Karadžić extradited to Hague Tribunal

Another political show trial meant to put Serbia in a bad light and accuse the victims of being aggressors, in order to make the real aggressors escape justice. All this talk of 'genocide' sickens me, while the REAL genocide happened with the complete ethnic cleansing of Serbs from Krajina, and the emptying of Sarajevo of all Serbs.
Natasa Kandic and Richard Holbrooke are happy. Some ignorant self-hating Serbs are happy too.
While Americans commit war crimes all over the world, use napalm on civilians (Vietnam), not allow their soldiers to face any kind of international war crimes court, they have the gall to accuse others of 'war crimes'. What a sick joke that is.
Their strategy is to focus on the revenge killings in Srebrenica due to Nasir Oric's murder, rape, mutilation of 3,500 Serbian civilians in the area. The same Nasir Oric who the Hague presumed innocent, and who used the Srebrenica 'safe zone' to attack Serbian villages from. Notice that the US propogandists do not mention a peep about Krajina, which is REAL genocide which they sponsored - 500 years of history wiped out in one weekend.
I would not want to be Boris Tadic, who will probably need American body guards for the rest of his life (I doubt he can trust Serbs to do it), just like Karzai does.
It's called a banana republic people. Let's hope the next election ejects this minion, and the patriots are back where they belong.
The rally last night was large and successful, and was not even paid for - the way that Madeline Albright paid millions for the Otpor protests. And the protesters did not even destroy and loot the parliament building the way the Otpor hooligans did.

I say to all patriots out there to keep the faith and keep up the fight for truth and justice. This banana republic government will not last, and God willing, Tadic and Dacic will be gone from the scene soon.
Cheers!!

Ah, The Hague...the pinacle of modern justice system where Dr. Karadzic will be judged by the butchers of Vietnam and the butchers of Iraq, killers of El Salvador and Afghanistan, murderers of Hiroshima and Nagasaki and rapists of Africa and who will be holding the 'holier-than-thou' at Serbs.

This would be amusing if it wasn't so tragic.

Peter Sudyka,

Oh right, I forgot. Certain world powers non deliberately used agant orange on civilian populations in Viet Nam. They also accedentaly bombed and shot civilians in Iraq and not to mention humuliated the prisoners, and complitely due to lack of awareness that they sponsored years upon years of bloody civil wars in South America over cocaine, coffee and bananas...and all in the last 60 years or so.

Evil Serbs however, killed everyone in Former Yugoslavia, which official statistic number around 2 billion people and kidnapped another 1.5 billion and ate their babies...just because.

It is therefore clear that those who killed millions upon millions non-deliberately, in the name of peace and love and democracy have the God given right to do whatever they please without any consiquence and judge whomever they feel should be guilty - regardless of weather justified or not.

Here is a simple exercise to do - Judge America against the criteria they use to judge everyone else. We must be fair in evaluating surely.

Serbia has to break from its past, however painful. Karadzic and Mladic can defend themselves at ICTY and are sure to embarrass the west over who were responsible for the killing of Bosnian Serbs. Serbia is slowly strengthening its position on Kosovo as well, with UN reengaging with Serbia and EULEX still in its infancy, let alone in control of Kosovo. Serbia is in a much better position to become a regional player, acknowledged by all the investments in the last six months. If only the defenders of Serbs will go out to the streets and talk to ordinary people and ask them about what is important for their future: its not Karadzic, but rather the quality of living enjoyed by some of their former Socialist bloc friends. And for all the bravado from Kosovo Albanians posting their views here, Albanians and Serbs in Kosovo are much more capable of figuring out what they want by themselves. We all have become comfortable arm-chair nationalists without being on the ground in both Kosovo and Serbia as I have been over all these years. Let the Serbs and Albanians figure out what they want to do. Lets use this forum for constructive criticism, not for reinventing the wheel.

Peace out.

Well said BKK. I can see all of those selective justice supporters jumping for joy!

The real butchers of the world sponsor this NATO court so long as their immunity to justice remains in place.

GOODBYE, MR. KARADZIC!

We hope you never set your feet in Serbia and Bosnia again in your life.

Well said Dragane, excellent post.

The reason why Serbs are accused is so the REAL criminals (nato) escape justice. SHAME!!!

Who is going to responsible for attrocities committed against serbs???? Those criminals are aquitted of all charges and get to walk free! SHAME!!!

Balkan Boy,

I was going to write what you said but I wold not be able to put it as succintly as you. Well spoken my friend and straight from the heart. This move as you rightly point out will strenghten Serbia's hand considerably over Kosmet and EU acession talks.

We are already seeing the fruits of Serbia's quiet diplomacy, as you rightly pointed out - UN reengaging with Belgrade which will see Pristina forced to the negotiating table, only 43 recognitions for Pristina's UDD and control over N Kosmet and the Serbian areas.

With the ICJ judgement coming up as well as the vote in the UN General Assembly, Serbia is in the driving seat.

I nominate Dragan as the next Prime Minister of Serbia. We certainly need someone with a bit of integrity.

Spot on as usual. The truth is in short supply at the moment so keep the spirit alive my friend.

zorank@email.com

Finally, the criminal is where he belongs.
The protests yesterday didnt help him.
The protests yesterday were not as massive as some radicals were hoping to be.
Reality is kicking in in Serbia.

Nemanja, ZK UK, Ratko,
Thank you for the kind words and keep up your excellent posts!! BKK, USA, also excellent posts!!
Keep on telling people the truth, because as we all know, the truth is on the Serbs' side, not on the side of our enemies.

Tread,
'Clinton's Secretary of Stare Madeline Albright arranged for Otpor leaders to be trained and funded out of the American Embassy in Budapest.'
This is common knowledge, google it. Anything that Albright is behind, you can be 100% sure that it is 200% against Serbian interests. I rest my case. Next! (In my opinion, Otpor members are misinformed and don't have a clue how to help Serbia)

Beagle,
No Serb should recognize the Hague, because the Hague is a proven sham, a kangaroo court, a political institution meant to turn the victims into the aggressors and the aggressors into victims, it was developed to rewrite history, it is meant to punish 'disobedient' small states like Serbia who do not lick the boots of the colonialists, it is meant to set an example and has nothing to do with truth and justice. I think I have answered your question. Americans, who commit war crimes on a regular basis, don't send other Americans to war crimes tribunals, and neither should Serbs. Period.

Keep fighting the good fight friends, the truth will set us free.
Cheers!!

Dragane,

What can I say, my friend? Another well constructed, painfully accurate and intuitively impeccable post!

It warms my heart to read that there are some obviously intelligent Serbs that understand what's going on.

Keep it up!

Niel, You are misquoting Balkan boy or you are unable to understand what he wrote. Just read it again, please: "Albanians and Serbs in Kosovo are much more capable of figuring out what they want by themselves. We all have become comfortable arm-chair nationalists without being on the ground in both Kosovo and Serbia as I have been over all these years. Let the Serbs and Albanians figure out what they want to do. Lets use this forum for constructive criticism, not for reinventing the wheel". Now remeber Neil, I am in Kosva and know thw facts on the ground, and you are not speak out of pure hatred towards Albanians.
Balkan boy left Belgrade out completealy and is aying that K-A and K-S know what is best for them.

For those Serbs who support Karadzic's arrest for the prospect of a better future for Serbia, what will be your position when the following occurs:

1. All implicated Serbs are sent to the Hague

2. Serbia meets all of its other "obligations" to the EU

3. Private bank accounts belonging to executive level Serbian politicians are uncovered in Switzerland or in the Carribean and are found to originate from US and EU political sources.

4. The US and EU continue to promote "serbo-phobia" on the international scene, continue to use terms such as "ethnic cleansing" and "genocide" connected to a war that occured more than a decade ago, and continue to block EU membership for new reasons that are yet to be invented.

You see, I have not lived in Serbia, but I have been in the US since the start of these conflicts in the Balkans and I know that what I have described above is a foregone conclusion based on recent history, lobbying in the US against Serbian interests, and based on the fact that Serbia will always be seen by the West as an arm and protected child of mother Russia. Don't forget, the cold war is on its way back with the resurgance of Russian influence over the past decade. Serbia will always remain closer to the east than the west, as has always been the case due to cultural and religious ties. All of the extraditions and kneeling down to appease the EU will mean nothing for Serbia and the Serbian people, so why go through the motions? Western superpowers always use countries like Serbia for their own long term benefit. Once all of the above becomes reality in the next 5-10 years, I can't wait to read your posts again!

Serbia is not standing infront the court in the Hague - it is Karadzic and noone else. Some people should understand this difference better, those who understand it, should stop to abuse the case of Karadzic for their political purposes.

the trial of Karadzic has nothing to do with Kosovo.

BKK

NATO has been responsible for a great deal of wrong-doing, that cannot be disputed, but to defend a man who is held responsible for the Siege of Sarajevo and the Srebrenica Massacre is in no way better, especially considering the more deliberate nature of his crimes compared to NATO.

Though indeed I agree that certain members of the Bush and Clinton governments ought to be looked into as far as war crimes are concerned, defending a monster like Karadzic is unacceptable, even for Serbs.

One War criminal will be facing with court, so guess who will be next ??!!!...

He should have been tried in Belgrade, Sarajevo or Banja Luka in oder for him to get a proper trial and sentece. EU courts are to soft and polite for peole like him

I think the trial will be very interesting, I am curious to see how it will break down. Seselj's trial was actually very amusing, even funny at times.

Milosevic, even though he was a criminal, and more to the serbian people than anyone else, absolutely made a mockery of the court.
I have heard rumors that all "prisoners" if you can call them that, are not ethnically divided, rather they are all together at certain times. Can anyone confirm that?

Just imagine Ramush Harandaj and Vojislav Seselj discussing "politics" over breakfast. Lol.

great news!! some of us have been waiting a very long time for this moment. thank you, god! and yes, serbian govt. has (finally) done the right thing.

for all of the people who have been waiting for this moment, i share my love and solidarity...

thankyou. roberto frisco

Great comment Balkan Boy. I totally agree with you. Regardless of the outcome of Karadzic's trial, Serbia has fulfilled one of its outstanding obligations and has placed itself in a better position as far as international leverage is concerned. I really think this is part of a larger effort to (re)gain leverage over Kosovo. It's a good strategy: soften the tone of those you negotiate with and appear more pragmatic than the stonewallers in Washington and Pristina.

I say to all patriots out there to keep the faith and keep up the fight for truth and justice. This banana republic government will not last, and God willing, Tadic and Dacic will be gone from the scene soon.
Cheers!!
(Dragan, 30 July 2008 14:21)

As for your continued pushing of the theory that the Otpor protests were somehow organized by outsiders, you do a disservice to your fellow countrymen and the people who had the courage to stand up to Milošević and his horrible administration. I can guess that you do not currently reside in Serbia, therefore you don't really have a stake in what's taking place there.

Dragan, please explain how Tadic is a traitor?

Because he extradited Karadzic? Last time I checked, the MAJORITY of serbs wanted to enter into the EU. One of the pre-requisites, catching Dr. Karadzic. Simple as that. That may upset many people, but its the price you have to pay to get into the EU, wheeather its fair or not. Forget fair, develop Srbija into a Balkan powerhouse that it can be!

Hold back your country econmically for two guys are even brave enough to think what's best for their people and go ahead (like seselj) to the hague?

Atlwast seselj turned himself in, and is now making a mockery of the Hague.

But back to Tadic, what else has he done? Sent ambassadors back? Its politics, you have to put down your pride for the good of your people, just get things done!

What else? Has he recognized kosovo? NO, and he never will. So where's the problem?

He's moderate, not swayed to the left like Ceda or the right like Nikolic. That's wat serbia needs, moderation. The same thing America needs (Obama)

sp,

I moved to the US as a child and had no choice in the matter at the time. I do now, and I choose to live here because the US does offer many freedoms and economic opportunity. That does not mean I must support US foreign policy views. I never have supported meddling in Iraq, for example. The point of my post is that US government views of Serbia are shaped by anti-Russian, cold war era politics. The US public is 100% influenced by American media, which in turn is almost 100% influenced by lobbying and substantial dollars coming from individual ethnic groups promoting their own causes. I have seen it over and over again in the past 15 years. For example, there was one instance where a Serbian "camp" of Bosnian Muslims was shown on CNN, after which a Serbian lady in the US recognized her father! There were many, many more unfair depictions of Serbs in Bosnia and Serbia, while the ethnic cleansing of Serbs in other areas of the former Yugoslavia was never shown. Everything has always been one-sided, with the Serbian side always being the aggressor, which was not the case. My point in the post was also that this position by the US will not change, regardless of what Serbia does to "cooperate" with the US and the EU. I hope that makes it more clear for you.

sp,

I share your point. Many Serbs moved to the US only for economic reason. They enjoy our high living standard but otherwise they consider this country as an ennemy. If they would be in much higher numbers they would definitely cause an acute national security risk. Our authorities should keep an eye on them.

I have to agree with Olf, they do get off easy...look at Harandaj...

Congratulations Mr Tadic,

This brave moove of the Serbian government has to be rewarded. A waver of the visa requrments would be a nice start. Let's hope the EU does not limmit its reaction with verbal aproval. Serbia received enough lashas, its time for carrots!

BKK

Unfortunately such is life that the most powerful countries cannot be judged for what they have done.

Russia has not been judged for Chechnya and Afghanistan, China has not been judged for Tibet, same as America will not be judged for Vietnam and Iraq. These countries are simply too powerful and too influential for anyone to do anything about them.

I don't agree with it either, but glorifying Karadzic as many Serbs here do does not make them in any way better than the Americans who glorify Albright or Clarke's actions.

To conclude: just because Karadzic is highly qualified, does not make him a better person. I know that he was defending Serbian interests against the muslims, I have no problem with that, but killing unarmed civilians is the wrong way of doing it.

@ USA, you asked all those questions about what will pro-EU serbs say when those things happen. What if they dont happen? what will happen if Srbija enters EU?

Now lets flip it...Radicals rule govt.....what if we dont turn over Mladic, and we become isolated just like Albania was for 50 years? You'll be writing internet posts from the USA while other serbs will fleeing their own country.

USA #25
You say that you have lived in the US since the start of the Balkan Wars, which to me means you moved there by choice. My question is why would anyone choose to live in a country they so obviously abhor? Unless you are in a prison or in the country illegally without papers you have the ability to go anywhere to live, why not Serbia?
Maybe you have become too dependent on the the freedoms and economical advantages afforded you from a society which you detest.

The notion that the US or the EU is engaged in promoting Serbia-phobia is the nonsense propaganda of the nationalist posters here. They oppose Serbia on the position of Kosovo, but both entities have generated a lot of energy to the advancement of Serbia. However, the ultranationalists want to tie Kosovo to everything.
The US is not part of the EU, there is a lot of cooperation between the two, but to accuse the US of standing in the way of Serbia joining the EU is nonsense, if the US dictated EU membership Turkey would have been a member long ago. But it makes a lot of posters happy here to blame all problems on the US.
But back to the original point, there are a lot of people who do not have the option of moving to another country, but those in the US are not among them. It is difficult to get papers to move to the US but not out. I for one would not live in a place I so vigorously hated.

Dragan, the Otpor protests may have been funded from the outside, but it was definitely a home-grown movement against Milošević.

As B92 chose to edit my comment, they left out the part where I protested that when you talk about the "removal" of heads of state, it's pretty clear what you're advocating. Only someone who lives in the economic and social comfort of another country would lobby for such a thing because they don't have to face the turmoil or consequences of such an action.

Speaking of lobbying, USA, instead of complaining about other minorities lobbying against the Serbs in the US, why not organize several well-placed and highly-payed Serbs who live there to advocate for their countrymen living at home? Trust me, I know how difficult it is to get the diaspora together for something as much as a picnic, let alone an organization to promote Serbia. The organizations that are in place are so disorganized and disconnected from Americans that there's no wonder people here could care less. A first step would be getting (and trustings) American members in their ranks.

Everybody thank you kindly for all this valuable information here concerning Serbs and Serbia....Never in recent memory have a whole people been so denigrated as us Serbs...We've had to endure the calumny the world over, in a sense putting us on the map but in an unfavourable light...We've been blamed ostensibly and overtly ever since world war 1 and have been made to be culprits and criminals of what history soon unvieled to be OTHER PEOPLE'S SINISTER LEITMOTIV'S...Karadzic as well as Milosevic are hero's and if they're not deemed so in this generation or even in the next or even after that history will apprise their heroic claim's and convictions from a more AWAKENED generation...people are not killers, individuals only can achieve such trademarks...and even then generals no matter how enlightened they are can't possibly control the mob which exists in all peoples really. Dragan moj drug see you next week Danijela...

Just as well he was sent off without a prior warning. I can just imagine it:

They only smashed up Belgrade 'because they were angry at the decision to send Mladic to the Hague'. One less excuse, but these appeasers are full of excuses.

Through previous comments we can see that the EU and NATO must carefully look at the history of Bosnia and that region.

UN and EU can see clearly if they investigate hystory of bosnia serbia and greece and bulgaria who and which nations are native to the Balkan Peninsula.

Also we can see how the West prevented and reduced the territories of Bulgaria, Hungary, Serbia, Croatia and how the former Yugoslavian states aren't created on ethnical borders.

Also in the former Yugoslavia we have a large number of albanian immigrants emigrated to Serbian region Kosovo for better life where they never as muslims have accepted first multhi ethnic Yugoslavia and they aren't accepting Serbia today.

Now who and what gives this minorities right to look for a state in another state.

Does that mean that tomorrow majority of ITalians in Australia around 1.5 mil will say oh I do not want to live with other australians i want my own small tiny state.

What isin this people mind to think that if they are independent that they will live better.

This nations are small, tiny, with no resources, no economy, no infrastructure, covered in corruption and crime and they simply do not have strong economy to exist on their own.

Montenegro, Kosovo and Macedonia region of the former Yugoslavia rely on smugling of illegal substances, cigarettes, poverty, illegal muslim immigrants to Italy and western EU, they are lawless states with corruption and crime.

So why they went so easily into communism and nationalsocialism?

Through all this comments we can see that all this people still live in the past and still think that the entities and small tiny states like kosovo montenegro, bosnia and macedonia have a perspective and future.

Why all this people don't stop for a second and think for a minute with their head and why they don't ask themselves this things and questions:

"wait a minute I want "what ever the name of state is" indenpendent.

I want for example Kosovo, Hercegovina independent and I want to anex this two territories to Croatia.

What are the perspectives of this country?

Does this country has a multiclutural society and freedom?

Does this country has appropriate legislation and laws?

Does this territory has a solid and market economy?

Does this country has enough money to support independence?

Does my country has the infrastructure?

Does my country has a lot of support and assistance for innovation and

invention from higly intelligent members of my country?

Does my country complies with EU and UN human rights laws?

Does my country has enough resources?

Does my country has enough territory?

If the former Yugoslavians ask themselves this questions then they will know that formation One nation one religion country is not a way to go.

It is a way to go centuries back"...That fact only should be reason enough for Republika Srpska not to ever become independent state, which it won't.

Karadzic must a receive a fair and impartial trial. It is a pity that many Western politicians consider him guilty before proven innocent. You would think that common sense would have things be the other way around, but, it just goes to show that common sense ain t all that common. The media and those politicians, like Owen for example, must be more responsible, or they risk túrning the court into an even bigger political circus. If this continues how can one expect mild Serbian skeptics of the court to turn over Mladic or anyone else?

Radovan karadzic is where he belongs. Some other big criminals from the same time managed to escape The Haag due to illness and natural death caused by their weak health and protection from "big and strong countries". Let the people in former Jugoslavia move on with their lives and let us now see international officials in Bosnia go back to their political work from their misunderstood role as the long arm of justice. The world gets better for every criminal that is put in front of the court. However, some high level politicians never end up in court due to "their" own understanding of justice. This is a problem that the world need to address via the International Criminal Court. Let the big players sign up for that court before they judge others - that will help restore their reputation worldwide.

Finally, the criminal is where he belongs.
The protests yesterday didnt help him.
The protests yesterday were not as massive as some radicals were hoping to be.
Reality is kicking in in Serbia.

GOODBYE, MR. KARADZIC!

We hope you never set your feet in Serbia and Bosnia again in your life.

great news!! some of us have been waiting a very long time for this moment. thank you, god! and yes, serbian govt. has (finally) done the right thing.

for all of the people who have been waiting for this moment, i share my love and solidarity...

thankyou. roberto frisco

Just as well he was sent off without a prior warning. I can just imagine it:

They only smashed up Belgrade 'because they were angry at the decision to send Mladic to the Hague'. One less excuse, but these appeasers are full of excuses.

Ah, The Hague...the pinacle of modern justice system where Dr. Karadzic will be judged by the butchers of Vietnam and the butchers of Iraq, killers of El Salvador and Afghanistan, murderers of Hiroshima and Nagasaki and rapists of Africa and who will be holding the 'holier-than-thou' at Serbs.

This would be amusing if it wasn't so tragic.

Serbia has to break from its past, however painful. Karadzic and Mladic can defend themselves at ICTY and are sure to embarrass the west over who were responsible for the killing of Bosnian Serbs. Serbia is slowly strengthening its position on Kosovo as well, with UN reengaging with Serbia and EULEX still in its infancy, let alone in control of Kosovo. Serbia is in a much better position to become a regional player, acknowledged by all the investments in the last six months. If only the defenders of Serbs will go out to the streets and talk to ordinary people and ask them about what is important for their future: its not Karadzic, but rather the quality of living enjoyed by some of their former Socialist bloc friends. And for all the bravado from Kosovo Albanians posting their views here, Albanians and Serbs in Kosovo are much more capable of figuring out what they want by themselves. We all have become comfortable arm-chair nationalists without being on the ground in both Kosovo and Serbia as I have been over all these years. Let the Serbs and Albanians figure out what they want to do. Lets use this forum for constructive criticism, not for reinventing the wheel.

Peace out.

BKK

NATO has been responsible for a great deal of wrong-doing, that cannot be disputed, but to defend a man who is held responsible for the Siege of Sarajevo and the Srebrenica Massacre is in no way better, especially considering the more deliberate nature of his crimes compared to NATO.

Though indeed I agree that certain members of the Bush and Clinton governments ought to be looked into as far as war crimes are concerned, defending a monster like Karadzic is unacceptable, even for Serbs.

Serbia is not standing infront the court in the Hague - it is Karadzic and noone else. Some people should understand this difference better, those who understand it, should stop to abuse the case of Karadzic for their political purposes.

the trial of Karadzic has nothing to do with Kosovo.

Another political show trial meant to put Serbia in a bad light and accuse the victims of being aggressors, in order to make the real aggressors escape justice. All this talk of 'genocide' sickens me, while the REAL genocide happened with the complete ethnic cleansing of Serbs from Krajina, and the emptying of Sarajevo of all Serbs.
Natasa Kandic and Richard Holbrooke are happy. Some ignorant self-hating Serbs are happy too.
While Americans commit war crimes all over the world, use napalm on civilians (Vietnam), not allow their soldiers to face any kind of international war crimes court, they have the gall to accuse others of 'war crimes'. What a sick joke that is.
Their strategy is to focus on the revenge killings in Srebrenica due to Nasir Oric's murder, rape, mutilation of 3,500 Serbian civilians in the area. The same Nasir Oric who the Hague presumed innocent, and who used the Srebrenica 'safe zone' to attack Serbian villages from. Notice that the US propogandists do not mention a peep about Krajina, which is REAL genocide which they sponsored - 500 years of history wiped out in one weekend.
I would not want to be Boris Tadic, who will probably need American body guards for the rest of his life (I doubt he can trust Serbs to do it), just like Karzai does.
It's called a banana republic people. Let's hope the next election ejects this minion, and the patriots are back where they belong.
The rally last night was large and successful, and was not even paid for - the way that Madeline Albright paid millions for the Otpor protests. And the protesters did not even destroy and loot the parliament building the way the Otpor hooligans did.

I say to all patriots out there to keep the faith and keep up the fight for truth and justice. This banana republic government will not last, and God willing, Tadic and Dacic will be gone from the scene soon.
Cheers!!

One War criminal will be facing with court, so guess who will be next ??!!!...

He should have been tried in Belgrade, Sarajevo or Banja Luka in oder for him to get a proper trial and sentece. EU courts are to soft and polite for peole like him

Great comment Balkan Boy. I totally agree with you. Regardless of the outcome of Karadzic's trial, Serbia has fulfilled one of its outstanding obligations and has placed itself in a better position as far as international leverage is concerned. I really think this is part of a larger effort to (re)gain leverage over Kosovo. It's a good strategy: soften the tone of those you negotiate with and appear more pragmatic than the stonewallers in Washington and Pristina.

Dragan, please explain how Tadic is a traitor?

Because he extradited Karadzic? Last time I checked, the MAJORITY of serbs wanted to enter into the EU. One of the pre-requisites, catching Dr. Karadzic. Simple as that. That may upset many people, but its the price you have to pay to get into the EU, wheeather its fair or not. Forget fair, develop Srbija into a Balkan powerhouse that it can be!

Hold back your country econmically for two guys are even brave enough to think what's best for their people and go ahead (like seselj) to the hague?

Atlwast seselj turned himself in, and is now making a mockery of the Hague.

But back to Tadic, what else has he done? Sent ambassadors back? Its politics, you have to put down your pride for the good of your people, just get things done!

What else? Has he recognized kosovo? NO, and he never will. So where's the problem?

He's moderate, not swayed to the left like Ceda or the right like Nikolic. That's wat serbia needs, moderation. The same thing America needs (Obama)

Congratulations Mr Tadic,

This brave moove of the Serbian government has to be rewarded. A waver of the visa requrments would be a nice start. Let's hope the EU does not limmit its reaction with verbal aproval. Serbia received enough lashas, its time for carrots!

Through previous comments we can see that the EU and NATO must carefully look at the history of Bosnia and that region.

UN and EU can see clearly if they investigate hystory of bosnia serbia and greece and bulgaria who and which nations are native to the Balkan Peninsula.

Also we can see how the West prevented and reduced the territories of Bulgaria, Hungary, Serbia, Croatia and how the former Yugoslavian states aren't created on ethnical borders.

Also in the former Yugoslavia we have a large number of albanian immigrants emigrated to Serbian region Kosovo for better life where they never as muslims have accepted first multhi ethnic Yugoslavia and they aren't accepting Serbia today.

Now who and what gives this minorities right to look for a state in another state.

Does that mean that tomorrow majority of ITalians in Australia around 1.5 mil will say oh I do not want to live with other australians i want my own small tiny state.

What isin this people mind to think that if they are independent that they will live better.

This nations are small, tiny, with no resources, no economy, no infrastructure, covered in corruption and crime and they simply do not have strong economy to exist on their own.

Montenegro, Kosovo and Macedonia region of the former Yugoslavia rely on smugling of illegal substances, cigarettes, poverty, illegal muslim immigrants to Italy and western EU, they are lawless states with corruption and crime.

So why they went so easily into communism and nationalsocialism?

Through all this comments we can see that all this people still live in the past and still think that the entities and small tiny states like kosovo montenegro, bosnia and macedonia have a perspective and future.

Why all this people don't stop for a second and think for a minute with their head and why they don't ask themselves this things and questions:

"wait a minute I want "what ever the name of state is" indenpendent.

I want for example Kosovo, Hercegovina independent and I want to anex this two territories to Croatia.

What are the perspectives of this country?

Does this country has a multiclutural society and freedom?

Does this country has appropriate legislation and laws?

Does this territory has a solid and market economy?

Does this country has enough money to support independence?

Does my country has the infrastructure?

Does my country has a lot of support and assistance for innovation and

invention from higly intelligent members of my country?

Does my country complies with EU and UN human rights laws?

Does my country has enough resources?

Does my country has enough territory?

If the former Yugoslavians ask themselves this questions then they will know that formation One nation one religion country is not a way to go.

It is a way to go centuries back"...That fact only should be reason enough for Republika Srpska not to ever become independent state, which it won't.

Niel, You are misquoting Balkan boy or you are unable to understand what he wrote. Just read it again, please: "Albanians and Serbs in Kosovo are much more capable of figuring out what they want by themselves. We all have become comfortable arm-chair nationalists without being on the ground in both Kosovo and Serbia as I have been over all these years. Let the Serbs and Albanians figure out what they want to do. Lets use this forum for constructive criticism, not for reinventing the wheel". Now remeber Neil, I am in Kosva and know thw facts on the ground, and you are not speak out of pure hatred towards Albanians.
Balkan boy left Belgrade out completealy and is aying that K-A and K-S know what is best for them.

Peter Sudyka,

Oh right, I forgot. Certain world powers non deliberately used agant orange on civilian populations in Viet Nam. They also accedentaly bombed and shot civilians in Iraq and not to mention humuliated the prisoners, and complitely due to lack of awareness that they sponsored years upon years of bloody civil wars in South America over cocaine, coffee and bananas...and all in the last 60 years or so.

Evil Serbs however, killed everyone in Former Yugoslavia, which official statistic number around 2 billion people and kidnapped another 1.5 billion and ate their babies...just because.

It is therefore clear that those who killed millions upon millions non-deliberately, in the name of peace and love and democracy have the God given right to do whatever they please without any consiquence and judge whomever they feel should be guilty - regardless of weather justified or not.

Here is a simple exercise to do - Judge America against the criteria they use to judge everyone else. We must be fair in evaluating surely.

BKK

Unfortunately such is life that the most powerful countries cannot be judged for what they have done.

Russia has not been judged for Chechnya and Afghanistan, China has not been judged for Tibet, same as America will not be judged for Vietnam and Iraq. These countries are simply too powerful and too influential for anyone to do anything about them.

I don't agree with it either, but glorifying Karadzic as many Serbs here do does not make them in any way better than the Americans who glorify Albright or Clarke's actions.

To conclude: just because Karadzic is highly qualified, does not make him a better person. I know that he was defending Serbian interests against the muslims, I have no problem with that, but killing unarmed civilians is the wrong way of doing it.

Dragane,

What can I say, my friend? Another well constructed, painfully accurate and intuitively impeccable post!

It warms my heart to read that there are some obviously intelligent Serbs that understand what's going on.

Keep it up!

Well said Dragane, excellent post.

The reason why Serbs are accused is so the REAL criminals (nato) escape justice. SHAME!!!

Who is going to responsible for attrocities committed against serbs???? Those criminals are aquitted of all charges and get to walk free! SHAME!!!

I nominate Dragan as the next Prime Minister of Serbia. We certainly need someone with a bit of integrity.

Spot on as usual. The truth is in short supply at the moment so keep the spirit alive my friend.

zorank@email.com

I think the trial will be very interesting, I am curious to see how it will break down. Seselj's trial was actually very amusing, even funny at times.

Milosevic, even though he was a criminal, and more to the serbian people than anyone else, absolutely made a mockery of the court.
I have heard rumors that all "prisoners" if you can call them that, are not ethnically divided, rather they are all together at certain times. Can anyone confirm that?

Just imagine Ramush Harandaj and Vojislav Seselj discussing "politics" over breakfast. Lol.

I say to all patriots out there to keep the faith and keep up the fight for truth and justice. This banana republic government will not last, and God willing, Tadic and Dacic will be gone from the scene soon.
Cheers!!
(Dragan, 30 July 2008 14:21)

As for your continued pushing of the theory that the Otpor protests were somehow organized by outsiders, you do a disservice to your fellow countrymen and the people who had the courage to stand up to Milošević and his horrible administration. I can guess that you do not currently reside in Serbia, therefore you don't really have a stake in what's taking place there.

I have to agree with Olf, they do get off easy...look at Harandaj...

For those Serbs who support Karadzic's arrest for the prospect of a better future for Serbia, what will be your position when the following occurs:

1. All implicated Serbs are sent to the Hague

2. Serbia meets all of its other "obligations" to the EU

3. Private bank accounts belonging to executive level Serbian politicians are uncovered in Switzerland or in the Carribean and are found to originate from US and EU political sources.

4. The US and EU continue to promote "serbo-phobia" on the international scene, continue to use terms such as "ethnic cleansing" and "genocide" connected to a war that occured more than a decade ago, and continue to block EU membership for new reasons that are yet to be invented.

You see, I have not lived in Serbia, but I have been in the US since the start of these conflicts in the Balkans and I know that what I have described above is a foregone conclusion based on recent history, lobbying in the US against Serbian interests, and based on the fact that Serbia will always be seen by the West as an arm and protected child of mother Russia. Don't forget, the cold war is on its way back with the resurgance of Russian influence over the past decade. Serbia will always remain closer to the east than the west, as has always been the case due to cultural and religious ties. All of the extraditions and kneeling down to appease the EU will mean nothing for Serbia and the Serbian people, so why go through the motions? Western superpowers always use countries like Serbia for their own long term benefit. Once all of the above becomes reality in the next 5-10 years, I can't wait to read your posts again!

@ USA, you asked all those questions about what will pro-EU serbs say when those things happen. What if they dont happen? what will happen if Srbija enters EU?

Now lets flip it...Radicals rule govt.....what if we dont turn over Mladic, and we become isolated just like Albania was for 50 years? You'll be writing internet posts from the USA while other serbs will fleeing their own country.

Balkan Boy,

I was going to write what you said but I wold not be able to put it as succintly as you. Well spoken my friend and straight from the heart. This move as you rightly point out will strenghten Serbia's hand considerably over Kosmet and EU acession talks.

We are already seeing the fruits of Serbia's quiet diplomacy, as you rightly pointed out - UN reengaging with Belgrade which will see Pristina forced to the negotiating table, only 43 recognitions for Pristina's UDD and control over N Kosmet and the Serbian areas.

With the ICJ judgement coming up as well as the vote in the UN General Assembly, Serbia is in the driving seat.

Well said BKK. I can see all of those selective justice supporters jumping for joy!

The real butchers of the world sponsor this NATO court so long as their immunity to justice remains in place.

Nemanja, ZK UK, Ratko,
Thank you for the kind words and keep up your excellent posts!! BKK, USA, also excellent posts!!
Keep on telling people the truth, because as we all know, the truth is on the Serbs' side, not on the side of our enemies.

Tread,
'Clinton's Secretary of Stare Madeline Albright arranged for Otpor leaders to be trained and funded out of the American Embassy in Budapest.'
This is common knowledge, google it. Anything that Albright is behind, you can be 100% sure that it is 200% against Serbian interests. I rest my case. Next! (In my opinion, Otpor members are misinformed and don't have a clue how to help Serbia)

Beagle,
No Serb should recognize the Hague, because the Hague is a proven sham, a kangaroo court, a political institution meant to turn the victims into the aggressors and the aggressors into victims, it was developed to rewrite history, it is meant to punish 'disobedient' small states like Serbia who do not lick the boots of the colonialists, it is meant to set an example and has nothing to do with truth and justice. I think I have answered your question. Americans, who commit war crimes on a regular basis, don't send other Americans to war crimes tribunals, and neither should Serbs. Period.

Keep fighting the good fight friends, the truth will set us free.
Cheers!!

USA #25
You say that you have lived in the US since the start of the Balkan Wars, which to me means you moved there by choice. My question is why would anyone choose to live in a country they so obviously abhor? Unless you are in a prison or in the country illegally without papers you have the ability to go anywhere to live, why not Serbia?
Maybe you have become too dependent on the the freedoms and economical advantages afforded you from a society which you detest.

The notion that the US or the EU is engaged in promoting Serbia-phobia is the nonsense propaganda of the nationalist posters here. They oppose Serbia on the position of Kosovo, but both entities have generated a lot of energy to the advancement of Serbia. However, the ultranationalists want to tie Kosovo to everything.
The US is not part of the EU, there is a lot of cooperation between the two, but to accuse the US of standing in the way of Serbia joining the EU is nonsense, if the US dictated EU membership Turkey would have been a member long ago. But it makes a lot of posters happy here to blame all problems on the US.
But back to the original point, there are a lot of people who do not have the option of moving to another country, but those in the US are not among them. It is difficult to get papers to move to the US but not out. I for one would not live in a place I so vigorously hated.

sp,

I moved to the US as a child and had no choice in the matter at the time. I do now, and I choose to live here because the US does offer many freedoms and economic opportunity. That does not mean I must support US foreign policy views. I never have supported meddling in Iraq, for example. The point of my post is that US government views of Serbia are shaped by anti-Russian, cold war era politics. The US public is 100% influenced by American media, which in turn is almost 100% influenced by lobbying and substantial dollars coming from individual ethnic groups promoting their own causes. I have seen it over and over again in the past 15 years. For example, there was one instance where a Serbian "camp" of Bosnian Muslims was shown on CNN, after which a Serbian lady in the US recognized her father! There were many, many more unfair depictions of Serbs in Bosnia and Serbia, while the ethnic cleansing of Serbs in other areas of the former Yugoslavia was never shown. Everything has always been one-sided, with the Serbian side always being the aggressor, which was not the case. My point in the post was also that this position by the US will not change, regardless of what Serbia does to "cooperate" with the US and the EU. I hope that makes it more clear for you.

sp,

I share your point. Many Serbs moved to the US only for economic reason. They enjoy our high living standard but otherwise they consider this country as an ennemy. If they would be in much higher numbers they would definitely cause an acute national security risk. Our authorities should keep an eye on them.

Dragan, the Otpor protests may have been funded from the outside, but it was definitely a home-grown movement against Milošević.

As B92 chose to edit my comment, they left out the part where I protested that when you talk about the "removal" of heads of state, it's pretty clear what you're advocating. Only someone who lives in the economic and social comfort of another country would lobby for such a thing because they don't have to face the turmoil or consequences of such an action.

Speaking of lobbying, USA, instead of complaining about other minorities lobbying against the Serbs in the US, why not organize several well-placed and highly-payed Serbs who live there to advocate for their countrymen living at home? Trust me, I know how difficult it is to get the diaspora together for something as much as a picnic, let alone an organization to promote Serbia. The organizations that are in place are so disorganized and disconnected from Americans that there's no wonder people here could care less. A first step would be getting (and trustings) American members in their ranks.

Karadzic must a receive a fair and impartial trial. It is a pity that many Western politicians consider him guilty before proven innocent. You would think that common sense would have things be the other way around, but, it just goes to show that common sense ain t all that common. The media and those politicians, like Owen for example, must be more responsible, or they risk túrning the court into an even bigger political circus. If this continues how can one expect mild Serbian skeptics of the court to turn over Mladic or anyone else?

Radovan karadzic is where he belongs. Some other big criminals from the same time managed to escape The Haag due to illness and natural death caused by their weak health and protection from "big and strong countries". Let the people in former Jugoslavia move on with their lives and let us now see international officials in Bosnia go back to their political work from their misunderstood role as the long arm of justice. The world gets better for every criminal that is put in front of the court. However, some high level politicians never end up in court due to "their" own understanding of justice. This is a problem that the world need to address via the International Criminal Court. Let the big players sign up for that court before they judge others - that will help restore their reputation worldwide.

Everybody thank you kindly for all this valuable information here concerning Serbs and Serbia....Never in recent memory have a whole people been so denigrated as us Serbs...We've had to endure the calumny the world over, in a sense putting us on the map but in an unfavourable light...We've been blamed ostensibly and overtly ever since world war 1 and have been made to be culprits and criminals of what history soon unvieled to be OTHER PEOPLE'S SINISTER LEITMOTIV'S...Karadzic as well as Milosevic are hero's and if they're not deemed so in this generation or even in the next or even after that history will apprise their heroic claim's and convictions from a more AWAKENED generation...people are not killers, individuals only can achieve such trademarks...and even then generals no matter how enlightened they are can't possibly control the mob which exists in all peoples really. Dragan moj drug see you next week Danijela...