"Russia could strike Poland over U.S. shield"

Peggy

I really wish Poland and Russia could have better relations with each other, but sadly our history has only led to massive distrust between each other. While war is always a mutual thing, unfortunately history proves to us that Russia was always by far the more imperialist country between the two (ask the Finns, Estonians, Lithuanians, Latvians, Ukrainians and Georgians).

Naturally we feel a Slavic bond with the Russians, most Poles have nothing against the Russian people (who too have suffered massively under their authorities in the past), I myself am very fond of Russian culture, music, literature and the average people, and greatly respect their contributions to mankind, but I hate their authorities with a passion for what they have done to Poland in the past.

The reason why we have chosen America as an ally and not Russia is because we have never fought a single war with the USA and have generally always sided with them. Russia on the other hand, has subjected us to centuries of invasions, war, occupation, Russification, deportation, suppression of our culture and freedom, destruction of our intelligentsia and others seen as a threat, slave labor and even mass murder (Kaytn).

I think it is clear who we would feel safer with. BTW Georgia is not a part of NATO and made an incredibly stupid move thinking that the US would leap to their aid, but Poland is a part of NATO and would not do something as stupid and/or aggressive as the Georgians did before.

"Russia on the other hand, has subjected us to centuries of invasions, war, occupation, Russification, deportation, suppression of our culture and freedom, destruction of our intelligentsia and others seen as a threat, slave labor and even mass murder (Kaytn)."

Sounds like what Serbs did to Albanians

We will nuke Poland!!!
This were the words of a top Russian General!

Hello Peter where are you?!

You see with which kind of people we are living!
They still believe on using force to solve the problems!!!
It is a Big Game of two,USA and Russia and the rest of us can be only a spectator!

Something never changes,...

I hope Poland has a change of mind about this. Poland is in Europe and a Slavic country. They should think about forging better relations with Russia instead of the US who have shown they will not defend you if push comes to shove.

Poland, why expose yourself to such risks for no reward?
George thought they were safe too but look at what happened. No reward for Georgia for being America's puppet.

If Poland goes ahead with this they only have themselves to blame if things go wrong. Don't be the guy in between two super powers when they are fighting. You will only get hurt.

Peggy

"Being friends with America is one thing, but putting yourself in the line of fire for them is crazy."

I think we are doing more for ourselves than for America. Like I say Peggy, Poland is feeling very nervous at the moment after watching how Russia crushed Georgia. It just shows that they are not scared to use force, and Poland needs to make sure that nothing happens to them. Remember that these are defensive interceptor missiles and have no offensive capability. If they are used, it means that somebody has fired on them first.

"Do you really think that American image is better than Russian? "

No Peggy, I don't. I am very critical of America's foreign policy and of the steps they have taken to achieve their goals (or at least try to), in some cases they are far worse than Russia, but when it comes to Poland, they have not done anything remotely to us like Russia has, which is probably why we feel safer with them.

"Russia will defend their allies and brothers and you can feel safe being their friend now. "

I really wish it would be that simple, but like I said, those squabbles you spoke of earlier were usually the type where we lost many innocent people and had to live under someone's jackboot. It's difficult to trust someone like that again.

"Look at Germany. America's mates now. Look at what they have done to you in the past. Do you now brush that aside and say we'll be great friends because we can forgive them but cast Russia out because you can't?"

Unlike Russia, Germany has taken a far more constructive stance at improving relations with Poland. They have ensured us that the current borders of Poland and Germany are here to stay, they have compensated the people who worked as slave labor in Germany (something Russia has not done), they have apologized for what they did to us in the war (something Russia has not done), they are pumping millions of euros into our country in terms of infrastructural funding, which is improving not only the general economy, but also the living standards of the people (some Russia did not do for us at any time after the war) and they were a very strong voice for Poland joining the EU and NATO. This shows that this country has changed its mentality towards Poland, more so than a country that puts an embargo on our exports and plans to build an economically senseless pipeline through the Baltic, only because it is offended that some countries left its sphere of influence.

So the Missile Defense shield was for Russia afterall and used Iran/North Korea issue as a scapegoat. The WEST had finally showed its true colors.

Peter, I do understand that you have suffered. We all have. The Slavic people in particular have had it tough, but going the extra mile for America now is suicide. Why do you need to do that?
Being friends with America is one thing, but putting yourself in the line of fire for them is crazy.
Like all families, the Slavs had squabbles but they do come back to each other eventually. This is the time to unite and not fragment. This is how America works. They divide and then control.

Can you see examples of their friendly persuasions all over the world? South America, Korea and Vietnam paint horrible pictures of America delivering "democracy".

More recently Iraq. Look at all the brutality there. Do you really think that American image is better than Russian?
We have a different America and different Russia today.
Don't be afraid of Russia any longer. Stalin and like are out and will not return.
Russia will defend their allies and brothers and you can feel safe being their friend now.
Look at Germany. America's mates now. Look at what they have done to you in the past. Do you now brush that aside and say we'll be great friends because we can forgive them but cast Russia out because you can't? In order to risk your country for America you will need to buddy up to Germany as a result too. They are on the same page now.

Peter you make a good case and I agree with you on many points. I do however think that the Polish leadership is doing a dis-service to the Polish people. You really don't need this. Will this increase or decrease Polish security? I cant believe it will increase Poland's security. Russia is long over trying to control that part of Europe. You can't use the argument about "look what happened to Georgia". The Georgians are pawns in a US game attempting to encircle Russia and what Saakashvilli did was unacceptable- don't be the same pawns. Best wishes to a fellow slav nation.

Peter, I admire your posts and respect your opinion. You are very informed on most issues in Europe, and I as a serb am beginning to understand why you feel that way about Russia. However, your main selling point for setting up missiles in poland is that they are "defensive". I am not a weapons expert so I don't know if such things even exist, but I doubt very much that these missiles can only be used as a defense. Just because the papers write it doesn't mean its true, and your an intelligent guy so I know your not that gullible. My point is that the US can't be trusted, there is a chance that these can be amissiles that attack.

We will nuke Poland!!!
This were the words of a top Russian General!

Hello Peter where are you?!

You see with which kind of people we are living!
They still believe on using force to solve the problems!!!
It is a Big Game of two,USA and Russia and the rest of us can be only a spectator!

Something never changes,...

So the Missile Defense shield was for Russia afterall and used Iran/North Korea issue as a scapegoat. The WEST had finally showed its true colors.

I hope Poland has a change of mind about this. Poland is in Europe and a Slavic country. They should think about forging better relations with Russia instead of the US who have shown they will not defend you if push comes to shove.

Poland, why expose yourself to such risks for no reward?
George thought they were safe too but look at what happened. No reward for Georgia for being America's puppet.

If Poland goes ahead with this they only have themselves to blame if things go wrong. Don't be the guy in between two super powers when they are fighting. You will only get hurt.

Peggy

I really wish Poland and Russia could have better relations with each other, but sadly our history has only led to massive distrust between each other. While war is always a mutual thing, unfortunately history proves to us that Russia was always by far the more imperialist country between the two (ask the Finns, Estonians, Lithuanians, Latvians, Ukrainians and Georgians).

Naturally we feel a Slavic bond with the Russians, most Poles have nothing against the Russian people (who too have suffered massively under their authorities in the past), I myself am very fond of Russian culture, music, literature and the average people, and greatly respect their contributions to mankind, but I hate their authorities with a passion for what they have done to Poland in the past.

The reason why we have chosen America as an ally and not Russia is because we have never fought a single war with the USA and have generally always sided with them. Russia on the other hand, has subjected us to centuries of invasions, war, occupation, Russification, deportation, suppression of our culture and freedom, destruction of our intelligentsia and others seen as a threat, slave labor and even mass murder (Kaytn).

I think it is clear who we would feel safer with. BTW Georgia is not a part of NATO and made an incredibly stupid move thinking that the US would leap to their aid, but Poland is a part of NATO and would not do something as stupid and/or aggressive as the Georgians did before.

"Russia on the other hand, has subjected us to centuries of invasions, war, occupation, Russification, deportation, suppression of our culture and freedom, destruction of our intelligentsia and others seen as a threat, slave labor and even mass murder (Kaytn)."

Sounds like what Serbs did to Albanians

Peter, I do understand that you have suffered. We all have. The Slavic people in particular have had it tough, but going the extra mile for America now is suicide. Why do you need to do that?
Being friends with America is one thing, but putting yourself in the line of fire for them is crazy.
Like all families, the Slavs had squabbles but they do come back to each other eventually. This is the time to unite and not fragment. This is how America works. They divide and then control.

Can you see examples of their friendly persuasions all over the world? South America, Korea and Vietnam paint horrible pictures of America delivering "democracy".

More recently Iraq. Look at all the brutality there. Do you really think that American image is better than Russian?
We have a different America and different Russia today.
Don't be afraid of Russia any longer. Stalin and like are out and will not return.
Russia will defend their allies and brothers and you can feel safe being their friend now.
Look at Germany. America's mates now. Look at what they have done to you in the past. Do you now brush that aside and say we'll be great friends because we can forgive them but cast Russia out because you can't? In order to risk your country for America you will need to buddy up to Germany as a result too. They are on the same page now.

Peggy

"Being friends with America is one thing, but putting yourself in the line of fire for them is crazy."

I think we are doing more for ourselves than for America. Like I say Peggy, Poland is feeling very nervous at the moment after watching how Russia crushed Georgia. It just shows that they are not scared to use force, and Poland needs to make sure that nothing happens to them. Remember that these are defensive interceptor missiles and have no offensive capability. If they are used, it means that somebody has fired on them first.

"Do you really think that American image is better than Russian? "

No Peggy, I don't. I am very critical of America's foreign policy and of the steps they have taken to achieve their goals (or at least try to), in some cases they are far worse than Russia, but when it comes to Poland, they have not done anything remotely to us like Russia has, which is probably why we feel safer with them.

"Russia will defend their allies and brothers and you can feel safe being their friend now. "

I really wish it would be that simple, but like I said, those squabbles you spoke of earlier were usually the type where we lost many innocent people and had to live under someone's jackboot. It's difficult to trust someone like that again.

"Look at Germany. America's mates now. Look at what they have done to you in the past. Do you now brush that aside and say we'll be great friends because we can forgive them but cast Russia out because you can't?"

Unlike Russia, Germany has taken a far more constructive stance at improving relations with Poland. They have ensured us that the current borders of Poland and Germany are here to stay, they have compensated the people who worked as slave labor in Germany (something Russia has not done), they have apologized for what they did to us in the war (something Russia has not done), they are pumping millions of euros into our country in terms of infrastructural funding, which is improving not only the general economy, but also the living standards of the people (some Russia did not do for us at any time after the war) and they were a very strong voice for Poland joining the EU and NATO. This shows that this country has changed its mentality towards Poland, more so than a country that puts an embargo on our exports and plans to build an economically senseless pipeline through the Baltic, only because it is offended that some countries left its sphere of influence.

Peter you make a good case and I agree with you on many points. I do however think that the Polish leadership is doing a dis-service to the Polish people. You really don't need this. Will this increase or decrease Polish security? I cant believe it will increase Poland's security. Russia is long over trying to control that part of Europe. You can't use the argument about "look what happened to Georgia". The Georgians are pawns in a US game attempting to encircle Russia and what Saakashvilli did was unacceptable- don't be the same pawns. Best wishes to a fellow slav nation.

Peter, I admire your posts and respect your opinion. You are very informed on most issues in Europe, and I as a serb am beginning to understand why you feel that way about Russia. However, your main selling point for setting up missiles in poland is that they are "defensive". I am not a weapons expert so I don't know if such things even exist, but I doubt very much that these missiles can only be used as a defense. Just because the papers write it doesn't mean its true, and your an intelligent guy so I know your not that gullible. My point is that the US can't be trusted, there is a chance that these can be amissiles that attack.