Kremlin: Kosovo independence subverts intl. law

PRN - And I am really surprised at how so-called democratic nations attack other non-threatening nations without any respect of the international law which is in place to protect us all.

And to dress up such attacks as humanitarian endeavours while dehumanising your victims as collateral damage is absolutely disgraceful.

Some person in a suit decides which innocent civilian in which country at any given time is worth less than another civilian who is in a 'chosen' country.

And does any right thinking person really believe that so much money and military might (sanctioned without due democratic process) would be spent on forcing 'democracy' on another state, or for 'humanitarian' purposes?

There is always a hidden agenda. It is always about money and power, using the less fortunate as pawns.

You're right PRN, the world is full of ironies.

It actually embarrasses me to see how people like you are worshipful of any nation. Why would you trust your lives in the hands of people that have shown time and time again that they care for nothing but themselves.

PRN - "Hypocracy at its BEST". I think that line best describes the USA and some countries in Europe who invaded a sovereign country, i.e. Iraq, to take it's oil and invaded Afghanistan to ensure they could build a pipeline over it. Both countries invaded for the "war on terror". HAHAHAHAH, don't make me laugh.

The USA's idea of democracy is forcing their ideas on people down the barrel of a gun, and if that doesn't work, invade them.

But then again, Albanians are no strangers to war crimes. Besides Kosovo they were happy to be Nazi's for a few years during WWII.

to prn:

Are you trying to say america upholds international law? Since the world wars THEY have been the instigator of every single conflict, with catasrophic results. Look at how many people were killed in Iraq alone.... over 1 million!!! I think albans are the only people on the planet who love america.

RUSSIA is continuing to be a very straight and principled nation. this is good. september is near and still 40 countries recognized kosovo. this has only one meaning> majority of countries are principled like RUSSIA and could not be BULLIED by WEST!!!

Thanks for your continued support and hopefully one day the NATO / EU OCCUPIERS will be vanquished in Kosovo province

Really Mr. President.

I am pretty suprised that from all the nations on earth Russia and Serbia respect international law and ENDEVOUR to privide FREE lessons to the rest of the world, on how International LAW should be interpreted and respected.

Often words cannot describe some things...

Hypocracy at its BEST.

Cheers

Democracies will never support Mugabe- you DO.

Democracies DO support Kosova- you do not. (Ben)

Benny, Benny Benny,you actually believe this gargage you post which is puzzeling?

Let us review support by the West in recent history with a condensed list of killers, drug dealers and today's terrorists.

1. Saddam Hussein
2. Shah of Iran
3. Afgan Mujahadeen
4. Noriega
5. Phillipine Marcos
6. Pinochett
7. South American Death Squads
8. And finally...Osama.

In addition, who's the greater threat, Western Europe or Russia? Who should be threatened by who?

1. Napoleon invaded Russia
2. WW1 Invasion of Russia
3. WW2 Invasion of Russia
4 Crusades by Western Europe
5. Iraq 1990 to Present
6. Afghanistan
7. Panama
8. Somalia
9. Grenada
10. Bosnia
11. Sudan
12. Lebanon

These are the "just" democratic action taken by the West. Who you calling Democratic and who are you calling ultimately a threat?

Did you say something PRN? Have you run out of Albanian forums to write to where comments from an international lawyer like yourself would be better understood?

I see 'PRN' has been busy with the 'self-recommendations' yet again.

An interesting insight into the basic insecurity of a person who it would seem has no real belief in the arguments he puts forward.

And if he doesn't, then why should we.


azir:
> The Russkies are the world's kingpin of international human rights violators, just ask the Chechnians.

Chechnians? They are actually referred to as 'chechens'.

Curious that you would not know this given all the similarities between chechens & K-albanians - a pervasive chechen/albanian mafia intertwined with the respective terrorist/separatist groups dominating the heroin trade in their local regions.

Small wonder then that the Russians are so determined in their support of Serbia on the issue of Kosovo.

As for chechen opinion on human rights, I can still see the images of the 'Beslan school massacre' in my mind's eye. Can you?


ben:
> Russia "defends" the international law but surely defends ROBERT MUGABE.

Best you can do 'ben'? Kind of transparent isn't it.

Opposing sanctions isn't the same as defending Mugabe. Sanctions almost never work & invariably end up hurting those who can least fend for themselves - the poor & the weak.

In the case of Zimbabwe, the only real option that I can see is to keep negotiating while increasing the pressure on those who support Mugabe (such as Mbeki) to pressure him into abdication & exile - aka 'Idi Amin'.

US inspired sanctions on various countries have been responsible for the deaths of god knows how may children. You support those too 'ben'?


Dashnori i Satam:
> Just ignore the Russians, they are a wounded bear and their oil is peaking

While world oil supply is indeed 'peaking' (if it hasn't already), Russia still has most of Siberia to explore - was a piece a couple of days ago on a new field there with a projected capacity of a billion barrels.

Still lot's of oil in Siberia bub.


miri:
> That's not true, however serves are the only people that love Russia.
A little childish of you, but quite possibly true.

And just as true as 'Ratko's statement about the number of deaths the US is most likely responsible for in Iraq - a statement you conveniently ignored.

Small wonder that the muslim league has similarily ignored the 'pseudo-state' you so espouse.


Tex Willer:
> Washington: Kosovo Independence is done issue.

Washington: Iraq - Mission Accomplished.

Russia "defends" the international law but surely defends ROBERT MUGABE.

We are having two completely different moral values dear Russia.

Democracies will never support Mugabe- you DO.

Democracies DO support Kosova- you do not.

The choice is VERY easy!

let´s get the facts straight:
the only countries who "recognize" this crippled puppet-entity are those who are allies of the US, more or less, most of them are more something like vassals. and a significant part of this group consistst of mini-republics totally dependent on the US... like some pacific islands...

well, if that´s what makes albanian hearts grow, then I must say the Albanians are not very realistic in their approach to the issue.

keep in mind: more than two thirds of those countries who ARE REALLY independent, do not follow this sinister policy of creating a greater albanian vassal in south-eastern-europe. among them, all those countries with enough own oil, coal or other resources.

so, the bottom-line is:
sooner or later international law will be excercized. there is no doubt about that.

yours is it to wait for that day, Serbia will prevail, and no NATO or US-power can prevent that.

that´s what makes me very confident, my albanian friends, time works for Serbia.
but first let the Germans and other donors build up our territory again, until we take over again.

UNE, Are you Nosradamus reincarnated?
You seem to be able to predict the future with great accuracy.

Have you forgotten than the last time America took Russia on seriously they lost. Does Vietnam ring any bells? Forget about Afghanistan, America is just continuing with what Russia started. After all, it was Russia who was fighting the Taliban in Afghanistan and now it's America.

Russia is in a much better position than they were even 10 years ago, so go on and keep predicting but this is only what you wish to happen.

If America is so mighty and can win why don't they just bypass Russia now and accept Kosovo into the UN. This would certainly shut those pesky Russians up.

Russia, of all people should talk! The Russkies are the world's kingpin of international human rights violators, just ask the Chechnians.When everyone in Russia, include the oppressed minorities, enjoy equal rights, human rights and freedom from fear of the KGB, only then can the Russians put their two cents in. Until then, the're better off to co operate with Amnesty International, Human Rights Watch, and other NGO's concerned in people's rights.

Dion, when has Russian violated the sovereignty of Belarus or Ukraine? It has peace keepers in Abkazia and South Ossetia with Georgia's agreement.

Both Zimbabwe and Burma are independent.

The reason for the Russian veto was given by its UN ambassador:

"to take the Council beyond its Charter prerogatives and beyond the maintenance of international peace and security... [was] illegitimate and dangerous."

Russia talks about international law! lets see:

-violation of Belarusan sovereignity
-violation of Georgian sovereignity
-human rights abuses in Chechnya and many other regions in Russia


Then lets not mention using a sledghammer to bring Ukraine under control.

Oh not to mention it resisting sanctions and/or calls for independence of Zimbabwe and Burma.

Yeah go russia, u advocate of international law and liberty. No matter how bad USA and west may be, at least I know i am allowed to have an opinion or critise the government without fear of being "poisoned".

Warsaw pact should be a reminder of how Russians treat "allies".

And i dont see the problem, serbia wants to head towards russia, all neighbouring countries want serbia to look towards russia. i say let them if they think they will find peace there!

Kate”And I am really surprised at how so-called democratic nations attack other non-threatening nations without any respect of the international law which is in place to protect us all”.

Kate, your words would make sense only if there were not so many Serbs war criminals indicted by Hague and Serbian courts, thsi should answer your International law thing.
You have mentioned there “democratic nations attack other non-threatening nations” what I think is not fair to any nation since not all have the same view. Also, post like this keep of people of Serbia still in dark ages, day that they really want to leave behind.
As PRN said, Russia and Serbia are not really the ones that should talk about the International law, we know their record.

Well if Russia and Serbia would like this could be Russias next Afghanistan. The wars now are fought form superpowers via secondary conflicts. So Russia will back Serbia than the rest of the West Kosova. War will begin Serbia will loose and then Vojvodina goes Macedonia goes and parts of Greece go.. I mean comme on people this is the new reality. Russians just want a new Cuba. When Kruchev was done with Cuba it did nothing for them, just left them there to dry and the same will be for Serbia. We are neighboors and should be willing to live and let live. So be friends because no one from Kremlin or Washington or Brussles will solve our problems but us. Soo kiss make up and say sorry to each other and move on

This is meant for both Albo and Serbs

some of you posters need to do your research before you say things like "russian oil is peaking" and that the usa follows international law. Where do you get this stuff from??????

Olf: "Kate, your words would make sense only if there were not so many Serbs war criminals indicted by Hague and Serbian courts, thsi should answer your International law thing."

Why? I am actually in favour of proper international law being implemented (and war criminals of whichever ethnicity facing justice), but the ICTY is a tribunal which is clearly biased and politically driven. It is not the World Court.

The real international laws lie within the treaties and charters which have been created over years of wars and suffering in Europe and beyond.

So how exactly does the number of Serbian defendants at the ICTY have any bearing at all on the legal status of Kosovo, or the right of one nation to attack another? (Unless you were speaking to someone who just had a mainstream media labotomy.)

"You have mentioned there “democratic nations attack other non-threatening nations” what I think is not fair to any nation since not all have the same view."

It's not about 'views' on whether one country is threatening another. There are all sorts of criteria in place to classify one nation as posing a danger to another UN member.

I am not trying to demean what was happening in Kosovo, but the numbers were grossly inflated to support an attack on Serbia. The reason for this was because without any viable 'threat' from Serbia, there had to be a new justification to attack a nation.

That's not to say that terrible things weren't taking place, but the numbers of dead and missing of all ethnicities (including Serbs and Roma) is under 8,000 as far as I understand.

The charge against Milosevic of genocide was dropped at the ICTY with regards to Kosovo. Yet that was the very justification for attacking Serbia.

Kremlin is upset that US is not paying them more attention and have surrounded Russia and their satellite Serbia with NATO and pro-EU countries. Just ignore the Russians, they are a wounded bear and their oil is peaking

Kremlin: Kosovo independence subverts international law.

Washington: Kosovo Independence is done issue.

michael

I agree with what you say about Western Europe being a threat historically, but don't paint Russia to be the victim either. Consider the following Russian acts:

1) Invasion of the Ukraine (under Czarina Katarina)
2) Partitions of Poland (together with Prussia and Austria)
3) Invasions of the Caucasus and Central Asia (Russian Empire and colonialism)
4) Invasion of Afghanistan (together with Britain)
5) Invasion of the Baltics (before WWII)
6) Invasion of Poland (WWII)
7) Invasion of Finland (WWII)
8) Invasion of Afghanistan (Cold War)

I won't even go into all the uprisings that were crushed, Russification, pogroms and population transfers, but I am sure you know of them.

So to conclude, indeed the West might not be democratic and might be a threat, but to suggest that Russia isn't and wasn't before is something I can't understand.

Unfortunately the Ruskies have veto power in the UN SC and they enjoy using it to frustrate US and the West. This will continue no matter whether international law is violated or not. Its all about messing with the Americans, who also seem to have a loose interpretation of international law as it suits them. There is no moral leadership in this world. Thaci and Tadic are brothers-in-arms. While we argue about international law, China is slowly taking over important resources from all over the world. They are even friends with Japanese and Taiwan now..we should learn from them!

Really Mr. President.

I am pretty suprised that from all the nations on earth Russia and Serbia respect international law and ENDEVOUR to privide FREE lessons to the rest of the world, on how International LAW should be interpreted and respected.

Often words cannot describe some things...

Hypocracy at its BEST.

Cheers

Russia, of all people should talk! The Russkies are the world's kingpin of international human rights violators, just ask the Chechnians.When everyone in Russia, include the oppressed minorities, enjoy equal rights, human rights and freedom from fear of the KGB, only then can the Russians put their two cents in. Until then, the're better off to co operate with Amnesty International, Human Rights Watch, and other NGO's concerned in people's rights.

Kremlin is upset that US is not paying them more attention and have surrounded Russia and their satellite Serbia with NATO and pro-EU countries. Just ignore the Russians, they are a wounded bear and their oil is peaking

Kremlin: Kosovo independence subverts international law.

Washington: Kosovo Independence is done issue.

Russia "defends" the international law but surely defends ROBERT MUGABE.

We are having two completely different moral values dear Russia.

Democracies will never support Mugabe- you DO.

Democracies DO support Kosova- you do not.

The choice is VERY easy!

Russia talks about international law! lets see:

-violation of Belarusan sovereignity
-violation of Georgian sovereignity
-human rights abuses in Chechnya and many other regions in Russia


Then lets not mention using a sledghammer to bring Ukraine under control.

Oh not to mention it resisting sanctions and/or calls for independence of Zimbabwe and Burma.

Yeah go russia, u advocate of international law and liberty. No matter how bad USA and west may be, at least I know i am allowed to have an opinion or critise the government without fear of being "poisoned".

Warsaw pact should be a reminder of how Russians treat "allies".

And i dont see the problem, serbia wants to head towards russia, all neighbouring countries want serbia to look towards russia. i say let them if they think they will find peace there!

Well if Russia and Serbia would like this could be Russias next Afghanistan. The wars now are fought form superpowers via secondary conflicts. So Russia will back Serbia than the rest of the West Kosova. War will begin Serbia will loose and then Vojvodina goes Macedonia goes and parts of Greece go.. I mean comme on people this is the new reality. Russians just want a new Cuba. When Kruchev was done with Cuba it did nothing for them, just left them there to dry and the same will be for Serbia. We are neighboors and should be willing to live and let live. So be friends because no one from Kremlin or Washington or Brussles will solve our problems but us. Soo kiss make up and say sorry to each other and move on

This is meant for both Albo and Serbs

Kate”And I am really surprised at how so-called democratic nations attack other non-threatening nations without any respect of the international law which is in place to protect us all”.

Kate, your words would make sense only if there were not so many Serbs war criminals indicted by Hague and Serbian courts, thsi should answer your International law thing.
You have mentioned there “democratic nations attack other non-threatening nations” what I think is not fair to any nation since not all have the same view. Also, post like this keep of people of Serbia still in dark ages, day that they really want to leave behind.
As PRN said, Russia and Serbia are not really the ones that should talk about the International law, we know their record.

Did you say something PRN? Have you run out of Albanian forums to write to where comments from an international lawyer like yourself would be better understood?

PRN - "Hypocracy at its BEST". I think that line best describes the USA and some countries in Europe who invaded a sovereign country, i.e. Iraq, to take it's oil and invaded Afghanistan to ensure they could build a pipeline over it. Both countries invaded for the "war on terror". HAHAHAHAH, don't make me laugh.

The USA's idea of democracy is forcing their ideas on people down the barrel of a gun, and if that doesn't work, invade them.

But then again, Albanians are no strangers to war crimes. Besides Kosovo they were happy to be Nazi's for a few years during WWII.

michael

I agree with what you say about Western Europe being a threat historically, but don't paint Russia to be the victim either. Consider the following Russian acts:

1) Invasion of the Ukraine (under Czarina Katarina)
2) Partitions of Poland (together with Prussia and Austria)
3) Invasions of the Caucasus and Central Asia (Russian Empire and colonialism)
4) Invasion of Afghanistan (together with Britain)
5) Invasion of the Baltics (before WWII)
6) Invasion of Poland (WWII)
7) Invasion of Finland (WWII)
8) Invasion of Afghanistan (Cold War)

I won't even go into all the uprisings that were crushed, Russification, pogroms and population transfers, but I am sure you know of them.

So to conclude, indeed the West might not be democratic and might be a threat, but to suggest that Russia isn't and wasn't before is something I can't understand.

Thanks for your continued support and hopefully one day the NATO / EU OCCUPIERS will be vanquished in Kosovo province

PRN - And I am really surprised at how so-called democratic nations attack other non-threatening nations without any respect of the international law which is in place to protect us all.

And to dress up such attacks as humanitarian endeavours while dehumanising your victims as collateral damage is absolutely disgraceful.

Some person in a suit decides which innocent civilian in which country at any given time is worth less than another civilian who is in a 'chosen' country.

And does any right thinking person really believe that so much money and military might (sanctioned without due democratic process) would be spent on forcing 'democracy' on another state, or for 'humanitarian' purposes?

There is always a hidden agenda. It is always about money and power, using the less fortunate as pawns.

You're right PRN, the world is full of ironies.

It actually embarrasses me to see how people like you are worshipful of any nation. Why would you trust your lives in the hands of people that have shown time and time again that they care for nothing but themselves.

I see 'PRN' has been busy with the 'self-recommendations' yet again.

An interesting insight into the basic insecurity of a person who it would seem has no real belief in the arguments he puts forward.

And if he doesn't, then why should we.


azir:
> The Russkies are the world's kingpin of international human rights violators, just ask the Chechnians.

Chechnians? They are actually referred to as 'chechens'.

Curious that you would not know this given all the similarities between chechens & K-albanians - a pervasive chechen/albanian mafia intertwined with the respective terrorist/separatist groups dominating the heroin trade in their local regions.

Small wonder then that the Russians are so determined in their support of Serbia on the issue of Kosovo.

As for chechen opinion on human rights, I can still see the images of the 'Beslan school massacre' in my mind's eye. Can you?


ben:
> Russia "defends" the international law but surely defends ROBERT MUGABE.

Best you can do 'ben'? Kind of transparent isn't it.

Opposing sanctions isn't the same as defending Mugabe. Sanctions almost never work & invariably end up hurting those who can least fend for themselves - the poor & the weak.

In the case of Zimbabwe, the only real option that I can see is to keep negotiating while increasing the pressure on those who support Mugabe (such as Mbeki) to pressure him into abdication & exile - aka 'Idi Amin'.

US inspired sanctions on various countries have been responsible for the deaths of god knows how may children. You support those too 'ben'?


Dashnori i Satam:
> Just ignore the Russians, they are a wounded bear and their oil is peaking

While world oil supply is indeed 'peaking' (if it hasn't already), Russia still has most of Siberia to explore - was a piece a couple of days ago on a new field there with a projected capacity of a billion barrels.

Still lot's of oil in Siberia bub.


miri:
> That's not true, however serves are the only people that love Russia.
A little childish of you, but quite possibly true.

And just as true as 'Ratko's statement about the number of deaths the US is most likely responsible for in Iraq - a statement you conveniently ignored.

Small wonder that the muslim league has similarily ignored the 'pseudo-state' you so espouse.


Tex Willer:
> Washington: Kosovo Independence is done issue.

Washington: Iraq - Mission Accomplished.

Unfortunately the Ruskies have veto power in the UN SC and they enjoy using it to frustrate US and the West. This will continue no matter whether international law is violated or not. Its all about messing with the Americans, who also seem to have a loose interpretation of international law as it suits them. There is no moral leadership in this world. Thaci and Tadic are brothers-in-arms. While we argue about international law, China is slowly taking over important resources from all over the world. They are even friends with Japanese and Taiwan now..we should learn from them!

RUSSIA is continuing to be a very straight and principled nation. this is good. september is near and still 40 countries recognized kosovo. this has only one meaning> majority of countries are principled like RUSSIA and could not be BULLIED by WEST!!!

to prn:

Are you trying to say america upholds international law? Since the world wars THEY have been the instigator of every single conflict, with catasrophic results. Look at how many people were killed in Iraq alone.... over 1 million!!! I think albans are the only people on the planet who love america.

let´s get the facts straight:
the only countries who "recognize" this crippled puppet-entity are those who are allies of the US, more or less, most of them are more something like vassals. and a significant part of this group consistst of mini-republics totally dependent on the US... like some pacific islands...

well, if that´s what makes albanian hearts grow, then I must say the Albanians are not very realistic in their approach to the issue.

keep in mind: more than two thirds of those countries who ARE REALLY independent, do not follow this sinister policy of creating a greater albanian vassal in south-eastern-europe. among them, all those countries with enough own oil, coal or other resources.

so, the bottom-line is:
sooner or later international law will be excercized. there is no doubt about that.

yours is it to wait for that day, Serbia will prevail, and no NATO or US-power can prevent that.

that´s what makes me very confident, my albanian friends, time works for Serbia.
but first let the Germans and other donors build up our territory again, until we take over again.

some of you posters need to do your research before you say things like "russian oil is peaking" and that the usa follows international law. Where do you get this stuff from??????

UNE, Are you Nosradamus reincarnated?
You seem to be able to predict the future with great accuracy.

Have you forgotten than the last time America took Russia on seriously they lost. Does Vietnam ring any bells? Forget about Afghanistan, America is just continuing with what Russia started. After all, it was Russia who was fighting the Taliban in Afghanistan and now it's America.

Russia is in a much better position than they were even 10 years ago, so go on and keep predicting but this is only what you wish to happen.

If America is so mighty and can win why don't they just bypass Russia now and accept Kosovo into the UN. This would certainly shut those pesky Russians up.

Dion, when has Russian violated the sovereignty of Belarus or Ukraine? It has peace keepers in Abkazia and South Ossetia with Georgia's agreement.

Both Zimbabwe and Burma are independent.

The reason for the Russian veto was given by its UN ambassador:

"to take the Council beyond its Charter prerogatives and beyond the maintenance of international peace and security... [was] illegitimate and dangerous."

Democracies will never support Mugabe- you DO.

Democracies DO support Kosova- you do not. (Ben)

Benny, Benny Benny,you actually believe this gargage you post which is puzzeling?

Let us review support by the West in recent history with a condensed list of killers, drug dealers and today's terrorists.

1. Saddam Hussein
2. Shah of Iran
3. Afgan Mujahadeen
4. Noriega
5. Phillipine Marcos
6. Pinochett
7. South American Death Squads
8. And finally...Osama.

In addition, who's the greater threat, Western Europe or Russia? Who should be threatened by who?

1. Napoleon invaded Russia
2. WW1 Invasion of Russia
3. WW2 Invasion of Russia
4 Crusades by Western Europe
5. Iraq 1990 to Present
6. Afghanistan
7. Panama
8. Somalia
9. Grenada
10. Bosnia
11. Sudan
12. Lebanon

These are the "just" democratic action taken by the West. Who you calling Democratic and who are you calling ultimately a threat?

Olf: "Kate, your words would make sense only if there were not so many Serbs war criminals indicted by Hague and Serbian courts, thsi should answer your International law thing."

Why? I am actually in favour of proper international law being implemented (and war criminals of whichever ethnicity facing justice), but the ICTY is a tribunal which is clearly biased and politically driven. It is not the World Court.

The real international laws lie within the treaties and charters which have been created over years of wars and suffering in Europe and beyond.

So how exactly does the number of Serbian defendants at the ICTY have any bearing at all on the legal status of Kosovo, or the right of one nation to attack another? (Unless you were speaking to someone who just had a mainstream media labotomy.)

"You have mentioned there “democratic nations attack other non-threatening nations” what I think is not fair to any nation since not all have the same view."

It's not about 'views' on whether one country is threatening another. There are all sorts of criteria in place to classify one nation as posing a danger to another UN member.

I am not trying to demean what was happening in Kosovo, but the numbers were grossly inflated to support an attack on Serbia. The reason for this was because without any viable 'threat' from Serbia, there had to be a new justification to attack a nation.

That's not to say that terrible things weren't taking place, but the numbers of dead and missing of all ethnicities (including Serbs and Roma) is under 8,000 as far as I understand.

The charge against Milosevic of genocide was dropped at the ICTY with regards to Kosovo. Yet that was the very justification for attacking Serbia.