@Joe: I was wrong than and thanks for being (unlike most of the immigration) critical to the - as you say - "little populist". He may be indeed "little" but his ambitions are even more than of Мирјана Марковић. As some insiders suggest, certain (late) president of YU was merely her lapdog. However, your strong anti-Serb bias is close to the view of some radicals in Hungary and Hungarian immigration in USA - hence my mistake. If luckily I am wrong, please do yourself a favor and if you have time travel to Serbia for a short visit. Belgrade is only 26 Euro round-trip from Hungary and Crna Gora coast is a mere 66 Euro round-trip (you can include ad many stop-overs as you like within one month):
http://tinyurl.com/5fpxev
Otherwise - you could be surprised - Serbia is a normal European country. The situation with Hungarian minority is not bad, probably THE BEST compared with other neighbor countries. There is always a room for improvement tough. This is not blackmail, only negotiations. At last, Hungarians were not forced to paint the trash bins in Subotica "red-blue-white" (remember the crazy Gheorghe Funar in Kolozsvár/Cluj with Romanian tricolor trash bins? Luckily, he is gone now). If you argue without been in Serbia recently it is like arguing how many angels can fit on the tip of a needle.
As far as Ms. Göncz: she is the head of the Foreign Ministry. She is responsible for what is happening there. The way the Foreign Ministry acted was underhanded to Hungarian minority in Serbia. It was against prudent proposals of moderate Hungarian conservatives. It was a cowardly act. Serbian minority in Hungary still exists, it made some few protests - but they were not considered. There are very few if any historic links between Hungarians and Albanians, only numerous silly jokes about Albanian "power". Let me omit these racist Hungarian jokes. In that context it is obvious, among Hungarian population towards Albania there is indifference at best and "looking down" at worst. That means, there was zero popular support for UDI in Hungary. The government based on K.G. proposal recognized the UDI "coincidently" the same time as Croatia and Bulgaria. Which allowed them finger-point to each other: "it was actually the other two, who did". This is why it was a cowardly act. The timing (visa-free travel promise from bushy-boy) was also suspicious. What can you say? She is the head of that office and they acted like a bunch of cowards.
UDI is criminal at least because it was pronounced by a regime full of suspected mobsters, gangsters, rapists, organ-traders, drugsters, pimps. These activities represent a miniscule part of K-Albanians, but it seems, the negative selection works there well. I am not alone in Hungary to say that: in March 2004 Hungarian police because of Interpol warrant arrested agim ceku alias "pigeon", but they had to release him following pressure by UNMIK. That means, until March 2004 that was also the official opinion in Hungary:
http://tinyurl.com/6ympoc
Read this link, please and tell me what you think about the lack of backbone issue after that.
Joe,
Your argument about Kosovo UDI being "criminal for you but not for the democratic minded countries and people, who are not blind and know why it came about, know what happened in the nineties" is wrong.
1) There is no single "democratic-minded" country on the Earth. Countries have more-less democratically more-less elected more-less governments. Once elected, these governments act on their own, often under umbrella of democracy but always for the interest of some groups. These groups are not democratic. To remember: Hitler was democratically elected, bush, too. So was Putin. Neither acts very democratically and all have/had certain powerful groups backing them. At this point I can say, Serbia (or Hungary) are perhaps among the few "most democratic" countries in the world with transparent elections and mafia acting behind the curtains being among the least powerful.
2) World's biggest "democracy" is India. It is larger than the rest of "democracies" combined. We know the Indian stance. You can of course "defuse" it with your "Jolly Joker" (see later about it) but simply because you apply the "Jolly Joker" it is not an argument :)
3) You were not in Serbia in 90-s. I am not sure, you ever been there. Your information probably comes from CNN/FOX and the rest. I do not claim to be insider either, but it is not tough to discover blatant lies spread by the above media. Why and how it happened - long story. It's not a "cover-up", just some political game.
The argument like "you are either not democratic or you just don't know what happened" is not an argument because it can be universally applied, like a Jolly Joker - just to suit your bias: "America is democratic, America is for UDI, so America knows. India is democratic, India is against the UDI, so it means India probably just does not know. Spain certainly does know, Spain is against UDI, so Spain is probably not democratic, yes, sure we can find the reason called Basque, OK, than this is also over".
Yes Mike, Hungary would benefit too from a Serbian membership in the EU...no doubt about it. And the shrinking, economically drifting Hungarian minority in Vojvodina would gain a lot. They would feel less cut-off from the mother country. The Hungarians of Slovakia and Rumania are now moving back and fort. Nobody questions the current borders anymore.
There is a sort of Hungarian re-unification over the borders. Nobody s/b treatened.
In case of Serbia what the current EU-members want is simply make sure that Serbia accept the rules of the game of the union..accepted by all members.
If Serbia would be a normal European country like most of them than it would respect the rights of its Hungarian minority REGARDLESS of external, meaning Hungarian government's decisions.
Doing otherwise is blackmail.
What you are suggesting is appaisement, appaisement, caving in to blackmail. Appaisement of any kind never worked.
Also the UDI is criminal for you but not for the democratic minded countries and people, who are not blind and know why it came about, know what happened in the nineties.
And by the way before you would label me an Orban fan I want to point out that I was never fond of that little populist.
About Kinga Goncz I don't have any special opinion. Still label her as without backbone find it pretty unfair.
Ah, but Joe you tend to forget again that while Serbia may be a second-rate power in Europe, and hardly able to hold its own against more developed countries of Western Europe, it is of strategic importance to Southeastern Europe. The EU has made every effort to get Serbia on board and many see Serbia as the geographical keystone to the Balkans as it once was in Yugoslavia. Belgrade has enormous potential, just for being located where it is, for being the Berlin of the Balkans politically and economically. And yes, while there are many Serbs who think they can take on the entire EU, there is an equal amount who see the benefits of negotiating with an increasingly willing EU to find some common ground between EU interests and Serbian interests. I'm not surprised at Hungary's willingness to help Serbia since they benefit too by sharing a border with them.
With the arrest of Karadzic, a pro-EU government in Belgrade, and an EU ready to bend over backwards for Serbia's ascension, I see Serbia's long-deserved reintegration into Europe a reality more than ever.
@Mr Joe
yes reading B92 I have discovered how big is Serbian Ego (maybe as French but with less reasons )..
reality is that They are a poor country with less than 9 milions inhabitants and with an almost dismised army but they think themself as an almighty power ready to dominate the Balkans...
the truth is that even Russia is making their cause very softly !you have seen during the election period.. no money no industrial investments no lending, only words and some bottles of wodka... so their only open door (and hope ) is Eu but..we are in crisis politically and economically so the sitation is...
bad !
About stability in the Balkans I had the same reaction as you. I just didn't want to mention it since one can be censured on B92 for little innocent things.
Anyway when Serbs mention this stability they always overrate their own importance. In this respect they far exceed even the French.
The reality is that in the former Eastern, communist part of Europe - between Western-Europe and Russia - the Poles are the only ones who have some weight. This was clear this year too when Poland had disagreements with the big ones like Germany and France.
Yea sure Luigi....clear out the Slavs and albanians, and bring all the africans(and they are coming, whether you like it or not). That's exactly the plan of the EU, makes a lot of sense...
In reality it doesn't but if you lack objectivity it might.
@mr.Jevic
The stability of the Balkans ??
Here in Western europe no one cares of it !!
The only arguments that politician here use for the enlargement POLICY to W.B. is the hope of massive rempatriation of Slavs and Albanians from here to their motheland...
It looks very much as Serbia is eager to enter the EU even without Kosovo.
The economic incentives for it are just too tempting. Otherwise you would form a union with democratic Russia and Belarus.
You need the EU much, much more than the EU needs you.
for these EU states who "betrayed" Serbia by recognizing the kosovo UDI (Jevic, 28 July 2008 11:10)
They did not betray Serbia, Jevic. They just had an anatomic problem and sudden could not locate their own backbone.
It is of a common knowledge in Hungary, the recognition was done by coincident few days apart as Hungarians got the promise from USA regarding the visa-free travel. So far, it is still a promise. It was pretty cleverly formulated and so far not materialized yet. The life is not perfect, if you deal with crooks like bush it's even less perfect.
Really?? well for these EU states who "betrayed" Serbia by recognizing the kosovo UDI.are you willing to "drop" that recognition if Serbia fully cooperates with hague commmission??
Takenote the stability of the whole balkans depends on Serbia and Serbia will never enter EU without kosovo as it's province.
To restore good relations with Serbia that is way to little and more creative ideas have to be implemented. Maybe negotiating about Hungarian minority in Vojvodina in exchange of denouncing the UDI as a criminal act plus withdraw all support of the illegal maffiosi "government" in Pristina?
That will give the current government a huge boost against the populists-nationalists (FIDESZ) of V. Orbán.
And as for UDI....She
http://tinyurl.com/6hkkud
should ask the spirit of her latte father, what is his opinion about Kosovo UDI and the Hungarian recognition of Kosovo. Than go to a doctor and let him help her to locate her own backbone.
It looks very much as Serbia is eager to enter the EU even without Kosovo.
The economic incentives for it are just too tempting. Otherwise you would form a union with democratic Russia and Belarus.
You need the EU much, much more than the EU needs you.
Really?? well for these EU states who "betrayed" Serbia by recognizing the kosovo UDI.are you willing to "drop" that recognition if Serbia fully cooperates with hague commmission??
Takenote the stability of the whole balkans depends on Serbia and Serbia will never enter EU without kosovo as it's province.
for these EU states who "betrayed" Serbia by recognizing the kosovo UDI (Jevic, 28 July 2008 11:10)
They did not betray Serbia, Jevic. They just had an anatomic problem and sudden could not locate their own backbone.
It is of a common knowledge in Hungary, the recognition was done by coincident few days apart as Hungarians got the promise from USA regarding the visa-free travel. So far, it is still a promise. It was pretty cleverly formulated and so far not materialized yet. The life is not perfect, if you deal with crooks like bush it's even less perfect.
About stability in the Balkans I had the same reaction as you. I just didn't want to mention it since one can be censured on B92 for little innocent things.
Anyway when Serbs mention this stability they always overrate their own importance. In this respect they far exceed even the French.
The reality is that in the former Eastern, communist part of Europe - between Western-Europe and Russia - the Poles are the only ones who have some weight. This was clear this year too when Poland had disagreements with the big ones like Germany and France.
Ah, but Joe you tend to forget again that while Serbia may be a second-rate power in Europe, and hardly able to hold its own against more developed countries of Western Europe, it is of strategic importance to Southeastern Europe. The EU has made every effort to get Serbia on board and many see Serbia as the geographical keystone to the Balkans as it once was in Yugoslavia. Belgrade has enormous potential, just for being located where it is, for being the Berlin of the Balkans politically and economically. And yes, while there are many Serbs who think they can take on the entire EU, there is an equal amount who see the benefits of negotiating with an increasingly willing EU to find some common ground between EU interests and Serbian interests. I'm not surprised at Hungary's willingness to help Serbia since they benefit too by sharing a border with them.
With the arrest of Karadzic, a pro-EU government in Belgrade, and an EU ready to bend over backwards for Serbia's ascension, I see Serbia's long-deserved reintegration into Europe a reality more than ever.
Yes Mike, Hungary would benefit too from a Serbian membership in the EU...no doubt about it. And the shrinking, economically drifting Hungarian minority in Vojvodina would gain a lot. They would feel less cut-off from the mother country. The Hungarians of Slovakia and Rumania are now moving back and fort. Nobody questions the current borders anymore.
There is a sort of Hungarian re-unification over the borders. Nobody s/b treatened.
In case of Serbia what the current EU-members want is simply make sure that Serbia accept the rules of the game of the union..accepted by all members.
To restore good relations with Serbia that is way to little and more creative ideas have to be implemented. Maybe negotiating about Hungarian minority in Vojvodina in exchange of denouncing the UDI as a criminal act plus withdraw all support of the illegal maffiosi "government" in Pristina?
That will give the current government a huge boost against the populists-nationalists (FIDESZ) of V. Orbán.
And as for UDI....She
http://tinyurl.com/6hkkud
should ask the spirit of her latte father, what is his opinion about Kosovo UDI and the Hungarian recognition of Kosovo. Than go to a doctor and let him help her to locate her own backbone.
If Serbia would be a normal European country like most of them than it would respect the rights of its Hungarian minority REGARDLESS of external, meaning Hungarian government's decisions.
Doing otherwise is blackmail.
What you are suggesting is appaisement, appaisement, caving in to blackmail. Appaisement of any kind never worked.
Also the UDI is criminal for you but not for the democratic minded countries and people, who are not blind and know why it came about, know what happened in the nineties.
And by the way before you would label me an Orban fan I want to point out that I was never fond of that little populist.
About Kinga Goncz I don't have any special opinion. Still label her as without backbone find it pretty unfair.
Yea sure Luigi....clear out the Slavs and albanians, and bring all the africans(and they are coming, whether you like it or not). That's exactly the plan of the EU, makes a lot of sense...
In reality it doesn't but if you lack objectivity it might.
@Mr Joe
yes reading B92 I have discovered how big is Serbian Ego (maybe as French but with less reasons )..
reality is that They are a poor country with less than 9 milions inhabitants and with an almost dismised army but they think themself as an almighty power ready to dominate the Balkans...
the truth is that even Russia is making their cause very softly !you have seen during the election period.. no money no industrial investments no lending, only words and some bottles of wodka... so their only open door (and hope ) is Eu but..we are in crisis politically and economically so the sitation is...
bad !
@Joe: I was wrong than and thanks for being (unlike most of the immigration) critical to the - as you say - "little populist". He may be indeed "little" but his ambitions are even more than of Мирјана Марковић. As some insiders suggest, certain (late) president of YU was merely her lapdog. However, your strong anti-Serb bias is close to the view of some radicals in Hungary and Hungarian immigration in USA - hence my mistake. If luckily I am wrong, please do yourself a favor and if you have time travel to Serbia for a short visit. Belgrade is only 26 Euro round-trip from Hungary and Crna Gora coast is a mere 66 Euro round-trip (you can include ad many stop-overs as you like within one month):
http://tinyurl.com/5fpxev
Otherwise - you could be surprised - Serbia is a normal European country. The situation with Hungarian minority is not bad, probably THE BEST compared with other neighbor countries. There is always a room for improvement tough. This is not blackmail, only negotiations. At last, Hungarians were not forced to paint the trash bins in Subotica "red-blue-white" (remember the crazy Gheorghe Funar in Kolozsvár/Cluj with Romanian tricolor trash bins? Luckily, he is gone now). If you argue without been in Serbia recently it is like arguing how many angels can fit on the tip of a needle.
As far as Ms. Göncz: she is the head of the Foreign Ministry. She is responsible for what is happening there. The way the Foreign Ministry acted was underhanded to Hungarian minority in Serbia. It was against prudent proposals of moderate Hungarian conservatives. It was a cowardly act. Serbian minority in Hungary still exists, it made some few protests - but they were not considered. There are very few if any historic links between Hungarians and Albanians, only numerous silly jokes about Albanian "power". Let me omit these racist Hungarian jokes. In that context it is obvious, among Hungarian population towards Albania there is indifference at best and "looking down" at worst. That means, there was zero popular support for UDI in Hungary. The government based on K.G. proposal recognized the UDI "coincidently" the same time as Croatia and Bulgaria. Which allowed them finger-point to each other: "it was actually the other two, who did". This is why it was a cowardly act. The timing (visa-free travel promise from bushy-boy) was also suspicious. What can you say? She is the head of that office and they acted like a bunch of cowards.
UDI is criminal at least because it was pronounced by a regime full of suspected mobsters, gangsters, rapists, organ-traders, drugsters, pimps. These activities represent a miniscule part of K-Albanians, but it seems, the negative selection works there well. I am not alone in Hungary to say that: in March 2004 Hungarian police because of Interpol warrant arrested agim ceku alias "pigeon", but they had to release him following pressure by UNMIK. That means, until March 2004 that was also the official opinion in Hungary:
http://tinyurl.com/6ympoc
Read this link, please and tell me what you think about the lack of backbone issue after that.
Joe,
Your argument about Kosovo UDI being "criminal for you but not for the democratic minded countries and people, who are not blind and know why it came about, know what happened in the nineties" is wrong.
1) There is no single "democratic-minded" country on the Earth. Countries have more-less democratically more-less elected more-less governments. Once elected, these governments act on their own, often under umbrella of democracy but always for the interest of some groups. These groups are not democratic. To remember: Hitler was democratically elected, bush, too. So was Putin. Neither acts very democratically and all have/had certain powerful groups backing them. At this point I can say, Serbia (or Hungary) are perhaps among the few "most democratic" countries in the world with transparent elections and mafia acting behind the curtains being among the least powerful.
2) World's biggest "democracy" is India. It is larger than the rest of "democracies" combined. We know the Indian stance. You can of course "defuse" it with your "Jolly Joker" (see later about it) but simply because you apply the "Jolly Joker" it is not an argument :)
3) You were not in Serbia in 90-s. I am not sure, you ever been there. Your information probably comes from CNN/FOX and the rest. I do not claim to be insider either, but it is not tough to discover blatant lies spread by the above media. Why and how it happened - long story. It's not a "cover-up", just some political game.
The argument like "you are either not democratic or you just don't know what happened" is not an argument because it can be universally applied, like a Jolly Joker - just to suit your bias: "America is democratic, America is for UDI, so America knows. India is democratic, India is against the UDI, so it means India probably just does not know. Spain certainly does know, Spain is against UDI, so Spain is probably not democratic, yes, sure we can find the reason called Basque, OK, than this is also over".
@mr.Jevic
The stability of the Balkans ??
Here in Western europe no one cares of it !!
The only arguments that politician here use for the enlargement POLICY to W.B. is the hope of massive rempatriation of Slavs and Albanians from here to their motheland...
Really?? well for these EU states who "betrayed" Serbia by recognizing the kosovo UDI.are you willing to "drop" that recognition if Serbia fully cooperates with hague commmission??
Takenote the stability of the whole balkans depends on Serbia and Serbia will never enter EU without kosovo as it's province.
To restore good relations with Serbia that is way to little and more creative ideas have to be implemented. Maybe negotiating about Hungarian minority in Vojvodina in exchange of denouncing the UDI as a criminal act plus withdraw all support of the illegal maffiosi "government" in Pristina?
That will give the current government a huge boost against the populists-nationalists (FIDESZ) of V. Orbán.
And as for UDI....She
http://tinyurl.com/6hkkud
should ask the spirit of her latte father, what is his opinion about Kosovo UDI and the Hungarian recognition of Kosovo. Than go to a doctor and let him help her to locate her own backbone.
It looks very much as Serbia is eager to enter the EU even without Kosovo.
The economic incentives for it are just too tempting. Otherwise you would form a union with democratic Russia and Belarus.
You need the EU much, much more than the EU needs you.
Yes Mike, Hungary would benefit too from a Serbian membership in the EU...no doubt about it. And the shrinking, economically drifting Hungarian minority in Vojvodina would gain a lot. They would feel less cut-off from the mother country. The Hungarians of Slovakia and Rumania are now moving back and fort. Nobody questions the current borders anymore.
There is a sort of Hungarian re-unification over the borders. Nobody s/b treatened.
In case of Serbia what the current EU-members want is simply make sure that Serbia accept the rules of the game of the union..accepted by all members.
for these EU states who "betrayed" Serbia by recognizing the kosovo UDI (Jevic, 28 July 2008 11:10)
They did not betray Serbia, Jevic. They just had an anatomic problem and sudden could not locate their own backbone.
It is of a common knowledge in Hungary, the recognition was done by coincident few days apart as Hungarians got the promise from USA regarding the visa-free travel. So far, it is still a promise. It was pretty cleverly formulated and so far not materialized yet. The life is not perfect, if you deal with crooks like bush it's even less perfect.
@mr.Jevic
The stability of the Balkans ??
Here in Western europe no one cares of it !!
The only arguments that politician here use for the enlargement POLICY to W.B. is the hope of massive rempatriation of Slavs and Albanians from here to their motheland...
Yea sure Luigi....clear out the Slavs and albanians, and bring all the africans(and they are coming, whether you like it or not). That's exactly the plan of the EU, makes a lot of sense...
In reality it doesn't but if you lack objectivity it might.
About stability in the Balkans I had the same reaction as you. I just didn't want to mention it since one can be censured on B92 for little innocent things.
Anyway when Serbs mention this stability they always overrate their own importance. In this respect they far exceed even the French.
The reality is that in the former Eastern, communist part of Europe - between Western-Europe and Russia - the Poles are the only ones who have some weight. This was clear this year too when Poland had disagreements with the big ones like Germany and France.
@Mr Joe
yes reading B92 I have discovered how big is Serbian Ego (maybe as French but with less reasons )..
reality is that They are a poor country with less than 9 milions inhabitants and with an almost dismised army but they think themself as an almighty power ready to dominate the Balkans...
the truth is that even Russia is making their cause very softly !you have seen during the election period.. no money no industrial investments no lending, only words and some bottles of wodka... so their only open door (and hope ) is Eu but..we are in crisis politically and economically so the sitation is...
bad !
Ah, but Joe you tend to forget again that while Serbia may be a second-rate power in Europe, and hardly able to hold its own against more developed countries of Western Europe, it is of strategic importance to Southeastern Europe. The EU has made every effort to get Serbia on board and many see Serbia as the geographical keystone to the Balkans as it once was in Yugoslavia. Belgrade has enormous potential, just for being located where it is, for being the Berlin of the Balkans politically and economically. And yes, while there are many Serbs who think they can take on the entire EU, there is an equal amount who see the benefits of negotiating with an increasingly willing EU to find some common ground between EU interests and Serbian interests. I'm not surprised at Hungary's willingness to help Serbia since they benefit too by sharing a border with them.
With the arrest of Karadzic, a pro-EU government in Belgrade, and an EU ready to bend over backwards for Serbia's ascension, I see Serbia's long-deserved reintegration into Europe a reality more than ever.
If Serbia would be a normal European country like most of them than it would respect the rights of its Hungarian minority REGARDLESS of external, meaning Hungarian government's decisions.
Doing otherwise is blackmail.
What you are suggesting is appaisement, appaisement, caving in to blackmail. Appaisement of any kind never worked.
Also the UDI is criminal for you but not for the democratic minded countries and people, who are not blind and know why it came about, know what happened in the nineties.
And by the way before you would label me an Orban fan I want to point out that I was never fond of that little populist.
About Kinga Goncz I don't have any special opinion. Still label her as without backbone find it pretty unfair.
@Joe: I was wrong than and thanks for being (unlike most of the immigration) critical to the - as you say - "little populist". He may be indeed "little" but his ambitions are even more than of Мирјана Марковић. As some insiders suggest, certain (late) president of YU was merely her lapdog. However, your strong anti-Serb bias is close to the view of some radicals in Hungary and Hungarian immigration in USA - hence my mistake. If luckily I am wrong, please do yourself a favor and if you have time travel to Serbia for a short visit. Belgrade is only 26 Euro round-trip from Hungary and Crna Gora coast is a mere 66 Euro round-trip (you can include ad many stop-overs as you like within one month):
http://tinyurl.com/5fpxev
Otherwise - you could be surprised - Serbia is a normal European country. The situation with Hungarian minority is not bad, probably THE BEST compared with other neighbor countries. There is always a room for improvement tough. This is not blackmail, only negotiations. At last, Hungarians were not forced to paint the trash bins in Subotica "red-blue-white" (remember the crazy Gheorghe Funar in Kolozsvár/Cluj with Romanian tricolor trash bins? Luckily, he is gone now). If you argue without been in Serbia recently it is like arguing how many angels can fit on the tip of a needle.
As far as Ms. Göncz: she is the head of the Foreign Ministry. She is responsible for what is happening there. The way the Foreign Ministry acted was underhanded to Hungarian minority in Serbia. It was against prudent proposals of moderate Hungarian conservatives. It was a cowardly act. Serbian minority in Hungary still exists, it made some few protests - but they were not considered. There are very few if any historic links between Hungarians and Albanians, only numerous silly jokes about Albanian "power". Let me omit these racist Hungarian jokes. In that context it is obvious, among Hungarian population towards Albania there is indifference at best and "looking down" at worst. That means, there was zero popular support for UDI in Hungary. The government based on K.G. proposal recognized the UDI "coincidently" the same time as Croatia and Bulgaria. Which allowed them finger-point to each other: "it was actually the other two, who did". This is why it was a cowardly act. The timing (visa-free travel promise from bushy-boy) was also suspicious. What can you say? She is the head of that office and they acted like a bunch of cowards.
UDI is criminal at least because it was pronounced by a regime full of suspected mobsters, gangsters, rapists, organ-traders, drugsters, pimps. These activities represent a miniscule part of K-Albanians, but it seems, the negative selection works there well. I am not alone in Hungary to say that: in March 2004 Hungarian police because of Interpol warrant arrested agim ceku alias "pigeon", but they had to release him following pressure by UNMIK. That means, until March 2004 that was also the official opinion in Hungary:
http://tinyurl.com/6ympoc
Read this link, please and tell me what you think about the lack of backbone issue after that.
Joe,
Your argument about Kosovo UDI being "criminal for you but not for the democratic minded countries and people, who are not blind and know why it came about, know what happened in the nineties" is wrong.
1) There is no single "democratic-minded" country on the Earth. Countries have more-less democratically more-less elected more-less governments. Once elected, these governments act on their own, often under umbrella of democracy but always for the interest of some groups. These groups are not democratic. To remember: Hitler was democratically elected, bush, too. So was Putin. Neither acts very democratically and all have/had certain powerful groups backing them. At this point I can say, Serbia (or Hungary) are perhaps among the few "most democratic" countries in the world with transparent elections and mafia acting behind the curtains being among the least powerful.
2) World's biggest "democracy" is India. It is larger than the rest of "democracies" combined. We know the Indian stance. You can of course "defuse" it with your "Jolly Joker" (see later about it) but simply because you apply the "Jolly Joker" it is not an argument :)
3) You were not in Serbia in 90-s. I am not sure, you ever been there. Your information probably comes from CNN/FOX and the rest. I do not claim to be insider either, but it is not tough to discover blatant lies spread by the above media. Why and how it happened - long story. It's not a "cover-up", just some political game.
The argument like "you are either not democratic or you just don't know what happened" is not an argument because it can be universally applied, like a Jolly Joker - just to suit your bias: "America is democratic, America is for UDI, so America knows. India is democratic, India is against the UDI, so it means India probably just does not know. Spain certainly does know, Spain is against UDI, so Spain is probably not democratic, yes, sure we can find the reason called Basque, OK, than this is also over".
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