7

Friday, 25.07.2008.

15:26

Macedonia: New name for Thessaloniki airport

Reports say there will be another round of talks on the Macedonia name row in August.

Izvor: Mandy Jacobson

Macedonia: New name for Thessaloniki airport IMAGE SOURCE
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7 Komentari

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Peter

pre 15 godina

FYROM* “By resolution A/RES/47/225 of 8 April 1993, the General Assembly decided to admit as a Member of the United Nations the State being provisionally referred to for all purposes within the United Nations as "The former Yugoslav Republic of Macedonia" pending settlement of the difference that had arisen over its name”. --- http://www.un.org/Overview/unmember.html

http://www.macedonian-heritage.gr/HellenicMacedonia/en/topic_5_1.html http://www.helleniccomserve.com/fyromlomis.html
http://www.macedonian-heritage.gr/FAQ.html
http://historyofmacedonia.wordpress.com
http://www.macedonia.info/

It was communist leaders Tito and Stalin who renamed Vardarska/FYROM* to “Macedonia” in the 1940s and ordered a covert communist invasion of northern Greece in an attempt to occupy territory for the Soviet Union. Fortunately the US Marshal Plan saved Greece and its people. Former United States Secretary of State Edward Stettinius, Jr, said “talk of a Macedonian nation is unjustified demagoguery representing no ethnic nor political reality” and is “a cloak for aggressive intentions against Greece”.

Vardarska/FYROM* has made claims on the northern Greek province Macedonia with fabrications that the Greek Macedonian heritage is its own. Vardarska/FYROM* is using the name "Macedonia", it has renamed its principle airport "Alexander the Great", it used USA AID money to promote its claim on the Greek Macedonian Heritage and territory on the yahoo internet portal, and continues to this date to teach in its schools and military that its territory stretches as far south into Greece as Mt Olympus, and the three million Greeks who live in northern Greece are somehow Vardarskans who have been brainwashed to think that they are Greek. All this in direct violation with the binding UN agreements it has signed not to do so, thus prompting over 120 members of the United States Congress to introduce H.Res.356 asking Vardarska/FYROM* to stop its propaganda and abide by international law. The historical and unequivocally facts are:

1 Over 70% of the land of the ancient Greek kingdom of Macedonia is part of present day Greece and has been for some 3000 years, long before the southern part of Yugoslavia decided to secede in 1991.

2 Pella, the capital of ancient Macedonia is in Greece.

3 Skopje, the capital of Vardarska/FYROM*, is outside of the ancient kingdom of Macedonia. Less than 20% of ancient Macedonia is within the borders of Vardarska/FYROM*.

4 The part of Yugoslavia which seceded in 1991 and wants to call itself "Macedonia" was called Vardarska and Pirin by its own people until the mid 1940's when the communist leader Tito in direct instructions from Stalin renamed it to "Macedonia" in order to gain an excuse to invade Greece and gain sea access to the Mediterranean for the Soviet Union.

5 The people of Vardarska/FYROM* do not speak Macedonian, they speak Slavic dialects of Bulgarian and Serbian. The true Macedonian's speak Greek. In fact there is no Macedonian language.

6 Thousands upon thousands of archeological Macedonian items excavated from the empire of Alexander the Great have only Greek inscriptions and writings on them furnishing concrete evidence that the Macedonians are Greek and their language is Greek.

7 More than 25% of the people of Vardarska/FYROM* are Albanians

8 Vardarska/FYROM* is actually the hard land of Dardania, which was the principle enemy of the Macedonians in the ancient times.

9 The former President of Vardarska/FYROM*, Kiro Gligorov said: “We are Slavs who came to this area in the sixth century ... we are not descendants of the ancient Macedonians" (Foreign Information Service Daily Report, Eastern Europe, February 26, 1992, p. 35).

10 Greece is the most important economic and political stabilizing force in the Balkans, and the biggest trading partner to Vardarska/FYROM*. Instead of thanking Greece Vardarska/FYROM* is stabbing it on the back.

11 The prime minister of Greece, Costas Karamanlis, was born in Macedonia and proudly proclaimed "I am a Macedonian and I am Greek"

The language of the people of Vardarska/FYROM* is a mixture of Serbian and Bulgarian and has no link whatsoever to the language of the Macedonian’s who spoke and speak Greek. A wealth in unprecedented numbers (over 5,000) of Greek inscriptions and engravings from archaeological excavations, which are found until today all over Greece and the territories of the former empire of Alexandros III (Alexander The Great) furnish concrete evidence that the Macedonians are Greek and their language is Greek.

The most recent authoritative assessment of the Ancient Macedonian dialect is provided by the eminent Emeritus Professor of the University of Paris, Olivier Masson, in the recent edition (1996) of “THE OXFORD CLASSICAL DICTIONARY” 3rd edition, 1996, Oxford U. Press, (Oxford, New York) pp. 905-6: “For a long while Macedonian onomastics, which we know relatively well thanks to history, literary authors, and epigraphy, has played a considerable role in the discussion. In our view the Greek character of most names is obvious and it is difficult to think of a Hellenization due to wholesale borrowing... Macedonian may then be seen as a Greek dialect, characterized by its marginal position and by local pronunciations. Yet in contrast with earlier views which made of it an Aeolic dialect we must by now think of a link with North-West Greek... We must wait for new discoveries, but we may tentatively conclude that Macedonian is a dialect related to North-West Greek”.
Slavists have for a long time used the term “Macedonian” in its geographical context, in order to describe a number of Southwestern Bulgarian dialects, spoken in the broader geographic area of ancient Macedonia. From the beginning of the 20th century to the 1940s, a series of international scholars have written on this subject: Tracts and scientific papers have been written by such linguists as V. Oblak (Macedonische Studien. Die slavischen Dialekte des suedlichen und nordwestlichen Macedoniens, Wien 1896), A. Mazon (Conte slaves de la Macedoine sud-occidentale, Paris 1923), A. Vaillant (“Le probleme du slave macedonien” In: Bulettin de la societe de la linguistique de Paris, 1938, No. 39, pp.195-210), A. Belic’ (La Macedoine, etudes ethnographiques et politiques, avec cartes Paris & Barcelone, 1949), A. Selischchev (Ocherki po makedonskoj dialektologij. Spb 1918, Sofia 1981. They all refer to the slavic dialects of Vardarska/FYROM* as Bulgarian.”

It is time that the world community refer the this state by a name appropriate for it based on history and geography.

1. Republic of Skopje - most people of that country live in or around this metropolitan area, which is also the capital of this country.

2. Republic of Vardarska - This the actual geographic name of the region in which this entire country resides, and was the actual name for this country used by the very citizens of that country until communist leaders Tito and Stalin in collaboration forced then to stop using it.

3. Republic of Dardania - This region is the heartland of the ancient kingdom of Dardania, a well know province of the Roman and Byzantine empires, and also referred to as such by ancient historians.

4. Republic of Pirin - Another geographical reference for the region in which this country resides. This reference is also in use to this date.

Nikitas

pre 15 godina

@3 Napred

Nice comments :)
Shall we start?

"To all Athenian posters"
Not all Greeks are Athenians, not all Greek posters here are Athenians, I for example am Makedonian, therefor I am Greek.

"Can you guys prove that you are more Macedonian than the ones in Vardar Macedonia?"
Thats easy. The Makedonians are here in Greece. Vardar Macedonia has no Makedonians at all, maybe Turks, Roma, Slavs, albanians etc.
Besides we dont need to prove anything. We are not the ones claiming we are of a non existing ethnicity you call Makedonians. You are, therefor You have to prove it :)

"1)The slavs migrated to Macedonia ...//... has Ancient Macedonian in it..?"
These are 2 very interesting points here. First you agree you are slavs. And second, of course you could have some ancient Macedonian blood in you, if only the places you are residing now were Makedonian, which werent actually. Maybe the southern fyromians have a connection to the Greeks, being of ancient Makedonian blood line, but I feel it must be lost by now or it is too oppressed to come out :)

"2)Are Bulgarians completely Slavs"
I couldnt care less.

"You are probably going tell me you speak Greek hence the ancient Macedonians were greek hence your Macedoniasm"
No. The other way around. The ancient Makedonians, because they were Greek, they were speaking their own Greek dialect which was very common for all Greek tribes until the Koine came to unify all of them.
Your assumption has an incorrect starting point.

"4)Can you prove to me or anyone else that you dont have Slavic, Albanian or Turkic in you??"
I dont need to. I am not the one in question. You are, you have to prove that.

"5)Were ancient Greeks blonde haired and blue eyed?"
No they werent. They were dark haired with eye color varying from black to dark green, but not blue.


"on that basis you must definately have Turkish blood in you guys considering you are so dark and hairy..."
On what basis exactly? You are founding your comment on the wrong assumption again.

For the 2 last comments above. I have told you before and I am telling you again, but of course you didnt bother to check the other time:
Take a good look at the wallpaintings of Santorini and Festos (phestos) in Crete. If you see those people as blond with blue eyes, then you are perfectly right and I am wrong :)

"we can not claim to be anymore Macedonian than you"
Actually you cannot claim to be anymore Macedonian at all.

"god bless from Voden Macedonia!!!…!! (Thats Edessa to the non Macedonians) :)"
That is one beautyful place to go, Edessa. You know, the name Edessa is much more ancient than the migration of you fyromian Slavs in this area, and was used much before you rename it to Vodena, due to its plenty waters (Voda in slavic means water). So there goes the argument used oftenly, that the Greeks changed the place names from slavic to greek. Actually the Greeks restored the placenames that the slavs have changed in the first place :)
Btw, I really and honestly hope you have a wonderful time in Edessa :)

NapredMakedonija

pre 15 godina

To all Athenian posters.. its rather obvious that our two countries will never come to an agreement as each side genuinely believes in its own theory regarding Macedonia... rite or wrong etc etc As for governments lets not even go there.. for christ sakes the Greek government claims that their are no ethnic minoroties in Greece... their thought process says it all.. your government is just as loony as ours!

Furthermore Can you guys prove that you are more Macedonian than the ones in Vardar Macedonia?

Some points to consider!

1)The slavs migrated to Macedonia and merged with the local population.. hence it is more than likely that our blood line has Ancient Macedonian in it..?

2)Are Bulgarians completely Slavs? after all they got their name after merging with the local Bulgars who were originally of Turkic stock yet modern Bulgarians speak a slavic language??

3)You are probably going tell me you speak Greek hence the ancient Macedonians were greek hence your Macedoniasm... are you really Greek just because you speak Greek? after all i'm assuming we live in Anglo Saxon countries and that we speak English, does that make us Anglo Saxons??

4)Can you prove to me or anyone else that you dont have Slavic, Albanian or Turkic in you?? I'm pretty confident you may have Slavic roots considering Slavs have been a majority in certains parts of Greece through various times in History..

5)Were ancient Greeks blonde haired and blue eyed? on that basis you must definately have Turkish blood in you guys considering you are so dark and hairy...

Point is.. people change languages change.. we can not claim to be anymore Macedonian than you and vice versa...

Unrelated to the above.. the highest rates of Male baldness in Europe is found in Macedonia and Greece... are we really that different?? heheheh ..

Anway i'm off to Macedonia tomorrow hopefully I dont get beaten up by those peace loving creaters of Democracy Greeks.. the greeks are really democratic as they really respect the theory of right to self determination and freedom of speech.. have a great weekend! god bless from Voden Macedonia!!!!!!!!!!!!! (Thats Edessa to the non Macedonians) :)

Nikitas

pre 15 godina

I can only say one thing:
Thank you mr Gruefski for supporting our just cause. Thank you for showing to whoever is listening to you anymore, that we have to deal with ridiculous people.

P.S. Exept Panama and recently Angela Merkel, there are rumors that more countries are going to withdraw the support to the fyromians and start calling the country by its proper name. FYROM.

Leonidas

pre 15 godina

Gruevski's comedy show continues.Whereas UN resolution 817 stipulates the only outstanding issue between greece and fyrom is the name,Gruevski insists on unearthing unrelated issues such as language,ethnicity and minorities.
Bulgaria refuses to recognise
a separate language and ethnicity and Greece has already stated that there are no slav-speaking monorities in the country.
Their so-called minorities only managed to get 2500 votes in each of the last two elections.
Gruevski's laughabl populism can be also confirmed by his
decision to invite the prince
and princess of the Hunza tribe of northen Pakistan into his country who claim to be the descendants of ancient
macedonians.He rolled out the
red carpet at the airport and
a bishop blessed the Hunza delegation.He even authorised
DNA research into the links between Fyromians & Hunza which proved negative.
Ana Petruseva country director for the balkan Reporting net work said that
" Everyone who's a bit educated is laughing at all
this.The country has become the laughing stock of the world".
Balkan nationalism has failed
miserably in solving any problem concerning the populations at large.Gruevski
practices the same nationalism which will exacerbate poverty into his country and lead into tensions
between the different groups
that make up his country.

Leonidas

pre 15 godina

Gruevski's comedy show continues.Whereas UN resolution 817 stipulates the only outstanding issue between greece and fyrom is the name,Gruevski insists on unearthing unrelated issues such as language,ethnicity and minorities.
Bulgaria refuses to recognise
a separate language and ethnicity and Greece has already stated that there are no slav-speaking monorities in the country.
Their so-called minorities only managed to get 2500 votes in each of the last two elections.
Gruevski's laughabl populism can be also confirmed by his
decision to invite the prince
and princess of the Hunza tribe of northen Pakistan into his country who claim to be the descendants of ancient
macedonians.He rolled out the
red carpet at the airport and
a bishop blessed the Hunza delegation.He even authorised
DNA research into the links between Fyromians & Hunza which proved negative.
Ana Petruseva country director for the balkan Reporting net work said that
" Everyone who's a bit educated is laughing at all
this.The country has become the laughing stock of the world".
Balkan nationalism has failed
miserably in solving any problem concerning the populations at large.Gruevski
practices the same nationalism which will exacerbate poverty into his country and lead into tensions
between the different groups
that make up his country.

Nikitas

pre 15 godina

I can only say one thing:
Thank you mr Gruefski for supporting our just cause. Thank you for showing to whoever is listening to you anymore, that we have to deal with ridiculous people.

P.S. Exept Panama and recently Angela Merkel, there are rumors that more countries are going to withdraw the support to the fyromians and start calling the country by its proper name. FYROM.

Nikitas

pre 15 godina

@3 Napred

Nice comments :)
Shall we start?

"To all Athenian posters"
Not all Greeks are Athenians, not all Greek posters here are Athenians, I for example am Makedonian, therefor I am Greek.

"Can you guys prove that you are more Macedonian than the ones in Vardar Macedonia?"
Thats easy. The Makedonians are here in Greece. Vardar Macedonia has no Makedonians at all, maybe Turks, Roma, Slavs, albanians etc.
Besides we dont need to prove anything. We are not the ones claiming we are of a non existing ethnicity you call Makedonians. You are, therefor You have to prove it :)

"1)The slavs migrated to Macedonia ...//... has Ancient Macedonian in it..?"
These are 2 very interesting points here. First you agree you are slavs. And second, of course you could have some ancient Macedonian blood in you, if only the places you are residing now were Makedonian, which werent actually. Maybe the southern fyromians have a connection to the Greeks, being of ancient Makedonian blood line, but I feel it must be lost by now or it is too oppressed to come out :)

"2)Are Bulgarians completely Slavs"
I couldnt care less.

"You are probably going tell me you speak Greek hence the ancient Macedonians were greek hence your Macedoniasm"
No. The other way around. The ancient Makedonians, because they were Greek, they were speaking their own Greek dialect which was very common for all Greek tribes until the Koine came to unify all of them.
Your assumption has an incorrect starting point.

"4)Can you prove to me or anyone else that you dont have Slavic, Albanian or Turkic in you??"
I dont need to. I am not the one in question. You are, you have to prove that.

"5)Were ancient Greeks blonde haired and blue eyed?"
No they werent. They were dark haired with eye color varying from black to dark green, but not blue.


"on that basis you must definately have Turkish blood in you guys considering you are so dark and hairy..."
On what basis exactly? You are founding your comment on the wrong assumption again.

For the 2 last comments above. I have told you before and I am telling you again, but of course you didnt bother to check the other time:
Take a good look at the wallpaintings of Santorini and Festos (phestos) in Crete. If you see those people as blond with blue eyes, then you are perfectly right and I am wrong :)

"we can not claim to be anymore Macedonian than you"
Actually you cannot claim to be anymore Macedonian at all.

"god bless from Voden Macedonia!!!…!! (Thats Edessa to the non Macedonians) :)"
That is one beautyful place to go, Edessa. You know, the name Edessa is much more ancient than the migration of you fyromian Slavs in this area, and was used much before you rename it to Vodena, due to its plenty waters (Voda in slavic means water). So there goes the argument used oftenly, that the Greeks changed the place names from slavic to greek. Actually the Greeks restored the placenames that the slavs have changed in the first place :)
Btw, I really and honestly hope you have a wonderful time in Edessa :)

Peter

pre 15 godina

FYROM* “By resolution A/RES/47/225 of 8 April 1993, the General Assembly decided to admit as a Member of the United Nations the State being provisionally referred to for all purposes within the United Nations as "The former Yugoslav Republic of Macedonia" pending settlement of the difference that had arisen over its name”. --- http://www.un.org/Overview/unmember.html

http://www.macedonian-heritage.gr/HellenicMacedonia/en/topic_5_1.html http://www.helleniccomserve.com/fyromlomis.html
http://www.macedonian-heritage.gr/FAQ.html
http://historyofmacedonia.wordpress.com
http://www.macedonia.info/

It was communist leaders Tito and Stalin who renamed Vardarska/FYROM* to “Macedonia” in the 1940s and ordered a covert communist invasion of northern Greece in an attempt to occupy territory for the Soviet Union. Fortunately the US Marshal Plan saved Greece and its people. Former United States Secretary of State Edward Stettinius, Jr, said “talk of a Macedonian nation is unjustified demagoguery representing no ethnic nor political reality” and is “a cloak for aggressive intentions against Greece”.

Vardarska/FYROM* has made claims on the northern Greek province Macedonia with fabrications that the Greek Macedonian heritage is its own. Vardarska/FYROM* is using the name "Macedonia", it has renamed its principle airport "Alexander the Great", it used USA AID money to promote its claim on the Greek Macedonian Heritage and territory on the yahoo internet portal, and continues to this date to teach in its schools and military that its territory stretches as far south into Greece as Mt Olympus, and the three million Greeks who live in northern Greece are somehow Vardarskans who have been brainwashed to think that they are Greek. All this in direct violation with the binding UN agreements it has signed not to do so, thus prompting over 120 members of the United States Congress to introduce H.Res.356 asking Vardarska/FYROM* to stop its propaganda and abide by international law. The historical and unequivocally facts are:

1 Over 70% of the land of the ancient Greek kingdom of Macedonia is part of present day Greece and has been for some 3000 years, long before the southern part of Yugoslavia decided to secede in 1991.

2 Pella, the capital of ancient Macedonia is in Greece.

3 Skopje, the capital of Vardarska/FYROM*, is outside of the ancient kingdom of Macedonia. Less than 20% of ancient Macedonia is within the borders of Vardarska/FYROM*.

4 The part of Yugoslavia which seceded in 1991 and wants to call itself "Macedonia" was called Vardarska and Pirin by its own people until the mid 1940's when the communist leader Tito in direct instructions from Stalin renamed it to "Macedonia" in order to gain an excuse to invade Greece and gain sea access to the Mediterranean for the Soviet Union.

5 The people of Vardarska/FYROM* do not speak Macedonian, they speak Slavic dialects of Bulgarian and Serbian. The true Macedonian's speak Greek. In fact there is no Macedonian language.

6 Thousands upon thousands of archeological Macedonian items excavated from the empire of Alexander the Great have only Greek inscriptions and writings on them furnishing concrete evidence that the Macedonians are Greek and their language is Greek.

7 More than 25% of the people of Vardarska/FYROM* are Albanians

8 Vardarska/FYROM* is actually the hard land of Dardania, which was the principle enemy of the Macedonians in the ancient times.

9 The former President of Vardarska/FYROM*, Kiro Gligorov said: “We are Slavs who came to this area in the sixth century ... we are not descendants of the ancient Macedonians" (Foreign Information Service Daily Report, Eastern Europe, February 26, 1992, p. 35).

10 Greece is the most important economic and political stabilizing force in the Balkans, and the biggest trading partner to Vardarska/FYROM*. Instead of thanking Greece Vardarska/FYROM* is stabbing it on the back.

11 The prime minister of Greece, Costas Karamanlis, was born in Macedonia and proudly proclaimed "I am a Macedonian and I am Greek"

The language of the people of Vardarska/FYROM* is a mixture of Serbian and Bulgarian and has no link whatsoever to the language of the Macedonian’s who spoke and speak Greek. A wealth in unprecedented numbers (over 5,000) of Greek inscriptions and engravings from archaeological excavations, which are found until today all over Greece and the territories of the former empire of Alexandros III (Alexander The Great) furnish concrete evidence that the Macedonians are Greek and their language is Greek.

The most recent authoritative assessment of the Ancient Macedonian dialect is provided by the eminent Emeritus Professor of the University of Paris, Olivier Masson, in the recent edition (1996) of “THE OXFORD CLASSICAL DICTIONARY” 3rd edition, 1996, Oxford U. Press, (Oxford, New York) pp. 905-6: “For a long while Macedonian onomastics, which we know relatively well thanks to history, literary authors, and epigraphy, has played a considerable role in the discussion. In our view the Greek character of most names is obvious and it is difficult to think of a Hellenization due to wholesale borrowing... Macedonian may then be seen as a Greek dialect, characterized by its marginal position and by local pronunciations. Yet in contrast with earlier views which made of it an Aeolic dialect we must by now think of a link with North-West Greek... We must wait for new discoveries, but we may tentatively conclude that Macedonian is a dialect related to North-West Greek”.
Slavists have for a long time used the term “Macedonian” in its geographical context, in order to describe a number of Southwestern Bulgarian dialects, spoken in the broader geographic area of ancient Macedonia. From the beginning of the 20th century to the 1940s, a series of international scholars have written on this subject: Tracts and scientific papers have been written by such linguists as V. Oblak (Macedonische Studien. Die slavischen Dialekte des suedlichen und nordwestlichen Macedoniens, Wien 1896), A. Mazon (Conte slaves de la Macedoine sud-occidentale, Paris 1923), A. Vaillant (“Le probleme du slave macedonien” In: Bulettin de la societe de la linguistique de Paris, 1938, No. 39, pp.195-210), A. Belic’ (La Macedoine, etudes ethnographiques et politiques, avec cartes Paris & Barcelone, 1949), A. Selischchev (Ocherki po makedonskoj dialektologij. Spb 1918, Sofia 1981. They all refer to the slavic dialects of Vardarska/FYROM* as Bulgarian.”

It is time that the world community refer the this state by a name appropriate for it based on history and geography.

1. Republic of Skopje - most people of that country live in or around this metropolitan area, which is also the capital of this country.

2. Republic of Vardarska - This the actual geographic name of the region in which this entire country resides, and was the actual name for this country used by the very citizens of that country until communist leaders Tito and Stalin in collaboration forced then to stop using it.

3. Republic of Dardania - This region is the heartland of the ancient kingdom of Dardania, a well know province of the Roman and Byzantine empires, and also referred to as such by ancient historians.

4. Republic of Pirin - Another geographical reference for the region in which this country resides. This reference is also in use to this date.

NapredMakedonija

pre 15 godina

To all Athenian posters.. its rather obvious that our two countries will never come to an agreement as each side genuinely believes in its own theory regarding Macedonia... rite or wrong etc etc As for governments lets not even go there.. for christ sakes the Greek government claims that their are no ethnic minoroties in Greece... their thought process says it all.. your government is just as loony as ours!

Furthermore Can you guys prove that you are more Macedonian than the ones in Vardar Macedonia?

Some points to consider!

1)The slavs migrated to Macedonia and merged with the local population.. hence it is more than likely that our blood line has Ancient Macedonian in it..?

2)Are Bulgarians completely Slavs? after all they got their name after merging with the local Bulgars who were originally of Turkic stock yet modern Bulgarians speak a slavic language??

3)You are probably going tell me you speak Greek hence the ancient Macedonians were greek hence your Macedoniasm... are you really Greek just because you speak Greek? after all i'm assuming we live in Anglo Saxon countries and that we speak English, does that make us Anglo Saxons??

4)Can you prove to me or anyone else that you dont have Slavic, Albanian or Turkic in you?? I'm pretty confident you may have Slavic roots considering Slavs have been a majority in certains parts of Greece through various times in History..

5)Were ancient Greeks blonde haired and blue eyed? on that basis you must definately have Turkish blood in you guys considering you are so dark and hairy...

Point is.. people change languages change.. we can not claim to be anymore Macedonian than you and vice versa...

Unrelated to the above.. the highest rates of Male baldness in Europe is found in Macedonia and Greece... are we really that different?? heheheh ..

Anway i'm off to Macedonia tomorrow hopefully I dont get beaten up by those peace loving creaters of Democracy Greeks.. the greeks are really democratic as they really respect the theory of right to self determination and freedom of speech.. have a great weekend! god bless from Voden Macedonia!!!!!!!!!!!!! (Thats Edessa to the non Macedonians) :)

Leonidas

pre 15 godina

Gruevski's comedy show continues.Whereas UN resolution 817 stipulates the only outstanding issue between greece and fyrom is the name,Gruevski insists on unearthing unrelated issues such as language,ethnicity and minorities.
Bulgaria refuses to recognise
a separate language and ethnicity and Greece has already stated that there are no slav-speaking monorities in the country.
Their so-called minorities only managed to get 2500 votes in each of the last two elections.
Gruevski's laughabl populism can be also confirmed by his
decision to invite the prince
and princess of the Hunza tribe of northen Pakistan into his country who claim to be the descendants of ancient
macedonians.He rolled out the
red carpet at the airport and
a bishop blessed the Hunza delegation.He even authorised
DNA research into the links between Fyromians & Hunza which proved negative.
Ana Petruseva country director for the balkan Reporting net work said that
" Everyone who's a bit educated is laughing at all
this.The country has become the laughing stock of the world".
Balkan nationalism has failed
miserably in solving any problem concerning the populations at large.Gruevski
practices the same nationalism which will exacerbate poverty into his country and lead into tensions
between the different groups
that make up his country.

Nikitas

pre 15 godina

I can only say one thing:
Thank you mr Gruefski for supporting our just cause. Thank you for showing to whoever is listening to you anymore, that we have to deal with ridiculous people.

P.S. Exept Panama and recently Angela Merkel, there are rumors that more countries are going to withdraw the support to the fyromians and start calling the country by its proper name. FYROM.

NapredMakedonija

pre 15 godina

To all Athenian posters.. its rather obvious that our two countries will never come to an agreement as each side genuinely believes in its own theory regarding Macedonia... rite or wrong etc etc As for governments lets not even go there.. for christ sakes the Greek government claims that their are no ethnic minoroties in Greece... their thought process says it all.. your government is just as loony as ours!

Furthermore Can you guys prove that you are more Macedonian than the ones in Vardar Macedonia?

Some points to consider!

1)The slavs migrated to Macedonia and merged with the local population.. hence it is more than likely that our blood line has Ancient Macedonian in it..?

2)Are Bulgarians completely Slavs? after all they got their name after merging with the local Bulgars who were originally of Turkic stock yet modern Bulgarians speak a slavic language??

3)You are probably going tell me you speak Greek hence the ancient Macedonians were greek hence your Macedoniasm... are you really Greek just because you speak Greek? after all i'm assuming we live in Anglo Saxon countries and that we speak English, does that make us Anglo Saxons??

4)Can you prove to me or anyone else that you dont have Slavic, Albanian or Turkic in you?? I'm pretty confident you may have Slavic roots considering Slavs have been a majority in certains parts of Greece through various times in History..

5)Were ancient Greeks blonde haired and blue eyed? on that basis you must definately have Turkish blood in you guys considering you are so dark and hairy...

Point is.. people change languages change.. we can not claim to be anymore Macedonian than you and vice versa...

Unrelated to the above.. the highest rates of Male baldness in Europe is found in Macedonia and Greece... are we really that different?? heheheh ..

Anway i'm off to Macedonia tomorrow hopefully I dont get beaten up by those peace loving creaters of Democracy Greeks.. the greeks are really democratic as they really respect the theory of right to self determination and freedom of speech.. have a great weekend! god bless from Voden Macedonia!!!!!!!!!!!!! (Thats Edessa to the non Macedonians) :)

Nikitas

pre 15 godina

@3 Napred

Nice comments :)
Shall we start?

"To all Athenian posters"
Not all Greeks are Athenians, not all Greek posters here are Athenians, I for example am Makedonian, therefor I am Greek.

"Can you guys prove that you are more Macedonian than the ones in Vardar Macedonia?"
Thats easy. The Makedonians are here in Greece. Vardar Macedonia has no Makedonians at all, maybe Turks, Roma, Slavs, albanians etc.
Besides we dont need to prove anything. We are not the ones claiming we are of a non existing ethnicity you call Makedonians. You are, therefor You have to prove it :)

"1)The slavs migrated to Macedonia ...//... has Ancient Macedonian in it..?"
These are 2 very interesting points here. First you agree you are slavs. And second, of course you could have some ancient Macedonian blood in you, if only the places you are residing now were Makedonian, which werent actually. Maybe the southern fyromians have a connection to the Greeks, being of ancient Makedonian blood line, but I feel it must be lost by now or it is too oppressed to come out :)

"2)Are Bulgarians completely Slavs"
I couldnt care less.

"You are probably going tell me you speak Greek hence the ancient Macedonians were greek hence your Macedoniasm"
No. The other way around. The ancient Makedonians, because they were Greek, they were speaking their own Greek dialect which was very common for all Greek tribes until the Koine came to unify all of them.
Your assumption has an incorrect starting point.

"4)Can you prove to me or anyone else that you dont have Slavic, Albanian or Turkic in you??"
I dont need to. I am not the one in question. You are, you have to prove that.

"5)Were ancient Greeks blonde haired and blue eyed?"
No they werent. They were dark haired with eye color varying from black to dark green, but not blue.


"on that basis you must definately have Turkish blood in you guys considering you are so dark and hairy..."
On what basis exactly? You are founding your comment on the wrong assumption again.

For the 2 last comments above. I have told you before and I am telling you again, but of course you didnt bother to check the other time:
Take a good look at the wallpaintings of Santorini and Festos (phestos) in Crete. If you see those people as blond with blue eyes, then you are perfectly right and I am wrong :)

"we can not claim to be anymore Macedonian than you"
Actually you cannot claim to be anymore Macedonian at all.

"god bless from Voden Macedonia!!!…!! (Thats Edessa to the non Macedonians) :)"
That is one beautyful place to go, Edessa. You know, the name Edessa is much more ancient than the migration of you fyromian Slavs in this area, and was used much before you rename it to Vodena, due to its plenty waters (Voda in slavic means water). So there goes the argument used oftenly, that the Greeks changed the place names from slavic to greek. Actually the Greeks restored the placenames that the slavs have changed in the first place :)
Btw, I really and honestly hope you have a wonderful time in Edessa :)

Peter

pre 15 godina

FYROM* “By resolution A/RES/47/225 of 8 April 1993, the General Assembly decided to admit as a Member of the United Nations the State being provisionally referred to for all purposes within the United Nations as "The former Yugoslav Republic of Macedonia" pending settlement of the difference that had arisen over its name”. --- http://www.un.org/Overview/unmember.html

http://www.macedonian-heritage.gr/HellenicMacedonia/en/topic_5_1.html http://www.helleniccomserve.com/fyromlomis.html
http://www.macedonian-heritage.gr/FAQ.html
http://historyofmacedonia.wordpress.com
http://www.macedonia.info/

It was communist leaders Tito and Stalin who renamed Vardarska/FYROM* to “Macedonia” in the 1940s and ordered a covert communist invasion of northern Greece in an attempt to occupy territory for the Soviet Union. Fortunately the US Marshal Plan saved Greece and its people. Former United States Secretary of State Edward Stettinius, Jr, said “talk of a Macedonian nation is unjustified demagoguery representing no ethnic nor political reality” and is “a cloak for aggressive intentions against Greece”.

Vardarska/FYROM* has made claims on the northern Greek province Macedonia with fabrications that the Greek Macedonian heritage is its own. Vardarska/FYROM* is using the name "Macedonia", it has renamed its principle airport "Alexander the Great", it used USA AID money to promote its claim on the Greek Macedonian Heritage and territory on the yahoo internet portal, and continues to this date to teach in its schools and military that its territory stretches as far south into Greece as Mt Olympus, and the three million Greeks who live in northern Greece are somehow Vardarskans who have been brainwashed to think that they are Greek. All this in direct violation with the binding UN agreements it has signed not to do so, thus prompting over 120 members of the United States Congress to introduce H.Res.356 asking Vardarska/FYROM* to stop its propaganda and abide by international law. The historical and unequivocally facts are:

1 Over 70% of the land of the ancient Greek kingdom of Macedonia is part of present day Greece and has been for some 3000 years, long before the southern part of Yugoslavia decided to secede in 1991.

2 Pella, the capital of ancient Macedonia is in Greece.

3 Skopje, the capital of Vardarska/FYROM*, is outside of the ancient kingdom of Macedonia. Less than 20% of ancient Macedonia is within the borders of Vardarska/FYROM*.

4 The part of Yugoslavia which seceded in 1991 and wants to call itself "Macedonia" was called Vardarska and Pirin by its own people until the mid 1940's when the communist leader Tito in direct instructions from Stalin renamed it to "Macedonia" in order to gain an excuse to invade Greece and gain sea access to the Mediterranean for the Soviet Union.

5 The people of Vardarska/FYROM* do not speak Macedonian, they speak Slavic dialects of Bulgarian and Serbian. The true Macedonian's speak Greek. In fact there is no Macedonian language.

6 Thousands upon thousands of archeological Macedonian items excavated from the empire of Alexander the Great have only Greek inscriptions and writings on them furnishing concrete evidence that the Macedonians are Greek and their language is Greek.

7 More than 25% of the people of Vardarska/FYROM* are Albanians

8 Vardarska/FYROM* is actually the hard land of Dardania, which was the principle enemy of the Macedonians in the ancient times.

9 The former President of Vardarska/FYROM*, Kiro Gligorov said: “We are Slavs who came to this area in the sixth century ... we are not descendants of the ancient Macedonians" (Foreign Information Service Daily Report, Eastern Europe, February 26, 1992, p. 35).

10 Greece is the most important economic and political stabilizing force in the Balkans, and the biggest trading partner to Vardarska/FYROM*. Instead of thanking Greece Vardarska/FYROM* is stabbing it on the back.

11 The prime minister of Greece, Costas Karamanlis, was born in Macedonia and proudly proclaimed "I am a Macedonian and I am Greek"

The language of the people of Vardarska/FYROM* is a mixture of Serbian and Bulgarian and has no link whatsoever to the language of the Macedonian’s who spoke and speak Greek. A wealth in unprecedented numbers (over 5,000) of Greek inscriptions and engravings from archaeological excavations, which are found until today all over Greece and the territories of the former empire of Alexandros III (Alexander The Great) furnish concrete evidence that the Macedonians are Greek and their language is Greek.

The most recent authoritative assessment of the Ancient Macedonian dialect is provided by the eminent Emeritus Professor of the University of Paris, Olivier Masson, in the recent edition (1996) of “THE OXFORD CLASSICAL DICTIONARY” 3rd edition, 1996, Oxford U. Press, (Oxford, New York) pp. 905-6: “For a long while Macedonian onomastics, which we know relatively well thanks to history, literary authors, and epigraphy, has played a considerable role in the discussion. In our view the Greek character of most names is obvious and it is difficult to think of a Hellenization due to wholesale borrowing... Macedonian may then be seen as a Greek dialect, characterized by its marginal position and by local pronunciations. Yet in contrast with earlier views which made of it an Aeolic dialect we must by now think of a link with North-West Greek... We must wait for new discoveries, but we may tentatively conclude that Macedonian is a dialect related to North-West Greek”.
Slavists have for a long time used the term “Macedonian” in its geographical context, in order to describe a number of Southwestern Bulgarian dialects, spoken in the broader geographic area of ancient Macedonia. From the beginning of the 20th century to the 1940s, a series of international scholars have written on this subject: Tracts and scientific papers have been written by such linguists as V. Oblak (Macedonische Studien. Die slavischen Dialekte des suedlichen und nordwestlichen Macedoniens, Wien 1896), A. Mazon (Conte slaves de la Macedoine sud-occidentale, Paris 1923), A. Vaillant (“Le probleme du slave macedonien” In: Bulettin de la societe de la linguistique de Paris, 1938, No. 39, pp.195-210), A. Belic’ (La Macedoine, etudes ethnographiques et politiques, avec cartes Paris & Barcelone, 1949), A. Selischchev (Ocherki po makedonskoj dialektologij. Spb 1918, Sofia 1981. They all refer to the slavic dialects of Vardarska/FYROM* as Bulgarian.”

It is time that the world community refer the this state by a name appropriate for it based on history and geography.

1. Republic of Skopje - most people of that country live in or around this metropolitan area, which is also the capital of this country.

2. Republic of Vardarska - This the actual geographic name of the region in which this entire country resides, and was the actual name for this country used by the very citizens of that country until communist leaders Tito and Stalin in collaboration forced then to stop using it.

3. Republic of Dardania - This region is the heartland of the ancient kingdom of Dardania, a well know province of the Roman and Byzantine empires, and also referred to as such by ancient historians.

4. Republic of Pirin - Another geographical reference for the region in which this country resides. This reference is also in use to this date.