Public support for EU rising fast

Johnny says, "When Serbians become actual Europeans, then you're most welcome to join in. But that might take another generation or two."

Such a rude and ignorant comment.

Your crudeness and self-importance speaks more about you, Johnny, then it does of your negative generalization of Serbs.

If you are an example of an "actual European", as you state, then the EU is doomed to fail.

Dear Roger7, The vision of this funny Portuguese Johnny doesn't reflect the Portuguese opinion about Serbia. In fact, it is too ridiculous to make further comments, based in historical ignorance and anti-serb approach. Don't worry much about that. We Portuguese are not like him/her.

I disagree with both Lazar and Johnny. Lazar how can Europe be just western Europe that makes no sense to me. Thats like saying the U.S. is only everything west of the Mississippi River... not true.

Anyway.. to Johnny to say Serbs are not European is insane. Hell, Serbia is fighting for true European values when we are diplomatically holding on to our soil and fighting against re-drawing where borders lie. Serbs and Serbia have given much to Europe. We are responsable for the basic elements of European democracy in the Dusan Code that gave rights to so many minorities whether they be women or even peasants. Thats why I don't have any grudge against the European people because most love and support us and realize Serbia has a solid place in Europe.




Serbia is European and fights for European values.... the EU is the farthest thing from European values... and the EU lost what it really means to be European.

If the Serbs think that they will be able to apply for jobs in EU then they will be disappointed. They may travel but they will need some money earned in Serbia. The Rich of Serbia don't need any EU affiliation they have the right world passport - money...

" ... according to the latest information from the government’s EU Integration Office"

Take with statistic with a grain of salt ... this % is just propaganda from the ZES coalition. When we have the referendum for or against EU, only then will we have the true percentage.

"Supporting membership in the EU just out of interest (without true understanding of the European values and what it means to be European), counts for naught."

It seems to most of us (anti-nationalists) that the only hope for the balkans is the eu, and therefore i have to support each nation's (of the former yu) entry. but in terms of progressive european values, as opposed to the worst of the european past, there is a long, long ways to go, esp. in serbia.

just now, i was rereading comments from yesterday's postings, and read 2 postings, independent of one another, clearly calling for an end to (political) censorship of anti-nationalist (my words)opinions. in this, they echo exactly the comments that i have been making, or trying to make, for the past months.

in addition, completely independent of myself, these and other posters have called for an end to Hate Speech, which in this forum is at least 95% directed against albanians. i do not wish or need to offer more examples here; they can be found nearly every day in certain nationalist postings, and are always (seemingly) given the green light.

these are, perhaps, small examples, but they underline part of the problem here, for serbia and for the eu. after all, b92 has traditionally been seen as a progressive serbian institution, despite certain of our critical voices. and if this is operating practice for a "progressive" serbian institution, just imagine how other serbian institutions could try to affect the eu. it is a bit of a scary proposition for some of us -- we want the eu to "europeanize" serbia, and not the other way around. some food for thought for progressive and liberal europeans.

as for b-92, i can only guess that there are very basic internally conflicting opinions and attitudes. not to oversimplify, but i hope that the good guys (and gals) come out victorious.

The people of Serbia support EU membership because they realize that Serbia has no alternative but to join the EU. However, the people of Serbia should understand that the door of the EU is closed for Serbia,Bosnia,Kosovo,Albania,
Montenegro,Croatia and Macedonia. NO country from the Western Balkans can join the EU unless the LISBON TREATY comes into force.

I am not sure that support was ever less than 2/3 in the last two years. So I would think that the politicians are just trying to make themselves look good when they say that support is rising.

The EU is bad for many reasons. But propaganda easily influences the thoughts of the masses. Just like mass media can convince the american people of going into Iraq, it can also convince the serbian people of joining the EU, which is like shooting oneself in the foot.

I am serbian and agree with johnny that we are not european. What always defined european was Western europe. We have a distinct culture from them. Our place is with Russia, in the east, not the catholic-protestant colossus that has always been against us. But, times change. The greeks and some other former old orthodox groups have become westernized. I forsee the same thing happening to the Serbs, the youth especially. We are losing our identity and the only thing that can save it is a cultural revolution like in Iran. That's not likely. So I would agree with Johnny, though obviously with different reasoning.

Supporting membership in the EU just out of interest (without true understanding of the European values and what it means to be European), counts for naught. The EU already has too many member states whose population still does not grasp the whole European concept. Hopefully we shan't allow new Euro-skeptics disguised of Euro-supporters anytime soon. When Serbians become actual Europeans, then you're most welcome to join in. But that might take another generation or two.

The key phrase is:

"Citizens support Serbia’s integration because of the possibilities for education or work in EU countries, improvements to the standard of living, and the opportunity for visa-free travel."

Let's see each of these.

1) "possibilities for education or work in EU countries". This can be solved by bi-lateral agreements (education) or becoming a no-issue (if economy improves, who would want to go abroad to work?)

2) "improvements to the standard of living" ( = EU investment, access to EU-sponsored projects, etc.) Again, this can become a non-issue. With clever politics YU once became much better off than any of the "new" EU countries. It did reverse in 90-s because of the violent break-up of the YU, but can become again a reality

3) "opportunity for visa-free travel" Venezuela or Nicaragua is not in the EU, but they have visa-free travel. Why Hugo Chavez is better than Tadic escapes me, but hope from Jan. 1 2009 the visa-free travel becomes the reality. Obviously, that also becomes a death sentence for Kosovo passport (with all consequences). So maybe why that is still an open question?

All of that means, joining EU as institution has alternatives much easier and sooner to achieve. Once these become the reality, I am not sure, joining EU would make economic sense. Maybe playing a "middleman" between EU and countries unlike to join EU within next few genrations (Turkiye, Russia) is a better idea after all.

To Roberto (from Frisco?)

Not many anti-nationalists are in the pro-Albanian camp, aren't they? Just compare the diversity of opinions coming from the "pro-Serb" gang versus "pro-Alb" gang and get real. I have to admit tough, "village-bey" has terrific sense of humor. Too bad, I did not see him for a while here.

An interesting observation: most "foreign" pro-Alb cheerleaders (Joe comes in my mind) probably never set their foot on the territory of Yugoslavia and USSR so their experience is probably more from reading the local (American, etc.) news rather personal. Not sure about you.

Supporting membership in the EU just out of interest (without true understanding of the European values and what it means to be European), counts for naught. The EU already has too many member states whose population still does not grasp the whole European concept. Hopefully we shan't allow new Euro-skeptics disguised of Euro-supporters anytime soon. When Serbians become actual Europeans, then you're most welcome to join in. But that might take another generation or two.

"Supporting membership in the EU just out of interest (without true understanding of the European values and what it means to be European), counts for naught."

It seems to most of us (anti-nationalists) that the only hope for the balkans is the eu, and therefore i have to support each nation's (of the former yu) entry. but in terms of progressive european values, as opposed to the worst of the european past, there is a long, long ways to go, esp. in serbia.

just now, i was rereading comments from yesterday's postings, and read 2 postings, independent of one another, clearly calling for an end to (political) censorship of anti-nationalist (my words)opinions. in this, they echo exactly the comments that i have been making, or trying to make, for the past months.

in addition, completely independent of myself, these and other posters have called for an end to Hate Speech, which in this forum is at least 95% directed against albanians. i do not wish or need to offer more examples here; they can be found nearly every day in certain nationalist postings, and are always (seemingly) given the green light.

these are, perhaps, small examples, but they underline part of the problem here, for serbia and for the eu. after all, b92 has traditionally been seen as a progressive serbian institution, despite certain of our critical voices. and if this is operating practice for a "progressive" serbian institution, just imagine how other serbian institutions could try to affect the eu. it is a bit of a scary proposition for some of us -- we want the eu to "europeanize" serbia, and not the other way around. some food for thought for progressive and liberal europeans.

as for b-92, i can only guess that there are very basic internally conflicting opinions and attitudes. not to oversimplify, but i hope that the good guys (and gals) come out victorious.

The people of Serbia support EU membership because they realize that Serbia has no alternative but to join the EU. However, the people of Serbia should understand that the door of the EU is closed for Serbia,Bosnia,Kosovo,Albania,
Montenegro,Croatia and Macedonia. NO country from the Western Balkans can join the EU unless the LISBON TREATY comes into force.

If the Serbs think that they will be able to apply for jobs in EU then they will be disappointed. They may travel but they will need some money earned in Serbia. The Rich of Serbia don't need any EU affiliation they have the right world passport - money...

Johnny says, "When Serbians become actual Europeans, then you're most welcome to join in. But that might take another generation or two."

Such a rude and ignorant comment.

Your crudeness and self-importance speaks more about you, Johnny, then it does of your negative generalization of Serbs.

If you are an example of an "actual European", as you state, then the EU is doomed to fail.

Dear Roger7, The vision of this funny Portuguese Johnny doesn't reflect the Portuguese opinion about Serbia. In fact, it is too ridiculous to make further comments, based in historical ignorance and anti-serb approach. Don't worry much about that. We Portuguese are not like him/her.

I am not sure that support was ever less than 2/3 in the last two years. So I would think that the politicians are just trying to make themselves look good when they say that support is rising.

The EU is bad for many reasons. But propaganda easily influences the thoughts of the masses. Just like mass media can convince the american people of going into Iraq, it can also convince the serbian people of joining the EU, which is like shooting oneself in the foot.

I am serbian and agree with johnny that we are not european. What always defined european was Western europe. We have a distinct culture from them. Our place is with Russia, in the east, not the catholic-protestant colossus that has always been against us. But, times change. The greeks and some other former old orthodox groups have become westernized. I forsee the same thing happening to the Serbs, the youth especially. We are losing our identity and the only thing that can save it is a cultural revolution like in Iran. That's not likely. So I would agree with Johnny, though obviously with different reasoning.

I disagree with both Lazar and Johnny. Lazar how can Europe be just western Europe that makes no sense to me. Thats like saying the U.S. is only everything west of the Mississippi River... not true.

Anyway.. to Johnny to say Serbs are not European is insane. Hell, Serbia is fighting for true European values when we are diplomatically holding on to our soil and fighting against re-drawing where borders lie. Serbs and Serbia have given much to Europe. We are responsable for the basic elements of European democracy in the Dusan Code that gave rights to so many minorities whether they be women or even peasants. Thats why I don't have any grudge against the European people because most love and support us and realize Serbia has a solid place in Europe.




Serbia is European and fights for European values.... the EU is the farthest thing from European values... and the EU lost what it really means to be European.

" ... according to the latest information from the government’s EU Integration Office"

Take with statistic with a grain of salt ... this % is just propaganda from the ZES coalition. When we have the referendum for or against EU, only then will we have the true percentage.

The key phrase is:

"Citizens support Serbia’s integration because of the possibilities for education or work in EU countries, improvements to the standard of living, and the opportunity for visa-free travel."

Let's see each of these.

1) "possibilities for education or work in EU countries". This can be solved by bi-lateral agreements (education) or becoming a no-issue (if economy improves, who would want to go abroad to work?)

2) "improvements to the standard of living" ( = EU investment, access to EU-sponsored projects, etc.) Again, this can become a non-issue. With clever politics YU once became much better off than any of the "new" EU countries. It did reverse in 90-s because of the violent break-up of the YU, but can become again a reality

3) "opportunity for visa-free travel" Venezuela or Nicaragua is not in the EU, but they have visa-free travel. Why Hugo Chavez is better than Tadic escapes me, but hope from Jan. 1 2009 the visa-free travel becomes the reality. Obviously, that also becomes a death sentence for Kosovo passport (with all consequences). So maybe why that is still an open question?

All of that means, joining EU as institution has alternatives much easier and sooner to achieve. Once these become the reality, I am not sure, joining EU would make economic sense. Maybe playing a "middleman" between EU and countries unlike to join EU within next few genrations (Turkiye, Russia) is a better idea after all.

To Roberto (from Frisco?)

Not many anti-nationalists are in the pro-Albanian camp, aren't they? Just compare the diversity of opinions coming from the "pro-Serb" gang versus "pro-Alb" gang and get real. I have to admit tough, "village-bey" has terrific sense of humor. Too bad, I did not see him for a while here.

An interesting observation: most "foreign" pro-Alb cheerleaders (Joe comes in my mind) probably never set their foot on the territory of Yugoslavia and USSR so their experience is probably more from reading the local (American, etc.) news rather personal. Not sure about you.