Russia calls for Hague closure

Once again Russia is the voice of reason and our conscience. The Hague is a sham, and has proven itself to be an anti-Serb orgy of injustice by releasing Oric and Haradinaj. No Serb should have ever recognized this kangaroo court, and certainly it should be shut down immediately.
Now my question is, why is Tadic not saying this?? Why is the Russian government saying what the Serbian government should have been saying for years?? It just goes to show why Solana and the rest of the 'humanitarian bombers' are so in love with Tadic and company, and have showered bribes on the Serbian populace to get his stooges in power - because he is does what he is told by them! He does not demand justice for the crimes that have been commited against Serbs in Krajina, Serbs in Bosnia, Serbs in Serbia, and he never will because he has proven himself to be a weak minion! With stooges like these in power, Russia will be more Serbian than Serbia itself!
Once again, thank you Russia!! Without you, Serbia would be in big, big trouble.
Cheers!!

Dragane,

Another excellent post!

And you're right. . .why is the Russian Foreign Ministry more Serbian than Tadic!?!

Why is he so inclined on joining an organization (the E.U.) whose architects have done nothing but humiliate the Serb people time and time again?

Why does he want to make Serbia a whore to foreign wealth like some of our opportunistic neighbors?

In our proud history, we beat back the Turks, Nazis and Commies. . .time to tell these new (economic) colonialists to get lost too!

Whether you desire to enslave Serbs with swords and bullets or euros. . .Serbia should resist as it always has!

If however, you want us as a true partner with:

* no conditions attached and
* actual investment in industry not just exploitation of markets and resources

. . .then first, rebuild our infrastructure that you destroyed then. . .we'll talk!

Otherwise, rubles buy items as well as euros do!

to "bad gorilla":

what have the US to do with the Balkans? :)

Yes, lets not forget the 3000 Serbian victims around the Srebrenica area.

The NATO court needs to be closed as I doubt very much that Gotovina will be convicted as he was a partner in crime with NATO and the US.

Maybe nobody listens to the Russians now, but gyus don't quit please keep it up just repeat things you are saying over and over again.
Europe and USA are in one of the most negative state of mind that they've ever been in.
It is unbelievable what is going on in the 'West'. Once a moral leader of the world,
"West" is now morally at the bottom.
How else to explain that they let mass murderers home?Support to G.Bush's imbecile politics? Support wars that destroy dozens of lifes on a daily basis?Have a total disrespect for the law?
They have fallen deep.
"West" came in some way at the end of the road.

no Serbs to the Hague end of story !!!

The implications of the Oric judgement are interesting. Oric's defense never denied that crimes against Serbs were committed, what they argued was that his troops weren't responsible. I personally watched his lawyer argue that Bosniak civilians carried out the crimes and that Oric could not control them and wasn't under an obligation to do so anyway.

When The Hague handed down the judgement acquitting Oric they said, "The appeals chamber has no doubt that grave crimes were committed against Serbs". They just didn't consider Oric to be the person responsible.

Oric commanded Bosniak troops in Srebrenica. If him and his troops weren't responsible for the crimes, then the only ones left to blame are the Bosniak civilians.

In a way, this judgement justifies the Srebrenica massacre. If the Bosniak civilian population committed "grave crimes" against the Serb population, then that gives the Serbs good reason to liquidate that civilian population.

Really this is a propaganda defeat for the Bosniak side because it puts the blame for the massacre on the victims.

It would have been far better for the Bosniak side if Oric had been convicted. Then they could argue that Oric and his men may have committed crimes, but the Serbs took their revenge by massacring an innocent civilian population. The way it is now, the Bosniak civilians in Srebrenica committed crimes against the Serbs, so the Serbs massacred them. If anybody should be upset by this verdict its the Bosniaks.

"Not sure why Serbs think the West was anti-Serb in Bosnia. They only intervened once 7000 people were slaughered at once and they had enought of CNN pictures."

CNN showed a funeral of Bosnian Serb children killed by Muslims as being for Muslim children. Yet astute people recognized the footage was the same as shown on French TV with the ceremony conducted by a Serbian Orthodox priest. CNN clipped the priest out to make killed Serbs look like Muslims.

The west was very involved in the Bosnian and other wars. The west was involved in smuggling and flying weapons (including Iranian) into Bosnia during the war and delivering them with airdrops and undercover of humanitarian aid.

The U.S. had mercenaries and advisers helping the Muslims and Croats. As well they told Izetbegovic not to sign peace agreements at the beginning of the war.

The U.S. was much more involved in the Balkan wars from the very beginning than you realize.

There was also massacres of Serbs around Sarajevo - the Bradina massacre where thousands of Serbs were killed and rounded up into concentration camps. Even the UN reports noted the Serbs were kept in tunnels by the Muslims.

Then there is the ethnic cleansing of the Serb population on Muslim and Croat dominated territory and cities. The Serb population plunged there in 1992 and 1993.

The Muslims were involved in setting up massacres for the cameras and had their only two professional camera crews perfectly positioned at the scene just before some of them occurred.

UN staff on the ground have testified of the Muslims provoking and initiated much of the mortar fire and sniper attacks.

Dragan's comment is 'right on the money'(B92 censor must have been caught napping).
Indeed this proves again that Russia is the only hope for the Serbs.
What a shame that our own government is so abjectly toadying to the declared enemies of our people, that it doesn't dare to speak up for it.
So, the Russisn government speaks for the defenseless Serbia.
Could we possibly sink further down than this?

Close it down ! it's a bitter dissappointment to Serbs, Bosniaks and all the victims of the former Jugoslavia. I fail to understand what it's aims are they're certainly nothing to do with justice or reconcilliation.

“That ruling is yet more proof of the absence of impartiality...BLA, BLA...and a substitute for justice in carrying out political orders,“ the statement continues.

---------------------------------

Had this guy not been talking about the Balkans, I could have sworn he was discussing the Russian "justice" system...

In any case, had it not been for Russia's size and its nukes, many Russians would have ended up in the Hague for systematic atrocities committed against Chechnyan civilians so I can see this country's discomfort with anything that might hold human rights' violators to account.

In addition, a country that contributed nothing to the peace, peacekeeping, and the post-war reconstruction process in the Balkans has no moral right whatsoever to criticize anything Balkans' related.

Hague is probably very imperfect, because unlike the average country court, it relies on the willingness of the concerned countries to cooperate, the willingness of witnesses to often testify against "their own.", and lastly and most importantly, it has to sort out fact from fiction in a time of war with no clear chains of command (guerrilla warfare).

Just because some may not like the outcomes of the trial however, it does not mean Hague is biased. That simple.

Getting back to Russia, well, its objections regarding the Hague (or anything that deals with law) mean less than nothing to me. In fact, they should be printed on toilet papers across the Western world. I'd be the first to buy some.

Russia is not doing any favour to Serbian nation by asking to close the Hague tribunal. This will leave ordinary Serb to deal with criminals in day to day life. Having in mind the number of crimes committed by Milosevic and other paramilitary forces than I think that ordinary European will be left with a lot to deal with.
Thus, I think that Hague should stay and deal with the war criminals

An absolute disgusting illegal disgrace.
This illegal factory in the Hague needs to be closed down immediately.
This is provocation not only for Serbs but for the Justice system, it should not be tolerated.
Oric is as guilty as the justice system that freed him.

Not sure why Serbs think the West was anti-Serb in Bosnia. They only intervened once 7000 people were slaughered at once and they had enought of CNN pictures. The Hague court cases rely on evidence and there has been a number of case when guilty parties have got away with crimes. Apart from Oric there was also the genocide case against Serbia.

But... what Russia has to do with what happened in Bosnian War?

Go to any country in the world and the criminal element will tell you the court system is corrupt and unjust.
Food for thought

Ida you are right in saying that Serbian funerals were portrayed as Muslim funerals.
I have seen the same thing on the news in Australia.
I saw a funeral which the reporter was trying to pass off as a Muslim funeral, but the people were carrying crosses and the writing on the crosses was in Cyrilic.

I immediately phoned the producer of that channel's news and asked him if he thought that Muslims had crosses. He said he wasn't sure so I informed him that they do not and the funeral they just showed on TV was indeed a Serbian funeral.

After that I asked him where they get their footage and news from and he told me that it was from CNN and BBC.
Now this proves that this is a deliberate attempt to not only show legitimate news but also doctor the material to make the Serbs look bad and the others only as victims.
So all these so called attrocities that were commited by the Serbs may be the attrocities commited by the Muslims and Croats. How do we know if we are looking at a dead Muslim, Croat or someone else?

The propagada against the Serbs was intense.

"Most ppl are not aware that majority of weapons on bosnian and croatia side during the war were supplied by RUSSIANS!"
(TLC, 11 July 2008 03:34)
This is a typical propaganda rubbish circulated to defend the Gerrman suppy of Russian weapons, from East Germany, to the Muslims and Croatians.

the best way Serbia can get world to see what happened to serbs is to hand over everyone accused of crimes. then focus will no longer be on serbia.

However serbia as an aggressor in the wars will have to face consequences of that loss and until it sorts out its own war criminals will have to live with the fact they are seen as aggressors.

Serbs want equality in number of people prosecuted but thats never going to be possible because at the end of the day, not a signle bullet was fired across into serbia, whilst many serb generals, nationals have been active in bosnia and croatia. This is UN law remember, no country is allowed to go into another UN country and claim it as theirs remember? or is that arguement only valid sometimes depending on whats favourable. I guess russian involvement in tearing up georgia and cleansing georgians is "voice of reason" also.

Russia being a voice of reason? depends who you ask. However vast majority do not see it as so, in particular in balkans. Is oric's acquittal any different to serbia excusing Karadzic and Mladic? or russia harbouring various generals etc who have an arrest warrant against them? not really. however anyone who reads transcripts off UN website of the trials will know that judges are not biased. Similar view is held by Croats and Bosnians where they think Hague as biased against their own nationals. I guess it means that it truly is unbiased however noone will be sent to jail on rumours. there needs to be proof. russia probabkly doesnt think thats the way to go, but it may have somehting to do with its non existant and corrupt justice system. and yet it preaches to the world about justice. ironic.

Most ppl are not aware that majority of weapons on bosnian and croatia side during the war were supplied by RUSSIANS!

This russian govt. wouldn't know true justice or human rights if it bit them on the touchas. give me a break! all war criminals to the Hague, esp. those 2 that are still hidden and protected (mladic and kardzic.) i promise that in ONE WEEK, maximum, they would be delivered to the hAgue, if the correct pressure were applied to the "democratic" govt. in belgrade. one week, max. Period.

roberto/frisco

But... what Russia has to do with what happened in Bosnian War?

Russia is not doing any favour to Serbian nation by asking to close the Hague tribunal. This will leave ordinary Serb to deal with criminals in day to day life. Having in mind the number of crimes committed by Milosevic and other paramilitary forces than I think that ordinary European will be left with a lot to deal with.
Thus, I think that Hague should stay and deal with the war criminals

Not sure why Serbs think the West was anti-Serb in Bosnia. They only intervened once 7000 people were slaughered at once and they had enought of CNN pictures. The Hague court cases rely on evidence and there has been a number of case when guilty parties have got away with crimes. Apart from Oric there was also the genocide case against Serbia.

“That ruling is yet more proof of the absence of impartiality...BLA, BLA...and a substitute for justice in carrying out political orders,“ the statement continues.

---------------------------------

Had this guy not been talking about the Balkans, I could have sworn he was discussing the Russian "justice" system...

In any case, had it not been for Russia's size and its nukes, many Russians would have ended up in the Hague for systematic atrocities committed against Chechnyan civilians so I can see this country's discomfort with anything that might hold human rights' violators to account.

In addition, a country that contributed nothing to the peace, peacekeeping, and the post-war reconstruction process in the Balkans has no moral right whatsoever to criticize anything Balkans' related.

Hague is probably very imperfect, because unlike the average country court, it relies on the willingness of the concerned countries to cooperate, the willingness of witnesses to often testify against "their own.", and lastly and most importantly, it has to sort out fact from fiction in a time of war with no clear chains of command (guerrilla warfare).

Just because some may not like the outcomes of the trial however, it does not mean Hague is biased. That simple.

Getting back to Russia, well, its objections regarding the Hague (or anything that deals with law) mean less than nothing to me. In fact, they should be printed on toilet papers across the Western world. I'd be the first to buy some.

Go to any country in the world and the criminal element will tell you the court system is corrupt and unjust.
Food for thought

Yes, lets not forget the 3000 Serbian victims around the Srebrenica area.

The NATO court needs to be closed as I doubt very much that Gotovina will be convicted as he was a partner in crime with NATO and the US.

to "bad gorilla":

what have the US to do with the Balkans? :)

Dragan's comment is 'right on the money'(B92 censor must have been caught napping).
Indeed this proves again that Russia is the only hope for the Serbs.
What a shame that our own government is so abjectly toadying to the declared enemies of our people, that it doesn't dare to speak up for it.
So, the Russisn government speaks for the defenseless Serbia.
Could we possibly sink further down than this?

"Not sure why Serbs think the West was anti-Serb in Bosnia. They only intervened once 7000 people were slaughered at once and they had enought of CNN pictures."

CNN showed a funeral of Bosnian Serb children killed by Muslims as being for Muslim children. Yet astute people recognized the footage was the same as shown on French TV with the ceremony conducted by a Serbian Orthodox priest. CNN clipped the priest out to make killed Serbs look like Muslims.

The west was very involved in the Bosnian and other wars. The west was involved in smuggling and flying weapons (including Iranian) into Bosnia during the war and delivering them with airdrops and undercover of humanitarian aid.

The U.S. had mercenaries and advisers helping the Muslims and Croats. As well they told Izetbegovic not to sign peace agreements at the beginning of the war.

The U.S. was much more involved in the Balkan wars from the very beginning than you realize.

There was also massacres of Serbs around Sarajevo - the Bradina massacre where thousands of Serbs were killed and rounded up into concentration camps. Even the UN reports noted the Serbs were kept in tunnels by the Muslims.

Then there is the ethnic cleansing of the Serb population on Muslim and Croat dominated territory and cities. The Serb population plunged there in 1992 and 1993.

The Muslims were involved in setting up massacres for the cameras and had their only two professional camera crews perfectly positioned at the scene just before some of them occurred.

UN staff on the ground have testified of the Muslims provoking and initiated much of the mortar fire and sniper attacks.

the best way Serbia can get world to see what happened to serbs is to hand over everyone accused of crimes. then focus will no longer be on serbia.

However serbia as an aggressor in the wars will have to face consequences of that loss and until it sorts out its own war criminals will have to live with the fact they are seen as aggressors.

Serbs want equality in number of people prosecuted but thats never going to be possible because at the end of the day, not a signle bullet was fired across into serbia, whilst many serb generals, nationals have been active in bosnia and croatia. This is UN law remember, no country is allowed to go into another UN country and claim it as theirs remember? or is that arguement only valid sometimes depending on whats favourable. I guess russian involvement in tearing up georgia and cleansing georgians is "voice of reason" also.

Russia being a voice of reason? depends who you ask. However vast majority do not see it as so, in particular in balkans. Is oric's acquittal any different to serbia excusing Karadzic and Mladic? or russia harbouring various generals etc who have an arrest warrant against them? not really. however anyone who reads transcripts off UN website of the trials will know that judges are not biased. Similar view is held by Croats and Bosnians where they think Hague as biased against their own nationals. I guess it means that it truly is unbiased however noone will be sent to jail on rumours. there needs to be proof. russia probabkly doesnt think thats the way to go, but it may have somehting to do with its non existant and corrupt justice system. and yet it preaches to the world about justice. ironic.

Most ppl are not aware that majority of weapons on bosnian and croatia side during the war were supplied by RUSSIANS!

This russian govt. wouldn't know true justice or human rights if it bit them on the touchas. give me a break! all war criminals to the Hague, esp. those 2 that are still hidden and protected (mladic and kardzic.) i promise that in ONE WEEK, maximum, they would be delivered to the hAgue, if the correct pressure were applied to the "democratic" govt. in belgrade. one week, max. Period.

roberto/frisco

Once again Russia is the voice of reason and our conscience. The Hague is a sham, and has proven itself to be an anti-Serb orgy of injustice by releasing Oric and Haradinaj. No Serb should have ever recognized this kangaroo court, and certainly it should be shut down immediately.
Now my question is, why is Tadic not saying this?? Why is the Russian government saying what the Serbian government should have been saying for years?? It just goes to show why Solana and the rest of the 'humanitarian bombers' are so in love with Tadic and company, and have showered bribes on the Serbian populace to get his stooges in power - because he is does what he is told by them! He does not demand justice for the crimes that have been commited against Serbs in Krajina, Serbs in Bosnia, Serbs in Serbia, and he never will because he has proven himself to be a weak minion! With stooges like these in power, Russia will be more Serbian than Serbia itself!
Once again, thank you Russia!! Without you, Serbia would be in big, big trouble.
Cheers!!

Dragane,

Another excellent post!

And you're right. . .why is the Russian Foreign Ministry more Serbian than Tadic!?!

Why is he so inclined on joining an organization (the E.U.) whose architects have done nothing but humiliate the Serb people time and time again?

Why does he want to make Serbia a whore to foreign wealth like some of our opportunistic neighbors?

In our proud history, we beat back the Turks, Nazis and Commies. . .time to tell these new (economic) colonialists to get lost too!

Whether you desire to enslave Serbs with swords and bullets or euros. . .Serbia should resist as it always has!

If however, you want us as a true partner with:

* no conditions attached and
* actual investment in industry not just exploitation of markets and resources

. . .then first, rebuild our infrastructure that you destroyed then. . .we'll talk!

Otherwise, rubles buy items as well as euros do!

Maybe nobody listens to the Russians now, but gyus don't quit please keep it up just repeat things you are saying over and over again.
Europe and USA are in one of the most negative state of mind that they've ever been in.
It is unbelievable what is going on in the 'West'. Once a moral leader of the world,
"West" is now morally at the bottom.
How else to explain that they let mass murderers home?Support to G.Bush's imbecile politics? Support wars that destroy dozens of lifes on a daily basis?Have a total disrespect for the law?
They have fallen deep.
"West" came in some way at the end of the road.

An absolute disgusting illegal disgrace.
This illegal factory in the Hague needs to be closed down immediately.
This is provocation not only for Serbs but for the Justice system, it should not be tolerated.
Oric is as guilty as the justice system that freed him.

Ida you are right in saying that Serbian funerals were portrayed as Muslim funerals.
I have seen the same thing on the news in Australia.
I saw a funeral which the reporter was trying to pass off as a Muslim funeral, but the people were carrying crosses and the writing on the crosses was in Cyrilic.

I immediately phoned the producer of that channel's news and asked him if he thought that Muslims had crosses. He said he wasn't sure so I informed him that they do not and the funeral they just showed on TV was indeed a Serbian funeral.

After that I asked him where they get their footage and news from and he told me that it was from CNN and BBC.
Now this proves that this is a deliberate attempt to not only show legitimate news but also doctor the material to make the Serbs look bad and the others only as victims.
So all these so called attrocities that were commited by the Serbs may be the attrocities commited by the Muslims and Croats. How do we know if we are looking at a dead Muslim, Croat or someone else?

The propagada against the Serbs was intense.

"Most ppl are not aware that majority of weapons on bosnian and croatia side during the war were supplied by RUSSIANS!"
(TLC, 11 July 2008 03:34)
This is a typical propaganda rubbish circulated to defend the Gerrman suppy of Russian weapons, from East Germany, to the Muslims and Croatians.

no Serbs to the Hague end of story !!!

Close it down ! it's a bitter dissappointment to Serbs, Bosniaks and all the victims of the former Jugoslavia. I fail to understand what it's aims are they're certainly nothing to do with justice or reconcilliation.

The implications of the Oric judgement are interesting. Oric's defense never denied that crimes against Serbs were committed, what they argued was that his troops weren't responsible. I personally watched his lawyer argue that Bosniak civilians carried out the crimes and that Oric could not control them and wasn't under an obligation to do so anyway.

When The Hague handed down the judgement acquitting Oric they said, "The appeals chamber has no doubt that grave crimes were committed against Serbs". They just didn't consider Oric to be the person responsible.

Oric commanded Bosniak troops in Srebrenica. If him and his troops weren't responsible for the crimes, then the only ones left to blame are the Bosniak civilians.

In a way, this judgement justifies the Srebrenica massacre. If the Bosniak civilian population committed "grave crimes" against the Serb population, then that gives the Serbs good reason to liquidate that civilian population.

Really this is a propaganda defeat for the Bosniak side because it puts the blame for the massacre on the victims.

It would have been far better for the Bosniak side if Oric had been convicted. Then they could argue that Oric and his men may have committed crimes, but the Serbs took their revenge by massacring an innocent civilian population. The way it is now, the Bosniak civilians in Srebrenica committed crimes against the Serbs, so the Serbs massacred them. If anybody should be upset by this verdict its the Bosniaks.