USA doesnt care about China or India...you must have majored in philosophy or something, definately not economics....just do some research....
If you ever heard of the price of oil and the recent american recession? Why do you think oil is so high? BC of CHINA. its called increased demand, so unless americans would like to pay 12 dollars for a gallon of gas, they will appease china and india.
Adrian Gashi:
> And even if Serbia won the case at the ICJ, it still doesn't mean that the UNSC will endorse such a ruling - with three obvious vetoes waiting in line.
Have already commented on this before. For your benefit, repeating...
A permanent member of the UN SC can only use its veto if ICJ asks the SC to pass a resolution to 'enforce' one of its rulings, & 'enforcement' can only apply to a case involving a 'contentious issue' between states, not to a case where the UN general assembly asks for an 'advisory opinion'.
In this case, US, UK etc can jump up & down all they want waving their veto's - only effect will be perhaps a minor reduction in greenhouse gas emissions due to reduced use of air-conditioning at the UN.
Florin:
> It was precisely this utterly racist attitude etc.
Suggest you look up the meaning of the word 'racism' in the dictionary, & while you're at it, reflect on just who are the people on this thread whose comments reflect any degree of hatred.
"Kosovo is independent, and you cannot hold on it anymore"
Hi Joana!
I'm as big a fan of progressive politics and an EU-leaning Serbia as you'll ever find. Kudos for your one-world sentiments; maybe you've even spent a day or two in Kosovo, which seems to qualify folks these days as a Balkan expert.
However, your comment is woefully off. It betrays an ignorance of one of today's most systematic and egregious patterns of the denial human rights: the treatment of non-Albanians in Kosovo.
Here's what I suggest: renounce your current passport and take a Serbian one. Go live in an ethnic enclave in Kosovo, which is Europe's only apartheid state. (Apartheid?! Wow, a strong term. But true; when I was in Kosovo in 2001-2006 with a Slavic name... diplomatic credentials... and US passport... I was treated like a murderer. I was detained more than once, had my documents confiscated, etc.) Then, after a few years, get back on this page and talk about how great life is in Europe's newest paradise of human rights.
As an individual, and as an attorney, I've invested a lot of time in researching and protecting individuals and groups that have been divested of their rights. Kosovo divests its non-Albanian citizenry of its rights. Period. Until that is corrected, Serbia has every right to dispute Kosovo's status. It's a moral issue, just like the myriad moral issues that presumably make you interested in Kosovo in the first place.
Don't be a hypocrite. Albanian human rights are the same as non-Albanian human rights. I value both.
The only massacre in India was committed by the Islamist of the native Kashmiri Pandits. What is important is most of these Islamist are also forced converts to Islam. So close parallels to how the Serbs were cleansed out of Kososvo by the Islamists with rapes, and burning of Churches.
In any case majority of Indians know that the Serbs are being persecuted, and have an inherent sympathies for their cause. They see the Jihadist terror everyday from 30 bombs in single day to non stop lies spread by members of Ummah about Kashmir. As they do about Kosovo while ignoring the organ trading, mafia, and genocide of Serbs, Roma, and Gypsy.
"Don't be bitter because Greeks are offering free legal advise, Indians are offering support in ICJ, Russia won't let you into UN and other international organization , Spain is refusig to recognize you, Brazil won't play football with you, Muslims around the world won't support you, etc."
ahah well said
Prior to WWI, Serbs were told to forget about expanding into Austro-Hungarian Empire (Vojvodina, Bosnia, etc) yet look what happened.
The only way ICJ will rule in favour of the Albanians/US/EU over Kosovo is if it was heavily bribed or pressured which would not be a surprise at all.
BKK wrote:
"I don't think any Albanian is in any position to tell Serbs what to do, what to think or what to expect. "
It was precisely this utterly racist attitude that caused the Western world to support the plight of the Albanian people in Kosovo. The Serbs view themselves as a supreme race, who should rule all the inferior races around them, especially those less-than-human Albanians. It is so sad that so many Serbs actually share in this poisonous ideology. You will not win many political victories or friends in the West if you argue in that manner. Respect and you shall be respected. Hate and you shall be hated!
Even if all the countries in the world recognize Kosovo, it does not change the reality within Kosovo. Albanians on one side, Serbs on the other means ethnic trouble in Kosovo for a long time. Look at Bosnia, after 13 years of enforced Federation, the ethnicities have not reconciled, there is more danger of it collapsing once Karadzic starts to reveal the ugliness of ethnic war in Bosnia. How can Albanians and Serbs reconcile in Kosovo is beyond any of us. North Mitrovica continues to function like Republika Srpksa. Do the Albanians want this? No!! Who will be the first one to say "partition"? ICJ opinion, though not legally binding on anyone, will surely embarrass the EU. Even if they place any precondition on Serbia for joining the EU, it will look like a blackmail from the EU. Serbia may have technically lost Kosovo, but they will embarrass the world, the way China does with Taiwan. Kosovo will be in an economic limbo as well, since countries are investing in Serbia, Romania and even in Macedonia. Kosovo leaders have to really embrace the Kosovo Serbs south of the Ibar and make concessions to the northern Kosovo Serbs. Serbia can continue to pursue its legal and diplomatic means. It will be a long time before there will be any enforced peace between these two. But again look at Bosnia, are they really happy. Only future for the Balkans is a tight embrace by the EU and a speedy accession to the EU. But EU is not known for any bold moves, is it?
"Don't be bitter because Greeks are offering free legal advise, Indians are offering support in ICJ, Russia won't let you into UN and other international organization , Spain is refusig to recognize you, Brazil won't play football with you, Muslims around the world won't support you, etc. "
nicely written.
what I personally think was not emphasized enough is that India´s officials have explicitly spoken about INTERNATIONAL LAW. that´s the very best part of this information, since it is quite clear for a quite long time, that India is supporting Serbia on this issue, but the mentioning of international law in that regard is enormously helpful.
to the supporters of international law, truth, moral, dignity or to cut it short, Serbia: don´t worry about the poisonous comments of the Albanians, that´s the best sign that they feel how it is all going downhill for them.
@Mr.Matthew
regarding eu membership one things are my opinions and the other is real political development..
in my comment i was only referring at what some italian press has reported from the short non-official meeting in Rome between Jeremic and Frattini...
from Italy it has been suggested to mr.Vuk that Serbia will be helped in his eu bid only in case things develop in certain way regarding Kosovo...
that's it !
Why do some people keep saying Serbia must recognise Kosovo independence to join the EU? Its utter rubbish, THe only conditions apart from the normal ones other countries have to adhere to are to catch war criminals, not recognise Kosovo. I can clearly see from different media reports that the Kosovo leaders are getting concerned over Serbias pursuit of the ICJ. Lets face it th UN has not recognised Kosovo indpendence and by the looks of things both the UN and EU will work with dual Kosovo authorities. On the news from India this is poisitive, India is one of the fastest growing developing countries. ITs a Nuclear power and economically growing at a fast rate.
A few months before, the same people in this board were saying that EU countries would never recognize Kosovo. Well, today EU is at 20-7 in Kosovo's favor.
A few more months from now we'll be talking about Serbia and Russia recognizing it.
Funny how the Indian ambassador gives such comments on the same day that is announced that Indian Air is in the contest to buy JAT Airlines at a discount price. Will he speak differently, if the Serbian govt pulls a "Gazprom" on the Indians too?
Even if India supported Serbia, it doesn't mean that Serbia will win the case at the ICJ. And even if Serbia won the case at the ICJ, it still doesn't mean that the UNSC will endorse such a ruling - with three obvious vetoes waiting in line. So what we basically have here is a big hole in the water.
luigi:
While I do not expect there to be many 'reversals' (assuming that Serbia's case gets the go-ahead from the UN GA & there is a favourable outcome from the ICJ), I fully expect that new recognitions will all but dry up.
And this will happen very quickly.
As for Serbia's bid for the EU, that is still years away.
Olf:
The real problem not just with Kosovo, but in just about every part of the balkans is that people believe that an issue can be solved by the use of force.
Unfortunately, all that happens is the issue re-surfaces years down the track & history repeats.
And in the specific case of Kosovo, without reaching a true consensus with the serbs, all you are doing by pressing ahead regardless is to 'come back' full circle again.
I absolutely believe this to be the case, & I think that you probably do too.
Ahmet Isufi:
> All I can sya is that I can hardly wait for GA to convene in Septmeber and than I will crack up joking around with my bodies, with mockery and humiliation that Serbia will be faced with.
Without the EU money, KOSOVO GOES NO WHERE! About, criminals... I would like to see the Albanian leaders in the jail, instead of walking as marionettes through some countries, claiming millions of times that Kosovo is independent...
even if all the world would be against kosovo (without usa) that donst matter.do you really think the USA or Europe (GB,France,Germany) care about india or russia? lol also if ICJ says something about kosovos independence that wont change anything! i think thats all show from serbian politicans to show the serbian people "see here we work against kosovos independence" but they know very well that they cant take kosovo back that is absolutely unrealistic.
if serbs say hey only 43 countrys have recognized kosovos independence than i will ask they "how many countrys recognize croatia or slovenia after they declared independence after 6 months?" the answer is NO ONE! after 6 months they have won the first recognition from Germany
I welcome India's principled stand against unlawful land grabs and look forward to see continued relations between Serbia and some of the fastest growing economic powers in the world. I don't think a favorable ruling will reverse Kosovo's UDD, but it will certainly take leverage of sovereignty and a voice on the international stage away from them.
By the way Ahmet, I believe you meant to write "buddies", not "bodies". I didn't think you were the morbid type. :)
one country, two country three country four......This is just the beginning of the end of KosovO's false sense of independence. Stay strong Serbia, stay strong Serbian people and do not allow the US and Europe to bully your sovereign country….
I think we're all tired of the mantra ''Kosovo is Independent, accept it. I don't think any Albanian is in any position to tell Serbs what to do, what to think or what to expect. They're in even less of a position to advise whom Serbia will make diplomatic relations with stronger, and especially who will support her in her fight for justice.
Don't be bitter because Greeks are offering free legal advise, Indians are offering support in ICJ, Russia won't let you into UN and other international organization , Spain is refusig to recognize you, Brazil won't play football with you, Muslims around the world won't support you, etc.
Its not productive for you...or anyone else for that matter.
After reading the comments let me add an objective view, which I feel, will be the outcome of the UNSC meeting in September.
Serbia will get its vote, kosovo UDI will be declared illeagal, some countries may withdraw from recognising Kosovo. However, the US and most EU countries will not withdraw and a frozen conflict will be the outcome!!!
The losers in all this will be the people of Kosovo (Albanian and Serbs) who will see no investment in their country, increasing unemployment, worsening living standards and will stilol be thje poor country/province of Europe!!
The only way out of this potential disaster for the people of Kosovo if for Belgrade and Pristina to sit down together and come to an agreement about the final status of Kosovo. Only then will Kosovo be able to prosper and develop and thrive as a nation/region!!
“Anyway as it has been clearly said to mr.Jeremic if he wants to give up his Eu hopes please you are welcome !!
(luigi, 31 July 2008 15:00)”
Luigi, you claim constantly that no one is joining the EU anytime soon, so your comment makes no sense whatsoever coming from you of all people.
Besides, you know the vast majority (70%) of the Serbian people would not join the EU if it meant losing Kosovo. So it’s a reasonable political trade off for Vuk.
It is silly Mr.Jeremic to waste Serbian taxpayers money on stupidities.
You Mr.Jeremic are the one that know 100% that Kosovo is 100% lost cause. So why waste money, where they could be spent elsewhere or help the poor and unemployed in Serbia.
All I can sya is that I can hardly wait for GA to convene in Septmeber and than I will crack up joking around with my bodies, with mockery and humiliation that Serbia will be faced with.
All three Kashmir wars were started by Pakistan, recently insurgency is as a result of Islamic Pakistani terrorists and Afghan Talibans, so blaming India for atrocities (while indeed there have been human rights violations on both sides) when the other side started all the wars, is wrong.
All this comments makes me laugh ...particulary the one that is sure that 20 and more countries will retire the Kosovo recognition after a ICJ resolution in favour of Serbia...
Anyway as it has been clearly said to mr.Jeremic if he wants to give up his Eu hopes please you are welcome !!
keep dreaming guys...i can't believe what serb politicians are doing to their citizens...you should wake up and realise that Kosovo is independent, and you cannot hold on it anymore...you should learn to distance yourself from war criminals and accept that when you cause masacres on innocents, you will pay a price, and that's what Serbia has done...Kosovo is Independent, and this is how it is going to be as long as the most civilised and developed countries in the world have recognised them! GO KOSOVO!
This is going to send Serbia back for some years and that is not going to help Serbia prosper at all. This means more trouble for those in Serbia and Kosova.
Nikola
I kudos you for the word ” an internationalist, modern and democratic Serbia is seeking help from all corners of the world. Good job Serbia and keep fighting for core international, democratic and yes, European principals that most of our friends in the EU have long forgotten.” Only if you meant it would be really nice.
Guys, there is no way back. Stop encouraging yourselves that Serbian officials are doing a good job or something similar. Don’t you see that you are wasting your time. Not even Serbs believe in what you are saying.
This is good to hear from an old friend, India. We have the full support of the BRIC countries (Brazil, Russia, India, China), which are the fastest growing economies in the world. Not too shabby.
thanks to india, thanks to jeremic (the only member of ds with brain).
dss should try to get jeremic a member of a serbian party and out of ds. that shouldn´t be hard, if you bear in mind tadic problem with any serious challenger within ds.
Serbia ! You have a lot of support round the world and several countries are now getting sweat about the ICJ. According to diplomats that I know, Serbia will have a 75% chance to win and that will be a disaster for some that already have recognized Kosovo. IF the outcome in ICJ is in favour for Serbia, about 20-25 of the countries that have recognized Kosovo will redraw their recognition. Wait and see.
This is excellent news.. an internationalist, modern and democratic Serbia is seeking help from all corners of the world. Good job Serbia and keep fighting for core international, democratic and yes, European principals that most of our friends in the EU have long forgotten.
Serbia ! You have a lot of support round the world and several countries are now getting sweat about the ICJ. According to diplomats that I know, Serbia will have a 75% chance to win and that will be a disaster for some that already have recognized Kosovo. IF the outcome in ICJ is in favour for Serbia, about 20-25 of the countries that have recognized Kosovo will redraw their recognition. Wait and see.
This is good to hear from an old friend, India. We have the full support of the BRIC countries (Brazil, Russia, India, China), which are the fastest growing economies in the world. Not too shabby.
This is excellent news.. an internationalist, modern and democratic Serbia is seeking help from all corners of the world. Good job Serbia and keep fighting for core international, democratic and yes, European principals that most of our friends in the EU have long forgotten.
It is silly Mr.Jeremic to waste Serbian taxpayers money on stupidities.
You Mr.Jeremic are the one that know 100% that Kosovo is 100% lost cause. So why waste money, where they could be spent elsewhere or help the poor and unemployed in Serbia.
thanks to india, thanks to jeremic (the only member of ds with brain).
dss should try to get jeremic a member of a serbian party and out of ds. that shouldn´t be hard, if you bear in mind tadic problem with any serious challenger within ds.
one country, two country three country four......This is just the beginning of the end of KosovO's false sense of independence. Stay strong Serbia, stay strong Serbian people and do not allow the US and Europe to bully your sovereign country….
I think we're all tired of the mantra ''Kosovo is Independent, accept it. I don't think any Albanian is in any position to tell Serbs what to do, what to think or what to expect. They're in even less of a position to advise whom Serbia will make diplomatic relations with stronger, and especially who will support her in her fight for justice.
Don't be bitter because Greeks are offering free legal advise, Indians are offering support in ICJ, Russia won't let you into UN and other international organization , Spain is refusig to recognize you, Brazil won't play football with you, Muslims around the world won't support you, etc.
Its not productive for you...or anyone else for that matter.
Without the EU money, KOSOVO GOES NO WHERE! About, criminals... I would like to see the Albanian leaders in the jail, instead of walking as marionettes through some countries, claiming millions of times that Kosovo is independent...
"Kosovo is independent, and you cannot hold on it anymore"
Hi Joana!
I'm as big a fan of progressive politics and an EU-leaning Serbia as you'll ever find. Kudos for your one-world sentiments; maybe you've even spent a day or two in Kosovo, which seems to qualify folks these days as a Balkan expert.
However, your comment is woefully off. It betrays an ignorance of one of today's most systematic and egregious patterns of the denial human rights: the treatment of non-Albanians in Kosovo.
Here's what I suggest: renounce your current passport and take a Serbian one. Go live in an ethnic enclave in Kosovo, which is Europe's only apartheid state. (Apartheid?! Wow, a strong term. But true; when I was in Kosovo in 2001-2006 with a Slavic name... diplomatic credentials... and US passport... I was treated like a murderer. I was detained more than once, had my documents confiscated, etc.) Then, after a few years, get back on this page and talk about how great life is in Europe's newest paradise of human rights.
As an individual, and as an attorney, I've invested a lot of time in researching and protecting individuals and groups that have been divested of their rights. Kosovo divests its non-Albanian citizenry of its rights. Period. Until that is corrected, Serbia has every right to dispute Kosovo's status. It's a moral issue, just like the myriad moral issues that presumably make you interested in Kosovo in the first place.
Don't be a hypocrite. Albanian human rights are the same as non-Albanian human rights. I value both.
The only massacre in India was committed by the Islamist of the native Kashmiri Pandits. What is important is most of these Islamist are also forced converts to Islam. So close parallels to how the Serbs were cleansed out of Kososvo by the Islamists with rapes, and burning of Churches.
In any case majority of Indians know that the Serbs are being persecuted, and have an inherent sympathies for their cause. They see the Jihadist terror everyday from 30 bombs in single day to non stop lies spread by members of Ummah about Kashmir. As they do about Kosovo while ignoring the organ trading, mafia, and genocide of Serbs, Roma, and Gypsy.
“Anyway as it has been clearly said to mr.Jeremic if he wants to give up his Eu hopes please you are welcome !!
(luigi, 31 July 2008 15:00)”
Luigi, you claim constantly that no one is joining the EU anytime soon, so your comment makes no sense whatsoever coming from you of all people.
Besides, you know the vast majority (70%) of the Serbian people would not join the EU if it meant losing Kosovo. So it’s a reasonable political trade off for Vuk.
I welcome India's principled stand against unlawful land grabs and look forward to see continued relations between Serbia and some of the fastest growing economic powers in the world. I don't think a favorable ruling will reverse Kosovo's UDD, but it will certainly take leverage of sovereignty and a voice on the international stage away from them.
By the way Ahmet, I believe you meant to write "buddies", not "bodies". I didn't think you were the morbid type. :)
After reading the comments let me add an objective view, which I feel, will be the outcome of the UNSC meeting in September.
Serbia will get its vote, kosovo UDI will be declared illeagal, some countries may withdraw from recognising Kosovo. However, the US and most EU countries will not withdraw and a frozen conflict will be the outcome!!!
The losers in all this will be the people of Kosovo (Albanian and Serbs) who will see no investment in their country, increasing unemployment, worsening living standards and will stilol be thje poor country/province of Europe!!
The only way out of this potential disaster for the people of Kosovo if for Belgrade and Pristina to sit down together and come to an agreement about the final status of Kosovo. Only then will Kosovo be able to prosper and develop and thrive as a nation/region!!
"Don't be bitter because Greeks are offering free legal advise, Indians are offering support in ICJ, Russia won't let you into UN and other international organization , Spain is refusig to recognize you, Brazil won't play football with you, Muslims around the world won't support you, etc. "
nicely written.
what I personally think was not emphasized enough is that India´s officials have explicitly spoken about INTERNATIONAL LAW. that´s the very best part of this information, since it is quite clear for a quite long time, that India is supporting Serbia on this issue, but the mentioning of international law in that regard is enormously helpful.
to the supporters of international law, truth, moral, dignity or to cut it short, Serbia: don´t worry about the poisonous comments of the Albanians, that´s the best sign that they feel how it is all going downhill for them.
All three Kashmir wars were started by Pakistan, recently insurgency is as a result of Islamic Pakistani terrorists and Afghan Talibans, so blaming India for atrocities (while indeed there have been human rights violations on both sides) when the other side started all the wars, is wrong.
USA doesnt care about China or India...you must have majored in philosophy or something, definately not economics....just do some research....
If you ever heard of the price of oil and the recent american recession? Why do you think oil is so high? BC of CHINA. its called increased demand, so unless americans would like to pay 12 dollars for a gallon of gas, they will appease china and india.
luigi:
While I do not expect there to be many 'reversals' (assuming that Serbia's case gets the go-ahead from the UN GA & there is a favourable outcome from the ICJ), I fully expect that new recognitions will all but dry up.
And this will happen very quickly.
As for Serbia's bid for the EU, that is still years away.
Olf:
The real problem not just with Kosovo, but in just about every part of the balkans is that people believe that an issue can be solved by the use of force.
Unfortunately, all that happens is the issue re-surfaces years down the track & history repeats.
And in the specific case of Kosovo, without reaching a true consensus with the serbs, all you are doing by pressing ahead regardless is to 'come back' full circle again.
I absolutely believe this to be the case, & I think that you probably do too.
Ahmet Isufi:
> All I can sya is that I can hardly wait for GA to convene in Septmeber and than I will crack up joking around with my bodies, with mockery and humiliation that Serbia will be faced with.
This is going to send Serbia back for some years and that is not going to help Serbia prosper at all. This means more trouble for those in Serbia and Kosova.
Nikola
I kudos you for the word ” an internationalist, modern and democratic Serbia is seeking help from all corners of the world. Good job Serbia and keep fighting for core international, democratic and yes, European principals that most of our friends in the EU have long forgotten.” Only if you meant it would be really nice.
Guys, there is no way back. Stop encouraging yourselves that Serbian officials are doing a good job or something similar. Don’t you see that you are wasting your time. Not even Serbs believe in what you are saying.
Why do some people keep saying Serbia must recognise Kosovo independence to join the EU? Its utter rubbish, THe only conditions apart from the normal ones other countries have to adhere to are to catch war criminals, not recognise Kosovo. I can clearly see from different media reports that the Kosovo leaders are getting concerned over Serbias pursuit of the ICJ. Lets face it th UN has not recognised Kosovo indpendence and by the looks of things both the UN and EU will work with dual Kosovo authorities. On the news from India this is poisitive, India is one of the fastest growing developing countries. ITs a Nuclear power and economically growing at a fast rate.
Adrian Gashi:
> And even if Serbia won the case at the ICJ, it still doesn't mean that the UNSC will endorse such a ruling - with three obvious vetoes waiting in line.
Have already commented on this before. For your benefit, repeating...
A permanent member of the UN SC can only use its veto if ICJ asks the SC to pass a resolution to 'enforce' one of its rulings, & 'enforcement' can only apply to a case involving a 'contentious issue' between states, not to a case where the UN general assembly asks for an 'advisory opinion'.
In this case, US, UK etc can jump up & down all they want waving their veto's - only effect will be perhaps a minor reduction in greenhouse gas emissions due to reduced use of air-conditioning at the UN.
Florin:
> It was precisely this utterly racist attitude etc.
Suggest you look up the meaning of the word 'racism' in the dictionary, & while you're at it, reflect on just who are the people on this thread whose comments reflect any degree of hatred.
keep dreaming guys...i can't believe what serb politicians are doing to their citizens...you should wake up and realise that Kosovo is independent, and you cannot hold on it anymore...you should learn to distance yourself from war criminals and accept that when you cause masacres on innocents, you will pay a price, and that's what Serbia has done...Kosovo is Independent, and this is how it is going to be as long as the most civilised and developed countries in the world have recognised them! GO KOSOVO!
All I can sya is that I can hardly wait for GA to convene in Septmeber and than I will crack up joking around with my bodies, with mockery and humiliation that Serbia will be faced with.
Even if all the countries in the world recognize Kosovo, it does not change the reality within Kosovo. Albanians on one side, Serbs on the other means ethnic trouble in Kosovo for a long time. Look at Bosnia, after 13 years of enforced Federation, the ethnicities have not reconciled, there is more danger of it collapsing once Karadzic starts to reveal the ugliness of ethnic war in Bosnia. How can Albanians and Serbs reconcile in Kosovo is beyond any of us. North Mitrovica continues to function like Republika Srpksa. Do the Albanians want this? No!! Who will be the first one to say "partition"? ICJ opinion, though not legally binding on anyone, will surely embarrass the EU. Even if they place any precondition on Serbia for joining the EU, it will look like a blackmail from the EU. Serbia may have technically lost Kosovo, but they will embarrass the world, the way China does with Taiwan. Kosovo will be in an economic limbo as well, since countries are investing in Serbia, Romania and even in Macedonia. Kosovo leaders have to really embrace the Kosovo Serbs south of the Ibar and make concessions to the northern Kosovo Serbs. Serbia can continue to pursue its legal and diplomatic means. It will be a long time before there will be any enforced peace between these two. But again look at Bosnia, are they really happy. Only future for the Balkans is a tight embrace by the EU and a speedy accession to the EU. But EU is not known for any bold moves, is it?
"Don't be bitter because Greeks are offering free legal advise, Indians are offering support in ICJ, Russia won't let you into UN and other international organization , Spain is refusig to recognize you, Brazil won't play football with you, Muslims around the world won't support you, etc."
ahah well said
Prior to WWI, Serbs were told to forget about expanding into Austro-Hungarian Empire (Vojvodina, Bosnia, etc) yet look what happened.
The only way ICJ will rule in favour of the Albanians/US/EU over Kosovo is if it was heavily bribed or pressured which would not be a surprise at all.
All this comments makes me laugh ...particulary the one that is sure that 20 and more countries will retire the Kosovo recognition after a ICJ resolution in favour of Serbia...
Anyway as it has been clearly said to mr.Jeremic if he wants to give up his Eu hopes please you are welcome !!
even if all the world would be against kosovo (without usa) that donst matter.do you really think the USA or Europe (GB,France,Germany) care about india or russia? lol also if ICJ says something about kosovos independence that wont change anything! i think thats all show from serbian politicans to show the serbian people "see here we work against kosovos independence" but they know very well that they cant take kosovo back that is absolutely unrealistic.
if serbs say hey only 43 countrys have recognized kosovos independence than i will ask they "how many countrys recognize croatia or slovenia after they declared independence after 6 months?" the answer is NO ONE! after 6 months they have won the first recognition from Germany
BKK wrote:
"I don't think any Albanian is in any position to tell Serbs what to do, what to think or what to expect. "
It was precisely this utterly racist attitude that caused the Western world to support the plight of the Albanian people in Kosovo. The Serbs view themselves as a supreme race, who should rule all the inferior races around them, especially those less-than-human Albanians. It is so sad that so many Serbs actually share in this poisonous ideology. You will not win many political victories or friends in the West if you argue in that manner. Respect and you shall be respected. Hate and you shall be hated!
A few months before, the same people in this board were saying that EU countries would never recognize Kosovo. Well, today EU is at 20-7 in Kosovo's favor.
A few more months from now we'll be talking about Serbia and Russia recognizing it.
Funny how the Indian ambassador gives such comments on the same day that is announced that Indian Air is in the contest to buy JAT Airlines at a discount price. Will he speak differently, if the Serbian govt pulls a "Gazprom" on the Indians too?
Even if India supported Serbia, it doesn't mean that Serbia will win the case at the ICJ. And even if Serbia won the case at the ICJ, it still doesn't mean that the UNSC will endorse such a ruling - with three obvious vetoes waiting in line. So what we basically have here is a big hole in the water.
@Mr.Matthew
regarding eu membership one things are my opinions and the other is real political development..
in my comment i was only referring at what some italian press has reported from the short non-official meeting in Rome between Jeremic and Frattini...
from Italy it has been suggested to mr.Vuk that Serbia will be helped in his eu bid only in case things develop in certain way regarding Kosovo...
that's it !
keep dreaming guys...i can't believe what serb politicians are doing to their citizens...you should wake up and realise that Kosovo is independent, and you cannot hold on it anymore...you should learn to distance yourself from war criminals and accept that when you cause masacres on innocents, you will pay a price, and that's what Serbia has done...Kosovo is Independent, and this is how it is going to be as long as the most civilised and developed countries in the world have recognised them! GO KOSOVO!
All I can sya is that I can hardly wait for GA to convene in Septmeber and than I will crack up joking around with my bodies, with mockery and humiliation that Serbia will be faced with.
All this comments makes me laugh ...particulary the one that is sure that 20 and more countries will retire the Kosovo recognition after a ICJ resolution in favour of Serbia...
Anyway as it has been clearly said to mr.Jeremic if he wants to give up his Eu hopes please you are welcome !!
It is silly Mr.Jeremic to waste Serbian taxpayers money on stupidities.
You Mr.Jeremic are the one that know 100% that Kosovo is 100% lost cause. So why waste money, where they could be spent elsewhere or help the poor and unemployed in Serbia.
This is going to send Serbia back for some years and that is not going to help Serbia prosper at all. This means more trouble for those in Serbia and Kosova.
Nikola
I kudos you for the word ” an internationalist, modern and democratic Serbia is seeking help from all corners of the world. Good job Serbia and keep fighting for core international, democratic and yes, European principals that most of our friends in the EU have long forgotten.” Only if you meant it would be really nice.
Guys, there is no way back. Stop encouraging yourselves that Serbian officials are doing a good job or something similar. Don’t you see that you are wasting your time. Not even Serbs believe in what you are saying.
A few months before, the same people in this board were saying that EU countries would never recognize Kosovo. Well, today EU is at 20-7 in Kosovo's favor.
A few more months from now we'll be talking about Serbia and Russia recognizing it.
even if all the world would be against kosovo (without usa) that donst matter.do you really think the USA or Europe (GB,France,Germany) care about india or russia? lol also if ICJ says something about kosovos independence that wont change anything! i think thats all show from serbian politicans to show the serbian people "see here we work against kosovos independence" but they know very well that they cant take kosovo back that is absolutely unrealistic.
if serbs say hey only 43 countrys have recognized kosovos independence than i will ask they "how many countrys recognize croatia or slovenia after they declared independence after 6 months?" the answer is NO ONE! after 6 months they have won the first recognition from Germany
BKK wrote:
"I don't think any Albanian is in any position to tell Serbs what to do, what to think or what to expect. "
It was precisely this utterly racist attitude that caused the Western world to support the plight of the Albanian people in Kosovo. The Serbs view themselves as a supreme race, who should rule all the inferior races around them, especially those less-than-human Albanians. It is so sad that so many Serbs actually share in this poisonous ideology. You will not win many political victories or friends in the West if you argue in that manner. Respect and you shall be respected. Hate and you shall be hated!
This is excellent news.. an internationalist, modern and democratic Serbia is seeking help from all corners of the world. Good job Serbia and keep fighting for core international, democratic and yes, European principals that most of our friends in the EU have long forgotten.
Serbia ! You have a lot of support round the world and several countries are now getting sweat about the ICJ. According to diplomats that I know, Serbia will have a 75% chance to win and that will be a disaster for some that already have recognized Kosovo. IF the outcome in ICJ is in favour for Serbia, about 20-25 of the countries that have recognized Kosovo will redraw their recognition. Wait and see.
Funny how the Indian ambassador gives such comments on the same day that is announced that Indian Air is in the contest to buy JAT Airlines at a discount price. Will he speak differently, if the Serbian govt pulls a "Gazprom" on the Indians too?
Even if India supported Serbia, it doesn't mean that Serbia will win the case at the ICJ. And even if Serbia won the case at the ICJ, it still doesn't mean that the UNSC will endorse such a ruling - with three obvious vetoes waiting in line. So what we basically have here is a big hole in the water.
thanks to india, thanks to jeremic (the only member of ds with brain).
dss should try to get jeremic a member of a serbian party and out of ds. that shouldn´t be hard, if you bear in mind tadic problem with any serious challenger within ds.
This is good to hear from an old friend, India. We have the full support of the BRIC countries (Brazil, Russia, India, China), which are the fastest growing economies in the world. Not too shabby.
After reading the comments let me add an objective view, which I feel, will be the outcome of the UNSC meeting in September.
Serbia will get its vote, kosovo UDI will be declared illeagal, some countries may withdraw from recognising Kosovo. However, the US and most EU countries will not withdraw and a frozen conflict will be the outcome!!!
The losers in all this will be the people of Kosovo (Albanian and Serbs) who will see no investment in their country, increasing unemployment, worsening living standards and will stilol be thje poor country/province of Europe!!
The only way out of this potential disaster for the people of Kosovo if for Belgrade and Pristina to sit down together and come to an agreement about the final status of Kosovo. Only then will Kosovo be able to prosper and develop and thrive as a nation/region!!
I think we're all tired of the mantra ''Kosovo is Independent, accept it. I don't think any Albanian is in any position to tell Serbs what to do, what to think or what to expect. They're in even less of a position to advise whom Serbia will make diplomatic relations with stronger, and especially who will support her in her fight for justice.
Don't be bitter because Greeks are offering free legal advise, Indians are offering support in ICJ, Russia won't let you into UN and other international organization , Spain is refusig to recognize you, Brazil won't play football with you, Muslims around the world won't support you, etc.
Its not productive for you...or anyone else for that matter.
luigi:
While I do not expect there to be many 'reversals' (assuming that Serbia's case gets the go-ahead from the UN GA & there is a favourable outcome from the ICJ), I fully expect that new recognitions will all but dry up.
And this will happen very quickly.
As for Serbia's bid for the EU, that is still years away.
Olf:
The real problem not just with Kosovo, but in just about every part of the balkans is that people believe that an issue can be solved by the use of force.
Unfortunately, all that happens is the issue re-surfaces years down the track & history repeats.
And in the specific case of Kosovo, without reaching a true consensus with the serbs, all you are doing by pressing ahead regardless is to 'come back' full circle again.
I absolutely believe this to be the case, & I think that you probably do too.
Ahmet Isufi:
> All I can sya is that I can hardly wait for GA to convene in Septmeber and than I will crack up joking around with my bodies, with mockery and humiliation that Serbia will be faced with.
Without the EU money, KOSOVO GOES NO WHERE! About, criminals... I would like to see the Albanian leaders in the jail, instead of walking as marionettes through some countries, claiming millions of times that Kosovo is independent...
Why do some people keep saying Serbia must recognise Kosovo independence to join the EU? Its utter rubbish, THe only conditions apart from the normal ones other countries have to adhere to are to catch war criminals, not recognise Kosovo. I can clearly see from different media reports that the Kosovo leaders are getting concerned over Serbias pursuit of the ICJ. Lets face it th UN has not recognised Kosovo indpendence and by the looks of things both the UN and EU will work with dual Kosovo authorities. On the news from India this is poisitive, India is one of the fastest growing developing countries. ITs a Nuclear power and economically growing at a fast rate.
"Don't be bitter because Greeks are offering free legal advise, Indians are offering support in ICJ, Russia won't let you into UN and other international organization , Spain is refusig to recognize you, Brazil won't play football with you, Muslims around the world won't support you, etc. "
nicely written.
what I personally think was not emphasized enough is that India´s officials have explicitly spoken about INTERNATIONAL LAW. that´s the very best part of this information, since it is quite clear for a quite long time, that India is supporting Serbia on this issue, but the mentioning of international law in that regard is enormously helpful.
to the supporters of international law, truth, moral, dignity or to cut it short, Serbia: don´t worry about the poisonous comments of the Albanians, that´s the best sign that they feel how it is all going downhill for them.
@Mr.Matthew
regarding eu membership one things are my opinions and the other is real political development..
in my comment i was only referring at what some italian press has reported from the short non-official meeting in Rome between Jeremic and Frattini...
from Italy it has been suggested to mr.Vuk that Serbia will be helped in his eu bid only in case things develop in certain way regarding Kosovo...
that's it !
Even if all the countries in the world recognize Kosovo, it does not change the reality within Kosovo. Albanians on one side, Serbs on the other means ethnic trouble in Kosovo for a long time. Look at Bosnia, after 13 years of enforced Federation, the ethnicities have not reconciled, there is more danger of it collapsing once Karadzic starts to reveal the ugliness of ethnic war in Bosnia. How can Albanians and Serbs reconcile in Kosovo is beyond any of us. North Mitrovica continues to function like Republika Srpksa. Do the Albanians want this? No!! Who will be the first one to say "partition"? ICJ opinion, though not legally binding on anyone, will surely embarrass the EU. Even if they place any precondition on Serbia for joining the EU, it will look like a blackmail from the EU. Serbia may have technically lost Kosovo, but they will embarrass the world, the way China does with Taiwan. Kosovo will be in an economic limbo as well, since countries are investing in Serbia, Romania and even in Macedonia. Kosovo leaders have to really embrace the Kosovo Serbs south of the Ibar and make concessions to the northern Kosovo Serbs. Serbia can continue to pursue its legal and diplomatic means. It will be a long time before there will be any enforced peace between these two. But again look at Bosnia, are they really happy. Only future for the Balkans is a tight embrace by the EU and a speedy accession to the EU. But EU is not known for any bold moves, is it?
All three Kashmir wars were started by Pakistan, recently insurgency is as a result of Islamic Pakistani terrorists and Afghan Talibans, so blaming India for atrocities (while indeed there have been human rights violations on both sides) when the other side started all the wars, is wrong.
one country, two country three country four......This is just the beginning of the end of KosovO's false sense of independence. Stay strong Serbia, stay strong Serbian people and do not allow the US and Europe to bully your sovereign country….
“Anyway as it has been clearly said to mr.Jeremic if he wants to give up his Eu hopes please you are welcome !!
(luigi, 31 July 2008 15:00)”
Luigi, you claim constantly that no one is joining the EU anytime soon, so your comment makes no sense whatsoever coming from you of all people.
Besides, you know the vast majority (70%) of the Serbian people would not join the EU if it meant losing Kosovo. So it’s a reasonable political trade off for Vuk.
I welcome India's principled stand against unlawful land grabs and look forward to see continued relations between Serbia and some of the fastest growing economic powers in the world. I don't think a favorable ruling will reverse Kosovo's UDD, but it will certainly take leverage of sovereignty and a voice on the international stage away from them.
By the way Ahmet, I believe you meant to write "buddies", not "bodies". I didn't think you were the morbid type. :)
"Don't be bitter because Greeks are offering free legal advise, Indians are offering support in ICJ, Russia won't let you into UN and other international organization , Spain is refusig to recognize you, Brazil won't play football with you, Muslims around the world won't support you, etc."
ahah well said
Prior to WWI, Serbs were told to forget about expanding into Austro-Hungarian Empire (Vojvodina, Bosnia, etc) yet look what happened.
The only way ICJ will rule in favour of the Albanians/US/EU over Kosovo is if it was heavily bribed or pressured which would not be a surprise at all.
The only massacre in India was committed by the Islamist of the native Kashmiri Pandits. What is important is most of these Islamist are also forced converts to Islam. So close parallels to how the Serbs were cleansed out of Kososvo by the Islamists with rapes, and burning of Churches.
In any case majority of Indians know that the Serbs are being persecuted, and have an inherent sympathies for their cause. They see the Jihadist terror everyday from 30 bombs in single day to non stop lies spread by members of Ummah about Kashmir. As they do about Kosovo while ignoring the organ trading, mafia, and genocide of Serbs, Roma, and Gypsy.
"Kosovo is independent, and you cannot hold on it anymore"
Hi Joana!
I'm as big a fan of progressive politics and an EU-leaning Serbia as you'll ever find. Kudos for your one-world sentiments; maybe you've even spent a day or two in Kosovo, which seems to qualify folks these days as a Balkan expert.
However, your comment is woefully off. It betrays an ignorance of one of today's most systematic and egregious patterns of the denial human rights: the treatment of non-Albanians in Kosovo.
Here's what I suggest: renounce your current passport and take a Serbian one. Go live in an ethnic enclave in Kosovo, which is Europe's only apartheid state. (Apartheid?! Wow, a strong term. But true; when I was in Kosovo in 2001-2006 with a Slavic name... diplomatic credentials... and US passport... I was treated like a murderer. I was detained more than once, had my documents confiscated, etc.) Then, after a few years, get back on this page and talk about how great life is in Europe's newest paradise of human rights.
As an individual, and as an attorney, I've invested a lot of time in researching and protecting individuals and groups that have been divested of their rights. Kosovo divests its non-Albanian citizenry of its rights. Period. Until that is corrected, Serbia has every right to dispute Kosovo's status. It's a moral issue, just like the myriad moral issues that presumably make you interested in Kosovo in the first place.
Don't be a hypocrite. Albanian human rights are the same as non-Albanian human rights. I value both.
Adrian Gashi:
> And even if Serbia won the case at the ICJ, it still doesn't mean that the UNSC will endorse such a ruling - with three obvious vetoes waiting in line.
Have already commented on this before. For your benefit, repeating...
A permanent member of the UN SC can only use its veto if ICJ asks the SC to pass a resolution to 'enforce' one of its rulings, & 'enforcement' can only apply to a case involving a 'contentious issue' between states, not to a case where the UN general assembly asks for an 'advisory opinion'.
In this case, US, UK etc can jump up & down all they want waving their veto's - only effect will be perhaps a minor reduction in greenhouse gas emissions due to reduced use of air-conditioning at the UN.
Florin:
> It was precisely this utterly racist attitude etc.
Suggest you look up the meaning of the word 'racism' in the dictionary, & while you're at it, reflect on just who are the people on this thread whose comments reflect any degree of hatred.
USA doesnt care about China or India...you must have majored in philosophy or something, definately not economics....just do some research....
If you ever heard of the price of oil and the recent american recession? Why do you think oil is so high? BC of CHINA. its called increased demand, so unless americans would like to pay 12 dollars for a gallon of gas, they will appease china and india.
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