"Kosovo, S. Ossetia hugely different"

Come on, of course these cases are different. Kosovo beings with a K, South Ossetia with an S and Abkhazia with an A so how can there be any parallels?

Also, in the alphabet they have 9 and 7 entirely different letters inbetween them while S is the shape of a snake, A is more of a pyramid shape and K is a little more difficult to describe but if you turn it on its side, you can say it has the shape of basin.

And besides, the US and EU said Kosovo is unique, so there you go, it is all final.

They are helpless as
EU and middle Asia are
slipping away from them.

They tasted their first defeat in Georgia, and they are feeling damn ugly about it.

He added that the process which led to Kosovo independence was "based on international law, including the UN Security Council Resolution 1244", which that is not the case with the Russia recognition of the seceded Georgian republics.

How so? Please enlighten us. It is one thing to say that Kosovo is unique and now the independence was based on res 1244, but explain how is going to be much more difficult.

Roderick Moore!! dont misled us!! we all know that kosovo had already become a "precedent" thats why there was an absent of resolution between georgia, abkhazia & south ossetia. and other such incident happened in other parts of the world.

And we all know that most of these small countries who recognized the kosovo UDI are a result of "massive bullying" / "pressure" by the US, UK, France & Germany

SO STOP THIS NONSENSE CLAIMED THAT YOUR MAKING IN THE MEDIA.

if an american official says kosovo-"independence" is based on international law UNSC 1244... it actually shows how little justification there really is - literally no justification at all.

given that he has to make statements like the one above, Mr. Moore got a thankless task in Montenegro... :)

So - according to the US embassador - if Russia persuades some more countries to recognise S. Ossetia and Abkhazia then the recognition is according to international law??

I like the logic about "international law" the americans "allies" have. Persuade some of your friendly countries (puppet- states the better...) to follow you on your illegal acts and then you go according to "international law"!!

Don't persuade so many friendly countries to follow you and then you are against of "international law"!

This implementation of "international law" has made the americans the most hated country in the world today.

"Translation" of international law according to our power and interests only. The hypocrisy of the americans is more than provocative. It is totally outstanding.

George Orwell introduced us to slogans such as 'war is peace, 'freedom is slavery', and 'ignorance is strength'. Now we have more Newspeak coming from Roderick Moore in the form of 'Kosovo is unique'.

Saying that Kosovo Albanians can claim independence based on "international law" is a total disgrace for the US. It's more "lie in your face diplomacy", "we will make up stuff as we go, to suit agenda " policy. This is total hypocracy.

The average US citizen is hugely uninformed about the Kosovo situation. (I know, I am a US citizen & when I explain the history to people they just blink and say "I didn't know that".)As another poster suggested, real information needs to be reported in a clear and thoughtful way in major US publications. Serbia needs to learn how to use the media to it's benefit.

"...know, I am a US citizen & when I explain the history to people they just blink and say "I didn't know that""

And what is that history Mr. Patrik? That serbs came from Siberia and conquered Balkans?
Or are you talking about recent history, when Serbs tried to conquer all the ex-republic of Yugoslavia as well as cleaning Kosova from its inhabitants!!

Is this guy the Ambassador to Montenegro or Kosovo? Work within your jurisdiction, man. If you're in love with Kosovo so much, switch positions.

Patrik, I as a US citizen can easily concur with you over the lack of information Americans get over Kosovo, and will continue to get, despite what the Albanians here want to believe. Whenever something is reported, it's incredibly sanitized for our consumption because God forbid the United States should ever support any side that isn't morally right. It's almost pathetic to listen to people like Moore, Holbrooke, and other paid spokesmen to sell this parastate to the rest of the world. It's even worse when day after day we get the same worn out garbage by these guys who are still trying to say that Kosovo is so much more different than SO, Ab, or any other neo-colonial Instant Oatmeal country.

@ Predictor:

You wrote - "because theUS is a big influential country and would never allow that its citizens are misinformed by some other one sided information agencies"

You can't be serious!

Some of the Albanian posters on this site seem to be delusional that the US is some kind of a Santa Claus figure.

"The US wouldn't let it's citizens be misinformed"?????

I am absolutely stunned by that comment.

Here's a link I posted a while ago - perhaps it is a good idea to post it again.

http://www.studentsfororwell.org/

"'Russia is, so far, the only country in the world to recognize the two republics, while several dozen countries have recognized Kosovo, among them the vast majority of EU member states and several neighboring countries,' Moore was quoted as saying. "

Not sure if Mr. Moore has been keeping up with current events, but Nicaragua recognized South Ossetia's and Abkhazia's independence on 4. September: http://www.iht.com/articles/2008/09/04/america/georgia.php

The US/NATO/EU strategy is as follows: repetition (ad nauseum) that Kosovo is a "unique case" (this term is an oxymoron, by the way) will in fact make it so. None of those repeating it however have in fact agreed on the grounds for this argument, or if they have, the do not actually lay them out, probably because it would present a target for those willing and able to destroy it. The strategy is: just repeat it.

Unfortunately, and to the detriment of international law as well as human rights and true post-colonial struggles, this strategy works, because it convinces the vast majority by constraining their field of discussion; "if all of the big smart guys are saying this, then I guess thats what it is." Disagreeing with the cool kids consensus is never easy, so the uninformed or less brave rarely do so, and voila! Repetition turns into fact.

The Serbian gov't has realized this, and has smartly sent Jeremic on the big world "no its not" tour. But the next step would be to take it higher on the PR scale - full page ads and concise, smart arguments in the NY Times, Financial Times, Guardian, Washington Post, etc. would do a great deal.

“Kosovo is a sui generis and that it does not represent a precedent for other separatist movements around the world for many reasons,” the Roderick Moore said.

Please Mr Moore... This frase starts to get boring regardless of how many times you will say it. Its not like you are convincing anyone.

I am sure that the US will find another "unique" case pretty soon to support their independence. Just remember the massive american support for Saddam Hussein until he screwed up and invaded Kuwait.

Does he knows, when already speaking about the resolution 1244 and international law, that resolution 1244 still runs and very much valid. That resolution hasn’t been abolished yet and/or replaced by another resolution which would not claim Kosovo as Serbian province.

What do you think Mr, why those so called USA’s diplomats are threatening Serbia with the EU (none) membership if Serbia does not recognise Kosovo? If it was all so legal, and the process went under norms of international law, why is then so necessary for Serbia to recognise its province, why if you think that everything is done according the law? But sure, you know that your cheap talk makes no sense and that Serbia has all rights to claim its province as long as the resolution 1244 is in force, even after 100 years.
Sure you are aware of this and that is why you are so desperate to have Belgrade’s signature on independence.

“The average US citizen is hugely uninformed about the Kosovo situation.”

(Patrik, 8 September 2008 15:07)
Patrik (or better, Petre), in other words you wanted to say that the US citizens are not poisoned with Serbia information. Of course they are not, because theUS is a big influential country and would never allow that its citizens are misinformed by some other one sided information agencies such are almost all agencies in Serbia, with RTS and Politika leading.

The independence declaration was based and MENTIONES teh resolution 1244.

The same resolution was foreseeing international supervised negotiations about final status without any PREJUDICE or limitations.

During the negotiations Serbia UNILATERALLY changed her constitution and put Kosova in her legal frame. Actually slammed the door in face to the international community and to Kosovars.

The arrogance paid the declaration after about 2 years on feb. 17th 2008.

The 6 point cease fire agreement brokered by France was foreseeing the internationally supervised negotiations about the final status of the SO and Abkhazia too.

Russia singed it.

And the very next day BROKE it by unilaterally recognising those two entities. Arrogance ate the glance.
However, this would not be a problem if they would not incorporate them in their (Russian) national borders as no other country will ever recognise them.

I don't think Mr.Moore knows where on the map is Kosovo.. at least I know for sure here in NAmerica the americans more than 80% don't know where is Canada! Is very easy to make the people to believe that the black is white.And realy the difference between Kosovo and SO and is huge:Kosovo was overwelmed by albanians in last 50-60 years, ossetians and abhazians lived on their land!Stalin tried to root them out but didn't work well.So Mr. Moore in east europe is a proverb:shut-up and you'll stay smart!

res 1244 does indeed say kosovo is an integral part of what was left of yugo for a not definite period,but the res 1244 did not garanty serbia it would keep kosovo as before,and also the people of kosovo would have a say about their own future,and they did have a say on the 17/02/2008

Ben you seem to be not aware of facts:
1. The Serbian constitution changed before engotiations.
2. It did not change anything about Kosovo, it just said a seperate constiutional docuemtn will regulate Kosovo's status -- i.e. the results of negotiations.
3. Furthermore the DPRY, SFRY, FRY, SCG, and republic constiutions of Serbia since WWII have always mentioned Kosovo as part of Serbia.

"There is nothing in 1244 that says it's Serbia.'

Albin is clearly spreading more propagana. UN 1244 specificaly mentions that KOSOVO is part of Yugoslavia which was the name of the country at that time. Serbia is now recognized as the LEGAL SUCCESSOR STATE to Yugoslavia (that is why Serbia never had to apply for a new UN seat) which means that all international
agreements made with YUGOSLAVIA now apply to exclusively to SERBIA.
This includes UN resolution 1244. This has been confirmed by the UN repeatedly. Therefore, everywhere that UN. Resolution 1244 mentions Yugoslavia, it now refers
to SERBIA.

Furthermore, UN Res. 1244
specifically states that Kosovo's status can only be changed via a decision from the UNSC --- which never happened. Therefore the UDI (really a UDD) from the KLA puppet government in Prostina is illegal, thus Kosovo remains part of Serbia in the eyes of international law.

Alban, these are the facts. I see no reason why you insist on distorting the truth. Kosovo is legally part of SERBIA via resolution 1244.

Black is white and white is black

Yaroslav,
If you want to go the legal route:

1244 does NOT mention Kosova as part of Serbia. It mentions it as part of Yugo and only in the preamble, which is not legally binding. Yugoslavia is gone anyway so its territorial integrity cannot be maintained as said in 1244. Technically, Serbs started a war, NATO joined against them, Serbs eventually gave up and agreed to the terms of the winner. There is nothing in 1244 that says it's Serbia.

The independence declaration was based and MENTIONES teh resolution 1244.

The same resolution was foreseeing international supervised negotiations about final status without any PREJUDICE or limitations.

During the negotiations Serbia UNILATERALLY changed her constitution and put Kosova in her legal frame. Actually slammed the door in face to the international community and to Kosovars.

The arrogance paid the declaration after about 2 years on feb. 17th 2008.

The 6 point cease fire agreement brokered by France was foreseeing the internationally supervised negotiations about the final status of the SO and Abkhazia too.

Russia singed it.

And the very next day BROKE it by unilaterally recognising those two entities. Arrogance ate the glance.
However, this would not be a problem if they would not incorporate them in their (Russian) national borders as no other country will ever recognise them.

"...know, I am a US citizen & when I explain the history to people they just blink and say "I didn't know that""

And what is that history Mr. Patrik? That serbs came from Siberia and conquered Balkans?
Or are you talking about recent history, when Serbs tried to conquer all the ex-republic of Yugoslavia as well as cleaning Kosova from its inhabitants!!

res 1244 does indeed say kosovo is an integral part of what was left of yugo for a not definite period,but the res 1244 did not garanty serbia it would keep kosovo as before,and also the people of kosovo would have a say about their own future,and they did have a say on the 17/02/2008

“The average US citizen is hugely uninformed about the Kosovo situation.”

(Patrik, 8 September 2008 15:07)
Patrik (or better, Petre), in other words you wanted to say that the US citizens are not poisoned with Serbia information. Of course they are not, because theUS is a big influential country and would never allow that its citizens are misinformed by some other one sided information agencies such are almost all agencies in Serbia, with RTS and Politika leading.

George Orwell introduced us to slogans such as 'war is peace, 'freedom is slavery', and 'ignorance is strength'. Now we have more Newspeak coming from Roderick Moore in the form of 'Kosovo is unique'.

He added that the process which led to Kosovo independence was "based on international law, including the UN Security Council Resolution 1244", which that is not the case with the Russia recognition of the seceded Georgian republics.

How so? Please enlighten us. It is one thing to say that Kosovo is unique and now the independence was based on res 1244, but explain how is going to be much more difficult.

Come on, of course these cases are different. Kosovo beings with a K, South Ossetia with an S and Abkhazia with an A so how can there be any parallels?

Also, in the alphabet they have 9 and 7 entirely different letters inbetween them while S is the shape of a snake, A is more of a pyramid shape and K is a little more difficult to describe but if you turn it on its side, you can say it has the shape of basin.

And besides, the US and EU said Kosovo is unique, so there you go, it is all final.

They are helpless as
EU and middle Asia are
slipping away from them.

They tasted their first defeat in Georgia, and they are feeling damn ugly about it.

Roderick Moore!! dont misled us!! we all know that kosovo had already become a "precedent" thats why there was an absent of resolution between georgia, abkhazia & south ossetia. and other such incident happened in other parts of the world.

And we all know that most of these small countries who recognized the kosovo UDI are a result of "massive bullying" / "pressure" by the US, UK, France & Germany

SO STOP THIS NONSENSE CLAIMED THAT YOUR MAKING IN THE MEDIA.

if an american official says kosovo-"independence" is based on international law UNSC 1244... it actually shows how little justification there really is - literally no justification at all.

given that he has to make statements like the one above, Mr. Moore got a thankless task in Montenegro... :)

"'Russia is, so far, the only country in the world to recognize the two republics, while several dozen countries have recognized Kosovo, among them the vast majority of EU member states and several neighboring countries,' Moore was quoted as saying. "

Not sure if Mr. Moore has been keeping up with current events, but Nicaragua recognized South Ossetia's and Abkhazia's independence on 4. September: http://www.iht.com/articles/2008/09/04/america/georgia.php

The US/NATO/EU strategy is as follows: repetition (ad nauseum) that Kosovo is a "unique case" (this term is an oxymoron, by the way) will in fact make it so. None of those repeating it however have in fact agreed on the grounds for this argument, or if they have, the do not actually lay them out, probably because it would present a target for those willing and able to destroy it. The strategy is: just repeat it.

Unfortunately, and to the detriment of international law as well as human rights and true post-colonial struggles, this strategy works, because it convinces the vast majority by constraining their field of discussion; "if all of the big smart guys are saying this, then I guess thats what it is." Disagreeing with the cool kids consensus is never easy, so the uninformed or less brave rarely do so, and voila! Repetition turns into fact.

The Serbian gov't has realized this, and has smartly sent Jeremic on the big world "no its not" tour. But the next step would be to take it higher on the PR scale - full page ads and concise, smart arguments in the NY Times, Financial Times, Guardian, Washington Post, etc. would do a great deal.

Saying that Kosovo Albanians can claim independence based on "international law" is a total disgrace for the US. It's more "lie in your face diplomacy", "we will make up stuff as we go, to suit agenda " policy. This is total hypocracy.

The average US citizen is hugely uninformed about the Kosovo situation. (I know, I am a US citizen & when I explain the history to people they just blink and say "I didn't know that".)As another poster suggested, real information needs to be reported in a clear and thoughtful way in major US publications. Serbia needs to learn how to use the media to it's benefit.

Does he knows, when already speaking about the resolution 1244 and international law, that resolution 1244 still runs and very much valid. That resolution hasn’t been abolished yet and/or replaced by another resolution which would not claim Kosovo as Serbian province.

What do you think Mr, why those so called USA’s diplomats are threatening Serbia with the EU (none) membership if Serbia does not recognise Kosovo? If it was all so legal, and the process went under norms of international law, why is then so necessary for Serbia to recognise its province, why if you think that everything is done according the law? But sure, you know that your cheap talk makes no sense and that Serbia has all rights to claim its province as long as the resolution 1244 is in force, even after 100 years.
Sure you are aware of this and that is why you are so desperate to have Belgrade’s signature on independence.

So - according to the US embassador - if Russia persuades some more countries to recognise S. Ossetia and Abkhazia then the recognition is according to international law??

I like the logic about "international law" the americans "allies" have. Persuade some of your friendly countries (puppet- states the better...) to follow you on your illegal acts and then you go according to "international law"!!

Don't persuade so many friendly countries to follow you and then you are against of "international law"!

This implementation of "international law" has made the americans the most hated country in the world today.

"Translation" of international law according to our power and interests only. The hypocrisy of the americans is more than provocative. It is totally outstanding.

“Kosovo is a sui generis and that it does not represent a precedent for other separatist movements around the world for many reasons,” the Roderick Moore said.

Please Mr Moore... This frase starts to get boring regardless of how many times you will say it. Its not like you are convincing anyone.

I am sure that the US will find another "unique" case pretty soon to support their independence. Just remember the massive american support for Saddam Hussein until he screwed up and invaded Kuwait.

Is this guy the Ambassador to Montenegro or Kosovo? Work within your jurisdiction, man. If you're in love with Kosovo so much, switch positions.

Patrik, I as a US citizen can easily concur with you over the lack of information Americans get over Kosovo, and will continue to get, despite what the Albanians here want to believe. Whenever something is reported, it's incredibly sanitized for our consumption because God forbid the United States should ever support any side that isn't morally right. It's almost pathetic to listen to people like Moore, Holbrooke, and other paid spokesmen to sell this parastate to the rest of the world. It's even worse when day after day we get the same worn out garbage by these guys who are still trying to say that Kosovo is so much more different than SO, Ab, or any other neo-colonial Instant Oatmeal country.

Black is white and white is black

@ Predictor:

You wrote - "because theUS is a big influential country and would never allow that its citizens are misinformed by some other one sided information agencies"

You can't be serious!

Some of the Albanian posters on this site seem to be delusional that the US is some kind of a Santa Claus figure.

"The US wouldn't let it's citizens be misinformed"?????

I am absolutely stunned by that comment.

Here's a link I posted a while ago - perhaps it is a good idea to post it again.

http://www.studentsfororwell.org/

Ben you seem to be not aware of facts:
1. The Serbian constitution changed before engotiations.
2. It did not change anything about Kosovo, it just said a seperate constiutional docuemtn will regulate Kosovo's status -- i.e. the results of negotiations.
3. Furthermore the DPRY, SFRY, FRY, SCG, and republic constiutions of Serbia since WWII have always mentioned Kosovo as part of Serbia.

Yaroslav,
If you want to go the legal route:

1244 does NOT mention Kosova as part of Serbia. It mentions it as part of Yugo and only in the preamble, which is not legally binding. Yugoslavia is gone anyway so its territorial integrity cannot be maintained as said in 1244. Technically, Serbs started a war, NATO joined against them, Serbs eventually gave up and agreed to the terms of the winner. There is nothing in 1244 that says it's Serbia.

I don't think Mr.Moore knows where on the map is Kosovo.. at least I know for sure here in NAmerica the americans more than 80% don't know where is Canada! Is very easy to make the people to believe that the black is white.And realy the difference between Kosovo and SO and is huge:Kosovo was overwelmed by albanians in last 50-60 years, ossetians and abhazians lived on their land!Stalin tried to root them out but didn't work well.So Mr. Moore in east europe is a proverb:shut-up and you'll stay smart!

"There is nothing in 1244 that says it's Serbia.'

Albin is clearly spreading more propagana. UN 1244 specificaly mentions that KOSOVO is part of Yugoslavia which was the name of the country at that time. Serbia is now recognized as the LEGAL SUCCESSOR STATE to Yugoslavia (that is why Serbia never had to apply for a new UN seat) which means that all international
agreements made with YUGOSLAVIA now apply to exclusively to SERBIA.
This includes UN resolution 1244. This has been confirmed by the UN repeatedly. Therefore, everywhere that UN. Resolution 1244 mentions Yugoslavia, it now refers
to SERBIA.

Furthermore, UN Res. 1244
specifically states that Kosovo's status can only be changed via a decision from the UNSC --- which never happened. Therefore the UDI (really a UDD) from the KLA puppet government in Prostina is illegal, thus Kosovo remains part of Serbia in the eyes of international law.

Alban, these are the facts. I see no reason why you insist on distorting the truth. Kosovo is legally part of SERBIA via resolution 1244.