I think the lack of unity of the albanian community in macedonia has delayed the recognition of Kosovo by macedonian authorities. Macedonia considering its demographics should have taken the lead in recognition. I don't think that the albanians in general should be dissappointed with the fact that the wave of recognition isn't in progress. Why would other countries that compose no albanian community that forms a major minority would recognize Kosovo when the albanians themselvs don't recognize it.
@Jovan
I am well aware of the albanians ways and covered nationalism. Of course there are extremists and ignorant people that would believe anything they would be fed. It is obvious.
You remember that time about the first man on the moon being an albanian. Or the other one with Alexander the Great being an albanian. Also lately I heard a rumor that God himself is an albanian but he doesnt say it loud because he is too modest as all albanians are.
The rest are just jokes. Noone could really take seriously some of what was posted in here:
"Where is the memory of Gjergj Kastrioti in greek history, songs, literature, poetry, and making him a national hero of Greece?" ...and ... "If you want to share our hero".... No we dont. We aknowledge that a Greek noble man fought the Turks with an army comprising mainly by albanians. So, you can have him as your national hero, but you cant claim that he was albanian. Georgios Kastriotis is a main figure in main folklore songs in Makedonia (meaning in Greece) and in North Epiros (meaning between Greeks), so I really cant see your point...
Or that other super intelligent answer that exposes ben:
"I guess I am not able to do it better than the Romanian"
Unfortunately you havent read what he wrote or you prefered to misinterprete it. So from his post you gathered that the whole Yugoslavia is Serbs and nothing else, not Croats, not Bosnians, not albanians, not Bulgarians, not Roma, not Turks, not Slovenes, but only Serbs, so you find it logical to ask why we feel friendship towards Serbs. Ok, I am sorry I cant follow this logic :)
Or that other inspired statement:
"It is only a name"
For people without past and history, yes it is only a name. For Greeks it is much more than that. It is Greece itself.
It is tiring to try and open the eyes of people that they really dont want to see anything other than what was set for them to see.
It is also obvious that some people cant get over the fact that the lack of history and tradition leads to an extremism that at the end destroyes them.
I am not worried about anything, I am not afraid of anyone. I am patient and patience pays at the end :)
The Macedonian government is completely frightened to death of Albanian terrorism and there is not doubt that if Kosovo wasn't recognized the ALbanians would launch a war on Skopje.
I was about to answer to The Greek and above all to Nikitas, but I guess I am not able to do it better than the Romanian:
"You should also remember that Yugoslavia tried to steal Aegean Macedonia from Greece during the Greek civil war. I really can't understand why there is so much love between Greeks and Serbs. Must be the common religion."
(Romanian, 7 September 2008 18:41)
P.S. teh fact of the expansionist plans of Yugo/Serbia to the Aegean Greece, were also rememebred by your FM Bakoyannis in her articke in IH Tribune
http://www.iht.com/articles/2008/03/31/opinion/edbakoy.php
I think that "the Greek" is just another albanian fake-identity, created to cause some ugly words between Serbs and Greeks. nothing more.
as for the name of the "former yugoslav republic of..." every real and intelligent Greek knows very well that they have nothing to fear from their friends. calling the frym- simply Macedonia is just a question of convenience, it´s only a abbreviation...
so, in official matters, it is FYRM , of course.
don´t let a naive Albanian fool you with these fake-identities... they try it all the time, it proves that they have no legal, moral, or historical arguments.
by the way, now even " 45 per cent of the greek population are albanians"... jesus, they really believe anything they are told by their cheap yellow-press!
just fakery, threats and cynism. that´s why they will fail, and Serbia will prevail.
Serbia has only accepted their state of Macedonia to secede but nothing about the name has been accepted or rejected. This is up to Greece and FYROM to decide.
Why are you claiming that Serbia has accepted anything other than secession?
Macedonia might recognize Kosovo not because they believe it belongs to the Albanians, but because they feel pressure from all sides. To the North, Kosovo, to the west, Albania, to the east, Bulgaria, to the south, Greece. Not only that, but internal Albanian pressure and overseas American pressure is bringing this brave nation to its knees.
The Greeks should allow the Macedonians to move back into their homes they cleansed them away from.
The Serbs should recognize the Macedonian Church.
The Macedonians should NOT recognize Kosovo.
KOSOVO IS SERBIAN, NOT ALBANIAN.
MACEDONIA IS MACEDONIAN, NOT GREEK.
'The Greek' is right. The Serbs should stop recognizing Macedonia as a name for FYROM. But then again FYROMians are among the few of Serbia's neighbors that don't hate it. Their 'language' is nothing more than a Bulgarian dialect strongly influenced by Serbian. This is why a FYROMian and a Bulgarian from Bulgarian Macedonia have trouble understanding each other when they talk about more sophisticated things. Neologisms in FYROMian are of Serbian origin while those in Bulgarian are of Russian origi. You should also remember that Yugoslavia tried to steal Aegean Macedonia from Greece during the Greek civil war. I really can't understand why there is so much love between Greeks and Serbs. Must be the common religion.
thanks to greece and its politic toward makedonia.makedonians this year chose not to go to greece for holidays but to go to the beaches of albania.And they were enchanted with their holidays,and the way albanians welcomed them:so they understood that it's better for them to have good relation with albania,for many problems,than to have with greek who is only trying to block makedonia...
@19
Thats great news!!!!
I am sure the hundrends of millions of euros that will flow in albania from fyromian tourists alone, will boost the albanian economy sky high!!!!
I am really very happy for both of you guys :)
I guess that was the reason why rooms in Makedonia were full of rich tourists and finally the owners there were smilling...
@15
If your only way of showing respect and celebrate your heroes is by making statues of them, I am sorry to inform you that you are hundrends years back in mentality.
I can name you tenths of Greek heroes that dont have a statue in their memory. Get over that naive and childise "argument" you assume you found. Heroes arent celebrated with statues, but in the memory of the people that keeps them alive.
@16
How on earth this supposed "great orthodox unity" came in our conversation? Who is talking about that? I have told you many times, that religious bonds are not the factor here. I myself blame the curch as an instution for most of the bad things that have happened to Greece and oy civilisation. In general i blame all those people that take advantage of religion to lure naive people in fanaticism. Even fyrom is using its own church to establish a link with older times. That is low.
You albanians think, or some have made you think, that you can blame all the rest for whatever happens to you, when in fact it is you that you cause everything to yourself and then you go around like cry babies and ask for compensations.
""in that united entity you will be only puppets and your culture will be reduced in nothing. The commanders will be Russians and in Balkans the Serbs- definitively NOT YOU""
Nobody will be master of nobody. Greece right now is the strongest country in the region by all means, but of course this can change in the future. And we don't count our friends (like Serbs trully are) based on their current power.
Definetely the envy you take out against Greece, exposes how low trully you feel about your country and your identity. A hungarian that is ashamed to say where he is from and presents himself as "mighty american". No other comment about yourself.
I will desist the temptation of reading this article since I'm will "buy" his "book" ;))
Alban: how did you arrive to fustanella when 'The Greek' was exposing in a certain hand a principled position and demanded reciprocity.
The only thing that I don't understand with 'The Greek' is why he refers to Albanians as 'enemies'????
I guess this is his personal view of the things...for the remaining he and other Greeks should make their own account: emotions (based on air) or rational and principled stance?? Up to you!
P.S. dear Greeks that nourish the ideal of great orthodox unity: in that united entity you will be only puppets and your culture will be reduced in nothing. The commanders will be Russians and in Balkans the Serbs- definitively NOT YOU. So just don't understand this chase of the inexistent myth.
I have stated before that Kossovo recognition, at least for me, would be illegal. I certainly wouldnt support it in any case and by any Greek goverment.
And although I also posted some time earlier that I would like to see Serbs start calling Fyrom with its real name (Fyrom), this should also be done in the name of reciprocity.
I mean that, Greece supports Serbia in her struggles and policies, but we expect from Serbia a similar support. That doesnt mean a blackmail though. We give you this and you HAVE to give us that. No. It is just a constant support towards Serbia, which in the name of reciprocity should start thinking of the support in the name issue. I dont think that threatening is working here. We help, its ok. They dont want to help back, its ok too. Kossovo recognition is not or at least should not be a matter of give and take, but a matter of respecting international law.
As for Alban and someone else. I have answered you many many times about your fairy tales and nationalistic propaganda. Keep your family ties for your Caspian brothers and not for the Balkans since you only are relate to them and not to any other of us here. Arvanites, fustanela, Souliotes, Kastriotis and many many more were and are Greek and unfortunately for you, you dont learn from your fyromian Slavs neighbours that you can steal other peoples history and traditions.
I am sorry, but it just cant happen and we will not let it happen, especially with you. You are not "enemies" or "friends" in any way. You are just... others and as such you cant be either of the two.
Now on the article.
It looks like the usual fairy tales of the albanians. It is likethose other articles that Greece is recognising, the first man on the moon was albanian and other nice stories.
Because the demarkation process is close to an end, it doesnt really mean that a recognition is close to an end too. The tactics of the albanians to baptise an own conclusion or a rumor or a dream or a vision, as a fact is proved day after day in all issues.
Even at the fustanela :)
Old notions of fried and foe were never more overstated than in Balkans. This perceived division is not sustained by experiences of constant hostility or war. Not more that any other country. France- Germany relations are prime example of this theory’s fallibility.
Greece is the biggest investor in western Balkans including Macedonia and Albania.
Emotional variables are no longer influential in decision making. Our economies are increasingly becoming interdependent and in a world of ideas and fast movement, talking of enemies and allies will very shortly become a thing of the past.
Many happy returs Roberto.
This same newspaper claimed both Montenegro and FYROM would recognize in May, then June, then summer, then September. The on October 6th they will say October 23rd.
Oh, that is wonderful news, as always, and this time one day leading up to my birthday :)
upon such occasions (another recognition, not my b-day) i will spare any negativity, and just say "thank you" to Macedonia and to the free world. and to freedom -loving people everywhere. we need to support one another, and try to make this a better world.
thank you!! another day of joy for our Kosovar brothers and sisters and all of our allies...
Albania for exapmle does not recognise Fyrom as macedonia for the last 17 years- only for the sake of good relations with Greece.
It seems that our "enemies" like Albanians can respect us more than our "friends" Serbs, while they don't desperately need our diplomatic support, like you do over Kosovo, but just our friendship.
(The Greek, 6 September 2008 16:14)
Albanians were and are best friend of Macedonians of Alexander the Great (son of Philip with one of his 8 wives, Olimbia, who was Albanian). Albanians were and are the best friend of Greece with whom they shared the history, culture, and faith. Everything started when Slavs came to Balkan in 7-8 century especially during 12 century when most of Albania and part of Greece were occupied from Serbian Empire. A century later Ottomans messed it up even more. Then Balkan turned into battle-field. Unfortunately, Albanians were too divided to fight as united country. Unfortunately, Albanians, fighting alone, were not able to resist Ottomans more then 28 years. 1468 with their hero Gjergj Kastrioti dead died also Albanians unity and prosperity.
Those are Albanians, a complicated nation, who often misunderstood.
If it's true then it will be a big SHAME for Macedonia. Let's hope that they will not be cowed and stand for international law.
Takenote if you allowed yourself be used by the west soon the albanians in macedonia will carve their own territory and follow kosovo. and of course they will use again the word "special case" to justify their act.
Macedonia!!Please dont abandon international law and order.
Enemies? Come on 'The Greek'. Your best heroes (Suli, Hydra and Arvanites) are Albanians. And so is the fustanella, your national costume, and 'your' traditional music is Albanian Cham. See for yourself http://img167.imageshack.us/img167/6921/albaniain1800sxh5.jpg
as many as 45% of the 'Greeks' were Albanian. http://www.greekhelsinki.gr/english/reports/arvanites.html
Friendship is unconditional. your idea of freidnship is, ''we'll do something for you only if you do something for out interests'' disregarding and simplfying the whole situation to an appaling and insulting standard. Your understanding of Balkan conflict appaling.
Good thing majority of Greeks and their politicians have a more realistic view, than this.
If this was to be a mentality of any country, regardless of who it is or where it is located, then I would perfer for that country to go off and recongize kosovo, togeher with other two faced, hypocritical countries of the West.
It just means, that according to your logic, Greece should not care for International Law, but to win some petty fight over a name.
The name dispute has NO effect on Greece's economy or territory, and Kosovo is taking away 15% of Serbia's terrirory illegaly.
Your argument is tiresome, and frankly with friends like that, who needs enemies, right?
Let's see for how long Serbia will keep calling Fyrom, "Macedonia". If Fyrom recognises Kosovo, it will be almost pathetic for Serbia not to lift the recognition of Fyrom, as "macedonia", and call it Fyrom again.
You Serbs expect from others not to recognise Kosovo, but when it comes to your obligation and proper behaviour as a country - especially to your "friends", you just forget everything.
Greece today is one of the very few countries in the EU (and one of the most importnant countries in the balkan region - probably the most importnat) that have not recognised Kosovo yet and acts drasitaclly against Kosovo recognition. Probably more than any other country in the region. And what do you do for return? You keep calling Fyrom, "macedonia", while Albania for exapmle does not recognise Fyrom as macedonia for the last 17 years- only for the sake of good relations with Greece.
It seems that our "enemies" like Albanians can respect us more than our "friends" Serbs, while they don't desperately need our diplomatic support, like you do over Kosovo, but just our friendship.
If Fyrom recognises Kosovo, and Serbia keeps calling pseudo-macedonians as "macedonians", then you simply deserve what you have become.
Greece together with Cyprus should recognise Kosovo immediately, the next day. If you want others to understand your "sensitivities" over your matters (Kosovo), you must learn to understand other's "sensitivities" over other issues ("macedonia" name). Otherwise you don't deserve any friendship or help by anyone.
Friendship is unconditional. your idea of freidnship is, ''we'll do something for you only if you do something for out interests'' disregarding and simplfying the whole situation to an appaling and insulting standard. Your understanding of Balkan conflict appaling.
Good thing majority of Greeks and their politicians have a more realistic view, than this.
If this was to be a mentality of any country, regardless of who it is or where it is located, then I would perfer for that country to go off and recongize kosovo, togeher with other two faced, hypocritical countries of the West.
It just means, that according to your logic, Greece should not care for International Law, but to win some petty fight over a name.
The name dispute has NO effect on Greece's economy or territory, and Kosovo is taking away 15% of Serbia's terrirory illegaly.
Your argument is tiresome, and frankly with friends like that, who needs enemies, right?
Let's see for how long Serbia will keep calling Fyrom, "Macedonia". If Fyrom recognises Kosovo, it will be almost pathetic for Serbia not to lift the recognition of Fyrom, as "macedonia", and call it Fyrom again.
You Serbs expect from others not to recognise Kosovo, but when it comes to your obligation and proper behaviour as a country - especially to your "friends", you just forget everything.
Greece today is one of the very few countries in the EU (and one of the most importnant countries in the balkan region - probably the most importnat) that have not recognised Kosovo yet and acts drasitaclly against Kosovo recognition. Probably more than any other country in the region. And what do you do for return? You keep calling Fyrom, "macedonia", while Albania for exapmle does not recognise Fyrom as macedonia for the last 17 years- only for the sake of good relations with Greece.
It seems that our "enemies" like Albanians can respect us more than our "friends" Serbs, while they don't desperately need our diplomatic support, like you do over Kosovo, but just our friendship.
If Fyrom recognises Kosovo, and Serbia keeps calling pseudo-macedonians as "macedonians", then you simply deserve what you have become.
Greece together with Cyprus should recognise Kosovo immediately, the next day. If you want others to understand your "sensitivities" over your matters (Kosovo), you must learn to understand other's "sensitivities" over other issues ("macedonia" name). Otherwise you don't deserve any friendship or help by anyone.
Enemies? Come on 'The Greek'. Your best heroes (Suli, Hydra and Arvanites) are Albanians. And so is the fustanella, your national costume, and 'your' traditional music is Albanian Cham. See for yourself http://img167.imageshack.us/img167/6921/albaniain1800sxh5.jpg
as many as 45% of the 'Greeks' were Albanian. http://www.greekhelsinki.gr/english/reports/arvanites.html
If it's true then it will be a big SHAME for Macedonia. Let's hope that they will not be cowed and stand for international law.
Takenote if you allowed yourself be used by the west soon the albanians in macedonia will carve their own territory and follow kosovo. and of course they will use again the word "special case" to justify their act.
Macedonia!!Please dont abandon international law and order.
Albania for exapmle does not recognise Fyrom as macedonia for the last 17 years- only for the sake of good relations with Greece.
It seems that our "enemies" like Albanians can respect us more than our "friends" Serbs, while they don't desperately need our diplomatic support, like you do over Kosovo, but just our friendship.
(The Greek, 6 September 2008 16:14)
Albanians were and are best friend of Macedonians of Alexander the Great (son of Philip with one of his 8 wives, Olimbia, who was Albanian). Albanians were and are the best friend of Greece with whom they shared the history, culture, and faith. Everything started when Slavs came to Balkan in 7-8 century especially during 12 century when most of Albania and part of Greece were occupied from Serbian Empire. A century later Ottomans messed it up even more. Then Balkan turned into battle-field. Unfortunately, Albanians were too divided to fight as united country. Unfortunately, Albanians, fighting alone, were not able to resist Ottomans more then 28 years. 1468 with their hero Gjergj Kastrioti dead died also Albanians unity and prosperity.
Those are Albanians, a complicated nation, who often misunderstood.
Oh, that is wonderful news, as always, and this time one day leading up to my birthday :)
upon such occasions (another recognition, not my b-day) i will spare any negativity, and just say "thank you" to Macedonia and to the free world. and to freedom -loving people everywhere. we need to support one another, and try to make this a better world.
thank you!! another day of joy for our Kosovar brothers and sisters and all of our allies...
This same newspaper claimed both Montenegro and FYROM would recognize in May, then June, then summer, then September. The on October 6th they will say October 23rd.
I have stated before that Kossovo recognition, at least for me, would be illegal. I certainly wouldnt support it in any case and by any Greek goverment.
And although I also posted some time earlier that I would like to see Serbs start calling Fyrom with its real name (Fyrom), this should also be done in the name of reciprocity.
I mean that, Greece supports Serbia in her struggles and policies, but we expect from Serbia a similar support. That doesnt mean a blackmail though. We give you this and you HAVE to give us that. No. It is just a constant support towards Serbia, which in the name of reciprocity should start thinking of the support in the name issue. I dont think that threatening is working here. We help, its ok. They dont want to help back, its ok too. Kossovo recognition is not or at least should not be a matter of give and take, but a matter of respecting international law.
As for Alban and someone else. I have answered you many many times about your fairy tales and nationalistic propaganda. Keep your family ties for your Caspian brothers and not for the Balkans since you only are relate to them and not to any other of us here. Arvanites, fustanela, Souliotes, Kastriotis and many many more were and are Greek and unfortunately for you, you dont learn from your fyromian Slavs neighbours that you can steal other peoples history and traditions.
I am sorry, but it just cant happen and we will not let it happen, especially with you. You are not "enemies" or "friends" in any way. You are just... others and as such you cant be either of the two.
Now on the article.
It looks like the usual fairy tales of the albanians. It is likethose other articles that Greece is recognising, the first man on the moon was albanian and other nice stories.
Because the demarkation process is close to an end, it doesnt really mean that a recognition is close to an end too. The tactics of the albanians to baptise an own conclusion or a rumor or a dream or a vision, as a fact is proved day after day in all issues.
Even at the fustanela :)
""in that united entity you will be only puppets and your culture will be reduced in nothing. The commanders will be Russians and in Balkans the Serbs- definitively NOT YOU""
Nobody will be master of nobody. Greece right now is the strongest country in the region by all means, but of course this can change in the future. And we don't count our friends (like Serbs trully are) based on their current power.
Definetely the envy you take out against Greece, exposes how low trully you feel about your country and your identity. A hungarian that is ashamed to say where he is from and presents himself as "mighty american". No other comment about yourself.
@19
Thats great news!!!!
I am sure the hundrends of millions of euros that will flow in albania from fyromian tourists alone, will boost the albanian economy sky high!!!!
I am really very happy for both of you guys :)
I guess that was the reason why rooms in Makedonia were full of rich tourists and finally the owners there were smilling...
@15
If your only way of showing respect and celebrate your heroes is by making statues of them, I am sorry to inform you that you are hundrends years back in mentality.
I can name you tenths of Greek heroes that dont have a statue in their memory. Get over that naive and childise "argument" you assume you found. Heroes arent celebrated with statues, but in the memory of the people that keeps them alive.
@16
How on earth this supposed "great orthodox unity" came in our conversation? Who is talking about that? I have told you many times, that religious bonds are not the factor here. I myself blame the curch as an instution for most of the bad things that have happened to Greece and oy civilisation. In general i blame all those people that take advantage of religion to lure naive people in fanaticism. Even fyrom is using its own church to establish a link with older times. That is low.
You albanians think, or some have made you think, that you can blame all the rest for whatever happens to you, when in fact it is you that you cause everything to yourself and then you go around like cry babies and ask for compensations.
I think that "the Greek" is just another albanian fake-identity, created to cause some ugly words between Serbs and Greeks. nothing more.
as for the name of the "former yugoslav republic of..." every real and intelligent Greek knows very well that they have nothing to fear from their friends. calling the frym- simply Macedonia is just a question of convenience, it´s only a abbreviation...
so, in official matters, it is FYRM , of course.
don´t let a naive Albanian fool you with these fake-identities... they try it all the time, it proves that they have no legal, moral, or historical arguments.
by the way, now even " 45 per cent of the greek population are albanians"... jesus, they really believe anything they are told by their cheap yellow-press!
just fakery, threats and cynism. that´s why they will fail, and Serbia will prevail.
thanks to greece and its politic toward makedonia.makedonians this year chose not to go to greece for holidays but to go to the beaches of albania.And they were enchanted with their holidays,and the way albanians welcomed them:so they understood that it's better for them to have good relation with albania,for many problems,than to have with greek who is only trying to block makedonia...
'The Greek' is right. The Serbs should stop recognizing Macedonia as a name for FYROM. But then again FYROMians are among the few of Serbia's neighbors that don't hate it. Their 'language' is nothing more than a Bulgarian dialect strongly influenced by Serbian. This is why a FYROMian and a Bulgarian from Bulgarian Macedonia have trouble understanding each other when they talk about more sophisticated things. Neologisms in FYROMian are of Serbian origin while those in Bulgarian are of Russian origi. You should also remember that Yugoslavia tried to steal Aegean Macedonia from Greece during the Greek civil war. I really can't understand why there is so much love between Greeks and Serbs. Must be the common religion.
@Jovan
I am well aware of the albanians ways and covered nationalism. Of course there are extremists and ignorant people that would believe anything they would be fed. It is obvious.
You remember that time about the first man on the moon being an albanian. Or the other one with Alexander the Great being an albanian. Also lately I heard a rumor that God himself is an albanian but he doesnt say it loud because he is too modest as all albanians are.
The rest are just jokes. Noone could really take seriously some of what was posted in here:
"Where is the memory of Gjergj Kastrioti in greek history, songs, literature, poetry, and making him a national hero of Greece?" ...and ... "If you want to share our hero".... No we dont. We aknowledge that a Greek noble man fought the Turks with an army comprising mainly by albanians. So, you can have him as your national hero, but you cant claim that he was albanian. Georgios Kastriotis is a main figure in main folklore songs in Makedonia (meaning in Greece) and in North Epiros (meaning between Greeks), so I really cant see your point...
Or that other super intelligent answer that exposes ben:
"I guess I am not able to do it better than the Romanian"
Unfortunately you havent read what he wrote or you prefered to misinterprete it. So from his post you gathered that the whole Yugoslavia is Serbs and nothing else, not Croats, not Bosnians, not albanians, not Bulgarians, not Roma, not Turks, not Slovenes, but only Serbs, so you find it logical to ask why we feel friendship towards Serbs. Ok, I am sorry I cant follow this logic :)
Or that other inspired statement:
"It is only a name"
For people without past and history, yes it is only a name. For Greeks it is much more than that. It is Greece itself.
It is tiring to try and open the eyes of people that they really dont want to see anything other than what was set for them to see.
It is also obvious that some people cant get over the fact that the lack of history and tradition leads to an extremism that at the end destroyes them.
I am not worried about anything, I am not afraid of anyone. I am patient and patience pays at the end :)
Old notions of fried and foe were never more overstated than in Balkans. This perceived division is not sustained by experiences of constant hostility or war. Not more that any other country. France- Germany relations are prime example of this theory’s fallibility.
Greece is the biggest investor in western Balkans including Macedonia and Albania.
Emotional variables are no longer influential in decision making. Our economies are increasingly becoming interdependent and in a world of ideas and fast movement, talking of enemies and allies will very shortly become a thing of the past.
Many happy returs Roberto.
I will desist the temptation of reading this article since I'm will "buy" his "book" ;))
Alban: how did you arrive to fustanella when 'The Greek' was exposing in a certain hand a principled position and demanded reciprocity.
The only thing that I don't understand with 'The Greek' is why he refers to Albanians as 'enemies'????
I guess this is his personal view of the things...for the remaining he and other Greeks should make their own account: emotions (based on air) or rational and principled stance?? Up to you!
P.S. dear Greeks that nourish the ideal of great orthodox unity: in that united entity you will be only puppets and your culture will be reduced in nothing. The commanders will be Russians and in Balkans the Serbs- definitively NOT YOU. So just don't understand this chase of the inexistent myth.
Macedonia might recognize Kosovo not because they believe it belongs to the Albanians, but because they feel pressure from all sides. To the North, Kosovo, to the west, Albania, to the east, Bulgaria, to the south, Greece. Not only that, but internal Albanian pressure and overseas American pressure is bringing this brave nation to its knees.
The Greeks should allow the Macedonians to move back into their homes they cleansed them away from.
The Serbs should recognize the Macedonian Church.
The Macedonians should NOT recognize Kosovo.
KOSOVO IS SERBIAN, NOT ALBANIAN.
MACEDONIA IS MACEDONIAN, NOT GREEK.
Serbia has only accepted their state of Macedonia to secede but nothing about the name has been accepted or rejected. This is up to Greece and FYROM to decide.
Why are you claiming that Serbia has accepted anything other than secession?
The Macedonian government is completely frightened to death of Albanian terrorism and there is not doubt that if Kosovo wasn't recognized the ALbanians would launch a war on Skopje.
I was about to answer to The Greek and above all to Nikitas, but I guess I am not able to do it better than the Romanian:
"You should also remember that Yugoslavia tried to steal Aegean Macedonia from Greece during the Greek civil war. I really can't understand why there is so much love between Greeks and Serbs. Must be the common religion."
(Romanian, 7 September 2008 18:41)
P.S. teh fact of the expansionist plans of Yugo/Serbia to the Aegean Greece, were also rememebred by your FM Bakoyannis in her articke in IH Tribune
http://www.iht.com/articles/2008/03/31/opinion/edbakoy.php
I think the lack of unity of the albanian community in macedonia has delayed the recognition of Kosovo by macedonian authorities. Macedonia considering its demographics should have taken the lead in recognition. I don't think that the albanians in general should be dissappointed with the fact that the wave of recognition isn't in progress. Why would other countries that compose no albanian community that forms a major minority would recognize Kosovo when the albanians themselvs don't recognize it.
Let's see for how long Serbia will keep calling Fyrom, "Macedonia". If Fyrom recognises Kosovo, it will be almost pathetic for Serbia not to lift the recognition of Fyrom, as "macedonia", and call it Fyrom again.
You Serbs expect from others not to recognise Kosovo, but when it comes to your obligation and proper behaviour as a country - especially to your "friends", you just forget everything.
Greece today is one of the very few countries in the EU (and one of the most importnant countries in the balkan region - probably the most importnat) that have not recognised Kosovo yet and acts drasitaclly against Kosovo recognition. Probably more than any other country in the region. And what do you do for return? You keep calling Fyrom, "macedonia", while Albania for exapmle does not recognise Fyrom as macedonia for the last 17 years- only for the sake of good relations with Greece.
It seems that our "enemies" like Albanians can respect us more than our "friends" Serbs, while they don't desperately need our diplomatic support, like you do over Kosovo, but just our friendship.
If Fyrom recognises Kosovo, and Serbia keeps calling pseudo-macedonians as "macedonians", then you simply deserve what you have become.
Greece together with Cyprus should recognise Kosovo immediately, the next day. If you want others to understand your "sensitivities" over your matters (Kosovo), you must learn to understand other's "sensitivities" over other issues ("macedonia" name). Otherwise you don't deserve any friendship or help by anyone.
If it's true then it will be a big SHAME for Macedonia. Let's hope that they will not be cowed and stand for international law.
Takenote if you allowed yourself be used by the west soon the albanians in macedonia will carve their own territory and follow kosovo. and of course they will use again the word "special case" to justify their act.
Macedonia!!Please dont abandon international law and order.
Albania for exapmle does not recognise Fyrom as macedonia for the last 17 years- only for the sake of good relations with Greece.
It seems that our "enemies" like Albanians can respect us more than our "friends" Serbs, while they don't desperately need our diplomatic support, like you do over Kosovo, but just our friendship.
(The Greek, 6 September 2008 16:14)
Albanians were and are best friend of Macedonians of Alexander the Great (son of Philip with one of his 8 wives, Olimbia, who was Albanian). Albanians were and are the best friend of Greece with whom they shared the history, culture, and faith. Everything started when Slavs came to Balkan in 7-8 century especially during 12 century when most of Albania and part of Greece were occupied from Serbian Empire. A century later Ottomans messed it up even more. Then Balkan turned into battle-field. Unfortunately, Albanians were too divided to fight as united country. Unfortunately, Albanians, fighting alone, were not able to resist Ottomans more then 28 years. 1468 with their hero Gjergj Kastrioti dead died also Albanians unity and prosperity.
Those are Albanians, a complicated nation, who often misunderstood.
I have stated before that Kossovo recognition, at least for me, would be illegal. I certainly wouldnt support it in any case and by any Greek goverment.
And although I also posted some time earlier that I would like to see Serbs start calling Fyrom with its real name (Fyrom), this should also be done in the name of reciprocity.
I mean that, Greece supports Serbia in her struggles and policies, but we expect from Serbia a similar support. That doesnt mean a blackmail though. We give you this and you HAVE to give us that. No. It is just a constant support towards Serbia, which in the name of reciprocity should start thinking of the support in the name issue. I dont think that threatening is working here. We help, its ok. They dont want to help back, its ok too. Kossovo recognition is not or at least should not be a matter of give and take, but a matter of respecting international law.
As for Alban and someone else. I have answered you many many times about your fairy tales and nationalistic propaganda. Keep your family ties for your Caspian brothers and not for the Balkans since you only are relate to them and not to any other of us here. Arvanites, fustanela, Souliotes, Kastriotis and many many more were and are Greek and unfortunately for you, you dont learn from your fyromian Slavs neighbours that you can steal other peoples history and traditions.
I am sorry, but it just cant happen and we will not let it happen, especially with you. You are not "enemies" or "friends" in any way. You are just... others and as such you cant be either of the two.
Now on the article.
It looks like the usual fairy tales of the albanians. It is likethose other articles that Greece is recognising, the first man on the moon was albanian and other nice stories.
Because the demarkation process is close to an end, it doesnt really mean that a recognition is close to an end too. The tactics of the albanians to baptise an own conclusion or a rumor or a dream or a vision, as a fact is proved day after day in all issues.
Even at the fustanela :)
@Jovan
I am well aware of the albanians ways and covered nationalism. Of course there are extremists and ignorant people that would believe anything they would be fed. It is obvious.
You remember that time about the first man on the moon being an albanian. Or the other one with Alexander the Great being an albanian. Also lately I heard a rumor that God himself is an albanian but he doesnt say it loud because he is too modest as all albanians are.
The rest are just jokes. Noone could really take seriously some of what was posted in here:
"Where is the memory of Gjergj Kastrioti in greek history, songs, literature, poetry, and making him a national hero of Greece?" ...and ... "If you want to share our hero".... No we dont. We aknowledge that a Greek noble man fought the Turks with an army comprising mainly by albanians. So, you can have him as your national hero, but you cant claim that he was albanian. Georgios Kastriotis is a main figure in main folklore songs in Makedonia (meaning in Greece) and in North Epiros (meaning between Greeks), so I really cant see your point...
Or that other super intelligent answer that exposes ben:
"I guess I am not able to do it better than the Romanian"
Unfortunately you havent read what he wrote or you prefered to misinterprete it. So from his post you gathered that the whole Yugoslavia is Serbs and nothing else, not Croats, not Bosnians, not albanians, not Bulgarians, not Roma, not Turks, not Slovenes, but only Serbs, so you find it logical to ask why we feel friendship towards Serbs. Ok, I am sorry I cant follow this logic :)
Or that other inspired statement:
"It is only a name"
For people without past and history, yes it is only a name. For Greeks it is much more than that. It is Greece itself.
It is tiring to try and open the eyes of people that they really dont want to see anything other than what was set for them to see.
It is also obvious that some people cant get over the fact that the lack of history and tradition leads to an extremism that at the end destroyes them.
I am not worried about anything, I am not afraid of anyone. I am patient and patience pays at the end :)
Oh, that is wonderful news, as always, and this time one day leading up to my birthday :)
upon such occasions (another recognition, not my b-day) i will spare any negativity, and just say "thank you" to Macedonia and to the free world. and to freedom -loving people everywhere. we need to support one another, and try to make this a better world.
thank you!! another day of joy for our Kosovar brothers and sisters and all of our allies...
This same newspaper claimed both Montenegro and FYROM would recognize in May, then June, then summer, then September. The on October 6th they will say October 23rd.
The Macedonian government is completely frightened to death of Albanian terrorism and there is not doubt that if Kosovo wasn't recognized the ALbanians would launch a war on Skopje.
Friendship is unconditional. your idea of freidnship is, ''we'll do something for you only if you do something for out interests'' disregarding and simplfying the whole situation to an appaling and insulting standard. Your understanding of Balkan conflict appaling.
Good thing majority of Greeks and their politicians have a more realistic view, than this.
If this was to be a mentality of any country, regardless of who it is or where it is located, then I would perfer for that country to go off and recongize kosovo, togeher with other two faced, hypocritical countries of the West.
It just means, that according to your logic, Greece should not care for International Law, but to win some petty fight over a name.
The name dispute has NO effect on Greece's economy or territory, and Kosovo is taking away 15% of Serbia's terrirory illegaly.
Your argument is tiresome, and frankly with friends like that, who needs enemies, right?
Enemies? Come on 'The Greek'. Your best heroes (Suli, Hydra and Arvanites) are Albanians. And so is the fustanella, your national costume, and 'your' traditional music is Albanian Cham. See for yourself http://img167.imageshack.us/img167/6921/albaniain1800sxh5.jpg
as many as 45% of the 'Greeks' were Albanian. http://www.greekhelsinki.gr/english/reports/arvanites.html
I will desist the temptation of reading this article since I'm will "buy" his "book" ;))
Alban: how did you arrive to fustanella when 'The Greek' was exposing in a certain hand a principled position and demanded reciprocity.
The only thing that I don't understand with 'The Greek' is why he refers to Albanians as 'enemies'????
I guess this is his personal view of the things...for the remaining he and other Greeks should make their own account: emotions (based on air) or rational and principled stance?? Up to you!
P.S. dear Greeks that nourish the ideal of great orthodox unity: in that united entity you will be only puppets and your culture will be reduced in nothing. The commanders will be Russians and in Balkans the Serbs- definitively NOT YOU. So just don't understand this chase of the inexistent myth.
I think that "the Greek" is just another albanian fake-identity, created to cause some ugly words between Serbs and Greeks. nothing more.
as for the name of the "former yugoslav republic of..." every real and intelligent Greek knows very well that they have nothing to fear from their friends. calling the frym- simply Macedonia is just a question of convenience, it´s only a abbreviation...
so, in official matters, it is FYRM , of course.
don´t let a naive Albanian fool you with these fake-identities... they try it all the time, it proves that they have no legal, moral, or historical arguments.
by the way, now even " 45 per cent of the greek population are albanians"... jesus, they really believe anything they are told by their cheap yellow-press!
just fakery, threats and cynism. that´s why they will fail, and Serbia will prevail.
Old notions of fried and foe were never more overstated than in Balkans. This perceived division is not sustained by experiences of constant hostility or war. Not more that any other country. France- Germany relations are prime example of this theory’s fallibility.
Greece is the biggest investor in western Balkans including Macedonia and Albania.
Emotional variables are no longer influential in decision making. Our economies are increasingly becoming interdependent and in a world of ideas and fast movement, talking of enemies and allies will very shortly become a thing of the past.
Many happy returs Roberto.
""in that united entity you will be only puppets and your culture will be reduced in nothing. The commanders will be Russians and in Balkans the Serbs- definitively NOT YOU""
Nobody will be master of nobody. Greece right now is the strongest country in the region by all means, but of course this can change in the future. And we don't count our friends (like Serbs trully are) based on their current power.
Definetely the envy you take out against Greece, exposes how low trully you feel about your country and your identity. A hungarian that is ashamed to say where he is from and presents himself as "mighty american". No other comment about yourself.
@15
If your only way of showing respect and celebrate your heroes is by making statues of them, I am sorry to inform you that you are hundrends years back in mentality.
I can name you tenths of Greek heroes that dont have a statue in their memory. Get over that naive and childise "argument" you assume you found. Heroes arent celebrated with statues, but in the memory of the people that keeps them alive.
@16
How on earth this supposed "great orthodox unity" came in our conversation? Who is talking about that? I have told you many times, that religious bonds are not the factor here. I myself blame the curch as an instution for most of the bad things that have happened to Greece and oy civilisation. In general i blame all those people that take advantage of religion to lure naive people in fanaticism. Even fyrom is using its own church to establish a link with older times. That is low.
You albanians think, or some have made you think, that you can blame all the rest for whatever happens to you, when in fact it is you that you cause everything to yourself and then you go around like cry babies and ask for compensations.
thanks to greece and its politic toward makedonia.makedonians this year chose not to go to greece for holidays but to go to the beaches of albania.And they were enchanted with their holidays,and the way albanians welcomed them:so they understood that it's better for them to have good relation with albania,for many problems,than to have with greek who is only trying to block makedonia...
@19
Thats great news!!!!
I am sure the hundrends of millions of euros that will flow in albania from fyromian tourists alone, will boost the albanian economy sky high!!!!
I am really very happy for both of you guys :)
I guess that was the reason why rooms in Makedonia were full of rich tourists and finally the owners there were smilling...
'The Greek' is right. The Serbs should stop recognizing Macedonia as a name for FYROM. But then again FYROMians are among the few of Serbia's neighbors that don't hate it. Their 'language' is nothing more than a Bulgarian dialect strongly influenced by Serbian. This is why a FYROMian and a Bulgarian from Bulgarian Macedonia have trouble understanding each other when they talk about more sophisticated things. Neologisms in FYROMian are of Serbian origin while those in Bulgarian are of Russian origi. You should also remember that Yugoslavia tried to steal Aegean Macedonia from Greece during the Greek civil war. I really can't understand why there is so much love between Greeks and Serbs. Must be the common religion.
Macedonia might recognize Kosovo not because they believe it belongs to the Albanians, but because they feel pressure from all sides. To the North, Kosovo, to the west, Albania, to the east, Bulgaria, to the south, Greece. Not only that, but internal Albanian pressure and overseas American pressure is bringing this brave nation to its knees.
The Greeks should allow the Macedonians to move back into their homes they cleansed them away from.
The Serbs should recognize the Macedonian Church.
The Macedonians should NOT recognize Kosovo.
KOSOVO IS SERBIAN, NOT ALBANIAN.
MACEDONIA IS MACEDONIAN, NOT GREEK.
Serbia has only accepted their state of Macedonia to secede but nothing about the name has been accepted or rejected. This is up to Greece and FYROM to decide.
Why are you claiming that Serbia has accepted anything other than secession?
I was about to answer to The Greek and above all to Nikitas, but I guess I am not able to do it better than the Romanian:
"You should also remember that Yugoslavia tried to steal Aegean Macedonia from Greece during the Greek civil war. I really can't understand why there is so much love between Greeks and Serbs. Must be the common religion."
(Romanian, 7 September 2008 18:41)
P.S. teh fact of the expansionist plans of Yugo/Serbia to the Aegean Greece, were also rememebred by your FM Bakoyannis in her articke in IH Tribune
http://www.iht.com/articles/2008/03/31/opinion/edbakoy.php
I think the lack of unity of the albanian community in macedonia has delayed the recognition of Kosovo by macedonian authorities. Macedonia considering its demographics should have taken the lead in recognition. I don't think that the albanians in general should be dissappointed with the fact that the wave of recognition isn't in progress. Why would other countries that compose no albanian community that forms a major minority would recognize Kosovo when the albanians themselvs don't recognize it.
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