Of course there is a Vlach question in Serbia and there will always be as long as there are tens of thousands of Vlachs who do not identify with Serbs (over 40 000 in the last Serbian census)
Romanian (Vlach) minority in Serbia?
It is a topic that requires careful approach?
First of all it is important to keep in mind what is Romanian? The concept "Romanian" originated at the same time as the concept "Yugoslav". It was a collecttive term for a deverse range of people spread throughout the Balkans: Aroumanian, Kucovlachs. Vlachs, Moldavians etc. who spoke a Latin tongue.
THe unification of the two "Danubeian" Principalities in 1861 set the begining of the attempts to bring most of the Latin speakes under one national state. The Timok valley (that has neve before been part of Serbia and had no Serbs) was incorporated in Serbia in 1830's. Prince Mihajlo called it "Bulgarluk".
Yet unlike the local Bulgarians who were gradually assimilated within the Serbian nation (due to the proximity of the languages), the Vlach were allowed to retain their language. Gradually they developed a strong sense of loyality to the Serbian state and have vehemently opposed any irridentist propaganda! Last but not least, in the last 60 years they had much batter life that the Romanians in Romania and even today their villages look much more "European" then those in the EU member Romania. So there is no Vlach question in Serbia.
You support the Serbs even though they treat the Romanians in Serbia very badly? Why is that? You probably have never heard of Romanians in northeastern Serbia and how badly they are being treated by Romanians. Anyway I wanna tell a little secret to the Serbs here. You will never have to worry about Romania. Romanians are extremely AFRAID that they might become surrounded by enemies. Hungary, Ukraine, Bulgaria and even Moldova will always be our enemies for territorial reasons. That is why all Romanian governments have abandoned the Romanians in northeastern Serbia. They are afraid that if they ask for more rights for them Serbia might take revenge and side with our enemies. Therefore you can even blackmail Romania on this isssue. There is no way you will go wrong.
fear play,
Kosovo is Serbian land. Serbian armies and Valachs contingents defended Kosovo from Turks in 14th century.
Later, the structure of population in this region changed due to Turkish ocupation.
Romanians will always be Serbs' friends. We supported each other for many times. Never been enemies.
Romania will never claim Serbian lands. We never adopted an agressive politics towards our neighbours. We defended ourself and we did it succesfully.
I personally hope that Kosovo will be a part a Serbia. Serbs fought hardly for their territories and unfortunately they had strong enemies...
Respects and all the best to Serbian people. Fight for your rights!
Where exactly have you learnt that the Romanians' situation in Timocka Krajina is getting better? It seems you are just a very Serbophile Romanian who likes Serbs despite the fact that they trea Romanians badly. As for Aromanian, Meglenoromanian and Istroromanian, these are no longer Romanian dialects. I as a Romanian cannot understand half of what an Aromanian is saying. Bulgarian and Macedonian, Czech and Slovak, Norwegian, Swedish and Danish are more similar than Romanian and Aromanian but they are distinct languages. You should inform yourself better.
to Mircea & Paul:
"Hungarians came from Asia and conquered Transylvania in the 11th century."
I agree with it.On the other hand,serbs(slavic people)came approximately from the same place and the same time as hungarians in Europe.Then how come they pretend Kosova is their land??Did they bring it from Asia???
There are about 40 000 'Vlachs' in northeastern Serbia (not 30 000 as I said before, according to the last Serbian census). Their real numbers is much higher (250 000) but the Serbian Statistical Institute has falsified the data. In Banat there are 30 000 Romanians which means the percentage of the Romanians in northeastern Serbia is no not very low. Their children should be taught Romanian in school since they have declared they are Vlachs and not Serbs. It doesn't matter if they are taught in dialect or in standard Romanian, the thing is they should be taught Romanian like in Vojvodina. The Vlachs that don't declare themselves Vlach in the census should not be forced to learn Romanian if they don't want to.
On the offtopic issues:
1. The situation of romanian/vlach minority in serbia and the Balkans. The pro-K UDI in Romania voices are actually those voices asking for more government action in helping the romanian minority in Timoc valley. Throughout the years reports presented in the romanian media were very disappointing in what regards their situation, civil and religious rights (especially religious service in romanian). Lately, though they never took their cause to the streets, things, as presented by different government bodies, are starting to get better and probably will get a lot better in the forthcoming years given Serbia's Eu integration. The issue of the romanian language and related aromanian, istroromanian, meglenoromanian in the Balkans is an issue over which all romanian governments were always criticized for not vigurously by all means supporting. As a consequence istroromanian (in Croatia) is almost extinct. Nobody ever suggested any territorial or other claim from the romanian state over these populations, but for romanians the issue is very sensible.
2. In the eyes of some, the "possible" transilvanian issue. As coming from a mixed transilvanian family I can only say, given what recent history showed us, that maybe Transilvania and the issue of the minorities in Romanaia as a political framework should have been taken as an example. Hungarians also never quite took their demands on the streets but in the public discussion through political means and that was a very appreciated approach. Now the main hungarian party is in the government for the last 12 yrs (like no other romanian party), minority rights in general are way better than in most "old" EU countries and whatever other issues to be settled wil be so settled by negotiations. Just one question, in how many countries one can take a driving licence exam in 5 different languages?
3. On the italo-romanian relations. Well, is nobody else's business but italians' an romanians'. The rroma migration and the issues raised are indeed unfortunate, but I don't think that in their collective mentality, gypsies are generaly bound to a territory or a country of passport.
On topic
I read Basescu's official declaration in romanian and I do not know how the german agency came up with the sintagm "western powers" in his declaration.
Anyway, he is saying for almost five years now that conflicts in the Caucasus are far from being solved and that there is a danger for fightings to restart. He was always the one to push on Nato or Eu's agenda the issues of the Black Sea region and of course nobody listened and things are now the way they are.
Indeed, he was one that opposed a possible Kosovo Udi since 2005, but the substance of this remark is related to the russian justification of their past present and future actions in Georgia and the Pandora box already oppened where minority rights are used as an excuse for dismantling different states and the big powers are playing the game "I give you this you give me that"
So according to you Vlachs left Serbia and Yugoslavia because they were uneducated morons that couldn't land a job, but Serbs leaving Kosovo at the time were ethnically cleansed by Albanians?!
And by the way, I am Vlach Albanian that don't consider any connection whatsoever to Romania neither identify myself as Romanian! Does that make me a Serb too?
For one more time you showed your true nationalistic face with your comments about Serbian Vlachs! In other countries like Albania, Greece and Macedonia Vlachs were able to prosper and integrate succesfully into their societies. It seem in the "equal opportunities Serbia" they were glad to moves as far as possible!
(Niko,
Exactly so, the high percentage is uneducated, though that picture begun to change and thanks God for that. It is true, they could not find the job and thus moved t the West to be the simplest work force. Believe me that those who accomplished the schools rather than to marry very young and move West, found its happiness in Serbia. Every educated Vlach is employed and most of them are in leading positions.
Just don’t spread rubbish about ethnical cleansing of the Vlachs (in Timocka Krajina) by the Serbs.
As for your ethnical identity I could not care less, you may feel as you like. It seems that some people have problems accepting the fact that Serbia’s Vlachs from Timocka Krajina feel proud to be Serbia’s Vlachs.
Romanian,
So, you basically say that Vlachs must accept Romanian language and be thought at schools in Romanian language even though those Vlach refuse to speak Romanian and proudly declare as Vlachs who speak own dialect. Um, very strange democracy works in your part of Romania. For those who feel Romanian you suggest education in Romanian language but I must tell you that there must certain percentage to consider some ethnic group as minority. I am sorry to tell you that percentage of those who identify themselves as Romanians is way to law and thus not fit into the status of minority.
As I said, I haven’t seen those graffiti but I do condemn it as they are very tasteless, especially because they insult peaceful Vlachs.
A little comment from an Italian about Romanian..
until 3-4 years ago there was a large majority of positive thinking in italy about Romanians..many have come here for work and there were only few problems(manly prostitution and some robberies)...than things have changed...many arrive here only for trubles and a large amount of gipsies have occupaied the streets of our towns...so the yes rating to Romania has dropped sensetively..now is only 40%..
What is difficoult to understand now is that while Romania has a booming Gdp italy is ...dead..so it was supposed that some of the 1.000.000 of Romanians who are in Bel Paese must be thinking to return home..(like for example have done the Polish )..
For the moment ....they keep staying here ...
Sorry. I posted my last comment with the nickname bmrusila. I was trying to address the comment to bmrusila. As I said before the Vlachs who declare themselves Romanian should be taught Romanian in schools (all of the Vlachs speak dialectal Romanian, regardless of what they declare themselves to be ethnically, there is no Vlach language)
For those Hungarian "patriots" who posted here about Transilvania
We are waiting for you. Come again and we will ocupy Budapest. Again...
Transylvania will be Romanian land forever, like it was from ancient times. You have to respect the agreements you signed otherwise you'll be out of Europe. Better, go to Asia, where you had come from. Better, you should formulate territorial claims in Asia. It would be more appropiate...
I will give you information on Vlachs living in Eastern Serbia from the first hand since I live in Eastern part and all my life residing next to Vlachs.
Firstly I must say that I have no idea where do you get an idea that Vlach are Romanized Serbs. As far as I know and I am well informed by the Vlachs who actually live here (Negotin Krajina) they (Valchs) hate the idea of identifying them with Romanians. Why is it so, they however do not give much explanation and prefer to call themselves as Serbian Vlachs.
Some small percentage of Vlachs however does feel as Romanians and have their own Romanian church where they practice their religion and customs. There is also continuously going own the course of Romanian language for those who want to learn that language.
Vlachs also have TV programme and news in their own language and naturally the employees are either Romanians or Vlachs.
It should be also noted that the great percentage of Vlach migrated to the Western Europe in order to work. The biggest migration occurred during 70’s and 80’s and is still going on. Vlachs were massively moving to the West because they were quite uneducated and could not find any job in Serbia or ex YU. It is also very well known that they had all the equal opportunities for gaining good education, but for some unknown reasons they did not care much about schools.
Most of the younger Vlachs prefer not to educate him/her self since parents or grandparents send enough money so that they can live comfortable and very often “rampant” life.
Some of them choose to join family in the West as soon as they accomplish primary school.
For all of these, and their way of life, Serbia is not to be blamed but rather Vlachs themselves.
Remember Vlach themselves do not want to be identified with the Romanians and Serbs never ever forced any Vlach to identify with the Serbs. They all live freely, peacefully and in harmony with their neighbours Serbs. But it seems that you are the only one seeing the problem of Vlachs. Vlachs living in Serbia are not deprived of anything.
(bmrusila, 23 August 2008 16:34)
So according to you Vlachs left Serbia and Yugoslavia because they were uneducated morons that couldn't land a job, but Serbs leaving Kosovo at the time were ethnically cleansed by Albanians?!
And by the way, I am Vlach Albanian that don't consider any connection whatsoever to Romania neither identify myself as Romanian! Does that make me a Serb too?
For one more time you showed your true nationalistic face with your comments about Serbian Vlachs! In other countries like Albania, Greece and Macedonia Vlachs were able to prosper and integrate succesfully into their societies. It seem in the "equal opportunities Serbia" they were glad to moves as far as possible!
There is no Romanian church in Negotin. Bojan Aleksandrovic tried to use Romanian in the Serbian church in Malainica (Malajnica?) village. He was stopped by the representatives of your beloved Serbian Patriarchy and almost got arrested. Therefore the young priest decided to build a church in his own backyard!!! About the Romanian Association in Negotin. This is what happened. The Serbs sprayed obscenities on its window and the message: Get out of Serbia! Another message has been sprayed very recently on a Negotin wall: Serbia for Serbs, Romania for Vlachs! A message which asks the Vlachs to leave Serbia.
See this link:
http://www.rgnpress.ro/Politic/-asteptat-cu-mesaje-antiromanesti-in-Timoc.html#Scene_1
For those Vlachs that identify with Romanians they should be taught Romanian in schools like in Banat. According to the last Serbian census there are more than 30 000 Romanians in Timocka Krajina. These numbers are probably larger and have probably been falsified by the Serbian Statistical Institute, although it is true that most Vlachs declare themselves Serbian. There are about 250 000 Romanian speakers in Timocka Krajina.
In Romania there are Serbian churches and even 2-3 Serbian monasteries, Serbian is taught in school, there is even a Serbian high school although there are only 22 000 Serbs in Romania.
Anyway you should not worry about Romanians the younger generation (25 and under) doesn't speak Romanian anymore. I know that because I have been in Negotin and Kladovo.
Greece, Serbia and Romania got too greedy when they could thanks to powerful allies and backstabbing, now things have changed. Return the stolen territory and this will end.
Just to add few things to the point "bmrusila" was making.
Vlachs were recognized in Serbia as a separate and official national minority in August 2007. They were separated from Romanians living in Banat area in this, although it was stated that Vlach language is Romanian.
But, let me ask you something, Romanian.
Take a good look at 20th century. Take note who was rulling in Belgrade throughout it. Tito - to name the one was a Croat. There were presidents like Mahmut Bakali (Albanian) and yes, Zoran Lilic, president of Federal Republic of Yugoslavia (Serbia and Montenegro) between 1993 and 1997. Vlach by nationality.
Now, let's take a look at 20th century Bukarest and who rulled there. Romania also have national minorities, as many here are pointing to Hungarians in Transilvania. Can you name one president of Romania that was Hungarian? Or Serbian perhaps? Or whatever, other then Romanian?
basescu is absolutely right. Minorities should be given individual cultural rights, not territorial ones.
But Kosovo's Albanians were given territorial rights more than 60 years ago within a country that does no longer exist! Fr all practical matters they were not part of Serbia for decades, had their own institutions, until an inapt attempt was made to take away their self-governing! What followed was a decade of occupation by Serbia, not participation within Serbia. That is what makes Kosovo unique. If today Kosovo gets somehow incorporated in Serbia, it will turn it into a two nation state, like Cyprus is bound to become after a potential unification. But such a shot gun marriage will never work. The West had no choice. Wonder why the Serbs can't understand that they got LIBERATED from Kosovo???
One Romanian church is more than enough in such small place as Negotin is. I wonder how many Serbian churches exist in your place or residing in Romania. As for Romanian language in schools as far as I know that right is guaranteed and practiced by the Romanian minority living in Vojvodina since they identify themselves with the Romanians. Vlachs on the other hand never proposed anything similar, otherwise they would be granted that right. Anyway the question is, how to introduce (to Vlachs) education on the language of the nation that they refuse to identify with? Don’t you think that such move would be rather bizarre? Had Vlachs had their own letter and functional language they would have had education by using their own language.
It appears that you are the only one who suggest sort of force upon the Vlachs to use Romanian language and its letter. By your judgment I feel that you want Vlachs become Romanians at any costs. Respect the fact that majority of Vlachs want to be Vlachs and those who want to be Romanians and feel as such (some few %) have all the conditions for doing so.
As a matter of the fact, I am very well informed and exactly the fact that I live with Vlach door to door, gives me a huge right to consider my self as well informed how the Vlachs feel, how they see themselves.
That priest that you were talking about was probably arrested for some other reasons and not for being a propagator of Romanian church, culture or whatever. The church was built by bless and the permission of Serbian authorities.
As for the window of the Romanian association in Negotin I never heard to be “target object”.
Perhaps that association is not for what it appears to be. If the representatives of that association share your opinion and have such suspicious attitude, then I no longer wonder why it came under the attack. Respect people’s choice, don’t try to force them be Romanians if they do not feel so.
ROMANIA DOES NOT have land which belongs to other countries!!! On the contrary, Romania's neighbors (former URSS and Bulgaria) have stolen territories which belonged to Romania.
Transylvania has from the oldest times been inhabited by Romanians. Transylvania does not belong to Hungary. Hungarians came from Asia and conquered Transylvania in the 11th century.
Gypsies are causing problems not only in Italy but also in Romania. They are a minority that is hard to integrate in society.
Don't forget that Albanian immigrants are also causing big problems for Italy, Greece etc.
This Basescu met with George Bush not too long ago to try and make a deal where the Russian/Slavic part of Moldova would separate and then Romania would take back the rest of Moldova under Romania and Bush told him he wasn't in such a position to make that kind of a deal, and now because Basescu got shot down so hard on his idea about incorporating Moldova back into Romania he's talking about territorial integrity because he fears the next outburst will be in Transylvania with the Hungarians -- which eventually will happen.
This is the policy that not only the Romanians followed up to now, but also other countries which hesitated to recognize the unilateral proclaimed independence of Kosovo. Hence, this is one more country to recognize the same independence as soon, "if they seriously think on their future integrations.
so, trying to present Romanians as criminals while at the same time being known for organized crime all across europe seems quite stupid to me.
and I have talked to some ex-KFOR soldiers, and they were not talking friendly words about the Albanians in the southern serbian province.
they told me that you can even distinguish whether you are entering an albanian village or a serbian one, by the first look.
I won´t write down the reason here, since it would only be deleted by "BigBrother B92".
and last but not least, signing a comment with " Illyrian" is ridiculous in itself.
Well Mr Basescu you should tell that to Serbia. Serbia started these problems. It is easy to see that this guy is Warsaw nostalgic when he refers to "Western Powers". Maybe somebody should tell him it's 2009 and his country is part of the western block.
bmrusila
I know most of the Vlachs don't identify themselves with Romanians but the ones that do have no rights: the only church with Romanian service was built by priest Bojan Aleksandrovic (half Serb, half Romanian) in the village Malainica (Malajanica?). The Serbian Church tried to get him arrested. The Romananians/Vlachs are not taught Romanian in school. Try to inform yourself better. If you live next to Vlachs that doesn't mean you are well informed. Also on the window of the Romanian Association in Negotin some Serbs grafitti sprayed obescenities and the message: Get out of Serbia in Serbian language.
The very last country to talk about "solving" international problems is Romania. I think it was too fast to accept Romania in EU. A country where the corruption is at the highest level. Thanks to EU priviledge many of Romanian citizens (gypsies) are creating a lot of problems in Western countries especially in Italy. Romania has got a large Hungarina minority in its own country who are not at ease with the Romanian state.
I will give you information on Vlachs living in Eastern Serbia from the first hand since I live in Eastern part and all my life residing next to Vlachs.
Firstly I must say that I have no idea where do you get an idea that Vlach are Romanized Serbs. As far as I know and I am well informed by the Vlachs who actually live here (Negotin Krajina) they (Valchs) hate the idea of identifying them with Romanians. Why is it so, they however do not give much explanation and prefer to call themselves as Serbian Vlachs.
Some small percentage of Vlachs however does feel as Romanians and have their own Romanian church where they practice their religion and customs. There is also continuously going own the course of Romanian language for those who want to learn that language.
Vlachs also have TV programme and news in their own language and naturally the employees are either Romanians or Vlachs.
It should be also noted that the great percentage of Vlach migrated to the Western Europe in order to work. The biggest migration occurred during 70’s and 80’s and is still going on. Vlachs were massively moving to the West because they were quite uneducated and could not find any job in Serbia or ex YU. It is also very well known that they had all the equal opportunities for gaining good education, but for some unknown reasons they did not care much about schools.
Most of the younger Vlachs prefer not to educate him/her self since parents or grandparents send enough money so that they can live comfortable and very often “rampant” life.
Some of them choose to join family in the West as soon as they accomplish primary school.
For all of these, and their way of life, Serbia is not to be blamed but rather Vlachs themselves.
Remember Vlach themselves do not want to be identified with the Romanians and Serbs never ever forced any Vlach to identify with the Serbs. They all live freely, peacefully and in harmony with their neighbours Serbs. But it seems that you are the only one seeing the problem of Vlachs. Vlachs living in Serbia are not deprived of anything.
Doni,
When speaking about criminals, please do clean your backyard as it seems to be extremely dirty of garbage and begun to stink badly. Romania managed to the EU and as such will stay there but Albania will never come to, not even close to the EU.
"Western forces do not realize .."!!!Than help them to realize!Western forces (Italy)didn't realize that they were going to get a lot of trouble because of "romanians" become part of United Europe.Wonder what this guy is going to say after Serbia recognize Kosovo as an Indipendent State.Watch out, Transilvania!
Basescu is a smart guy, he knows that Serbia's integrity is, just like Romania's, must be respected.
@romanian
Stop talking about stupid things, that are long forgetten! It;s the president's fault that some romanians forgot to speak their ancestors language? Get real!
a message for Romania. They days of occupation are changing, you have something that is not yours.. ring a bell?? a piece of Hungary. FREEDOM for the Hungarian occupied lands.
Look who's talking..
Italy should say: "Problems started by Romanian EU entry must be stoped" therefore please take back all the romanian immigrants making lowest level crimes in our country. Romania is so poor and insignificant because of your corrupted governance Mr.
This guy is a wannabe dictator. He is using the National Anticorruption Agency to fight against his political opponents. Anyway he should be concerned more about the fate of the Romanians in northeastern Serbia. The younger generation of these Romanians no longer speaks Romanian. They are being assimilated and discriminated unlike the Romanians in Banat (part of Vojvodina). These Romanians are called vlasi (Wallachians) and according to the Serbian version they are Romanianized Serbs. If these Romanians are Romanianized Serbs then all of the Serbs are Slavicized Romanians because when the Slavs came into the Balkans and Vojvodina (Vojvodina is not part of the Balkans, it is situated north of the Danube) they found Romanians/Romans. Anyway everything that is now Serbian land was stolen either from the Romanians/Romans or from the Greeks (including Kosovo).
Hej Mr president of rumania. Time will come for your country to. You own some body else territory too. Wait please and then you can make any comment about this.
Basescu is a smart guy, he knows that Serbia's integrity is, just like Romania's, must be respected.
@romanian
Stop talking about stupid things, that are long forgetten! It;s the president's fault that some romanians forgot to speak their ancestors language? Get real!
ROMANIA DOES NOT have land which belongs to other countries!!! On the contrary, Romania's neighbors (former URSS and Bulgaria) have stolen territories which belonged to Romania.
Transylvania has from the oldest times been inhabited by Romanians. Transylvania does not belong to Hungary. Hungarians came from Asia and conquered Transylvania in the 11th century.
Gypsies are causing problems not only in Italy but also in Romania. They are a minority that is hard to integrate in society.
Don't forget that Albanian immigrants are also causing big problems for Italy, Greece etc.
Look who's talking..
Italy should say: "Problems started by Romanian EU entry must be stoped" therefore please take back all the romanian immigrants making lowest level crimes in our country. Romania is so poor and insignificant because of your corrupted governance Mr.
I will give you information on Vlachs living in Eastern Serbia from the first hand since I live in Eastern part and all my life residing next to Vlachs.
Firstly I must say that I have no idea where do you get an idea that Vlach are Romanized Serbs. As far as I know and I am well informed by the Vlachs who actually live here (Negotin Krajina) they (Valchs) hate the idea of identifying them with Romanians. Why is it so, they however do not give much explanation and prefer to call themselves as Serbian Vlachs.
Some small percentage of Vlachs however does feel as Romanians and have their own Romanian church where they practice their religion and customs. There is also continuously going own the course of Romanian language for those who want to learn that language.
Vlachs also have TV programme and news in their own language and naturally the employees are either Romanians or Vlachs.
It should be also noted that the great percentage of Vlach migrated to the Western Europe in order to work. The biggest migration occurred during 70’s and 80’s and is still going on. Vlachs were massively moving to the West because they were quite uneducated and could not find any job in Serbia or ex YU. It is also very well known that they had all the equal opportunities for gaining good education, but for some unknown reasons they did not care much about schools.
Most of the younger Vlachs prefer not to educate him/her self since parents or grandparents send enough money so that they can live comfortable and very often “rampant” life.
Some of them choose to join family in the West as soon as they accomplish primary school.
For all of these, and their way of life, Serbia is not to be blamed but rather Vlachs themselves.
Remember Vlach themselves do not want to be identified with the Romanians and Serbs never ever forced any Vlach to identify with the Serbs. They all live freely, peacefully and in harmony with their neighbours Serbs. But it seems that you are the only one seeing the problem of Vlachs. Vlachs living in Serbia are not deprived of anything.
Doni,
When speaking about criminals, please do clean your backyard as it seems to be extremely dirty of garbage and begun to stink badly. Romania managed to the EU and as such will stay there but Albania will never come to, not even close to the EU.
so, trying to present Romanians as criminals while at the same time being known for organized crime all across europe seems quite stupid to me.
and I have talked to some ex-KFOR soldiers, and they were not talking friendly words about the Albanians in the southern serbian province.
they told me that you can even distinguish whether you are entering an albanian village or a serbian one, by the first look.
I won´t write down the reason here, since it would only be deleted by "BigBrother B92".
and last but not least, signing a comment with " Illyrian" is ridiculous in itself.
The very last country to talk about "solving" international problems is Romania. I think it was too fast to accept Romania in EU. A country where the corruption is at the highest level. Thanks to EU priviledge many of Romanian citizens (gypsies) are creating a lot of problems in Western countries especially in Italy. Romania has got a large Hungarina minority in its own country who are not at ease with the Romanian state.
Hej Mr president of rumania. Time will come for your country to. You own some body else territory too. Wait please and then you can make any comment about this.
This guy is a wannabe dictator. He is using the National Anticorruption Agency to fight against his political opponents. Anyway he should be concerned more about the fate of the Romanians in northeastern Serbia. The younger generation of these Romanians no longer speaks Romanian. They are being assimilated and discriminated unlike the Romanians in Banat (part of Vojvodina). These Romanians are called vlasi (Wallachians) and according to the Serbian version they are Romanianized Serbs. If these Romanians are Romanianized Serbs then all of the Serbs are Slavicized Romanians because when the Slavs came into the Balkans and Vojvodina (Vojvodina is not part of the Balkans, it is situated north of the Danube) they found Romanians/Romans. Anyway everything that is now Serbian land was stolen either from the Romanians/Romans or from the Greeks (including Kosovo).
One Romanian church is more than enough in such small place as Negotin is. I wonder how many Serbian churches exist in your place or residing in Romania. As for Romanian language in schools as far as I know that right is guaranteed and practiced by the Romanian minority living in Vojvodina since they identify themselves with the Romanians. Vlachs on the other hand never proposed anything similar, otherwise they would be granted that right. Anyway the question is, how to introduce (to Vlachs) education on the language of the nation that they refuse to identify with? Don’t you think that such move would be rather bizarre? Had Vlachs had their own letter and functional language they would have had education by using their own language.
It appears that you are the only one who suggest sort of force upon the Vlachs to use Romanian language and its letter. By your judgment I feel that you want Vlachs become Romanians at any costs. Respect the fact that majority of Vlachs want to be Vlachs and those who want to be Romanians and feel as such (some few %) have all the conditions for doing so.
As a matter of the fact, I am very well informed and exactly the fact that I live with Vlach door to door, gives me a huge right to consider my self as well informed how the Vlachs feel, how they see themselves.
That priest that you were talking about was probably arrested for some other reasons and not for being a propagator of Romanian church, culture or whatever. The church was built by bless and the permission of Serbian authorities.
As for the window of the Romanian association in Negotin I never heard to be “target object”.
Perhaps that association is not for what it appears to be. If the representatives of that association share your opinion and have such suspicious attitude, then I no longer wonder why it came under the attack. Respect people’s choice, don’t try to force them be Romanians if they do not feel so.
a message for Romania. They days of occupation are changing, you have something that is not yours.. ring a bell?? a piece of Hungary. FREEDOM for the Hungarian occupied lands.
"Western forces do not realize .."!!!Than help them to realize!Western forces (Italy)didn't realize that they were going to get a lot of trouble because of "romanians" become part of United Europe.Wonder what this guy is going to say after Serbia recognize Kosovo as an Indipendent State.Watch out, Transilvania!
For those Hungarian "patriots" who posted here about Transilvania
We are waiting for you. Come again and we will ocupy Budapest. Again...
Transylvania will be Romanian land forever, like it was from ancient times. You have to respect the agreements you signed otherwise you'll be out of Europe. Better, go to Asia, where you had come from. Better, you should formulate territorial claims in Asia. It would be more appropiate...
fear play,
Kosovo is Serbian land. Serbian armies and Valachs contingents defended Kosovo from Turks in 14th century.
Later, the structure of population in this region changed due to Turkish ocupation.
Romanians will always be Serbs' friends. We supported each other for many times. Never been enemies.
Romania will never claim Serbian lands. We never adopted an agressive politics towards our neighbours. We defended ourself and we did it succesfully.
I personally hope that Kosovo will be a part a Serbia. Serbs fought hardly for their territories and unfortunately they had strong enemies...
Respects and all the best to Serbian people. Fight for your rights!
basescu is absolutely right. Minorities should be given individual cultural rights, not territorial ones.
But Kosovo's Albanians were given territorial rights more than 60 years ago within a country that does no longer exist! Fr all practical matters they were not part of Serbia for decades, had their own institutions, until an inapt attempt was made to take away their self-governing! What followed was a decade of occupation by Serbia, not participation within Serbia. That is what makes Kosovo unique. If today Kosovo gets somehow incorporated in Serbia, it will turn it into a two nation state, like Cyprus is bound to become after a potential unification. But such a shot gun marriage will never work. The West had no choice. Wonder why the Serbs can't understand that they got LIBERATED from Kosovo???
to Mircea & Paul:
"Hungarians came from Asia and conquered Transylvania in the 11th century."
I agree with it.On the other hand,serbs(slavic people)came approximately from the same place and the same time as hungarians in Europe.Then how come they pretend Kosova is their land??Did they bring it from Asia???
Well Mr Basescu you should tell that to Serbia. Serbia started these problems. It is easy to see that this guy is Warsaw nostalgic when he refers to "Western Powers". Maybe somebody should tell him it's 2009 and his country is part of the western block.
bmrusila
I know most of the Vlachs don't identify themselves with Romanians but the ones that do have no rights: the only church with Romanian service was built by priest Bojan Aleksandrovic (half Serb, half Romanian) in the village Malainica (Malajanica?). The Serbian Church tried to get him arrested. The Romananians/Vlachs are not taught Romanian in school. Try to inform yourself better. If you live next to Vlachs that doesn't mean you are well informed. Also on the window of the Romanian Association in Negotin some Serbs grafitti sprayed obescenities and the message: Get out of Serbia in Serbian language.
Just to add few things to the point "bmrusila" was making.
Vlachs were recognized in Serbia as a separate and official national minority in August 2007. They were separated from Romanians living in Banat area in this, although it was stated that Vlach language is Romanian.
But, let me ask you something, Romanian.
Take a good look at 20th century. Take note who was rulling in Belgrade throughout it. Tito - to name the one was a Croat. There were presidents like Mahmut Bakali (Albanian) and yes, Zoran Lilic, president of Federal Republic of Yugoslavia (Serbia and Montenegro) between 1993 and 1997. Vlach by nationality.
Now, let's take a look at 20th century Bukarest and who rulled there. Romania also have national minorities, as many here are pointing to Hungarians in Transilvania. Can you name one president of Romania that was Hungarian? Or Serbian perhaps? Or whatever, other then Romanian?
On the offtopic issues:
1. The situation of romanian/vlach minority in serbia and the Balkans. The pro-K UDI in Romania voices are actually those voices asking for more government action in helping the romanian minority in Timoc valley. Throughout the years reports presented in the romanian media were very disappointing in what regards their situation, civil and religious rights (especially religious service in romanian). Lately, though they never took their cause to the streets, things, as presented by different government bodies, are starting to get better and probably will get a lot better in the forthcoming years given Serbia's Eu integration. The issue of the romanian language and related aromanian, istroromanian, meglenoromanian in the Balkans is an issue over which all romanian governments were always criticized for not vigurously by all means supporting. As a consequence istroromanian (in Croatia) is almost extinct. Nobody ever suggested any territorial or other claim from the romanian state over these populations, but for romanians the issue is very sensible.
2. In the eyes of some, the "possible" transilvanian issue. As coming from a mixed transilvanian family I can only say, given what recent history showed us, that maybe Transilvania and the issue of the minorities in Romanaia as a political framework should have been taken as an example. Hungarians also never quite took their demands on the streets but in the public discussion through political means and that was a very appreciated approach. Now the main hungarian party is in the government for the last 12 yrs (like no other romanian party), minority rights in general are way better than in most "old" EU countries and whatever other issues to be settled wil be so settled by negotiations. Just one question, in how many countries one can take a driving licence exam in 5 different languages?
3. On the italo-romanian relations. Well, is nobody else's business but italians' an romanians'. The rroma migration and the issues raised are indeed unfortunate, but I don't think that in their collective mentality, gypsies are generaly bound to a territory or a country of passport.
On topic
I read Basescu's official declaration in romanian and I do not know how the german agency came up with the sintagm "western powers" in his declaration.
Anyway, he is saying for almost five years now that conflicts in the Caucasus are far from being solved and that there is a danger for fightings to restart. He was always the one to push on Nato or Eu's agenda the issues of the Black Sea region and of course nobody listened and things are now the way they are.
Indeed, he was one that opposed a possible Kosovo Udi since 2005, but the substance of this remark is related to the russian justification of their past present and future actions in Georgia and the Pandora box already oppened where minority rights are used as an excuse for dismantling different states and the big powers are playing the game "I give you this you give me that"
This is the policy that not only the Romanians followed up to now, but also other countries which hesitated to recognize the unilateral proclaimed independence of Kosovo. Hence, this is one more country to recognize the same independence as soon, "if they seriously think on their future integrations.
This Basescu met with George Bush not too long ago to try and make a deal where the Russian/Slavic part of Moldova would separate and then Romania would take back the rest of Moldova under Romania and Bush told him he wasn't in such a position to make that kind of a deal, and now because Basescu got shot down so hard on his idea about incorporating Moldova back into Romania he's talking about territorial integrity because he fears the next outburst will be in Transylvania with the Hungarians -- which eventually will happen.
So according to you Vlachs left Serbia and Yugoslavia because they were uneducated morons that couldn't land a job, but Serbs leaving Kosovo at the time were ethnically cleansed by Albanians?!
And by the way, I am Vlach Albanian that don't consider any connection whatsoever to Romania neither identify myself as Romanian! Does that make me a Serb too?
For one more time you showed your true nationalistic face with your comments about Serbian Vlachs! In other countries like Albania, Greece and Macedonia Vlachs were able to prosper and integrate succesfully into their societies. It seem in the "equal opportunities Serbia" they were glad to moves as far as possible!
(Niko,
Exactly so, the high percentage is uneducated, though that picture begun to change and thanks God for that. It is true, they could not find the job and thus moved t the West to be the simplest work force. Believe me that those who accomplished the schools rather than to marry very young and move West, found its happiness in Serbia. Every educated Vlach is employed and most of them are in leading positions.
Just don’t spread rubbish about ethnical cleansing of the Vlachs (in Timocka Krajina) by the Serbs.
As for your ethnical identity I could not care less, you may feel as you like. It seems that some people have problems accepting the fact that Serbia’s Vlachs from Timocka Krajina feel proud to be Serbia’s Vlachs.
Romanian,
So, you basically say that Vlachs must accept Romanian language and be thought at schools in Romanian language even though those Vlach refuse to speak Romanian and proudly declare as Vlachs who speak own dialect. Um, very strange democracy works in your part of Romania. For those who feel Romanian you suggest education in Romanian language but I must tell you that there must certain percentage to consider some ethnic group as minority. I am sorry to tell you that percentage of those who identify themselves as Romanians is way to law and thus not fit into the status of minority.
As I said, I haven’t seen those graffiti but I do condemn it as they are very tasteless, especially because they insult peaceful Vlachs.
Sorry. I posted my last comment with the nickname bmrusila. I was trying to address the comment to bmrusila. As I said before the Vlachs who declare themselves Romanian should be taught Romanian in schools (all of the Vlachs speak dialectal Romanian, regardless of what they declare themselves to be ethnically, there is no Vlach language)
You support the Serbs even though they treat the Romanians in Serbia very badly? Why is that? You probably have never heard of Romanians in northeastern Serbia and how badly they are being treated by Romanians. Anyway I wanna tell a little secret to the Serbs here. You will never have to worry about Romania. Romanians are extremely AFRAID that they might become surrounded by enemies. Hungary, Ukraine, Bulgaria and even Moldova will always be our enemies for territorial reasons. That is why all Romanian governments have abandoned the Romanians in northeastern Serbia. They are afraid that if they ask for more rights for them Serbia might take revenge and side with our enemies. Therefore you can even blackmail Romania on this isssue. There is no way you will go wrong.
Romanian (Vlach) minority in Serbia?
It is a topic that requires careful approach?
First of all it is important to keep in mind what is Romanian? The concept "Romanian" originated at the same time as the concept "Yugoslav". It was a collecttive term for a deverse range of people spread throughout the Balkans: Aroumanian, Kucovlachs. Vlachs, Moldavians etc. who spoke a Latin tongue.
THe unification of the two "Danubeian" Principalities in 1861 set the begining of the attempts to bring most of the Latin speakes under one national state. The Timok valley (that has neve before been part of Serbia and had no Serbs) was incorporated in Serbia in 1830's. Prince Mihajlo called it "Bulgarluk".
Yet unlike the local Bulgarians who were gradually assimilated within the Serbian nation (due to the proximity of the languages), the Vlach were allowed to retain their language. Gradually they developed a strong sense of loyality to the Serbian state and have vehemently opposed any irridentist propaganda! Last but not least, in the last 60 years they had much batter life that the Romanians in Romania and even today their villages look much more "European" then those in the EU member Romania. So there is no Vlach question in Serbia.
Greece, Serbia and Romania got too greedy when they could thanks to powerful allies and backstabbing, now things have changed. Return the stolen territory and this will end.
There is no Romanian church in Negotin. Bojan Aleksandrovic tried to use Romanian in the Serbian church in Malainica (Malajnica?) village. He was stopped by the representatives of your beloved Serbian Patriarchy and almost got arrested. Therefore the young priest decided to build a church in his own backyard!!! About the Romanian Association in Negotin. This is what happened. The Serbs sprayed obscenities on its window and the message: Get out of Serbia! Another message has been sprayed very recently on a Negotin wall: Serbia for Serbs, Romania for Vlachs! A message which asks the Vlachs to leave Serbia.
See this link:
http://www.rgnpress.ro/Politic/-asteptat-cu-mesaje-antiromanesti-in-Timoc.html#Scene_1
For those Vlachs that identify with Romanians they should be taught Romanian in schools like in Banat. According to the last Serbian census there are more than 30 000 Romanians in Timocka Krajina. These numbers are probably larger and have probably been falsified by the Serbian Statistical Institute, although it is true that most Vlachs declare themselves Serbian. There are about 250 000 Romanian speakers in Timocka Krajina.
In Romania there are Serbian churches and even 2-3 Serbian monasteries, Serbian is taught in school, there is even a Serbian high school although there are only 22 000 Serbs in Romania.
Anyway you should not worry about Romanians the younger generation (25 and under) doesn't speak Romanian anymore. I know that because I have been in Negotin and Kladovo.
I will give you information on Vlachs living in Eastern Serbia from the first hand since I live in Eastern part and all my life residing next to Vlachs.
Firstly I must say that I have no idea where do you get an idea that Vlach are Romanized Serbs. As far as I know and I am well informed by the Vlachs who actually live here (Negotin Krajina) they (Valchs) hate the idea of identifying them with Romanians. Why is it so, they however do not give much explanation and prefer to call themselves as Serbian Vlachs.
Some small percentage of Vlachs however does feel as Romanians and have their own Romanian church where they practice their religion and customs. There is also continuously going own the course of Romanian language for those who want to learn that language.
Vlachs also have TV programme and news in their own language and naturally the employees are either Romanians or Vlachs.
It should be also noted that the great percentage of Vlach migrated to the Western Europe in order to work. The biggest migration occurred during 70’s and 80’s and is still going on. Vlachs were massively moving to the West because they were quite uneducated and could not find any job in Serbia or ex YU. It is also very well known that they had all the equal opportunities for gaining good education, but for some unknown reasons they did not care much about schools.
Most of the younger Vlachs prefer not to educate him/her self since parents or grandparents send enough money so that they can live comfortable and very often “rampant” life.
Some of them choose to join family in the West as soon as they accomplish primary school.
For all of these, and their way of life, Serbia is not to be blamed but rather Vlachs themselves.
Remember Vlach themselves do not want to be identified with the Romanians and Serbs never ever forced any Vlach to identify with the Serbs. They all live freely, peacefully and in harmony with their neighbours Serbs. But it seems that you are the only one seeing the problem of Vlachs. Vlachs living in Serbia are not deprived of anything.
(bmrusila, 23 August 2008 16:34)
So according to you Vlachs left Serbia and Yugoslavia because they were uneducated morons that couldn't land a job, but Serbs leaving Kosovo at the time were ethnically cleansed by Albanians?!
And by the way, I am Vlach Albanian that don't consider any connection whatsoever to Romania neither identify myself as Romanian! Does that make me a Serb too?
For one more time you showed your true nationalistic face with your comments about Serbian Vlachs! In other countries like Albania, Greece and Macedonia Vlachs were able to prosper and integrate succesfully into their societies. It seem in the "equal opportunities Serbia" they were glad to moves as far as possible!
A little comment from an Italian about Romanian..
until 3-4 years ago there was a large majority of positive thinking in italy about Romanians..many have come here for work and there were only few problems(manly prostitution and some robberies)...than things have changed...many arrive here only for trubles and a large amount of gipsies have occupaied the streets of our towns...so the yes rating to Romania has dropped sensetively..now is only 40%..
What is difficoult to understand now is that while Romania has a booming Gdp italy is ...dead..so it was supposed that some of the 1.000.000 of Romanians who are in Bel Paese must be thinking to return home..(like for example have done the Polish )..
For the moment ....they keep staying here ...
There are about 40 000 'Vlachs' in northeastern Serbia (not 30 000 as I said before, according to the last Serbian census). Their real numbers is much higher (250 000) but the Serbian Statistical Institute has falsified the data. In Banat there are 30 000 Romanians which means the percentage of the Romanians in northeastern Serbia is no not very low. Their children should be taught Romanian in school since they have declared they are Vlachs and not Serbs. It doesn't matter if they are taught in dialect or in standard Romanian, the thing is they should be taught Romanian like in Vojvodina. The Vlachs that don't declare themselves Vlach in the census should not be forced to learn Romanian if they don't want to.
Where exactly have you learnt that the Romanians' situation in Timocka Krajina is getting better? It seems you are just a very Serbophile Romanian who likes Serbs despite the fact that they trea Romanians badly. As for Aromanian, Meglenoromanian and Istroromanian, these are no longer Romanian dialects. I as a Romanian cannot understand half of what an Aromanian is saying. Bulgarian and Macedonian, Czech and Slovak, Norwegian, Swedish and Danish are more similar than Romanian and Aromanian but they are distinct languages. You should inform yourself better.
Of course there is a Vlach question in Serbia and there will always be as long as there are tens of thousands of Vlachs who do not identify with Serbs (over 40 000 in the last Serbian census)
Look who's talking..
Italy should say: "Problems started by Romanian EU entry must be stoped" therefore please take back all the romanian immigrants making lowest level crimes in our country. Romania is so poor and insignificant because of your corrupted governance Mr.
Hej Mr president of rumania. Time will come for your country to. You own some body else territory too. Wait please and then you can make any comment about this.
The very last country to talk about "solving" international problems is Romania. I think it was too fast to accept Romania in EU. A country where the corruption is at the highest level. Thanks to EU priviledge many of Romanian citizens (gypsies) are creating a lot of problems in Western countries especially in Italy. Romania has got a large Hungarina minority in its own country who are not at ease with the Romanian state.
This guy is a wannabe dictator. He is using the National Anticorruption Agency to fight against his political opponents. Anyway he should be concerned more about the fate of the Romanians in northeastern Serbia. The younger generation of these Romanians no longer speaks Romanian. They are being assimilated and discriminated unlike the Romanians in Banat (part of Vojvodina). These Romanians are called vlasi (Wallachians) and according to the Serbian version they are Romanianized Serbs. If these Romanians are Romanianized Serbs then all of the Serbs are Slavicized Romanians because when the Slavs came into the Balkans and Vojvodina (Vojvodina is not part of the Balkans, it is situated north of the Danube) they found Romanians/Romans. Anyway everything that is now Serbian land was stolen either from the Romanians/Romans or from the Greeks (including Kosovo).
a message for Romania. They days of occupation are changing, you have something that is not yours.. ring a bell?? a piece of Hungary. FREEDOM for the Hungarian occupied lands.
"Western forces do not realize .."!!!Than help them to realize!Western forces (Italy)didn't realize that they were going to get a lot of trouble because of "romanians" become part of United Europe.Wonder what this guy is going to say after Serbia recognize Kosovo as an Indipendent State.Watch out, Transilvania!
bmrusila
I know most of the Vlachs don't identify themselves with Romanians but the ones that do have no rights: the only church with Romanian service was built by priest Bojan Aleksandrovic (half Serb, half Romanian) in the village Malainica (Malajanica?). The Serbian Church tried to get him arrested. The Romananians/Vlachs are not taught Romanian in school. Try to inform yourself better. If you live next to Vlachs that doesn't mean you are well informed. Also on the window of the Romanian Association in Negotin some Serbs grafitti sprayed obescenities and the message: Get out of Serbia in Serbian language.
basescu is absolutely right. Minorities should be given individual cultural rights, not territorial ones.
But Kosovo's Albanians were given territorial rights more than 60 years ago within a country that does no longer exist! Fr all practical matters they were not part of Serbia for decades, had their own institutions, until an inapt attempt was made to take away their self-governing! What followed was a decade of occupation by Serbia, not participation within Serbia. That is what makes Kosovo unique. If today Kosovo gets somehow incorporated in Serbia, it will turn it into a two nation state, like Cyprus is bound to become after a potential unification. But such a shot gun marriage will never work. The West had no choice. Wonder why the Serbs can't understand that they got LIBERATED from Kosovo???
Well Mr Basescu you should tell that to Serbia. Serbia started these problems. It is easy to see that this guy is Warsaw nostalgic when he refers to "Western Powers". Maybe somebody should tell him it's 2009 and his country is part of the western block.
This is the policy that not only the Romanians followed up to now, but also other countries which hesitated to recognize the unilateral proclaimed independence of Kosovo. Hence, this is one more country to recognize the same independence as soon, "if they seriously think on their future integrations.
This Basescu met with George Bush not too long ago to try and make a deal where the Russian/Slavic part of Moldova would separate and then Romania would take back the rest of Moldova under Romania and Bush told him he wasn't in such a position to make that kind of a deal, and now because Basescu got shot down so hard on his idea about incorporating Moldova back into Romania he's talking about territorial integrity because he fears the next outburst will be in Transylvania with the Hungarians -- which eventually will happen.
Basescu is a smart guy, he knows that Serbia's integrity is, just like Romania's, must be respected.
@romanian
Stop talking about stupid things, that are long forgetten! It;s the president's fault that some romanians forgot to speak their ancestors language? Get real!
Greece, Serbia and Romania got too greedy when they could thanks to powerful allies and backstabbing, now things have changed. Return the stolen territory and this will end.
to Mircea & Paul:
"Hungarians came from Asia and conquered Transylvania in the 11th century."
I agree with it.On the other hand,serbs(slavic people)came approximately from the same place and the same time as hungarians in Europe.Then how come they pretend Kosova is their land??Did they bring it from Asia???
I will give you information on Vlachs living in Eastern Serbia from the first hand since I live in Eastern part and all my life residing next to Vlachs.
Firstly I must say that I have no idea where do you get an idea that Vlach are Romanized Serbs. As far as I know and I am well informed by the Vlachs who actually live here (Negotin Krajina) they (Valchs) hate the idea of identifying them with Romanians. Why is it so, they however do not give much explanation and prefer to call themselves as Serbian Vlachs.
Some small percentage of Vlachs however does feel as Romanians and have their own Romanian church where they practice their religion and customs. There is also continuously going own the course of Romanian language for those who want to learn that language.
Vlachs also have TV programme and news in their own language and naturally the employees are either Romanians or Vlachs.
It should be also noted that the great percentage of Vlach migrated to the Western Europe in order to work. The biggest migration occurred during 70’s and 80’s and is still going on. Vlachs were massively moving to the West because they were quite uneducated and could not find any job in Serbia or ex YU. It is also very well known that they had all the equal opportunities for gaining good education, but for some unknown reasons they did not care much about schools.
Most of the younger Vlachs prefer not to educate him/her self since parents or grandparents send enough money so that they can live comfortable and very often “rampant” life.
Some of them choose to join family in the West as soon as they accomplish primary school.
For all of these, and their way of life, Serbia is not to be blamed but rather Vlachs themselves.
Remember Vlach themselves do not want to be identified with the Romanians and Serbs never ever forced any Vlach to identify with the Serbs. They all live freely, peacefully and in harmony with their neighbours Serbs. But it seems that you are the only one seeing the problem of Vlachs. Vlachs living in Serbia are not deprived of anything.
Doni,
When speaking about criminals, please do clean your backyard as it seems to be extremely dirty of garbage and begun to stink badly. Romania managed to the EU and as such will stay there but Albania will never come to, not even close to the EU.
so, trying to present Romanians as criminals while at the same time being known for organized crime all across europe seems quite stupid to me.
and I have talked to some ex-KFOR soldiers, and they were not talking friendly words about the Albanians in the southern serbian province.
they told me that you can even distinguish whether you are entering an albanian village or a serbian one, by the first look.
I won´t write down the reason here, since it would only be deleted by "BigBrother B92".
and last but not least, signing a comment with " Illyrian" is ridiculous in itself.
Just to add few things to the point "bmrusila" was making.
Vlachs were recognized in Serbia as a separate and official national minority in August 2007. They were separated from Romanians living in Banat area in this, although it was stated that Vlach language is Romanian.
But, let me ask you something, Romanian.
Take a good look at 20th century. Take note who was rulling in Belgrade throughout it. Tito - to name the one was a Croat. There were presidents like Mahmut Bakali (Albanian) and yes, Zoran Lilic, president of Federal Republic of Yugoslavia (Serbia and Montenegro) between 1993 and 1997. Vlach by nationality.
Now, let's take a look at 20th century Bukarest and who rulled there. Romania also have national minorities, as many here are pointing to Hungarians in Transilvania. Can you name one president of Romania that was Hungarian? Or Serbian perhaps? Or whatever, other then Romanian?
I will give you information on Vlachs living in Eastern Serbia from the first hand since I live in Eastern part and all my life residing next to Vlachs.
Firstly I must say that I have no idea where do you get an idea that Vlach are Romanized Serbs. As far as I know and I am well informed by the Vlachs who actually live here (Negotin Krajina) they (Valchs) hate the idea of identifying them with Romanians. Why is it so, they however do not give much explanation and prefer to call themselves as Serbian Vlachs.
Some small percentage of Vlachs however does feel as Romanians and have their own Romanian church where they practice their religion and customs. There is also continuously going own the course of Romanian language for those who want to learn that language.
Vlachs also have TV programme and news in their own language and naturally the employees are either Romanians or Vlachs.
It should be also noted that the great percentage of Vlach migrated to the Western Europe in order to work. The biggest migration occurred during 70’s and 80’s and is still going on. Vlachs were massively moving to the West because they were quite uneducated and could not find any job in Serbia or ex YU. It is also very well known that they had all the equal opportunities for gaining good education, but for some unknown reasons they did not care much about schools.
Most of the younger Vlachs prefer not to educate him/her self since parents or grandparents send enough money so that they can live comfortable and very often “rampant” life.
Some of them choose to join family in the West as soon as they accomplish primary school.
For all of these, and their way of life, Serbia is not to be blamed but rather Vlachs themselves.
Remember Vlach themselves do not want to be identified with the Romanians and Serbs never ever forced any Vlach to identify with the Serbs. They all live freely, peacefully and in harmony with their neighbours Serbs. But it seems that you are the only one seeing the problem of Vlachs. Vlachs living in Serbia are not deprived of anything.
(bmrusila, 23 August 2008 16:34)
So according to you Vlachs left Serbia and Yugoslavia because they were uneducated morons that couldn't land a job, but Serbs leaving Kosovo at the time were ethnically cleansed by Albanians?!
And by the way, I am Vlach Albanian that don't consider any connection whatsoever to Romania neither identify myself as Romanian! Does that make me a Serb too?
For one more time you showed your true nationalistic face with your comments about Serbian Vlachs! In other countries like Albania, Greece and Macedonia Vlachs were able to prosper and integrate succesfully into their societies. It seem in the "equal opportunities Serbia" they were glad to moves as far as possible!
For those Hungarian "patriots" who posted here about Transilvania
We are waiting for you. Come again and we will ocupy Budapest. Again...
Transylvania will be Romanian land forever, like it was from ancient times. You have to respect the agreements you signed otherwise you'll be out of Europe. Better, go to Asia, where you had come from. Better, you should formulate territorial claims in Asia. It would be more appropiate...
One Romanian church is more than enough in such small place as Negotin is. I wonder how many Serbian churches exist in your place or residing in Romania. As for Romanian language in schools as far as I know that right is guaranteed and practiced by the Romanian minority living in Vojvodina since they identify themselves with the Romanians. Vlachs on the other hand never proposed anything similar, otherwise they would be granted that right. Anyway the question is, how to introduce (to Vlachs) education on the language of the nation that they refuse to identify with? Don’t you think that such move would be rather bizarre? Had Vlachs had their own letter and functional language they would have had education by using their own language.
It appears that you are the only one who suggest sort of force upon the Vlachs to use Romanian language and its letter. By your judgment I feel that you want Vlachs become Romanians at any costs. Respect the fact that majority of Vlachs want to be Vlachs and those who want to be Romanians and feel as such (some few %) have all the conditions for doing so.
As a matter of the fact, I am very well informed and exactly the fact that I live with Vlach door to door, gives me a huge right to consider my self as well informed how the Vlachs feel, how they see themselves.
That priest that you were talking about was probably arrested for some other reasons and not for being a propagator of Romanian church, culture or whatever. The church was built by bless and the permission of Serbian authorities.
As for the window of the Romanian association in Negotin I never heard to be “target object”.
Perhaps that association is not for what it appears to be. If the representatives of that association share your opinion and have such suspicious attitude, then I no longer wonder why it came under the attack. Respect people’s choice, don’t try to force them be Romanians if they do not feel so.
ROMANIA DOES NOT have land which belongs to other countries!!! On the contrary, Romania's neighbors (former URSS and Bulgaria) have stolen territories which belonged to Romania.
Transylvania has from the oldest times been inhabited by Romanians. Transylvania does not belong to Hungary. Hungarians came from Asia and conquered Transylvania in the 11th century.
Gypsies are causing problems not only in Italy but also in Romania. They are a minority that is hard to integrate in society.
Don't forget that Albanian immigrants are also causing big problems for Italy, Greece etc.
There is no Romanian church in Negotin. Bojan Aleksandrovic tried to use Romanian in the Serbian church in Malainica (Malajnica?) village. He was stopped by the representatives of your beloved Serbian Patriarchy and almost got arrested. Therefore the young priest decided to build a church in his own backyard!!! About the Romanian Association in Negotin. This is what happened. The Serbs sprayed obscenities on its window and the message: Get out of Serbia! Another message has been sprayed very recently on a Negotin wall: Serbia for Serbs, Romania for Vlachs! A message which asks the Vlachs to leave Serbia.
See this link:
http://www.rgnpress.ro/Politic/-asteptat-cu-mesaje-antiromanesti-in-Timoc.html#Scene_1
For those Vlachs that identify with Romanians they should be taught Romanian in schools like in Banat. According to the last Serbian census there are more than 30 000 Romanians in Timocka Krajina. These numbers are probably larger and have probably been falsified by the Serbian Statistical Institute, although it is true that most Vlachs declare themselves Serbian. There are about 250 000 Romanian speakers in Timocka Krajina.
In Romania there are Serbian churches and even 2-3 Serbian monasteries, Serbian is taught in school, there is even a Serbian high school although there are only 22 000 Serbs in Romania.
Anyway you should not worry about Romanians the younger generation (25 and under) doesn't speak Romanian anymore. I know that because I have been in Negotin and Kladovo.
Sorry. I posted my last comment with the nickname bmrusila. I was trying to address the comment to bmrusila. As I said before the Vlachs who declare themselves Romanian should be taught Romanian in schools (all of the Vlachs speak dialectal Romanian, regardless of what they declare themselves to be ethnically, there is no Vlach language)
A little comment from an Italian about Romanian..
until 3-4 years ago there was a large majority of positive thinking in italy about Romanians..many have come here for work and there were only few problems(manly prostitution and some robberies)...than things have changed...many arrive here only for trubles and a large amount of gipsies have occupaied the streets of our towns...so the yes rating to Romania has dropped sensetively..now is only 40%..
What is difficoult to understand now is that while Romania has a booming Gdp italy is ...dead..so it was supposed that some of the 1.000.000 of Romanians who are in Bel Paese must be thinking to return home..(like for example have done the Polish )..
For the moment ....they keep staying here ...
So according to you Vlachs left Serbia and Yugoslavia because they were uneducated morons that couldn't land a job, but Serbs leaving Kosovo at the time were ethnically cleansed by Albanians?!
And by the way, I am Vlach Albanian that don't consider any connection whatsoever to Romania neither identify myself as Romanian! Does that make me a Serb too?
For one more time you showed your true nationalistic face with your comments about Serbian Vlachs! In other countries like Albania, Greece and Macedonia Vlachs were able to prosper and integrate succesfully into their societies. It seem in the "equal opportunities Serbia" they were glad to moves as far as possible!
(Niko,
Exactly so, the high percentage is uneducated, though that picture begun to change and thanks God for that. It is true, they could not find the job and thus moved t the West to be the simplest work force. Believe me that those who accomplished the schools rather than to marry very young and move West, found its happiness in Serbia. Every educated Vlach is employed and most of them are in leading positions.
Just don’t spread rubbish about ethnical cleansing of the Vlachs (in Timocka Krajina) by the Serbs.
As for your ethnical identity I could not care less, you may feel as you like. It seems that some people have problems accepting the fact that Serbia’s Vlachs from Timocka Krajina feel proud to be Serbia’s Vlachs.
Romanian,
So, you basically say that Vlachs must accept Romanian language and be thought at schools in Romanian language even though those Vlach refuse to speak Romanian and proudly declare as Vlachs who speak own dialect. Um, very strange democracy works in your part of Romania. For those who feel Romanian you suggest education in Romanian language but I must tell you that there must certain percentage to consider some ethnic group as minority. I am sorry to tell you that percentage of those who identify themselves as Romanians is way to law and thus not fit into the status of minority.
As I said, I haven’t seen those graffiti but I do condemn it as they are very tasteless, especially because they insult peaceful Vlachs.
On the offtopic issues:
1. The situation of romanian/vlach minority in serbia and the Balkans. The pro-K UDI in Romania voices are actually those voices asking for more government action in helping the romanian minority in Timoc valley. Throughout the years reports presented in the romanian media were very disappointing in what regards their situation, civil and religious rights (especially religious service in romanian). Lately, though they never took their cause to the streets, things, as presented by different government bodies, are starting to get better and probably will get a lot better in the forthcoming years given Serbia's Eu integration. The issue of the romanian language and related aromanian, istroromanian, meglenoromanian in the Balkans is an issue over which all romanian governments were always criticized for not vigurously by all means supporting. As a consequence istroromanian (in Croatia) is almost extinct. Nobody ever suggested any territorial or other claim from the romanian state over these populations, but for romanians the issue is very sensible.
2. In the eyes of some, the "possible" transilvanian issue. As coming from a mixed transilvanian family I can only say, given what recent history showed us, that maybe Transilvania and the issue of the minorities in Romanaia as a political framework should have been taken as an example. Hungarians also never quite took their demands on the streets but in the public discussion through political means and that was a very appreciated approach. Now the main hungarian party is in the government for the last 12 yrs (like no other romanian party), minority rights in general are way better than in most "old" EU countries and whatever other issues to be settled wil be so settled by negotiations. Just one question, in how many countries one can take a driving licence exam in 5 different languages?
3. On the italo-romanian relations. Well, is nobody else's business but italians' an romanians'. The rroma migration and the issues raised are indeed unfortunate, but I don't think that in their collective mentality, gypsies are generaly bound to a territory or a country of passport.
On topic
I read Basescu's official declaration in romanian and I do not know how the german agency came up with the sintagm "western powers" in his declaration.
Anyway, he is saying for almost five years now that conflicts in the Caucasus are far from being solved and that there is a danger for fightings to restart. He was always the one to push on Nato or Eu's agenda the issues of the Black Sea region and of course nobody listened and things are now the way they are.
Indeed, he was one that opposed a possible Kosovo Udi since 2005, but the substance of this remark is related to the russian justification of their past present and future actions in Georgia and the Pandora box already oppened where minority rights are used as an excuse for dismantling different states and the big powers are playing the game "I give you this you give me that"
There are about 40 000 'Vlachs' in northeastern Serbia (not 30 000 as I said before, according to the last Serbian census). Their real numbers is much higher (250 000) but the Serbian Statistical Institute has falsified the data. In Banat there are 30 000 Romanians which means the percentage of the Romanians in northeastern Serbia is no not very low. Their children should be taught Romanian in school since they have declared they are Vlachs and not Serbs. It doesn't matter if they are taught in dialect or in standard Romanian, the thing is they should be taught Romanian like in Vojvodina. The Vlachs that don't declare themselves Vlach in the census should not be forced to learn Romanian if they don't want to.
Where exactly have you learnt that the Romanians' situation in Timocka Krajina is getting better? It seems you are just a very Serbophile Romanian who likes Serbs despite the fact that they trea Romanians badly. As for Aromanian, Meglenoromanian and Istroromanian, these are no longer Romanian dialects. I as a Romanian cannot understand half of what an Aromanian is saying. Bulgarian and Macedonian, Czech and Slovak, Norwegian, Swedish and Danish are more similar than Romanian and Aromanian but they are distinct languages. You should inform yourself better.
fear play,
Kosovo is Serbian land. Serbian armies and Valachs contingents defended Kosovo from Turks in 14th century.
Later, the structure of population in this region changed due to Turkish ocupation.
Romanians will always be Serbs' friends. We supported each other for many times. Never been enemies.
Romania will never claim Serbian lands. We never adopted an agressive politics towards our neighbours. We defended ourself and we did it succesfully.
I personally hope that Kosovo will be a part a Serbia. Serbs fought hardly for their territories and unfortunately they had strong enemies...
Respects and all the best to Serbian people. Fight for your rights!
You support the Serbs even though they treat the Romanians in Serbia very badly? Why is that? You probably have never heard of Romanians in northeastern Serbia and how badly they are being treated by Romanians. Anyway I wanna tell a little secret to the Serbs here. You will never have to worry about Romania. Romanians are extremely AFRAID that they might become surrounded by enemies. Hungary, Ukraine, Bulgaria and even Moldova will always be our enemies for territorial reasons. That is why all Romanian governments have abandoned the Romanians in northeastern Serbia. They are afraid that if they ask for more rights for them Serbia might take revenge and side with our enemies. Therefore you can even blackmail Romania on this isssue. There is no way you will go wrong.
Romanian (Vlach) minority in Serbia?
It is a topic that requires careful approach?
First of all it is important to keep in mind what is Romanian? The concept "Romanian" originated at the same time as the concept "Yugoslav". It was a collecttive term for a deverse range of people spread throughout the Balkans: Aroumanian, Kucovlachs. Vlachs, Moldavians etc. who spoke a Latin tongue.
THe unification of the two "Danubeian" Principalities in 1861 set the begining of the attempts to bring most of the Latin speakes under one national state. The Timok valley (that has neve before been part of Serbia and had no Serbs) was incorporated in Serbia in 1830's. Prince Mihajlo called it "Bulgarluk".
Yet unlike the local Bulgarians who were gradually assimilated within the Serbian nation (due to the proximity of the languages), the Vlach were allowed to retain their language. Gradually they developed a strong sense of loyality to the Serbian state and have vehemently opposed any irridentist propaganda! Last but not least, in the last 60 years they had much batter life that the Romanians in Romania and even today their villages look much more "European" then those in the EU member Romania. So there is no Vlach question in Serbia.
Of course there is a Vlach question in Serbia and there will always be as long as there are tens of thousands of Vlachs who do not identify with Serbs (over 40 000 in the last Serbian census)
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