It is beyond doubt that the DS (ZeS) sees the EU as the holy grail for Serbia's economic and political rehabilitation. To that end, they are prepared to make deeper sacrifices to make it happen. If one takes that as one's basis for the theoretical argument that DS (ZeS) will have quicker 'success' with EU integration - then it is impossible to argue.
However, and I'm sure we've been around this bouy before, in practice (not theory or public rhetoric) entry into the EU is beyond DS's (ZeS) control on a multitude of levels: Mladic, Kosovo, Lisbon Treaty; to name just 3). Serbia will be invited to join (different to prepare to join), perhaps, at some point in the future irrespective of who governs the country when the EU feels it is in their interest. It is no less likely that this point could come when an intransigent SRS governs the country as an ameanable DS.
It is beyond doubt that the DS (ZeS) sees the EU as the holy grail for Serbia's economic and political rehabilitation. To that end, they are prepared to make deeper sacrifices to make it happen. If one takes that as one's basis for the theoretical argument that DS (ZeS) will have quicker 'success' with EU integration - then it is impossible to argue.
However, and I'm sure we've been around this bouy before, in practice (not theory or public rhetoric) entry into the EU is beyond DS's (ZeS) control on a multitude of levels: Mladic, Kosovo, Lisbon Treaty; to name just 3). Serbia will be invited to join (different to prepare to join), perhaps, at some point in the future irrespective of who governs the country when the EU feels it is in their interest. It is no less likely that this point could come when an intransigent SRS governs the country as an ameanable DS.
Lenard I'm sure that if / when Mladic, Karadzic or Hadzic are found they will also have fake passports with stamps in them.
That doesnt mean they will have been in those countries. Intelligence services have access to this kind of thing. Gotovina's whereabouts prior to Spain is a matter of speculation. It would not surprise me one bit if he was in the region a month or so before he was arrested.
Willie, its clear that the arrest of Mladic and company depends on his whereabouts as much as political will. Its also clear that without political will there is NO chance that suspected war criminals will be arrested. Thus it is entirely possible that ZES can get us in to the EU quicker than the other lot. But there are loads of other factors that we know. Mitigating that is the fact that the other lot (DSS) always drag their heels on everything. No, I'm confident that the other lot would take longer to get us into the EU. Their supporters feel (and hope for it) this too.
Now, unlike you, I don't know if Mladic is alive or dead. However, I do know that he was ill (and not ill in the way most indictees claim to be, but quite seriously ill). I do know though that a possible avenue of escape may be to produce some DNA from a dead body... Its not my job to find avenues of escape but when there is a will...
In the final analysis there are too many variable factors to be able to say with confidence that DS cannot get us in to the EU quicker than SRS. If you concede that I am right then you did overcook... right?
We can discuss legislation as well if you think that DSS / SRS would adopt quicker than ZES etc...
Sure, send Mladic and Karadjic to Hague, but only if they will get the same verdict as Naser Oric and the others of non Serbian nationality.
The problem with Hague is that the Serbian prisoners seem to die while in custody, before they can be found guilty.
So, guarantee their safety first, come to the same verdict and then we may discuss handing them over.
I'm not sure what you mean in your 2nd sentence, 1st paragraph. Who made what claim about whose ratification? So I shall refrain from responding fully.
Nevertheless, I agree on your first sentence - which suggests I am not "overcooking" as you agree no Mladic, no EU.
Para 2. It's about ability more than desire. DS can desire as much as it wants to arrest Mladic, but it has no greater ability than SRS/DSS to do so. Nett result, equal position.
Para 3. Under which PM, of any country, have the greatest number of ICTY indictees arrived at the Hague?
Ljajic says he doesn't know where Mladic et al are. What makes you think Kostunica was in any better position to deliver him?
para 4. He's not dead, I can assure you of that.
All in all, I really don't see how you can say I'm "overcooking" the argument. We agree on everything. The only thing you have added is that the DS has greater 'desire' to deliver Mladic. I don't dispute that one jot. But desire and public rhetoric is NOT what the EU wants to hear - it wants action.
bganon : Not really when Gotovina was on the run and later captured in Spain. He had stamps that he entered and stayed in Russia ,China ,quite a few of the South American and other European country's on his on his fake ID passport. He just pretended to be a tourist stay six months in a country and then move on. If he ran for the President of Croatia he would probably win. Other Croatian leadership were more than happy to curtail his popularity sale him out secretly so their stock and influence would rise.
As we spoke before, its as clear as crystal that Mladic is a condition that needs to be sorted for further EU integration. What we have seen is a claim in Serbia that the SAA would not ratified in any case. As we shall see in the next few days, that claim was false.
Alongside this you repeat your claim that DS is as likely to arrest / locate Mladic as SRS / DSS are (that is what you are saying amounts to). That is simply not true.
If he is out there and within reach then the EU process will be sped up under this government. If it was the 'other' government ruling this would not happen period.
But if he isn't out there then you are right. Kind of depends.
Lenard you are right in a way, but I'd say that Gotovina is ten times the national hero in Croatia than Mladic is in Serbia, and I'd say that up until he fled to Spain it was exactly those Croatian authorities that were hiding Gotovina, with the support of the public, which continues to this day.
"Rasim Ljajić says "no competent authorities in Serbia" know where the remaining three Hague fugitives are hiding. Who said they or you are competent or want to be."
it is just too easy, too good to resist: no COMPETENT authorities know... well, that may be true, but we're not asking them, we're just asking all of the govt. and army officials...
there is such a thing as a very, very black (meant in the traditional, not racist way) sense of humor, and in that sense, these people are expert in it.
Contrary to what may have been said in public, the Croatian authorities did NOT assist ICTY as was/is their obligation. They knew exactly where Gotovina was for a LONG time - but refused to act or pass on that information.
Another agency tracked Gotovina down in Spain without the help of the official Croatian authorities.
The ZeS lead government has been up and running for just a few days and the lies and deceit of the election campaign are already beginning to unfold.
There will be no SAA or entry into the EU without Mladic's apprearance at the Hague. Skupstina can ratify the SAA and discuss it as much as it likes, but it only becomes a valid document when ALL EU states ratify it. No Mladic - no ratification by some EU member states.
Despite what the DS says, they cannot get Serbia into the European Soviet Union any quicker than SRS. Anybody who thinks differently has been fooled by DS propaganda!
Rasim Ljajić says "no competent authorities in Serbia" know where the remaining three Hague fugitives are hiding. Who said they or you are competent or want to be. If the Croatians can track their hiding General Gotovina to Spain on the Canary islands I don't see why Serb authorities cant.
Rasim Ljajić says "no competent authorities in Serbia" know where the remaining three Hague fugitives are hiding. Who said they or you are competent or want to be. If the Croatians can track their hiding General Gotovina to Spain on the Canary islands I don't see why Serb authorities cant.
The ZeS lead government has been up and running for just a few days and the lies and deceit of the election campaign are already beginning to unfold.
There will be no SAA or entry into the EU without Mladic's apprearance at the Hague. Skupstina can ratify the SAA and discuss it as much as it likes, but it only becomes a valid document when ALL EU states ratify it. No Mladic - no ratification by some EU member states.
Despite what the DS says, they cannot get Serbia into the European Soviet Union any quicker than SRS. Anybody who thinks differently has been fooled by DS propaganda!
Contrary to what may have been said in public, the Croatian authorities did NOT assist ICTY as was/is their obligation. They knew exactly where Gotovina was for a LONG time - but refused to act or pass on that information.
Another agency tracked Gotovina down in Spain without the help of the official Croatian authorities.
As we spoke before, its as clear as crystal that Mladic is a condition that needs to be sorted for further EU integration. What we have seen is a claim in Serbia that the SAA would not ratified in any case. As we shall see in the next few days, that claim was false.
Alongside this you repeat your claim that DS is as likely to arrest / locate Mladic as SRS / DSS are (that is what you are saying amounts to). That is simply not true.
If he is out there and within reach then the EU process will be sped up under this government. If it was the 'other' government ruling this would not happen period.
But if he isn't out there then you are right. Kind of depends.
Lenard you are right in a way, but I'd say that Gotovina is ten times the national hero in Croatia than Mladic is in Serbia, and I'd say that up until he fled to Spain it was exactly those Croatian authorities that were hiding Gotovina, with the support of the public, which continues to this day.
"Rasim Ljajić says "no competent authorities in Serbia" know where the remaining three Hague fugitives are hiding. Who said they or you are competent or want to be."
it is just too easy, too good to resist: no COMPETENT authorities know... well, that may be true, but we're not asking them, we're just asking all of the govt. and army officials...
there is such a thing as a very, very black (meant in the traditional, not racist way) sense of humor, and in that sense, these people are expert in it.
bganon : Not really when Gotovina was on the run and later captured in Spain. He had stamps that he entered and stayed in Russia ,China ,quite a few of the South American and other European country's on his on his fake ID passport. He just pretended to be a tourist stay six months in a country and then move on. If he ran for the President of Croatia he would probably win. Other Croatian leadership were more than happy to curtail his popularity sale him out secretly so their stock and influence would rise.
I'm not sure what you mean in your 2nd sentence, 1st paragraph. Who made what claim about whose ratification? So I shall refrain from responding fully.
Nevertheless, I agree on your first sentence - which suggests I am not "overcooking" as you agree no Mladic, no EU.
Para 2. It's about ability more than desire. DS can desire as much as it wants to arrest Mladic, but it has no greater ability than SRS/DSS to do so. Nett result, equal position.
Para 3. Under which PM, of any country, have the greatest number of ICTY indictees arrived at the Hague?
Ljajic says he doesn't know where Mladic et al are. What makes you think Kostunica was in any better position to deliver him?
para 4. He's not dead, I can assure you of that.
All in all, I really don't see how you can say I'm "overcooking" the argument. We agree on everything. The only thing you have added is that the DS has greater 'desire' to deliver Mladic. I don't dispute that one jot. But desire and public rhetoric is NOT what the EU wants to hear - it wants action.
Sure, send Mladic and Karadjic to Hague, but only if they will get the same verdict as Naser Oric and the others of non Serbian nationality.
The problem with Hague is that the Serbian prisoners seem to die while in custody, before they can be found guilty.
So, guarantee their safety first, come to the same verdict and then we may discuss handing them over.
Lenard I'm sure that if / when Mladic, Karadzic or Hadzic are found they will also have fake passports with stamps in them.
That doesnt mean they will have been in those countries. Intelligence services have access to this kind of thing. Gotovina's whereabouts prior to Spain is a matter of speculation. It would not surprise me one bit if he was in the region a month or so before he was arrested.
Willie, its clear that the arrest of Mladic and company depends on his whereabouts as much as political will. Its also clear that without political will there is NO chance that suspected war criminals will be arrested. Thus it is entirely possible that ZES can get us in to the EU quicker than the other lot. But there are loads of other factors that we know. Mitigating that is the fact that the other lot (DSS) always drag their heels on everything. No, I'm confident that the other lot would take longer to get us into the EU. Their supporters feel (and hope for it) this too.
Now, unlike you, I don't know if Mladic is alive or dead. However, I do know that he was ill (and not ill in the way most indictees claim to be, but quite seriously ill). I do know though that a possible avenue of escape may be to produce some DNA from a dead body... Its not my job to find avenues of escape but when there is a will...
In the final analysis there are too many variable factors to be able to say with confidence that DS cannot get us in to the EU quicker than SRS. If you concede that I am right then you did overcook... right?
We can discuss legislation as well if you think that DSS / SRS would adopt quicker than ZES etc...
It is beyond doubt that the DS (ZeS) sees the EU as the holy grail for Serbia's economic and political rehabilitation. To that end, they are prepared to make deeper sacrifices to make it happen. If one takes that as one's basis for the theoretical argument that DS (ZeS) will have quicker 'success' with EU integration - then it is impossible to argue.
However, and I'm sure we've been around this bouy before, in practice (not theory or public rhetoric) entry into the EU is beyond DS's (ZeS) control on a multitude of levels: Mladic, Kosovo, Lisbon Treaty; to name just 3). Serbia will be invited to join (different to prepare to join), perhaps, at some point in the future irrespective of who governs the country when the EU feels it is in their interest. It is no less likely that this point could come when an intransigent SRS governs the country as an ameanable DS.
It is beyond doubt that the DS (ZeS) sees the EU as the holy grail for Serbia's economic and political rehabilitation. To that end, they are prepared to make deeper sacrifices to make it happen. If one takes that as one's basis for the theoretical argument that DS (ZeS) will have quicker 'success' with EU integration - then it is impossible to argue.
However, and I'm sure we've been around this bouy before, in practice (not theory or public rhetoric) entry into the EU is beyond DS's (ZeS) control on a multitude of levels: Mladic, Kosovo, Lisbon Treaty; to name just 3). Serbia will be invited to join (different to prepare to join), perhaps, at some point in the future irrespective of who governs the country when the EU feels it is in their interest. It is no less likely that this point could come when an intransigent SRS governs the country as an ameanable DS.
As we spoke before, its as clear as crystal that Mladic is a condition that needs to be sorted for further EU integration. What we have seen is a claim in Serbia that the SAA would not ratified in any case. As we shall see in the next few days, that claim was false.
Alongside this you repeat your claim that DS is as likely to arrest / locate Mladic as SRS / DSS are (that is what you are saying amounts to). That is simply not true.
If he is out there and within reach then the EU process will be sped up under this government. If it was the 'other' government ruling this would not happen period.
But if he isn't out there then you are right. Kind of depends.
Lenard you are right in a way, but I'd say that Gotovina is ten times the national hero in Croatia than Mladic is in Serbia, and I'd say that up until he fled to Spain it was exactly those Croatian authorities that were hiding Gotovina, with the support of the public, which continues to this day.
Contrary to what may have been said in public, the Croatian authorities did NOT assist ICTY as was/is their obligation. They knew exactly where Gotovina was for a LONG time - but refused to act or pass on that information.
Another agency tracked Gotovina down in Spain without the help of the official Croatian authorities.
"Rasim Ljajić says "no competent authorities in Serbia" know where the remaining three Hague fugitives are hiding. Who said they or you are competent or want to be."
it is just too easy, too good to resist: no COMPETENT authorities know... well, that may be true, but we're not asking them, we're just asking all of the govt. and army officials...
there is such a thing as a very, very black (meant in the traditional, not racist way) sense of humor, and in that sense, these people are expert in it.
Rasim Ljajić says "no competent authorities in Serbia" know where the remaining three Hague fugitives are hiding. Who said they or you are competent or want to be. If the Croatians can track their hiding General Gotovina to Spain on the Canary islands I don't see why Serb authorities cant.
The ZeS lead government has been up and running for just a few days and the lies and deceit of the election campaign are already beginning to unfold.
There will be no SAA or entry into the EU without Mladic's apprearance at the Hague. Skupstina can ratify the SAA and discuss it as much as it likes, but it only becomes a valid document when ALL EU states ratify it. No Mladic - no ratification by some EU member states.
Despite what the DS says, they cannot get Serbia into the European Soviet Union any quicker than SRS. Anybody who thinks differently has been fooled by DS propaganda!
bganon : Not really when Gotovina was on the run and later captured in Spain. He had stamps that he entered and stayed in Russia ,China ,quite a few of the South American and other European country's on his on his fake ID passport. He just pretended to be a tourist stay six months in a country and then move on. If he ran for the President of Croatia he would probably win. Other Croatian leadership were more than happy to curtail his popularity sale him out secretly so their stock and influence would rise.
I'm not sure what you mean in your 2nd sentence, 1st paragraph. Who made what claim about whose ratification? So I shall refrain from responding fully.
Nevertheless, I agree on your first sentence - which suggests I am not "overcooking" as you agree no Mladic, no EU.
Para 2. It's about ability more than desire. DS can desire as much as it wants to arrest Mladic, but it has no greater ability than SRS/DSS to do so. Nett result, equal position.
Para 3. Under which PM, of any country, have the greatest number of ICTY indictees arrived at the Hague?
Ljajic says he doesn't know where Mladic et al are. What makes you think Kostunica was in any better position to deliver him?
para 4. He's not dead, I can assure you of that.
All in all, I really don't see how you can say I'm "overcooking" the argument. We agree on everything. The only thing you have added is that the DS has greater 'desire' to deliver Mladic. I don't dispute that one jot. But desire and public rhetoric is NOT what the EU wants to hear - it wants action.
Sure, send Mladic and Karadjic to Hague, but only if they will get the same verdict as Naser Oric and the others of non Serbian nationality.
The problem with Hague is that the Serbian prisoners seem to die while in custody, before they can be found guilty.
So, guarantee their safety first, come to the same verdict and then we may discuss handing them over.
Lenard I'm sure that if / when Mladic, Karadzic or Hadzic are found they will also have fake passports with stamps in them.
That doesnt mean they will have been in those countries. Intelligence services have access to this kind of thing. Gotovina's whereabouts prior to Spain is a matter of speculation. It would not surprise me one bit if he was in the region a month or so before he was arrested.
Willie, its clear that the arrest of Mladic and company depends on his whereabouts as much as political will. Its also clear that without political will there is NO chance that suspected war criminals will be arrested. Thus it is entirely possible that ZES can get us in to the EU quicker than the other lot. But there are loads of other factors that we know. Mitigating that is the fact that the other lot (DSS) always drag their heels on everything. No, I'm confident that the other lot would take longer to get us into the EU. Their supporters feel (and hope for it) this too.
Now, unlike you, I don't know if Mladic is alive or dead. However, I do know that he was ill (and not ill in the way most indictees claim to be, but quite seriously ill). I do know though that a possible avenue of escape may be to produce some DNA from a dead body... Its not my job to find avenues of escape but when there is a will...
In the final analysis there are too many variable factors to be able to say with confidence that DS cannot get us in to the EU quicker than SRS. If you concede that I am right then you did overcook... right?
We can discuss legislation as well if you think that DSS / SRS would adopt quicker than ZES etc...
It is beyond doubt that the DS (ZeS) sees the EU as the holy grail for Serbia's economic and political rehabilitation. To that end, they are prepared to make deeper sacrifices to make it happen. If one takes that as one's basis for the theoretical argument that DS (ZeS) will have quicker 'success' with EU integration - then it is impossible to argue.
However, and I'm sure we've been around this bouy before, in practice (not theory or public rhetoric) entry into the EU is beyond DS's (ZeS) control on a multitude of levels: Mladic, Kosovo, Lisbon Treaty; to name just 3). Serbia will be invited to join (different to prepare to join), perhaps, at some point in the future irrespective of who governs the country when the EU feels it is in their interest. It is no less likely that this point could come when an intransigent SRS governs the country as an ameanable DS.
It is beyond doubt that the DS (ZeS) sees the EU as the holy grail for Serbia's economic and political rehabilitation. To that end, they are prepared to make deeper sacrifices to make it happen. If one takes that as one's basis for the theoretical argument that DS (ZeS) will have quicker 'success' with EU integration - then it is impossible to argue.
However, and I'm sure we've been around this bouy before, in practice (not theory or public rhetoric) entry into the EU is beyond DS's (ZeS) control on a multitude of levels: Mladic, Kosovo, Lisbon Treaty; to name just 3). Serbia will be invited to join (different to prepare to join), perhaps, at some point in the future irrespective of who governs the country when the EU feels it is in their interest. It is no less likely that this point could come when an intransigent SRS governs the country as an ameanable DS.
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