Punishing Russia could hurt Europe, says Kouchner

Rote, as an educated American I would like to say that many of us know how brilliant Russian scientists,mathematicians and engineers are and we desire the best relations with the people of your country.Millions of Americans are of Russian ethnicity/heritage and have contributed a lot to this country so there is no need for any animosity between our respective peoples.On the other hand,states do not have friends(only interests)but our common interests far outweigh our differences.The American eagle should never come in the bear's backyard but unfortunately there are idiots who make up the military-industrial complex who need enemies to justify their huge spending but risking any kind of confrontation between our soldiers because of the actions of a fool in Tbilisi is insane to put it mildly.As far as any Jew/Israeli helping the criminal regime in Tbilisi these individuals are plain old mercenaries and in no way represent the overall Jewish community.Putin is very generous for not kicking out the million Georgians who live and work in Russia because he understands that it is not the average Georgian who seeks conflict with Russians.How many people even know that a million Georgians or Jews live happily in Russia?The previous commentator who you refer to is not a Jew just a pretend to know it all uneducated something or other who is probably a member of the Hungarian fascist movement.Shalom from a real American.

What sanctions do you want against the country supplying you? You want us to cut off its atmospheric gases?"

-Finally some common sense coming from this man. Imposing sanctions on Russia would be shooting in own foot.

Surely UK as a the worse USA’s satellite in Europe (after Poland), would be pleased to push more decisively on imposing sanctions to Russia, but thanks god that some common sense prevails in France and Germany.

What punishment are they talking about ! With the same success they can pick out their right eyes ! Then they can at least blame Russia that we have one eyed partners in Europe ...

You will find no other sample that so many idiots gather in one place. But it happens each time when European elites meet together under NATO , EU or any other trade mark.

I respect the Americans standing firm on the ruling the world idea. But their EU back vockals I accept just like cattle following the Yanks to the meat plant. Good journey !

Joe

Shalom !

How could you write this :" There is just one super power, the USA ..." ?

Looks like last time you read a newspaper was a decade ago ! With over 6% of unemployment you have enough time for self education. Please don't miss the chance because the things will run even worse. USA IS A BANCRUPT NOT ONLY IN FINANCES BUT IN EVERYTHING ELSE. I enjoy reading news from the USA.

Russia is the Energy Superpower the USA cannot even dream of ! Also you breathe untill the USA behaves the way we like it. But there's no need to launch a war. During the year to come your "empire" will stop to exist under the press of your debts.

I have to inform you also that the famous concert in Tshinval led by the great Ossetian director GERGIEV was arranged in the JEWISH part of the town. As a Jew you have to know that the Jewish houses here were destroyed by Georgian tanks modernized by Israel with two Israeli Generals among the attacking Georgian troops. What a shame !

Rolerkoster, this article is about the EU and Russia, yet you focus on Serbia, you obviously have a serbian obsession. Anyway, I am so glad that Russia has a huge bargaining chip at its disposal, otherwise they would be another US/EU colony. It's all about the oil, sadly to say. What do you think Georgia is all about. It's about a stinking pipeline that will go through it from the Black Sea. The "support democracy" BS that DC preaches is so fake and transparent. No one is buying anymore. Wherever you see Dick Cheney appear, you can be sure that an oily dollar is involved. Thank God the world has more than one super-power again..

"Russia will lose some hot air and become much sober." Joe,
If the US had power they would have attacked Russia a big time by now. So, be quite as no many normal people want WWIII. Also, US soldiers have their customs and claim to be the best but it is so false. They would run awat like little mice if they fight with Russians. Just think about drafting US people and Russians...And Russia never lost a war. How about US (Vietnam, Korea, Iraq,etc etc). US lost just little wars, they did not dare envade Servbia either. So it is all glamor and Hollywood.Also, Russia's oil export contributes less than 10% of the GDP. So, if oil goes down it would not be like you really said. And lastly Yankes know that Russia has beter weapons even though Yanke's budget is a way above Russians. But it is not all about money. I may sound like a pro Russian but these are the facts. Please dont read CNN and FOX when you want to learn history.

Without investments of the West and after running out of oil and gas, Russia will fall back ... The only thing we'll have to do is blocking the money they have on their accounts abroad."

Strange as you are ! Joe claiming you have a Superpower on your side and now you are offering to rob the Russians only because you suppose that their money is stolen from Russia ! Also you say that this is the only thing you can do to undermine Russia. But the problem is that you cannot afford even this coz Russia's backstrike will be devastating for the West.

I am amused when you talk of the investments you can deprive Russia of. Don't you know that the West is no longer an exporter but an importer of money. And Russia became one of the biggest donors of the West. So the only way you can harm Russia is to commit suiside by a nuclear attack at Russia. 2500 Russian missiles carrying about 10 000 nuclear charges are able to devastate twice all NATO members and all NATO candidates during one day. So stagnating West have to coexist with gaining force Russia.

By the way once you clicked the web what ROTE KAPELLE means you could have guessed that I am a Russian. Worse than that I live in Moscow and can witness how fast the things change for better. We are a united nation and we can see much more problems to be solved here than you can even imagine.

P.S. Thanks for the link. To my shame the story sounds true so here I agree with you. We are not Saints ... That's why annual foreign investments to Russian economy this year are expected to be as low as 40 Bln USD against 73 Bln last year.

Careful !

Rote,

Following your comment #7 I should really greet you Shalom. Anyway it is not the first time that somebody calls me a Jew. Two years ago before a Hungarian site was shut down Hungarian right extremists used to call me Jewish and described (not in nice terms) how my father looked like. On the other extrem the commentator #10 - who for some strange reason always start to tell that he is "educated" never fails to label me a kind of fascist. Seeing your comment I knew that he will hurry to tell you that I am not from the same religion and I am not educated like he is.
But the funniest and most contradictory thing came in comment #14. For him I am a marxist-leninist.
After these different labels on me I will inform my wife and warn her not be surprised if tonight - out of amusement - I am loughing loud.
Dear Rote I am sure that in the future you and I will frequently agree to disagree. There is nothing wrong with it as long as it is done in a civilized way.
For today Dobro vecer or dobro noc.

Joe

i must disagree with you on the US the only super power. Russia, China and India are growing powers.

The US and UK are debt ridden where Russia has spare cash gained from oil and gas known as the stabilization fund. The US system is set up on the Petro Dollar for example OPEC trade in American Dollars which goes through New York. If the oil countries decided to use eg. the Euro the US would effectively go bankrupt an example of this is where Saddam and his weapons of mass destruction, he had one, he threatened to sell oil in Euros. Same with Iran they have threatened the same. The petro dollar system is abit like the Atlantic heat conveyour if it fails we all go cold.

Military wise China has the biggest armed forces followed by the US, India then Russia. As for Nukes in 2005 the US had a stock pile of Approx 10K missles while Russia it's nearly 17K missiles.

I doubt in realality if Russia and EU really want sanctions especially over a little country like Georgia.

While the UK demands a tougher stance we dont depend on gas and oil as much as Germany or France.

Finally the biggest threat to world peace is G W Bush thank god his term is nearly oveIts funny the US stands for freedom, independence etc but it acts like Brition did in the 18th and 19th centuary. All empires come to an end Joe.

papajohn,

There is just one super power, the USA. Maybe there will be a second, China after a while. But Russia, despite the current oil revenue can never be a super power again. For that its relatively limited industrial base and a mid-size population of some 145 million is just not enough. Also if the oil price is dropping further let say to 80 dollars (some British expect 40 dollars, what I consider unrealistic) you will see how fast bellicose Russia will lose some hot air and become much sober.

Rote Kapelle,

Joe is actually a Hungarian who lives (mostly) in USA and is American, too. Joe, like many Hungarians in American immigration is above all anti-Russian for Soviet Union's role in 1956 tragedy. Nevermind, that Nikita Hruschyov was Ukrainian and the root cause was due a Georgian dictator, Dzhugashvili (also known as Stalin). It's all Russian fault, no doubt.

Don't confuse him with Robert-O from Frisco, a self-proclaimed "moderate Zionist" who is also an "anti-nationalist" (being a self-proclaimed Zionist it's a twist, isn't it?), violently and above all an "anti-Serb".

I know from my friends, 99.99% of Israelis are supporting Serbs, so is the Russian-Jewish immigration in the States. Sorry to say, but the anti-Serb camp has some really funny cases.

I strongly suspect, both above cases are Serb-haters "by proxy": they are above all anti-Russians for different reasons (1956 in one case and for both a falsely understood American patriotism). Both in their zeal became pretty close to support marxists-leninists.

Isn't it odd? Pursue an anti-Russian and anti-Serbian agenda far enough and you can become a true communist.

Otherwiset I strongly disagree with putin's style, I find him very cold-blooded, cynical and not caring about own people and own allies. See his reaction to the tragedy of Kursk submarine - I never will forgive him. He is a KGB-automat, first extremely well pre-programmed, than extremely corrupted. McCain is the worst answer for him. putin (all small like nemecsek) should be marginized by defusing conflicts. Challenging him would increase his influence.

Ataman,

I basically supported and support the Kosovo Albanian independence cause and not individual politicians. Since practically all current politicians in Central European countries used to be commi party members or members of the youth communist org. what count for me is their stand today. What they represent today!!!
There are extremely few like me who was not even in the youth organization like KISZ in Hungary.
Look even Angela Merkel was in the East German Communist Youth Organization. So for you going back to Thraci's student years appears like a completely useless obsession.
As a Russian you grew up in Hungary. You claimed that you were never a commi. I am however just wondering if for "useful" reasons like to ensure entry into the university you were a KISZ member like so many others.

Shalom.

luciano,

Shalom aleihem !

I like your comments because they are reasonable and pragmatic. This is what most of us are lacking. Russia seeks no confrontation but we have very poor choice : either we obey the US or there will be a kind of a Cold War. Out of the two Russia chooses new confrontation. As simple as that.

Look what is happening now : the US sents it’s fleet to our shores in the Black Sea and in response we send our fleet to the Caribean … It’s a very dangerous development especially now that the agony of the US economy and finance became evident and the loss of American influence became inevitable.

My strategic partner’s mother is a Jew and it makes no problems. We just have more jokes over Russians and the Jews. In between we are enlarging our plant and buying new production lines to launch new products. In general Jews are not so out of mind Rusophobes as Poles or mini Balts.

Yes Israel plays a negative role in anti Russian policy of the USA and that’s why they modernized Georgian tanks that later destroyed the Jewish part of Tshinval town. They also helped to train the Georgian “army” and supplied them with some armaments. Yet Israel must be very reluctant to do all this because Russia can easily shift the balance in the Middle East by supplying anti aircraft missiles to Syria and Iran. And it will no doubt put an end to the Israeli superiority in the air.



dave (UK)

Every year Russia have 8-9 new submarines able to carry upto 16 BULAVA missiles with 10 nuclear charges in each. This type of missiles is totally invincible for they can not only put false targets but change their route , entering the atmosphere and returning back to the space. Besides they move twice faster than any American missile. This month YURI DOLGORUKY submarine will enter our fleet…

We all dislike such developments but surrounded by the US puppet regimes in Bulgaria , Romania , Ukraine , Georgia , Korea , Japan , Poland , Lithuania ect. we have no other choice but to guarantee the White House that we can any time turn it into Black Ashes.

Our generals as I heard do not plan a direct attack at the UK. They plan to blow up a couple of thermonuclear 50 Megaton bombs in the sea close to the islands. They say it will be enough to stop the war UK is launching against us during last 200 years. In any case it’s not our choice. We prefer peace and cooperation.


Ataman

As for the Joe and Hungary of 1956 we should estimate the events from the logic and in the context of that time. And if you do so you will see that USSR has stopped the already started civil war between Hungarian Communists and those who hated them. Before we invaded they had killed about 2500 of each other.

Very little is said that almost the same time France , UK , Belgium ,USA and Holland has arranged massacres in Asia and Africa where poor colored peoples suffered hundred times more losses than those in Hungary.


Cheers all !

Rote Kapelle,

this is exactly the real Russian attitude that scares nations (Poland, Finland, Hungary, Georgia, Germany, Romania to name a few) that were already looted, raped by uncivilised russian soldiers and had a Russian army to keep them quiet for decades, while USSR slowly but surely destroyed their economies and exploited their lands.

Now, here you (they) go again, reasoning that sovereign nations, such as Ukraine, Georgia, formerly the Baltic states are their buffer zones??

This miserable KGB guy is out of his mind, and unfortunately, poor Russians are happy to applaud, thinking back with nostalgy to the "good old days". They seem to forget they had to queue for white bread which was available only once a week (I was in that line myself in 1983 in Moscow, so I am not inventing). Now as a little prosperity is visible, Russians follow their "father figure" whatever he is doing, hunting for Tigers, or threatening to start a new cold war.

Poor Serbians, out of despair turned to Russia, but fell out of favour as they have served Russian interest and no longer important.

I agree with Rolerkoster, EU is finally finding its common voice luckily and try to counter ballance the influence of USA and try to find defense against an increasingly agressive Russia.

The diplomacy of the EU has been a proof of a completely new quality in dealing with conflicts. as an EU citizen I am very proud on the unity proven by all member states. EU started with deescalation of the conflict at once - and they respect Russia as partner and neighbour, while others were already lost in primitive cold war scenarios.

EU needs no polarisation, it stands on her own feet. it's clear and united stance has become an important factor for security and stability in the conflict region as well as on global level.

I really doubt, that Serbia would be able for to join such a united stance at the moment. anyway: Serbia is one of the profiteers of peace and stability in Europe - and history shows, that these are the times, when prosperity and welfare are developing for all.

come out from the political trenches of the past, Serbia, solve your unsolved conflicts inside the country and with your neighbours. start to prosper in peace, Serbia

Why should we be hurt by doing business with Russia? They are hurting us every time, because of the enormous corruption and mafia practises going up into the highest ranks. I often wrote about it, but mostly the B92 redaction were not prepared to print it.
Dear 'Rote Kapelle', read this article out of the Guardian of today to show , how your favorite Russia deals in business: http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2008/sep/07/russia/
Without investments of the West and after running out of oil and gas, Russia will fall back. At that time not only their already poor citizens will be poor, also the ones that are filling up their pockets now. The only thing we'll have to do is blocking the money they have on their accounts abroad.
That's why for the moment Kouchner might be considerate, but on the long term the danger lays on the Russian side.

For those who like to read some more about Russia's perspectives seen by a. Luke Harding in Moscow, the Guardian, 6.9.2008
http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2008/sep/06/russia.globaleconomy; or by Andrei Piontkovsky, a Russian analyst:
http://search.japantimes.co.jp/cgi-bin/eo20080903a1.html

More I don't want to say too much myself, only that some of you have a very rosy immage of this country, where you never have been

Cees,

Yes most of the Western investors wind up like Browder. They were too naive to invest in a country, where corruption is one of the biggest in the whole world. I have two Russian collegues, who tell me horror stories about it.
Western investors finally start to realize that they could lose all their investment. They withdrew 20-25 billion dollars lately. This is just the beginning. Using your words " whithout investments of the West and after running out of oil and gas" Russia will have the look of a very tame, tootless bear. It will look like the bear (only the skin) on the floor of a hotel I stopped by in Central Europe.

Ataman, you believe that Joe is a Hungarian? :)

well, even if so, his one-eyed analyses often lack the basic knowledge in regard to the kosovo-issue, so, who cares anyway? ...last but not least, whether he´s jewish, christian or whatever ...shouldn´t be of any relevance, though.

To Joe,

Of course you are not a Marxist-Leninist and I never said that. But you support SOME of them (i.e. Marxists-Leninists) actively with almost every your word. So does Robert-O.

Don't believe? Here you go:

http://tinyurl.com/5c3c73
http://tinyurl.com/5kj92a

This is not so funny, unfortunately.

As it stay in Wiki:

"By 1993, Thaçi joined the Albanian political emigration group in Switzerland, where he also pursued postgraduate studies at the University of Zurich in the history and international relations departments. There he became one of the founders of the People's Movement of Kosovo (LPK), a Marxist-Leninist political party devoted to Albanian popular nationalism."

Any objections to that?


To Rote Kapelle:

The events in 1956 have no excuse for USSR. They were extremely harmful and this is why there are so many people like Joe in Hungary: not just extremely anti-Russian, but even anti-Russian-by-proxy (i.e. anti-Serbian). This is despite the proven fact, the Hungarian minority has much better rights in Serbia than in any of it's neighbors.

The twist: who 1956 ordered the Soviet troops to crush the uprising was Ukrainian (Hruschyov) and the Hungarian minority's in Ukraine can only dream about being in Serbia. But we don't hear that much about this lately: Ukraine is "pro-Western", right?


It is also worth to judge the events of August 2008 and judge putin. saakashvili (all small) was clearly the initiator. But they got putin's "humanitarian bombing" all over Gruzia few days later. saakashvili declared, Gruzia is not in CIS anymore. Understand. But how you would comment this one:

From http://www.mza.ru - just look in the middle, precisely where "Информация о пропуске через государственную границу Российской Федерации с Азербайджанской республикой и Грузией" is. Read it and think about it. Basically, the citizens of non-CIS countries cannot cross the Russian-Azeri border anymore because of "Постановление Российской Федерации от 5 ноября 1999 года № 1223 «О мерах по предотвращению проникновения на территорию Российской Федерации»" begun to be applied. Why? Obviously, this is a cold-blooded kick to millions of mixed Georgian-Russian families, to Georgian migrant workers (are they spies, diversants, terrorists?) "Georgian Terrorist" precisely as not-existing like "Hungarian Terrorist" or "Serbian Terrorist" - it's not in the nature. Simply, that idiot suka-shvili gave an other SOB (putin) an opportunity to kick few million innocents - so putin did, of course. Now, the members of mixed families cannot cross by train or bus the Russian-Azeri border. They can, of course, cross the Ukrainian-Russian border, but all measure was done to make their travel more expensive and drain their pockets. What a shame, putin!

I basically supported and support the Kosovo Albanian independence cause and not individual politicians.
(Joe, 8 September 2008 16:32)

Who's interests that (in)DEPENDENCE does serve? :-/

Look even Angela Merkel was in the East German Communist Youth Organization. So for you going back to Thraci's student years
(Joe, 8 September 2008 16:32)

Let's compare Ms. Merkel with thaci.

Ms. Merkel: she was probably in FDJ because who wants to face ugly questions and confront STASI directly? KISZ was just that: an organization full of "politically correct" young people who just wanted not to stick out their head. You know precisely how it was: you stick out your head out of crowd, 1-2-3 and it's cut. Feel free to call her (Ms Merkel) or anyone here who is "old enough" merely cowards.

thaci: he did a bit more, than just singing few "politically correct" songs, wearing a red necktie and visiting the stupid obligatory Marxist course in the university: he FOUNDED A MARXIST-LENINIST PARTY.... WHILE IN SWITZERLAND.

Sorry Joe, this deed goes well beyond Merkel's FDJ (and possibly your KISZ) membership. ;)

What does represent thaci today is perfectly in synch with his Marxist-Leninist past.

Ataman,

You are pushing in an area, where you can not win. You were apparently a KISZ member. I wasn't!!! I have the moral high ground.
I left Hungary as a high school student and never had to sing "those politically correct songs". For me it does not matter who was singing them loud or less loud. You were ALL singing them. If I would be you I would not breg about it. I would be even ashamed to bring up the subject.

@ Joe.

Since your giving relating prices on oil to Russia's prosperity, i wanted to give everyone who reads this site my opinion. Since you perceive yourself as a business cognizant, I think you would know that throughout this recession or contraction (not an official recession but a severe contraction) the lone financial institution that was able to generate significant profits to its shareholders was Goldman Sachs investment bank. And guess what their TOP FIVE STAR ANALYST said about oil? 180 by the end of the 4th quarter. Now, that doesnt HOPEFULLY wont happen, but I doubt that the price of oil will drop to 40 (thats hilarious!), or even 80.

Another economic note, we are in a commodity Bull market and Russia is a commodity based country. So as long as commodities prices surge, so will Russia's economy. And you obviously understand that as china, india brasil, and many other developing countries continue to, well, develop, that will increase demand and keep commodities prices high.

As for Russia not being a superpower. What do you need to do qualify as a superpower? Strong army (Yes), strong economy (Yes) Influence? (Yes). Last time i checked, Russia went into Georgia and all we did was complain about territorial integrity.

We need to worry more about ourselves. Fannie and Freddie just got bailed out, Lehman bros are going to get bought of by Koreans. Unemployent, almost no growth (stagflation anyone?) Our markets are doing terrible, and the mortgage crisis is augmenting the pains. So before we talk about Russia, lets clean house.

What punishment are they talking about ! With the same success they can pick out their right eyes ! Then they can at least blame Russia that we have one eyed partners in Europe ...

You will find no other sample that so many idiots gather in one place. But it happens each time when European elites meet together under NATO , EU or any other trade mark.

I respect the Americans standing firm on the ruling the world idea. But their EU back vockals I accept just like cattle following the Yanks to the meat plant. Good journey !

The diplomacy of the EU has been a proof of a completely new quality in dealing with conflicts. as an EU citizen I am very proud on the unity proven by all member states. EU started with deescalation of the conflict at once - and they respect Russia as partner and neighbour, while others were already lost in primitive cold war scenarios.

EU needs no polarisation, it stands on her own feet. it's clear and united stance has become an important factor for security and stability in the conflict region as well as on global level.

I really doubt, that Serbia would be able for to join such a united stance at the moment. anyway: Serbia is one of the profiteers of peace and stability in Europe - and history shows, that these are the times, when prosperity and welfare are developing for all.

come out from the political trenches of the past, Serbia, solve your unsolved conflicts inside the country and with your neighbours. start to prosper in peace, Serbia

papajohn,

There is just one super power, the USA. Maybe there will be a second, China after a while. But Russia, despite the current oil revenue can never be a super power again. For that its relatively limited industrial base and a mid-size population of some 145 million is just not enough. Also if the oil price is dropping further let say to 80 dollars (some British expect 40 dollars, what I consider unrealistic) you will see how fast bellicose Russia will lose some hot air and become much sober.

Why should we be hurt by doing business with Russia? They are hurting us every time, because of the enormous corruption and mafia practises going up into the highest ranks. I often wrote about it, but mostly the B92 redaction were not prepared to print it.
Dear 'Rote Kapelle', read this article out of the Guardian of today to show , how your favorite Russia deals in business: http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2008/sep/07/russia/
Without investments of the West and after running out of oil and gas, Russia will fall back. At that time not only their already poor citizens will be poor, also the ones that are filling up their pockets now. The only thing we'll have to do is blocking the money they have on their accounts abroad.
That's why for the moment Kouchner might be considerate, but on the long term the danger lays on the Russian side.

"Russia will lose some hot air and become much sober." Joe,
If the US had power they would have attacked Russia a big time by now. So, be quite as no many normal people want WWIII. Also, US soldiers have their customs and claim to be the best but it is so false. They would run awat like little mice if they fight with Russians. Just think about drafting US people and Russians...And Russia never lost a war. How about US (Vietnam, Korea, Iraq,etc etc). US lost just little wars, they did not dare envade Servbia either. So it is all glamor and Hollywood.Also, Russia's oil export contributes less than 10% of the GDP. So, if oil goes down it would not be like you really said. And lastly Yankes know that Russia has beter weapons even though Yanke's budget is a way above Russians. But it is not all about money. I may sound like a pro Russian but these are the facts. Please dont read CNN and FOX when you want to learn history.

luciano,

Shalom aleihem !

I like your comments because they are reasonable and pragmatic. This is what most of us are lacking. Russia seeks no confrontation but we have very poor choice : either we obey the US or there will be a kind of a Cold War. Out of the two Russia chooses new confrontation. As simple as that.

Look what is happening now : the US sents it’s fleet to our shores in the Black Sea and in response we send our fleet to the Caribean … It’s a very dangerous development especially now that the agony of the US economy and finance became evident and the loss of American influence became inevitable.

My strategic partner’s mother is a Jew and it makes no problems. We just have more jokes over Russians and the Jews. In between we are enlarging our plant and buying new production lines to launch new products. In general Jews are not so out of mind Rusophobes as Poles or mini Balts.

Yes Israel plays a negative role in anti Russian policy of the USA and that’s why they modernized Georgian tanks that later destroyed the Jewish part of Tshinval town. They also helped to train the Georgian “army” and supplied them with some armaments. Yet Israel must be very reluctant to do all this because Russia can easily shift the balance in the Middle East by supplying anti aircraft missiles to Syria and Iran. And it will no doubt put an end to the Israeli superiority in the air.



dave (UK)

Every year Russia have 8-9 new submarines able to carry upto 16 BULAVA missiles with 10 nuclear charges in each. This type of missiles is totally invincible for they can not only put false targets but change their route , entering the atmosphere and returning back to the space. Besides they move twice faster than any American missile. This month YURI DOLGORUKY submarine will enter our fleet…

We all dislike such developments but surrounded by the US puppet regimes in Bulgaria , Romania , Ukraine , Georgia , Korea , Japan , Poland , Lithuania ect. we have no other choice but to guarantee the White House that we can any time turn it into Black Ashes.

Our generals as I heard do not plan a direct attack at the UK. They plan to blow up a couple of thermonuclear 50 Megaton bombs in the sea close to the islands. They say it will be enough to stop the war UK is launching against us during last 200 years. In any case it’s not our choice. We prefer peace and cooperation.


Ataman

As for the Joe and Hungary of 1956 we should estimate the events from the logic and in the context of that time. And if you do so you will see that USSR has stopped the already started civil war between Hungarian Communists and those who hated them. Before we invaded they had killed about 2500 of each other.

Very little is said that almost the same time France , UK , Belgium ,USA and Holland has arranged massacres in Asia and Africa where poor colored peoples suffered hundred times more losses than those in Hungary.


Cheers all !

Rote Kapelle,

this is exactly the real Russian attitude that scares nations (Poland, Finland, Hungary, Georgia, Germany, Romania to name a few) that were already looted, raped by uncivilised russian soldiers and had a Russian army to keep them quiet for decades, while USSR slowly but surely destroyed their economies and exploited their lands.

Now, here you (they) go again, reasoning that sovereign nations, such as Ukraine, Georgia, formerly the Baltic states are their buffer zones??

This miserable KGB guy is out of his mind, and unfortunately, poor Russians are happy to applaud, thinking back with nostalgy to the "good old days". They seem to forget they had to queue for white bread which was available only once a week (I was in that line myself in 1983 in Moscow, so I am not inventing). Now as a little prosperity is visible, Russians follow their "father figure" whatever he is doing, hunting for Tigers, or threatening to start a new cold war.

Poor Serbians, out of despair turned to Russia, but fell out of favour as they have served Russian interest and no longer important.

I agree with Rolerkoster, EU is finally finding its common voice luckily and try to counter ballance the influence of USA and try to find defense against an increasingly agressive Russia.

Ataman,

I basically supported and support the Kosovo Albanian independence cause and not individual politicians. Since practically all current politicians in Central European countries used to be commi party members or members of the youth communist org. what count for me is their stand today. What they represent today!!!
There are extremely few like me who was not even in the youth organization like KISZ in Hungary.
Look even Angela Merkel was in the East German Communist Youth Organization. So for you going back to Thraci's student years appears like a completely useless obsession.
As a Russian you grew up in Hungary. You claimed that you were never a commi. I am however just wondering if for "useful" reasons like to ensure entry into the university you were a KISZ member like so many others.

Shalom.

What sanctions do you want against the country supplying you? You want us to cut off its atmospheric gases?"

-Finally some common sense coming from this man. Imposing sanctions on Russia would be shooting in own foot.

Surely UK as a the worse USA’s satellite in Europe (after Poland), would be pleased to push more decisively on imposing sanctions to Russia, but thanks god that some common sense prevails in France and Germany.

Rolerkoster, this article is about the EU and Russia, yet you focus on Serbia, you obviously have a serbian obsession. Anyway, I am so glad that Russia has a huge bargaining chip at its disposal, otherwise they would be another US/EU colony. It's all about the oil, sadly to say. What do you think Georgia is all about. It's about a stinking pipeline that will go through it from the Black Sea. The "support democracy" BS that DC preaches is so fake and transparent. No one is buying anymore. Wherever you see Dick Cheney appear, you can be sure that an oily dollar is involved. Thank God the world has more than one super-power again..

Joe

Shalom !

How could you write this :" There is just one super power, the USA ..." ?

Looks like last time you read a newspaper was a decade ago ! With over 6% of unemployment you have enough time for self education. Please don't miss the chance because the things will run even worse. USA IS A BANCRUPT NOT ONLY IN FINANCES BUT IN EVERYTHING ELSE. I enjoy reading news from the USA.

Russia is the Energy Superpower the USA cannot even dream of ! Also you breathe untill the USA behaves the way we like it. But there's no need to launch a war. During the year to come your "empire" will stop to exist under the press of your debts.

I have to inform you also that the famous concert in Tshinval led by the great Ossetian director GERGIEV was arranged in the JEWISH part of the town. As a Jew you have to know that the Jewish houses here were destroyed by Georgian tanks modernized by Israel with two Israeli Generals among the attacking Georgian troops. What a shame !

Without investments of the West and after running out of oil and gas, Russia will fall back ... The only thing we'll have to do is blocking the money they have on their accounts abroad."

Strange as you are ! Joe claiming you have a Superpower on your side and now you are offering to rob the Russians only because you suppose that their money is stolen from Russia ! Also you say that this is the only thing you can do to undermine Russia. But the problem is that you cannot afford even this coz Russia's backstrike will be devastating for the West.

I am amused when you talk of the investments you can deprive Russia of. Don't you know that the West is no longer an exporter but an importer of money. And Russia became one of the biggest donors of the West. So the only way you can harm Russia is to commit suiside by a nuclear attack at Russia. 2500 Russian missiles carrying about 10 000 nuclear charges are able to devastate twice all NATO members and all NATO candidates during one day. So stagnating West have to coexist with gaining force Russia.

By the way once you clicked the web what ROTE KAPELLE means you could have guessed that I am a Russian. Worse than that I live in Moscow and can witness how fast the things change for better. We are a united nation and we can see much more problems to be solved here than you can even imagine.

P.S. Thanks for the link. To my shame the story sounds true so here I agree with you. We are not Saints ... That's why annual foreign investments to Russian economy this year are expected to be as low as 40 Bln USD against 73 Bln last year.

Careful !

Rote, as an educated American I would like to say that many of us know how brilliant Russian scientists,mathematicians and engineers are and we desire the best relations with the people of your country.Millions of Americans are of Russian ethnicity/heritage and have contributed a lot to this country so there is no need for any animosity between our respective peoples.On the other hand,states do not have friends(only interests)but our common interests far outweigh our differences.The American eagle should never come in the bear's backyard but unfortunately there are idiots who make up the military-industrial complex who need enemies to justify their huge spending but risking any kind of confrontation between our soldiers because of the actions of a fool in Tbilisi is insane to put it mildly.As far as any Jew/Israeli helping the criminal regime in Tbilisi these individuals are plain old mercenaries and in no way represent the overall Jewish community.Putin is very generous for not kicking out the million Georgians who live and work in Russia because he understands that it is not the average Georgian who seeks conflict with Russians.How many people even know that a million Georgians or Jews live happily in Russia?The previous commentator who you refer to is not a Jew just a pretend to know it all uneducated something or other who is probably a member of the Hungarian fascist movement.Shalom from a real American.

Joe

i must disagree with you on the US the only super power. Russia, China and India are growing powers.

The US and UK are debt ridden where Russia has spare cash gained from oil and gas known as the stabilization fund. The US system is set up on the Petro Dollar for example OPEC trade in American Dollars which goes through New York. If the oil countries decided to use eg. the Euro the US would effectively go bankrupt an example of this is where Saddam and his weapons of mass destruction, he had one, he threatened to sell oil in Euros. Same with Iran they have threatened the same. The petro dollar system is abit like the Atlantic heat conveyour if it fails we all go cold.

Military wise China has the biggest armed forces followed by the US, India then Russia. As for Nukes in 2005 the US had a stock pile of Approx 10K missles while Russia it's nearly 17K missiles.

I doubt in realality if Russia and EU really want sanctions especially over a little country like Georgia.

While the UK demands a tougher stance we dont depend on gas and oil as much as Germany or France.

Finally the biggest threat to world peace is G W Bush thank god his term is nearly oveIts funny the US stands for freedom, independence etc but it acts like Brition did in the 18th and 19th centuary. All empires come to an end Joe.

For those who like to read some more about Russia's perspectives seen by a. Luke Harding in Moscow, the Guardian, 6.9.2008
http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2008/sep/06/russia.globaleconomy; or by Andrei Piontkovsky, a Russian analyst:
http://search.japantimes.co.jp/cgi-bin/eo20080903a1.html

More I don't want to say too much myself, only that some of you have a very rosy immage of this country, where you never have been

Cees,

Yes most of the Western investors wind up like Browder. They were too naive to invest in a country, where corruption is one of the biggest in the whole world. I have two Russian collegues, who tell me horror stories about it.
Western investors finally start to realize that they could lose all their investment. They withdrew 20-25 billion dollars lately. This is just the beginning. Using your words " whithout investments of the West and after running out of oil and gas" Russia will have the look of a very tame, tootless bear. It will look like the bear (only the skin) on the floor of a hotel I stopped by in Central Europe.

Rote Kapelle,

Joe is actually a Hungarian who lives (mostly) in USA and is American, too. Joe, like many Hungarians in American immigration is above all anti-Russian for Soviet Union's role in 1956 tragedy. Nevermind, that Nikita Hruschyov was Ukrainian and the root cause was due a Georgian dictator, Dzhugashvili (also known as Stalin). It's all Russian fault, no doubt.

Don't confuse him with Robert-O from Frisco, a self-proclaimed "moderate Zionist" who is also an "anti-nationalist" (being a self-proclaimed Zionist it's a twist, isn't it?), violently and above all an "anti-Serb".

I know from my friends, 99.99% of Israelis are supporting Serbs, so is the Russian-Jewish immigration in the States. Sorry to say, but the anti-Serb camp has some really funny cases.

I strongly suspect, both above cases are Serb-haters "by proxy": they are above all anti-Russians for different reasons (1956 in one case and for both a falsely understood American patriotism). Both in their zeal became pretty close to support marxists-leninists.

Isn't it odd? Pursue an anti-Russian and anti-Serbian agenda far enough and you can become a true communist.

Otherwiset I strongly disagree with putin's style, I find him very cold-blooded, cynical and not caring about own people and own allies. See his reaction to the tragedy of Kursk submarine - I never will forgive him. He is a KGB-automat, first extremely well pre-programmed, than extremely corrupted. McCain is the worst answer for him. putin (all small like nemecsek) should be marginized by defusing conflicts. Challenging him would increase his influence.

Rote,

Following your comment #7 I should really greet you Shalom. Anyway it is not the first time that somebody calls me a Jew. Two years ago before a Hungarian site was shut down Hungarian right extremists used to call me Jewish and described (not in nice terms) how my father looked like. On the other extrem the commentator #10 - who for some strange reason always start to tell that he is "educated" never fails to label me a kind of fascist. Seeing your comment I knew that he will hurry to tell you that I am not from the same religion and I am not educated like he is.
But the funniest and most contradictory thing came in comment #14. For him I am a marxist-leninist.
After these different labels on me I will inform my wife and warn her not be surprised if tonight - out of amusement - I am loughing loud.
Dear Rote I am sure that in the future you and I will frequently agree to disagree. There is nothing wrong with it as long as it is done in a civilized way.
For today Dobro vecer or dobro noc.

Ataman, you believe that Joe is a Hungarian? :)

well, even if so, his one-eyed analyses often lack the basic knowledge in regard to the kosovo-issue, so, who cares anyway? ...last but not least, whether he´s jewish, christian or whatever ...shouldn´t be of any relevance, though.

To Joe,

Of course you are not a Marxist-Leninist and I never said that. But you support SOME of them (i.e. Marxists-Leninists) actively with almost every your word. So does Robert-O.

Don't believe? Here you go:

http://tinyurl.com/5c3c73
http://tinyurl.com/5kj92a

This is not so funny, unfortunately.

As it stay in Wiki:

"By 1993, Thaçi joined the Albanian political emigration group in Switzerland, where he also pursued postgraduate studies at the University of Zurich in the history and international relations departments. There he became one of the founders of the People's Movement of Kosovo (LPK), a Marxist-Leninist political party devoted to Albanian popular nationalism."

Any objections to that?


To Rote Kapelle:

The events in 1956 have no excuse for USSR. They were extremely harmful and this is why there are so many people like Joe in Hungary: not just extremely anti-Russian, but even anti-Russian-by-proxy (i.e. anti-Serbian). This is despite the proven fact, the Hungarian minority has much better rights in Serbia than in any of it's neighbors.

The twist: who 1956 ordered the Soviet troops to crush the uprising was Ukrainian (Hruschyov) and the Hungarian minority's in Ukraine can only dream about being in Serbia. But we don't hear that much about this lately: Ukraine is "pro-Western", right?


It is also worth to judge the events of August 2008 and judge putin. saakashvili (all small) was clearly the initiator. But they got putin's "humanitarian bombing" all over Gruzia few days later. saakashvili declared, Gruzia is not in CIS anymore. Understand. But how you would comment this one:

From http://www.mza.ru - just look in the middle, precisely where "Информация о пропуске через государственную границу Российской Федерации с Азербайджанской республикой и Грузией" is. Read it and think about it. Basically, the citizens of non-CIS countries cannot cross the Russian-Azeri border anymore because of "Постановление Российской Федерации от 5 ноября 1999 года № 1223 «О мерах по предотвращению проникновения на территорию Российской Федерации»" begun to be applied. Why? Obviously, this is a cold-blooded kick to millions of mixed Georgian-Russian families, to Georgian migrant workers (are they spies, diversants, terrorists?) "Georgian Terrorist" precisely as not-existing like "Hungarian Terrorist" or "Serbian Terrorist" - it's not in the nature. Simply, that idiot suka-shvili gave an other SOB (putin) an opportunity to kick few million innocents - so putin did, of course. Now, the members of mixed families cannot cross by train or bus the Russian-Azeri border. They can, of course, cross the Ukrainian-Russian border, but all measure was done to make their travel more expensive and drain their pockets. What a shame, putin!

I basically supported and support the Kosovo Albanian independence cause and not individual politicians.
(Joe, 8 September 2008 16:32)

Who's interests that (in)DEPENDENCE does serve? :-/

Look even Angela Merkel was in the East German Communist Youth Organization. So for you going back to Thraci's student years
(Joe, 8 September 2008 16:32)

Let's compare Ms. Merkel with thaci.

Ms. Merkel: she was probably in FDJ because who wants to face ugly questions and confront STASI directly? KISZ was just that: an organization full of "politically correct" young people who just wanted not to stick out their head. You know precisely how it was: you stick out your head out of crowd, 1-2-3 and it's cut. Feel free to call her (Ms Merkel) or anyone here who is "old enough" merely cowards.

thaci: he did a bit more, than just singing few "politically correct" songs, wearing a red necktie and visiting the stupid obligatory Marxist course in the university: he FOUNDED A MARXIST-LENINIST PARTY.... WHILE IN SWITZERLAND.

Sorry Joe, this deed goes well beyond Merkel's FDJ (and possibly your KISZ) membership. ;)

What does represent thaci today is perfectly in synch with his Marxist-Leninist past.

Ataman,

You are pushing in an area, where you can not win. You were apparently a KISZ member. I wasn't!!! I have the moral high ground.
I left Hungary as a high school student and never had to sing "those politically correct songs". For me it does not matter who was singing them loud or less loud. You were ALL singing them. If I would be you I would not breg about it. I would be even ashamed to bring up the subject.

@ Joe.

Since your giving relating prices on oil to Russia's prosperity, i wanted to give everyone who reads this site my opinion. Since you perceive yourself as a business cognizant, I think you would know that throughout this recession or contraction (not an official recession but a severe contraction) the lone financial institution that was able to generate significant profits to its shareholders was Goldman Sachs investment bank. And guess what their TOP FIVE STAR ANALYST said about oil? 180 by the end of the 4th quarter. Now, that doesnt HOPEFULLY wont happen, but I doubt that the price of oil will drop to 40 (thats hilarious!), or even 80.

Another economic note, we are in a commodity Bull market and Russia is a commodity based country. So as long as commodities prices surge, so will Russia's economy. And you obviously understand that as china, india brasil, and many other developing countries continue to, well, develop, that will increase demand and keep commodities prices high.

As for Russia not being a superpower. What do you need to do qualify as a superpower? Strong army (Yes), strong economy (Yes) Influence? (Yes). Last time i checked, Russia went into Georgia and all we did was complain about territorial integrity.

We need to worry more about ourselves. Fannie and Freddie just got bailed out, Lehman bros are going to get bought of by Koreans. Unemployent, almost no growth (stagflation anyone?) Our markets are doing terrible, and the mortgage crisis is augmenting the pains. So before we talk about Russia, lets clean house.