48

Tuesday, 26.08.2008.

09:25

Russia recognizes S. Ossetia, Abkhazia

Russian President Dmitry Medvedev announced that Moscow has recognized the independence of South Ossetia and Abkhazia.

Izvor: Beta

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48 Komentari

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Niko

pre 15 godina

@massimo

The approved UNRSC 1244 cemented the status of Kosovo as a Serbian province currently under occupation .....
(CG, 27 August 2008 16:32)
1244 mentions the territorial integrity of Federal Republic of Yugoslavia,not Serbia. Serbia actually gave up on 1244 when it declared unilateraly independence on June 6th, 2006 from the successor state of Federal Republic of Yugoslavia.

nik

pre 15 godina

Peter Sydney: "Serbia has offered full autonomy. Next & last step beyond that is independence. "

Peter, don't you remember why the current problems with Serbia started and overspelled in then Yugoslavia?

It all started in mid 80's with the right conclusion that Kosovo can influence so many thing in serbia (being part of it) while there is wery little taht Serbia could do in Kosovo, due to the large autonomy that it enjoyes!
There were tow posible solutions. The Right one: To grant Kosovo a status of a Yugoslavian Republic. Gradually to have Yugoslavia developed as a loose confederation, to join the EU by the fast track (as offered by Jacques Dellor, then Chairman of the EU commission).
Unfortunately a opposite and disastrous solution was attempted. Kosovo's autonomy was susspended, other Yugoslavian republic were frightened and opted for total independence, war..etc.
I am not an Albanian. When I said : "In Serbia's case we would have 60 -70 Members of Parliament!" I meant it as a figure of speach, such as: We may have the first Afro-American president.
With the risk of being disliked by some, I would say, on personal level I like sSerbs much more than the Albanians. At least we have the same religion, and close languages. If in my countryu there were 2 million Albanians, living as a compact group, I would advocate "amputation".
What is wrong with Macedonia?
Kust about everything! The Albanians have several parties, and now insist that the on that won more wotes should bi necessary invited to government. So a "right" Macedoniam party may be forced to govern with a "left' Albanian one. Things are going towards a two nation state. Their ex PM Ljubcho Georgievski advocated "divorce", but he is now in total disgrace, because he dared to revert to the ethnicity of his forefathers.
Divorce in Macedonia would be difficulte. In Serbia, with Kosovo's clear borders, and comparable by size minorities on both sides of the border, it should have been easy. Think of the human cost the"clinging to Kosovo" for the average Serbian. Or may be things look easier "downunder"?

peter, sydney

pre 15 godina

nik:
Macedonia? What is wrong with it apart from certain titular issues?

60 to 70 members of parliament? Such is your right as citizens of Serbia. Voting as a bloc? Don't think so. There are factions in K-albanian society just as there are in Serbia proper.

Albanian as an official language? In K-albanian majority area's - fine.

As a national language? Well, this one's a bit problematic. Is Serbia afterall.

Official decisions taken by concensus - fine, but along democratic lines of course.

There see.. simple - problem solved...

...unless of course K-albanians are not interested in any negotiations at all.


> If we had more flexable position on Serbian side a lot more could have been negotiated.

Is hard to see how Serbia's current position could be any more flexible. Serbia has offered full autonomy. Next & last step beyond that is independence.

K-albanians on the other hand have had their independence 'push' supported by the US from day 1 & so have absolutely no incentive to move from their inflexible position of full independence.

Small wonder than that they refuse to compromise.

The whole point behind UN resolution 1244 was to halt the conflict & give the parties a chance to come to some sort of agreement.

A Unilateral Declaration of Independence is in no way, shape or form, an agreement.

And until that agreement is reached Kosovo is & will remain 'Srbija'.

massimo

pre 15 godina

Dear All, there are 32 UNSC resolutions "cementing", as some friend said, the integrity of Georgia, in particular referring to Abkhazia.

Blagoje

pre 15 godina

Serbia should now recognize Abhazia And South Ossetia as an independent and sovereign states while at the same time recognizing the Republic of Srpska and North Kosovska Mitrovica.

BARAK BIN OBAMA

pre 15 godina

It seems to me that Russia has forgotten that they already lost two great wars against the West allies. The Cold War and the Crimean War. As I see it, Russia is directly provoking the West. Nonetheless, Russia is way weaker today in comparison to the west as they were during the both wars mentioned above.
If this continues and even a war is not fought, I see two great loosers. Georgia-for loosing territory, and Serbia for loosing the argument with respect to International Law. Since there is loosera it ought to have winners too. That is Russia for flexing the muscle and adding territories to itself, and Kosova which will have a great argument for Independence.

nik

pre 15 godina

Peter Sydney: "What precisely does Serbia have to fear from a population, be they of albanian ethnicity or otherwise, if their intentions are peaceful? "

Have a look at the Macedonian political scene and thell me if you want the same for Serbia?
In Serbia's case we would have 60 -70 Members of Parliament! They could bloc any decision. Soon the question of Albanian as officail if not nationallanguage would come up. Then in the foreign policy, all major decisions would have to be taken by "consensus etc. And you want to undergo all this for what? Just to say that: " Serbs are not about to give up on Kosovo. Not now. Not ever."
Couldn't you see that this stance doomed the negotiations!
If we had more flexable position on Serbian side a lot more could have been negotiated. Like what somebody proposed: Vaticana style status of the Serbian Patriarchate, dual citizenship,recognition of some Serbian investments in Kosovo, mirror minirity rights of the K. Serbs and Preshevo Albanians.etc.

Nine years, and nothing but : Kosovi is Serbia!
Well now the Pandora's box is open!

Another Canadian Serb

pre 15 godina

massimo,
why do you speak riddles?
When you are fully aware that Kosovo's attempt to steal Serbian land is illegal. There are no parrallels here!

CG

pre 15 godina

@massimo

The approved UNRSC 1244 cemented the status of Kosovo as a Serbian province currently under occupation ,there is no such thing for Georgia,therefore:
Abkhazia and Soutossetia are independent nations,Kosovo is not and will never be.Period.

Dani

pre 15 godina

quoted from leon "Please refrain from your wild accusations of "electoral fraud". Granted the electoral college is a complicate system but it works. The US electoral system is place for stability, and I will not have my country preached to by Europeans who seem to have a bloody civil war/coup every generation in some corner of the continent were it always ends up in war with so called US Diplomacy....Man it was election fraud on both occasions Leon I will call...Democracy..In the US Of A its far from it these days... so dont u be preaching democracy... I have been doing alot of work in the US of A last 15 years it has deteriorated alot I would say in about another 20 to 30 years US Of A it will be a poverty stricken 3rd world nation..They have so much more problems at home and they want for Georgia part of Nato through the backdoor its trying control distribution of natural gasses and oil controling the flow that is all they give care about democracy..Different USSR to now Russia Economically they are more powerful economically combined with military might ..they are not are push over anymore...George Junior with George Senior and their cronies want war it will not end well for them..As we wait an see how it unfolds...Talk about rights in the US of A patriot act is a real threat to society..Oh yes I live in AU its alot more democratic here then in US of A...

massimo

pre 15 godina

At the end, since they congratulate South Ossetia and Abkhazia, some Serbian people have accepted the principle that led to Kosovo independence recognition.
In relation to the Balkan scenario we should welcome that fact as a step forward.

peter, sydney

pre 15 godina

nik:
> PRN is right.
Would be a first if true, but as I read his comment above can see plainly that this once again is not the case.

The west spend 9 years trying to prevent the UDI? Was never about negotiation. Was about capitulation. Serbs are not about to give up on Kosovo. Not now. Not ever.

> DUI indeed the dangers for the Serbian nation if two million Albanians remained its citizens.

I would call this a rather damning indictment of all K-albanian's. What precisely does Serbia have to fear from a population, be they of albanian ethnicity or otherwise, if their intentions are peaceful?

Or are you saying different?

> Now the precedent will be used to justify completly different cases.
No case is ever the same, but completely different? Pity most people would not agree with you isn't it.

> Sooner or later the precident may backfire on Russia.
Russia didn't set the precedent - that clown in the white house did.

And I wouldn't be too worried about the chechens et al. Despite all the rhetoric coming from both sides, they are still co-operating over Iran. Guess what that means.


Joe:
> Russia is much weaker than people think.

Go right on believing that just as the author of that article you provided 'believes' that the price of oil will 'return to normal'.

Might have trouble convincing people like the Ukraine's president Mr Yushchenko however. Will certainly have trouble convincing Georgia's Saakashvili given all the 'support' he has gotten recently.

Joe

pre 15 godina

Nik,

Yes the whole thing will backfire on Russia.
Russia is much weaker than people think.
See the excellent article of Brat Stephens "Russia is dangerous but weak" in the WSJ:

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB121971090058271261.html?mod=opinion_columns_featured_lsc

dejan

pre 15 godina

these statements make me laugh
>unacceptable and a violation of the territorial integrity of Georgia.
>Russia’s move is a deliberate breach of international law and the principles of stability in Europe
>We consider this is a regrettable decision and I recall our attachment to the territorial integrity of Georgia.
ecretary of State Condoleezza Rice, said the decision was "regrettable"
.. hold up here guys .. its statments made by countries that recognized kosovo who say they r in breach with international laww but then what do they say about kosovo that its not .. this is a joke
lke putin said when america recognized kosovo it will come back to hit the West "in the face and it has

nik

pre 15 godina

PRN is right. The Pandora's box has been open. We are entering a system of paralel worlds were the different powers recognize different realities. Has Kosovo's UDI anything to do with it? Certainly. The tragedy is that it was a UDI.
The West spent 9 years to prevent it. To allow time for the Serbian politicians to explain to the poeple not only the utter impossibility to reintegrate Kosovo witin Serbia, but the dangers of a Frosen conflict, DUI indeed the dangers for the Serbian nation if two million Albanians remained its citizens. The hope was that a negotiated independence, a peaceful divorce, you name it was stonewalled. The Serbian side could not come with anything else, other than: Kosovo is (and will remain) part of Serbia. As a result, we had the case where the reality on the ground could not be reconciled with the rules of the International law. Now the precedent will be used to justify completly different cases. Ehat danger 70 000 South Ossetians could present to five million Georgians? Has their UDI any other purpose than to provide Russia with a stronghold south of the Caucasian mountains? Sooner or later the precident may backfire on Russia. If Abkhazia could be independent, why not Chechnya? Dagestan?

ALBANI

pre 15 godina

Hey This is a Great news from RUSSIA, they soon will recognize kosova too, if pandora box opens all the albanian will be united ( Albania, kosova, 60% or Macedonia, 50% of montenegro and another 50% of Greece and 30%of Serbia. this is the TIME for Albanian's. Great job Russia

lowe

pre 15 godina

While they will not admit it publicly, I dare say many in the West are now rueing their folly of asserting that Kosovo could never become a precedent ..... but other than hurling verbal abuse at Moscow, what else can the West do?

Let me see. Maybe they could hire Ahtissaari to conduct his fake negotiations again .... and come up with Ahtisaari Package No. 2 ..... in which ethnic Georgians in S. Ossetia and Abkhazia can become the so-called "most privileged minority in the whole world" aka the K-Serbs. And to recognize Ossetian and Abkhazian independence but without the right of these new states to merge with "third countries" (ie. with Mother Russia) aka Kosovo with Albania .... I am sure Ahtisaari misses the limelight (not to mention the generous financial incentives from the West) and would relish Kosovo Revisited in the Caucasus.

albi

pre 15 godina

I don't understand why Serbs here are cheering for Russia. Russia's decision essentially removes all so-called "legal obstacles" to any countries who wish to recognize Kosovo.

Russia also shows its hypocrisy and double standards, since it clearly does not care about "territorial integrity." It seems that for Russia, "territorial integrity" has been an excuse to keep Albanians, a non-Slavic people, ruled by Serbs, Russia's ethnic cousins.

The worst part is that the intervention in Georgia was done Russian-style, crudely, without style, without regard for the rest of the world. This ought to teach a lesson to some of you. All it took was some oil money, and they are trying to revive the old Evil Empire.

Nexh

pre 15 godina

Time for Hungarians from Romania to merge with Hungary. Also part of Vojvodina should be with Hungary. Western Macedonia to be part of Albania. Is this what Russia wants then so be it. Damn it, region with less than 50,000 people (S. Osetia) to declare independece. That is so discusting. Makes me feel sick to my stomach.

Anthony

pre 15 godina

Leonidas,

You can believe any conspiracy theory you wish. Al Gore was given ever recount in accordance with US election law and our constitution, need I remind the oldest still functioning.

Secondly you ignore other "number games" about how US military personnel absentee ballots did not arrive to weeks later and they voted heavily in favor for then Gov. Bush.

The media- ABC, NBC, CBS- called the state of FL for AL Gore as soon as polls closed in the Eastern Standard Time zone. This disenfranchised millions in the pan handle of Florida who lay in the central time zone and who vote heavily republican. Many people did not go to vote between 7 -8 pm central time because the media had already called the state for then VP Gore.

Gov. Bush lost New Mexico by less than 500 votes in 2000, but he accepted it, no law suits, protests, or complaining.

Al Gore and the Democrats try to achieve in the judicial system which they can not at the ballot box.

I am sorry that you buy into this sort of pie in the sky nonsense.

Gojko

pre 15 godina

This world is going crazy!

I think Russia did this on purpose just to show what the phrase double standards means.

Kosovo is Serbia

Peter Sudyka

pre 15 godina

So what happened was it this:

The West recognizes Kosovo due to it being a "sui generis" case with no other viable solution and Russia criticizes it for being outside of the framework of international law and Serbia's sovereignty, who in return, recognizes Abkhazia and South Ossetia claiming it is the only viable solution to be criticized by the West who claim it to be outside of the framework of international law and respect for Georgia's sovereignty. Does anyone else see what a big joke this whole recognition thing is? So where will it end now? Is the word precedent also just a relative term like international law?

I really and truly hate politicians, they will be the downfall of mankind, for sure!

Dragan

pre 15 godina

:)) I am smiling ear to ear. Better news could not have come.
Beautiful move Russia. The judo master Putin has once again outsmarted and check-mated cowboy George and his posse.
The next step is a referendum in Republika Srpska, followed by Russian recognition of Republika Srpska.
What's good for the goose, is good for the gander :)).
Bravo Russia!! Keep rubbing their nose in their own immorality and double standards!
Cheers!!

Independent

pre 15 godina

Serbia could recognise Republika Srpska and patiently wait for Kosovo reintegration into Serbia.
(bmrusila, 26 August 2008 16:12)

My God bmrusila, can you understand what you are writing? Can those two parts of the same sentence stand together? If you what Serbia to recognize Republika Srpska, how in the world you can “patiently wait for Kosovo reintegration into Serbia”?
Kosovo with its own identity in ex-Yugoslavia to have less what you want for a separatist region in Bosnia, ex republic of Yugoslavia!!! What fair judgment!

Olf

pre 15 godina

I read comments that compare Kosova with S.Osetia nd Abkhazia. I cannot stop stop wihthou asking if 1.5% of population of one counrty is allowed to declare and Independece Russia will recognise it thanm I think that Serbia is going to be breaken into many small parts.

Leonidas

pre 15 godina

Please refrain from your wild accusations of "electoral fraud". Granted the electoral college is a complicate system but it works. The US electoral system is place for stability, and I will not have my country preached to by Europeans who seem to have a bloody civil war/coup every generation in some corner of the continent.
Anthony Pellicio
Whereas i agree with most of your posting about the way forward in Kosovo I will take issue with you onthe manner that Bush was elected as president in 2001.
In Autumn 2001,the US National Opinion Centre,after eight months review,announced that 175000
Florida voters were never counted and as a result Al Gore had won Florida and should've been president.
There was also a strong statistical evidence that more than 30 million voters were easily hacked in the elections of 2004.In Ohio alone the number of recorded
votes was more than 93000 greater than the number of registered voters.

Mike

pre 15 godina

Well I fail to see how Serbia gains in this, seeing as how their biggest supporter of "territorial integrity" has how carved out two little parastaes of their own to match the US one in the Balkans. I have little to get giddy over.

In fact, I have a lot to worry about. With the idiotic statements coming from our State Department that recognition of the two provinces' independence would be "a violation of Georgian territorial integrity" and "inconsistent with international law", one really has to wonder whether these people are appointed on account of their ignorant stupidity, not in spite of it. If one breakaway region contravenes international law, ALL breakaway regions contravene international law, Kosovo included. You can't have it both ways. The Pandora's Box that was opened in Pristina on Frbruary 17 is now beginning to spread, and I blame not the Albanians or the Ossetians and Abkhaz. I blame the greedy powers in Washington, Berlin, London, and Moscow for not having the foresight as Great Powers in realizing what damage such modern approaches in imperialistic land grabs can do.

bmrusila

pre 15 godina

I am having so nice time reading this. Definitely makes the news of the day. Russia has all the arguments on her side since the USA/EU decided to ignore UN and support Kosovo independence while same time violating Serbia’s sovereignty. Next will be Transnistria, and many others to follow. Serbia could recognise Republika Srpska and patiently wait for Kosovo reintegration into Serbia.

peter, sydney

pre 15 godina

> The U.S. state department has said recognition of the two provinces' independence would be "a violation of Georgian territorial integrity" and "inconsistent with international law".

One cannot help but laugh at the blatant hypocrisy coming from the 'free world' these days.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but wasn't the argument they used something along the lines of the 'act of recognition' by a country isn't by itself illegal & that all countries were free to do so according to how they viewed the seccession.

> VOA reported that Wood rejected as unacceptable calls by the two houses of the Russian parliament for Moscow to recognize the independence of South Ossetia and Abkhazia.

Seems that the 'US state dept' has had it's own way for so long that the clowns working for it have lost touch with reality.

> White House spokesman Tony Fratto also reacted yesterday, by saying, "We're reviewing our entire relationship with Russia, both for the medium term and the long term".

Review away Mr Fratto - the russians couldn't care less.

> France's President Nicolas Sarkozy said at the weekend that, under the terms of the ceasefire he had helped broker, troops from the Organization for Security and Co-operation in Europe (OSCE) would move into these buffer zones.

Seems that the russians don't agree with your 'interpretation' Mr Sarkozy. Perhaps you'd like to take it to the UN SC & get some 'clarification' on the issue.

Or perhaps you'd like to just go ahead & deploy a 'EULEX' clone anyway..

> But senior Russian officials now say they never agreed to allow international peacekeepers to patrol in the zones, and also say they will not allow aerial reconnaissance over the zones.

...or perhaps not :)

Aleksandar Krajisnik

pre 15 godina

SimpleOldSailor wrote this on BBC News: "Is it okay for Tibet to want autonomy? Is it okay for Scotland to want independence? Is it okay for the Isle of Man to have independence? Should we have granted independence to Eire? Should the Kurds have an independent state? Should the Basques have an independent state? Should the Cornish have an automonous region? Should it be necessary to have a "Passport to Pimlico"? It all depends on where you stand, how much power you have, what the great powers will allow you & is all PETTY NATIONALISM."
I could not agree more.
Let me to add that NATO countries have this coming after their recognition of Kosovo.

Jevic

pre 15 godina

The WEST should be blamed on this crisis for recognizing kosovo and making empty promises to Georgia.

This will show that Russia cannot be ignored and still a superpower coz this crisis brought fear to the knees of George W. Bush and the WEST had simply watch and do nothing.

Anthony Pelliccio

pre 15 godina

@ Leonitas,

Please refrain from your wild accusations of "electoral fraud". Granted the electoral college is a complicate system but it works. The US electoral system is place for stability, and I will not have my country preached to by Europeans who seem to have a bloody civil war/coup every generation in some corner of the continent.

Now for my "Mea Culpa". The recognition of these separatist movements in Georgia is a direct threat to international stability, sovereignty, and democracy. But the only thing that made this scenario possible was the west’s' movements in Kosovo -lead by my country. Its disingenuous to pretend not to see the connection between these two.

Kosovo i Metohija, in terms of the strategic interests of the United States, is absolutely useless. It is a piece of land the size of the state of Connecticut without access to the sea, any natural resources, and without the infrastructure to support or to deploy US Forces.

Having spent 2 years in the province under the US KFOR banner and working with both Serbs and ethnic Albs, I know and recognize the deep spiritual connection that the Serbian people have to their ancestral homeland. In a country made up of too many traditions to have just one, the US, and in countries living in a post modern and post-Catholic (or Christian) society in the rest of Europe, they dismiss this connection because of their high minded liberalism.

I would call for a reverse of the US decision to recognize Kosovo's illegal declaration of independence, as a bartering chip for the Russians to remove theirs.

I think the Russian bear is dangerous creature, but there is not reason to pick fights over Kosovo. Georgia we should stand up for, Poland, Ukraine, and others in the east need us. But Kosovo i Metohija is an internal issue to the Republic of Serbia and we should force, if necessary, a return to the negotiating table and force a compromise that respects the autonomy of province within the broader sphere of Serbia proper.

Oh those Russians !

pre 15 godina

СЛАВЬСЯ ОТЕЧЕСТВО НАШЕ СОБОДНОЕ ...

Like most of the Russians I am very proud for my President to put an end to cinism and hipocricy in our relation with the West ! After their support for saakascism there's no more hope that the Western politicians were born by women ... Nothing human remained in them ! Only their block mentality and corporative interests are seen now. So I prefer a horrible end of those relations to the endless horrow of the hipocricy we were meeting all the time.

No matter what we do our enemies will bark if we become stronger and applause if we become weaker. The Golden Billion is loosing their grip over the world and they close their eyes at everyone who plays on their side. The inevitable aggravation of tense will also help us to get rid of the comprador elites inside Russia and further consolidate the nation. Besides many small nations may now expect our practical support against the Western dictate. So strong Russia is in the favor of most of the peoples including the hostile ones.

Whatever happens now OSSETIA and ABKHAZIA under no conditions will rejoin Georgia once again. They have 1000 times more rights for indepedence than the US born Kosovo reservation. Moreover some 40% of other OSSETIAN lands still remain under the rule of Georgia. During 19 years of their independence ( 17 years now and 2 years after 1918) the Georgians has arranged 4 massacres against the OSSETIANS ( 1918 , 1920 , 1992 , 2008 ) PLUS ONE MORE WAR IN 2004 ... Each time because the OSSETIANS did not want to separate from Russia. What other arguments do we need to support their right to live on the lands of their SCYTHIAN ( same as ALANIAN or SARMATIAN ) ancestors ?!

The US gave the command to launch the war against OSSETIA in their vainful hope to show us as helpless as we used to be when they bombed Belgrad. Now we can see that the whole world is helpless against Russia.

BK47

pre 15 godina

Serbia is the winner out of this. Russia and the West now have the same cards to play with. "Withdraw recognition of Kosovo and we will reconsider our stance on Georgia", would be Russia's main card. The fact is all countries who have not recognised Kosovo will be put off recognising it as a result of this. Most countries prefer to remain neutral,especially when neither issue concerns them.


'Let the Games begin'

raso

pre 15 godina

opa, they did what self-proclaimed "russia-experts" told us they never will or to put it in albanian-english: russia gave in .....

holy mother serbia should be the first - even before russian federation - to acknowledge the 2 youngest "european" states, cause with one thing the western us-satelites are correct: you can´t compare the - short-time - occupation of south-serbia with the just and legal indiependence for s-ossetia and abhazia .....

Olf

pre 15 godina

What is the best way to de-stabilize one country/Russia, make them take silly steps .i.e. recognise S.Ossetia and Abkhazia. I would like to congratulate to people of S.Ossetia and Abkhazia their Independence but I wonder if they really wanted it.
What is next, Chechnya? Here comes the end of Russian power and back it comes the image of Communist Russia

smile

pre 15 godina

'This is not an easy decision, but it is the only way to protect people's lives'

o, the bear's rubbing american and eu faces right in it :)
even using snide nato-eu-us rhetoric they used when they tried to take our land away
anyway, russia will now recognize kosovo…
… right after it recognizes chechnya ;)
instead of international law now this game is the law: i respect my own and my allies integrity and sovereignty, and the rest can die.
two are now playing that game thank god.
oh and good luck beloved ossetia and abkhazia on your own way. you well and truly deserve it :)

BKK

pre 15 godina

Russia recognized South Ossetia!

I am positively giggling like a school girl right about now!
This was the biggest, nastiest most just slap across America's face to date.

I applaud.


And just in advance to those ridiculous comments that Russia will recognize Kosovo now - don't be silly!

Just like all other Western countries who have recognized Kosovo have a selected recognitions syndrome (we'll recognize you, but not you, you or you), Russia now has them too.

Leonidas

pre 15 godina

The Bush administration,as the whole world knows,was elected through electoral fraud and since then we haven't heard anything remotely truthful from them.
UN resolutions on Kosovo stipulated that it remained an integral part of Serbia.This resolution was totally ignored by the US and its allies and proceeded with the illegal recognition of the UDI.
On Iraq the US and its coalission invaded a sovereign country -under false pretenses-and by totally ignoring the UN.
With regard to crisis in Georgia, the US suddenly discovered that the UN exists
after all and any Russian recognition of the breakaway
republics will be illegal.
Well, Kosovo's independence is not sui generis after all.
It has opened the doors for any minority, using the Kosovo precedent, to break away from its current entity.
Kosovo has really opened the
Pandora's box.

Niall O'Doherty

pre 15 godina

The USA is right because this will set a danger precedent for the international community. It appears Pandora box is about to be open. As result we will see Kosovo will recognise Presevo valley as an independent state, Hungary will recognise Vojvodina, Bosnia will recognise Sanjak, and not to forget there are 21 republics in Russia who are waiting for independence.
(PRN, 26 August 2008 10:14)

Yes and Belgrade recognise independence of RS, RSK. You just done get it do you? The mess that has been created by the West of recognising Pristina's UDD is rippling accross the globe.

I wonder will Pristina recognise Palestinian sovereignty too?

VB

pre 15 godina

Pandora box is already opened when Kosovo Albanian separatists proclaimed their Unilateral Declaration of Dependence. We are seeing the results of that now in Georgia. Time for some western countries to rethink their recognition of the fake state of kosova before it gets too late.

Stop Russia!!!!

pre 15 godina

US should recognize AND arm the Chechens unless Russia stops this. Look what Russia did to Chechnya http://cobb.typepad.com/cobb/images/2007/11/28/grozny2600d_belyakov.jpg

ZK UK

pre 15 godina

PRN, you forgot to mention Albania recognising Macedonia as Albanian.

Pandora's box was opened a long time ago my friend with international borders and law a thing of the past. It is known as the "Kosovo precedent".

I have mentioned from the beginning that both Russia and Serbia will benefit from it so just watch this space.

PRN

pre 15 godina

"Washington: Respect Georgian sovereignty",

The USA is right because this will set a danger precedent for the international community. It appears Pandora box is about to be open. As result we will see Kosovo will recognise Presevo valley as an independent state, Hungary will recognise Vojvodina, Bosnia will recognise Sanjak, and not to forget there are 21 republics in Russia who are waiting for independence.

Bad move Russia.
TIME TO RETHINK!

Leonidas

pre 15 godina

The Bush administration,as the whole world knows,was elected through electoral fraud and since then we haven't heard anything remotely truthful from them.
UN resolutions on Kosovo stipulated that it remained an integral part of Serbia.This resolution was totally ignored by the US and its allies and proceeded with the illegal recognition of the UDI.
On Iraq the US and its coalission invaded a sovereign country -under false pretenses-and by totally ignoring the UN.
With regard to crisis in Georgia, the US suddenly discovered that the UN exists
after all and any Russian recognition of the breakaway
republics will be illegal.
Well, Kosovo's independence is not sui generis after all.
It has opened the doors for any minority, using the Kosovo precedent, to break away from its current entity.
Kosovo has really opened the
Pandora's box.

ZK UK

pre 15 godina

PRN, you forgot to mention Albania recognising Macedonia as Albanian.

Pandora's box was opened a long time ago my friend with international borders and law a thing of the past. It is known as the "Kosovo precedent".

I have mentioned from the beginning that both Russia and Serbia will benefit from it so just watch this space.

Oh those Russians !

pre 15 godina

СЛАВЬСЯ ОТЕЧЕСТВО НАШЕ СОБОДНОЕ ...

Like most of the Russians I am very proud for my President to put an end to cinism and hipocricy in our relation with the West ! After their support for saakascism there's no more hope that the Western politicians were born by women ... Nothing human remained in them ! Only their block mentality and corporative interests are seen now. So I prefer a horrible end of those relations to the endless horrow of the hipocricy we were meeting all the time.

No matter what we do our enemies will bark if we become stronger and applause if we become weaker. The Golden Billion is loosing their grip over the world and they close their eyes at everyone who plays on their side. The inevitable aggravation of tense will also help us to get rid of the comprador elites inside Russia and further consolidate the nation. Besides many small nations may now expect our practical support against the Western dictate. So strong Russia is in the favor of most of the peoples including the hostile ones.

Whatever happens now OSSETIA and ABKHAZIA under no conditions will rejoin Georgia once again. They have 1000 times more rights for indepedence than the US born Kosovo reservation. Moreover some 40% of other OSSETIAN lands still remain under the rule of Georgia. During 19 years of their independence ( 17 years now and 2 years after 1918) the Georgians has arranged 4 massacres against the OSSETIANS ( 1918 , 1920 , 1992 , 2008 ) PLUS ONE MORE WAR IN 2004 ... Each time because the OSSETIANS did not want to separate from Russia. What other arguments do we need to support their right to live on the lands of their SCYTHIAN ( same as ALANIAN or SARMATIAN ) ancestors ?!

The US gave the command to launch the war against OSSETIA in their vainful hope to show us as helpless as we used to be when they bombed Belgrad. Now we can see that the whole world is helpless against Russia.

PRN

pre 15 godina

"Washington: Respect Georgian sovereignty",

The USA is right because this will set a danger precedent for the international community. It appears Pandora box is about to be open. As result we will see Kosovo will recognise Presevo valley as an independent state, Hungary will recognise Vojvodina, Bosnia will recognise Sanjak, and not to forget there are 21 republics in Russia who are waiting for independence.

Bad move Russia.
TIME TO RETHINK!

BKK

pre 15 godina

Russia recognized South Ossetia!

I am positively giggling like a school girl right about now!
This was the biggest, nastiest most just slap across America's face to date.

I applaud.


And just in advance to those ridiculous comments that Russia will recognize Kosovo now - don't be silly!

Just like all other Western countries who have recognized Kosovo have a selected recognitions syndrome (we'll recognize you, but not you, you or you), Russia now has them too.

Niall O'Doherty

pre 15 godina

The USA is right because this will set a danger precedent for the international community. It appears Pandora box is about to be open. As result we will see Kosovo will recognise Presevo valley as an independent state, Hungary will recognise Vojvodina, Bosnia will recognise Sanjak, and not to forget there are 21 republics in Russia who are waiting for independence.
(PRN, 26 August 2008 10:14)

Yes and Belgrade recognise independence of RS, RSK. You just done get it do you? The mess that has been created by the West of recognising Pristina's UDD is rippling accross the globe.

I wonder will Pristina recognise Palestinian sovereignty too?

VB

pre 15 godina

Pandora box is already opened when Kosovo Albanian separatists proclaimed their Unilateral Declaration of Dependence. We are seeing the results of that now in Georgia. Time for some western countries to rethink their recognition of the fake state of kosova before it gets too late.

BK47

pre 15 godina

Serbia is the winner out of this. Russia and the West now have the same cards to play with. "Withdraw recognition of Kosovo and we will reconsider our stance on Georgia", would be Russia's main card. The fact is all countries who have not recognised Kosovo will be put off recognising it as a result of this. Most countries prefer to remain neutral,especially when neither issue concerns them.


'Let the Games begin'

bmrusila

pre 15 godina

I am having so nice time reading this. Definitely makes the news of the day. Russia has all the arguments on her side since the USA/EU decided to ignore UN and support Kosovo independence while same time violating Serbia’s sovereignty. Next will be Transnistria, and many others to follow. Serbia could recognise Republika Srpska and patiently wait for Kosovo reintegration into Serbia.

Mike

pre 15 godina

Well I fail to see how Serbia gains in this, seeing as how their biggest supporter of "territorial integrity" has how carved out two little parastaes of their own to match the US one in the Balkans. I have little to get giddy over.

In fact, I have a lot to worry about. With the idiotic statements coming from our State Department that recognition of the two provinces' independence would be "a violation of Georgian territorial integrity" and "inconsistent with international law", one really has to wonder whether these people are appointed on account of their ignorant stupidity, not in spite of it. If one breakaway region contravenes international law, ALL breakaway regions contravene international law, Kosovo included. You can't have it both ways. The Pandora's Box that was opened in Pristina on Frbruary 17 is now beginning to spread, and I blame not the Albanians or the Ossetians and Abkhaz. I blame the greedy powers in Washington, Berlin, London, and Moscow for not having the foresight as Great Powers in realizing what damage such modern approaches in imperialistic land grabs can do.

Leonidas

pre 15 godina

Please refrain from your wild accusations of "electoral fraud". Granted the electoral college is a complicate system but it works. The US electoral system is place for stability, and I will not have my country preached to by Europeans who seem to have a bloody civil war/coup every generation in some corner of the continent.
Anthony Pellicio
Whereas i agree with most of your posting about the way forward in Kosovo I will take issue with you onthe manner that Bush was elected as president in 2001.
In Autumn 2001,the US National Opinion Centre,after eight months review,announced that 175000
Florida voters were never counted and as a result Al Gore had won Florida and should've been president.
There was also a strong statistical evidence that more than 30 million voters were easily hacked in the elections of 2004.In Ohio alone the number of recorded
votes was more than 93000 greater than the number of registered voters.

Dragan

pre 15 godina

:)) I am smiling ear to ear. Better news could not have come.
Beautiful move Russia. The judo master Putin has once again outsmarted and check-mated cowboy George and his posse.
The next step is a referendum in Republika Srpska, followed by Russian recognition of Republika Srpska.
What's good for the goose, is good for the gander :)).
Bravo Russia!! Keep rubbing their nose in their own immorality and double standards!
Cheers!!

Aleksandar Krajisnik

pre 15 godina

SimpleOldSailor wrote this on BBC News: "Is it okay for Tibet to want autonomy? Is it okay for Scotland to want independence? Is it okay for the Isle of Man to have independence? Should we have granted independence to Eire? Should the Kurds have an independent state? Should the Basques have an independent state? Should the Cornish have an automonous region? Should it be necessary to have a "Passport to Pimlico"? It all depends on where you stand, how much power you have, what the great powers will allow you & is all PETTY NATIONALISM."
I could not agree more.
Let me to add that NATO countries have this coming after their recognition of Kosovo.

Anthony Pelliccio

pre 15 godina

@ Leonitas,

Please refrain from your wild accusations of "electoral fraud". Granted the electoral college is a complicate system but it works. The US electoral system is place for stability, and I will not have my country preached to by Europeans who seem to have a bloody civil war/coup every generation in some corner of the continent.

Now for my "Mea Culpa". The recognition of these separatist movements in Georgia is a direct threat to international stability, sovereignty, and democracy. But the only thing that made this scenario possible was the west’s' movements in Kosovo -lead by my country. Its disingenuous to pretend not to see the connection between these two.

Kosovo i Metohija, in terms of the strategic interests of the United States, is absolutely useless. It is a piece of land the size of the state of Connecticut without access to the sea, any natural resources, and without the infrastructure to support or to deploy US Forces.

Having spent 2 years in the province under the US KFOR banner and working with both Serbs and ethnic Albs, I know and recognize the deep spiritual connection that the Serbian people have to their ancestral homeland. In a country made up of too many traditions to have just one, the US, and in countries living in a post modern and post-Catholic (or Christian) society in the rest of Europe, they dismiss this connection because of their high minded liberalism.

I would call for a reverse of the US decision to recognize Kosovo's illegal declaration of independence, as a bartering chip for the Russians to remove theirs.

I think the Russian bear is dangerous creature, but there is not reason to pick fights over Kosovo. Georgia we should stand up for, Poland, Ukraine, and others in the east need us. But Kosovo i Metohija is an internal issue to the Republic of Serbia and we should force, if necessary, a return to the negotiating table and force a compromise that respects the autonomy of province within the broader sphere of Serbia proper.

smile

pre 15 godina

'This is not an easy decision, but it is the only way to protect people's lives'

o, the bear's rubbing american and eu faces right in it :)
even using snide nato-eu-us rhetoric they used when they tried to take our land away
anyway, russia will now recognize kosovo…
… right after it recognizes chechnya ;)
instead of international law now this game is the law: i respect my own and my allies integrity and sovereignty, and the rest can die.
two are now playing that game thank god.
oh and good luck beloved ossetia and abkhazia on your own way. you well and truly deserve it :)

Jevic

pre 15 godina

The WEST should be blamed on this crisis for recognizing kosovo and making empty promises to Georgia.

This will show that Russia cannot be ignored and still a superpower coz this crisis brought fear to the knees of George W. Bush and the WEST had simply watch and do nothing.

Olf

pre 15 godina

I read comments that compare Kosova with S.Osetia nd Abkhazia. I cannot stop stop wihthou asking if 1.5% of population of one counrty is allowed to declare and Independece Russia will recognise it thanm I think that Serbia is going to be breaken into many small parts.

peter, sydney

pre 15 godina

> The U.S. state department has said recognition of the two provinces' independence would be "a violation of Georgian territorial integrity" and "inconsistent with international law".

One cannot help but laugh at the blatant hypocrisy coming from the 'free world' these days.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but wasn't the argument they used something along the lines of the 'act of recognition' by a country isn't by itself illegal & that all countries were free to do so according to how they viewed the seccession.

> VOA reported that Wood rejected as unacceptable calls by the two houses of the Russian parliament for Moscow to recognize the independence of South Ossetia and Abkhazia.

Seems that the 'US state dept' has had it's own way for so long that the clowns working for it have lost touch with reality.

> White House spokesman Tony Fratto also reacted yesterday, by saying, "We're reviewing our entire relationship with Russia, both for the medium term and the long term".

Review away Mr Fratto - the russians couldn't care less.

> France's President Nicolas Sarkozy said at the weekend that, under the terms of the ceasefire he had helped broker, troops from the Organization for Security and Co-operation in Europe (OSCE) would move into these buffer zones.

Seems that the russians don't agree with your 'interpretation' Mr Sarkozy. Perhaps you'd like to take it to the UN SC & get some 'clarification' on the issue.

Or perhaps you'd like to just go ahead & deploy a 'EULEX' clone anyway..

> But senior Russian officials now say they never agreed to allow international peacekeepers to patrol in the zones, and also say they will not allow aerial reconnaissance over the zones.

...or perhaps not :)

Peter Sudyka

pre 15 godina

So what happened was it this:

The West recognizes Kosovo due to it being a "sui generis" case with no other viable solution and Russia criticizes it for being outside of the framework of international law and Serbia's sovereignty, who in return, recognizes Abkhazia and South Ossetia claiming it is the only viable solution to be criticized by the West who claim it to be outside of the framework of international law and respect for Georgia's sovereignty. Does anyone else see what a big joke this whole recognition thing is? So where will it end now? Is the word precedent also just a relative term like international law?

I really and truly hate politicians, they will be the downfall of mankind, for sure!

Stop Russia!!!!

pre 15 godina

US should recognize AND arm the Chechens unless Russia stops this. Look what Russia did to Chechnya http://cobb.typepad.com/cobb/images/2007/11/28/grozny2600d_belyakov.jpg

raso

pre 15 godina

opa, they did what self-proclaimed "russia-experts" told us they never will or to put it in albanian-english: russia gave in .....

holy mother serbia should be the first - even before russian federation - to acknowledge the 2 youngest "european" states, cause with one thing the western us-satelites are correct: you can´t compare the - short-time - occupation of south-serbia with the just and legal indiependence for s-ossetia and abhazia .....

Gojko

pre 15 godina

This world is going crazy!

I think Russia did this on purpose just to show what the phrase double standards means.

Kosovo is Serbia

dejan

pre 15 godina

these statements make me laugh
>unacceptable and a violation of the territorial integrity of Georgia.
>Russia’s move is a deliberate breach of international law and the principles of stability in Europe
>We consider this is a regrettable decision and I recall our attachment to the territorial integrity of Georgia.
ecretary of State Condoleezza Rice, said the decision was "regrettable"
.. hold up here guys .. its statments made by countries that recognized kosovo who say they r in breach with international laww but then what do they say about kosovo that its not .. this is a joke
lke putin said when america recognized kosovo it will come back to hit the West "in the face and it has

peter, sydney

pre 15 godina

nik:
> PRN is right.
Would be a first if true, but as I read his comment above can see plainly that this once again is not the case.

The west spend 9 years trying to prevent the UDI? Was never about negotiation. Was about capitulation. Serbs are not about to give up on Kosovo. Not now. Not ever.

> DUI indeed the dangers for the Serbian nation if two million Albanians remained its citizens.

I would call this a rather damning indictment of all K-albanian's. What precisely does Serbia have to fear from a population, be they of albanian ethnicity or otherwise, if their intentions are peaceful?

Or are you saying different?

> Now the precedent will be used to justify completly different cases.
No case is ever the same, but completely different? Pity most people would not agree with you isn't it.

> Sooner or later the precident may backfire on Russia.
Russia didn't set the precedent - that clown in the white house did.

And I wouldn't be too worried about the chechens et al. Despite all the rhetoric coming from both sides, they are still co-operating over Iran. Guess what that means.


Joe:
> Russia is much weaker than people think.

Go right on believing that just as the author of that article you provided 'believes' that the price of oil will 'return to normal'.

Might have trouble convincing people like the Ukraine's president Mr Yushchenko however. Will certainly have trouble convincing Georgia's Saakashvili given all the 'support' he has gotten recently.

Olf

pre 15 godina

What is the best way to de-stabilize one country/Russia, make them take silly steps .i.e. recognise S.Ossetia and Abkhazia. I would like to congratulate to people of S.Ossetia and Abkhazia their Independence but I wonder if they really wanted it.
What is next, Chechnya? Here comes the end of Russian power and back it comes the image of Communist Russia

Independent

pre 15 godina

Serbia could recognise Republika Srpska and patiently wait for Kosovo reintegration into Serbia.
(bmrusila, 26 August 2008 16:12)

My God bmrusila, can you understand what you are writing? Can those two parts of the same sentence stand together? If you what Serbia to recognize Republika Srpska, how in the world you can “patiently wait for Kosovo reintegration into Serbia”?
Kosovo with its own identity in ex-Yugoslavia to have less what you want for a separatist region in Bosnia, ex republic of Yugoslavia!!! What fair judgment!

lowe

pre 15 godina

While they will not admit it publicly, I dare say many in the West are now rueing their folly of asserting that Kosovo could never become a precedent ..... but other than hurling verbal abuse at Moscow, what else can the West do?

Let me see. Maybe they could hire Ahtissaari to conduct his fake negotiations again .... and come up with Ahtisaari Package No. 2 ..... in which ethnic Georgians in S. Ossetia and Abkhazia can become the so-called "most privileged minority in the whole world" aka the K-Serbs. And to recognize Ossetian and Abkhazian independence but without the right of these new states to merge with "third countries" (ie. with Mother Russia) aka Kosovo with Albania .... I am sure Ahtisaari misses the limelight (not to mention the generous financial incentives from the West) and would relish Kosovo Revisited in the Caucasus.

Another Canadian Serb

pre 15 godina

massimo,
why do you speak riddles?
When you are fully aware that Kosovo's attempt to steal Serbian land is illegal. There are no parrallels here!

CG

pre 15 godina

@massimo

The approved UNRSC 1244 cemented the status of Kosovo as a Serbian province currently under occupation ,there is no such thing for Georgia,therefore:
Abkhazia and Soutossetia are independent nations,Kosovo is not and will never be.Period.

Nexh

pre 15 godina

Time for Hungarians from Romania to merge with Hungary. Also part of Vojvodina should be with Hungary. Western Macedonia to be part of Albania. Is this what Russia wants then so be it. Damn it, region with less than 50,000 people (S. Osetia) to declare independece. That is so discusting. Makes me feel sick to my stomach.

peter, sydney

pre 15 godina

nik:
Macedonia? What is wrong with it apart from certain titular issues?

60 to 70 members of parliament? Such is your right as citizens of Serbia. Voting as a bloc? Don't think so. There are factions in K-albanian society just as there are in Serbia proper.

Albanian as an official language? In K-albanian majority area's - fine.

As a national language? Well, this one's a bit problematic. Is Serbia afterall.

Official decisions taken by concensus - fine, but along democratic lines of course.

There see.. simple - problem solved...

...unless of course K-albanians are not interested in any negotiations at all.


> If we had more flexable position on Serbian side a lot more could have been negotiated.

Is hard to see how Serbia's current position could be any more flexible. Serbia has offered full autonomy. Next & last step beyond that is independence.

K-albanians on the other hand have had their independence 'push' supported by the US from day 1 & so have absolutely no incentive to move from their inflexible position of full independence.

Small wonder than that they refuse to compromise.

The whole point behind UN resolution 1244 was to halt the conflict & give the parties a chance to come to some sort of agreement.

A Unilateral Declaration of Independence is in no way, shape or form, an agreement.

And until that agreement is reached Kosovo is & will remain 'Srbija'.

albi

pre 15 godina

I don't understand why Serbs here are cheering for Russia. Russia's decision essentially removes all so-called "legal obstacles" to any countries who wish to recognize Kosovo.

Russia also shows its hypocrisy and double standards, since it clearly does not care about "territorial integrity." It seems that for Russia, "territorial integrity" has been an excuse to keep Albanians, a non-Slavic people, ruled by Serbs, Russia's ethnic cousins.

The worst part is that the intervention in Georgia was done Russian-style, crudely, without style, without regard for the rest of the world. This ought to teach a lesson to some of you. All it took was some oil money, and they are trying to revive the old Evil Empire.

massimo

pre 15 godina

At the end, since they congratulate South Ossetia and Abkhazia, some Serbian people have accepted the principle that led to Kosovo independence recognition.
In relation to the Balkan scenario we should welcome that fact as a step forward.

Dani

pre 15 godina

quoted from leon "Please refrain from your wild accusations of "electoral fraud". Granted the electoral college is a complicate system but it works. The US electoral system is place for stability, and I will not have my country preached to by Europeans who seem to have a bloody civil war/coup every generation in some corner of the continent were it always ends up in war with so called US Diplomacy....Man it was election fraud on both occasions Leon I will call...Democracy..In the US Of A its far from it these days... so dont u be preaching democracy... I have been doing alot of work in the US of A last 15 years it has deteriorated alot I would say in about another 20 to 30 years US Of A it will be a poverty stricken 3rd world nation..They have so much more problems at home and they want for Georgia part of Nato through the backdoor its trying control distribution of natural gasses and oil controling the flow that is all they give care about democracy..Different USSR to now Russia Economically they are more powerful economically combined with military might ..they are not are push over anymore...George Junior with George Senior and their cronies want war it will not end well for them..As we wait an see how it unfolds...Talk about rights in the US of A patriot act is a real threat to society..Oh yes I live in AU its alot more democratic here then in US of A...

nik

pre 15 godina

PRN is right. The Pandora's box has been open. We are entering a system of paralel worlds were the different powers recognize different realities. Has Kosovo's UDI anything to do with it? Certainly. The tragedy is that it was a UDI.
The West spent 9 years to prevent it. To allow time for the Serbian politicians to explain to the poeple not only the utter impossibility to reintegrate Kosovo witin Serbia, but the dangers of a Frosen conflict, DUI indeed the dangers for the Serbian nation if two million Albanians remained its citizens. The hope was that a negotiated independence, a peaceful divorce, you name it was stonewalled. The Serbian side could not come with anything else, other than: Kosovo is (and will remain) part of Serbia. As a result, we had the case where the reality on the ground could not be reconciled with the rules of the International law. Now the precedent will be used to justify completly different cases. Ehat danger 70 000 South Ossetians could present to five million Georgians? Has their UDI any other purpose than to provide Russia with a stronghold south of the Caucasian mountains? Sooner or later the precident may backfire on Russia. If Abkhazia could be independent, why not Chechnya? Dagestan?

BARAK BIN OBAMA

pre 15 godina

It seems to me that Russia has forgotten that they already lost two great wars against the West allies. The Cold War and the Crimean War. As I see it, Russia is directly provoking the West. Nonetheless, Russia is way weaker today in comparison to the west as they were during the both wars mentioned above.
If this continues and even a war is not fought, I see two great loosers. Georgia-for loosing territory, and Serbia for loosing the argument with respect to International Law. Since there is loosera it ought to have winners too. That is Russia for flexing the muscle and adding territories to itself, and Kosova which will have a great argument for Independence.

Blagoje

pre 15 godina

Serbia should now recognize Abhazia And South Ossetia as an independent and sovereign states while at the same time recognizing the Republic of Srpska and North Kosovska Mitrovica.

Anthony

pre 15 godina

Leonidas,

You can believe any conspiracy theory you wish. Al Gore was given ever recount in accordance with US election law and our constitution, need I remind the oldest still functioning.

Secondly you ignore other "number games" about how US military personnel absentee ballots did not arrive to weeks later and they voted heavily in favor for then Gov. Bush.

The media- ABC, NBC, CBS- called the state of FL for AL Gore as soon as polls closed in the Eastern Standard Time zone. This disenfranchised millions in the pan handle of Florida who lay in the central time zone and who vote heavily republican. Many people did not go to vote between 7 -8 pm central time because the media had already called the state for then VP Gore.

Gov. Bush lost New Mexico by less than 500 votes in 2000, but he accepted it, no law suits, protests, or complaining.

Al Gore and the Democrats try to achieve in the judicial system which they can not at the ballot box.

I am sorry that you buy into this sort of pie in the sky nonsense.

ALBANI

pre 15 godina

Hey This is a Great news from RUSSIA, they soon will recognize kosova too, if pandora box opens all the albanian will be united ( Albania, kosova, 60% or Macedonia, 50% of montenegro and another 50% of Greece and 30%of Serbia. this is the TIME for Albanian's. Great job Russia

Joe

pre 15 godina

Nik,

Yes the whole thing will backfire on Russia.
Russia is much weaker than people think.
See the excellent article of Brat Stephens "Russia is dangerous but weak" in the WSJ:

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB121971090058271261.html?mod=opinion_columns_featured_lsc

nik

pre 15 godina

Peter Sydney: "What precisely does Serbia have to fear from a population, be they of albanian ethnicity or otherwise, if their intentions are peaceful? "

Have a look at the Macedonian political scene and thell me if you want the same for Serbia?
In Serbia's case we would have 60 -70 Members of Parliament! They could bloc any decision. Soon the question of Albanian as officail if not nationallanguage would come up. Then in the foreign policy, all major decisions would have to be taken by "consensus etc. And you want to undergo all this for what? Just to say that: " Serbs are not about to give up on Kosovo. Not now. Not ever."
Couldn't you see that this stance doomed the negotiations!
If we had more flexable position on Serbian side a lot more could have been negotiated. Like what somebody proposed: Vaticana style status of the Serbian Patriarchate, dual citizenship,recognition of some Serbian investments in Kosovo, mirror minirity rights of the K. Serbs and Preshevo Albanians.etc.

Nine years, and nothing but : Kosovi is Serbia!
Well now the Pandora's box is open!

massimo

pre 15 godina

Dear All, there are 32 UNSC resolutions "cementing", as some friend said, the integrity of Georgia, in particular referring to Abkhazia.

nik

pre 15 godina

Peter Sydney: "Serbia has offered full autonomy. Next & last step beyond that is independence. "

Peter, don't you remember why the current problems with Serbia started and overspelled in then Yugoslavia?

It all started in mid 80's with the right conclusion that Kosovo can influence so many thing in serbia (being part of it) while there is wery little taht Serbia could do in Kosovo, due to the large autonomy that it enjoyes!
There were tow posible solutions. The Right one: To grant Kosovo a status of a Yugoslavian Republic. Gradually to have Yugoslavia developed as a loose confederation, to join the EU by the fast track (as offered by Jacques Dellor, then Chairman of the EU commission).
Unfortunately a opposite and disastrous solution was attempted. Kosovo's autonomy was susspended, other Yugoslavian republic were frightened and opted for total independence, war..etc.
I am not an Albanian. When I said : "In Serbia's case we would have 60 -70 Members of Parliament!" I meant it as a figure of speach, such as: We may have the first Afro-American president.
With the risk of being disliked by some, I would say, on personal level I like sSerbs much more than the Albanians. At least we have the same religion, and close languages. If in my countryu there were 2 million Albanians, living as a compact group, I would advocate "amputation".
What is wrong with Macedonia?
Kust about everything! The Albanians have several parties, and now insist that the on that won more wotes should bi necessary invited to government. So a "right" Macedoniam party may be forced to govern with a "left' Albanian one. Things are going towards a two nation state. Their ex PM Ljubcho Georgievski advocated "divorce", but he is now in total disgrace, because he dared to revert to the ethnicity of his forefathers.
Divorce in Macedonia would be difficulte. In Serbia, with Kosovo's clear borders, and comparable by size minorities on both sides of the border, it should have been easy. Think of the human cost the"clinging to Kosovo" for the average Serbian. Or may be things look easier "downunder"?

Niko

pre 15 godina

@massimo

The approved UNRSC 1244 cemented the status of Kosovo as a Serbian province currently under occupation .....
(CG, 27 August 2008 16:32)
1244 mentions the territorial integrity of Federal Republic of Yugoslavia,not Serbia. Serbia actually gave up on 1244 when it declared unilateraly independence on June 6th, 2006 from the successor state of Federal Republic of Yugoslavia.

PRN

pre 15 godina

"Washington: Respect Georgian sovereignty",

The USA is right because this will set a danger precedent for the international community. It appears Pandora box is about to be open. As result we will see Kosovo will recognise Presevo valley as an independent state, Hungary will recognise Vojvodina, Bosnia will recognise Sanjak, and not to forget there are 21 republics in Russia who are waiting for independence.

Bad move Russia.
TIME TO RETHINK!

Stop Russia!!!!

pre 15 godina

US should recognize AND arm the Chechens unless Russia stops this. Look what Russia did to Chechnya http://cobb.typepad.com/cobb/images/2007/11/28/grozny2600d_belyakov.jpg

Olf

pre 15 godina

What is the best way to de-stabilize one country/Russia, make them take silly steps .i.e. recognise S.Ossetia and Abkhazia. I would like to congratulate to people of S.Ossetia and Abkhazia their Independence but I wonder if they really wanted it.
What is next, Chechnya? Here comes the end of Russian power and back it comes the image of Communist Russia

Independent

pre 15 godina

Serbia could recognise Republika Srpska and patiently wait for Kosovo reintegration into Serbia.
(bmrusila, 26 August 2008 16:12)

My God bmrusila, can you understand what you are writing? Can those two parts of the same sentence stand together? If you what Serbia to recognize Republika Srpska, how in the world you can “patiently wait for Kosovo reintegration into Serbia”?
Kosovo with its own identity in ex-Yugoslavia to have less what you want for a separatist region in Bosnia, ex republic of Yugoslavia!!! What fair judgment!

Olf

pre 15 godina

I read comments that compare Kosova with S.Osetia nd Abkhazia. I cannot stop stop wihthou asking if 1.5% of population of one counrty is allowed to declare and Independece Russia will recognise it thanm I think that Serbia is going to be breaken into many small parts.

ZK UK

pre 15 godina

PRN, you forgot to mention Albania recognising Macedonia as Albanian.

Pandora's box was opened a long time ago my friend with international borders and law a thing of the past. It is known as the "Kosovo precedent".

I have mentioned from the beginning that both Russia and Serbia will benefit from it so just watch this space.

smile

pre 15 godina

'This is not an easy decision, but it is the only way to protect people's lives'

o, the bear's rubbing american and eu faces right in it :)
even using snide nato-eu-us rhetoric they used when they tried to take our land away
anyway, russia will now recognize kosovo…
… right after it recognizes chechnya ;)
instead of international law now this game is the law: i respect my own and my allies integrity and sovereignty, and the rest can die.
two are now playing that game thank god.
oh and good luck beloved ossetia and abkhazia on your own way. you well and truly deserve it :)

Nexh

pre 15 godina

Time for Hungarians from Romania to merge with Hungary. Also part of Vojvodina should be with Hungary. Western Macedonia to be part of Albania. Is this what Russia wants then so be it. Damn it, region with less than 50,000 people (S. Osetia) to declare independece. That is so discusting. Makes me feel sick to my stomach.

ALBANI

pre 15 godina

Hey This is a Great news from RUSSIA, they soon will recognize kosova too, if pandora box opens all the albanian will be united ( Albania, kosova, 60% or Macedonia, 50% of montenegro and another 50% of Greece and 30%of Serbia. this is the TIME for Albanian's. Great job Russia

nik

pre 15 godina

PRN is right. The Pandora's box has been open. We are entering a system of paralel worlds were the different powers recognize different realities. Has Kosovo's UDI anything to do with it? Certainly. The tragedy is that it was a UDI.
The West spent 9 years to prevent it. To allow time for the Serbian politicians to explain to the poeple not only the utter impossibility to reintegrate Kosovo witin Serbia, but the dangers of a Frosen conflict, DUI indeed the dangers for the Serbian nation if two million Albanians remained its citizens. The hope was that a negotiated independence, a peaceful divorce, you name it was stonewalled. The Serbian side could not come with anything else, other than: Kosovo is (and will remain) part of Serbia. As a result, we had the case where the reality on the ground could not be reconciled with the rules of the International law. Now the precedent will be used to justify completly different cases. Ehat danger 70 000 South Ossetians could present to five million Georgians? Has their UDI any other purpose than to provide Russia with a stronghold south of the Caucasian mountains? Sooner or later the precident may backfire on Russia. If Abkhazia could be independent, why not Chechnya? Dagestan?

Niall O'Doherty

pre 15 godina

The USA is right because this will set a danger precedent for the international community. It appears Pandora box is about to be open. As result we will see Kosovo will recognise Presevo valley as an independent state, Hungary will recognise Vojvodina, Bosnia will recognise Sanjak, and not to forget there are 21 republics in Russia who are waiting for independence.
(PRN, 26 August 2008 10:14)

Yes and Belgrade recognise independence of RS, RSK. You just done get it do you? The mess that has been created by the West of recognising Pristina's UDD is rippling accross the globe.

I wonder will Pristina recognise Palestinian sovereignty too?

raso

pre 15 godina

opa, they did what self-proclaimed "russia-experts" told us they never will or to put it in albanian-english: russia gave in .....

holy mother serbia should be the first - even before russian federation - to acknowledge the 2 youngest "european" states, cause with one thing the western us-satelites are correct: you can´t compare the - short-time - occupation of south-serbia with the just and legal indiependence for s-ossetia and abhazia .....

Anthony Pelliccio

pre 15 godina

@ Leonitas,

Please refrain from your wild accusations of "electoral fraud". Granted the electoral college is a complicate system but it works. The US electoral system is place for stability, and I will not have my country preached to by Europeans who seem to have a bloody civil war/coup every generation in some corner of the continent.

Now for my "Mea Culpa". The recognition of these separatist movements in Georgia is a direct threat to international stability, sovereignty, and democracy. But the only thing that made this scenario possible was the west’s' movements in Kosovo -lead by my country. Its disingenuous to pretend not to see the connection between these two.

Kosovo i Metohija, in terms of the strategic interests of the United States, is absolutely useless. It is a piece of land the size of the state of Connecticut without access to the sea, any natural resources, and without the infrastructure to support or to deploy US Forces.

Having spent 2 years in the province under the US KFOR banner and working with both Serbs and ethnic Albs, I know and recognize the deep spiritual connection that the Serbian people have to their ancestral homeland. In a country made up of too many traditions to have just one, the US, and in countries living in a post modern and post-Catholic (or Christian) society in the rest of Europe, they dismiss this connection because of their high minded liberalism.

I would call for a reverse of the US decision to recognize Kosovo's illegal declaration of independence, as a bartering chip for the Russians to remove theirs.

I think the Russian bear is dangerous creature, but there is not reason to pick fights over Kosovo. Georgia we should stand up for, Poland, Ukraine, and others in the east need us. But Kosovo i Metohija is an internal issue to the Republic of Serbia and we should force, if necessary, a return to the negotiating table and force a compromise that respects the autonomy of province within the broader sphere of Serbia proper.

Jevic

pre 15 godina

The WEST should be blamed on this crisis for recognizing kosovo and making empty promises to Georgia.

This will show that Russia cannot be ignored and still a superpower coz this crisis brought fear to the knees of George W. Bush and the WEST had simply watch and do nothing.

Anthony

pre 15 godina

Leonidas,

You can believe any conspiracy theory you wish. Al Gore was given ever recount in accordance with US election law and our constitution, need I remind the oldest still functioning.

Secondly you ignore other "number games" about how US military personnel absentee ballots did not arrive to weeks later and they voted heavily in favor for then Gov. Bush.

The media- ABC, NBC, CBS- called the state of FL for AL Gore as soon as polls closed in the Eastern Standard Time zone. This disenfranchised millions in the pan handle of Florida who lay in the central time zone and who vote heavily republican. Many people did not go to vote between 7 -8 pm central time because the media had already called the state for then VP Gore.

Gov. Bush lost New Mexico by less than 500 votes in 2000, but he accepted it, no law suits, protests, or complaining.

Al Gore and the Democrats try to achieve in the judicial system which they can not at the ballot box.

I am sorry that you buy into this sort of pie in the sky nonsense.

albi

pre 15 godina

I don't understand why Serbs here are cheering for Russia. Russia's decision essentially removes all so-called "legal obstacles" to any countries who wish to recognize Kosovo.

Russia also shows its hypocrisy and double standards, since it clearly does not care about "territorial integrity." It seems that for Russia, "territorial integrity" has been an excuse to keep Albanians, a non-Slavic people, ruled by Serbs, Russia's ethnic cousins.

The worst part is that the intervention in Georgia was done Russian-style, crudely, without style, without regard for the rest of the world. This ought to teach a lesson to some of you. All it took was some oil money, and they are trying to revive the old Evil Empire.

Joe

pre 15 godina

Nik,

Yes the whole thing will backfire on Russia.
Russia is much weaker than people think.
See the excellent article of Brat Stephens "Russia is dangerous but weak" in the WSJ:

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB121971090058271261.html?mod=opinion_columns_featured_lsc

BARAK BIN OBAMA

pre 15 godina

It seems to me that Russia has forgotten that they already lost two great wars against the West allies. The Cold War and the Crimean War. As I see it, Russia is directly provoking the West. Nonetheless, Russia is way weaker today in comparison to the west as they were during the both wars mentioned above.
If this continues and even a war is not fought, I see two great loosers. Georgia-for loosing territory, and Serbia for loosing the argument with respect to International Law. Since there is loosera it ought to have winners too. That is Russia for flexing the muscle and adding territories to itself, and Kosova which will have a great argument for Independence.

VB

pre 15 godina

Pandora box is already opened when Kosovo Albanian separatists proclaimed their Unilateral Declaration of Dependence. We are seeing the results of that now in Georgia. Time for some western countries to rethink their recognition of the fake state of kosova before it gets too late.

Leonidas

pre 15 godina

The Bush administration,as the whole world knows,was elected through electoral fraud and since then we haven't heard anything remotely truthful from them.
UN resolutions on Kosovo stipulated that it remained an integral part of Serbia.This resolution was totally ignored by the US and its allies and proceeded with the illegal recognition of the UDI.
On Iraq the US and its coalission invaded a sovereign country -under false pretenses-and by totally ignoring the UN.
With regard to crisis in Georgia, the US suddenly discovered that the UN exists
after all and any Russian recognition of the breakaway
republics will be illegal.
Well, Kosovo's independence is not sui generis after all.
It has opened the doors for any minority, using the Kosovo precedent, to break away from its current entity.
Kosovo has really opened the
Pandora's box.

BKK

pre 15 godina

Russia recognized South Ossetia!

I am positively giggling like a school girl right about now!
This was the biggest, nastiest most just slap across America's face to date.

I applaud.


And just in advance to those ridiculous comments that Russia will recognize Kosovo now - don't be silly!

Just like all other Western countries who have recognized Kosovo have a selected recognitions syndrome (we'll recognize you, but not you, you or you), Russia now has them too.

Oh those Russians !

pre 15 godina

СЛАВЬСЯ ОТЕЧЕСТВО НАШЕ СОБОДНОЕ ...

Like most of the Russians I am very proud for my President to put an end to cinism and hipocricy in our relation with the West ! After their support for saakascism there's no more hope that the Western politicians were born by women ... Nothing human remained in them ! Only their block mentality and corporative interests are seen now. So I prefer a horrible end of those relations to the endless horrow of the hipocricy we were meeting all the time.

No matter what we do our enemies will bark if we become stronger and applause if we become weaker. The Golden Billion is loosing their grip over the world and they close their eyes at everyone who plays on their side. The inevitable aggravation of tense will also help us to get rid of the comprador elites inside Russia and further consolidate the nation. Besides many small nations may now expect our practical support against the Western dictate. So strong Russia is in the favor of most of the peoples including the hostile ones.

Whatever happens now OSSETIA and ABKHAZIA under no conditions will rejoin Georgia once again. They have 1000 times more rights for indepedence than the US born Kosovo reservation. Moreover some 40% of other OSSETIAN lands still remain under the rule of Georgia. During 19 years of their independence ( 17 years now and 2 years after 1918) the Georgians has arranged 4 massacres against the OSSETIANS ( 1918 , 1920 , 1992 , 2008 ) PLUS ONE MORE WAR IN 2004 ... Each time because the OSSETIANS did not want to separate from Russia. What other arguments do we need to support their right to live on the lands of their SCYTHIAN ( same as ALANIAN or SARMATIAN ) ancestors ?!

The US gave the command to launch the war against OSSETIA in their vainful hope to show us as helpless as we used to be when they bombed Belgrad. Now we can see that the whole world is helpless against Russia.

BK47

pre 15 godina

Serbia is the winner out of this. Russia and the West now have the same cards to play with. "Withdraw recognition of Kosovo and we will reconsider our stance on Georgia", would be Russia's main card. The fact is all countries who have not recognised Kosovo will be put off recognising it as a result of this. Most countries prefer to remain neutral,especially when neither issue concerns them.


'Let the Games begin'

bmrusila

pre 15 godina

I am having so nice time reading this. Definitely makes the news of the day. Russia has all the arguments on her side since the USA/EU decided to ignore UN and support Kosovo independence while same time violating Serbia’s sovereignty. Next will be Transnistria, and many others to follow. Serbia could recognise Republika Srpska and patiently wait for Kosovo reintegration into Serbia.

Aleksandar Krajisnik

pre 15 godina

SimpleOldSailor wrote this on BBC News: "Is it okay for Tibet to want autonomy? Is it okay for Scotland to want independence? Is it okay for the Isle of Man to have independence? Should we have granted independence to Eire? Should the Kurds have an independent state? Should the Basques have an independent state? Should the Cornish have an automonous region? Should it be necessary to have a "Passport to Pimlico"? It all depends on where you stand, how much power you have, what the great powers will allow you & is all PETTY NATIONALISM."
I could not agree more.
Let me to add that NATO countries have this coming after their recognition of Kosovo.

peter, sydney

pre 15 godina

> The U.S. state department has said recognition of the two provinces' independence would be "a violation of Georgian territorial integrity" and "inconsistent with international law".

One cannot help but laugh at the blatant hypocrisy coming from the 'free world' these days.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but wasn't the argument they used something along the lines of the 'act of recognition' by a country isn't by itself illegal & that all countries were free to do so according to how they viewed the seccession.

> VOA reported that Wood rejected as unacceptable calls by the two houses of the Russian parliament for Moscow to recognize the independence of South Ossetia and Abkhazia.

Seems that the 'US state dept' has had it's own way for so long that the clowns working for it have lost touch with reality.

> White House spokesman Tony Fratto also reacted yesterday, by saying, "We're reviewing our entire relationship with Russia, both for the medium term and the long term".

Review away Mr Fratto - the russians couldn't care less.

> France's President Nicolas Sarkozy said at the weekend that, under the terms of the ceasefire he had helped broker, troops from the Organization for Security and Co-operation in Europe (OSCE) would move into these buffer zones.

Seems that the russians don't agree with your 'interpretation' Mr Sarkozy. Perhaps you'd like to take it to the UN SC & get some 'clarification' on the issue.

Or perhaps you'd like to just go ahead & deploy a 'EULEX' clone anyway..

> But senior Russian officials now say they never agreed to allow international peacekeepers to patrol in the zones, and also say they will not allow aerial reconnaissance over the zones.

...or perhaps not :)

Mike

pre 15 godina

Well I fail to see how Serbia gains in this, seeing as how their biggest supporter of "territorial integrity" has how carved out two little parastaes of their own to match the US one in the Balkans. I have little to get giddy over.

In fact, I have a lot to worry about. With the idiotic statements coming from our State Department that recognition of the two provinces' independence would be "a violation of Georgian territorial integrity" and "inconsistent with international law", one really has to wonder whether these people are appointed on account of their ignorant stupidity, not in spite of it. If one breakaway region contravenes international law, ALL breakaway regions contravene international law, Kosovo included. You can't have it both ways. The Pandora's Box that was opened in Pristina on Frbruary 17 is now beginning to spread, and I blame not the Albanians or the Ossetians and Abkhaz. I blame the greedy powers in Washington, Berlin, London, and Moscow for not having the foresight as Great Powers in realizing what damage such modern approaches in imperialistic land grabs can do.

Leonidas

pre 15 godina

Please refrain from your wild accusations of "electoral fraud". Granted the electoral college is a complicate system but it works. The US electoral system is place for stability, and I will not have my country preached to by Europeans who seem to have a bloody civil war/coup every generation in some corner of the continent.
Anthony Pellicio
Whereas i agree with most of your posting about the way forward in Kosovo I will take issue with you onthe manner that Bush was elected as president in 2001.
In Autumn 2001,the US National Opinion Centre,after eight months review,announced that 175000
Florida voters were never counted and as a result Al Gore had won Florida and should've been president.
There was also a strong statistical evidence that more than 30 million voters were easily hacked in the elections of 2004.In Ohio alone the number of recorded
votes was more than 93000 greater than the number of registered voters.

Dragan

pre 15 godina

:)) I am smiling ear to ear. Better news could not have come.
Beautiful move Russia. The judo master Putin has once again outsmarted and check-mated cowboy George and his posse.
The next step is a referendum in Republika Srpska, followed by Russian recognition of Republika Srpska.
What's good for the goose, is good for the gander :)).
Bravo Russia!! Keep rubbing their nose in their own immorality and double standards!
Cheers!!

Peter Sudyka

pre 15 godina

So what happened was it this:

The West recognizes Kosovo due to it being a "sui generis" case with no other viable solution and Russia criticizes it for being outside of the framework of international law and Serbia's sovereignty, who in return, recognizes Abkhazia and South Ossetia claiming it is the only viable solution to be criticized by the West who claim it to be outside of the framework of international law and respect for Georgia's sovereignty. Does anyone else see what a big joke this whole recognition thing is? So where will it end now? Is the word precedent also just a relative term like international law?

I really and truly hate politicians, they will be the downfall of mankind, for sure!

Gojko

pre 15 godina

This world is going crazy!

I think Russia did this on purpose just to show what the phrase double standards means.

Kosovo is Serbia

lowe

pre 15 godina

While they will not admit it publicly, I dare say many in the West are now rueing their folly of asserting that Kosovo could never become a precedent ..... but other than hurling verbal abuse at Moscow, what else can the West do?

Let me see. Maybe they could hire Ahtissaari to conduct his fake negotiations again .... and come up with Ahtisaari Package No. 2 ..... in which ethnic Georgians in S. Ossetia and Abkhazia can become the so-called "most privileged minority in the whole world" aka the K-Serbs. And to recognize Ossetian and Abkhazian independence but without the right of these new states to merge with "third countries" (ie. with Mother Russia) aka Kosovo with Albania .... I am sure Ahtisaari misses the limelight (not to mention the generous financial incentives from the West) and would relish Kosovo Revisited in the Caucasus.

dejan

pre 15 godina

these statements make me laugh
>unacceptable and a violation of the territorial integrity of Georgia.
>Russia’s move is a deliberate breach of international law and the principles of stability in Europe
>We consider this is a regrettable decision and I recall our attachment to the territorial integrity of Georgia.
ecretary of State Condoleezza Rice, said the decision was "regrettable"
.. hold up here guys .. its statments made by countries that recognized kosovo who say they r in breach with international laww but then what do they say about kosovo that its not .. this is a joke
lke putin said when america recognized kosovo it will come back to hit the West "in the face and it has

peter, sydney

pre 15 godina

nik:
> PRN is right.
Would be a first if true, but as I read his comment above can see plainly that this once again is not the case.

The west spend 9 years trying to prevent the UDI? Was never about negotiation. Was about capitulation. Serbs are not about to give up on Kosovo. Not now. Not ever.

> DUI indeed the dangers for the Serbian nation if two million Albanians remained its citizens.

I would call this a rather damning indictment of all K-albanian's. What precisely does Serbia have to fear from a population, be they of albanian ethnicity or otherwise, if their intentions are peaceful?

Or are you saying different?

> Now the precedent will be used to justify completly different cases.
No case is ever the same, but completely different? Pity most people would not agree with you isn't it.

> Sooner or later the precident may backfire on Russia.
Russia didn't set the precedent - that clown in the white house did.

And I wouldn't be too worried about the chechens et al. Despite all the rhetoric coming from both sides, they are still co-operating over Iran. Guess what that means.


Joe:
> Russia is much weaker than people think.

Go right on believing that just as the author of that article you provided 'believes' that the price of oil will 'return to normal'.

Might have trouble convincing people like the Ukraine's president Mr Yushchenko however. Will certainly have trouble convincing Georgia's Saakashvili given all the 'support' he has gotten recently.

massimo

pre 15 godina

At the end, since they congratulate South Ossetia and Abkhazia, some Serbian people have accepted the principle that led to Kosovo independence recognition.
In relation to the Balkan scenario we should welcome that fact as a step forward.

Dani

pre 15 godina

quoted from leon "Please refrain from your wild accusations of "electoral fraud". Granted the electoral college is a complicate system but it works. The US electoral system is place for stability, and I will not have my country preached to by Europeans who seem to have a bloody civil war/coup every generation in some corner of the continent were it always ends up in war with so called US Diplomacy....Man it was election fraud on both occasions Leon I will call...Democracy..In the US Of A its far from it these days... so dont u be preaching democracy... I have been doing alot of work in the US of A last 15 years it has deteriorated alot I would say in about another 20 to 30 years US Of A it will be a poverty stricken 3rd world nation..They have so much more problems at home and they want for Georgia part of Nato through the backdoor its trying control distribution of natural gasses and oil controling the flow that is all they give care about democracy..Different USSR to now Russia Economically they are more powerful economically combined with military might ..they are not are push over anymore...George Junior with George Senior and their cronies want war it will not end well for them..As we wait an see how it unfolds...Talk about rights in the US of A patriot act is a real threat to society..Oh yes I live in AU its alot more democratic here then in US of A...

CG

pre 15 godina

@massimo

The approved UNRSC 1244 cemented the status of Kosovo as a Serbian province currently under occupation ,there is no such thing for Georgia,therefore:
Abkhazia and Soutossetia are independent nations,Kosovo is not and will never be.Period.

Another Canadian Serb

pre 15 godina

massimo,
why do you speak riddles?
When you are fully aware that Kosovo's attempt to steal Serbian land is illegal. There are no parrallels here!

nik

pre 15 godina

Peter Sydney: "What precisely does Serbia have to fear from a population, be they of albanian ethnicity or otherwise, if their intentions are peaceful? "

Have a look at the Macedonian political scene and thell me if you want the same for Serbia?
In Serbia's case we would have 60 -70 Members of Parliament! They could bloc any decision. Soon the question of Albanian as officail if not nationallanguage would come up. Then in the foreign policy, all major decisions would have to be taken by "consensus etc. And you want to undergo all this for what? Just to say that: " Serbs are not about to give up on Kosovo. Not now. Not ever."
Couldn't you see that this stance doomed the negotiations!
If we had more flexable position on Serbian side a lot more could have been negotiated. Like what somebody proposed: Vaticana style status of the Serbian Patriarchate, dual citizenship,recognition of some Serbian investments in Kosovo, mirror minirity rights of the K. Serbs and Preshevo Albanians.etc.

Nine years, and nothing but : Kosovi is Serbia!
Well now the Pandora's box is open!

Blagoje

pre 15 godina

Serbia should now recognize Abhazia And South Ossetia as an independent and sovereign states while at the same time recognizing the Republic of Srpska and North Kosovska Mitrovica.

massimo

pre 15 godina

Dear All, there are 32 UNSC resolutions "cementing", as some friend said, the integrity of Georgia, in particular referring to Abkhazia.

peter, sydney

pre 15 godina

nik:
Macedonia? What is wrong with it apart from certain titular issues?

60 to 70 members of parliament? Such is your right as citizens of Serbia. Voting as a bloc? Don't think so. There are factions in K-albanian society just as there are in Serbia proper.

Albanian as an official language? In K-albanian majority area's - fine.

As a national language? Well, this one's a bit problematic. Is Serbia afterall.

Official decisions taken by concensus - fine, but along democratic lines of course.

There see.. simple - problem solved...

...unless of course K-albanians are not interested in any negotiations at all.


> If we had more flexable position on Serbian side a lot more could have been negotiated.

Is hard to see how Serbia's current position could be any more flexible. Serbia has offered full autonomy. Next & last step beyond that is independence.

K-albanians on the other hand have had their independence 'push' supported by the US from day 1 & so have absolutely no incentive to move from their inflexible position of full independence.

Small wonder than that they refuse to compromise.

The whole point behind UN resolution 1244 was to halt the conflict & give the parties a chance to come to some sort of agreement.

A Unilateral Declaration of Independence is in no way, shape or form, an agreement.

And until that agreement is reached Kosovo is & will remain 'Srbija'.

nik

pre 15 godina

Peter Sydney: "Serbia has offered full autonomy. Next & last step beyond that is independence. "

Peter, don't you remember why the current problems with Serbia started and overspelled in then Yugoslavia?

It all started in mid 80's with the right conclusion that Kosovo can influence so many thing in serbia (being part of it) while there is wery little taht Serbia could do in Kosovo, due to the large autonomy that it enjoyes!
There were tow posible solutions. The Right one: To grant Kosovo a status of a Yugoslavian Republic. Gradually to have Yugoslavia developed as a loose confederation, to join the EU by the fast track (as offered by Jacques Dellor, then Chairman of the EU commission).
Unfortunately a opposite and disastrous solution was attempted. Kosovo's autonomy was susspended, other Yugoslavian republic were frightened and opted for total independence, war..etc.
I am not an Albanian. When I said : "In Serbia's case we would have 60 -70 Members of Parliament!" I meant it as a figure of speach, such as: We may have the first Afro-American president.
With the risk of being disliked by some, I would say, on personal level I like sSerbs much more than the Albanians. At least we have the same religion, and close languages. If in my countryu there were 2 million Albanians, living as a compact group, I would advocate "amputation".
What is wrong with Macedonia?
Kust about everything! The Albanians have several parties, and now insist that the on that won more wotes should bi necessary invited to government. So a "right" Macedoniam party may be forced to govern with a "left' Albanian one. Things are going towards a two nation state. Their ex PM Ljubcho Georgievski advocated "divorce", but he is now in total disgrace, because he dared to revert to the ethnicity of his forefathers.
Divorce in Macedonia would be difficulte. In Serbia, with Kosovo's clear borders, and comparable by size minorities on both sides of the border, it should have been easy. Think of the human cost the"clinging to Kosovo" for the average Serbian. Or may be things look easier "downunder"?

Niko

pre 15 godina

@massimo

The approved UNRSC 1244 cemented the status of Kosovo as a Serbian province currently under occupation .....
(CG, 27 August 2008 16:32)
1244 mentions the territorial integrity of Federal Republic of Yugoslavia,not Serbia. Serbia actually gave up on 1244 when it declared unilateraly independence on June 6th, 2006 from the successor state of Federal Republic of Yugoslavia.