13th anniversary of Operation Storm

the real worst attrocity in europe since world war two, of course done by the same (nazi´s).

i wonder why B92 doesn´t mention the un-mission that was overrun by the croatian hordes and the killed un-soldiers?

i wonder why this croatian called "bad gorilla" (nomen est omen) is still being posted here? because he this times says ethnic cleansing is cool if it makes you eu- and nato-puppet?

and why is he allowed to post nonsense about "reunification" of croatia and krajina, two things that don´t have ANYTHING to do with each other ?

“to kiss the flag, sing the national anthem, and speak of those days of pride and glory,”

-Well if this is some kind of pride for them let them then be. I would be personally ashamed if our army had celebrated some imaginary victory over unarmed civilians. If they call it pride then their poor army is in trouble. Imagine pride of 40 000 soldiers applying horrible force against unarmed civilians. This is nothing to be proud of but worst disgrace.

However, Milosevic was supposed to be hanged in the centre of Belgrade for betraying Krajina Serbs by withholding them the protection by our forces. If there was resistance the situation would be a lot different nowadays.

It is just important for us to never forget what have happened with Krajina Serbs.

The betrayal of Krajina remains the only and real crime of big bad Slobo.

Such wrongs will be righted but not until the reign of the Occident comes to an end in the near future.

It is still unfortunate in the 21st century that in order for one to celebrate a national holiday and a day of national unity, ethnic cleansing is a by-product. Croatia is no better or worse than Serbia, or Turkey for that matter. The real long-lasting crime is not the actual ethnic expulsion, but the historical revisionism that is officially being taught to a new generation that grew up afterwards, and will believe anything political elites selectively choose to tell them.

No doubt Thompson's in a good mood today.

ok gorilla, so you are against the formation of a illegal Kosovo state inside the internationally recognized borders of Srbija?

btw, Kosovo je Srbija!

Freedom of speech, eh? God forbid anyone should challange the lies against Serbs - in which case it becomes inapropriate.

Serb smearing is welcome, it seems.

But there are worse things than being a spiteful, venomous Serbophobe - you could be one of them.

I applaud my Serbian friends who have shown sympathy and understanding regardless of ethnicity when any tragedy is involved, unlike certain ethnic groups on this site - mainly Albanians.

I am glad that regardless of what they say, and how much they smear us, we will not let the littleness in them bring out the littleness in us.
Because we know better. Because we are better.

posters need to stop being hypocrites. Storm was a terrible event and any other events during the war, from all sides. But hypocrites please stop, you look silly.

Just like Kosovo a "new state" on the territory of Serbia, right Bad Gorila. And it's ok as long as Serbs are the victims. Same anti Serb mentality and nazi thinking by our anti Serb friends here. Nothing new to me. Freedom of Speech.

Look, I am not in favor of ethnic cleansing. What I am agianst is the violent (remember Vukovar) criation of artificial, gerrymandered puppet-states inside the territory of a newly recognized independent country, as it happened to Croatia (within the borders of former Socialist Croatia, as it was stablished by the Badinter Commission) with the creation of “Serb Krajina”...
(Bad Gorilla, 4 August 2008 17:33)

Bad Gorrilla are you also referring to Kosovo in your statement or do you only pick against Serbs!

the CNN, BBC media cares very little for the victims of operation storm. To them, operation storm was justified! Its not about them its about the Serbian media and the lies they feed the serb people every day. Nobody cares about the krajina serbs, not the west, not the voivodina residents who threw stones and fruit and the convoys of serb refugees. Its about creating fiction of history.

Apart from church commemorations in Belgrade every year, I really hope the Government will finally and totaly integrate the refugees in Serbia. For me it is a totaly hypocricy to manipulate about their going back, as soon as we realise that only the total integration of Serbs from Croatia and Kosovo in Serbia is our priority, we will become a serious country, and a serious sign to our neighbours.

bmrusila I think you are letting Sloba away too easily. From a national perspective it was not only the Krajina Serbs who Sloba betrayed but also the Bosnian Serbs.

I'm sure you remember the closure of the Serbian border with Bosnia leaving the Bosnian Serbs out to dry. On the other hand there was Pale that did not appear to want to stop and negotiate.

You know when you think back to that period its completely different than it seems now.

But there is one common thing - we had a bunch of leaders who were useless and didn't care for ordinary people.

Yeah Sloba is lucky. As you point out the Krajina Serbs intended to march on Belgrade, some were angry but others wanted to humiliate him (and the political damage would have been huge as well).

A friend of mine in the column told me this was the plan and a Croatian Serb General would have led the 'occupation'. However, the police and army put up checkpoints closing off the path of the Krajina Serbs and thus keeping Sloba's dirty little secret away from sight. And his media did a job in making sure that the general public never saw the real pictures of what they went though. Truly disgusting.

And for the finish we had the disaster in Kosovo... Thanks Sloba.

“We cannot compare Kosovo with “Serb Krajina”. Kosovo since 1945 is a defined territory and was a defined autonomous region… not true political-social entities like Kosovo was. (Bad Gorilla, 4 August 2008 22:19)”

Mr. Gorilla,

Krajina was in fact was an autonomous region for hundreds of years with a rich history. I could also make the argument that Kosovo wasn’t because Slobo took that status away, but that sounds silly doesn’t it?

Yugoslavia since 1945 was ruled by a Croatian dictator, that is why it did not enjoy the same protections as Vojvodina and Kosovo. Krajina most certainly deserved the same status as Vojvodina and Kosovo, even more so since the population there was subjected to genocide and crimes that make the atrocities of the 90’s look tame in comparison. Even Hitler was so shocked at their brutality he asked them to mellow out. Some unbelievable shit happened there. Many of the survivors of that terror lived long enough to see it return.

The reality is the same types of oppression that drove the Albanians under Milosevic to rebel were committed in Croatia. Keep in mind that Tudjman was just as nasty and power hungry as Milosevic. Read some of his books, they are very scary. Combined with the resurgence of Ustashe propaganda and its “rehabilitation” in public opinion, it’s no wonder the Serbs there took up arms. You would have too.

Did politicians in Belgrade take advantage of that fear in order to build their own empires? Most certainly, but that does not taint the innocent people of Krajina who genuinely lived in great fear for their lives. Look the wars of the 90’s started almost 20 years ago, and its still fresh in our minds. The wars of the 90’s started 40-some years after the slaughter ended in WWII. How do you think the Jews of Germany would feel if Neo-Nazi’s started running around making new laws to discriminate Jews and rehabilitating the Nazi regime? They’d be scared as hell, and rightfully so. No one in their right mind would question their right to defend themselves.

No country in the Balkans has a history of treating its minorities well. The Right to Self Determination should belong to all nations there, not just non-Serbians.

Bganon,

You’re letting Good Ole’ Slobo away too easily as well. Do not forget the economic crimes that skillful banker lawyer guy pulled on the people. Convert all the hard currency to Dinars and then print so much money as to make it virtually worthless. Overnight he stole the fortune of an entire nation.

However, that is neither here nor there for our innocent victims of Tudjman’s and Slobo’s folly.

Let this be a day for the Serbian victims. Just one day. You guys can have all the rest if you like, but for just one day a year, can you open your hearts to the victims regardless of their race?

The Krajina Serbs have always had it rough. This has been a difficult enough century for them. Maybe it is best if we just don’t go back. Why should another generation have to suffer so? My brother in law moved back, and I fear for the future of their children, I really do.

The massive evacuations, expulsions and eventual civillian killings of Operation Storm were a very bad thing, but on the other side the dissolution of the puppet state of Serbian Krajina was a good thing for the re-unification of the Croatian state, which is now closer to NATO and the EU than its neighboors Bosnia and Serbia.

I would recommend one book to all Serb and non-Serb folks who want to understand events of the 90's better:
"Fool's Crusade" by Diane Johnstone.
It's a brilliant, courageous and superbly informative book with figures, facts and quotes from the original documents.
A real must-read for Serbs (vast masses) who still live in a naive disbelief about how did they ended up into the present situation.
But in a meantime just 3 words
to the Serbs, refugees from Croatia who think of going back:
Don't Go There.

We cannot compare Kosovo with “Serb Krajina”. Kosovo since 1945 is a defined territory and was a defined autonomous region, with its own parliament, Albanian-language press, institutions, schools and universities. Since the Tito period, Kosovo was Serbia in just a “pro forma” way -- and after the death of Tito, it even had the same voting power as Central Serbia, Vojvodina and other Yugoslav republics had.

There was never a “Krajina Parliament”, a Krajina press or Krajina institutions in Croatia before 1991 -- and that is the best proof that Krajina, as the same way that Bosnia’s Republika Srpska, was a political invention of Serb nationalists commanded by Milosevic, not true political-social entities like Kosovo was.

ahhhh the horror and the humour!

Milosevic gave NATO the go ahead to bomb srbobran-----before the bombing milosevic informed the Krajina serbs that he would give no further military support------Appperantly Karadzic also made deals------I guess its just in the serb nature to make deals with the people who hate them the most----it continues even today!

the revolution will be televised

cccc

Bganon,

I did not let Sloba away that easily. I was just focusing on this particular event. I am aware of his (un)deeds and each time I remember him or relate him to some particular event, extraordinary feeling of disgust occupies my mind and the entire body. Every of his actions were truly disgusting and his leading incapability amazing. As such, no wonder why he was always surrounded by wrong characters.

I just cannot forgive us, the ordinary people, for staying so indifferent for so long. I do not count those protest walks for months or any kind of resistance for that matter as it turned out to be failure. We should have been more aggressive and more decisive in taking him down from the “throne”.

Just to correct myself to Burim Kelmendi, I ment the "Puppet state of kosova" on the territory of Serbia. I'm not to worried anymore, because Kosovo always returnes to Serbia. History will repeat it's self.

I seem to remember a time when the very young Croatian Army had nothing but hunting rifles and held back the Mighty Jna , now when we had a measly 3 years to build and army the Serb rebels were being routed with the likes of Arkan running like a chicken from Banja Luka. The JNA did not get involved because it could not for fear of invasion. If by any chance they did Kosovo would have been the new front added and Croatia and the Muslims of Bosnia would have been on the Drina and maybe even further..

Look, I am not in favor of ethnic cleansing. What I am agianst is the violent (remember Vukovar) criation of artificial, gerrymandered puppet-states inside the territory of a newly recognized independent country, as it happened to Croatia (within the borders of former Socialist Croatia, as it was stablished by the Badinter Commission) with the creation of “Serb Krajina”...

Impressing how you learn from each other. How you operate on the field, celebrate the heroes and mourn the dead. One side whose on the turn will change it into the good, no matter if Krajina or Kosovo.

You have the right colours on the flag but the wrong alignment and you use different words for bread!
So stay tuned, one day the heathens will be cast out ...

The whole war was sensless. It could have been prevented. The Croats downgrading of the status of the Serbs was probably annoing, but although they were to lose the statos of a "constituent nation" in independent Croatia, they were to retain full citizenship rights if they haven't tried to fiolently carve up a "Serbian" stae on Croatian territory. They started the ethnic clensing abd that is undeniable. Well two wrongs don't make one right. Two wrongs don't compensate for one another, They add up. The peaceful return of all the expulsed Serbs, who are ready to accept the rights and the responsibilities of Croatian citizen is a must.

Just like Kosovo a "new state" on the territory of Serbia, right Bad Gorila. And it's ok as long as Serbs are the victims. Same anti Serb mentality and nazi thinking by our anti Serb friends here. Nothing new to me. Freedom of Speech.
(Delije, 4 August 2008 21:11)

I think he meant trying Mitrovica inside of Kosova...

Gorilla,

The Military Frontier lasted for hundreds of years and was not under the jurisdiction of Croatia. Hardly temporary or an “integral part” of Croatia. If we employ such logic, then we could say Vojvodina and Kosovo got autonomy simply to support Tito’s “weak Serbia, strong Yugoslavia” policy. With the end of Yugoslavia, this policy had no further use.

Tito may have been a Yugoslav Communist, but he was not blind to ethnicity and his policies were designed to stifle democracy and lower the influence of Serbians in Yugoslavia where they made up the majority. Simply the fact that he did not make Krajina autonomous but did so for Vojvodina proves this beyond a doubt.

“Jasenovac does not justify Vukovar, nor Srebrenica.” No it does not, but you’re just using “sound bytes” to avoid actually addressing my point which has NOTHING to do with Vukovar or Srebrenica. What it does justify is the right of the Serbian population to defend itself against the rehabilitation of the Ustashe and their return. Had a moderate and not a crazy nationalist like Tudjman come to power, you’d have a valid argument, but I’ve read Tudjman’s books and I know better.

“there was no possibility of the resurgence of Nazi-puppet Croatia or concentration camps, even under Tudjman.”

http://www.b92.net/eng/news/region-article.php?yyyy=2008&mm=08&dd=05&nav_id=52470

Read the article from yesterday, yes there were camps at the start of the war in 1992 where thousands of innocent civilians and children were killed. Read the old articles from the Economist magazine from the beginning of the war, and you’ll see Croatia is credited with starting the ethnic cleansing at that time.

You under-estimate the effect the Croatian flag, the currency and the return and open welcome of former members of the Ustashe to the Croatian government. The renaming of streets after Ustashe members, not to mention the books Tudjman wrote. In addition the purging of Serbians from their jobs and forcing people to declare their ethnicity.

Whether or not it was actually Tudjman’s intent to murder the remaining Serbs is up to debate, but what is absolutely clear is he engaged in psychological warfare designed to put the fear of death into the Serbian population.

If there was no possibility of a resurgence of the Ustashe, why did so many paramilitary groups use that name, why is Krajina filled with Ustashe graffiti all over the destroyed homes and Churches, even to this day. I’ve been there and seen it with my own eyes, I know better. So why does it look like that even to this day?

“The right of self-determination in the case of Yugoslavia did not applied to the religious or ethnic groups, but to the former Socialist Yugoslav Republics and eventually Tito-era autonomous provinces.”

I could understand if it were just the former Republics, but when you add Tito’s artificial creations to the mix, then you have to ask yourself if other areas that should have received autonomy were left out because of Tito’s “weak Serbia” policy.

To blame everything on Belgrade propaganda is pretty intellectually lazy and expresses a strong lack of understanding of the complexities of Balkan politics.

The reality is, even the UN commission decided Croatia did not respect minority rights enough to merit independence at the time, but Germany went ahead and pushed it through without thinking of the long term affects it might have.

A go slow approach might very well have avoided a lot of this mess.

The article amazingly doesn't mention Operation Lightning. With Operation Lightning Croatia had showed that they were militairity superior and that they were bent on "cleansing" the areas that they "liberated". If you take that - and the failure of the Serb counterattacks due to American intelligence and support for Croatia - into account the fast departure of the Serbs is even without collusion of Milosevic quite explainable.

Of course Milosevic would remember the Krajna and later try to do the same to the Albanians in Kosovo. But: Quod licet Iovi non licet bovi.

I just wanted to congratulate Croatian people for the anniversary of their country's liberation.

“Krajina was in fact was an autonomous region for hundreds of years with a rich history”… as integral parts of Croatia-Slavonia and Dalmatia.

And please, don’t talk about the so-called “military frontier”, since Austria made that, temporairly, not to “give autonomy to the Serbs” but to protect the Austrian Empire from Ottoman invasions.

“Yugoslavia since 1945 was ruled by a Croatian dictator”

Tito came from a Catholic, Slovene-Croatian family, but in fact he always considered himself a Yugoslav Communist and staunch secularist.

“even more so since the population there was subjected to genocide and crimes that make the atrocities of the 90’s look tame in comparison.”

That’s the old rethoric of 1986 SANU Memorandum and Milosevic... anyway, even with we take account of what happened during the quisling state of Croatia, this do not justify what happened later in the 90’s, with the Belgrade-assisted agression of Croatia. Jasenovac does not justify Vukovar, nor Srebrenica.

“Most certainly, but that does not taint the innocent people of Krajina who genuinely lived in great fear for their lives.”

But that was fuelled mainly by Belgrade media propaganda, not facts. The people of Croatia were relatively OK, and there was no possibility of the resurgence of Nazi-puppet Croatia or concentration camps, even under Tudjman.

“No country in the Balkans has a history of treating its minorities well. The Right to Self Determination should belong to all nations there, not just non-Serbians.”

The right of self-determination in the case of Yugoslavia did not applied to the religious or ethnic groups, but to the former Socialist Yugoslav Republics and eventually Tito-era autonomous provinces. The international community did not considered the end of Yugoslavia a “partition” between Yugoslav peoples, but a “dissolution” of a former federation, in which the former Yugoslav republics became new countries, with the same recognized borders of the former republics.

And that is the difference.

“because Kosovo always returnes to Serbia. History will repeat it's self.”

I hope Kosovo and Serbia will be united, without checkpoints and using the same money... under EU and NATO.

The massive evacuations, expulsions and eventual civillian killings of Operation Storm were a very bad thing, but on the other side the dissolution of the puppet state of Serbian Krajina was a good thing for the re-unification of the Croatian state, which is now closer to NATO and the EU than its neighboors Bosnia and Serbia.

Look, I am not in favor of ethnic cleansing. What I am agianst is the violent (remember Vukovar) criation of artificial, gerrymandered puppet-states inside the territory of a newly recognized independent country, as it happened to Croatia (within the borders of former Socialist Croatia, as it was stablished by the Badinter Commission) with the creation of “Serb Krajina”...

Impressing how you learn from each other. How you operate on the field, celebrate the heroes and mourn the dead. One side whose on the turn will change it into the good, no matter if Krajina or Kosovo.

You have the right colours on the flag but the wrong alignment and you use different words for bread!
So stay tuned, one day the heathens will be cast out ...

I seem to remember a time when the very young Croatian Army had nothing but hunting rifles and held back the Mighty Jna , now when we had a measly 3 years to build and army the Serb rebels were being routed with the likes of Arkan running like a chicken from Banja Luka. The JNA did not get involved because it could not for fear of invasion. If by any chance they did Kosovo would have been the new front added and Croatia and the Muslims of Bosnia would have been on the Drina and maybe even further..

posters need to stop being hypocrites. Storm was a terrible event and any other events during the war, from all sides. But hypocrites please stop, you look silly.

We cannot compare Kosovo with “Serb Krajina”. Kosovo since 1945 is a defined territory and was a defined autonomous region, with its own parliament, Albanian-language press, institutions, schools and universities. Since the Tito period, Kosovo was Serbia in just a “pro forma” way -- and after the death of Tito, it even had the same voting power as Central Serbia, Vojvodina and other Yugoslav republics had.

There was never a “Krajina Parliament”, a Krajina press or Krajina institutions in Croatia before 1991 -- and that is the best proof that Krajina, as the same way that Bosnia’s Republika Srpska, was a political invention of Serb nationalists commanded by Milosevic, not true political-social entities like Kosovo was.

The article amazingly doesn't mention Operation Lightning. With Operation Lightning Croatia had showed that they were militairity superior and that they were bent on "cleansing" the areas that they "liberated". If you take that - and the failure of the Serb counterattacks due to American intelligence and support for Croatia - into account the fast departure of the Serbs is even without collusion of Milosevic quite explainable.

Of course Milosevic would remember the Krajna and later try to do the same to the Albanians in Kosovo. But: Quod licet Iovi non licet bovi.

Just like Kosovo a "new state" on the territory of Serbia, right Bad Gorila. And it's ok as long as Serbs are the victims. Same anti Serb mentality and nazi thinking by our anti Serb friends here. Nothing new to me. Freedom of Speech.
(Delije, 4 August 2008 21:11)

I think he meant trying Mitrovica inside of Kosova...

“Krajina was in fact was an autonomous region for hundreds of years with a rich history”… as integral parts of Croatia-Slavonia and Dalmatia.

And please, don’t talk about the so-called “military frontier”, since Austria made that, temporairly, not to “give autonomy to the Serbs” but to protect the Austrian Empire from Ottoman invasions.

“Yugoslavia since 1945 was ruled by a Croatian dictator”

Tito came from a Catholic, Slovene-Croatian family, but in fact he always considered himself a Yugoslav Communist and staunch secularist.

“even more so since the population there was subjected to genocide and crimes that make the atrocities of the 90’s look tame in comparison.”

That’s the old rethoric of 1986 SANU Memorandum and Milosevic... anyway, even with we take account of what happened during the quisling state of Croatia, this do not justify what happened later in the 90’s, with the Belgrade-assisted agression of Croatia. Jasenovac does not justify Vukovar, nor Srebrenica.

“Most certainly, but that does not taint the innocent people of Krajina who genuinely lived in great fear for their lives.”

But that was fuelled mainly by Belgrade media propaganda, not facts. The people of Croatia were relatively OK, and there was no possibility of the resurgence of Nazi-puppet Croatia or concentration camps, even under Tudjman.

“No country in the Balkans has a history of treating its minorities well. The Right to Self Determination should belong to all nations there, not just non-Serbians.”

The right of self-determination in the case of Yugoslavia did not applied to the religious or ethnic groups, but to the former Socialist Yugoslav Republics and eventually Tito-era autonomous provinces. The international community did not considered the end of Yugoslavia a “partition” between Yugoslav peoples, but a “dissolution” of a former federation, in which the former Yugoslav republics became new countries, with the same recognized borders of the former republics.

And that is the difference.

“because Kosovo always returnes to Serbia. History will repeat it's self.”

I hope Kosovo and Serbia will be united, without checkpoints and using the same money... under EU and NATO.

the real worst attrocity in europe since world war two, of course done by the same (nazi´s).

i wonder why B92 doesn´t mention the un-mission that was overrun by the croatian hordes and the killed un-soldiers?

i wonder why this croatian called "bad gorilla" (nomen est omen) is still being posted here? because he this times says ethnic cleansing is cool if it makes you eu- and nato-puppet?

and why is he allowed to post nonsense about "reunification" of croatia and krajina, two things that don´t have ANYTHING to do with each other ?

Apart from church commemorations in Belgrade every year, I really hope the Government will finally and totaly integrate the refugees in Serbia. For me it is a totaly hypocricy to manipulate about their going back, as soon as we realise that only the total integration of Serbs from Croatia and Kosovo in Serbia is our priority, we will become a serious country, and a serious sign to our neighbours.

The betrayal of Krajina remains the only and real crime of big bad Slobo.

Such wrongs will be righted but not until the reign of the Occident comes to an end in the near future.

Freedom of speech, eh? God forbid anyone should challange the lies against Serbs - in which case it becomes inapropriate.

Serb smearing is welcome, it seems.

But there are worse things than being a spiteful, venomous Serbophobe - you could be one of them.

I applaud my Serbian friends who have shown sympathy and understanding regardless of ethnicity when any tragedy is involved, unlike certain ethnic groups on this site - mainly Albanians.

I am glad that regardless of what they say, and how much they smear us, we will not let the littleness in them bring out the littleness in us.
Because we know better. Because we are better.

Gorilla,

The Military Frontier lasted for hundreds of years and was not under the jurisdiction of Croatia. Hardly temporary or an “integral part” of Croatia. If we employ such logic, then we could say Vojvodina and Kosovo got autonomy simply to support Tito’s “weak Serbia, strong Yugoslavia” policy. With the end of Yugoslavia, this policy had no further use.

Tito may have been a Yugoslav Communist, but he was not blind to ethnicity and his policies were designed to stifle democracy and lower the influence of Serbians in Yugoslavia where they made up the majority. Simply the fact that he did not make Krajina autonomous but did so for Vojvodina proves this beyond a doubt.

“Jasenovac does not justify Vukovar, nor Srebrenica.” No it does not, but you’re just using “sound bytes” to avoid actually addressing my point which has NOTHING to do with Vukovar or Srebrenica. What it does justify is the right of the Serbian population to defend itself against the rehabilitation of the Ustashe and their return. Had a moderate and not a crazy nationalist like Tudjman come to power, you’d have a valid argument, but I’ve read Tudjman’s books and I know better.

“there was no possibility of the resurgence of Nazi-puppet Croatia or concentration camps, even under Tudjman.”

http://www.b92.net/eng/news/region-article.php?yyyy=2008&mm=08&dd=05&nav_id=52470

Read the article from yesterday, yes there were camps at the start of the war in 1992 where thousands of innocent civilians and children were killed. Read the old articles from the Economist magazine from the beginning of the war, and you’ll see Croatia is credited with starting the ethnic cleansing at that time.

You under-estimate the effect the Croatian flag, the currency and the return and open welcome of former members of the Ustashe to the Croatian government. The renaming of streets after Ustashe members, not to mention the books Tudjman wrote. In addition the purging of Serbians from their jobs and forcing people to declare their ethnicity.

Whether or not it was actually Tudjman’s intent to murder the remaining Serbs is up to debate, but what is absolutely clear is he engaged in psychological warfare designed to put the fear of death into the Serbian population.

If there was no possibility of a resurgence of the Ustashe, why did so many paramilitary groups use that name, why is Krajina filled with Ustashe graffiti all over the destroyed homes and Churches, even to this day. I’ve been there and seen it with my own eyes, I know better. So why does it look like that even to this day?

“The right of self-determination in the case of Yugoslavia did not applied to the religious or ethnic groups, but to the former Socialist Yugoslav Republics and eventually Tito-era autonomous provinces.”

I could understand if it were just the former Republics, but when you add Tito’s artificial creations to the mix, then you have to ask yourself if other areas that should have received autonomy were left out because of Tito’s “weak Serbia” policy.

To blame everything on Belgrade propaganda is pretty intellectually lazy and expresses a strong lack of understanding of the complexities of Balkan politics.

The reality is, even the UN commission decided Croatia did not respect minority rights enough to merit independence at the time, but Germany went ahead and pushed it through without thinking of the long term affects it might have.

A go slow approach might very well have avoided a lot of this mess.

“to kiss the flag, sing the national anthem, and speak of those days of pride and glory,”

-Well if this is some kind of pride for them let them then be. I would be personally ashamed if our army had celebrated some imaginary victory over unarmed civilians. If they call it pride then their poor army is in trouble. Imagine pride of 40 000 soldiers applying horrible force against unarmed civilians. This is nothing to be proud of but worst disgrace.

However, Milosevic was supposed to be hanged in the centre of Belgrade for betraying Krajina Serbs by withholding them the protection by our forces. If there was resistance the situation would be a lot different nowadays.

It is just important for us to never forget what have happened with Krajina Serbs.

It is still unfortunate in the 21st century that in order for one to celebrate a national holiday and a day of national unity, ethnic cleansing is a by-product. Croatia is no better or worse than Serbia, or Turkey for that matter. The real long-lasting crime is not the actual ethnic expulsion, but the historical revisionism that is officially being taught to a new generation that grew up afterwards, and will believe anything political elites selectively choose to tell them.

No doubt Thompson's in a good mood today.

I would recommend one book to all Serb and non-Serb folks who want to understand events of the 90's better:
"Fool's Crusade" by Diane Johnstone.
It's a brilliant, courageous and superbly informative book with figures, facts and quotes from the original documents.
A real must-read for Serbs (vast masses) who still live in a naive disbelief about how did they ended up into the present situation.
But in a meantime just 3 words
to the Serbs, refugees from Croatia who think of going back:
Don't Go There.

ok gorilla, so you are against the formation of a illegal Kosovo state inside the internationally recognized borders of Srbija?

btw, Kosovo je Srbija!

Look, I am not in favor of ethnic cleansing. What I am agianst is the violent (remember Vukovar) criation of artificial, gerrymandered puppet-states inside the territory of a newly recognized independent country, as it happened to Croatia (within the borders of former Socialist Croatia, as it was stablished by the Badinter Commission) with the creation of “Serb Krajina”...
(Bad Gorilla, 4 August 2008 17:33)

Bad Gorrilla are you also referring to Kosovo in your statement or do you only pick against Serbs!

Just like Kosovo a "new state" on the territory of Serbia, right Bad Gorila. And it's ok as long as Serbs are the victims. Same anti Serb mentality and nazi thinking by our anti Serb friends here. Nothing new to me. Freedom of Speech.

The whole war was sensless. It could have been prevented. The Croats downgrading of the status of the Serbs was probably annoing, but although they were to lose the statos of a "constituent nation" in independent Croatia, they were to retain full citizenship rights if they haven't tried to fiolently carve up a "Serbian" stae on Croatian territory. They started the ethnic clensing abd that is undeniable. Well two wrongs don't make one right. Two wrongs don't compensate for one another, They add up. The peaceful return of all the expulsed Serbs, who are ready to accept the rights and the responsibilities of Croatian citizen is a must.

ahhhh the horror and the humour!

Milosevic gave NATO the go ahead to bomb srbobran-----before the bombing milosevic informed the Krajina serbs that he would give no further military support------Appperantly Karadzic also made deals------I guess its just in the serb nature to make deals with the people who hate them the most----it continues even today!

the revolution will be televised

cccc

bmrusila I think you are letting Sloba away too easily. From a national perspective it was not only the Krajina Serbs who Sloba betrayed but also the Bosnian Serbs.

I'm sure you remember the closure of the Serbian border with Bosnia leaving the Bosnian Serbs out to dry. On the other hand there was Pale that did not appear to want to stop and negotiate.

You know when you think back to that period its completely different than it seems now.

But there is one common thing - we had a bunch of leaders who were useless and didn't care for ordinary people.

Yeah Sloba is lucky. As you point out the Krajina Serbs intended to march on Belgrade, some were angry but others wanted to humiliate him (and the political damage would have been huge as well).

A friend of mine in the column told me this was the plan and a Croatian Serb General would have led the 'occupation'. However, the police and army put up checkpoints closing off the path of the Krajina Serbs and thus keeping Sloba's dirty little secret away from sight. And his media did a job in making sure that the general public never saw the real pictures of what they went though. Truly disgusting.

And for the finish we had the disaster in Kosovo... Thanks Sloba.

the CNN, BBC media cares very little for the victims of operation storm. To them, operation storm was justified! Its not about them its about the Serbian media and the lies they feed the serb people every day. Nobody cares about the krajina serbs, not the west, not the voivodina residents who threw stones and fruit and the convoys of serb refugees. Its about creating fiction of history.

“We cannot compare Kosovo with “Serb Krajina”. Kosovo since 1945 is a defined territory and was a defined autonomous region… not true political-social entities like Kosovo was. (Bad Gorilla, 4 August 2008 22:19)”

Mr. Gorilla,

Krajina was in fact was an autonomous region for hundreds of years with a rich history. I could also make the argument that Kosovo wasn’t because Slobo took that status away, but that sounds silly doesn’t it?

Yugoslavia since 1945 was ruled by a Croatian dictator, that is why it did not enjoy the same protections as Vojvodina and Kosovo. Krajina most certainly deserved the same status as Vojvodina and Kosovo, even more so since the population there was subjected to genocide and crimes that make the atrocities of the 90’s look tame in comparison. Even Hitler was so shocked at their brutality he asked them to mellow out. Some unbelievable shit happened there. Many of the survivors of that terror lived long enough to see it return.

The reality is the same types of oppression that drove the Albanians under Milosevic to rebel were committed in Croatia. Keep in mind that Tudjman was just as nasty and power hungry as Milosevic. Read some of his books, they are very scary. Combined with the resurgence of Ustashe propaganda and its “rehabilitation” in public opinion, it’s no wonder the Serbs there took up arms. You would have too.

Did politicians in Belgrade take advantage of that fear in order to build their own empires? Most certainly, but that does not taint the innocent people of Krajina who genuinely lived in great fear for their lives. Look the wars of the 90’s started almost 20 years ago, and its still fresh in our minds. The wars of the 90’s started 40-some years after the slaughter ended in WWII. How do you think the Jews of Germany would feel if Neo-Nazi’s started running around making new laws to discriminate Jews and rehabilitating the Nazi regime? They’d be scared as hell, and rightfully so. No one in their right mind would question their right to defend themselves.

No country in the Balkans has a history of treating its minorities well. The Right to Self Determination should belong to all nations there, not just non-Serbians.

Bganon,

You’re letting Good Ole’ Slobo away too easily as well. Do not forget the economic crimes that skillful banker lawyer guy pulled on the people. Convert all the hard currency to Dinars and then print so much money as to make it virtually worthless. Overnight he stole the fortune of an entire nation.

However, that is neither here nor there for our innocent victims of Tudjman’s and Slobo’s folly.

Let this be a day for the Serbian victims. Just one day. You guys can have all the rest if you like, but for just one day a year, can you open your hearts to the victims regardless of their race?

The Krajina Serbs have always had it rough. This has been a difficult enough century for them. Maybe it is best if we just don’t go back. Why should another generation have to suffer so? My brother in law moved back, and I fear for the future of their children, I really do.

Bganon,

I did not let Sloba away that easily. I was just focusing on this particular event. I am aware of his (un)deeds and each time I remember him or relate him to some particular event, extraordinary feeling of disgust occupies my mind and the entire body. Every of his actions were truly disgusting and his leading incapability amazing. As such, no wonder why he was always surrounded by wrong characters.

I just cannot forgive us, the ordinary people, for staying so indifferent for so long. I do not count those protest walks for months or any kind of resistance for that matter as it turned out to be failure. We should have been more aggressive and more decisive in taking him down from the “throne”.

Just to correct myself to Burim Kelmendi, I ment the "Puppet state of kosova" on the territory of Serbia. I'm not to worried anymore, because Kosovo always returnes to Serbia. History will repeat it's self.

I just wanted to congratulate Croatian people for the anniversary of their country's liberation.