32

Friday, 01.08.2008.

15:20

Slovakia to refuse Kosovo passports

Slovakia says that it neither accepts nor recognizes the new Kosovo passports that have started to be issued in Priština.

Izvor: Nicole Janigro

Slovakia to refuse Kosovo passports IMAGE SOURCE
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32 Komentari

Sortiraj po:

Alex

pre 15 godina

Ok, time to be realistic….
All this talk so far has been of immature type, like….my toy is better…not its mine.
How many people think US, UK, Germany,France, Italy, Japan, Australia, Canada and the rest will back up the recognition of Kosovo? Probably few…
Does Serbia (rational people) think they can get Kosovo back?....prabably few…
Kosovo Partition? Serbs would want to take N.Mitrovica (maybe)…Albanians (maybe) would say sure, we take Presevo, Bujanovac… (wonder the fate of the majority of Serbs in Kosovo who do not live in the north btw…), and internationals wouldn’t want that, as God knows what would happen with Macedonia, Bosnia and Montenegro… But who is better off from this? Practically,,,, none
And believes Russia defends international law? Hahaha…would wish to believe….they defend their interests, control the economy of Serbia via energy….and maybe transport too (JAT), and continue their trip to real property investments in Montenegro…..(soon Budva will host Putin presidential residencies there..)
Serbia sure can hurt Kosovo, but not without hurting themselves even more. By putting strong statements ‘we will never recognize’, they are getting bound to their commitment. Next elections they either have to flip-flop and enter the EU (with risk of loosing credibility/ elections to radicals) or stay out of the EU. But sure Albania by then would get in, which in the future…YES vote= recogniton of KS).

Srboslav

pre 15 godina

Ahmet, you wrote

"The irony is that this guy can not put five words in english to make out a sentence. Anyway Kosovars have no need to travel to Slovakia whatsoever."


I would like to say that the irony is that you, and all Kosovo albanians will have to listen to what this Slovakian guy have to say, he is in charge of part of yoúr "country", whether you like it or not, he makes the rules in Pec so don´t be so disrespectful to him, you have to listen to him.

Thankfully none of these clowns rule north of Kosovo or the enclaves there we have democraticly elected politicians.

T Payne

pre 15 godina

To Ahmed Isufi

Let me quote you:

'The irony is that this guy can not put five words in english to make out a sentence.'

You have used 18 words and still can't, as you put it, 'make out a sentence'.

Ataman

pre 15 godina

I myself found a beautiful solution: In the map that I have, I painted Slovakia with dark blue, so it now resembles a big lake.
(Adrian Gashi, 2 August 2008 03:35)

Adrian, I can upload you some more blue color because you will need to paint Bosnia, too. I did not know, my prediction will come so soon.


http://www.b92.net/eng/news/comments.php?nav_id=52399

Peter Sudyka

pre 15 godina

Adrian Gashi

You wish Kosovo was anywhere near Slovakia in terms of living standards and development, so I don't get why you are laughing at their significance as an Albanian.

Ahmet Isufi

"Kosova should do the same and kick out Slovaks taking part in EULEX."

Kosovo has no authority to do anything to any EU state, especially since they are putting food on your plate.

Roger7

pre 15 godina

"Kosova should do the same and kick out Slovaks taking part in EULEX"

This type of chest thumping is rather humorous.

Sure, "Snake" Thaci will tell his western masters what to do.

BKK

pre 15 godina

Hermon,

have you been to any EU country? There is still a border control, the difference is you can go in with ID cards if you're from EU (excet UK where you need a passport).
There are still people checking at the port of entry.

You didn't really think there is noone there controling who crosses borders, did you?

Adrian Gashi

pre 15 godina

Why worry so much, I can guarantee you that 99.99% of the Kosovars don't even know where Slovakia is on a map, let alone worry how they are ever going to go there, or worse, plot schemes how to sneak into that garden of Eden that is Slovakia. Don't worry people, and don't worry Slovakia: we don't want to go there.
I myself found a beautiful solution: In the map that I have, I painted Slovakia with dark blue, so it now resembles a big lake.

Martin from SVK

pre 15 godina

Slovakia won't accept kosovo passeports but it still recongizes serbian passeports and UNMIK travel documents. These are legal ways how citizens from Kosovo will be able to visite Slovakia.

Fact that schengen visas for new kosovo passeports will be issued for all countries from Schengen with exception of Slovakia will probably mean, that this exception will be explicitly stated on the visa received. Of course Schengen area is the open area, so there are no controls when crossing borders from other schengen countries, like some preople here said. But if people carrying kosovo passeports only enter Slovakia, they will be here illegally. This means that if they're caught by police or other control in the inland, they will be probably expelled and their return might be forbidden for several years. This is what is means, nothing more, nothing less..

Joe

pre 15 godina

Bruce,
As a Brit you see the people of the "continent" (I am using the British term) correctly. They thrive on making rules but they hardly or just partially observe them. Also some of these smaller operette-type countries like to be noticed from time to time by the outside world by taking contrary decisions. These inhabitants will also tell you what a great football team they had a long time ago or that this and this doctor or researcher just discouvered a miracle drug. In every 5-6 months somebody "discovers" something "major". He tries to sell it for fews weeks among credoulus people until his swindle is not profitable anymore. Anyway these decitions or news of earthshaking discoveries are just needed ego-boosters and serve mostly internal consumtion.

Bruce

pre 15 godina

As far as i'm aware a Schengen visa does not guarantee the bearer entry to a schengen country, merely facilitates it. If the country believe you might abuse your porsition in the county (visa or not) they may still refuse you.
The question is more that in truth this will have no effect. Just fly to vienna and enter through Austria, then pass over the open land border to Slovakia and your in. Slovakia will not reintriduce border checks, it would harm their international relations too much. It will just mean Kosovo passport holders will have to choose carefully which country to enter through.
It all makes a mockery of Schengen of course, but as a Brit, it always seems like a joke as there are no common rules enforced, so what is the point.

Ataman

pre 15 godina

Few previous posters probably wrote before m writing was posted.

The importance of Slovakia is that it now has the excuse to "temporarily" shut down the Schengen borders as long as it's neighbors do not comply. Austria temporarily did shut down the Schengen borders for much lesser reason (European Soccer Championship in 2008).

From Albanian point of view Slovakia is bordering:

- Ukraine (not Schengen, does not recognize Kosovo)
- Poland (a "swinger" Schengen country, sympathetic towards Serbia, Slovakia
- Czech Republic (a "swinger" Schengen country, sympathetic towards Serbia, Slovakia)
- Austria (more firm pro-K-independence Schengen country, rather neutral for Serbia, Slovakia
- Hungary (a special case, Schengen country. Divided towards Serbia and A., has own minority in Serbia and Slovkia, more hostile towards Slovakia than towards Serbia.)

It is easy to see, Slovakia potentially can push both Poland and Czech Republic with the "Schengen-closure". Hungary - true to it's tradition can be pushed to re-woke the recognition of Kosovo-travel document if the other two (Czech and Poland) do. Austrian reaction is uncertain. Seeing it's minority being cut off, Hungary very likely to agree, just to open the borders again.

That means, we may have potentially three countries: Czech Republic, Poland, Hungary which won't recognize Kosovo travel document. This would be probably the end, too - none of them has agenda to push that further on other countries. Would be that just merely not accepting the passports or also backing from Kosovo recognition is even more guesses further.

Please do not take this one more, than just a possible scenario. All I want is to illustrate, a smaller country within Schengen of what seems to be a "small" importance should not to be underestimated.

Hermon

pre 15 godina

Could please someone explain to me how they are going to stop someone carrying an Kosova passport, when he enters from Austria to Slavakia. There are no borders. So practically Slovakia has to reconsider their Schengen status, which I dont think they will be so silly to jeopardize their achievments, because of Beograde.
Thats a game between puppies

Ahmet Isufi

pre 15 godina

Kosova should do the same and kick out Slovaks taking part in EULEX. A Slovak with name Dusan Jakov has been appointed as Chief adviser from EULEX to KP Regional Commander in Peja Region. The irony is that this guy can not put five words in english to make out a sentence. Anyway Kosovars have no need to travel to Slovakia whatsoever.

louie

pre 15 godina

10% of population in Slovakia are Hungarians!
1.5 million Hungarians are in Romania!
So I understand that none of these countries above didn't recognise Kosovo as a country!
We shouldn't be mad at those countries,we shouldn't be mad at people from these countries!
I lived in Czech Republic for some time and met many Slovakians who were very friendly people.
I have a lot of friends who are married with Slovakian women!
They are very loyal and carring people.Compare to Czech(who consider themselves as Germans),Poles and the rest of the Eastern Europe,I find Slovaks the best to deal with!
So,in this case I won't be upset at all with these actions from Slovak Government,one thing they can't change is that Kosovo is the Newest Country in World and sooner rather then later they will realize that as well!!!
Gezuar,Ziveli and Na Zdravie!

miri

pre 15 godina

Mr. Andersen.
The passport issue for Slovakia is just a political issue. There is no technical disability to trust these passports, even more provided that they have a schengen stamp on it. The authority that issued the schengen stamp already accepted those passports as valid and Slovakia is bound to respect this rule.
Having said this, Slovakia can continue to refuse to accept these passports but what is going to do to those that will cross into Slovakia from Czech Republic without border control at all?

USA

pre 15 godina

PRN,

You are too quick to assume that the US will continue to arm-twist other countries into supporting independence. US support will not last forever, especially once the US realizes that the illegal government in Kosovo cannot sustain itself without billions of international dollars being force fed into the economy. By the way, why are Kosovo albanians so worried about getting support from every single country in the world? Why would you care what Slovakia's position is regarding the UDI? Inferiority complex, perhaps?

Jay

pre 15 godina

I don't know why B92 publishes this important articles anyway. I just can't find a Serbian media outlet in Serbian with some rational unbiased editorial news.
P.S. who cares if Slovakia accepts KS documents or not.

Ataman

pre 15 godina

Good point, Jan, this is probably correct.

There is one more issue with Schengen. Slovakia can (indirectly) push Hungary to call the recognition of UDI back. Schengen agreement does allow countries if they "see emergency issue" to "temporarily" re-install the border controls and other limitations.

Slovakia could say: "we do not trust the Pristina etc., etc., this is why we won't recognize the travel documents". Probably - indeed as you write they will back themself similar way. The same time they will say: "despite our ruling, there are cases of infiltration: we found people with Kosovo travel documents (and so on, so on) in Slovakia. To prevent this from happening we have to "close" our borders with Hungary and with Czech Republic."

Schengen accords do allow this (and it happened this year during EM'08 in Austria). That means, Czech Republic and Hungary has to chose: either they won't recognize these documents or they will suffer from Schengen border closure. Being between two fronts Hungary will probably chose the more pragmatic way. Czech Republic would be even easier to pursue. In Hungary there is indifference (at best) towards K-Albanians (even some reservation because of recent criminal activities), but frequent contacts with Hungarians in Slovakia and Serbia are pretty high on the popularity list.

I cannot predict, it will happen - but if yes, that would spell further disaster because Kosovo would be completely "cut off" on the land except Montenegro-Croatia-Bosnia-Croatia-Slovenia line. If there is a trouble with either Bosnia or Montenegro, things would look completely bad.

This is why "Schengen" + "Slovakia" potentially is at least as a bigger trouble as Russia or China.

Jan Andersen, DK

pre 15 godina

On 1 August 2008 16:11, Luigi wrote:

"A Schengen country will refuse the entry to a person with a schengen visa for an unlimited amount of time...."

I am not a lawyer, I don't even play one, but I don't see the problem here. A visa says that person X is allowed entry. But how do identify person X? With identity papers, like a passport. But the passport is only as good as the authority that issued it, and (crucially) how much you trust that authority - in this case the new Kosovo government. If you suspect that the authorities are giving away passports left and right without proper controls and checks (or for a few dollars in brown envelopes) then the passport is useless for identification purposes, and the visa is useless, Schengen or not.

Ataman

pre 15 godina

Oh, just noticed, PRN: as usual, you got a host of recommendations very quickly. Please ask for some more - the more you get, the more we see who are the supporters... Thanks again for spanking yourself.

Ataman

pre 15 godina

Washington and Brusels are in no hurry to pull Bratislava ears YET, but that time is going to come soon...
(PRN, 1 August 2008 16:42)

Thank you very much, PRN to admit:

1) "friendly" relationship between countries of EU and the "government" in Pristina are the result of Washington and Brussels pulling their ears. Like from CNN yesterday

http://www.b92.net/eng/news/comments.php?nav_id=52342

It's always nice to see the truth surfacing finally. Great.

2) That you EXPECT, Washington would pull the ears of independent countries.

So much about the "western democracy" ideas being strong in Kosovo or Albania. You expect things which have nothing to do with democracy or international law.

3) Does it mean, there are precedents, when Washington did "pull the ears" of some independent countries and they are hypocrites when it comes to the ideas of Founding Fathers?

Otherwise - please take care about yourself. Hungarians in Serbia, Romania, Slovakia will take care about themself without Albanian support because that kind of support could become a very heavy baggage later. Thanks.

bmrusila

pre 15 godina

When Slovakia already decided not to recognise Kosovo why in the earth would accept passports from some imaginary “state” that is not recognised by the UN, yet according to the UNSC is still province of another state. Why would Slovakia now take any steps that would contradict or be in direct conflict to their decision? If Slovakia accepted these souvenir passports no one could take or relay on Slovakia seriously on any important issue. Slovakia is simply resolute in the terms of foreign policy, international law and fosters much of self-respect. Slovakian government is perfectly capable of running their affairs independently without fearing threats and pressure coming from the outside.

My deepest respect for taking such stand!

Luigi

pre 15 godina

This is interesting...
they find a hole in the Agreement?
A Schengen country will refuse the entry to a person with a schengen visa for an unlimited amount of time....
Very very interesting....
Could be a thing (if it would be considered legal) to do also in other cases....
Damn Slowaks they are so smart !!

Olf

pre 15 godina

After some time they will accept Kosova passport. I understand them and I did not except them to recognise the new Kosova passport. Kosovar’s that I know had no plans to travel to Slovakia in the near future for any issue since whatever they need they can get it from Macedonia, Montenegro, Slovenia, Croatia, Germany etc, cheaper and better quality. However, respect to Slovak minister that feels this way about Kosova

Jovan

pre 15 godina

hey kid, it´s not about "harming private individuals", you should know that.

it´s about putting facts straight, and not accepting toy-passports.

no more, no less. you´ll learn to deal with it, many K-albanians already have serbian documents, anyway.

PRN

pre 15 godina

Very silly for the Slovakian government. Reciprocation from Kosovo government imminent.

They need us as much as we need them. Bratislava has very small weight to impact anything about Kosovo. When push comes to shove not that they will recognise Kosovo independence but will also apologise for their actions so far...as well as grant high level autonomy to Hungarian minority...

Furthermore, this will put them in further trouble with Washington and Brusels, from they get the FOOD...

Washington and Brusels are in no hurry to pull Bratislava ears YET, but that time is going to come soon...

Slovakia and Serbia are both strongly opposed to giving high level autonomy to the Hungarian minority in their respective countries...BUT the time will come and the solotion will be found...

Stoning Rolle

pre 15 godina

I think this is a self-important action. What's the gain to harm private individuals? One can accept that some countries do not agree with the unilateral declaration of independence, but it can only be wrong to hinder traveling. This action is an attack on basic individual rights.
Even that this decision is legal by slowak law, it is ignorant to forbide young Serbs and K-Albanians to meet in Bratislava.

PRN

pre 15 godina

Very silly for the Slovakian government. Reciprocation from Kosovo government imminent.

They need us as much as we need them. Bratislava has very small weight to impact anything about Kosovo. When push comes to shove not that they will recognise Kosovo independence but will also apologise for their actions so far...as well as grant high level autonomy to Hungarian minority...

Furthermore, this will put them in further trouble with Washington and Brusels, from they get the FOOD...

Washington and Brusels are in no hurry to pull Bratislava ears YET, but that time is going to come soon...

Slovakia and Serbia are both strongly opposed to giving high level autonomy to the Hungarian minority in their respective countries...BUT the time will come and the solotion will be found...

bmrusila

pre 15 godina

When Slovakia already decided not to recognise Kosovo why in the earth would accept passports from some imaginary “state” that is not recognised by the UN, yet according to the UNSC is still province of another state. Why would Slovakia now take any steps that would contradict or be in direct conflict to their decision? If Slovakia accepted these souvenir passports no one could take or relay on Slovakia seriously on any important issue. Slovakia is simply resolute in the terms of foreign policy, international law and fosters much of self-respect. Slovakian government is perfectly capable of running their affairs independently without fearing threats and pressure coming from the outside.

My deepest respect for taking such stand!

Jovan

pre 15 godina

hey kid, it´s not about "harming private individuals", you should know that.

it´s about putting facts straight, and not accepting toy-passports.

no more, no less. you´ll learn to deal with it, many K-albanians already have serbian documents, anyway.

Luigi

pre 15 godina

This is interesting...
they find a hole in the Agreement?
A Schengen country will refuse the entry to a person with a schengen visa for an unlimited amount of time....
Very very interesting....
Could be a thing (if it would be considered legal) to do also in other cases....
Damn Slowaks they are so smart !!

Jay

pre 15 godina

I don't know why B92 publishes this important articles anyway. I just can't find a Serbian media outlet in Serbian with some rational unbiased editorial news.
P.S. who cares if Slovakia accepts KS documents or not.

Olf

pre 15 godina

After some time they will accept Kosova passport. I understand them and I did not except them to recognise the new Kosova passport. Kosovar’s that I know had no plans to travel to Slovakia in the near future for any issue since whatever they need they can get it from Macedonia, Montenegro, Slovenia, Croatia, Germany etc, cheaper and better quality. However, respect to Slovak minister that feels this way about Kosova

Jan Andersen, DK

pre 15 godina

On 1 August 2008 16:11, Luigi wrote:

"A Schengen country will refuse the entry to a person with a schengen visa for an unlimited amount of time...."

I am not a lawyer, I don't even play one, but I don't see the problem here. A visa says that person X is allowed entry. But how do identify person X? With identity papers, like a passport. But the passport is only as good as the authority that issued it, and (crucially) how much you trust that authority - in this case the new Kosovo government. If you suspect that the authorities are giving away passports left and right without proper controls and checks (or for a few dollars in brown envelopes) then the passport is useless for identification purposes, and the visa is useless, Schengen or not.

miri

pre 15 godina

Mr. Andersen.
The passport issue for Slovakia is just a political issue. There is no technical disability to trust these passports, even more provided that they have a schengen stamp on it. The authority that issued the schengen stamp already accepted those passports as valid and Slovakia is bound to respect this rule.
Having said this, Slovakia can continue to refuse to accept these passports but what is going to do to those that will cross into Slovakia from Czech Republic without border control at all?

Ahmet Isufi

pre 15 godina

Kosova should do the same and kick out Slovaks taking part in EULEX. A Slovak with name Dusan Jakov has been appointed as Chief adviser from EULEX to KP Regional Commander in Peja Region. The irony is that this guy can not put five words in english to make out a sentence. Anyway Kosovars have no need to travel to Slovakia whatsoever.

louie

pre 15 godina

10% of population in Slovakia are Hungarians!
1.5 million Hungarians are in Romania!
So I understand that none of these countries above didn't recognise Kosovo as a country!
We shouldn't be mad at those countries,we shouldn't be mad at people from these countries!
I lived in Czech Republic for some time and met many Slovakians who were very friendly people.
I have a lot of friends who are married with Slovakian women!
They are very loyal and carring people.Compare to Czech(who consider themselves as Germans),Poles and the rest of the Eastern Europe,I find Slovaks the best to deal with!
So,in this case I won't be upset at all with these actions from Slovak Government,one thing they can't change is that Kosovo is the Newest Country in World and sooner rather then later they will realize that as well!!!
Gezuar,Ziveli and Na Zdravie!

Bruce

pre 15 godina

As far as i'm aware a Schengen visa does not guarantee the bearer entry to a schengen country, merely facilitates it. If the country believe you might abuse your porsition in the county (visa or not) they may still refuse you.
The question is more that in truth this will have no effect. Just fly to vienna and enter through Austria, then pass over the open land border to Slovakia and your in. Slovakia will not reintriduce border checks, it would harm their international relations too much. It will just mean Kosovo passport holders will have to choose carefully which country to enter through.
It all makes a mockery of Schengen of course, but as a Brit, it always seems like a joke as there are no common rules enforced, so what is the point.

Ataman

pre 15 godina

Washington and Brusels are in no hurry to pull Bratislava ears YET, but that time is going to come soon...
(PRN, 1 August 2008 16:42)

Thank you very much, PRN to admit:

1) "friendly" relationship between countries of EU and the "government" in Pristina are the result of Washington and Brussels pulling their ears. Like from CNN yesterday

http://www.b92.net/eng/news/comments.php?nav_id=52342

It's always nice to see the truth surfacing finally. Great.

2) That you EXPECT, Washington would pull the ears of independent countries.

So much about the "western democracy" ideas being strong in Kosovo or Albania. You expect things which have nothing to do with democracy or international law.

3) Does it mean, there are precedents, when Washington did "pull the ears" of some independent countries and they are hypocrites when it comes to the ideas of Founding Fathers?

Otherwise - please take care about yourself. Hungarians in Serbia, Romania, Slovakia will take care about themself without Albanian support because that kind of support could become a very heavy baggage later. Thanks.

Hermon

pre 15 godina

Could please someone explain to me how they are going to stop someone carrying an Kosova passport, when he enters from Austria to Slavakia. There are no borders. So practically Slovakia has to reconsider their Schengen status, which I dont think they will be so silly to jeopardize their achievments, because of Beograde.
Thats a game between puppies

USA

pre 15 godina

PRN,

You are too quick to assume that the US will continue to arm-twist other countries into supporting independence. US support will not last forever, especially once the US realizes that the illegal government in Kosovo cannot sustain itself without billions of international dollars being force fed into the economy. By the way, why are Kosovo albanians so worried about getting support from every single country in the world? Why would you care what Slovakia's position is regarding the UDI? Inferiority complex, perhaps?

Stoning Rolle

pre 15 godina

I think this is a self-important action. What's the gain to harm private individuals? One can accept that some countries do not agree with the unilateral declaration of independence, but it can only be wrong to hinder traveling. This action is an attack on basic individual rights.
Even that this decision is legal by slowak law, it is ignorant to forbide young Serbs and K-Albanians to meet in Bratislava.

Peter Sudyka

pre 15 godina

Adrian Gashi

You wish Kosovo was anywhere near Slovakia in terms of living standards and development, so I don't get why you are laughing at their significance as an Albanian.

Ahmet Isufi

"Kosova should do the same and kick out Slovaks taking part in EULEX."

Kosovo has no authority to do anything to any EU state, especially since they are putting food on your plate.

Roger7

pre 15 godina

"Kosova should do the same and kick out Slovaks taking part in EULEX"

This type of chest thumping is rather humorous.

Sure, "Snake" Thaci will tell his western masters what to do.

Ataman

pre 15 godina

Good point, Jan, this is probably correct.

There is one more issue with Schengen. Slovakia can (indirectly) push Hungary to call the recognition of UDI back. Schengen agreement does allow countries if they "see emergency issue" to "temporarily" re-install the border controls and other limitations.

Slovakia could say: "we do not trust the Pristina etc., etc., this is why we won't recognize the travel documents". Probably - indeed as you write they will back themself similar way. The same time they will say: "despite our ruling, there are cases of infiltration: we found people with Kosovo travel documents (and so on, so on) in Slovakia. To prevent this from happening we have to "close" our borders with Hungary and with Czech Republic."

Schengen accords do allow this (and it happened this year during EM'08 in Austria). That means, Czech Republic and Hungary has to chose: either they won't recognize these documents or they will suffer from Schengen border closure. Being between two fronts Hungary will probably chose the more pragmatic way. Czech Republic would be even easier to pursue. In Hungary there is indifference (at best) towards K-Albanians (even some reservation because of recent criminal activities), but frequent contacts with Hungarians in Slovakia and Serbia are pretty high on the popularity list.

I cannot predict, it will happen - but if yes, that would spell further disaster because Kosovo would be completely "cut off" on the land except Montenegro-Croatia-Bosnia-Croatia-Slovenia line. If there is a trouble with either Bosnia or Montenegro, things would look completely bad.

This is why "Schengen" + "Slovakia" potentially is at least as a bigger trouble as Russia or China.

BKK

pre 15 godina

Hermon,

have you been to any EU country? There is still a border control, the difference is you can go in with ID cards if you're from EU (excet UK where you need a passport).
There are still people checking at the port of entry.

You didn't really think there is noone there controling who crosses borders, did you?

Ataman

pre 15 godina

I myself found a beautiful solution: In the map that I have, I painted Slovakia with dark blue, so it now resembles a big lake.
(Adrian Gashi, 2 August 2008 03:35)

Adrian, I can upload you some more blue color because you will need to paint Bosnia, too. I did not know, my prediction will come so soon.


http://www.b92.net/eng/news/comments.php?nav_id=52399

Ataman

pre 15 godina

Oh, just noticed, PRN: as usual, you got a host of recommendations very quickly. Please ask for some more - the more you get, the more we see who are the supporters... Thanks again for spanking yourself.

Ataman

pre 15 godina

Few previous posters probably wrote before m writing was posted.

The importance of Slovakia is that it now has the excuse to "temporarily" shut down the Schengen borders as long as it's neighbors do not comply. Austria temporarily did shut down the Schengen borders for much lesser reason (European Soccer Championship in 2008).

From Albanian point of view Slovakia is bordering:

- Ukraine (not Schengen, does not recognize Kosovo)
- Poland (a "swinger" Schengen country, sympathetic towards Serbia, Slovakia
- Czech Republic (a "swinger" Schengen country, sympathetic towards Serbia, Slovakia)
- Austria (more firm pro-K-independence Schengen country, rather neutral for Serbia, Slovakia
- Hungary (a special case, Schengen country. Divided towards Serbia and A., has own minority in Serbia and Slovkia, more hostile towards Slovakia than towards Serbia.)

It is easy to see, Slovakia potentially can push both Poland and Czech Republic with the "Schengen-closure". Hungary - true to it's tradition can be pushed to re-woke the recognition of Kosovo-travel document if the other two (Czech and Poland) do. Austrian reaction is uncertain. Seeing it's minority being cut off, Hungary very likely to agree, just to open the borders again.

That means, we may have potentially three countries: Czech Republic, Poland, Hungary which won't recognize Kosovo travel document. This would be probably the end, too - none of them has agenda to push that further on other countries. Would be that just merely not accepting the passports or also backing from Kosovo recognition is even more guesses further.

Please do not take this one more, than just a possible scenario. All I want is to illustrate, a smaller country within Schengen of what seems to be a "small" importance should not to be underestimated.

Martin from SVK

pre 15 godina

Slovakia won't accept kosovo passeports but it still recongizes serbian passeports and UNMIK travel documents. These are legal ways how citizens from Kosovo will be able to visite Slovakia.

Fact that schengen visas for new kosovo passeports will be issued for all countries from Schengen with exception of Slovakia will probably mean, that this exception will be explicitly stated on the visa received. Of course Schengen area is the open area, so there are no controls when crossing borders from other schengen countries, like some preople here said. But if people carrying kosovo passeports only enter Slovakia, they will be here illegally. This means that if they're caught by police or other control in the inland, they will be probably expelled and their return might be forbidden for several years. This is what is means, nothing more, nothing less..

Adrian Gashi

pre 15 godina

Why worry so much, I can guarantee you that 99.99% of the Kosovars don't even know where Slovakia is on a map, let alone worry how they are ever going to go there, or worse, plot schemes how to sneak into that garden of Eden that is Slovakia. Don't worry people, and don't worry Slovakia: we don't want to go there.
I myself found a beautiful solution: In the map that I have, I painted Slovakia with dark blue, so it now resembles a big lake.

Srboslav

pre 15 godina

Ahmet, you wrote

"The irony is that this guy can not put five words in english to make out a sentence. Anyway Kosovars have no need to travel to Slovakia whatsoever."


I would like to say that the irony is that you, and all Kosovo albanians will have to listen to what this Slovakian guy have to say, he is in charge of part of yoúr "country", whether you like it or not, he makes the rules in Pec so don´t be so disrespectful to him, you have to listen to him.

Thankfully none of these clowns rule north of Kosovo or the enclaves there we have democraticly elected politicians.

Joe

pre 15 godina

Bruce,
As a Brit you see the people of the "continent" (I am using the British term) correctly. They thrive on making rules but they hardly or just partially observe them. Also some of these smaller operette-type countries like to be noticed from time to time by the outside world by taking contrary decisions. These inhabitants will also tell you what a great football team they had a long time ago or that this and this doctor or researcher just discouvered a miracle drug. In every 5-6 months somebody "discovers" something "major". He tries to sell it for fews weeks among credoulus people until his swindle is not profitable anymore. Anyway these decitions or news of earthshaking discoveries are just needed ego-boosters and serve mostly internal consumtion.

T Payne

pre 15 godina

To Ahmed Isufi

Let me quote you:

'The irony is that this guy can not put five words in english to make out a sentence.'

You have used 18 words and still can't, as you put it, 'make out a sentence'.

Alex

pre 15 godina

Ok, time to be realistic….
All this talk so far has been of immature type, like….my toy is better…not its mine.
How many people think US, UK, Germany,France, Italy, Japan, Australia, Canada and the rest will back up the recognition of Kosovo? Probably few…
Does Serbia (rational people) think they can get Kosovo back?....prabably few…
Kosovo Partition? Serbs would want to take N.Mitrovica (maybe)…Albanians (maybe) would say sure, we take Presevo, Bujanovac… (wonder the fate of the majority of Serbs in Kosovo who do not live in the north btw…), and internationals wouldn’t want that, as God knows what would happen with Macedonia, Bosnia and Montenegro… But who is better off from this? Practically,,,, none
And believes Russia defends international law? Hahaha…would wish to believe….they defend their interests, control the economy of Serbia via energy….and maybe transport too (JAT), and continue their trip to real property investments in Montenegro…..(soon Budva will host Putin presidential residencies there..)
Serbia sure can hurt Kosovo, but not without hurting themselves even more. By putting strong statements ‘we will never recognize’, they are getting bound to their commitment. Next elections they either have to flip-flop and enter the EU (with risk of loosing credibility/ elections to radicals) or stay out of the EU. But sure Albania by then would get in, which in the future…YES vote= recogniton of KS).

Olf

pre 15 godina

After some time they will accept Kosova passport. I understand them and I did not except them to recognise the new Kosova passport. Kosovar’s that I know had no plans to travel to Slovakia in the near future for any issue since whatever they need they can get it from Macedonia, Montenegro, Slovenia, Croatia, Germany etc, cheaper and better quality. However, respect to Slovak minister that feels this way about Kosova

PRN

pre 15 godina

Very silly for the Slovakian government. Reciprocation from Kosovo government imminent.

They need us as much as we need them. Bratislava has very small weight to impact anything about Kosovo. When push comes to shove not that they will recognise Kosovo independence but will also apologise for their actions so far...as well as grant high level autonomy to Hungarian minority...

Furthermore, this will put them in further trouble with Washington and Brusels, from they get the FOOD...

Washington and Brusels are in no hurry to pull Bratislava ears YET, but that time is going to come soon...

Slovakia and Serbia are both strongly opposed to giving high level autonomy to the Hungarian minority in their respective countries...BUT the time will come and the solotion will be found...

Stoning Rolle

pre 15 godina

I think this is a self-important action. What's the gain to harm private individuals? One can accept that some countries do not agree with the unilateral declaration of independence, but it can only be wrong to hinder traveling. This action is an attack on basic individual rights.
Even that this decision is legal by slowak law, it is ignorant to forbide young Serbs and K-Albanians to meet in Bratislava.

Luigi

pre 15 godina

This is interesting...
they find a hole in the Agreement?
A Schengen country will refuse the entry to a person with a schengen visa for an unlimited amount of time....
Very very interesting....
Could be a thing (if it would be considered legal) to do also in other cases....
Damn Slowaks they are so smart !!

louie

pre 15 godina

10% of population in Slovakia are Hungarians!
1.5 million Hungarians are in Romania!
So I understand that none of these countries above didn't recognise Kosovo as a country!
We shouldn't be mad at those countries,we shouldn't be mad at people from these countries!
I lived in Czech Republic for some time and met many Slovakians who were very friendly people.
I have a lot of friends who are married with Slovakian women!
They are very loyal and carring people.Compare to Czech(who consider themselves as Germans),Poles and the rest of the Eastern Europe,I find Slovaks the best to deal with!
So,in this case I won't be upset at all with these actions from Slovak Government,one thing they can't change is that Kosovo is the Newest Country in World and sooner rather then later they will realize that as well!!!
Gezuar,Ziveli and Na Zdravie!

Ahmet Isufi

pre 15 godina

Kosova should do the same and kick out Slovaks taking part in EULEX. A Slovak with name Dusan Jakov has been appointed as Chief adviser from EULEX to KP Regional Commander in Peja Region. The irony is that this guy can not put five words in english to make out a sentence. Anyway Kosovars have no need to travel to Slovakia whatsoever.

Jan Andersen, DK

pre 15 godina

On 1 August 2008 16:11, Luigi wrote:

"A Schengen country will refuse the entry to a person with a schengen visa for an unlimited amount of time...."

I am not a lawyer, I don't even play one, but I don't see the problem here. A visa says that person X is allowed entry. But how do identify person X? With identity papers, like a passport. But the passport is only as good as the authority that issued it, and (crucially) how much you trust that authority - in this case the new Kosovo government. If you suspect that the authorities are giving away passports left and right without proper controls and checks (or for a few dollars in brown envelopes) then the passport is useless for identification purposes, and the visa is useless, Schengen or not.

Ataman

pre 15 godina

Oh, just noticed, PRN: as usual, you got a host of recommendations very quickly. Please ask for some more - the more you get, the more we see who are the supporters... Thanks again for spanking yourself.

Srboslav

pre 15 godina

Ahmet, you wrote

"The irony is that this guy can not put five words in english to make out a sentence. Anyway Kosovars have no need to travel to Slovakia whatsoever."


I would like to say that the irony is that you, and all Kosovo albanians will have to listen to what this Slovakian guy have to say, he is in charge of part of yoúr "country", whether you like it or not, he makes the rules in Pec so don´t be so disrespectful to him, you have to listen to him.

Thankfully none of these clowns rule north of Kosovo or the enclaves there we have democraticly elected politicians.

Jovan

pre 15 godina

hey kid, it´s not about "harming private individuals", you should know that.

it´s about putting facts straight, and not accepting toy-passports.

no more, no less. you´ll learn to deal with it, many K-albanians already have serbian documents, anyway.

bmrusila

pre 15 godina

When Slovakia already decided not to recognise Kosovo why in the earth would accept passports from some imaginary “state” that is not recognised by the UN, yet according to the UNSC is still province of another state. Why would Slovakia now take any steps that would contradict or be in direct conflict to their decision? If Slovakia accepted these souvenir passports no one could take or relay on Slovakia seriously on any important issue. Slovakia is simply resolute in the terms of foreign policy, international law and fosters much of self-respect. Slovakian government is perfectly capable of running their affairs independently without fearing threats and pressure coming from the outside.

My deepest respect for taking such stand!

Ataman

pre 15 godina

Washington and Brusels are in no hurry to pull Bratislava ears YET, but that time is going to come soon...
(PRN, 1 August 2008 16:42)

Thank you very much, PRN to admit:

1) "friendly" relationship between countries of EU and the "government" in Pristina are the result of Washington and Brussels pulling their ears. Like from CNN yesterday

http://www.b92.net/eng/news/comments.php?nav_id=52342

It's always nice to see the truth surfacing finally. Great.

2) That you EXPECT, Washington would pull the ears of independent countries.

So much about the "western democracy" ideas being strong in Kosovo or Albania. You expect things which have nothing to do with democracy or international law.

3) Does it mean, there are precedents, when Washington did "pull the ears" of some independent countries and they are hypocrites when it comes to the ideas of Founding Fathers?

Otherwise - please take care about yourself. Hungarians in Serbia, Romania, Slovakia will take care about themself without Albanian support because that kind of support could become a very heavy baggage later. Thanks.

Ataman

pre 15 godina

Good point, Jan, this is probably correct.

There is one more issue with Schengen. Slovakia can (indirectly) push Hungary to call the recognition of UDI back. Schengen agreement does allow countries if they "see emergency issue" to "temporarily" re-install the border controls and other limitations.

Slovakia could say: "we do not trust the Pristina etc., etc., this is why we won't recognize the travel documents". Probably - indeed as you write they will back themself similar way. The same time they will say: "despite our ruling, there are cases of infiltration: we found people with Kosovo travel documents (and so on, so on) in Slovakia. To prevent this from happening we have to "close" our borders with Hungary and with Czech Republic."

Schengen accords do allow this (and it happened this year during EM'08 in Austria). That means, Czech Republic and Hungary has to chose: either they won't recognize these documents or they will suffer from Schengen border closure. Being between two fronts Hungary will probably chose the more pragmatic way. Czech Republic would be even easier to pursue. In Hungary there is indifference (at best) towards K-Albanians (even some reservation because of recent criminal activities), but frequent contacts with Hungarians in Slovakia and Serbia are pretty high on the popularity list.

I cannot predict, it will happen - but if yes, that would spell further disaster because Kosovo would be completely "cut off" on the land except Montenegro-Croatia-Bosnia-Croatia-Slovenia line. If there is a trouble with either Bosnia or Montenegro, things would look completely bad.

This is why "Schengen" + "Slovakia" potentially is at least as a bigger trouble as Russia or China.

Hermon

pre 15 godina

Could please someone explain to me how they are going to stop someone carrying an Kosova passport, when he enters from Austria to Slavakia. There are no borders. So practically Slovakia has to reconsider their Schengen status, which I dont think they will be so silly to jeopardize their achievments, because of Beograde.
Thats a game between puppies

Ataman

pre 15 godina

Few previous posters probably wrote before m writing was posted.

The importance of Slovakia is that it now has the excuse to "temporarily" shut down the Schengen borders as long as it's neighbors do not comply. Austria temporarily did shut down the Schengen borders for much lesser reason (European Soccer Championship in 2008).

From Albanian point of view Slovakia is bordering:

- Ukraine (not Schengen, does not recognize Kosovo)
- Poland (a "swinger" Schengen country, sympathetic towards Serbia, Slovakia
- Czech Republic (a "swinger" Schengen country, sympathetic towards Serbia, Slovakia)
- Austria (more firm pro-K-independence Schengen country, rather neutral for Serbia, Slovakia
- Hungary (a special case, Schengen country. Divided towards Serbia and A., has own minority in Serbia and Slovkia, more hostile towards Slovakia than towards Serbia.)

It is easy to see, Slovakia potentially can push both Poland and Czech Republic with the "Schengen-closure". Hungary - true to it's tradition can be pushed to re-woke the recognition of Kosovo-travel document if the other two (Czech and Poland) do. Austrian reaction is uncertain. Seeing it's minority being cut off, Hungary very likely to agree, just to open the borders again.

That means, we may have potentially three countries: Czech Republic, Poland, Hungary which won't recognize Kosovo travel document. This would be probably the end, too - none of them has agenda to push that further on other countries. Would be that just merely not accepting the passports or also backing from Kosovo recognition is even more guesses further.

Please do not take this one more, than just a possible scenario. All I want is to illustrate, a smaller country within Schengen of what seems to be a "small" importance should not to be underestimated.

Roger7

pre 15 godina

"Kosova should do the same and kick out Slovaks taking part in EULEX"

This type of chest thumping is rather humorous.

Sure, "Snake" Thaci will tell his western masters what to do.

Peter Sudyka

pre 15 godina

Adrian Gashi

You wish Kosovo was anywhere near Slovakia in terms of living standards and development, so I don't get why you are laughing at their significance as an Albanian.

Ahmet Isufi

"Kosova should do the same and kick out Slovaks taking part in EULEX."

Kosovo has no authority to do anything to any EU state, especially since they are putting food on your plate.

Ataman

pre 15 godina

I myself found a beautiful solution: In the map that I have, I painted Slovakia with dark blue, so it now resembles a big lake.
(Adrian Gashi, 2 August 2008 03:35)

Adrian, I can upload you some more blue color because you will need to paint Bosnia, too. I did not know, my prediction will come so soon.


http://www.b92.net/eng/news/comments.php?nav_id=52399

Jay

pre 15 godina

I don't know why B92 publishes this important articles anyway. I just can't find a Serbian media outlet in Serbian with some rational unbiased editorial news.
P.S. who cares if Slovakia accepts KS documents or not.

miri

pre 15 godina

Mr. Andersen.
The passport issue for Slovakia is just a political issue. There is no technical disability to trust these passports, even more provided that they have a schengen stamp on it. The authority that issued the schengen stamp already accepted those passports as valid and Slovakia is bound to respect this rule.
Having said this, Slovakia can continue to refuse to accept these passports but what is going to do to those that will cross into Slovakia from Czech Republic without border control at all?

USA

pre 15 godina

PRN,

You are too quick to assume that the US will continue to arm-twist other countries into supporting independence. US support will not last forever, especially once the US realizes that the illegal government in Kosovo cannot sustain itself without billions of international dollars being force fed into the economy. By the way, why are Kosovo albanians so worried about getting support from every single country in the world? Why would you care what Slovakia's position is regarding the UDI? Inferiority complex, perhaps?

Bruce

pre 15 godina

As far as i'm aware a Schengen visa does not guarantee the bearer entry to a schengen country, merely facilitates it. If the country believe you might abuse your porsition in the county (visa or not) they may still refuse you.
The question is more that in truth this will have no effect. Just fly to vienna and enter through Austria, then pass over the open land border to Slovakia and your in. Slovakia will not reintriduce border checks, it would harm their international relations too much. It will just mean Kosovo passport holders will have to choose carefully which country to enter through.
It all makes a mockery of Schengen of course, but as a Brit, it always seems like a joke as there are no common rules enforced, so what is the point.

Joe

pre 15 godina

Bruce,
As a Brit you see the people of the "continent" (I am using the British term) correctly. They thrive on making rules but they hardly or just partially observe them. Also some of these smaller operette-type countries like to be noticed from time to time by the outside world by taking contrary decisions. These inhabitants will also tell you what a great football team they had a long time ago or that this and this doctor or researcher just discouvered a miracle drug. In every 5-6 months somebody "discovers" something "major". He tries to sell it for fews weeks among credoulus people until his swindle is not profitable anymore. Anyway these decitions or news of earthshaking discoveries are just needed ego-boosters and serve mostly internal consumtion.

Martin from SVK

pre 15 godina

Slovakia won't accept kosovo passeports but it still recongizes serbian passeports and UNMIK travel documents. These are legal ways how citizens from Kosovo will be able to visite Slovakia.

Fact that schengen visas for new kosovo passeports will be issued for all countries from Schengen with exception of Slovakia will probably mean, that this exception will be explicitly stated on the visa received. Of course Schengen area is the open area, so there are no controls when crossing borders from other schengen countries, like some preople here said. But if people carrying kosovo passeports only enter Slovakia, they will be here illegally. This means that if they're caught by police or other control in the inland, they will be probably expelled and their return might be forbidden for several years. This is what is means, nothing more, nothing less..

Adrian Gashi

pre 15 godina

Why worry so much, I can guarantee you that 99.99% of the Kosovars don't even know where Slovakia is on a map, let alone worry how they are ever going to go there, or worse, plot schemes how to sneak into that garden of Eden that is Slovakia. Don't worry people, and don't worry Slovakia: we don't want to go there.
I myself found a beautiful solution: In the map that I have, I painted Slovakia with dark blue, so it now resembles a big lake.

BKK

pre 15 godina

Hermon,

have you been to any EU country? There is still a border control, the difference is you can go in with ID cards if you're from EU (excet UK where you need a passport).
There are still people checking at the port of entry.

You didn't really think there is noone there controling who crosses borders, did you?

T Payne

pre 15 godina

To Ahmed Isufi

Let me quote you:

'The irony is that this guy can not put five words in english to make out a sentence.'

You have used 18 words and still can't, as you put it, 'make out a sentence'.

Alex

pre 15 godina

Ok, time to be realistic….
All this talk so far has been of immature type, like….my toy is better…not its mine.
How many people think US, UK, Germany,France, Italy, Japan, Australia, Canada and the rest will back up the recognition of Kosovo? Probably few…
Does Serbia (rational people) think they can get Kosovo back?....prabably few…
Kosovo Partition? Serbs would want to take N.Mitrovica (maybe)…Albanians (maybe) would say sure, we take Presevo, Bujanovac… (wonder the fate of the majority of Serbs in Kosovo who do not live in the north btw…), and internationals wouldn’t want that, as God knows what would happen with Macedonia, Bosnia and Montenegro… But who is better off from this? Practically,,,, none
And believes Russia defends international law? Hahaha…would wish to believe….they defend their interests, control the economy of Serbia via energy….and maybe transport too (JAT), and continue their trip to real property investments in Montenegro…..(soon Budva will host Putin presidential residencies there..)
Serbia sure can hurt Kosovo, but not without hurting themselves even more. By putting strong statements ‘we will never recognize’, they are getting bound to their commitment. Next elections they either have to flip-flop and enter the EU (with risk of loosing credibility/ elections to radicals) or stay out of the EU. But sure Albania by then would get in, which in the future…YES vote= recogniton of KS).