Government ministers and opposition parties have reacted to the <a href="http://www.b92.net/eng/news/politics-article.php?yyyy=2008&mm=07&dd=21&nav_id=52098" class="text-link" target= "_blank">arrest of Radovan Karadžić</a>.
Kosovo would still have that autonomy if all they wanted was better rights. Instead they used their power to intimidate Serbs into leaving Kosovo. This policy continues today in Kosovo.
Albanian protests in Kosovo from the 1970's are clear examples of this.
(Nicholas Klinsman, 22 July 2008 19:08)
Nicholas,
Albanian protests of the 1970’s were not of a separatist nature.
The protests were directed to the issue of the human rights (Albanian).
The movement requested the acknowledgment of the Albanian entity in the YU.
The result was the implementation of the 1974 constitution which in some form gave Kosovo Albanians the basic human rights (political and education).
After Tito’s death the movements to annul the 1974 constitution could be felt (breeze coming from Serbia).
Thus the 1980 demonstrations (to preserve what Kosovo Albanians had earned with blood).
Kosovo Albanians knew that autonomy given in 74 would be taken away (as it did with tanks) thus the Republic status was sought.
The rest you should know.
Nicholas, a bogeyman is a fictitious character.
The people that are to blame have names and faces and everybody knows who they are.
Look at all the Serbian enemies supporting Tadic and his deeds.
Anyone who voted Tadic should see now what a mess they made. Is Serbia so easily sold?
To the people of Serbia, all I can say is now live with your decision. You have caved in to join the club that bombed you. What will be their next demand?
If you don't have the will to protect the people who protected you then you are not to be protected yourselves. You want Russia to support you. Why should they when you don't support your own?
The longer the Serbian people take to acknowledge the crimes: Karadzic, Mladic & Co, the more painful will be the realization of how much damage was done to their reputation.
Hey out there,
Do you need a visa to visit Bulgaria, I think you do because Bulgaria is in the EU. I remember my father telling me that with the Yougoslav Passport you could go even to China if you wanted without a visa, and also remember him telling me about how a respected power Yougoslavia was, fortunately is not any more. I have to admit you and your state is in a really bad shape and do you ask yourself why is it so, or why in 2008, you can not even go to Bulgaria without a visa, well it is so because of Radovan Karadzices and Milosevices and Ratko Mladices you have there. Serbia stop selfcounting, look at the perspective, forget Kosovo’s independence (that’s a finished issue), “liberalize the visa-s”.
Nenad, with this current government Serbia offers everything. The whole country is for sale - you can buy a few political parties, whole regions of land and larges parts of the population - assuming you have the right contacts. Isn't that great!?
But why are you concerned about what Serbia can offer the world? Why is that so important when the country has no self-respect?
We are talking about a country that sits by quietly while criminals that killed its civilians walk free but then offers those that defended it to the lions - and straight afterwards?
A country that sits by quietly while an attempted land grab takes place but still continues to promote and negotiate with those very nations and people that are dissecting your heart?
That Nenad, is a country that does not respect itself and until it does it will never offer anything to the world, except maybe some cheap labour and its freedom!
Give them an inch and they'll take a mile! Defend your people and nation Nenad - be proud and respect others but never allow anyone to take your soul otherwise you'll end up in the scrap heap just like most others. I'll leave you with this piece of wisdom taken from the bible:
"Enter through the narrow gate. For wide is the gate and broad is the road that leads to destruction, and many enter through it. But small is the gate and narrow the road that leads to life, and only a few find it."
I think history will show Tadic for who he really is. It will show Kostunica as the true defender of Serbian interests and Serbian integrity.
It is now very, very clear who Tadic works for. I look at CNN and see Dick Holbrooke, Christiane Amanpour, Solana, Albright....all giving interviews and smiling from ear to ear. The biggest enemies of the Serbian people (and biggest war criminals) are smiling, what does this tell you?? Wake up Serbia!!
Don't allow these puppets to send Karadzic to that political circus of a kangaroo court!
When a Serb sends another Serb to prison for defending his nation against Turks, Karadjordje must be rolling over in his grave.
I'd say you're making some pretty cheap assumptions yourself. I have no loyalty to the Western cause, I can assure you. But tell me, please, what is it about Serbia that we all have to look forward to in the future? What special qualities will distinguish Serbs from all the other peoples of the world? Will it be the Serbs who spearhead some great enviromental movement? Will it be a Serbian politician who steers the world toward widespread and lasting peace? And what can you show me as a prior example of Serbia's extraordinary prowess in improving the world?
I honestly wonder when will nationalist nutcases in the Balkans and elsewhere realize that love for your country is not excuse to butcher and torture as you please? Is this really that hard a concept to grasp?
Karadzic and Mladic should have been in the Hague a long time ago. Even with the delay it is a welcome step forward for Serbia to hand one of them over. Congratulations.
To some here, these two were heroes. In my book they're cowards. If they were at peace with what they did in Bosnia, they should have voluntarily surrendered to the Hague and made their case there rather than hide like rats for 17 years.
Regarding Kosovo, neither side should read too much into the handover of Karadzic. They are two separate issues.
All I can say, is that Serbia took one further step forward to polishing its image. Kosovo should take notice and polish up its own image too...maybe starting with the curbing of Thaci government's apetite for million-euro lunch expenditures.
My biggest issue here is the fact that the Hague tribunal is a kangaroo court. The Hague is all about politics and not about justice. Karadzic did nothing worse than Izetbegovic, Thaci, or Tudjman.
There is no justice without truth.
Blero asked, "Why is that former YU nation’s wanted to separate from Serbia?"
The nationalistic and expansionist movements that have developed in the Balkans have nothing to do with Serbian govt policy. Those nationalist movements were trying to carve out land long before Slobodan Milosevic or Radovan Karadzic came to power. The WWII ustashe movement and the Albanian protests in Kosovo from the 1970's are clear examples of this.
Moreover, the Macedonian-Albanian conflict as well as the Bosnian Muslim-Croat battles are clear proof that troubles in the Balkans go far beyond blaming any Serbian boogeyman that you want to make up.
And what is the reality of the modern age Nenad? To get on our knees and to accept the demands of the world dictators?
If you are the subservient type then go ahead and be their slave but I certainly have a bit more pride in me!
When my people and nation are attacked, I will certainly speak up and make my opinion heard! What do you have to offer? A few cheap assumptions about what I represent?
i get sick of this 17 year story that everything will be fine, if we get together with our natural enemy eu and do what they demand (for their propaganda)!
btw. i´m neither a corporation-multi nor a farmer, so i am automatically a eu-enterin-loser , so why should i enter it? where is my benefit?
"Stand firm and be patient. Our time will come once again."
Time for what? 500 years of Ottoman subjugation? 35 years of submission to Tito, a man of Croat and Slovene extraction? If the Serbian nation is so great, why is it that we have to go back to the 14th century to point to any "golden age"? ZK, you and all your Serbian nationalist friends ought to consider the reality of the modern age. Serbia is no great player in this world and arguably has never been. She's made her contributions, to be sure, but so have many others. And lately, contributions are few and far between. As you nationalists sing ever more loudly about Serbia's greatness, I see more and more evidence of that greatness crumbling. Kosovo is gone forever, whether Serbia chooses to recognize this or not. RS will grudgingly learn to accept that it is part of Bosnia, and not Serbia. Many Montenegrins seem to have forsaken their Serbian identity and now claim to both be and speak "Montenegrin". People like you dream of a Greater Serbia but look at any map and you'll find a lesser one. Soon you'll be in the EU and gobbled up by that much more significant political entity (but which, hopefully, will bring a much better quality of life to all those living in the Balkans than the likes of Tito or Milosevic ever delivered).
Ah, but I'm probably wasting my time. You'll blame the West for all of Serbia's woes -- as if the West ever really cared about the Balkans -- and defend mad warloads like Karadzic as "heroes". Well, good luck to you. Let's see where Serbia is in 10-15 years.
The comments on both sides today are too extreme in outlook.
First, Serbia as some of my colleagues from Team Kosovo are saying, will not disappear. Tadic will not sell Serbia down the river, and if some think that Karadzic is/was some equivalent to Mihailovic, or some symbol of Serbian defiance, it's an incredibly introverted outlook. RS is not going to disappear, nor will it be forcibly reintegrated with Bosnia. Serbia is not going to shrink either. I really don't know where some people are getting this idea from, and if this is all SRS can come up with, it's a weak defense indeed.
As some members of Camp Kosova are saying that now Serbia needs, or will, recognize Kosovo's independence, that's even more ridiculous than the "Serbia is going to disappear" story. This government has made it clear it will fight for BG's rights over Kosovo with all diplomatic and legal means possible. I consider Karadzic's arrest a new form of strategic leverage over Kosovo - make good on outstanding commitments from the 1990s to place yourself in a better negotiating postion over Kosovo. While this may not revoke sovereignty, it will surely make many EU members more ammenable to Serbia assuming a greater role and greater responsiblity over the Serb sectors.
All of this is one big negotiated wheel and deal. We're giving DS too much ideological zeal. They're playing backroom politics with EUrocrats in order to win more support for Kosovo, and they're playing it to the EU's tune. Watch and see how and where the cards fall over the next few months.
I mean if nothing else, it can't be any worse than Kostunica's stonewalling.
I have to agree with Python,
Slovenia is gone (a lot of industry with it,) Croatia, Kosovo, Montenegro and Rep Sprska will not be allowed to join Serbia unless they give up a lot of land. The mighty Serbia is gone, a smaller and poorer one is left, and the Hungarians are aiming for Vojvodina http://arieshu.wordpress.com/2008/06/19/the-mourning-peace-trianon-smaller-hungary/
Moreover, now Croatia is armed, so are the Bosniaks and the 6.5 million Albanians.
PRN, why are you begging Serbia to recognise Kosovo? According to you and your like, "Kosova" is already independent so why should you care what Serbia does?
Go and enjoy your independence by all means instead of constantly repeating some nonsense about recognition.
I think Karadžić (like Mladic) is guilty of many horrible things and if he was a real patriot, he should have knocked on the Hague's door himself and not let his country be bullied because of him.
But guilty as well are also other people of other nationalities still at large.
Last night a huge burden and weight was taken from the shoulders of Serbia and put on the shoulders of the world. Anything else, except a fair and well documented trial with testimonies from all sides and a honest desire in finding the full and unbiased truth, will disgrace and ashame not only the Hague Tribunal, but also the international justice system as we know it. An "accident" or "sudden death" of Karadžić would be the last nail in the coffin oance called justice. (though I am reticent about it)
BTW, I too think Serbia made a huge step towards EU and I really don't see any sign of joy for K-separatists.
Unfortunately I can only agree with Mr Vucic here. His predictions about Serbia's future will certainly come to life unless there is a substantial change in the Serbian nation's thinking. Serbia will enter the EU, there is no doubt about that, but she will not do so as a whole. Serbia will enter the EU in pieces with each piece being given to a neighbouring country and the local Serbian population becoming an ethnic minority within that country, with all minority rights guaranteed of course ala Ahtisaari plan (sarcasm intended). Serbs are already a minority in neighbouring Croatia, Bosnia, Montenegro and Kosovo. The rest is to be divided between Hungary, Bulgaria, Albania and possibly others. Serbs have only themselves to blame though, not because of their war crimes, since all sides committed them more or less, but because most of them have clearly shown to the West that they can be bought easily by a cheap bag of carrots. And the West will use this opportunity.
This government is bunch of chickens and faithful EU obedient. This government is the cheapest ever and the most disgraceful in the history of Serbia. This is clear message to the Westerners that they are allowed to do what ever they like to Serbia, to buy Serbia’s national assets for cheap and enslave Serbs as cheap labour. All this is done just for getting the status of the EU candidate and possible lifting of strict visa regime. However, they are fools if they think that that will be all. There are new conditions that our beloved politicians will encounter and most probably fulfil at any costs.
This government is no different than that one after the IIWW when all the Serbs (non-communists) were arrested for alleged war crimes against domestic population. What this government failed to acknowledge or understand is that the West is not their friend but the traitor and that will , I expect, be revealed in near future. If the West was real Serbian ally and friend then General Mihailovic wouldn’t be charged for alleged crimes and first of all Tito or communists would never be new leaders of Yugoslavia.
West, however, chooses to protect communists (already during the war and abandones true democrates and royalists) and gave their strongest support for creation of freaking post-war Yugoslavia. If nothing else, at least one life, the life of General Mihailovich could be saved had Mr Churchill made only one phone call. But that never happened and the rest is a history.
After IIWW there was Tito’s court for alleged war criminals and nowadays there is court in Hague that operates only for Serbs and its function turned into anti-Serbian policy.
We can now argue what crimes Mr Karadzic committed as we used to argue about General Mihailovic crimes. It is still all fresh and many historical facts are forged in order to demonise Serbs.
I hope after some decades we will learn that our Generals were not evil blood thirsty beasts (often compared as such) but fine personas as General Mihailovic was. All our generals in the past, and as I can see nowadays too, must pay by their heads just for higher political interests, but I afraid that this hand-over will just serve for personal political gain (of DS) for just few more years in the power.
This is a government, cheapest ever, with no vision for the future, for our personal interests, for country's interests, for our national identity. The only vision of this government is to somehow enter the EU at any costs, and totally clueless what after? Sad, indeed.
Nice to know who your heroes are BK47.
Do you ever ask yourself BK47 why is that former YU nation’s wanted to separate from Serbia? It is people like you that did the decision easier.
According to this SRS official, the first such favor was the return of recalled ambassadors to EU countries, the second the arrest last night, while the third will be "recognition of Kosovo within a year".
--
Serbia is in a truly sad state at the moment and it is obvious the world dictators have a hold on power and will do everything and anything to destroy the freedom Serbians deserve.
Stand firm and be patient. Our time will come once again. History repeats and Serbians have always been victorious so keep the faith!
We have been in worse situations before but the will of Serbians can outlive any occupation and dictatorship as history has shown!
Nice to know who your heroes are BK47.
Do you ever ask yourself BK47 why is that former YU nation’s wanted to separate from Serbia? It is people like you that did the decision easier.
According to this SRS official, the first such favor was the return of recalled ambassadors to EU countries, the second the arrest last night, while the third will be "recognition of Kosovo within a year".
--
Serbia is in a truly sad state at the moment and it is obvious the world dictators have a hold on power and will do everything and anything to destroy the freedom Serbians deserve.
Stand firm and be patient. Our time will come once again. History repeats and Serbians have always been victorious so keep the faith!
We have been in worse situations before but the will of Serbians can outlive any occupation and dictatorship as history has shown!
"Stand firm and be patient. Our time will come once again."
Time for what? 500 years of Ottoman subjugation? 35 years of submission to Tito, a man of Croat and Slovene extraction? If the Serbian nation is so great, why is it that we have to go back to the 14th century to point to any "golden age"? ZK, you and all your Serbian nationalist friends ought to consider the reality of the modern age. Serbia is no great player in this world and arguably has never been. She's made her contributions, to be sure, but so have many others. And lately, contributions are few and far between. As you nationalists sing ever more loudly about Serbia's greatness, I see more and more evidence of that greatness crumbling. Kosovo is gone forever, whether Serbia chooses to recognize this or not. RS will grudgingly learn to accept that it is part of Bosnia, and not Serbia. Many Montenegrins seem to have forsaken their Serbian identity and now claim to both be and speak "Montenegrin". People like you dream of a Greater Serbia but look at any map and you'll find a lesser one. Soon you'll be in the EU and gobbled up by that much more significant political entity (but which, hopefully, will bring a much better quality of life to all those living in the Balkans than the likes of Tito or Milosevic ever delivered).
Ah, but I'm probably wasting my time. You'll blame the West for all of Serbia's woes -- as if the West ever really cared about the Balkans -- and defend mad warloads like Karadzic as "heroes". Well, good luck to you. Let's see where Serbia is in 10-15 years.
This government is bunch of chickens and faithful EU obedient. This government is the cheapest ever and the most disgraceful in the history of Serbia. This is clear message to the Westerners that they are allowed to do what ever they like to Serbia, to buy Serbia’s national assets for cheap and enslave Serbs as cheap labour. All this is done just for getting the status of the EU candidate and possible lifting of strict visa regime. However, they are fools if they think that that will be all. There are new conditions that our beloved politicians will encounter and most probably fulfil at any costs.
This government is no different than that one after the IIWW when all the Serbs (non-communists) were arrested for alleged war crimes against domestic population. What this government failed to acknowledge or understand is that the West is not their friend but the traitor and that will , I expect, be revealed in near future. If the West was real Serbian ally and friend then General Mihailovic wouldn’t be charged for alleged crimes and first of all Tito or communists would never be new leaders of Yugoslavia.
West, however, chooses to protect communists (already during the war and abandones true democrates and royalists) and gave their strongest support for creation of freaking post-war Yugoslavia. If nothing else, at least one life, the life of General Mihailovich could be saved had Mr Churchill made only one phone call. But that never happened and the rest is a history.
After IIWW there was Tito’s court for alleged war criminals and nowadays there is court in Hague that operates only for Serbs and its function turned into anti-Serbian policy.
We can now argue what crimes Mr Karadzic committed as we used to argue about General Mihailovic crimes. It is still all fresh and many historical facts are forged in order to demonise Serbs.
I hope after some decades we will learn that our Generals were not evil blood thirsty beasts (often compared as such) but fine personas as General Mihailovic was. All our generals in the past, and as I can see nowadays too, must pay by their heads just for higher political interests, but I afraid that this hand-over will just serve for personal political gain (of DS) for just few more years in the power.
This is a government, cheapest ever, with no vision for the future, for our personal interests, for country's interests, for our national identity. The only vision of this government is to somehow enter the EU at any costs, and totally clueless what after? Sad, indeed.
PRN, why are you begging Serbia to recognise Kosovo? According to you and your like, "Kosova" is already independent so why should you care what Serbia does?
Go and enjoy your independence by all means instead of constantly repeating some nonsense about recognition.
I think history will show Tadic for who he really is. It will show Kostunica as the true defender of Serbian interests and Serbian integrity.
It is now very, very clear who Tadic works for. I look at CNN and see Dick Holbrooke, Christiane Amanpour, Solana, Albright....all giving interviews and smiling from ear to ear. The biggest enemies of the Serbian people (and biggest war criminals) are smiling, what does this tell you?? Wake up Serbia!!
Don't allow these puppets to send Karadzic to that political circus of a kangaroo court!
When a Serb sends another Serb to prison for defending his nation against Turks, Karadjordje must be rolling over in his grave.
My biggest issue here is the fact that the Hague tribunal is a kangaroo court. The Hague is all about politics and not about justice. Karadzic did nothing worse than Izetbegovic, Thaci, or Tudjman.
There is no justice without truth.
Blero asked, "Why is that former YU nation’s wanted to separate from Serbia?"
The nationalistic and expansionist movements that have developed in the Balkans have nothing to do with Serbian govt policy. Those nationalist movements were trying to carve out land long before Slobodan Milosevic or Radovan Karadzic came to power. The WWII ustashe movement and the Albanian protests in Kosovo from the 1970's are clear examples of this.
Moreover, the Macedonian-Albanian conflict as well as the Bosnian Muslim-Croat battles are clear proof that troubles in the Balkans go far beyond blaming any Serbian boogeyman that you want to make up.
i get sick of this 17 year story that everything will be fine, if we get together with our natural enemy eu and do what they demand (for their propaganda)!
btw. i´m neither a corporation-multi nor a farmer, so i am automatically a eu-enterin-loser , so why should i enter it? where is my benefit?
And what is the reality of the modern age Nenad? To get on our knees and to accept the demands of the world dictators?
If you are the subservient type then go ahead and be their slave but I certainly have a bit more pride in me!
When my people and nation are attacked, I will certainly speak up and make my opinion heard! What do you have to offer? A few cheap assumptions about what I represent?
Unfortunately I can only agree with Mr Vucic here. His predictions about Serbia's future will certainly come to life unless there is a substantial change in the Serbian nation's thinking. Serbia will enter the EU, there is no doubt about that, but she will not do so as a whole. Serbia will enter the EU in pieces with each piece being given to a neighbouring country and the local Serbian population becoming an ethnic minority within that country, with all minority rights guaranteed of course ala Ahtisaari plan (sarcasm intended). Serbs are already a minority in neighbouring Croatia, Bosnia, Montenegro and Kosovo. The rest is to be divided between Hungary, Bulgaria, Albania and possibly others. Serbs have only themselves to blame though, not because of their war crimes, since all sides committed them more or less, but because most of them have clearly shown to the West that they can be bought easily by a cheap bag of carrots. And the West will use this opportunity.
I think Karadžić (like Mladic) is guilty of many horrible things and if he was a real patriot, he should have knocked on the Hague's door himself and not let his country be bullied because of him.
But guilty as well are also other people of other nationalities still at large.
Last night a huge burden and weight was taken from the shoulders of Serbia and put on the shoulders of the world. Anything else, except a fair and well documented trial with testimonies from all sides and a honest desire in finding the full and unbiased truth, will disgrace and ashame not only the Hague Tribunal, but also the international justice system as we know it. An "accident" or "sudden death" of Karadžić would be the last nail in the coffin oance called justice. (though I am reticent about it)
BTW, I too think Serbia made a huge step towards EU and I really don't see any sign of joy for K-separatists.
The comments on both sides today are too extreme in outlook.
First, Serbia as some of my colleagues from Team Kosovo are saying, will not disappear. Tadic will not sell Serbia down the river, and if some think that Karadzic is/was some equivalent to Mihailovic, or some symbol of Serbian defiance, it's an incredibly introverted outlook. RS is not going to disappear, nor will it be forcibly reintegrated with Bosnia. Serbia is not going to shrink either. I really don't know where some people are getting this idea from, and if this is all SRS can come up with, it's a weak defense indeed.
As some members of Camp Kosova are saying that now Serbia needs, or will, recognize Kosovo's independence, that's even more ridiculous than the "Serbia is going to disappear" story. This government has made it clear it will fight for BG's rights over Kosovo with all diplomatic and legal means possible. I consider Karadzic's arrest a new form of strategic leverage over Kosovo - make good on outstanding commitments from the 1990s to place yourself in a better negotiating postion over Kosovo. While this may not revoke sovereignty, it will surely make many EU members more ammenable to Serbia assuming a greater role and greater responsiblity over the Serb sectors.
All of this is one big negotiated wheel and deal. We're giving DS too much ideological zeal. They're playing backroom politics with EUrocrats in order to win more support for Kosovo, and they're playing it to the EU's tune. Watch and see how and where the cards fall over the next few months.
I mean if nothing else, it can't be any worse than Kostunica's stonewalling.
Look at all the Serbian enemies supporting Tadic and his deeds.
Anyone who voted Tadic should see now what a mess they made. Is Serbia so easily sold?
To the people of Serbia, all I can say is now live with your decision. You have caved in to join the club that bombed you. What will be their next demand?
If you don't have the will to protect the people who protected you then you are not to be protected yourselves. You want Russia to support you. Why should they when you don't support your own?
Albanian protests in Kosovo from the 1970's are clear examples of this.
(Nicholas Klinsman, 22 July 2008 19:08)
Nicholas,
Albanian protests of the 1970’s were not of a separatist nature.
The protests were directed to the issue of the human rights (Albanian).
The movement requested the acknowledgment of the Albanian entity in the YU.
The result was the implementation of the 1974 constitution which in some form gave Kosovo Albanians the basic human rights (political and education).
After Tito’s death the movements to annul the 1974 constitution could be felt (breeze coming from Serbia).
Thus the 1980 demonstrations (to preserve what Kosovo Albanians had earned with blood).
Kosovo Albanians knew that autonomy given in 74 would be taken away (as it did with tanks) thus the Republic status was sought.
The rest you should know.
Nicholas, a bogeyman is a fictitious character.
The people that are to blame have names and faces and everybody knows who they are.
I have to agree with Python,
Slovenia is gone (a lot of industry with it,) Croatia, Kosovo, Montenegro and Rep Sprska will not be allowed to join Serbia unless they give up a lot of land. The mighty Serbia is gone, a smaller and poorer one is left, and the Hungarians are aiming for Vojvodina http://arieshu.wordpress.com/2008/06/19/the-mourning-peace-trianon-smaller-hungary/
Moreover, now Croatia is armed, so are the Bosniaks and the 6.5 million Albanians.
I honestly wonder when will nationalist nutcases in the Balkans and elsewhere realize that love for your country is not excuse to butcher and torture as you please? Is this really that hard a concept to grasp?
Karadzic and Mladic should have been in the Hague a long time ago. Even with the delay it is a welcome step forward for Serbia to hand one of them over. Congratulations.
To some here, these two were heroes. In my book they're cowards. If they were at peace with what they did in Bosnia, they should have voluntarily surrendered to the Hague and made their case there rather than hide like rats for 17 years.
Regarding Kosovo, neither side should read too much into the handover of Karadzic. They are two separate issues.
All I can say, is that Serbia took one further step forward to polishing its image. Kosovo should take notice and polish up its own image too...maybe starting with the curbing of Thaci government's apetite for million-euro lunch expenditures.
Nenad, with this current government Serbia offers everything. The whole country is for sale - you can buy a few political parties, whole regions of land and larges parts of the population - assuming you have the right contacts. Isn't that great!?
But why are you concerned about what Serbia can offer the world? Why is that so important when the country has no self-respect?
We are talking about a country that sits by quietly while criminals that killed its civilians walk free but then offers those that defended it to the lions - and straight afterwards?
A country that sits by quietly while an attempted land grab takes place but still continues to promote and negotiate with those very nations and people that are dissecting your heart?
That Nenad, is a country that does not respect itself and until it does it will never offer anything to the world, except maybe some cheap labour and its freedom!
Give them an inch and they'll take a mile! Defend your people and nation Nenad - be proud and respect others but never allow anyone to take your soul otherwise you'll end up in the scrap heap just like most others. I'll leave you with this piece of wisdom taken from the bible:
"Enter through the narrow gate. For wide is the gate and broad is the road that leads to destruction, and many enter through it. But small is the gate and narrow the road that leads to life, and only a few find it."
Kosovo would still have that autonomy if all they wanted was better rights. Instead they used their power to intimidate Serbs into leaving Kosovo. This policy continues today in Kosovo.
I'd say you're making some pretty cheap assumptions yourself. I have no loyalty to the Western cause, I can assure you. But tell me, please, what is it about Serbia that we all have to look forward to in the future? What special qualities will distinguish Serbs from all the other peoples of the world? Will it be the Serbs who spearhead some great enviromental movement? Will it be a Serbian politician who steers the world toward widespread and lasting peace? And what can you show me as a prior example of Serbia's extraordinary prowess in improving the world?
The longer the Serbian people take to acknowledge the crimes: Karadzic, Mladic & Co, the more painful will be the realization of how much damage was done to their reputation.
Hey out there,
Do you need a visa to visit Bulgaria, I think you do because Bulgaria is in the EU. I remember my father telling me that with the Yougoslav Passport you could go even to China if you wanted without a visa, and also remember him telling me about how a respected power Yougoslavia was, fortunately is not any more. I have to admit you and your state is in a really bad shape and do you ask yourself why is it so, or why in 2008, you can not even go to Bulgaria without a visa, well it is so because of Radovan Karadzices and Milosevices and Ratko Mladices you have there. Serbia stop selfcounting, look at the perspective, forget Kosovo’s independence (that’s a finished issue), “liberalize the visa-s”.
Nice to know who your heroes are BK47.
Do you ever ask yourself BK47 why is that former YU nation’s wanted to separate from Serbia? It is people like you that did the decision easier.
I have to agree with Python,
Slovenia is gone (a lot of industry with it,) Croatia, Kosovo, Montenegro and Rep Sprska will not be allowed to join Serbia unless they give up a lot of land. The mighty Serbia is gone, a smaller and poorer one is left, and the Hungarians are aiming for Vojvodina http://arieshu.wordpress.com/2008/06/19/the-mourning-peace-trianon-smaller-hungary/
Moreover, now Croatia is armed, so are the Bosniaks and the 6.5 million Albanians.
"Stand firm and be patient. Our time will come once again."
Time for what? 500 years of Ottoman subjugation? 35 years of submission to Tito, a man of Croat and Slovene extraction? If the Serbian nation is so great, why is it that we have to go back to the 14th century to point to any "golden age"? ZK, you and all your Serbian nationalist friends ought to consider the reality of the modern age. Serbia is no great player in this world and arguably has never been. She's made her contributions, to be sure, but so have many others. And lately, contributions are few and far between. As you nationalists sing ever more loudly about Serbia's greatness, I see more and more evidence of that greatness crumbling. Kosovo is gone forever, whether Serbia chooses to recognize this or not. RS will grudgingly learn to accept that it is part of Bosnia, and not Serbia. Many Montenegrins seem to have forsaken their Serbian identity and now claim to both be and speak "Montenegrin". People like you dream of a Greater Serbia but look at any map and you'll find a lesser one. Soon you'll be in the EU and gobbled up by that much more significant political entity (but which, hopefully, will bring a much better quality of life to all those living in the Balkans than the likes of Tito or Milosevic ever delivered).
Ah, but I'm probably wasting my time. You'll blame the West for all of Serbia's woes -- as if the West ever really cared about the Balkans -- and defend mad warloads like Karadzic as "heroes". Well, good luck to you. Let's see where Serbia is in 10-15 years.
Unfortunately I can only agree with Mr Vucic here. His predictions about Serbia's future will certainly come to life unless there is a substantial change in the Serbian nation's thinking. Serbia will enter the EU, there is no doubt about that, but she will not do so as a whole. Serbia will enter the EU in pieces with each piece being given to a neighbouring country and the local Serbian population becoming an ethnic minority within that country, with all minority rights guaranteed of course ala Ahtisaari plan (sarcasm intended). Serbs are already a minority in neighbouring Croatia, Bosnia, Montenegro and Kosovo. The rest is to be divided between Hungary, Bulgaria, Albania and possibly others. Serbs have only themselves to blame though, not because of their war crimes, since all sides committed them more or less, but because most of them have clearly shown to the West that they can be bought easily by a cheap bag of carrots. And the West will use this opportunity.
The longer the Serbian people take to acknowledge the crimes: Karadzic, Mladic & Co, the more painful will be the realization of how much damage was done to their reputation.
This government is bunch of chickens and faithful EU obedient. This government is the cheapest ever and the most disgraceful in the history of Serbia. This is clear message to the Westerners that they are allowed to do what ever they like to Serbia, to buy Serbia’s national assets for cheap and enslave Serbs as cheap labour. All this is done just for getting the status of the EU candidate and possible lifting of strict visa regime. However, they are fools if they think that that will be all. There are new conditions that our beloved politicians will encounter and most probably fulfil at any costs.
This government is no different than that one after the IIWW when all the Serbs (non-communists) were arrested for alleged war crimes against domestic population. What this government failed to acknowledge or understand is that the West is not their friend but the traitor and that will , I expect, be revealed in near future. If the West was real Serbian ally and friend then General Mihailovic wouldn’t be charged for alleged crimes and first of all Tito or communists would never be new leaders of Yugoslavia.
West, however, chooses to protect communists (already during the war and abandones true democrates and royalists) and gave their strongest support for creation of freaking post-war Yugoslavia. If nothing else, at least one life, the life of General Mihailovich could be saved had Mr Churchill made only one phone call. But that never happened and the rest is a history.
After IIWW there was Tito’s court for alleged war criminals and nowadays there is court in Hague that operates only for Serbs and its function turned into anti-Serbian policy.
We can now argue what crimes Mr Karadzic committed as we used to argue about General Mihailovic crimes. It is still all fresh and many historical facts are forged in order to demonise Serbs.
I hope after some decades we will learn that our Generals were not evil blood thirsty beasts (often compared as such) but fine personas as General Mihailovic was. All our generals in the past, and as I can see nowadays too, must pay by their heads just for higher political interests, but I afraid that this hand-over will just serve for personal political gain (of DS) for just few more years in the power.
This is a government, cheapest ever, with no vision for the future, for our personal interests, for country's interests, for our national identity. The only vision of this government is to somehow enter the EU at any costs, and totally clueless what after? Sad, indeed.
Hey out there,
Do you need a visa to visit Bulgaria, I think you do because Bulgaria is in the EU. I remember my father telling me that with the Yougoslav Passport you could go even to China if you wanted without a visa, and also remember him telling me about how a respected power Yougoslavia was, fortunately is not any more. I have to admit you and your state is in a really bad shape and do you ask yourself why is it so, or why in 2008, you can not even go to Bulgaria without a visa, well it is so because of Radovan Karadzices and Milosevices and Ratko Mladices you have there. Serbia stop selfcounting, look at the perspective, forget Kosovo’s independence (that’s a finished issue), “liberalize the visa-s”.
Look at all the Serbian enemies supporting Tadic and his deeds.
Anyone who voted Tadic should see now what a mess they made. Is Serbia so easily sold?
To the people of Serbia, all I can say is now live with your decision. You have caved in to join the club that bombed you. What will be their next demand?
If you don't have the will to protect the people who protected you then you are not to be protected yourselves. You want Russia to support you. Why should they when you don't support your own?
I think Karadžić (like Mladic) is guilty of many horrible things and if he was a real patriot, he should have knocked on the Hague's door himself and not let his country be bullied because of him.
But guilty as well are also other people of other nationalities still at large.
Last night a huge burden and weight was taken from the shoulders of Serbia and put on the shoulders of the world. Anything else, except a fair and well documented trial with testimonies from all sides and a honest desire in finding the full and unbiased truth, will disgrace and ashame not only the Hague Tribunal, but also the international justice system as we know it. An "accident" or "sudden death" of Karadžić would be the last nail in the coffin oance called justice. (though I am reticent about it)
BTW, I too think Serbia made a huge step towards EU and I really don't see any sign of joy for K-separatists.
i get sick of this 17 year story that everything will be fine, if we get together with our natural enemy eu and do what they demand (for their propaganda)!
btw. i´m neither a corporation-multi nor a farmer, so i am automatically a eu-enterin-loser , so why should i enter it? where is my benefit?
I honestly wonder when will nationalist nutcases in the Balkans and elsewhere realize that love for your country is not excuse to butcher and torture as you please? Is this really that hard a concept to grasp?
Karadzic and Mladic should have been in the Hague a long time ago. Even with the delay it is a welcome step forward for Serbia to hand one of them over. Congratulations.
To some here, these two were heroes. In my book they're cowards. If they were at peace with what they did in Bosnia, they should have voluntarily surrendered to the Hague and made their case there rather than hide like rats for 17 years.
Regarding Kosovo, neither side should read too much into the handover of Karadzic. They are two separate issues.
All I can say, is that Serbia took one further step forward to polishing its image. Kosovo should take notice and polish up its own image too...maybe starting with the curbing of Thaci government's apetite for million-euro lunch expenditures.
Albanian protests in Kosovo from the 1970's are clear examples of this.
(Nicholas Klinsman, 22 July 2008 19:08)
Nicholas,
Albanian protests of the 1970’s were not of a separatist nature.
The protests were directed to the issue of the human rights (Albanian).
The movement requested the acknowledgment of the Albanian entity in the YU.
The result was the implementation of the 1974 constitution which in some form gave Kosovo Albanians the basic human rights (political and education).
After Tito’s death the movements to annul the 1974 constitution could be felt (breeze coming from Serbia).
Thus the 1980 demonstrations (to preserve what Kosovo Albanians had earned with blood).
Kosovo Albanians knew that autonomy given in 74 would be taken away (as it did with tanks) thus the Republic status was sought.
The rest you should know.
Nicholas, a bogeyman is a fictitious character.
The people that are to blame have names and faces and everybody knows who they are.
According to this SRS official, the first such favor was the return of recalled ambassadors to EU countries, the second the arrest last night, while the third will be "recognition of Kosovo within a year".
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Serbia is in a truly sad state at the moment and it is obvious the world dictators have a hold on power and will do everything and anything to destroy the freedom Serbians deserve.
Stand firm and be patient. Our time will come once again. History repeats and Serbians have always been victorious so keep the faith!
We have been in worse situations before but the will of Serbians can outlive any occupation and dictatorship as history has shown!
I think history will show Tadic for who he really is. It will show Kostunica as the true defender of Serbian interests and Serbian integrity.
It is now very, very clear who Tadic works for. I look at CNN and see Dick Holbrooke, Christiane Amanpour, Solana, Albright....all giving interviews and smiling from ear to ear. The biggest enemies of the Serbian people (and biggest war criminals) are smiling, what does this tell you?? Wake up Serbia!!
Don't allow these puppets to send Karadzic to that political circus of a kangaroo court!
When a Serb sends another Serb to prison for defending his nation against Turks, Karadjordje must be rolling over in his grave.
PRN, why are you begging Serbia to recognise Kosovo? According to you and your like, "Kosova" is already independent so why should you care what Serbia does?
Go and enjoy your independence by all means instead of constantly repeating some nonsense about recognition.
The comments on both sides today are too extreme in outlook.
First, Serbia as some of my colleagues from Team Kosovo are saying, will not disappear. Tadic will not sell Serbia down the river, and if some think that Karadzic is/was some equivalent to Mihailovic, or some symbol of Serbian defiance, it's an incredibly introverted outlook. RS is not going to disappear, nor will it be forcibly reintegrated with Bosnia. Serbia is not going to shrink either. I really don't know where some people are getting this idea from, and if this is all SRS can come up with, it's a weak defense indeed.
As some members of Camp Kosova are saying that now Serbia needs, or will, recognize Kosovo's independence, that's even more ridiculous than the "Serbia is going to disappear" story. This government has made it clear it will fight for BG's rights over Kosovo with all diplomatic and legal means possible. I consider Karadzic's arrest a new form of strategic leverage over Kosovo - make good on outstanding commitments from the 1990s to place yourself in a better negotiating postion over Kosovo. While this may not revoke sovereignty, it will surely make many EU members more ammenable to Serbia assuming a greater role and greater responsiblity over the Serb sectors.
All of this is one big negotiated wheel and deal. We're giving DS too much ideological zeal. They're playing backroom politics with EUrocrats in order to win more support for Kosovo, and they're playing it to the EU's tune. Watch and see how and where the cards fall over the next few months.
I mean if nothing else, it can't be any worse than Kostunica's stonewalling.
And what is the reality of the modern age Nenad? To get on our knees and to accept the demands of the world dictators?
If you are the subservient type then go ahead and be their slave but I certainly have a bit more pride in me!
When my people and nation are attacked, I will certainly speak up and make my opinion heard! What do you have to offer? A few cheap assumptions about what I represent?
My biggest issue here is the fact that the Hague tribunal is a kangaroo court. The Hague is all about politics and not about justice. Karadzic did nothing worse than Izetbegovic, Thaci, or Tudjman.
There is no justice without truth.
Blero asked, "Why is that former YU nation’s wanted to separate from Serbia?"
The nationalistic and expansionist movements that have developed in the Balkans have nothing to do with Serbian govt policy. Those nationalist movements were trying to carve out land long before Slobodan Milosevic or Radovan Karadzic came to power. The WWII ustashe movement and the Albanian protests in Kosovo from the 1970's are clear examples of this.
Moreover, the Macedonian-Albanian conflict as well as the Bosnian Muslim-Croat battles are clear proof that troubles in the Balkans go far beyond blaming any Serbian boogeyman that you want to make up.
I'd say you're making some pretty cheap assumptions yourself. I have no loyalty to the Western cause, I can assure you. But tell me, please, what is it about Serbia that we all have to look forward to in the future? What special qualities will distinguish Serbs from all the other peoples of the world? Will it be the Serbs who spearhead some great enviromental movement? Will it be a Serbian politician who steers the world toward widespread and lasting peace? And what can you show me as a prior example of Serbia's extraordinary prowess in improving the world?
Nenad, with this current government Serbia offers everything. The whole country is for sale - you can buy a few political parties, whole regions of land and larges parts of the population - assuming you have the right contacts. Isn't that great!?
But why are you concerned about what Serbia can offer the world? Why is that so important when the country has no self-respect?
We are talking about a country that sits by quietly while criminals that killed its civilians walk free but then offers those that defended it to the lions - and straight afterwards?
A country that sits by quietly while an attempted land grab takes place but still continues to promote and negotiate with those very nations and people that are dissecting your heart?
That Nenad, is a country that does not respect itself and until it does it will never offer anything to the world, except maybe some cheap labour and its freedom!
Give them an inch and they'll take a mile! Defend your people and nation Nenad - be proud and respect others but never allow anyone to take your soul otherwise you'll end up in the scrap heap just like most others. I'll leave you with this piece of wisdom taken from the bible:
"Enter through the narrow gate. For wide is the gate and broad is the road that leads to destruction, and many enter through it. But small is the gate and narrow the road that leads to life, and only a few find it."
Kosovo would still have that autonomy if all they wanted was better rights. Instead they used their power to intimidate Serbs into leaving Kosovo. This policy continues today in Kosovo.
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