serbia exactly?
As for my other point: I can hardly see how saying that "everyone in the world wants progress, democracy and a normal life" could be debated by anyone!
We could do with a bit more democracy ourselves in the rest of Europe, and I'm sure that there are US citizens feeling exactly the same way.
pre 15 godina
To Avi # 4
Peace,progress and democracy will only be achieved if International law is respected by all and Kosovo stays where it should stay, a province in Serbia.
pre 15 godina
I´d answer to this man:
"the door is still open for the USA to change their flawed policy on supporting illegal activities inside a sovereign member-state of the united nations.
if you choose that way, your investments are welcome and could even be intensified, if not, you are free to leave this REAL land of the free, land of the brave, namely Serbia."
as for the article: seems like someone´s getting nervous. and little obeyers like olf still do not have the guts to open their eyes...
let´s just see what future brings.
pre 15 godina
While I never doubted my country's opposition to Serbia's ICJ initiative, it's still funny to hear the same worn out approaches from Washington and its ambassadors: "Yes, we took a large chunk of your territory, but get over it. Yes, we did it largely of our own initiative and ignored your protests and willingness for compromise, but aren't you just living in the past? Move forward!"
So rational, it's irrational.
pre 15 godina
Munter,
Only people and countries who are afraid to loose or loose face will make these kinds of comments. Kate and Jovan, great comments and sharp analysis.
pre 15 godina
“Serbia is entitled to its own opinion, but we do not agree with the Serbian request.."
Why, this is marvelous. We've been granted the right
to have our own opinion about the UDI of 'Kosova'- by His Imperial Excellency. This must be the major breakthrough of Jeremic's diplomacy.
But now comes the gem :
"We hope that we can convince the government to focus on the future and not the past, and to work towards EU integration". together,”
'Hope'? Translated into a plain language, this means: "We'll make you change your mind whether you like it or not".
And you know what? considering the utter spinelessness of our Government, you can bet he'll manage to do just that.
And what about this recurring advice the Serbs receive whenever they are lectured by their western (and domestic) tutors- "to leave the past and to look to the future". This is the most loaded sentence we are being served as desserts three times a day,ever since the blessed Democracy was bestowed upon us.
Forget who you are (our history) and think of the money (future) you might get if you obey.
Your excellency, thanks to your country, the Serbs have nothing left but their past, and, as far as our future is concerned, we know it'll be safe in Swiss banks.
(P.S. Is there a way to declare this man, by popular request,a "persona non grata",for meddling in our internal affairs?)
pre 15 godina
Serbia should go ahead with their initiative. The US is entitled to their opinion, it just doesn't happen to be the opinion of Serbia. Why is the US even a member of the UN if they only want to agree when it suits their purposes. If Serbia accomplishes it's aims through the security council, more power to them. If not, they at least played by the rules that the US doesn't want to play by.
By the way, Russia doesn't play by the rules either, even though they support Serbia. Seems the bigger you are, the less willing you are to play well with others.
pre 15 godina
Munter's comments only underscore the complete disdain that the U.S. establishment holds for any form of legal system in which it does not pick all of the judges.
There could also be no greater contrast than the one between Munter, who enthusiastically undermines Serbian national rights and talks down to the entire nation, and former Canadian ambassador James Bissett who had the courage to oppose his own government and testify in defense of President Slobodan Milosevic as well as actively defending Serbia's rights to Kosovo. Bissett deserves a medal from Serbia, Munter should be sent home.
Obviously, this issue is a Catch-22 situation for the U.S. If Serbia wins at the ICJ, the U.S. theft of Kosovo fails instantly. If Serbia fails at the ICJ, it will nevertheless continue to seek to return Serbs to Kosovo by other means, while a legal precedent will be set for the detatching of various pro-Russian enclaves from countries bordering Russia as well as for the eventual separation of majority Hispanic areas from the U.S. southwest. The U.S. loses either way.
The most interesting question now is whether the ICJ legal challenge is the last measure that will be pursued by Jeremic or the opening of a new round of much more practical efforts. If the appeal to the court is not followed up by other actions, Jeremic would effectively be shelving the issue for a number of years (awaiting a ruling), allowing the Albanian terror leadership to consolidate their regime in Kosovo.
To be effective, any Serbian initiative at the ICJ must be followed up by a continuing expansion of the official Serbian government presence in Kosovo, including the opening of government offices, and a large scale financial and political investment in returning Serbian people to the region, led by members of the government themselves.
The clock is ticking down until we finally see whether Jeremic will match his words about Kosovo with support for real action on the ground aimed at first securing and then expanding the Serbian presence in Serbia's Kosovo province.
We should all watch closely.
John Bosnitch
john.b@imcnews.com
pre 15 godina
Miri #14 "Kosova's status is an issue invented by Milosevic. Before its autonomy was revoked, Kosova enjoyed practically all the rights of other Yugoslav republics as a constintuent part of that federation. Now you are saying that just because Milosevic decided otherwise(and the majority of Serbs surely suported him), Serbia today has the right to cry about int. law."
"Starting in 1982 and 1983, in response to nationalist Albanian riots in Kosovo, the Central Committee of the SFRY League of Communists adopted a set of conclusions aimed at centralizing Serbia’s control over law enforcement and the judiciary in its Kosovo and Vojvodina provinces.
In 1986 Serbian president Ivan Stambolic established a commission to amend the Serbian Constitution in keeping with conclusions adopted by the federal Communist Party.
The constitutional commission worked for three years to harmonize its positions and in 1989 an amended Serbian constitution was submitted to the governments of Kosovo, Vojvodina and Serbia for approval.
On March 10, 1989 the Vojvodina Assembly approved the amendments, followed by the Kosovo Assembly on March 23, and the Serbian Assembly on March 28.
In the Kosovo Assembly 187 of the 190 assembly members were present when the vote was taken: 10 voted against the amendments, two abstained, and the remaining 175 voted in favor of the amendments.
Although the ethnic composition of the Kosovo Assembly was over 70 percent Albanian, Kosovo-Albanian nationalists reacted violently to the constitutional amendments. The UPI wire service reported that "unrest began [in Kosovo] when amendments were approved returning to Serbia control over the province's police, courts, national defence and foreign affairs ... mass demonstrations turned into violent street rioting when demonstrators began using firearms against police." According to the report the rioting killed 29 people and injured 30 policemen and 97 civilians.
In the wake of the unrest following the 1989 constitutional amendments, ethnic Albanians in Kosovo largely boycotted the provincial government and refused to vote in the elections. Azem Vllasi, leader of the League of Communists of Kosovo, was arrested for inciting rioting amid a strike by Kosovo-Albanian miners. In the wake of the Albanian boycott, supporters of Slobodan Milošević were elected to positions of authority by the remaining Serbian voters in Kosovo."
Keep blaming Serbia and all Serbs for all your missery and misfortune. It seems to me that you were sold out by all Yugoslav republics and your own politicians. Of course nobody can deny that the communist politicians did not represent all people and their will in all republics. But at least be consistent and blame the Slovenian, Croation, Bosnian, Macedonian and Montenegrin communist politicians as well plus the people they represented (whether voluntary or not).
pre 15 godina
Alban #22,
Please check out the following link to see that Michael Sells probably has a personal and professional problem with the (Serbian) Orthodox Church considering his love for and interest in Islam.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Michael_Sells
In the 1999 article from the link you provided Kosovo is written as Kosova, indicating that may have been paid by Albanian terrorists/KLA to write this (especially since it is also pro-NATO).
pre 15 godina
Kate
People in Serbia are fed up of poverty,coruption and yes they want to have better life,better economy, social justice.
You go and live in Serbia or Kosovo for a month and than come back and say what people want.
Munter is right,Serbia should move ahead now forget Slovenia,Croatia,B&H and Kosovo.We should not stuck with 1990's and live with our hate but peace,progres and democracy.
pre 15 godina
"And for those that think that US is nervous about Serbia's initiative, ask yourself this question: "Is really the elephant afraid of the mouse?"
(miri, 10 September 2008 15:20) "
But miri!!! the elephant is supposed to be afraid of the mouse according to folklore!
Go to any search engine and check this out! Do visit this linke too! http://www.sciencesurvivalblog.com/wp-content/uploads/2008/06/elephant_mouse.jpg
(I'm chuckling as I write)
pre 15 godina
I am perfectly qualified to say that the majority of Serbs would rather keep Kosovo as part of their sovereign territory than join the EU. ..
(kate, 10 September 2008 13:14)
Serbs in Kosovo are 6% and majority of them means at least 4% want Kosovo to be part of Serbia. Hello! There are people living in Kosovo who think differently and are living free and independent life from Serbia and don’t want to be ruled and dictated anymore from Serbia.
pre 15 godina
Kate: "... I am perfectly qualified to say that the majority of Serbs would rather keep Kosovo as part of their sovereign territory than join the EU. I am going by numerous reports, discussions and polls. "
Of course they would NOW Kate, wouldn't they? But if the majority of Serbs wanted to keep Kosova, they should have rejected Milosevic atrocities and not send their boys and girls to clean Kosova from their inhabitants.
The reality is that "the majority of Serbs" wants a "clean from Albanians Kosovo" to remain part of their territory. And this is from " numerous reports, discussions and polls. " and above all the messages posted in this forum.
The only bullet that Serbia has is internationalizing Kosova's problem. I must say that have had some limited sucess but frankly not for long. It's not a silver bullet.
Serbia has been using and twisting int. law simply for scoring some cheap points.
Kosova's status is an issue invented by Milosevic. Before its autonomy was revoked, Kosova enjoyed practically all the rights of other Yugoslav republics as a constintuent part of that federation. Now you are saying that just because Milosevic decided otherwise(and the majority of Serbs surely suported him), Serbia today has the right to cry about int. law.
No one buys that.
And for those that think that US is nervous about Serbia's initiative, ask yourself this question: "Is really the elephant afraid of the mouse?"
pre 15 godina
Avi@4. Serbia can look to the future and have prosperity without giving up on Kosovo. Why do you think Serbia needs to give Kosovo away to have that?
A bully telling the victim to give his lunch money to him if he wants to avoid his face being bashed in.
You can't have both. A face and your money. If the victim stands up to the bully he certainly can.
Serbia should not be afraid of the bully. They got one shot in (bombing of Serbia) but they will not get another. Serbia has powerful friends now.
pre 15 godina
I don’t know which part of ICJ does Serb diplomacy expect to win.
I certainly hope that they are not that insane to try and sell to Serbian people the idea that they are going to win the entire process.
pre 15 godina
miri,#14
Y milosevic revoked autonomy?
pre 15 godina
He said that American and other foreign investors would come to Serbia only if it continued its road towards the EU and achieved stability.
So we need to work on achieving stability while our Albanians friends are threatening with wars and instability if they don't get evrything they want and, I'm not sure if Kosovo is all they wanted they might come to Nis now saying that its rightfully theirs because Nish means One in Albanian.
pre 15 godina
Alban,
You and other Albanians who post here should first of all stick to the subject of the article you are commenting on (B92 can also act as a filter in this respect and should take some responsibility). Your link brings us to books about rape and rape victims. Very sad and serious subjects that apparently deserve more attention than they get and are unfortunately a problem in all societies. However, that is not the subject that is being discussed here (it was about comments made by Munter on the ICJ case by Serbia against the illegal UDI). I do not care that Sells is part Serb (what is (are) the other part(s)?) and that he did not like the socialist party policies of the 1990's. He may view himself more Muslim than part Serb. I did not see any statistics so why did you refer to this? If this was such a real issues your US masters would have tried to use it in their anti-Serbia campaigns, but they did not (maybe for some senseable reason). By the way, I do not believe any Western political statistics for it is always presented without prove (which makes it more propaganda). Grow up and take part in constructive and mature discussions or else spare us you immature comments and post them on Albanian sites.
pre 15 godina
It is hard to believe ! Outrageous behaviour of this mr.USA! How can he even dare to push Serbia to withdraw the legal request? USA is an outlaw.What a shame,,,I hope Serbia will expell this ambasador home to his «freedom» land.Let Serbia accept any help from outside but never to let the americans to step even in that land,after bombing 78 days civilian infrastrucrure,robed the state's heart and now they offer a cookie for not seeking the justice! I have no words! So frustrating.Now there is no doubt the USA became the world's gangster.
pre 15 godina
[quote]once the ICJ nulify the kosovo UDI.[/quote]
While I support Serbia's ICJ initiative for it's symbolic value, it's sad to see people's false hopes and basically misunderstandings about what the ICJ is and what its mandate is.
The ICJ has no power to "nullify" anything.
Actually, I could have put a period after "power" in the last sentence and left it at that.
Let me try to explain it as best I understand it.
The ICJ is an advisory body of the UN General Assembly – another powerless body.
The UN General Assembly members can vote to place a question or matter before the ICJ. This is what Serbia is endeavouring at the present moment – to place on the agenda of the UNGA to vote on the matter to send the question of Kosovo’s UDI to the ICJ.
The ICJ then comes up with a position on the matter. Likely, the ICJ will rule in Serbia’s favour.
The ICJ then returns its position to the UNGA.
The UNGA can the, based on the position of the ICJ, state a position on the matter.
The UNGA can then table the motion before the UN Security Council (the only organ of the UN that has any ability to actually do anything).
The UNSC will then do nothing. Never. The USA, the main sponsor of Kosovo’s UDI will veto any attempt to even bring the issue up.
In short – the ICJ will rule in Serbia’s favour. Nothing practical will ever come of it.
So please, I say this because I love Serbia and want Serbia to succeed, don’t take this as some sort of attack. It simply pains me to see people living in some kind of fantasy world thinking that the ICJ can “nullify” anything.
Respectfully, Danilo
pre 15 godina
THE PEOPLE OF SERBIA WANT WHAT WAS TAKEN FROM THEM BY THE USA KOSOVO!!!!!!!!!
pre 15 godina
"Surely the US would want the issue to be legitimised by the ICJ to prove that they had right on their side?"
That's because want to delay even more as they did with the 'talks' for over a decade. They want Kosova to fail and US /EU is not going to let them. How about EU puts your application on hold and freezes all trade cooperation till ICJ decides? I bet you don't like that
pre 15 godina
"Surely the US would want the issue to be legitimised by the ICJ to prove that they had right on their side?"
That's becuase all you want is to delay and cause more trouble for Kosovo by keeping the status in limbo. How about EU freezes all trade with you until ICJ decides? Would Serbia who is beging EU like that? Nope. Since 1999 you have delayed it long enough with 'talks'
pre 15 godina
Just a week ago Inner City Press reported that the US had not yet decided how they would vote on the Serb resolution. Has this changed?
See:
http://www.innercitypress.com/icj1serbia090508.html
pre 15 godina
While at ICJ the Serbia should seek War Crime charges against Holbrooke for targeting civilians in the NATO bombings. Perhaps all the millions he is making in consulting fees from Saudis as a reward for Kosovo ought to be distributed as compensation to Kosovo Serb victims.
pre 15 godina
Serbia has every right for the ICJ to check into the legality of Kosovo's declared independence. Is the USA embarrassed by this?
pre 15 godina
Danilo in Vancouver:
Agree with all you've said save this:
> Nothing practical will ever come of it.
Wrote this in July:
> As to the 'effectiveness' of a ruling against the UDI, while a US veto ensures against UN intervention, veto does not negate negative impact of such with regard to future recognition from currently uncommitted nations.
Still think it applies only more so given the russian intervention in Georgia.
pre 15 godina
Y milosevic revoked "autonomy?"
Why did he attack Slovenia, Croatia, Bosnia and Kosovo?
http://www.ess.uwe.ac.uk/Kosovo/Kosovo-Current_News233.htm
"These new allegations against NATO are ominously similar to Serb nationalists' charges in 1986 that Kosovar Albanians were destroying the monasteries. This charge was combined with other inflammatory allegations that Kosovar Albanians were illegal immigrants who should be expelled; that Albanians were using their high birth rate as a tool to commit" demographic genocide" against Kosova's Serb minority; and that they were carrying out widespread rapes of Serb women. In 1986, Serbian Orthodox bishops repeated these allegations and charged that genocide was being carried out against Serbs in Kosova. The same charges were repeated in the famous "Memorandum" written by Serbian intellectuals attacking the Yugoslav constitution and the autonomy of Kosova. In this inflamed environment, Slobodan Milosevic made his leap to power by promising he would protect the Serb people and their shrines against their enemies.
What was the truth of these frightening allegations? There were genuine grievances by both Serbs and Albanians in Kosova, and both groups felt threatened. But Serb independent journalists and human rights workers found the more inflammatory charges to be total fabrications. A study of police records in Kosova showed only one rape of an ethnic Serb by an Albanian in an entire year. Similarly, the alleged destruction of Serb shrines turned out to involve isolated cases of vandalism, graffiti, and cutting of trees on church property -- hate crimes, perhaps, but surely not the organized, genocidal annihilation that was claimed."
pre 15 godina
Milos,
how about these other researchers: http://books.google.com/books?um=1&q=rapes+kosovo+sanu+church+serbs
Are they all lying? Sells is part Serb by the way. The fact that he doesn't like what happened in 1990's doesn't make him less of a Serb. Statistics are statistics. Rape and crime was lower in Kosovo /a that in Serbia.
pre 15 godina
The Costa Rican Ambassador is a worthy representative of the small nations of the world - he also spoke up against Russia's invasion of Georgia on the basis that the only hope small countries have for freedom from interference by large countries is international law.
Personally, I think the best outcome would be for the General Assembly to vote to send it to the ICJ, and for the ICJ to state that it has no jurisdiction in the case, since it is a political rather than a legal question. We'll soon see, in any case.
pre 15 godina
Kate
People in Serbia are fed up of poverty,coruption and yes they want to have better life,better economy, social justice.
You go and live in Serbia or Kosovo for a month and than come back and say what people want.
Munter is right,Serbia should move ahead now forget Slovenia,Croatia,B&H and Kosovo.We should not stuck with 1990's and live with our hate but peace,progres and democracy.
pre 15 godina
I am perfectly qualified to say that the majority of Serbs would rather keep Kosovo as part of their sovereign territory than join the EU. ..
(kate, 10 September 2008 13:14)
Serbs in Kosovo are 6% and majority of them means at least 4% want Kosovo to be part of Serbia. Hello! There are people living in Kosovo who think differently and are living free and independent life from Serbia and don’t want to be ruled and dictated anymore from Serbia.
pre 15 godina
I don’t know which part of ICJ does Serb diplomacy expect to win.
I certainly hope that they are not that insane to try and sell to Serbian people the idea that they are going to win the entire process.
pre 15 godina
Kate: "... I am perfectly qualified to say that the majority of Serbs would rather keep Kosovo as part of their sovereign territory than join the EU. I am going by numerous reports, discussions and polls. "
Of course they would NOW Kate, wouldn't they? But if the majority of Serbs wanted to keep Kosova, they should have rejected Milosevic atrocities and not send their boys and girls to clean Kosova from their inhabitants.
The reality is that "the majority of Serbs" wants a "clean from Albanians Kosovo" to remain part of their territory. And this is from " numerous reports, discussions and polls. " and above all the messages posted in this forum.
The only bullet that Serbia has is internationalizing Kosova's problem. I must say that have had some limited sucess but frankly not for long. It's not a silver bullet.
Serbia has been using and twisting int. law simply for scoring some cheap points.
Kosova's status is an issue invented by Milosevic. Before its autonomy was revoked, Kosova enjoyed practically all the rights of other Yugoslav republics as a constintuent part of that federation. Now you are saying that just because Milosevic decided otherwise(and the majority of Serbs surely suported him), Serbia today has the right to cry about int. law.
No one buys that.
And for those that think that US is nervous about Serbia's initiative, ask yourself this question: "Is really the elephant afraid of the mouse?"
pre 15 godina
Y milosevic revoked "autonomy?"
Why did he attack Slovenia, Croatia, Bosnia and Kosovo?
http://www.ess.uwe.ac.uk/Kosovo/Kosovo-Current_News233.htm
"These new allegations against NATO are ominously similar to Serb nationalists' charges in 1986 that Kosovar Albanians were destroying the monasteries. This charge was combined with other inflammatory allegations that Kosovar Albanians were illegal immigrants who should be expelled; that Albanians were using their high birth rate as a tool to commit" demographic genocide" against Kosova's Serb minority; and that they were carrying out widespread rapes of Serb women. In 1986, Serbian Orthodox bishops repeated these allegations and charged that genocide was being carried out against Serbs in Kosova. The same charges were repeated in the famous "Memorandum" written by Serbian intellectuals attacking the Yugoslav constitution and the autonomy of Kosova. In this inflamed environment, Slobodan Milosevic made his leap to power by promising he would protect the Serb people and their shrines against their enemies.
What was the truth of these frightening allegations? There were genuine grievances by both Serbs and Albanians in Kosova, and both groups felt threatened. But Serb independent journalists and human rights workers found the more inflammatory charges to be total fabrications. A study of police records in Kosova showed only one rape of an ethnic Serb by an Albanian in an entire year. Similarly, the alleged destruction of Serb shrines turned out to involve isolated cases of vandalism, graffiti, and cutting of trees on church property -- hate crimes, perhaps, but surely not the organized, genocidal annihilation that was claimed."
pre 15 godina
"Surely the US would want the issue to be legitimised by the ICJ to prove that they had right on their side?"
That's because want to delay even more as they did with the 'talks' for over a decade. They want Kosova to fail and US /EU is not going to let them. How about EU puts your application on hold and freezes all trade cooperation till ICJ decides? I bet you don't like that
pre 15 godina
"Surely the US would want the issue to be legitimised by the ICJ to prove that they had right on their side?"
That's becuase all you want is to delay and cause more trouble for Kosovo by keeping the status in limbo. How about EU freezes all trade with you until ICJ decides? Would Serbia who is beging EU like that? Nope. Since 1999 you have delayed it long enough with 'talks'
pre 15 godina
Milos,
how about these other researchers: http://books.google.com/books?um=1&q=rapes+kosovo+sanu+church+serbs
Are they all lying? Sells is part Serb by the way. The fact that he doesn't like what happened in 1990's doesn't make him less of a Serb. Statistics are statistics. Rape and crime was lower in Kosovo /a that in Serbia.
pre 15 godina
What's this? Surely the US would want the issue to be legitimised by the ICJ to prove that they had right on their side?
This issue has become far broader than just being about Kosovo. Many countries need to know that the international framework for law and security is still in place. Some fear future repurcussions on their own borders and minorities if they are not.
"“The point is not to forget Kosovo, but what the people want, and all opinion polls show that they want progress, democracy and a normal life, while the Kosovo issue is not among the first things on their minds,” Munter underlined."
Of course everyone in the world wants progress, democracy and a normal life.
But Mr Munter needs to remember that the issue is not about the people of one province, but the people of the entire state. If there was a poll throughout Serbia, including Kosovo, the overwhelming result would be in favour of Kosovo remaining a province of Serbia. Even at the cost of joining the EU.
If new states are formed because of the opinions of independence seeking minorities in provinces of a legally recognised state, there will be no end to UDIs all over the globe. The argument that Kosovo is any difference is totally invalid, as the ICJ ruling will inevitably show.
pre 15 godina
Serbia should go ahead with their initiative. The US is entitled to their opinion, it just doesn't happen to be the opinion of Serbia. Why is the US even a member of the UN if they only want to agree when it suits their purposes. If Serbia accomplishes it's aims through the security council, more power to them. If not, they at least played by the rules that the US doesn't want to play by.
By the way, Russia doesn't play by the rules either, even though they support Serbia. Seems the bigger you are, the less willing you are to play well with others.
pre 15 godina
“Serbia is entitled to its own opinion, but we do not agree with the Serbian request.."
Why, this is marvelous. We've been granted the right
to have our own opinion about the UDI of 'Kosova'- by His Imperial Excellency. This must be the major breakthrough of Jeremic's diplomacy.
But now comes the gem :
"We hope that we can convince the government to focus on the future and not the past, and to work towards EU integration". together,”
'Hope'? Translated into a plain language, this means: "We'll make you change your mind whether you like it or not".
And you know what? considering the utter spinelessness of our Government, you can bet he'll manage to do just that.
And what about this recurring advice the Serbs receive whenever they are lectured by their western (and domestic) tutors- "to leave the past and to look to the future". This is the most loaded sentence we are being served as desserts three times a day,ever since the blessed Democracy was bestowed upon us.
Forget who you are (our history) and think of the money (future) you might get if you obey.
Your excellency, thanks to your country, the Serbs have nothing left but their past, and, as far as our future is concerned, we know it'll be safe in Swiss banks.
(P.S. Is there a way to declare this man, by popular request,a "persona non grata",for meddling in our internal affairs?)
pre 15 godina
The Costa Rican Ambassador is a worthy representative of the small nations of the world - he also spoke up against Russia's invasion of Georgia on the basis that the only hope small countries have for freedom from interference by large countries is international law.
Personally, I think the best outcome would be for the General Assembly to vote to send it to the ICJ, and for the ICJ to state that it has no jurisdiction in the case, since it is a political rather than a legal question. We'll soon see, in any case.
pre 15 godina
Dont listen to Munter and go for it Serbia and get the opinion of the ICJ.
The leading colonialists like the US, UK, France & Germany will be slap on their ugly faces once the ICJ nulify the kosovo UDI.
SERBIA HAS THE RIGHT TO DEFEND ITS SOVEREIGHTY.
KOSOVO IS SERBIA!!
pre 15 godina
> U.S. Ambassador to Serbia Cameron Munter reiterated U.S. opposition to Serbia’s initiative before the General Assembly.
> Serbia is entitled to its own opinion, but we do not agree with the Serbian request.
Why is it that the so-called 'leader of the free world' is so opposed to an ICJ ruling on this issue?
Given that the US believes that it's interpretation of UN resolution 1244 is correct under international law, what then does it have to fear?
One would have thought that the 'bastion of democracy' would be only too happy to see a country seek to resolve this issue through the ICJ rather than using other means.
Unless of course the K-albanian UDI has no basis under 1244 & is utterly illegitimate.
As an interesting aside, Costa Rica, even though it has recognised US-puppet 'pseudo-state', will be supporting the ICJ action.
So either they really do believe in the legitimacy of the UDI, or they are 'sticking it to the US' for being forced to recognise US-puppet.
And given that Costa Rica was amongst the first countries to recognise & that Kosovo is completely outside of it's sphere of interest, my guess is the latter.
And if Costa Rica would do so, how many of the other 'little guys' will follow suit?
pre 15 godina
The USA doesn't want Serbia to follow the law, but rather stay down after she was beaten by the Americans.
He tells all Serbians not to worry that they got beat and raped of their civil liberties.
"land of the free"
"home of the brave"
the statue of Liberty are all
suspended when if it refers to Serbia. Oh yeah there is also that revolving door that is waiting for the Serbian Ambassador to return to Washington.
However, i believe that the ICJ has already ruled the outcome in the USA's favour.
pre 15 godina
avi,
Kate is right, this is not about Serbia anymore. Now this has grown to the much bigger question about if international law still applies. Of course US opposes international law because they want to impose a new order where the US will is the law. The US is not interested in "international" law, only their own hegemonical martial law.
pre 15 godina
Avi: "You go and live in Serbia or Kosovo for a month and than come back and say what people want."
How do you know that I haven't? I am perfectly qualified to say that the majority of Serbs would rather keep Kosovo as part of their sovereign territory than join the EU. I am going by numerous reports, discussions and polls.
If there was any type of mutual agreement such as partition things would be different, but as it stands the majority of Serbs are outraged at having Kosovo taken from them.
Are you saying that I'm wrong? And how would living in Kosovo change the results of polls taken throughout Serbia exactly?
As for my other point: I can hardly see how saying that "everyone in the world wants progress, democracy and a normal life" could be debated by anyone!
We could do with a bit more democracy ourselves in the rest of Europe, and I'm sure that there are US citizens feeling exactly the same way.
pre 15 godina
To Avi # 4
Peace,progress and democracy will only be achieved if International law is respected by all and Kosovo stays where it should stay, a province in Serbia.
pre 15 godina
I´d answer to this man:
"the door is still open for the USA to change their flawed policy on supporting illegal activities inside a sovereign member-state of the united nations.
if you choose that way, your investments are welcome and could even be intensified, if not, you are free to leave this REAL land of the free, land of the brave, namely Serbia."
as for the article: seems like someone´s getting nervous. and little obeyers like olf still do not have the guts to open their eyes...
let´s just see what future brings.
pre 15 godina
The fact that the US opposes this Serbian initiative means that Serbia is doing the right thing for its national interests. This is because everything the US does now is anti-Serbian, so Serbia should just do the exact opposite of what the Americans say and they will be ok.
The US has shown repeatedly that it is Serbia's biggest enemy right now, and Russia has shown it is Serbia's biggest friend. The only thing the Yanks are interested in is completely destroying and enslaving Serbia. This is very clear, unless one is completely blind. Once we have a government that realizes this, all will be well.
pre 15 godina
miri,#14
Y milosevic revoked autonomy?
pre 15 godina
Munter,
Only people and countries who are afraid to loose or loose face will make these kinds of comments. Kate and Jovan, great comments and sharp analysis.
pre 15 godina
While I never doubted my country's opposition to Serbia's ICJ initiative, it's still funny to hear the same worn out approaches from Washington and its ambassadors: "Yes, we took a large chunk of your territory, but get over it. Yes, we did it largely of our own initiative and ignored your protests and willingness for compromise, but aren't you just living in the past? Move forward!"
So rational, it's irrational.
pre 15 godina
Miri #14 "Kosova's status is an issue invented by Milosevic. Before its autonomy was revoked, Kosova enjoyed practically all the rights of other Yugoslav republics as a constintuent part of that federation. Now you are saying that just because Milosevic decided otherwise(and the majority of Serbs surely suported him), Serbia today has the right to cry about int. law."
"Starting in 1982 and 1983, in response to nationalist Albanian riots in Kosovo, the Central Committee of the SFRY League of Communists adopted a set of conclusions aimed at centralizing Serbia’s control over law enforcement and the judiciary in its Kosovo and Vojvodina provinces.
In 1986 Serbian president Ivan Stambolic established a commission to amend the Serbian Constitution in keeping with conclusions adopted by the federal Communist Party.
The constitutional commission worked for three years to harmonize its positions and in 1989 an amended Serbian constitution was submitted to the governments of Kosovo, Vojvodina and Serbia for approval.
On March 10, 1989 the Vojvodina Assembly approved the amendments, followed by the Kosovo Assembly on March 23, and the Serbian Assembly on March 28.
In the Kosovo Assembly 187 of the 190 assembly members were present when the vote was taken: 10 voted against the amendments, two abstained, and the remaining 175 voted in favor of the amendments.
Although the ethnic composition of the Kosovo Assembly was over 70 percent Albanian, Kosovo-Albanian nationalists reacted violently to the constitutional amendments. The UPI wire service reported that "unrest began [in Kosovo] when amendments were approved returning to Serbia control over the province's police, courts, national defence and foreign affairs ... mass demonstrations turned into violent street rioting when demonstrators began using firearms against police." According to the report the rioting killed 29 people and injured 30 policemen and 97 civilians.
In the wake of the unrest following the 1989 constitutional amendments, ethnic Albanians in Kosovo largely boycotted the provincial government and refused to vote in the elections. Azem Vllasi, leader of the League of Communists of Kosovo, was arrested for inciting rioting amid a strike by Kosovo-Albanian miners. In the wake of the Albanian boycott, supporters of Slobodan Milošević were elected to positions of authority by the remaining Serbian voters in Kosovo."
Keep blaming Serbia and all Serbs for all your missery and misfortune. It seems to me that you were sold out by all Yugoslav republics and your own politicians. Of course nobody can deny that the communist politicians did not represent all people and their will in all republics. But at least be consistent and blame the Slovenian, Croation, Bosnian, Macedonian and Montenegrin communist politicians as well plus the people they represented (whether voluntary or not).
pre 15 godina
Alban #22,
Please check out the following link to see that Michael Sells probably has a personal and professional problem with the (Serbian) Orthodox Church considering his love for and interest in Islam.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Michael_Sells
In the 1999 article from the link you provided Kosovo is written as Kosova, indicating that may have been paid by Albanian terrorists/KLA to write this (especially since it is also pro-NATO).
pre 15 godina
Avi@4. Serbia can look to the future and have prosperity without giving up on Kosovo. Why do you think Serbia needs to give Kosovo away to have that?
A bully telling the victim to give his lunch money to him if he wants to avoid his face being bashed in.
You can't have both. A face and your money. If the victim stands up to the bully he certainly can.
Serbia should not be afraid of the bully. They got one shot in (bombing of Serbia) but they will not get another. Serbia has powerful friends now.
pre 15 godina
"And for those that think that US is nervous about Serbia's initiative, ask yourself this question: "Is really the elephant afraid of the mouse?"
(miri, 10 September 2008 15:20) "
But miri!!! the elephant is supposed to be afraid of the mouse according to folklore!
Go to any search engine and check this out! Do visit this linke too! http://www.sciencesurvivalblog.com/wp-content/uploads/2008/06/elephant_mouse.jpg
(I'm chuckling as I write)
pre 15 godina
Munter's comments only underscore the complete disdain that the U.S. establishment holds for any form of legal system in which it does not pick all of the judges.
There could also be no greater contrast than the one between Munter, who enthusiastically undermines Serbian national rights and talks down to the entire nation, and former Canadian ambassador James Bissett who had the courage to oppose his own government and testify in defense of President Slobodan Milosevic as well as actively defending Serbia's rights to Kosovo. Bissett deserves a medal from Serbia, Munter should be sent home.
Obviously, this issue is a Catch-22 situation for the U.S. If Serbia wins at the ICJ, the U.S. theft of Kosovo fails instantly. If Serbia fails at the ICJ, it will nevertheless continue to seek to return Serbs to Kosovo by other means, while a legal precedent will be set for the detatching of various pro-Russian enclaves from countries bordering Russia as well as for the eventual separation of majority Hispanic areas from the U.S. southwest. The U.S. loses either way.
The most interesting question now is whether the ICJ legal challenge is the last measure that will be pursued by Jeremic or the opening of a new round of much more practical efforts. If the appeal to the court is not followed up by other actions, Jeremic would effectively be shelving the issue for a number of years (awaiting a ruling), allowing the Albanian terror leadership to consolidate their regime in Kosovo.
To be effective, any Serbian initiative at the ICJ must be followed up by a continuing expansion of the official Serbian government presence in Kosovo, including the opening of government offices, and a large scale financial and political investment in returning Serbian people to the region, led by members of the government themselves.
The clock is ticking down until we finally see whether Jeremic will match his words about Kosovo with support for real action on the ground aimed at first securing and then expanding the Serbian presence in Serbia's Kosovo province.
We should all watch closely.
John Bosnitch
john.b@imcnews.com
pre 15 godina
He said that American and other foreign investors would come to Serbia only if it continued its road towards the EU and achieved stability.
So we need to work on achieving stability while our Albanians friends are threatening with wars and instability if they don't get evrything they want and, I'm not sure if Kosovo is all they wanted they might come to Nis now saying that its rightfully theirs because Nish means One in Albanian.
pre 15 godina
Alban,
You and other Albanians who post here should first of all stick to the subject of the article you are commenting on (B92 can also act as a filter in this respect and should take some responsibility). Your link brings us to books about rape and rape victims. Very sad and serious subjects that apparently deserve more attention than they get and are unfortunately a problem in all societies. However, that is not the subject that is being discussed here (it was about comments made by Munter on the ICJ case by Serbia against the illegal UDI). I do not care that Sells is part Serb (what is (are) the other part(s)?) and that he did not like the socialist party policies of the 1990's. He may view himself more Muslim than part Serb. I did not see any statistics so why did you refer to this? If this was such a real issues your US masters would have tried to use it in their anti-Serbia campaigns, but they did not (maybe for some senseable reason). By the way, I do not believe any Western political statistics for it is always presented without prove (which makes it more propaganda). Grow up and take part in constructive and mature discussions or else spare us you immature comments and post them on Albanian sites.
pre 15 godina
Just a week ago Inner City Press reported that the US had not yet decided how they would vote on the Serb resolution. Has this changed?
See:
http://www.innercitypress.com/icj1serbia090508.html
pre 15 godina
It is hard to believe ! Outrageous behaviour of this mr.USA! How can he even dare to push Serbia to withdraw the legal request? USA is an outlaw.What a shame,,,I hope Serbia will expell this ambasador home to his «freedom» land.Let Serbia accept any help from outside but never to let the americans to step even in that land,after bombing 78 days civilian infrastrucrure,robed the state's heart and now they offer a cookie for not seeking the justice! I have no words! So frustrating.Now there is no doubt the USA became the world's gangster.
pre 15 godina
[quote]once the ICJ nulify the kosovo UDI.[/quote]
While I support Serbia's ICJ initiative for it's symbolic value, it's sad to see people's false hopes and basically misunderstandings about what the ICJ is and what its mandate is.
The ICJ has no power to "nullify" anything.
Actually, I could have put a period after "power" in the last sentence and left it at that.
Let me try to explain it as best I understand it.
The ICJ is an advisory body of the UN General Assembly – another powerless body.
The UN General Assembly members can vote to place a question or matter before the ICJ. This is what Serbia is endeavouring at the present moment – to place on the agenda of the UNGA to vote on the matter to send the question of Kosovo’s UDI to the ICJ.
The ICJ then comes up with a position on the matter. Likely, the ICJ will rule in Serbia’s favour.
The ICJ then returns its position to the UNGA.
The UNGA can the, based on the position of the ICJ, state a position on the matter.
The UNGA can then table the motion before the UN Security Council (the only organ of the UN that has any ability to actually do anything).
The UNSC will then do nothing. Never. The USA, the main sponsor of Kosovo’s UDI will veto any attempt to even bring the issue up.
In short – the ICJ will rule in Serbia’s favour. Nothing practical will ever come of it.
So please, I say this because I love Serbia and want Serbia to succeed, don’t take this as some sort of attack. It simply pains me to see people living in some kind of fantasy world thinking that the ICJ can “nullify” anything.
Respectfully, Danilo
pre 15 godina
While at ICJ the Serbia should seek War Crime charges against Holbrooke for targeting civilians in the NATO bombings. Perhaps all the millions he is making in consulting fees from Saudis as a reward for Kosovo ought to be distributed as compensation to Kosovo Serb victims.
pre 15 godina
Serbia has every right for the ICJ to check into the legality of Kosovo's declared independence. Is the USA embarrassed by this?
pre 15 godina
THE PEOPLE OF SERBIA WANT WHAT WAS TAKEN FROM THEM BY THE USA KOSOVO!!!!!!!!!
pre 15 godina
Danilo in Vancouver:
Agree with all you've said save this:
> Nothing practical will ever come of it.
Wrote this in July:
> As to the 'effectiveness' of a ruling against the UDI, while a US veto ensures against UN intervention, veto does not negate negative impact of such with regard to future recognition from currently uncommitted nations.
Still think it applies only more so given the russian intervention in Georgia.
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