Priština: ICJ initiative doomed

So these puppets in Pristina will ignore the ruling of the International court? No surprises there really. When have criminals ever respected the law?

I'm very iritated with some comments from Serb side, when they write; Pristina puppets, criminals, terrorists and other offences for Albanians citizens from kosva.
What are you expecting that Albanians are willing to stay in Serbia after this kind of treatment.
NO

"the initiative is doomed" they say; I wonder why they do no divulge exactly why they believe this because as I have been reading the support for the intitiative is strong among many countries around the world and EU also fears it because it will undermine the countries who recognised "kosova" as criminals.

Serbia's southern province Kosovo and Metohija is going through a troublesum period of occupation at this moment in time but I beg people not tot think that this will go on for ever since something so ill-concieved can never prosper.

The only thing doomed here is the perception of independance.

The ICJ will rule on behalf of the albanians. Albanians has morally right to be indpendent and nothing says that the territory of Kosovo belongs to a president in Serbia. Kosovo belongs to the people in Kosovo wich are 93 % albanians. The 7% minority in Kosovo have greater right than the majority in Serbia.


Serbia has no right to keep Kosovo. The two million citizens in Kosovo are against it and are ready to go to war for it. And ofcourse they are because the last decade they haved lived in great fear from serbian paramilitary troops.



Kosovo with US and EU help will be a devolepment democratic nation with great rights for its people. Serbia cannot stop this because it's God's will.

I never really gave much credibility to the authorities in Pristina, so I give little credibility to their predictions on the ICJ as well as their over-reliant expectations of other countries to do their own work.

Gentelman, please don't jump to a conclusion do quick. Even if ICJ decides to take the case and deal with it, it will take about 2-3 years to rule on it. The verdict will be that ICJ has no juristiction to decide on this matter or it will be in favour of Kosovo.

It's very obvious what serbs think for Albanian-Kosovars and what they were thinking during these 100 years.
what I am telling you is:See you in Europe

Best predictor for the future is the past. What progress did you notice during your ~25 Years life?
You'll be dead and gone, waiting for your "reall life" to start in Serbia/Kosovo so get out and leave this smashing-heads-playground to those who enjoy it!
(Stoning R., 3 September 2008 13:47)

Mr. Stoning,

I do not know where you are from and to be honest I have no wish to know.

Have you ever been to Serbia? or to that matter the Balkans in general? If so were you there 25 years ago and please all of us here would like to know the factual basis of your comments.

Times have been tough for a number of years but I for one would rather be in the Balkans as opposed to being in the 'WEST' with its huge recession problems. It is so depressing in the UK at the moment.

To the Albanians who claim Serbia will lose the case because of some "moral right the Albanians have" over Kosovo.

This is absurd. No where in Internationa law, which the ICJ interprets is such crap mentioned. In fact if you read international law it is on Serbia's sign. Whether it be the UN Charter, Resolution 1244, the Badinter Commission opinions on secession of states, and of course the Helinski Final Accord.

Hello Peggy. It's nice to be back debating you. Now, before I answer your question (despite your opinion of the albanians, many of us are polite enough) allow me to comment a bit your answer. You picked the politically correct answer but aded a "but" there. That "but" involved north of Kosovo. You should know that the north of Kosovo would bring into question the Preshevo valley. Are the serbs prepared for that? In addition to that, if Kosovo became a more ethnically pure country, what would hapen to the extended political rights of the serbs that live in southern parts of Kosovo? Now to answer your question. Serbia as well as Kosovo see their future in EU which would actually limit their soverenity as they know it today, so I would not see a big problem If Kosovo And Serbia held a union like Serbia and Montenegro had a few years ago because that's what they are going to have under EU anyway. The problem is however that, judging from the past 96 years and most commentators in this forum the serbs love Kosovo but without the albanians inside. Allow me another question. How do you convince the albanians that thhis time would be diferent.

Dear young and/or educated Serbs/Albanians, try to leave Kosovo and Serbia by any means. You'll find a better future anywhere anyhow!

Best predictor for the future is the past. What progress did you notice during your ~25 Years life?
You'll be dead and gone, waiting for your "reall life" to start in Serbia/Kosovo so get out and leave this smashing-heads-playground to those who enjoy it!

In 25 years we see an independent Republic of Kosovo with its' own laws, police, justice system, health care, borders, etc. For the first time we are seeing Kosovars leading their own lives, no more orders from Belgrade or anywhere else. The only difference now is the perception of Kosovar-Serbs that "one day" Serbia will reclaim Republic of Kosova (Kosovo) again.

hmmm..i wouldn't be so sure that it is doomed; it seems that there are more than couple of signals around the world which say that it makes sense calling it a 'good initiative'.
It is very simple: we do and continue to do what we can- to claim what is ours.
Kosovo IS ours.
And persistence will bring results, maybe in 100 years from now as this gentlemen here points out (in a somewhat different context).
The robber (if he/she is known of course, and here it is) cannot expect to keep hold on a stolen property of another subject.
So US/EU/K-Albanians should not waste too many words with 'unique', 'special', 'sui generis' case that Kosovo is. There is nothing special about Kosovo except that military base Camp Bondsteel.
Every now and then they should be reminded that world knows how they've gained their independence:Illegally.
Well, that's exactly how they will loose it.

"The ICJ will rule on behalf of the albanians. Albanians has morally right to be indpendent and nothing says that the territory of Kosovo belongs to a president in Serbia. Kosovo belongs to the people in Kosovo wich are 93 % albanians. The 7% minority in Kosovo have greater right than the majority in Serbia.


Serbia has no right to keep Kosovo. The two million citizens in Kosovo are against it and are ready to go to war for it. And ofcourse they are because the last decade they haved lived in great fear from serbian paramilitary troops."

dear Adam,

you say this ICJ initiative gonna will be answered on behalf to the Albanians.

so, if you are so sure of that, why are you threatening with war then? :)

Serbia has no right to keep Kosovo, you say.

so, if you are right, then not only Serbia is wrong, but also international laws, norms, agreements and treaties.

I would love to read some really convincing REASON why you think that Serbia has no right to keep it´s OWN TERRITORY.

and, please don´t take it as an offense, but saying an independent Kosovo is "God´s will" ... is simply nonsense.

and if that is all you can contribute here... I am really very confident that albanian "argumuments" won´t succeed.

you will learn to accept serbian citizenship. it´s only a question of time.

in the end, you will even profit of it. but it´s still too early for that.

but it will happen.

I am albanian, but this time I will side with the serbs. They have the right to use all diplomatic means to get Kosovo back, so they have the right to ask for ICJ opinion on the independence. On the other hand I have to ask serbs a question: If as improbable as it might seem to you, the ICJ rules in favor of the independence would you be willing to recognize the independent country of Kosovo?
(Landi, 4 September 2008 00:14)
No man.....If ICJ recognizes Kosovo's action as according to international law, you'll hear serbs calling the judges as biased anti-serbian puppets, bribed by the K-Albanian mafia or givin in under US/UK pressure.

I am albanian, but this time I will side with the serbs. They have the right to use all diplomatic means to get Kosovo back, so they have the right to ask for ICJ opinion on the independence. On the other hand I have to ask serbs a question: If as improbable as it might seem to you, the ICJ rules in favor of the independence would you be willing to recognize the independent country of Kosovo?

Stoning R;
Spot on, the whole region minus Slovenia is going for the dust bin, I would recommend like you to any fair minded person to pack and leave. I on my part was a fool to even consider coming here 5 years ago trying to live a "normal" life, I have been totally screwed and wasted my best years hoping for change and normality.
On the other hand ( I have four fingers and a thumb..:) )noone is to blame.

On the other hand I have to ask serbs a question: If as improbable as it might seem to you, the ICJ rules in favor of the independence would you be willing to recognize the independent country of Kosovo?
(Landi, 4 September 2008 00:14)

The answer to your question is YES. But then, using the same reason the north has every right to secede from the rest of Kosovo creating great conditions for RS to secede from Bosnia etc.etc.

Now, I ask you a question. If ICJ rules that Kosovo does not have the right to secede, are you prepared to abandon this idea of independent Kosovo?
I have been polite enough to answer you question, will you be polite enought to answer mine?

Dear Bahrain Bound,

Most "Balkanians" would be very thankfull to get a sesional job in a "downfalling" western Economy. I would like to remind you that people in Kosovo are living with power-cuts for at least 10h a day, no water supply and have to buy the medicine by themselves and then go to the doc.
In the '80s Yugoslavia (Serbia in particular) used to be a modern country with living standart compareable to West-Europe, doing better than Hungary, Poland and even than Greece and Spain, You have well educated engineers forced to harvest plums to manage daily life. It is not the individuals fault for this misery, but the individual has to bear it..
Therefore to everyone: You have only one single life, make the best out of it, don't sacrifice yourself for this stupid game.
-GO WEST!

Someone correct me if I am wrong, but what Serbia is doing is asking for the *opinion* of ICJ - isn't that by definition non-binding (hence why it's called an OPINION)?

Let's suppose for a minute that ICJ rules in favor of the people of Kosova (uphold that Kosovar authorities acted within international law in declaring independence, given it was the will of the people, taking the historical context of the situation into account) - then what? Is Serbia going to drop the whole cry-baby attitude, cry a river, build a bridge and get over it? Or is this just another stunt at scoring political points with domestic robots, while using up the last resort of any political leverage they have left? I am sure Serbia has brighter people than this ...

I just wish this idiocy would stop - Kosovars and Serbs have become the laughing stock of the Balkans; medical supplies being blocked because of some lunatic wanting to make a political statement by refusing to obtain a proper license, Serbia treating their Albanian minority (other minorities too unfortunately) like dirt. I do hope that all this will become a thing of the past and have our people move on to better things. How about doing business together? Yeah, let's talk EUROs and Dinars...

"That'll be the day"

It's easy for kuqi to undermine serbia under nato protection; he forgets that he is exercising power in the occupied serbian land;
on the other hand i congratulate the only voice of reason here ( no.16 landi) for this is the way to communicate in a civilized manner; i am a serb but bravo landi!

Let me put this on the table as a thought of someone who is outside this dispute.

To start with, I strongly believe that Kossovo is Serbian lands (for many historical and scientific reasons) and it should stay this way.
Also, I strongly believe that the territorial integrity of ANY country is sacred and shouldnt be compromised using any kinds of legal or illegal tricks.

On the other hand, I am wondering.
In the Kossovo area resides a big albanian community. And from what I read in here and from what is in the news worldwide, the 2 communities (albanian and Serbian) do not really like to live by each other or under the same roof. Now what I understand is that the law, whatever kind of law - international, moral, ethical, you name it - is on the side of the Serbians, but I am afraid that for Kossovo to remain a part of Serbia needs manythings to happen and many years to pass. Otherwise it is an illusion for the Serbs to believe that the albanians in Kossovo will sit like nice and good kids and do not do everything in their hands to create trouble, in the case that Kossovo remains a Serbian region.
And I am wondering. If nothing changes in the way people (both Serbs and albanians) think about each other, then what is the point of keeping Kossovo in Serbia? I understand the rights on the lands that is a sacred one, I would probably be, much more upset and angry and insulted than you are if that was happening here, but I would like you to think practically for a while.
Sometime ago someone asked me if I would like to see Konstantinople being Greek again. And I answered definately no. It is our heritage, our history, our tradition, but can you really tame 12 mil Turks and some thousands Greeks, or can you expel them all just to say you got your heritage back? And so what?

I hope the more open minded people in here can see my point and not just start flaming, because this is not the post's purpose. I know on whose side the right is, but I can see the practical everyday troubles it create also.

NOW, if Serbia want to take this case to ICJ they can but as many diplomats around said "if you ask for an opinion/conclusion, then you need to accept it" and Serbia does not have a chance "the Serb propaganda which similar to the Russian is not working and will never work.

The ICJ will rule on behalf of the albanians. Albanians has morally right to be indpendent and nothing says that the territory of Kosovo belongs to a president in Serbia. Kosovo belongs to the people in Kosovo wich are 93 % albanians. The 7% minority in Kosovo have greater right than the majority in Serbia.


Serbia has no right to keep Kosovo. The two million citizens in Kosovo are against it and are ready to go to war for it. And ofcourse they are because the last decade they haved lived in great fear from serbian paramilitary troops.



Kosovo with US and EU help will be a devolepment democratic nation with great rights for its people. Serbia cannot stop this because it's God's will.

I'm very iritated with some comments from Serb side, when they write; Pristina puppets, criminals, terrorists and other offences for Albanians citizens from kosva.
What are you expecting that Albanians are willing to stay in Serbia after this kind of treatment.
NO

So these puppets in Pristina will ignore the ruling of the International court? No surprises there really. When have criminals ever respected the law?

In 25 years we see an independent Republic of Kosovo with its' own laws, police, justice system, health care, borders, etc. For the first time we are seeing Kosovars leading their own lives, no more orders from Belgrade or anywhere else. The only difference now is the perception of Kosovar-Serbs that "one day" Serbia will reclaim Republic of Kosova (Kosovo) again.

"the initiative is doomed" they say; I wonder why they do no divulge exactly why they believe this because as I have been reading the support for the intitiative is strong among many countries around the world and EU also fears it because it will undermine the countries who recognised "kosova" as criminals.

Serbia's southern province Kosovo and Metohija is going through a troublesum period of occupation at this moment in time but I beg people not tot think that this will go on for ever since something so ill-concieved can never prosper.

Gentelman, please don't jump to a conclusion do quick. Even if ICJ decides to take the case and deal with it, it will take about 2-3 years to rule on it. The verdict will be that ICJ has no juristiction to decide on this matter or it will be in favour of Kosovo.

Dear young and/or educated Serbs/Albanians, try to leave Kosovo and Serbia by any means. You'll find a better future anywhere anyhow!

Best predictor for the future is the past. What progress did you notice during your ~25 Years life?
You'll be dead and gone, waiting for your "reall life" to start in Serbia/Kosovo so get out and leave this smashing-heads-playground to those who enjoy it!

Stoning R;
Spot on, the whole region minus Slovenia is going for the dust bin, I would recommend like you to any fair minded person to pack and leave. I on my part was a fool to even consider coming here 5 years ago trying to live a "normal" life, I have been totally screwed and wasted my best years hoping for change and normality.
On the other hand ( I have four fingers and a thumb..:) )noone is to blame.

It's very obvious what serbs think for Albanian-Kosovars and what they were thinking during these 100 years.
what I am telling you is:See you in Europe

I am albanian, but this time I will side with the serbs. They have the right to use all diplomatic means to get Kosovo back, so they have the right to ask for ICJ opinion on the independence. On the other hand I have to ask serbs a question: If as improbable as it might seem to you, the ICJ rules in favor of the independence would you be willing to recognize the independent country of Kosovo?
(Landi, 4 September 2008 00:14)
No man.....If ICJ recognizes Kosovo's action as according to international law, you'll hear serbs calling the judges as biased anti-serbian puppets, bribed by the K-Albanian mafia or givin in under US/UK pressure.

Best predictor for the future is the past. What progress did you notice during your ~25 Years life?
You'll be dead and gone, waiting for your "reall life" to start in Serbia/Kosovo so get out and leave this smashing-heads-playground to those who enjoy it!
(Stoning R., 3 September 2008 13:47)

Mr. Stoning,

I do not know where you are from and to be honest I have no wish to know.

Have you ever been to Serbia? or to that matter the Balkans in general? If so were you there 25 years ago and please all of us here would like to know the factual basis of your comments.

Times have been tough for a number of years but I for one would rather be in the Balkans as opposed to being in the 'WEST' with its huge recession problems. It is so depressing in the UK at the moment.

The only thing doomed here is the perception of independance.

I never really gave much credibility to the authorities in Pristina, so I give little credibility to their predictions on the ICJ as well as their over-reliant expectations of other countries to do their own work.

hmmm..i wouldn't be so sure that it is doomed; it seems that there are more than couple of signals around the world which say that it makes sense calling it a 'good initiative'.
It is very simple: we do and continue to do what we can- to claim what is ours.
Kosovo IS ours.
And persistence will bring results, maybe in 100 years from now as this gentlemen here points out (in a somewhat different context).
The robber (if he/she is known of course, and here it is) cannot expect to keep hold on a stolen property of another subject.
So US/EU/K-Albanians should not waste too many words with 'unique', 'special', 'sui generis' case that Kosovo is. There is nothing special about Kosovo except that military base Camp Bondsteel.
Every now and then they should be reminded that world knows how they've gained their independence:Illegally.
Well, that's exactly how they will loose it.

To the Albanians who claim Serbia will lose the case because of some "moral right the Albanians have" over Kosovo.

This is absurd. No where in Internationa law, which the ICJ interprets is such crap mentioned. In fact if you read international law it is on Serbia's sign. Whether it be the UN Charter, Resolution 1244, the Badinter Commission opinions on secession of states, and of course the Helinski Final Accord.

"The ICJ will rule on behalf of the albanians. Albanians has morally right to be indpendent and nothing says that the territory of Kosovo belongs to a president in Serbia. Kosovo belongs to the people in Kosovo wich are 93 % albanians. The 7% minority in Kosovo have greater right than the majority in Serbia.


Serbia has no right to keep Kosovo. The two million citizens in Kosovo are against it and are ready to go to war for it. And ofcourse they are because the last decade they haved lived in great fear from serbian paramilitary troops."

dear Adam,

you say this ICJ initiative gonna will be answered on behalf to the Albanians.

so, if you are so sure of that, why are you threatening with war then? :)

Serbia has no right to keep Kosovo, you say.

so, if you are right, then not only Serbia is wrong, but also international laws, norms, agreements and treaties.

I would love to read some really convincing REASON why you think that Serbia has no right to keep it´s OWN TERRITORY.

and, please don´t take it as an offense, but saying an independent Kosovo is "God´s will" ... is simply nonsense.

and if that is all you can contribute here... I am really very confident that albanian "argumuments" won´t succeed.

you will learn to accept serbian citizenship. it´s only a question of time.

in the end, you will even profit of it. but it´s still too early for that.

but it will happen.

I am albanian, but this time I will side with the serbs. They have the right to use all diplomatic means to get Kosovo back, so they have the right to ask for ICJ opinion on the independence. On the other hand I have to ask serbs a question: If as improbable as it might seem to you, the ICJ rules in favor of the independence would you be willing to recognize the independent country of Kosovo?

Someone correct me if I am wrong, but what Serbia is doing is asking for the *opinion* of ICJ - isn't that by definition non-binding (hence why it's called an OPINION)?

Let's suppose for a minute that ICJ rules in favor of the people of Kosova (uphold that Kosovar authorities acted within international law in declaring independence, given it was the will of the people, taking the historical context of the situation into account) - then what? Is Serbia going to drop the whole cry-baby attitude, cry a river, build a bridge and get over it? Or is this just another stunt at scoring political points with domestic robots, while using up the last resort of any political leverage they have left? I am sure Serbia has brighter people than this ...

I just wish this idiocy would stop - Kosovars and Serbs have become the laughing stock of the Balkans; medical supplies being blocked because of some lunatic wanting to make a political statement by refusing to obtain a proper license, Serbia treating their Albanian minority (other minorities too unfortunately) like dirt. I do hope that all this will become a thing of the past and have our people move on to better things. How about doing business together? Yeah, let's talk EUROs and Dinars...

"That'll be the day"

On the other hand I have to ask serbs a question: If as improbable as it might seem to you, the ICJ rules in favor of the independence would you be willing to recognize the independent country of Kosovo?
(Landi, 4 September 2008 00:14)

The answer to your question is YES. But then, using the same reason the north has every right to secede from the rest of Kosovo creating great conditions for RS to secede from Bosnia etc.etc.

Now, I ask you a question. If ICJ rules that Kosovo does not have the right to secede, are you prepared to abandon this idea of independent Kosovo?
I have been polite enough to answer you question, will you be polite enought to answer mine?

It's easy for kuqi to undermine serbia under nato protection; he forgets that he is exercising power in the occupied serbian land;
on the other hand i congratulate the only voice of reason here ( no.16 landi) for this is the way to communicate in a civilized manner; i am a serb but bravo landi!

Let me put this on the table as a thought of someone who is outside this dispute.

To start with, I strongly believe that Kossovo is Serbian lands (for many historical and scientific reasons) and it should stay this way.
Also, I strongly believe that the territorial integrity of ANY country is sacred and shouldnt be compromised using any kinds of legal or illegal tricks.

On the other hand, I am wondering.
In the Kossovo area resides a big albanian community. And from what I read in here and from what is in the news worldwide, the 2 communities (albanian and Serbian) do not really like to live by each other or under the same roof. Now what I understand is that the law, whatever kind of law - international, moral, ethical, you name it - is on the side of the Serbians, but I am afraid that for Kossovo to remain a part of Serbia needs manythings to happen and many years to pass. Otherwise it is an illusion for the Serbs to believe that the albanians in Kossovo will sit like nice and good kids and do not do everything in their hands to create trouble, in the case that Kossovo remains a Serbian region.
And I am wondering. If nothing changes in the way people (both Serbs and albanians) think about each other, then what is the point of keeping Kossovo in Serbia? I understand the rights on the lands that is a sacred one, I would probably be, much more upset and angry and insulted than you are if that was happening here, but I would like you to think practically for a while.
Sometime ago someone asked me if I would like to see Konstantinople being Greek again. And I answered definately no. It is our heritage, our history, our tradition, but can you really tame 12 mil Turks and some thousands Greeks, or can you expel them all just to say you got your heritage back? And so what?

I hope the more open minded people in here can see my point and not just start flaming, because this is not the post's purpose. I know on whose side the right is, but I can see the practical everyday troubles it create also.

Hello Peggy. It's nice to be back debating you. Now, before I answer your question (despite your opinion of the albanians, many of us are polite enough) allow me to comment a bit your answer. You picked the politically correct answer but aded a "but" there. That "but" involved north of Kosovo. You should know that the north of Kosovo would bring into question the Preshevo valley. Are the serbs prepared for that? In addition to that, if Kosovo became a more ethnically pure country, what would hapen to the extended political rights of the serbs that live in southern parts of Kosovo? Now to answer your question. Serbia as well as Kosovo see their future in EU which would actually limit their soverenity as they know it today, so I would not see a big problem If Kosovo And Serbia held a union like Serbia and Montenegro had a few years ago because that's what they are going to have under EU anyway. The problem is however that, judging from the past 96 years and most commentators in this forum the serbs love Kosovo but without the albanians inside. Allow me another question. How do you convince the albanians that thhis time would be diferent.

Dear Bahrain Bound,

Most "Balkanians" would be very thankfull to get a sesional job in a "downfalling" western Economy. I would like to remind you that people in Kosovo are living with power-cuts for at least 10h a day, no water supply and have to buy the medicine by themselves and then go to the doc.
In the '80s Yugoslavia (Serbia in particular) used to be a modern country with living standart compareable to West-Europe, doing better than Hungary, Poland and even than Greece and Spain, You have well educated engineers forced to harvest plums to manage daily life. It is not the individuals fault for this misery, but the individual has to bear it..
Therefore to everyone: You have only one single life, make the best out of it, don't sacrifice yourself for this stupid game.
-GO WEST!

NOW, if Serbia want to take this case to ICJ they can but as many diplomats around said "if you ask for an opinion/conclusion, then you need to accept it" and Serbia does not have a chance "the Serb propaganda which similar to the Russian is not working and will never work.