Wednesday, 20.08.2008.
10:33
The U.S. and Poland have signed a deal to locate part of the U.S.'s controversial missile defense system on Polish soil.
Izvor: BBC
pre 15 godina
Piotr
I am far from thinking that you don't understand what you are talking of. So I am not going taking part in your propagandist campaign. You escape the issues where your defeat becomes evident and deliver here silly western propaganda ducks created for low educated Europeans. Piotr next time you are going to talk on such a low level jumping from issue to another please find someone else.
pre 15 godina
ORTHODOX.RU, LEONIDAS, Veki
Let's face it gentlemen. Only the clueless would truly see those missiles as a threat to Russia.
With its thousands of nuclear warheads, bomber planes, and who knows how many short/mid-range missiles, Russia would have no issues overrunning that particular base and probably many others.
In case you weren't paying attention to recent news however, the last ballistic missile batch that Iran tested, had a long enough range to hit Cyprus and possibly even parts of Greece. It does not take a great technological leap to extend that range by another couple of thousand miles to encompass the entire Europe.
pre 15 godina
ORTHODOX.RU
"Piotr as we know "this beast" has killed about 900 000 of Soviet citizens including criminals during his last 17 years since 1936 till 1953 and goes in no comparison with Hitler ... "
Are you forgetting Holodomor? Anyway, didn't you mention circa 700 000 in your emails? At least that's what I remember. Either way, 900 000 people is what, nothing really important?
"As far as I remember you have found no Pole in the history which tributed to Poland half of what "this beast" did"
Every Poles in charge of Poland has done better things than Stalin! Except maybe Jaruzelski, and Gomulka, they are almost as hated as Stalin, but they never deported and/or murdered anybody, at least not even 0,01% as Stalin did.
"But we are not blind not to see that he accepted a devastated and ruined country and returned it as the most influetial in the world ! In 1953 the US could only dream of the political influennce we were enjoying."
Fair enough, but he did nothing for Poland. Before Gierek, Poland had a chronic shortage of everything from housing, to hospitals, to schools, to roads, to power supply... then Gierek came and actually pushed us ahead.
pre 15 godina
> Leonidas: Mirek & Joe
Pay some respect to the 25 Millions of Russian soldiers
which died fighting Fascism.
Leonidas, I feel sincerely sorry for the loss of life of millions of young Russians who, after your coalition with the fascist Germany (Molotov - Ribentrof pact - i.e. the 'dissolution' of Poland - things Peter is talking about to - unfortunately - deaf ears it seems...) ended as it had to end (how naive the Russians were then, you tell me about naivity:).
Also - what percentage of the deaths was caused by Stalin and his circles, not giving a proper armour to your armies? Think about that. I believe it is at least more than 50% of the total (i.e. at least 10 million of unnecessary death on the Russian side, all Stalin's fault...)
But the unfortunate thing is that no one can say today if we were going to be worse off under Germans than Russians. The totalitarian regime you kept in power lasted over 40 years (without Russian support/orders the communist puppets would not last a decade). Who can say under Germans a democratization would not come much earlier? And we all know that the fascist Germany was clearly defeated in 1945 and should you not arrive to Central Europe, we could have been helped by our western allies. It was Stalin's insistance to free Prague, US were less than 2 hours from Prague in the city of Pilsen (home of lager beer in western Bohemia), when you still were in Berlin - he had been already thinking 'strategically' about the post WWII order in Europe and what part of it could he still conquer. We were unlucky to end up on the wrong side of the Iron Curtain, cut off from our family of the Western nations, subjected to ruthless rule by our new Eastern masters.
You can't be that silly not to understand that at least in principle, the thing is, your country - Russia - is still too depressed, still too poor (as Joe has correctly mentioned - at least for most of your people that is, I don't care about Abramoviches etc. who stole day & night from the state, helped by Putin to keep him in power in return) to be able to even try to have a fair relationship with other countries, to try to foster a real friendship etc.
First you should start with your own repentance, asking others for forgiveness for what you have done. Then we can talk about how our relationship is going to be in future. Until then, no contact with Russia will be 'normal'.
You start your process today, on the 40th anniversary of the brutal attack of Russia on Czechoslovakia. Our people have not and will never forget!
All the Best to All Good People!
pre 15 godina
Hi Piotr !
"This beast slaughtered more of your own people than Hitler ..."
Piotr as we know "this beast" has killed about 900 000 of Soviet citizens including criminals during his last 17 years since 1936 till 1953 and goes in no comparison with Hitler ...
"Can you please give me one reason how that monstrosity was any better than Hitler?"
Sure both of them were bad but ours was much better and it's long list of the good deeds of his we can discuss later. As far as I remember you have found no Pole in the history which tributed to Poland half of what "this beast" did ... How does it happen Piotr that when we touched this item through the mail box your position was quite close to what you now mind ?
"Baltics and Ukrainians fear and distrust you so much"
Please don't mix those people ! I agree in the part of the Micro Balts who are afraid of the revenge for their constant provocations against us. But it has nothing to do with the Ukraine where we 73% now stand for closer relations with Russia and 9% back closer cooperation with the West.
"He destroyed your country as much as he did mine."
Piotr please stop this propaganda ! When asked what Pole did for Poland as much as Stalin did you found nothing to say and now you behave as Condy whose soul and skin are of the same color. Besides you cannot judje Stalin from the Soviet point of view. We have other accusations for Stalin than you say. But we are not blind not to see that he accepted a devastated and ruined country and returned it as the most influetial in the world ! In 1953 the US could only dream of the political influennce we were enjoying.
pre 15 godina
ORTHODOX.RU
"Dont forget that Russia has saved Poland from Nuernberg Tribunal and that Stalin did for poland more than any Pole in the history."
Sergei, you know that I give everyone chance to express their views and opinions and enjoy challenging them, but how can you say something so heartless as that? This beast slaughtered more of your own people than Hitler or any Pole did, and you have the arrogance to say something so insensitive as what you said?
Can you please give me one reason how that monstrosity was any better than Hitler? I respect your intelligence, but sometimes you really show such a typically Russian imperialist character that is the reason why Poles, the Baltics and Ukrainians fear and distrust you so much. The worst thing is that Stalin was not even Russian, and you claim to be against him, yet you say he was better for Poland than any Pole??? He destroyed your country as much as he did mine. I find it disgusting that Gori still has a statue of him in the center.
I don't get why B92 censors some things I say but allows something like this. Sad.
pre 15 godina
Jan
It is the US goverment that insists that the interceptors
have nothing to do with Russia but they are there to defend Europe from Iran and
Korea.Fancy that.Neither the Iranians nor the Koreans possess any intercontinental
missiles.I bet every geography student in Texas knows that Poland shares a border with Iran & Korea.
This system Jan doesn't stand a chance in hell of knocking down any enemy missile.If decoys are deployed together with the real missiles with the same radars and infra-red signatures they will render the missile system inoperable.Even ballons made out of foil could fool the US
missile system.
My own hunch is that the GMD
system waffle is used by the US for propaganda purposes only and it will never be deployed.Missile technology is very expensive and to pursue such policy seriously it will bankrupt the US.Furthermore such technology is stiil at its
embryonic stage.
Mirek & Joe
Pay some respect to the 25 Millions of Russian soldiers
which died fighting Fascism.
pre 15 godina
poland is making a grave mistake like i said several times already, or else this has no value at all, it's just to console the u.s. and their puppets after russia's spectacular victory in georgia.
why on earth would you poke the bear to please the donkey that cannot, will not come to your rescue?
poland has a government just like we do, that doesn't care about own national interests and mindlessly tries to boost somebody else's. its a pitiful sight.
but word to the wise, face the new reality. russia is back.
pre 15 godina
Jan Andersen
"I also don't understand why Russia would attack Poland ..."
Really ? Maybe you believe that the US missiles are aimed at Iran and Korea ?
"... inceptor missiles will just be a big waste of time and money..."
You understand nothing in how the nuclear paritet is formed ! Both Russian and American security are based on the guarantee that they can totally destroy each other any time they want to. So the only restriction is the back strike of the other side and those missils are a just a step towards the shift of balance in the favour of the USA. So Poland becomes a part in the potential conflict....
Joe
1. I am proud that both me and my country are ORTHODOX in both meanings of the word. This is our main superiority over you !
2. "...submission of neighboring small countries to your will"
The joke on you Joe ! Maybe you think that Granada was big enough when you marine corps invaded it ? For your better understanding the victims population was 8 643 men and women with no army at all ...
3. "You latest brutal aggression (well prepared for months) woke up most of the naive people in the West "
I sometimes ask myself why should I explain something to the insanes showing black as white and white as black ? But because you have no access to the true info please read at least the European papers.
4. Joe if you show me a medical sertificate of being adequate I can spend some more my time for your education. Otherwise I am afraid if I go on contacting you some day I'll become like you and it does not meet my interests. But if you really believe that you have won the Cold War why are you so impotent when we crushed down the saakascist favirite of yours ?
Mirek London
1. "Set them free?? You must be kidding man ..."
Pan must be joking ! We lost for the freedom of Poland twice as much as you Poles did during the last 2000 years ! We lost 7900 personnel to set free Yugoslavia and over 600 000 to set free Poland while about 500 000 Poles served within Wermacht and Armia Kraiova killed about 250 000 Soviet citizens. Dont forget that Russia has saved Poland from Nuernberg Tribunal and that Stalin did for poland more than any Pole in the history. Including German lands in Poland was his biggest mistake.
2. You may thank the B92 to delete half of my post ! Otherwise you would not fall asleep this night ! But don't be so naive think that you wiil be helping the US to threaten the cities where our families live and we shall responce only the way MEDVEDEV said ...
pre 15 godina
On 20 August 2008, 16:56, Leonidas wrote:
"Furthermore,the Polish based
systems will have less time
to knock down the approaching
missiles given the fact that the distance between Poland and Russia is shorter than the distance between US and Russia."
Very true. The sad part is that you don't seem to understand (or believe) that these missiles are intended to blast Iranian missiles out of the sky (today it is the Iranians - who knows which country it will be tomorrow?).
With the radar sites in Czech republic providing the early warning, the missiles will be ready and soaring up in the sky as the missiles passes high overhead. So don't worry Leonidas, those missile bases are perfectly situated.
The other part of the deal between USA and Poland is about a battery of the famous Patriot missiles used during the Iraq/Kuwait war to protect Israel against Scud missiles. They are fast, agile missiles that only need a few minutes to lock onto their targets. The Patrioits are not intended to , and they can not, intercept Russian ICBM's (intercontinental ballistic missiles) carrying nuclear warheads. Those birds fly way too high for the Patriots. But smaller missiles, intended for mainland Europe, that is more in their league, and for that, I promise you they are plenty fast enough.
--
pre 15 godina
Mirek,
You said it so well, so truthfully! If all Central Europeans - once oppressed by Russia for 40 years - would read your comment close to 110 million would applaud you. And tomorrow millions and millions of people in the free democratic world will be with you in deep sympathy. Tomorrow on that tragic anniversary I will be a Czech and many of my friends and relatives also.
Yes one day Russia will be a "has been" again once the oil money dries up. How sad that even today despite the huge oil income half of the Russian population lives in deep poverty and under very primitive living and health conditions while the main preocupation of their dirigents is how to threaten and blackmail their neighbors. Yes how sad that their main contribution to the mankind is to be feared.
But the West will win again, no doubt about it. It is just sad that the coming confrontation was so unnecessary for both the West and the Russian people.
pre 15 godina
> Orthodox: ...once has been totally destroyed before we were able to set them free .
Set them free?? You must be kidding man (though I believe that your Putin media tell you that anyway...:)
You have enslaved & oppressed Polish and other Central Europeans for over 40 years (more in case of the Baltics). How do you even dare to come up with such a statement? You pushed the Germans out, just to take advantage of the developed CE countries, that you then abused day & night. Many young Russians died just to push Stalin's ideology in the heart of Europe. Shame on you (your country for having done that and never apologizing for it)!
> While Russia several times warned the Poles that the missiles if deployed will be first targets for our attack I can see no progress in Polish mentallity.
How good from you, you 'warned' (threatened in reality) the Poles...not to offend you with the defensive system. Don't worry we will not give in to your threats in the face of just another Russian aggression.
Tomorrow it's going to be 40 years since you brutally attacked my country - anyone who has at least any sensitivity & understanding for human suffering needs to see just 1 photo from Prague in August 1968 to realize why we can never ever forgive you and never ever trust you, even just a bit.
I sincerely hope we (NATO/EU/West)will never have to go into a conflict with Russia, but that time may not be that far off as our civilizations will probably clash in future over the values they are built on. But don't worry, our democracy will prevail!
Hope when the oil & gas dries up, Russia will once again be a 'has been' that no one needs to fear and people will be able to live in peace...(as it can offer nothing else to the mankind, but to be feared, what an achievement!:)
All the Best to All Good People!
Cheers!
pre 15 godina
Can clearly remember when the old Berlin Wall came down - the euphoria at the Cold War suddenly being over.
First this administration scraps START, then it throws away the UN rulebook & now it seems intent on building a new wall & re-igniting the Cold War.
One wonders just how much more damage this administration can do.
pre 15 godina
Orthodox,
True to your name you and your country remain very much "orthodox" in perpetuating the believe in rough military force, the old-fashioned submission of neighboring small countries to your will and and total disregard of such important "little details" as the right of those countries to their sovereignty and freedom. You latest brutal aggression (well prepared for months) woke up most of the naive people in the West and put in motion important defensive steps. Those steps, like the just signed defense deal in Warsaw would have been harder without your brazen move in Georgia because some people still had illusions about your peaceful intention. But what you did and still do in that small country - disproportionate actions, destruction of economic infrastructure, ongoing looting - will be remembered as the triggering reason of the new Cold War.
The first one was won against a much more powerful ennemy and took some 40 years. This one will be won in 5-15 years depending on the evaluation of the oil price. If for many reasons that price would drop more than expected than your second collapse could arrive much sooner.
pre 15 godina
"No-one with good intentions to the West should be afraid of the missiles"
Now you tell me if this guy is merely dumb,pretending to be so or just completely indoctrinated out of his head by the "worst president of the USA ever" and his "worst-state-secretary-of all-times" (titled as such in their own country)
I think it is truly redicilous
how Poland and Chzeckia behave themselves and not only in regard that this is opposed to the will of most of their people. THEIR ACTIONS ARE IRRESPONSIBLE.
What do they think they are doing with those missiles on their ground? Protecting USA from IRAN and Russia?
Iran and Russia are being hostile to the West, and Poland and Chzeckia will defend the world against their evil?
pre 15 godina
This is again another kind of strong-arm tactics by the US on Poland,the Czech Republic and UK to become US
grountbait.
Although research and develpment on the missile system has been going on since 1946 ,and after billions of dollars spent its
success can be measured as a big nothing.It's true in recent trials the system managed to intercept 2 out of 5 missiles fired but these
tests resembled nothing of the real nuclear strike.
Furthermore,the Polish based
systems will have less time
to knock down the approaching
missiles given the fact that the distance between Poland and Russia is shorter than the distance between US and Russia.
The truth of the matter is that Poland and the other European countries that will station these systems are the victims of US corporare greed.US politics is rotten from head to toe.Under Bush the corruption has taken African proportions.Corporate
America is the receipient of the Federal goverment's vast military programmes.In return they make millions of dollars in political donations.
US foreign policy can be understood only in terms of appeassing lobbyists,accommodating the religious right and providing
vast sums of money to corporate America in research
and development of star war
programmes which at the present rate of progrees are at least 50 years away.
pre 15 godina
"While Russia several times warned the Poles that the missiles if deployed will be first targets for our attack (...)"
Of course a military missile base will be among the targets in a war. Better that, than a normal city full of ordinary people. Why you felt it necessary to say that I don't understand.
I also don't understand why Russia would attack Poland, or any other European country, or even the USA. Do you foresee a situation where NATO did something that warranted a full-blown war, and not just angry diplomatic letters? If not, what is the problem? If Russia or Iran don't send ICBM's or heavy bombers towards western Europe, then the inceptor missiles will just be a big waste of time and money. Why are Russia worried about NATO wasting its tax-payers money?
pre 15 godina
Who's really 'won' here?
So Poland doesn't get visa restrictions lifted? I thought that this was something that consecutive polish governments were very adamant on pushing the US for.
It kind of makes sense as now that Poland has made itself a target, no-easy visas = no Poles coming to America and claiming asylum.
pre 15 godina
The Polish capital has got a very symbolic name which must has teached them to be more careful. This city really SAW WARS and once has been totally destroyed before we were able to set them free . While Russia several times warned the Poles that the missiles if deployed will be first targets for our attack I can see no progress in Polish mentallity.
Their history has teached them nothing if they believe that Russian attack will be aimed only at the Saxon lands we have presented them after WW2. It may be another fatal Polish mistake they are used to do.
pre 15 godina
This is again another kind of strong-arm tactics by the US on Poland,the Czech Republic and UK to become US
grountbait.
Although research and develpment on the missile system has been going on since 1946 ,and after billions of dollars spent its
success can be measured as a big nothing.It's true in recent trials the system managed to intercept 2 out of 5 missiles fired but these
tests resembled nothing of the real nuclear strike.
Furthermore,the Polish based
systems will have less time
to knock down the approaching
missiles given the fact that the distance between Poland and Russia is shorter than the distance between US and Russia.
The truth of the matter is that Poland and the other European countries that will station these systems are the victims of US corporare greed.US politics is rotten from head to toe.Under Bush the corruption has taken African proportions.Corporate
America is the receipient of the Federal goverment's vast military programmes.In return they make millions of dollars in political donations.
US foreign policy can be understood only in terms of appeassing lobbyists,accommodating the religious right and providing
vast sums of money to corporate America in research
and development of star war
programmes which at the present rate of progrees are at least 50 years away.
pre 15 godina
The Polish capital has got a very symbolic name which must has teached them to be more careful. This city really SAW WARS and once has been totally destroyed before we were able to set them free . While Russia several times warned the Poles that the missiles if deployed will be first targets for our attack I can see no progress in Polish mentallity.
Their history has teached them nothing if they believe that Russian attack will be aimed only at the Saxon lands we have presented them after WW2. It may be another fatal Polish mistake they are used to do.
pre 15 godina
Jan
It is the US goverment that insists that the interceptors
have nothing to do with Russia but they are there to defend Europe from Iran and
Korea.Fancy that.Neither the Iranians nor the Koreans possess any intercontinental
missiles.I bet every geography student in Texas knows that Poland shares a border with Iran & Korea.
This system Jan doesn't stand a chance in hell of knocking down any enemy missile.If decoys are deployed together with the real missiles with the same radars and infra-red signatures they will render the missile system inoperable.Even ballons made out of foil could fool the US
missile system.
My own hunch is that the GMD
system waffle is used by the US for propaganda purposes only and it will never be deployed.Missile technology is very expensive and to pursue such policy seriously it will bankrupt the US.Furthermore such technology is stiil at its
embryonic stage.
Mirek & Joe
Pay some respect to the 25 Millions of Russian soldiers
which died fighting Fascism.
pre 15 godina
Orthodox,
True to your name you and your country remain very much "orthodox" in perpetuating the believe in rough military force, the old-fashioned submission of neighboring small countries to your will and and total disregard of such important "little details" as the right of those countries to their sovereignty and freedom. You latest brutal aggression (well prepared for months) woke up most of the naive people in the West and put in motion important defensive steps. Those steps, like the just signed defense deal in Warsaw would have been harder without your brazen move in Georgia because some people still had illusions about your peaceful intention. But what you did and still do in that small country - disproportionate actions, destruction of economic infrastructure, ongoing looting - will be remembered as the triggering reason of the new Cold War.
The first one was won against a much more powerful ennemy and took some 40 years. This one will be won in 5-15 years depending on the evaluation of the oil price. If for many reasons that price would drop more than expected than your second collapse could arrive much sooner.
pre 15 godina
> Orthodox: ...once has been totally destroyed before we were able to set them free .
Set them free?? You must be kidding man (though I believe that your Putin media tell you that anyway...:)
You have enslaved & oppressed Polish and other Central Europeans for over 40 years (more in case of the Baltics). How do you even dare to come up with such a statement? You pushed the Germans out, just to take advantage of the developed CE countries, that you then abused day & night. Many young Russians died just to push Stalin's ideology in the heart of Europe. Shame on you (your country for having done that and never apologizing for it)!
> While Russia several times warned the Poles that the missiles if deployed will be first targets for our attack I can see no progress in Polish mentallity.
How good from you, you 'warned' (threatened in reality) the Poles...not to offend you with the defensive system. Don't worry we will not give in to your threats in the face of just another Russian aggression.
Tomorrow it's going to be 40 years since you brutally attacked my country - anyone who has at least any sensitivity & understanding for human suffering needs to see just 1 photo from Prague in August 1968 to realize why we can never ever forgive you and never ever trust you, even just a bit.
I sincerely hope we (NATO/EU/West)will never have to go into a conflict with Russia, but that time may not be that far off as our civilizations will probably clash in future over the values they are built on. But don't worry, our democracy will prevail!
Hope when the oil & gas dries up, Russia will once again be a 'has been' that no one needs to fear and people will be able to live in peace...(as it can offer nothing else to the mankind, but to be feared, what an achievement!:)
All the Best to All Good People!
Cheers!
pre 15 godina
Jan Andersen
"I also don't understand why Russia would attack Poland ..."
Really ? Maybe you believe that the US missiles are aimed at Iran and Korea ?
"... inceptor missiles will just be a big waste of time and money..."
You understand nothing in how the nuclear paritet is formed ! Both Russian and American security are based on the guarantee that they can totally destroy each other any time they want to. So the only restriction is the back strike of the other side and those missils are a just a step towards the shift of balance in the favour of the USA. So Poland becomes a part in the potential conflict....
Joe
1. I am proud that both me and my country are ORTHODOX in both meanings of the word. This is our main superiority over you !
2. "...submission of neighboring small countries to your will"
The joke on you Joe ! Maybe you think that Granada was big enough when you marine corps invaded it ? For your better understanding the victims population was 8 643 men and women with no army at all ...
3. "You latest brutal aggression (well prepared for months) woke up most of the naive people in the West "
I sometimes ask myself why should I explain something to the insanes showing black as white and white as black ? But because you have no access to the true info please read at least the European papers.
4. Joe if you show me a medical sertificate of being adequate I can spend some more my time for your education. Otherwise I am afraid if I go on contacting you some day I'll become like you and it does not meet my interests. But if you really believe that you have won the Cold War why are you so impotent when we crushed down the saakascist favirite of yours ?
Mirek London
1. "Set them free?? You must be kidding man ..."
Pan must be joking ! We lost for the freedom of Poland twice as much as you Poles did during the last 2000 years ! We lost 7900 personnel to set free Yugoslavia and over 600 000 to set free Poland while about 500 000 Poles served within Wermacht and Armia Kraiova killed about 250 000 Soviet citizens. Dont forget that Russia has saved Poland from Nuernberg Tribunal and that Stalin did for poland more than any Pole in the history. Including German lands in Poland was his biggest mistake.
2. You may thank the B92 to delete half of my post ! Otherwise you would not fall asleep this night ! But don't be so naive think that you wiil be helping the US to threaten the cities where our families live and we shall responce only the way MEDVEDEV said ...
pre 15 godina
poland is making a grave mistake like i said several times already, or else this has no value at all, it's just to console the u.s. and their puppets after russia's spectacular victory in georgia.
why on earth would you poke the bear to please the donkey that cannot, will not come to your rescue?
poland has a government just like we do, that doesn't care about own national interests and mindlessly tries to boost somebody else's. its a pitiful sight.
but word to the wise, face the new reality. russia is back.
pre 15 godina
Can clearly remember when the old Berlin Wall came down - the euphoria at the Cold War suddenly being over.
First this administration scraps START, then it throws away the UN rulebook & now it seems intent on building a new wall & re-igniting the Cold War.
One wonders just how much more damage this administration can do.
pre 15 godina
Mirek,
You said it so well, so truthfully! If all Central Europeans - once oppressed by Russia for 40 years - would read your comment close to 110 million would applaud you. And tomorrow millions and millions of people in the free democratic world will be with you in deep sympathy. Tomorrow on that tragic anniversary I will be a Czech and many of my friends and relatives also.
Yes one day Russia will be a "has been" again once the oil money dries up. How sad that even today despite the huge oil income half of the Russian population lives in deep poverty and under very primitive living and health conditions while the main preocupation of their dirigents is how to threaten and blackmail their neighbors. Yes how sad that their main contribution to the mankind is to be feared.
But the West will win again, no doubt about it. It is just sad that the coming confrontation was so unnecessary for both the West and the Russian people.
pre 15 godina
On 20 August 2008, 16:56, Leonidas wrote:
"Furthermore,the Polish based
systems will have less time
to knock down the approaching
missiles given the fact that the distance between Poland and Russia is shorter than the distance between US and Russia."
Very true. The sad part is that you don't seem to understand (or believe) that these missiles are intended to blast Iranian missiles out of the sky (today it is the Iranians - who knows which country it will be tomorrow?).
With the radar sites in Czech republic providing the early warning, the missiles will be ready and soaring up in the sky as the missiles passes high overhead. So don't worry Leonidas, those missile bases are perfectly situated.
The other part of the deal between USA and Poland is about a battery of the famous Patriot missiles used during the Iraq/Kuwait war to protect Israel against Scud missiles. They are fast, agile missiles that only need a few minutes to lock onto their targets. The Patrioits are not intended to , and they can not, intercept Russian ICBM's (intercontinental ballistic missiles) carrying nuclear warheads. Those birds fly way too high for the Patriots. But smaller missiles, intended for mainland Europe, that is more in their league, and for that, I promise you they are plenty fast enough.
--
pre 15 godina
"While Russia several times warned the Poles that the missiles if deployed will be first targets for our attack (...)"
Of course a military missile base will be among the targets in a war. Better that, than a normal city full of ordinary people. Why you felt it necessary to say that I don't understand.
I also don't understand why Russia would attack Poland, or any other European country, or even the USA. Do you foresee a situation where NATO did something that warranted a full-blown war, and not just angry diplomatic letters? If not, what is the problem? If Russia or Iran don't send ICBM's or heavy bombers towards western Europe, then the inceptor missiles will just be a big waste of time and money. Why are Russia worried about NATO wasting its tax-payers money?
pre 15 godina
ORTHODOX.RU
"Dont forget that Russia has saved Poland from Nuernberg Tribunal and that Stalin did for poland more than any Pole in the history."
Sergei, you know that I give everyone chance to express their views and opinions and enjoy challenging them, but how can you say something so heartless as that? This beast slaughtered more of your own people than Hitler or any Pole did, and you have the arrogance to say something so insensitive as what you said?
Can you please give me one reason how that monstrosity was any better than Hitler? I respect your intelligence, but sometimes you really show such a typically Russian imperialist character that is the reason why Poles, the Baltics and Ukrainians fear and distrust you so much. The worst thing is that Stalin was not even Russian, and you claim to be against him, yet you say he was better for Poland than any Pole??? He destroyed your country as much as he did mine. I find it disgusting that Gori still has a statue of him in the center.
I don't get why B92 censors some things I say but allows something like this. Sad.
pre 15 godina
Who's really 'won' here?
So Poland doesn't get visa restrictions lifted? I thought that this was something that consecutive polish governments were very adamant on pushing the US for.
It kind of makes sense as now that Poland has made itself a target, no-easy visas = no Poles coming to America and claiming asylum.
pre 15 godina
"No-one with good intentions to the West should be afraid of the missiles"
Now you tell me if this guy is merely dumb,pretending to be so or just completely indoctrinated out of his head by the "worst president of the USA ever" and his "worst-state-secretary-of all-times" (titled as such in their own country)
I think it is truly redicilous
how Poland and Chzeckia behave themselves and not only in regard that this is opposed to the will of most of their people. THEIR ACTIONS ARE IRRESPONSIBLE.
What do they think they are doing with those missiles on their ground? Protecting USA from IRAN and Russia?
Iran and Russia are being hostile to the West, and Poland and Chzeckia will defend the world against their evil?
pre 15 godina
Hi Piotr !
"This beast slaughtered more of your own people than Hitler ..."
Piotr as we know "this beast" has killed about 900 000 of Soviet citizens including criminals during his last 17 years since 1936 till 1953 and goes in no comparison with Hitler ...
"Can you please give me one reason how that monstrosity was any better than Hitler?"
Sure both of them were bad but ours was much better and it's long list of the good deeds of his we can discuss later. As far as I remember you have found no Pole in the history which tributed to Poland half of what "this beast" did ... How does it happen Piotr that when we touched this item through the mail box your position was quite close to what you now mind ?
"Baltics and Ukrainians fear and distrust you so much"
Please don't mix those people ! I agree in the part of the Micro Balts who are afraid of the revenge for their constant provocations against us. But it has nothing to do with the Ukraine where we 73% now stand for closer relations with Russia and 9% back closer cooperation with the West.
"He destroyed your country as much as he did mine."
Piotr please stop this propaganda ! When asked what Pole did for Poland as much as Stalin did you found nothing to say and now you behave as Condy whose soul and skin are of the same color. Besides you cannot judje Stalin from the Soviet point of view. We have other accusations for Stalin than you say. But we are not blind not to see that he accepted a devastated and ruined country and returned it as the most influetial in the world ! In 1953 the US could only dream of the political influennce we were enjoying.
pre 15 godina
ORTHODOX.RU, LEONIDAS, Veki
Let's face it gentlemen. Only the clueless would truly see those missiles as a threat to Russia.
With its thousands of nuclear warheads, bomber planes, and who knows how many short/mid-range missiles, Russia would have no issues overrunning that particular base and probably many others.
In case you weren't paying attention to recent news however, the last ballistic missile batch that Iran tested, had a long enough range to hit Cyprus and possibly even parts of Greece. It does not take a great technological leap to extend that range by another couple of thousand miles to encompass the entire Europe.
pre 15 godina
> Leonidas: Mirek & Joe
Pay some respect to the 25 Millions of Russian soldiers
which died fighting Fascism.
Leonidas, I feel sincerely sorry for the loss of life of millions of young Russians who, after your coalition with the fascist Germany (Molotov - Ribentrof pact - i.e. the 'dissolution' of Poland - things Peter is talking about to - unfortunately - deaf ears it seems...) ended as it had to end (how naive the Russians were then, you tell me about naivity:).
Also - what percentage of the deaths was caused by Stalin and his circles, not giving a proper armour to your armies? Think about that. I believe it is at least more than 50% of the total (i.e. at least 10 million of unnecessary death on the Russian side, all Stalin's fault...)
But the unfortunate thing is that no one can say today if we were going to be worse off under Germans than Russians. The totalitarian regime you kept in power lasted over 40 years (without Russian support/orders the communist puppets would not last a decade). Who can say under Germans a democratization would not come much earlier? And we all know that the fascist Germany was clearly defeated in 1945 and should you not arrive to Central Europe, we could have been helped by our western allies. It was Stalin's insistance to free Prague, US were less than 2 hours from Prague in the city of Pilsen (home of lager beer in western Bohemia), when you still were in Berlin - he had been already thinking 'strategically' about the post WWII order in Europe and what part of it could he still conquer. We were unlucky to end up on the wrong side of the Iron Curtain, cut off from our family of the Western nations, subjected to ruthless rule by our new Eastern masters.
You can't be that silly not to understand that at least in principle, the thing is, your country - Russia - is still too depressed, still too poor (as Joe has correctly mentioned - at least for most of your people that is, I don't care about Abramoviches etc. who stole day & night from the state, helped by Putin to keep him in power in return) to be able to even try to have a fair relationship with other countries, to try to foster a real friendship etc.
First you should start with your own repentance, asking others for forgiveness for what you have done. Then we can talk about how our relationship is going to be in future. Until then, no contact with Russia will be 'normal'.
You start your process today, on the 40th anniversary of the brutal attack of Russia on Czechoslovakia. Our people have not and will never forget!
All the Best to All Good People!
pre 15 godina
Piotr
I am far from thinking that you don't understand what you are talking of. So I am not going taking part in your propagandist campaign. You escape the issues where your defeat becomes evident and deliver here silly western propaganda ducks created for low educated Europeans. Piotr next time you are going to talk on such a low level jumping from issue to another please find someone else.
pre 15 godina
ORTHODOX.RU
"Piotr as we know "this beast" has killed about 900 000 of Soviet citizens including criminals during his last 17 years since 1936 till 1953 and goes in no comparison with Hitler ... "
Are you forgetting Holodomor? Anyway, didn't you mention circa 700 000 in your emails? At least that's what I remember. Either way, 900 000 people is what, nothing really important?
"As far as I remember you have found no Pole in the history which tributed to Poland half of what "this beast" did"
Every Poles in charge of Poland has done better things than Stalin! Except maybe Jaruzelski, and Gomulka, they are almost as hated as Stalin, but they never deported and/or murdered anybody, at least not even 0,01% as Stalin did.
"But we are not blind not to see that he accepted a devastated and ruined country and returned it as the most influetial in the world ! In 1953 the US could only dream of the political influennce we were enjoying."
Fair enough, but he did nothing for Poland. Before Gierek, Poland had a chronic shortage of everything from housing, to hospitals, to schools, to roads, to power supply... then Gierek came and actually pushed us ahead.
pre 15 godina
poland is making a grave mistake like i said several times already, or else this has no value at all, it's just to console the u.s. and their puppets after russia's spectacular victory in georgia.
why on earth would you poke the bear to please the donkey that cannot, will not come to your rescue?
poland has a government just like we do, that doesn't care about own national interests and mindlessly tries to boost somebody else's. its a pitiful sight.
but word to the wise, face the new reality. russia is back.
pre 15 godina
> Orthodox: ...once has been totally destroyed before we were able to set them free .
Set them free?? You must be kidding man (though I believe that your Putin media tell you that anyway...:)
You have enslaved & oppressed Polish and other Central Europeans for over 40 years (more in case of the Baltics). How do you even dare to come up with such a statement? You pushed the Germans out, just to take advantage of the developed CE countries, that you then abused day & night. Many young Russians died just to push Stalin's ideology in the heart of Europe. Shame on you (your country for having done that and never apologizing for it)!
> While Russia several times warned the Poles that the missiles if deployed will be first targets for our attack I can see no progress in Polish mentallity.
How good from you, you 'warned' (threatened in reality) the Poles...not to offend you with the defensive system. Don't worry we will not give in to your threats in the face of just another Russian aggression.
Tomorrow it's going to be 40 years since you brutally attacked my country - anyone who has at least any sensitivity & understanding for human suffering needs to see just 1 photo from Prague in August 1968 to realize why we can never ever forgive you and never ever trust you, even just a bit.
I sincerely hope we (NATO/EU/West)will never have to go into a conflict with Russia, but that time may not be that far off as our civilizations will probably clash in future over the values they are built on. But don't worry, our democracy will prevail!
Hope when the oil & gas dries up, Russia will once again be a 'has been' that no one needs to fear and people will be able to live in peace...(as it can offer nothing else to the mankind, but to be feared, what an achievement!:)
All the Best to All Good People!
Cheers!
pre 15 godina
Mirek,
You said it so well, so truthfully! If all Central Europeans - once oppressed by Russia for 40 years - would read your comment close to 110 million would applaud you. And tomorrow millions and millions of people in the free democratic world will be with you in deep sympathy. Tomorrow on that tragic anniversary I will be a Czech and many of my friends and relatives also.
Yes one day Russia will be a "has been" again once the oil money dries up. How sad that even today despite the huge oil income half of the Russian population lives in deep poverty and under very primitive living and health conditions while the main preocupation of their dirigents is how to threaten and blackmail their neighbors. Yes how sad that their main contribution to the mankind is to be feared.
But the West will win again, no doubt about it. It is just sad that the coming confrontation was so unnecessary for both the West and the Russian people.
pre 15 godina
On 20 August 2008, 16:56, Leonidas wrote:
"Furthermore,the Polish based
systems will have less time
to knock down the approaching
missiles given the fact that the distance between Poland and Russia is shorter than the distance between US and Russia."
Very true. The sad part is that you don't seem to understand (or believe) that these missiles are intended to blast Iranian missiles out of the sky (today it is the Iranians - who knows which country it will be tomorrow?).
With the radar sites in Czech republic providing the early warning, the missiles will be ready and soaring up in the sky as the missiles passes high overhead. So don't worry Leonidas, those missile bases are perfectly situated.
The other part of the deal between USA and Poland is about a battery of the famous Patriot missiles used during the Iraq/Kuwait war to protect Israel against Scud missiles. They are fast, agile missiles that only need a few minutes to lock onto their targets. The Patrioits are not intended to , and they can not, intercept Russian ICBM's (intercontinental ballistic missiles) carrying nuclear warheads. Those birds fly way too high for the Patriots. But smaller missiles, intended for mainland Europe, that is more in their league, and for that, I promise you they are plenty fast enough.
--
pre 15 godina
Jan Andersen
"I also don't understand why Russia would attack Poland ..."
Really ? Maybe you believe that the US missiles are aimed at Iran and Korea ?
"... inceptor missiles will just be a big waste of time and money..."
You understand nothing in how the nuclear paritet is formed ! Both Russian and American security are based on the guarantee that they can totally destroy each other any time they want to. So the only restriction is the back strike of the other side and those missils are a just a step towards the shift of balance in the favour of the USA. So Poland becomes a part in the potential conflict....
Joe
1. I am proud that both me and my country are ORTHODOX in both meanings of the word. This is our main superiority over you !
2. "...submission of neighboring small countries to your will"
The joke on you Joe ! Maybe you think that Granada was big enough when you marine corps invaded it ? For your better understanding the victims population was 8 643 men and women with no army at all ...
3. "You latest brutal aggression (well prepared for months) woke up most of the naive people in the West "
I sometimes ask myself why should I explain something to the insanes showing black as white and white as black ? But because you have no access to the true info please read at least the European papers.
4. Joe if you show me a medical sertificate of being adequate I can spend some more my time for your education. Otherwise I am afraid if I go on contacting you some day I'll become like you and it does not meet my interests. But if you really believe that you have won the Cold War why are you so impotent when we crushed down the saakascist favirite of yours ?
Mirek London
1. "Set them free?? You must be kidding man ..."
Pan must be joking ! We lost for the freedom of Poland twice as much as you Poles did during the last 2000 years ! We lost 7900 personnel to set free Yugoslavia and over 600 000 to set free Poland while about 500 000 Poles served within Wermacht and Armia Kraiova killed about 250 000 Soviet citizens. Dont forget that Russia has saved Poland from Nuernberg Tribunal and that Stalin did for poland more than any Pole in the history. Including German lands in Poland was his biggest mistake.
2. You may thank the B92 to delete half of my post ! Otherwise you would not fall asleep this night ! But don't be so naive think that you wiil be helping the US to threaten the cities where our families live and we shall responce only the way MEDVEDEV said ...
pre 15 godina
ORTHODOX.RU
"Dont forget that Russia has saved Poland from Nuernberg Tribunal and that Stalin did for poland more than any Pole in the history."
Sergei, you know that I give everyone chance to express their views and opinions and enjoy challenging them, but how can you say something so heartless as that? This beast slaughtered more of your own people than Hitler or any Pole did, and you have the arrogance to say something so insensitive as what you said?
Can you please give me one reason how that monstrosity was any better than Hitler? I respect your intelligence, but sometimes you really show such a typically Russian imperialist character that is the reason why Poles, the Baltics and Ukrainians fear and distrust you so much. The worst thing is that Stalin was not even Russian, and you claim to be against him, yet you say he was better for Poland than any Pole??? He destroyed your country as much as he did mine. I find it disgusting that Gori still has a statue of him in the center.
I don't get why B92 censors some things I say but allows something like this. Sad.
pre 15 godina
The Polish capital has got a very symbolic name which must has teached them to be more careful. This city really SAW WARS and once has been totally destroyed before we were able to set them free . While Russia several times warned the Poles that the missiles if deployed will be first targets for our attack I can see no progress in Polish mentallity.
Their history has teached them nothing if they believe that Russian attack will be aimed only at the Saxon lands we have presented them after WW2. It may be another fatal Polish mistake they are used to do.
pre 15 godina
Who's really 'won' here?
So Poland doesn't get visa restrictions lifted? I thought that this was something that consecutive polish governments were very adamant on pushing the US for.
It kind of makes sense as now that Poland has made itself a target, no-easy visas = no Poles coming to America and claiming asylum.
pre 15 godina
"While Russia several times warned the Poles that the missiles if deployed will be first targets for our attack (...)"
Of course a military missile base will be among the targets in a war. Better that, than a normal city full of ordinary people. Why you felt it necessary to say that I don't understand.
I also don't understand why Russia would attack Poland, or any other European country, or even the USA. Do you foresee a situation where NATO did something that warranted a full-blown war, and not just angry diplomatic letters? If not, what is the problem? If Russia or Iran don't send ICBM's or heavy bombers towards western Europe, then the inceptor missiles will just be a big waste of time and money. Why are Russia worried about NATO wasting its tax-payers money?
pre 15 godina
Orthodox,
True to your name you and your country remain very much "orthodox" in perpetuating the believe in rough military force, the old-fashioned submission of neighboring small countries to your will and and total disregard of such important "little details" as the right of those countries to their sovereignty and freedom. You latest brutal aggression (well prepared for months) woke up most of the naive people in the West and put in motion important defensive steps. Those steps, like the just signed defense deal in Warsaw would have been harder without your brazen move in Georgia because some people still had illusions about your peaceful intention. But what you did and still do in that small country - disproportionate actions, destruction of economic infrastructure, ongoing looting - will be remembered as the triggering reason of the new Cold War.
The first one was won against a much more powerful ennemy and took some 40 years. This one will be won in 5-15 years depending on the evaluation of the oil price. If for many reasons that price would drop more than expected than your second collapse could arrive much sooner.
pre 15 godina
Can clearly remember when the old Berlin Wall came down - the euphoria at the Cold War suddenly being over.
First this administration scraps START, then it throws away the UN rulebook & now it seems intent on building a new wall & re-igniting the Cold War.
One wonders just how much more damage this administration can do.
pre 15 godina
"No-one with good intentions to the West should be afraid of the missiles"
Now you tell me if this guy is merely dumb,pretending to be so or just completely indoctrinated out of his head by the "worst president of the USA ever" and his "worst-state-secretary-of all-times" (titled as such in their own country)
I think it is truly redicilous
how Poland and Chzeckia behave themselves and not only in regard that this is opposed to the will of most of their people. THEIR ACTIONS ARE IRRESPONSIBLE.
What do they think they are doing with those missiles on their ground? Protecting USA from IRAN and Russia?
Iran and Russia are being hostile to the West, and Poland and Chzeckia will defend the world against their evil?
pre 15 godina
This is again another kind of strong-arm tactics by the US on Poland,the Czech Republic and UK to become US
grountbait.
Although research and develpment on the missile system has been going on since 1946 ,and after billions of dollars spent its
success can be measured as a big nothing.It's true in recent trials the system managed to intercept 2 out of 5 missiles fired but these
tests resembled nothing of the real nuclear strike.
Furthermore,the Polish based
systems will have less time
to knock down the approaching
missiles given the fact that the distance between Poland and Russia is shorter than the distance between US and Russia.
The truth of the matter is that Poland and the other European countries that will station these systems are the victims of US corporare greed.US politics is rotten from head to toe.Under Bush the corruption has taken African proportions.Corporate
America is the receipient of the Federal goverment's vast military programmes.In return they make millions of dollars in political donations.
US foreign policy can be understood only in terms of appeassing lobbyists,accommodating the religious right and providing
vast sums of money to corporate America in research
and development of star war
programmes which at the present rate of progrees are at least 50 years away.
pre 15 godina
Jan
It is the US goverment that insists that the interceptors
have nothing to do with Russia but they are there to defend Europe from Iran and
Korea.Fancy that.Neither the Iranians nor the Koreans possess any intercontinental
missiles.I bet every geography student in Texas knows that Poland shares a border with Iran & Korea.
This system Jan doesn't stand a chance in hell of knocking down any enemy missile.If decoys are deployed together with the real missiles with the same radars and infra-red signatures they will render the missile system inoperable.Even ballons made out of foil could fool the US
missile system.
My own hunch is that the GMD
system waffle is used by the US for propaganda purposes only and it will never be deployed.Missile technology is very expensive and to pursue such policy seriously it will bankrupt the US.Furthermore such technology is stiil at its
embryonic stage.
Mirek & Joe
Pay some respect to the 25 Millions of Russian soldiers
which died fighting Fascism.
pre 15 godina
Hi Piotr !
"This beast slaughtered more of your own people than Hitler ..."
Piotr as we know "this beast" has killed about 900 000 of Soviet citizens including criminals during his last 17 years since 1936 till 1953 and goes in no comparison with Hitler ...
"Can you please give me one reason how that monstrosity was any better than Hitler?"
Sure both of them were bad but ours was much better and it's long list of the good deeds of his we can discuss later. As far as I remember you have found no Pole in the history which tributed to Poland half of what "this beast" did ... How does it happen Piotr that when we touched this item through the mail box your position was quite close to what you now mind ?
"Baltics and Ukrainians fear and distrust you so much"
Please don't mix those people ! I agree in the part of the Micro Balts who are afraid of the revenge for their constant provocations against us. But it has nothing to do with the Ukraine where we 73% now stand for closer relations with Russia and 9% back closer cooperation with the West.
"He destroyed your country as much as he did mine."
Piotr please stop this propaganda ! When asked what Pole did for Poland as much as Stalin did you found nothing to say and now you behave as Condy whose soul and skin are of the same color. Besides you cannot judje Stalin from the Soviet point of view. We have other accusations for Stalin than you say. But we are not blind not to see that he accepted a devastated and ruined country and returned it as the most influetial in the world ! In 1953 the US could only dream of the political influennce we were enjoying.
pre 15 godina
> Leonidas: Mirek & Joe
Pay some respect to the 25 Millions of Russian soldiers
which died fighting Fascism.
Leonidas, I feel sincerely sorry for the loss of life of millions of young Russians who, after your coalition with the fascist Germany (Molotov - Ribentrof pact - i.e. the 'dissolution' of Poland - things Peter is talking about to - unfortunately - deaf ears it seems...) ended as it had to end (how naive the Russians were then, you tell me about naivity:).
Also - what percentage of the deaths was caused by Stalin and his circles, not giving a proper armour to your armies? Think about that. I believe it is at least more than 50% of the total (i.e. at least 10 million of unnecessary death on the Russian side, all Stalin's fault...)
But the unfortunate thing is that no one can say today if we were going to be worse off under Germans than Russians. The totalitarian regime you kept in power lasted over 40 years (without Russian support/orders the communist puppets would not last a decade). Who can say under Germans a democratization would not come much earlier? And we all know that the fascist Germany was clearly defeated in 1945 and should you not arrive to Central Europe, we could have been helped by our western allies. It was Stalin's insistance to free Prague, US were less than 2 hours from Prague in the city of Pilsen (home of lager beer in western Bohemia), when you still were in Berlin - he had been already thinking 'strategically' about the post WWII order in Europe and what part of it could he still conquer. We were unlucky to end up on the wrong side of the Iron Curtain, cut off from our family of the Western nations, subjected to ruthless rule by our new Eastern masters.
You can't be that silly not to understand that at least in principle, the thing is, your country - Russia - is still too depressed, still too poor (as Joe has correctly mentioned - at least for most of your people that is, I don't care about Abramoviches etc. who stole day & night from the state, helped by Putin to keep him in power in return) to be able to even try to have a fair relationship with other countries, to try to foster a real friendship etc.
First you should start with your own repentance, asking others for forgiveness for what you have done. Then we can talk about how our relationship is going to be in future. Until then, no contact with Russia will be 'normal'.
You start your process today, on the 40th anniversary of the brutal attack of Russia on Czechoslovakia. Our people have not and will never forget!
All the Best to All Good People!
pre 15 godina
ORTHODOX.RU
"Piotr as we know "this beast" has killed about 900 000 of Soviet citizens including criminals during his last 17 years since 1936 till 1953 and goes in no comparison with Hitler ... "
Are you forgetting Holodomor? Anyway, didn't you mention circa 700 000 in your emails? At least that's what I remember. Either way, 900 000 people is what, nothing really important?
"As far as I remember you have found no Pole in the history which tributed to Poland half of what "this beast" did"
Every Poles in charge of Poland has done better things than Stalin! Except maybe Jaruzelski, and Gomulka, they are almost as hated as Stalin, but they never deported and/or murdered anybody, at least not even 0,01% as Stalin did.
"But we are not blind not to see that he accepted a devastated and ruined country and returned it as the most influetial in the world ! In 1953 the US could only dream of the political influennce we were enjoying."
Fair enough, but he did nothing for Poland. Before Gierek, Poland had a chronic shortage of everything from housing, to hospitals, to schools, to roads, to power supply... then Gierek came and actually pushed us ahead.
pre 15 godina
ORTHODOX.RU, LEONIDAS, Veki
Let's face it gentlemen. Only the clueless would truly see those missiles as a threat to Russia.
With its thousands of nuclear warheads, bomber planes, and who knows how many short/mid-range missiles, Russia would have no issues overrunning that particular base and probably many others.
In case you weren't paying attention to recent news however, the last ballistic missile batch that Iran tested, had a long enough range to hit Cyprus and possibly even parts of Greece. It does not take a great technological leap to extend that range by another couple of thousand miles to encompass the entire Europe.
pre 15 godina
Piotr
I am far from thinking that you don't understand what you are talking of. So I am not going taking part in your propagandist campaign. You escape the issues where your defeat becomes evident and deliver here silly western propaganda ducks created for low educated Europeans. Piotr next time you are going to talk on such a low level jumping from issue to another please find someone else.
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