Southwestern Serbian town "won't speak Bosnian"

I am sure Natasa Kandic and company will be all over this one, spitting on Serbia and doing what her masters (the people who sign her paycheque in the US) tell her.
The Bosnian language does not even exist - Bosnians speak Serbian with a different accent, as do Montenegrins and Croats. It is just more fantasies created by the likes of Richard Holbrooke to divide people, and conquer. Otherwise I can go around bragging that I speak 5 different languages!

Oh Ahmet Isufi, what an original and insightful post, bravo! Please, what other oneliners do you have in the "Serbia is a BAD BAD country" handbook?

Isn't "Bosnian" just a dialect of Serbo-Croatian?

Ahmet Isufi.. the Albanian language is actually different than "Bosnian".

This goes from Patriotism to stupid and idiotic nationalism. Bosnians speak the language that Vuk Karadzic established. That was and always is Serbian. I would even accept "Serbo-Croatian" but Bosnian? There is a argument in a municipal parliament to add the same exact language to the municipality.

Fine.. if thats the case.. then I speak English, American, South African, Canadian, Serbian, Bosnian, Croatian and Montenegrin... see how stupid it becomes?

According to the last local census, there are 30,377 resident of Priboj, of which 23 percent are Muslims, and the constitution, gives them the right to use their own language


SINCE WHEN DID MUSLIM BECOME A LANGUAGE. Why do I have to read comments like that! You are not a Bosnian if you live in Serbia. Bosnia is a seperate country! Bosniak is the same language as Serbian, Croatian, and Montengrin (little difference in dialect). Any Muslims in Serbia are Serbian muslims not Bosniaks.
People in the Balkans are so naive and ignorant it makes me sick to my stomach. We are all the same people!

Let's now use some common sense. The official language in the US is english because the majority of its inhabitants speak english. No one is forbidden to speak any other language they wish to or call it whatever they want. The same is true in this case. The majority of the population is Serbian, so the official language is Serbian. The remainder of the population can speak whatever they want, whenever they want, and call it whatever they want. See how common sense prevails when used properly! Thank you.

I speak English but also Californian. Im moving from California to Oregon and I think the transition to the Oregonian dialect wont be to hard.

I could never understand anything George Bush ever said----but one day Ill learn the Texan dialect and it will be ok.

"strategery"

Differences in accent intonations and a few words here and there aside, it's the same damn language people.

hm, this is how serbs respect minorities and they got the guts to ask albanians in kosova to respect serb minorities.
(Ahmet Isufi, 22 August 2008 14:46)

Ahmet my good man you have just managed to yet further undermine your very presence on this website (if that was possible) by demonstarting your profound lack of knowledge. Bosnian and Serbian are the same language, this is nothing more than a patriotism excersise by some fundamentalist muslims who want to create a divide between essentially the same people.
Nothing new here, just going back in time as usual

hm, this is how serbs respect minorities and they got the guts to ask albanians in kosova to respect serb minorities.

Does not matter how they call it, even if they call it Sarajevans language, Serbia should LEGALISE it. Bosnian in Sanjak want to speak Bosnian, let them do, and WILL HAVE TO BE MADE an official language.

For Serbia is novelty to treat minorities democratically.

That's what they say about Bulgarian and Macedonian but you don't see Macedonians call it Bulgarian now do you?

Whining that it is the same language is just smokescreen and makes it ok for you to trample over the rights of minorities - God knows Serbia is pretty good at that, with a solid record to prove.

Can some that are more familiar with the situation in Croatia confirm or deny that Serbian/Cyrillic is an official language in Croatia?

Just curious.

Hajduk

Oh for crying out load this is exactly what to expect from LDP and co.

These "Bosnians" need to stop whining its not as if they can't understand the bloody language! Some poster here like are really pathetic in trying to paint Serbia as hostile to its minorities when in truth its provided more to them than any other country in the Balkans BY FAR!

Jan,

I'll go back to my previous example. Since when are street signs written in spanish in the US? Or even better, since when do you have arabic in official documents in France or Germany where the muslim population is predominant in some areas? You don't, of course. Your example of the judge and understanding of language is completely flawed as well. Both people from Bosnia and people from Serbia understand each other perfectly well. This whole issue only comes down to a minority attempting to assert influence, nothing else. Once again, common sense prevails!

Jan,

That was exactly my point. Spanish and Arabic are not official languages, but you have minority peoples in the US and Germany that speak these languages. The comparison is the same to Bosnian minorities. They should not have an official language as minorities just like Mexicans and Arabs don't have official languages in the countries they live in. Any clearer?

On 22 August 2008 19:31, USA wrote:

"The official language in the US is english because the majority of its inhabitants speak english. No one is forbidden to speak any other language they wish to or call it whatever they want. The same is true in this case."

Maybe you need to look up the meaning of "official language" mr. USA. It has nothing to do with what language people can and can not use in private. In this case, it is about which language(s) this Priboj municipality MUST support in an official capacity. Like street signs in both Cyrillic and Latin characters. Official forms like building permits or driver tests being available in both languages/dialects. The right to be able to speak in front of a judge in your own language and not by an interpreter. That is what "official language" means.
--

On 23 August 2008, 09:45, USA wrote:

"Since when are street signs written in spanish in the US? Or even better, since when do you have arabic in official documents in France or Germany (...)"

You make no sense at all mr. USA. Or perhaps that is EXACTLY what you do. Spanish is NOT an official language in the USA, and Arabic is NOT an official language in German and France - hence you DO NOT see Spanish/Arabic street signs in those countries.

You might want to look up these declarations made by the Danish and the German governments concerning the rights of the Danish and German speaking minorities in Northern and Southern Schleswig:

http://www.ecmi.de/7/2004/10/07/Bonn-Copenhagen-Declarations.php

Quote:

* 1. It shall be possible freely to profess one's loyalty to the German people and German culture and such a profession of loyalty shall not be contested or verified by an official authority.

* 2. Members of the German minority and their organizations may not be hindered from speaking and writing the language of their choice. The use of the German language in courts and administrative agencies shall be governed by the relevant legal provisions.

* 3. General schools and (also specialist) adult education centres as well as kindergartens may, in line with the relevant legal provisions, be set up by the German minority pursuant to the principle of the freedom of teaching in force in Denmark.

* 4. Since, under local Legislation, the committees of local representative bodies are set up on the basis of proportional representation, representatives of the German minority shall be involved in committee work in proportion to their numbers.

* 5. The Danish Government recommends that the German minority be duly taken into consideration within the framework of the rules in force on the use of radio.

* 6. In respect of assistance and other benefits from public funds on which a discretionary decision is taken, the members of the German minority shall not be treated differently forrn other citizens.

* 7. In respect of public notifications the newspapers of the German minority should be duly taken into consideration.

* 8. The special interest of the German minority in fostering contacts with Germany in the religious and cultural as well as in specialist fields shall be acknowledged.

End quote.

I am not an expert on the matter, but provision 7 is to me a clear example of what makes a language "official": That government announcements have to be publicized in both Danish and German.

Provision 5 is probably necessitated by the strict laws applied in Denmark about who can broadcast radio. Until recently, all radio broadcasting was done by the state-owned "Denmark Radio". Provision 5 is probably about how a certain percentage of the radio shows, news, etc, has to be in German. Again, making German an official language.

On 23 August 2008, 19:41, USA wrote:

"That was exactly my point. Spanish and Arabic are not official languages, but you have minority peoples in the US and Germany that speak these languages."

And? There newer was an indigenous group of Spanish speaking people in the USA (well, California Texas and some of the southern states were under Spanish/Mexican rule for a long time, but I think it is up to debate how indigenous those people really where). And certainly no Arabic speaking minority in Germany. Their current presence there is due to voluntary immigration.

"The comparison is the same to Bosnian minorities."

No, it is not. The German speaking minority in Denmark, and the Danish speak minority in Germany is the result of arbitrary borders being drawn and redrawn around the people living there. Those minorities did not immigrate anywhere. They stayed put, while the countries moved around them.

I assume it is the same with many of the Bosnian, Serbian, Croatian and Albanian minorities in the Balkans. They got left behind as borders were drawn. They did not immigrate anywhere.

That's what they say about Bulgarian and Macedonian but you don't see Macedonians call it Bulgarian now do you?

Whining that it is the same language is just smokescreen and makes it ok for you to trample over the rights of minorities - God knows Serbia is pretty good at that, with a solid record to prove.

hm, this is how serbs respect minorities and they got the guts to ask albanians in kosova to respect serb minorities.

Does not matter how they call it, even if they call it Sarajevans language, Serbia should LEGALISE it. Bosnian in Sanjak want to speak Bosnian, let them do, and WILL HAVE TO BE MADE an official language.

For Serbia is novelty to treat minorities democratically.

According to the last local census, there are 30,377 resident of Priboj, of which 23 percent are Muslims, and the constitution, gives them the right to use their own language


SINCE WHEN DID MUSLIM BECOME A LANGUAGE. Why do I have to read comments like that! You are not a Bosnian if you live in Serbia. Bosnia is a seperate country! Bosniak is the same language as Serbian, Croatian, and Montengrin (little difference in dialect). Any Muslims in Serbia are Serbian muslims not Bosniaks.
People in the Balkans are so naive and ignorant it makes me sick to my stomach. We are all the same people!

Oh for crying out load this is exactly what to expect from LDP and co.

These "Bosnians" need to stop whining its not as if they can't understand the bloody language! Some poster here like are really pathetic in trying to paint Serbia as hostile to its minorities when in truth its provided more to them than any other country in the Balkans BY FAR!

On 22 August 2008 19:31, USA wrote:

"The official language in the US is english because the majority of its inhabitants speak english. No one is forbidden to speak any other language they wish to or call it whatever they want. The same is true in this case."

Maybe you need to look up the meaning of "official language" mr. USA. It has nothing to do with what language people can and can not use in private. In this case, it is about which language(s) this Priboj municipality MUST support in an official capacity. Like street signs in both Cyrillic and Latin characters. Official forms like building permits or driver tests being available in both languages/dialects. The right to be able to speak in front of a judge in your own language and not by an interpreter. That is what "official language" means.
--

Oh Ahmet Isufi, what an original and insightful post, bravo! Please, what other oneliners do you have in the "Serbia is a BAD BAD country" handbook?

Ahmet Isufi.. the Albanian language is actually different than "Bosnian".

This goes from Patriotism to stupid and idiotic nationalism. Bosnians speak the language that Vuk Karadzic established. That was and always is Serbian. I would even accept "Serbo-Croatian" but Bosnian? There is a argument in a municipal parliament to add the same exact language to the municipality.

Fine.. if thats the case.. then I speak English, American, South African, Canadian, Serbian, Bosnian, Croatian and Montenegrin... see how stupid it becomes?

I am sure Natasa Kandic and company will be all over this one, spitting on Serbia and doing what her masters (the people who sign her paycheque in the US) tell her.
The Bosnian language does not even exist - Bosnians speak Serbian with a different accent, as do Montenegrins and Croats. It is just more fantasies created by the likes of Richard Holbrooke to divide people, and conquer. Otherwise I can go around bragging that I speak 5 different languages!

Isn't "Bosnian" just a dialect of Serbo-Croatian?

hm, this is how serbs respect minorities and they got the guts to ask albanians in kosova to respect serb minorities.
(Ahmet Isufi, 22 August 2008 14:46)

Ahmet my good man you have just managed to yet further undermine your very presence on this website (if that was possible) by demonstarting your profound lack of knowledge. Bosnian and Serbian are the same language, this is nothing more than a patriotism excersise by some fundamentalist muslims who want to create a divide between essentially the same people.
Nothing new here, just going back in time as usual

Differences in accent intonations and a few words here and there aside, it's the same damn language people.

Let's now use some common sense. The official language in the US is english because the majority of its inhabitants speak english. No one is forbidden to speak any other language they wish to or call it whatever they want. The same is true in this case. The majority of the population is Serbian, so the official language is Serbian. The remainder of the population can speak whatever they want, whenever they want, and call it whatever they want. See how common sense prevails when used properly! Thank you.

I speak English but also Californian. Im moving from California to Oregon and I think the transition to the Oregonian dialect wont be to hard.

I could never understand anything George Bush ever said----but one day Ill learn the Texan dialect and it will be ok.

"strategery"

Can some that are more familiar with the situation in Croatia confirm or deny that Serbian/Cyrillic is an official language in Croatia?

Just curious.

Hajduk

Jan,

I'll go back to my previous example. Since when are street signs written in spanish in the US? Or even better, since when do you have arabic in official documents in France or Germany where the muslim population is predominant in some areas? You don't, of course. Your example of the judge and understanding of language is completely flawed as well. Both people from Bosnia and people from Serbia understand each other perfectly well. This whole issue only comes down to a minority attempting to assert influence, nothing else. Once again, common sense prevails!

On 23 August 2008, 09:45, USA wrote:

"Since when are street signs written in spanish in the US? Or even better, since when do you have arabic in official documents in France or Germany (...)"

You make no sense at all mr. USA. Or perhaps that is EXACTLY what you do. Spanish is NOT an official language in the USA, and Arabic is NOT an official language in German and France - hence you DO NOT see Spanish/Arabic street signs in those countries.

You might want to look up these declarations made by the Danish and the German governments concerning the rights of the Danish and German speaking minorities in Northern and Southern Schleswig:

http://www.ecmi.de/7/2004/10/07/Bonn-Copenhagen-Declarations.php

Quote:

* 1. It shall be possible freely to profess one's loyalty to the German people and German culture and such a profession of loyalty shall not be contested or verified by an official authority.

* 2. Members of the German minority and their organizations may not be hindered from speaking and writing the language of their choice. The use of the German language in courts and administrative agencies shall be governed by the relevant legal provisions.

* 3. General schools and (also specialist) adult education centres as well as kindergartens may, in line with the relevant legal provisions, be set up by the German minority pursuant to the principle of the freedom of teaching in force in Denmark.

* 4. Since, under local Legislation, the committees of local representative bodies are set up on the basis of proportional representation, representatives of the German minority shall be involved in committee work in proportion to their numbers.

* 5. The Danish Government recommends that the German minority be duly taken into consideration within the framework of the rules in force on the use of radio.

* 6. In respect of assistance and other benefits from public funds on which a discretionary decision is taken, the members of the German minority shall not be treated differently forrn other citizens.

* 7. In respect of public notifications the newspapers of the German minority should be duly taken into consideration.

* 8. The special interest of the German minority in fostering contacts with Germany in the religious and cultural as well as in specialist fields shall be acknowledged.

End quote.

I am not an expert on the matter, but provision 7 is to me a clear example of what makes a language "official": That government announcements have to be publicized in both Danish and German.

Provision 5 is probably necessitated by the strict laws applied in Denmark about who can broadcast radio. Until recently, all radio broadcasting was done by the state-owned "Denmark Radio". Provision 5 is probably about how a certain percentage of the radio shows, news, etc, has to be in German. Again, making German an official language.

Jan,

That was exactly my point. Spanish and Arabic are not official languages, but you have minority peoples in the US and Germany that speak these languages. The comparison is the same to Bosnian minorities. They should not have an official language as minorities just like Mexicans and Arabs don't have official languages in the countries they live in. Any clearer?

On 23 August 2008, 19:41, USA wrote:

"That was exactly my point. Spanish and Arabic are not official languages, but you have minority peoples in the US and Germany that speak these languages."

And? There newer was an indigenous group of Spanish speaking people in the USA (well, California Texas and some of the southern states were under Spanish/Mexican rule for a long time, but I think it is up to debate how indigenous those people really where). And certainly no Arabic speaking minority in Germany. Their current presence there is due to voluntary immigration.

"The comparison is the same to Bosnian minorities."

No, it is not. The German speaking minority in Denmark, and the Danish speak minority in Germany is the result of arbitrary borders being drawn and redrawn around the people living there. Those minorities did not immigrate anywhere. They stayed put, while the countries moved around them.

I assume it is the same with many of the Bosnian, Serbian, Croatian and Albanian minorities in the Balkans. They got left behind as borders were drawn. They did not immigrate anywhere.