MFA expresses "concern" over Caucasus

This is so simple. Georgia signed an agreement that said they would allow Russian peacekeepers in and not be involved in south Ossetia and abkhazie and then the Georgian government violated that by attacking and invading S Ossetia. Serbia agreed to the UN and nato going into Kosovo and has made no military moves to reclaim the regions. When Georgia violated the peace keeping agreement it signed it lost the rights to those territories. So Serbia still has a right to Kosovo because it as kept its word but Georgia hasn’t and it has lost.

These recognitions could be good for Serbia. Could effectively shut down further recognitions of Kosovo. Russia knows others won't recognise and is simply forcing the international community to develop a consistent approach to territorial integrity.

Hm ... I wonder whether Serbs will now name Abhasia and Ossetia as "Russian military barracks", "black holes of Caucasus", "mafia statelets" etc, all terms used to slame Kosovo with?

So, Kosovo got independent, Russia gave independence to South Ossetia and Abhazia, which they were already controlling, and west now has an even stronger hold of Georgia, right under the nose of Russia. Azerbaijan and Ukraine will move even closer to US and EU... Some big win for Russia, eheh!

You get into these kind of situation when you alley with bullies.

It is allways much safer to alley with democracies. However, in the democracy the sovreignity comes from the ppl not form how many tanks the bully has.

Very funny situation for Serbia :)

True face of so called “modern” Russia!
Hypocrisy and double standard.
The Russian do not care about freedom and democracy and never mind international law.
The west more than once had made it clear that Kosovo should be treated as an exceptional case, because of his history and the failure to come to an agreement for 10 years talks and negotiation between Albanians and Serbs.
Also there is an international plan which the Russian were part of it. Athisari plan was achieved with the Russian on board.
The West tried many times to come to an agreement with Moscow and Beograd itself regarding Kosovo status.
What did Russia do? 1 week after occupying Georgia they recognize a region as an independent country with 70.000 habitants? Did they ever try to come to an agreement with Georgia? Did they ever ask for UN to have a say?
How dare they make comparison with Kosovo?
How pathetic is to blame the West for it? The Russian are making a terrible mistake. All the former east Europeans countries do not have any trust left in Russia.
Even the Belarusian are realising the threat that Russia have to their freedom and independence.
I sincerely hope that the politician in Serbia become conscious of the Moscow double standards and witness how badly they were make use of the so called “ally” !!!!

This is just not the same dispute.
Those two were independent before Stalin, Kosovo has never been independant. With Stalin in power, they joined Georgia without their will while Kosovo was part of Serbian state in the past and now it is getting away by crude will of the US.

Serbia does not need to recognise South Ossetia and Abkhazia just like Georgia has not recognised Kosovo. There are no problems there but it does open the prospect of Srpska Republika being recognised as independent some time in the near future.

I expect the government to remain silent and allow the world to see what damage the Kosovo precedent has caused throughout the world. This will work in the favour of both Serbia and Russia - two powers within their respective regions.

The tide has well and truly turned against the West. And besides, the Olympics are over so I also expect China to get into gear shortly.

I don't understand why are Albanians blowing this out of proportion.

The answer is clear.. Serbia wants to stick to international law, this is clear.. so its clear that Serbia will not recognize these breakaway regions.


Most Serbs realize that South Ossetia and Abkhazia deserve independence but that still doesn't mean we will recognize.


Besides, when did Russia ever tell Serbia it wants it to recognize Kosovo.. just like the EU understood Spain's, Slovakia's, Romania's, Cyprus's and Greece's positions on Kosovo... Russia will understand Serbia's position on Georgia's breakaway provinces.


End of story.. no real issue here.

Wow, even though it may seem that serbia has now been put in between a rock and a hard place; I really think that serbia can use the situation to its advantage.
The best thing to do now would be to satisfy both its great ally Russia, by recognizing South Ossetia and Abkhazia, and to increase its likelyhood of getting into the EU by recognizing the Republic of Kosovo. Its really a win-win situation. As opposed to making enemies on both sides of the world, best to be aligned with both. Kosovo is lost anyways. Might as well concentrate on more important things like the economy and education and the improvement of the standard of life for its citizens.

Serbia, yet again stuck between a rock and a hard place.

So much for counting on your Russian brothers.

There will be no affect on serbia of Russia's recognition of S.O. S.O IS FROZEN CONFLICT and needed to be sorted at some stage after the break up of the USSR- Russia had strong interests there and Georgia started the aggression. whereas in Kosovo foreigners eg USA who had no previous business in the region attacked for political and disputed 'humanitarian' reasons and bombed serbia illegally for 78 days. USA/parts of EU have ridiculed international law and as such it now seems that there is no law. Lets hope the americans aren't stupid enough to start WW3 but then we have been lied to time and time again by the USA, the only thing Bush is good at is starting wars which he can't finish.The UN is finished as is International law.

Serbia is on the wrong side.
Recognising or not South Ossetia and Abkhazia will only deteriorate Serbia's position.

The only way Serbia can score little bit more points is by immediately recognising Kosovo, and postponing decision for recognising South Ossetia and Abkhazia.

Good luck

Now you serbs you have to understand that Putin used you for his interest. Putin will continue to keep you in this position as long as he need you to do so.

The news makes me enjoy. From tomorrow, anyone can have a "republic". Serbian sindrom spreads thorughout the world.

ilir,
it has been nearly 20, YES nearly TWENTY years that russia and georgia and the UN have been trying to resolve this conflict between Georgia and it's two breakaway provinces of south ossetia and abkhazia. it would seem that the west has had more oppurtuntity to help solve these problems than they had with the kosovo-serbia problem, which was nearly 10 years -- my basic math skills would seem to suggest that the georgian problem has been around for nearly twice as long as the serbian problem, but please type that into you calculator and confirm it for me.
both georgian and serbian breakaway provinces were being monitoried by outside forces since the beginings of their respecitive conflicts. both monitors were backed and brokered by the un, but one was nato controlled and the other russian controlled, neither was UN controlled. So it seems that though these to problems were different, the similarities are striking. both breakaway regions were under pressure from their containing country, both sets of regions have claimed ethnic cleansing and genocidal attempts occured, directed at them by their respective containing nation, both set seem very similar again.
yes, but ofcourse the differences that i can see are the 1 case the people were serbian and albanian, and in the other case the people were georgian and ossetia and abkhazian. yes that is difference enough... you are correct, how dare they... how dare the kosovar population not support another population suffering under strikingly similar conditions to those of their own plight. how dare they stand by idlely with no regard for others that are suffering. how dare they not share the same gift that they were given with other peoples that need it? Yes how do they dare, well maybe because they are affraid that if they offer help to other unfortunates that they will lose their backing? they are either being bullied into ignoring their sense of decency or they do not care for anybody else, which would certainly say alot for the population of kosovo, and their claim that they will be able to care for the number of minorities within its currently temporarily recognized borders.
and ben,
it seems odd that you're not including the us, uk and nato in your list of bullies. us are currently in a occupation excersice of iraq. nato, us and uk are working on occupying afganistan, and nato illegally carried out a 79 day bombing campaign of serbian in 1999, just to mention three instances of bullying. if my simplistic understanding of these so called freedoms that you have in your democracies is correct, compared to that of those you are implying, then one should be free to walk into your home, destroy what they saw fit, and take over occupancy, as long as you cooperate you can have the sofa, but once you defy, then you get kicked out after a solid beating ofcourse? if so, please let me know where you live, i could use a second place. russia may look like they're bullying, no real arguments there, but do not preach from you painted over ivory tower, for underneath every layer of ivory paint there are stains of the blood nationed bullied by your democracies.
at the end of the day, if kosovo is lost from serbia because the kosovar population was unable to live with the serbian population, then similarly if the south ossetia and abkhazian populations cannot live with the georgian populations they should be lost from georgia. why do these poor people have to suffer, and why are then not allowed to live as they see fit? is this not the highest form of your presious democracy that you speak so highly of? the freedom of choice?

"The ministry continues that "it can be surmised, with regret, that these predictions have come true".
That is a Serbia joke about how "predictible" is Serbia when it comes to international law))
Russia has annexed both South Osetia and Abkahzia. Whether Georgia has got guts to put a fierce fight to re-gain the control...I don't know. Time will tell but if Georgia considers these two provinces its part....should fight for it and fight realy hard.

jazzy jeff,

I tell you why it is pathetic to compare Kosovo with the region in Georgia.
1) During the 90’ when the USRR was divided (as in case of ex Yug) fighting broke out because people in that region did not want to be part of Georgia. A peace deal was made between Georgia and Russia. Peace keeping troops from Russia where base in the region granting peace and security for the local habitants. This never was the case for Kosovo after the 90’ when their autonomy was removed by Milosevic.
2) When the Georgian started fighting the West asked for the fighting to stop from the both side.
Everyone was calling in the west for a peaceful solution. Therefore you should understand that the West did not encourage Georgia to start fighting, or ignore the suffering of the local habitants. This never was the case with Russia in Kosovo, which if I may remind you in the late 90’ supported Serbia war against the people in Kosovo. I still remember their diplomats claiming that Kosovo is a Serbian “internal affair”.
Furthermore a peace treaty was broken from the president Sarkozy of France. The treaty was signed by Russia and the point 6 stated that future international talk needs to be held, regarding the future of the regions.
Clearly Russia did not respect this point and now the West can not trust Russia president Medved in any future dealings.
Another thing is that the Russia justifies their military intervention to protect the Russian living outside their borders. Just imagine if Albania would have done the same in Kosovo or Macedonia in the late 90’!!!
And how about the Chinese do the same for their minority in Russia?
And don’t get me started with Europe as we all know how diverse it is.


As an Albanian I’m a firm believer that you can not force people to live under the rule of another country. However every attempt needs to be made to respect international borders. Every attempt need to be made to respect and obey international law.
In this case no attempt was made by the Russian to respect the international community.
This is the main deference. The Russian will come to greatly regret this action.
Don’t forget that Kosovo clearly aspires to be part of the EU as Serbia, and be part of a democratic EU.
These are not the case for Russia as we all know that Chechnya or either region inside Russia will look closely to this case.

Georgia felt pressure from USA to recognize Kosovo and they did not. Russia knows better than not to ask Serbia to recognize. All of these "large" countries are setting double standards! Serbia knows they can not recognize Georgia's seperatist provinces. Then again you never know what Belgrade is thinking.

Confusion right?...

Yes, Serbs need time to think on their own....

and they will come to conclusion that Russia is after interests, not principles...

Indeed, difficult position....

"The Republic of Serbia officials have continuously warned that the unilateral declaration of independence of Kosovo and Metohija, just as the recognitions of this illegal act, could have the nature of a precedent and destabilize other regions in the world,"
Who is the new Nostradamos in Serbian MOF. Bravo very good prediction. You said it long ago Kosovo indipendence would serve as a precedent. Is it Jeremic. Bravo NovoNostradamus. Forget about Kosovo being indipendent now. Does not matter. IMPORTATANT is YOU WERE WRIGHT.

I read an article about how all of this was Washington's planning. Georgia knew that they could never control those regions, thus they put Russia in a situation that they have to react or else be viewed as a lame duck. At the same time the western media and the world portrays Russia as a bully and a power with no credibility when opposing certain U.S. policies, and at the same time destabilize Russia economically and isolate them.

Is this good politics for the U.S. it's hard to tell right now. It would have been better if Russia came to the west's fold but some people have their own agendas.

Serbs are in difficult position because very soon Russia will recognize Kosova's Independence soon. This what i am saying is not a joke but a reality, information taken by well believed sources.

I don't think Serbia has to support us in a direct form. One voice cannot help us very much but it can spoil the Serbia's positions in Kosovo issue. Serbia cannot afford such gifts to it's enemies. But Serbia can give us indirect moral support remaining within the frame of the formally existing international rules.

Say Serbia may declare that it will form it's stance depending on the developments over Kosovo issue. Also Serbia may stress at the differences in the crisises over KOSOVO where Albanians are mostly newcomers while OSSETIA & ABKHASIA which during 2000 years before Stalin had never belonged to Georgia.

Another difference is that even Slobo had no ideas of elimination of the Albanians while thousands of Georgian fascists came to kill all the Ossetians and were going to repeat it with the Abkhasians. Serbia has to remember that the West is totally impotent against Russia and we shall win in any case.
----------------------

Russia, Belarus, Iran, and Serbia. Not even Venezuela or Cuba will follow Russia. make up your mind, are you with your main supporter, Russia, or not? ;)

(Ilir, 27 August 2008 00:34)

"I tell you why it is pathetic to compare Kosovo with the region in Georgia.
1) During the 90’ when the USRR was divided (as in case of ex Yug) fighting broke out because people in that region did not want to be part of Georgia. A peace deal was made between Georgia and Russia. Peace keeping troops from Russia where base in the region granting peace and security for the local habitants. This never was the case for Kosovo after the 90’ when their autonomy was removed by Milosevic."

how can you compare the 1991-1992 South Ossetia War to the removal of Kosovo's autonomy? one was a violent conflict and the other a political maneuver.

"2) When the Georgian started fighting the West asked for the fighting to stop from the both side."

that's incorrect. western media portrayed it as a Russian occupation of Georgia.

"Everyone was calling in the west for a peaceful solution. Therefore you should understand that the West did not encourage Georgia to start fighting,"

how can you be so sure? the West had given Georgia military training, supplies, arms, and even had consultants stationed at strategic positions when Georgia decided to attack South Ossetia.

"Another thing is that the Russia justifies their military intervention to protect the Russian living outside their borders."

not only that. also to protect Russian peacekeepers which were attacked.

"Just imagine if Albania would have done the same in Kosovo or Macedonia in the late 90’!!!"

They did. via their western proxies.

"And how about the Chinese do the same for their minority in Russia?"

well then the opposing forces would be similar in size and would lead to WWIII.

"And don’t get me started with Europe as we all know how diverse it is."

Yes but hopefully with the EU umbrella that won't happen too soon.

"As an Albanian I’m a firm believer that you can not force people to live under the rule of another country. However every attempt needs to be made to respect international borders."

Really? I don't recall Kosovo Albanians attempting to respect international borders.

"Every attempt need to be made to respect and obey international law.
In this case no attempt was made by the Russian to respect the international community.
This is the main deference."

it seems to me you've got yourself tangled in double standards.

"The Russian will come to greatly regret this action."

how did you come to that conclusion?

"Don’t forget that Kosovo clearly aspires to be part of the EU as Serbia, and be part of a democratic EU."

we all know that Kosovo would have jumped on any bandwagon offering independence. just because the bandwagon it did jump on belonged to the "democratic" West, doesn't make it any more superior or justifiable than the Russian bandwagon the South Ossetians jumped on.

"These are not the case for Russia as we all know that Chechnya or either region inside Russia will look closely to this case."

Maybe, but all they will be doing is looking because the moment they decide to act they will be reminded who is in power.

same story as kosovo, different region, different powers.

Why should Russia respect international law if the West does not? It's obvious that protests and declarations did not produce any results.
In the case of Kosovo and Georgia (and Chechenya) the role of the US and some other countries is evident: they trained, armed and supported the UCK politically and through the media, as they did in Georgia.

It's amaising how fast you guys forget when in your favor. So you are the angels now. And who was the devil from 89-99?

i think this could be a concern for all of us with a US warship heading towards the Russians. Russia has pledged a military response for the missile defense shield. I dont think what is happening will do Serbia or Kosovo any good. For Kosovo the focus as shifted, recognitions will not be fast coming, for Serbia the world will see what she does. This could lead to the division of Kosovo, Bosnia and other areas of ethnic minorities. The US needs Russias support if its to engage Iran the last thing they need is Russia to supply arms to Iran.

Politically i can see comprimises being made on all sides (US-Russia)

The russians called it way in advance after Feb. They said the would cause problems, pandoras box if you will. No one listened, as far as I can see this the Russians never fooled anyone...they called it like they saw it. And now the west is crying 'foul' when Russia applies the same standard in another "frozen conflict" Serbia & Russia have every right and are right by saying " I told you so"

Let's see who else will recognize Ossetia and Abkhazia

Maybe you can count on Iran :-)

ilir,
are you trying to tell me that since 1999 kosovo was solely policed and monitored by serbian forces? -- "Peace keeping troops from Russia where base in the region granting peace and security for the local habitants. This never was the case for Kosovo after the 90’ when their autonomy was removed by Milosevic."
That's rather strange. I suppose that Nato loaned out their uniforms to the serbian policing unit. If however you agree with the reality that is and was on the ground, kosovo was protected by international peace keepers. Russians in georgia are international as well. THE SAME is it not?
If you can remember that the russian diplomats called kosovo a serbian internal affair, and you can hear that the us is calling south ossetia and abkhazia georgian internal affairs... again THE SAME
what level of attempts did the kosovar people make with the serbian people to obey international laws with respect to maintaining existing borders within a country that is already a formal member of the UN... furthermore, what attempts were made by the international community to protect the integral borders of the former country known as jugoslavia. NONE.
At the end of the day, if it is good for kosovo, then it is good for south ossetia and abkhazia.
Note one last point of interest. currently the US is willing to play their veto to deny south ossetia and abkhazia recognition within the UN. if this veto is to be played, then so will the veto of russia with respect to kosovo.
Essentially all that is happening, and it is evidently clear, is that the big boys are playing the large game of chess with the little pawns. Either all breakaways will be allowed, or none will because of the balance of powers.
kosovo, south ossetia, abkhazia, azerbajan , basque, etc... will remain frozen conflicts without proper resolution because the power that are in charge do not actually care for these region in as much as they care for their own power and egos.
i wish the best possible results for all the peoples of the world that want to be freed from tyrants. it's shameful to see a kosovar albanian crying for freedoms from a tyrant and condeming his fellow oppressed for asking for the same thing.
ilir it is shameful. you of all peoples should be fighting to help these other poor peoples, not condeming them.

It seems like the West knows only two ways to solve ethnic conflicts: either you crush them (like the Krajna) or you give them independence (like Kosovo). The West tried the Krajna variant in South Ossetia so Russia rewarded them with the Kosovo variant.

Of course the best is something in the middle - with real negotiations.

I think the best thing that Serbia can do now is to challenge Georgia to go to the ICJ. If the ICJ condemns the independence of its territories it will be with arguments that will fit quite good for Kosovo. Russia has actually helped Serbia in its quest for an ICJ opinion as it will make it clear for everyone that Kosovo is not a unique case. Serbia might even ask Georgia to cooperate to ask a common opinion on both areas at once.

Very funny situation for Serbia :)

Hm ... I wonder whether Serbs will now name Abhasia and Ossetia as "Russian military barracks", "black holes of Caucasus", "mafia statelets" etc, all terms used to slame Kosovo with?

So, Kosovo got independent, Russia gave independence to South Ossetia and Abhazia, which they were already controlling, and west now has an even stronger hold of Georgia, right under the nose of Russia. Azerbaijan and Ukraine will move even closer to US and EU... Some big win for Russia, eheh!

Serbia is on the wrong side.
Recognising or not South Ossetia and Abkhazia will only deteriorate Serbia's position.

The only way Serbia can score little bit more points is by immediately recognising Kosovo, and postponing decision for recognising South Ossetia and Abkhazia.

Good luck

True face of so called “modern” Russia!
Hypocrisy and double standard.
The Russian do not care about freedom and democracy and never mind international law.
The west more than once had made it clear that Kosovo should be treated as an exceptional case, because of his history and the failure to come to an agreement for 10 years talks and negotiation between Albanians and Serbs.
Also there is an international plan which the Russian were part of it. Athisari plan was achieved with the Russian on board.
The West tried many times to come to an agreement with Moscow and Beograd itself regarding Kosovo status.
What did Russia do? 1 week after occupying Georgia they recognize a region as an independent country with 70.000 habitants? Did they ever try to come to an agreement with Georgia? Did they ever ask for UN to have a say?
How dare they make comparison with Kosovo?
How pathetic is to blame the West for it? The Russian are making a terrible mistake. All the former east Europeans countries do not have any trust left in Russia.
Even the Belarusian are realising the threat that Russia have to their freedom and independence.
I sincerely hope that the politician in Serbia become conscious of the Moscow double standards and witness how badly they were make use of the so called “ally” !!!!

Wow, even though it may seem that serbia has now been put in between a rock and a hard place; I really think that serbia can use the situation to its advantage.
The best thing to do now would be to satisfy both its great ally Russia, by recognizing South Ossetia and Abkhazia, and to increase its likelyhood of getting into the EU by recognizing the Republic of Kosovo. Its really a win-win situation. As opposed to making enemies on both sides of the world, best to be aligned with both. Kosovo is lost anyways. Might as well concentrate on more important things like the economy and education and the improvement of the standard of life for its citizens.

There will be no affect on serbia of Russia's recognition of S.O. S.O IS FROZEN CONFLICT and needed to be sorted at some stage after the break up of the USSR- Russia had strong interests there and Georgia started the aggression. whereas in Kosovo foreigners eg USA who had no previous business in the region attacked for political and disputed 'humanitarian' reasons and bombed serbia illegally for 78 days. USA/parts of EU have ridiculed international law and as such it now seems that there is no law. Lets hope the americans aren't stupid enough to start WW3 but then we have been lied to time and time again by the USA, the only thing Bush is good at is starting wars which he can't finish.The UN is finished as is International law.

Serbia, yet again stuck between a rock and a hard place.

So much for counting on your Russian brothers.

This is just not the same dispute.
Those two were independent before Stalin, Kosovo has never been independant. With Stalin in power, they joined Georgia without their will while Kosovo was part of Serbian state in the past and now it is getting away by crude will of the US.

Serbia does not need to recognise South Ossetia and Abkhazia just like Georgia has not recognised Kosovo. There are no problems there but it does open the prospect of Srpska Republika being recognised as independent some time in the near future.

I expect the government to remain silent and allow the world to see what damage the Kosovo precedent has caused throughout the world. This will work in the favour of both Serbia and Russia - two powers within their respective regions.

The tide has well and truly turned against the West. And besides, the Olympics are over so I also expect China to get into gear shortly.

This is so simple. Georgia signed an agreement that said they would allow Russian peacekeepers in and not be involved in south Ossetia and abkhazie and then the Georgian government violated that by attacking and invading S Ossetia. Serbia agreed to the UN and nato going into Kosovo and has made no military moves to reclaim the regions. When Georgia violated the peace keeping agreement it signed it lost the rights to those territories. So Serbia still has a right to Kosovo because it as kept its word but Georgia hasn’t and it has lost.

You get into these kind of situation when you alley with bullies.

It is allways much safer to alley with democracies. However, in the democracy the sovreignity comes from the ppl not form how many tanks the bully has.

These recognitions could be good for Serbia. Could effectively shut down further recognitions of Kosovo. Russia knows others won't recognise and is simply forcing the international community to develop a consistent approach to territorial integrity.

Now you serbs you have to understand that Putin used you for his interest. Putin will continue to keep you in this position as long as he need you to do so.

I don't understand why are Albanians blowing this out of proportion.

The answer is clear.. Serbia wants to stick to international law, this is clear.. so its clear that Serbia will not recognize these breakaway regions.


Most Serbs realize that South Ossetia and Abkhazia deserve independence but that still doesn't mean we will recognize.


Besides, when did Russia ever tell Serbia it wants it to recognize Kosovo.. just like the EU understood Spain's, Slovakia's, Romania's, Cyprus's and Greece's positions on Kosovo... Russia will understand Serbia's position on Georgia's breakaway provinces.


End of story.. no real issue here.

ilir,
it has been nearly 20, YES nearly TWENTY years that russia and georgia and the UN have been trying to resolve this conflict between Georgia and it's two breakaway provinces of south ossetia and abkhazia. it would seem that the west has had more oppurtuntity to help solve these problems than they had with the kosovo-serbia problem, which was nearly 10 years -- my basic math skills would seem to suggest that the georgian problem has been around for nearly twice as long as the serbian problem, but please type that into you calculator and confirm it for me.
both georgian and serbian breakaway provinces were being monitoried by outside forces since the beginings of their respecitive conflicts. both monitors were backed and brokered by the un, but one was nato controlled and the other russian controlled, neither was UN controlled. So it seems that though these to problems were different, the similarities are striking. both breakaway regions were under pressure from their containing country, both sets of regions have claimed ethnic cleansing and genocidal attempts occured, directed at them by their respective containing nation, both set seem very similar again.
yes, but ofcourse the differences that i can see are the 1 case the people were serbian and albanian, and in the other case the people were georgian and ossetia and abkhazian. yes that is difference enough... you are correct, how dare they... how dare the kosovar population not support another population suffering under strikingly similar conditions to those of their own plight. how dare they stand by idlely with no regard for others that are suffering. how dare they not share the same gift that they were given with other peoples that need it? Yes how do they dare, well maybe because they are affraid that if they offer help to other unfortunates that they will lose their backing? they are either being bullied into ignoring their sense of decency or they do not care for anybody else, which would certainly say alot for the population of kosovo, and their claim that they will be able to care for the number of minorities within its currently temporarily recognized borders.
and ben,
it seems odd that you're not including the us, uk and nato in your list of bullies. us are currently in a occupation excersice of iraq. nato, us and uk are working on occupying afganistan, and nato illegally carried out a 79 day bombing campaign of serbian in 1999, just to mention three instances of bullying. if my simplistic understanding of these so called freedoms that you have in your democracies is correct, compared to that of those you are implying, then one should be free to walk into your home, destroy what they saw fit, and take over occupancy, as long as you cooperate you can have the sofa, but once you defy, then you get kicked out after a solid beating ofcourse? if so, please let me know where you live, i could use a second place. russia may look like they're bullying, no real arguments there, but do not preach from you painted over ivory tower, for underneath every layer of ivory paint there are stains of the blood nationed bullied by your democracies.
at the end of the day, if kosovo is lost from serbia because the kosovar population was unable to live with the serbian population, then similarly if the south ossetia and abkhazian populations cannot live with the georgian populations they should be lost from georgia. why do these poor people have to suffer, and why are then not allowed to live as they see fit? is this not the highest form of your presious democracy that you speak so highly of? the freedom of choice?

"The ministry continues that "it can be surmised, with regret, that these predictions have come true".
That is a Serbia joke about how "predictible" is Serbia when it comes to international law))
Russia has annexed both South Osetia and Abkahzia. Whether Georgia has got guts to put a fierce fight to re-gain the control...I don't know. Time will tell but if Georgia considers these two provinces its part....should fight for it and fight realy hard.

i think this could be a concern for all of us with a US warship heading towards the Russians. Russia has pledged a military response for the missile defense shield. I dont think what is happening will do Serbia or Kosovo any good. For Kosovo the focus as shifted, recognitions will not be fast coming, for Serbia the world will see what she does. This could lead to the division of Kosovo, Bosnia and other areas of ethnic minorities. The US needs Russias support if its to engage Iran the last thing they need is Russia to supply arms to Iran.

Politically i can see comprimises being made on all sides (US-Russia)

Serbs are in difficult position because very soon Russia will recognize Kosova's Independence soon. This what i am saying is not a joke but a reality, information taken by well believed sources.

Russia, Belarus, Iran, and Serbia. Not even Venezuela or Cuba will follow Russia. make up your mind, are you with your main supporter, Russia, or not? ;)

The news makes me enjoy. From tomorrow, anyone can have a "republic". Serbian sindrom spreads thorughout the world.

"The Republic of Serbia officials have continuously warned that the unilateral declaration of independence of Kosovo and Metohija, just as the recognitions of this illegal act, could have the nature of a precedent and destabilize other regions in the world,"
Who is the new Nostradamos in Serbian MOF. Bravo very good prediction. You said it long ago Kosovo indipendence would serve as a precedent. Is it Jeremic. Bravo NovoNostradamus. Forget about Kosovo being indipendent now. Does not matter. IMPORTATANT is YOU WERE WRIGHT.

Confusion right?...

Yes, Serbs need time to think on their own....

and they will come to conclusion that Russia is after interests, not principles...

Indeed, difficult position....

jazzy jeff,

I tell you why it is pathetic to compare Kosovo with the region in Georgia.
1) During the 90’ when the USRR was divided (as in case of ex Yug) fighting broke out because people in that region did not want to be part of Georgia. A peace deal was made between Georgia and Russia. Peace keeping troops from Russia where base in the region granting peace and security for the local habitants. This never was the case for Kosovo after the 90’ when their autonomy was removed by Milosevic.
2) When the Georgian started fighting the West asked for the fighting to stop from the both side.
Everyone was calling in the west for a peaceful solution. Therefore you should understand that the West did not encourage Georgia to start fighting, or ignore the suffering of the local habitants. This never was the case with Russia in Kosovo, which if I may remind you in the late 90’ supported Serbia war against the people in Kosovo. I still remember their diplomats claiming that Kosovo is a Serbian “internal affair”.
Furthermore a peace treaty was broken from the president Sarkozy of France. The treaty was signed by Russia and the point 6 stated that future international talk needs to be held, regarding the future of the regions.
Clearly Russia did not respect this point and now the West can not trust Russia president Medved in any future dealings.
Another thing is that the Russia justifies their military intervention to protect the Russian living outside their borders. Just imagine if Albania would have done the same in Kosovo or Macedonia in the late 90’!!!
And how about the Chinese do the same for their minority in Russia?
And don’t get me started with Europe as we all know how diverse it is.


As an Albanian I’m a firm believer that you can not force people to live under the rule of another country. However every attempt needs to be made to respect international borders. Every attempt need to be made to respect and obey international law.
In this case no attempt was made by the Russian to respect the international community.
This is the main deference. The Russian will come to greatly regret this action.
Don’t forget that Kosovo clearly aspires to be part of the EU as Serbia, and be part of a democratic EU.
These are not the case for Russia as we all know that Chechnya or either region inside Russia will look closely to this case.

Georgia felt pressure from USA to recognize Kosovo and they did not. Russia knows better than not to ask Serbia to recognize. All of these "large" countries are setting double standards! Serbia knows they can not recognize Georgia's seperatist provinces. Then again you never know what Belgrade is thinking.

It's amaising how fast you guys forget when in your favor. So you are the angels now. And who was the devil from 89-99?

I read an article about how all of this was Washington's planning. Georgia knew that they could never control those regions, thus they put Russia in a situation that they have to react or else be viewed as a lame duck. At the same time the western media and the world portrays Russia as a bully and a power with no credibility when opposing certain U.S. policies, and at the same time destabilize Russia economically and isolate them.

Is this good politics for the U.S. it's hard to tell right now. It would have been better if Russia came to the west's fold but some people have their own agendas.

Let's see who else will recognize Ossetia and Abkhazia

Maybe you can count on Iran :-)

The russians called it way in advance after Feb. They said the would cause problems, pandoras box if you will. No one listened, as far as I can see this the Russians never fooled anyone...they called it like they saw it. And now the west is crying 'foul' when Russia applies the same standard in another "frozen conflict" Serbia & Russia have every right and are right by saying " I told you so"

I don't think Serbia has to support us in a direct form. One voice cannot help us very much but it can spoil the Serbia's positions in Kosovo issue. Serbia cannot afford such gifts to it's enemies. But Serbia can give us indirect moral support remaining within the frame of the formally existing international rules.

Say Serbia may declare that it will form it's stance depending on the developments over Kosovo issue. Also Serbia may stress at the differences in the crisises over KOSOVO where Albanians are mostly newcomers while OSSETIA & ABKHASIA which during 2000 years before Stalin had never belonged to Georgia.

Another difference is that even Slobo had no ideas of elimination of the Albanians while thousands of Georgian fascists came to kill all the Ossetians and were going to repeat it with the Abkhasians. Serbia has to remember that the West is totally impotent against Russia and we shall win in any case.
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(Ilir, 27 August 2008 00:34)

"I tell you why it is pathetic to compare Kosovo with the region in Georgia.
1) During the 90’ when the USRR was divided (as in case of ex Yug) fighting broke out because people in that region did not want to be part of Georgia. A peace deal was made between Georgia and Russia. Peace keeping troops from Russia where base in the region granting peace and security for the local habitants. This never was the case for Kosovo after the 90’ when their autonomy was removed by Milosevic."

how can you compare the 1991-1992 South Ossetia War to the removal of Kosovo's autonomy? one was a violent conflict and the other a political maneuver.

"2) When the Georgian started fighting the West asked for the fighting to stop from the both side."

that's incorrect. western media portrayed it as a Russian occupation of Georgia.

"Everyone was calling in the west for a peaceful solution. Therefore you should understand that the West did not encourage Georgia to start fighting,"

how can you be so sure? the West had given Georgia military training, supplies, arms, and even had consultants stationed at strategic positions when Georgia decided to attack South Ossetia.

"Another thing is that the Russia justifies their military intervention to protect the Russian living outside their borders."

not only that. also to protect Russian peacekeepers which were attacked.

"Just imagine if Albania would have done the same in Kosovo or Macedonia in the late 90’!!!"

They did. via their western proxies.

"And how about the Chinese do the same for their minority in Russia?"

well then the opposing forces would be similar in size and would lead to WWIII.

"And don’t get me started with Europe as we all know how diverse it is."

Yes but hopefully with the EU umbrella that won't happen too soon.

"As an Albanian I’m a firm believer that you can not force people to live under the rule of another country. However every attempt needs to be made to respect international borders."

Really? I don't recall Kosovo Albanians attempting to respect international borders.

"Every attempt need to be made to respect and obey international law.
In this case no attempt was made by the Russian to respect the international community.
This is the main deference."

it seems to me you've got yourself tangled in double standards.

"The Russian will come to greatly regret this action."

how did you come to that conclusion?

"Don’t forget that Kosovo clearly aspires to be part of the EU as Serbia, and be part of a democratic EU."

we all know that Kosovo would have jumped on any bandwagon offering independence. just because the bandwagon it did jump on belonged to the "democratic" West, doesn't make it any more superior or justifiable than the Russian bandwagon the South Ossetians jumped on.

"These are not the case for Russia as we all know that Chechnya or either region inside Russia will look closely to this case."

Maybe, but all they will be doing is looking because the moment they decide to act they will be reminded who is in power.

same story as kosovo, different region, different powers.

Why should Russia respect international law if the West does not? It's obvious that protests and declarations did not produce any results.
In the case of Kosovo and Georgia (and Chechenya) the role of the US and some other countries is evident: they trained, armed and supported the UCK politically and through the media, as they did in Georgia.

ilir,
are you trying to tell me that since 1999 kosovo was solely policed and monitored by serbian forces? -- "Peace keeping troops from Russia where base in the region granting peace and security for the local habitants. This never was the case for Kosovo after the 90’ when their autonomy was removed by Milosevic."
That's rather strange. I suppose that Nato loaned out their uniforms to the serbian policing unit. If however you agree with the reality that is and was on the ground, kosovo was protected by international peace keepers. Russians in georgia are international as well. THE SAME is it not?
If you can remember that the russian diplomats called kosovo a serbian internal affair, and you can hear that the us is calling south ossetia and abkhazia georgian internal affairs... again THE SAME
what level of attempts did the kosovar people make with the serbian people to obey international laws with respect to maintaining existing borders within a country that is already a formal member of the UN... furthermore, what attempts were made by the international community to protect the integral borders of the former country known as jugoslavia. NONE.
At the end of the day, if it is good for kosovo, then it is good for south ossetia and abkhazia.
Note one last point of interest. currently the US is willing to play their veto to deny south ossetia and abkhazia recognition within the UN. if this veto is to be played, then so will the veto of russia with respect to kosovo.
Essentially all that is happening, and it is evidently clear, is that the big boys are playing the large game of chess with the little pawns. Either all breakaways will be allowed, or none will because of the balance of powers.
kosovo, south ossetia, abkhazia, azerbajan , basque, etc... will remain frozen conflicts without proper resolution because the power that are in charge do not actually care for these region in as much as they care for their own power and egos.
i wish the best possible results for all the peoples of the world that want to be freed from tyrants. it's shameful to see a kosovar albanian crying for freedoms from a tyrant and condeming his fellow oppressed for asking for the same thing.
ilir it is shameful. you of all peoples should be fighting to help these other poor peoples, not condeming them.

It seems like the West knows only two ways to solve ethnic conflicts: either you crush them (like the Krajna) or you give them independence (like Kosovo). The West tried the Krajna variant in South Ossetia so Russia rewarded them with the Kosovo variant.

Of course the best is something in the middle - with real negotiations.

I think the best thing that Serbia can do now is to challenge Georgia to go to the ICJ. If the ICJ condemns the independence of its territories it will be with arguments that will fit quite good for Kosovo. Russia has actually helped Serbia in its quest for an ICJ opinion as it will make it clear for everyone that Kosovo is not a unique case. Serbia might even ask Georgia to cooperate to ask a common opinion on both areas at once.