UN SC divided over March 17 riots

"serb regime killing innocent civilians and kids"?

albano, you should either inform yourself properly or just stay quiet.

I don´t think it was innocent civilians or kids who were bombing cafe´s, wearing camo-uniforms and building up road-blockades...

maybe you´ve read too much fiction.

or you are just lying.

"Churkin said that if UNMIK had been more patient, the situation could have been solved peacefully, but due to a rash and provocative decision, the consequences were such that one UNMIK police officer had been killed. "

The same rehtorics, it reminds to me the time, when serbias regime, was killing inocent civilians betwen them kids also, all over ex YU and russians still looking for a "peacfull" solution, however it proved wrong, that without not using the force, without bombing Belgrade and lot of other serbian cities, Serbia did not understand the word "solution".
Now he is refering that police should have done nothing, let he serbs looting and burning buildings in Kosova, however Russia is proving itself again wrong, the influented serbian minority in Kosova , from Belgrade regime, it seams did not understand yet the lesson, and the should not be confident on russian or serbian help anymore, Kosova has it's own borders, and the law will rule all over those borders, so my sugestion to serb minority in Kosova is:
if serb minority wants to live the way they are used too,isolate themselves and live in ghetos they should continue this,
if serb minority wants to prosper then they should bow to the Kosovas law,
in each case Kosova is a state, ( their state too ), and there will never be any different.

Albano, i think u heed to find Romina! The serbs had and stil have the right to protect against all kind of thiefs their teritory! They did not steal from albanians, albanians only did.Y're not better than the serbs...You've killed too the civilians.I hope the serbs will never bow to your so-called laws as you never bowed to serbian laws. And I'm afraid that the albanians will never prosper,we have the examples to this date...Is much better for them to follow their own route without your help and proeperity.

No doubt that UN Report was critical of UNMIK's actions on March 17th. But to what degree critical is a question? We won't find out unless report is released to the general public.

This was on B92 yesterday.

http://www.b92.net/eng/news/politics-article.php?yyyy=2008&mm=08&dd=06&nav_id=52486

"Western diplomats have confirmed that a critical view has been adopted towards the international forces’ operation, but that the soldiers and police acted within their mandate."

So, much for the report. As for Caren Pierce, she voiced her own private oppinion.

"She said that the report had not taken into account the situation in the field, and that the interpretation that it had been a case of “excessive UNMIK reaction against peaceful demonstrators” was erroneous. "

She's here critical of the report and what it DID NOT take into account.

"... the interpretation that these were peaceful demonstrations where UNMIK reacted waywardly with excessive force is, in my opinion, untrue,” said Pierce. "

Again, one would have to read the UN report. Was it critical of how raid of the courthouse was conducted? Few days earlier former employees of the court occupied it in protest. UNMIK crashed the door, twisted arms, handcuffed people (by the reports of that time) at the courthouse. Crashing doors and twisting arms ceirtainly was excessive and unnecessary given that nobody resisted at the courthouse. Is this the violance that UN report is critical off? We don't know.

As protester were taken from the courthouse they were waited by angry locals who have learned about this raid, and that's when riots broke out.

"In her opinion, the idea had been expressed that the demonstrators had not been protesting solely at the Kosovo declaration of independence, but that extremists had wished to exploit the situation and roll the clock back to before 1999. "

Agian, it's her oppinion. It deosn't seem to be substantiated.

One thing is very noticable, though. Or the absence of it, rather.

After the riots in March, then UNMIK Chief Joachim Ruecker went to the press, claiming that he has "rock solid evidence" that Serbian policemen were in the courthouse on that day. He said that he will present the evidence to the investigators leading this UN inquery.
There is no mention of Serbian policemen in the courthouse. What happened to his "rock solid evidence"?

Joachim, Joachim...

No surprise another event in Kosovo is taking on parallel historical narratives depending on where one sits, whether it's in the UNSC, Kosovo itself, or this chat site.

UNSC meeting it turned out 1 against 14 members. Now, I wonder if 14 countries are wrong and only Russia is right.

“albano, you should either inform yourself properly or just stay quiet. “
(Jovan, 7 August 2008 15:35

Jovane – attitudes like this have led us precisely where we are. Your ethnocentrism approach doesn’t help the matter.
And to say the least but certainly not the last, Serbian army was killing civilians of any ethnicity other then Serbian indiscriminately, raping women repeatedly and using innocent civilians as a human shield and hide cowardly.
I urge you to reflect on this, and then comment again what you think this would amount in ‘psychiatric’ terms.

It's not the first time gross incompetence is covered up by those at the head of the chain.

If everything was done kosher, then why is the report being held back? What is there to hide? Who's careers are on the line because of this?

> Churkin said that if UNMIK had been more patient, the situation could have been solved peacefully, but due to a rash and provocative decision, the consequences were such that one UNMIK police officer had been killed.

Obviously. Repeating...
Report criticises the then UNMIK leadership in pristina for the decision to launch the raid itself - & not for UNMIK/NATO actions during the riot.

Raid was utterly irresponsible (perhaps criminally so) & should never have been attempted under those circumstances.

That is what the authors of the report meant by 'the use of unneccessary force'.

The blind could see this, but not it seems UK rep. Karen Pierce who said:

> ... and that a number of Security Council delegations firmly believed that UNMIK had acted within its mandate.

Once again, repeating...
Pity these 'western diplomats' didn't take into account the 'reality on the ground' as they & others did when the K-albanians declared their UDI back in February. That declaration was also outside UNMIK's mandate & by this logic, should have been 'squashed' there & then.

Attempting to use this argument now in justification of Rossin & Ruecker's idiotic mission on March 17th doesn't quite 'cut it'.

She also said:
> She said that the report had not taken into account the situation in the field, and that the interpretation that it had been a case of “excessive UNMIK reaction against peaceful demonstrators” was erroneous.

I see. The report's authors are wrong & you are right.

Or far more likely, the findings of the report do not suit the agenda of your country - which is why madam, you refuse to accept it.

> This was a pre-meditated attack on international representatives in Kosovo. The demonstrators had access to large calibre weaponry, Molotov cocktails and grenades, so that the interpretation that these were peaceful demonstrations where UNMIK reacted waywardly with excessive force is, in my opinion, untrue,” said Pierce.

And yet once again - The reports authors criticised the UNMIK raid & those that were responsible for it over the decision to launch the raid in the first place - not for the events themselves.

Your 'opinion' Karen Pierce ... is worthless.

Small wonder then, that you defend the likes of Ruecker & Rossin.


Meti:
I suggest you take a look at your statement & substitute 'KLA' & 'Albanian' for 'Serbian'.

Here, will make it easy for you:

And to say the least but certainly not the last, KLA was killing civilians of any ethnicity other then Albanian indiscriminately, raping women repeatedly and using innocent civilians as a human shield and hide cowardly.

Applies equally save that KLA did in fact kill their own civilians as well.

Reflect on that.


Joe Smith:
> UNSC meeting it turned out 1 against 14 members. Now, I wonder if 14 countries are wrong and only Russia is right.

X-ray vision? Was a closed meeting.

Doubt if it was even a majority.


Mr Churkin:
If 'Ban' dithers on this issue - release the report so we can all see just what is said.

"Churkin said that if UNMIK had been more patient, the situation could have been solved peacefully, but due to a rash and provocative decision, the consequences were such that one UNMIK police officer had been killed. "

The same rehtorics, it reminds to me the time, when serbias regime, was killing inocent civilians betwen them kids also, all over ex YU and russians still looking for a "peacfull" solution, however it proved wrong, that without not using the force, without bombing Belgrade and lot of other serbian cities, Serbia did not understand the word "solution".
Now he is refering that police should have done nothing, let he serbs looting and burning buildings in Kosova, however Russia is proving itself again wrong, the influented serbian minority in Kosova , from Belgrade regime, it seams did not understand yet the lesson, and the should not be confident on russian or serbian help anymore, Kosova has it's own borders, and the law will rule all over those borders, so my sugestion to serb minority in Kosova is:
if serb minority wants to live the way they are used too,isolate themselves and live in ghetos they should continue this,
if serb minority wants to prosper then they should bow to the Kosovas law,
in each case Kosova is a state, ( their state too ), and there will never be any different.

“albano, you should either inform yourself properly or just stay quiet. “
(Jovan, 7 August 2008 15:35

Jovane – attitudes like this have led us precisely where we are. Your ethnocentrism approach doesn’t help the matter.
And to say the least but certainly not the last, Serbian army was killing civilians of any ethnicity other then Serbian indiscriminately, raping women repeatedly and using innocent civilians as a human shield and hide cowardly.
I urge you to reflect on this, and then comment again what you think this would amount in ‘psychiatric’ terms.

"serb regime killing innocent civilians and kids"?

albano, you should either inform yourself properly or just stay quiet.

I don´t think it was innocent civilians or kids who were bombing cafe´s, wearing camo-uniforms and building up road-blockades...

maybe you´ve read too much fiction.

or you are just lying.

UNSC meeting it turned out 1 against 14 members. Now, I wonder if 14 countries are wrong and only Russia is right.

Albano, i think u heed to find Romina! The serbs had and stil have the right to protect against all kind of thiefs their teritory! They did not steal from albanians, albanians only did.Y're not better than the serbs...You've killed too the civilians.I hope the serbs will never bow to your so-called laws as you never bowed to serbian laws. And I'm afraid that the albanians will never prosper,we have the examples to this date...Is much better for them to follow their own route without your help and proeperity.

No surprise another event in Kosovo is taking on parallel historical narratives depending on where one sits, whether it's in the UNSC, Kosovo itself, or this chat site.

No doubt that UN Report was critical of UNMIK's actions on March 17th. But to what degree critical is a question? We won't find out unless report is released to the general public.

This was on B92 yesterday.

http://www.b92.net/eng/news/politics-article.php?yyyy=2008&mm=08&dd=06&nav_id=52486

"Western diplomats have confirmed that a critical view has been adopted towards the international forces’ operation, but that the soldiers and police acted within their mandate."

So, much for the report. As for Caren Pierce, she voiced her own private oppinion.

"She said that the report had not taken into account the situation in the field, and that the interpretation that it had been a case of “excessive UNMIK reaction against peaceful demonstrators” was erroneous. "

She's here critical of the report and what it DID NOT take into account.

"... the interpretation that these were peaceful demonstrations where UNMIK reacted waywardly with excessive force is, in my opinion, untrue,” said Pierce. "

Again, one would have to read the UN report. Was it critical of how raid of the courthouse was conducted? Few days earlier former employees of the court occupied it in protest. UNMIK crashed the door, twisted arms, handcuffed people (by the reports of that time) at the courthouse. Crashing doors and twisting arms ceirtainly was excessive and unnecessary given that nobody resisted at the courthouse. Is this the violance that UN report is critical off? We don't know.

As protester were taken from the courthouse they were waited by angry locals who have learned about this raid, and that's when riots broke out.

"In her opinion, the idea had been expressed that the demonstrators had not been protesting solely at the Kosovo declaration of independence, but that extremists had wished to exploit the situation and roll the clock back to before 1999. "

Agian, it's her oppinion. It deosn't seem to be substantiated.

One thing is very noticable, though. Or the absence of it, rather.

After the riots in March, then UNMIK Chief Joachim Ruecker went to the press, claiming that he has "rock solid evidence" that Serbian policemen were in the courthouse on that day. He said that he will present the evidence to the investigators leading this UN inquery.
There is no mention of Serbian policemen in the courthouse. What happened to his "rock solid evidence"?

Joachim, Joachim...

It's not the first time gross incompetence is covered up by those at the head of the chain.

If everything was done kosher, then why is the report being held back? What is there to hide? Who's careers are on the line because of this?

> Churkin said that if UNMIK had been more patient, the situation could have been solved peacefully, but due to a rash and provocative decision, the consequences were such that one UNMIK police officer had been killed.

Obviously. Repeating...
Report criticises the then UNMIK leadership in pristina for the decision to launch the raid itself - & not for UNMIK/NATO actions during the riot.

Raid was utterly irresponsible (perhaps criminally so) & should never have been attempted under those circumstances.

That is what the authors of the report meant by 'the use of unneccessary force'.

The blind could see this, but not it seems UK rep. Karen Pierce who said:

> ... and that a number of Security Council delegations firmly believed that UNMIK had acted within its mandate.

Once again, repeating...
Pity these 'western diplomats' didn't take into account the 'reality on the ground' as they & others did when the K-albanians declared their UDI back in February. That declaration was also outside UNMIK's mandate & by this logic, should have been 'squashed' there & then.

Attempting to use this argument now in justification of Rossin & Ruecker's idiotic mission on March 17th doesn't quite 'cut it'.

She also said:
> She said that the report had not taken into account the situation in the field, and that the interpretation that it had been a case of “excessive UNMIK reaction against peaceful demonstrators” was erroneous.

I see. The report's authors are wrong & you are right.

Or far more likely, the findings of the report do not suit the agenda of your country - which is why madam, you refuse to accept it.

> This was a pre-meditated attack on international representatives in Kosovo. The demonstrators had access to large calibre weaponry, Molotov cocktails and grenades, so that the interpretation that these were peaceful demonstrations where UNMIK reacted waywardly with excessive force is, in my opinion, untrue,” said Pierce.

And yet once again - The reports authors criticised the UNMIK raid & those that were responsible for it over the decision to launch the raid in the first place - not for the events themselves.

Your 'opinion' Karen Pierce ... is worthless.

Small wonder then, that you defend the likes of Ruecker & Rossin.


Meti:
I suggest you take a look at your statement & substitute 'KLA' & 'Albanian' for 'Serbian'.

Here, will make it easy for you:

And to say the least but certainly not the last, KLA was killing civilians of any ethnicity other then Albanian indiscriminately, raping women repeatedly and using innocent civilians as a human shield and hide cowardly.

Applies equally save that KLA did in fact kill their own civilians as well.

Reflect on that.


Joe Smith:
> UNSC meeting it turned out 1 against 14 members. Now, I wonder if 14 countries are wrong and only Russia is right.

X-ray vision? Was a closed meeting.

Doubt if it was even a majority.


Mr Churkin:
If 'Ban' dithers on this issue - release the report so we can all see just what is said.